Author Topic: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online (Read 106672 times)

JoanP · « **Reply #400 on:** August 17, 2009, 12:28:12 PM »

The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. everyone is welcome to join in.

People of the Book - by Geraldine Brooks

You'll fall in love with Hanna Heath, Geraldine Brooks' edgy Aussie rare book expert with an attitude, a loner with a real passion for her work. How could she refuse this opportunity of a lifetime, the conservation of the beautifully illustrated Sarajevo Haggadah, the mysterious Hebrew manuscript, created in Spain in the 14th century?

The invitation will bring Hanna into war-torn Bosnia in the spring of 1996 and then, into the world of fine art forgers and international fanatics. Her intuitive investigation of the manuscript will put her in a time capsule to medieval Spain and then back to Northern Australia again with a number of stops along the way. This is based on the travels of an actual manuscript, which has surfaced over the centuries since its creation in Spain.

Discussion Schedule:

July 15-19 ~ Hanna, 1996; Insect's Wing;
   Sarajevo, 1940
July 20-24 ~ Hanna, Vienna, 1996; Feathers and a Rose;
Hanna, Vienna, Spring '96
July 25-July 31 ~ ~ Wine Stains, Venice 1609;
   Hanna, Boston, 1996
August 1 - August 5 ~ Saltwater, Tarragona, 1492;
   Hanna, London, Spring, 1996
August 6-August 10 ~ White Hair, Seville, 1480;
   Hanna, Sarajevo, Spring, 1996
August 11-15 Lola, Jerusalem, 2002;
   Hanna, Gunumeleng, 2002
August 16-August 20 Afterword & Conclusions

(click twice to really enlarge)

Topics for Discussion
August 16-August 20 ~ "Afterword" ~ Conclusions
(These questions come from several different sources. Please feel free to add your own.)

1. Some say the "Afterword" should have been located at the start of the book. What do you think? Why do you think the decision was made to place it at the end?

2. In what ways is the Sarajevo Haggadah symbolic of the plight of the Jewish people over the years? Would you say that this became the main theme of the book or do you see an even broader theme?

3. Did Geraldine Brooks conceive a believable history of the Sarajevo Haggadah based on the little that is known of its history? Do you think the different chapters, which told different stories, hung together well?

4. There is an amazing array of “people of the book”—both base and noble—whose lifetimes span some remarkable periods in human history. Who were your favorites?

5. Did you connect with Hanna? Did you find her relationships with her mother and Orzen believable? What did they add to the overall story?

6. Hanna's mother justifies her poor parenting through her feminist ideals. How did you see women's situation change over the years? Do you think Hanna's mothers attitude was necessary to bring about permanent change for women?

7. Do you think the suspenseful ending fit with the rest of the book? Were you surprised by what happened? If you were Hanna, would you have forgiven Orzen?

8. What is this book? It involves secrets, but is it a mystery? A thriller?

9. When Hanna implores Ozren to solicit a second opinion on Alia’s condition, he becomes angry and tells her, “Not every story has a happy ending.” Do you believe this story had a happy ending?

10. After having read this book, can you understand why it has been tops on best seller lists throughout the world? How would you rate this book on a scale of 1-5?

Relevant Links:
Geraldine Brooks - Background information; Sarajevo Haggadah; Early Haggadah Manuscripts; Illuminated Manuscripts; Brief History of Illuminating Manuscripts; Around Sevlle Image Gallery;

Discussion Leaders: JoanP, Ann , JoanK, & Traudee

JoanK · « **Reply #401 on:** August 17, 2009, 01:50:05 PM »

Perhaps she put it afterwards because she thought some of the information would be meaningless to someone who hadn't read the book. I read it halfway through, and was glad for the information.

JoanP · « **Reply #402 on:** August 17, 2009, 05:24:37 PM »

I noticed the Introduction was placed at the end too, JoanK - but it really doesn't seem like an Introduction...too many spoilers if read first. BUT why is it called "Introduction?"

How many think the information in the "Afterword" should have been included at the start?

Bubble, you're right, that is a good question for G Brooks. How far along are you in the book?

ANNIE · « **Reply #403 on:** August 17, 2009, 08:10:10 PM »

If we all had read the afterword before finishing the book, we wouldn't have asked so many questions. And, that's no fun!
I found that I didn't think that Hanna was any different than her mother when it came to being very cold. It was as though, IMHO, that if they let anyone see their emotions(and I am not too sure they had very strong emotions) they would loose control of their own little worlds.

straudetwo · « **Reply #404 on:** August 17, 2009, 09:31:05 PM »

JoanP,

In the first paragraph of the Afterword GB tells the reader that (only) the Hebrew codex known as Sarajevo Hagaddah, and parts of its journey, is a true story while all the characters are imaginary. This belated revelation came as a disappointment to some of us. But there it is = a fait accompli.

Now, if the author believed this information to be essential for the reader, it should have been conveyed at the very beginning, up front, on a separate page. And there's the other point: the appearance of an "Introduction" to the People of the Book AFTER the Afterword. One wonders HOW the editors could not have noticed this oddness, as well as other inconsistencies (among them the wavering spelling of seige vs siege in the printed edition). Even so, all of that can be corrected. None of it should detract from the book.

Much more important IMHO is what we think of the book itself: GB's weaving together the historical journey of the codex with the contemporary story of Hanna as narrator. THAT is GB's achievement, and there is the glory.

I loved the individual episodes (most of all Venice 1609 !!!), "way stations", as I call them, of the hagaddah, told in reverse chronology, and the depiction of the people centuries ago and their environment. For me it was an imaginary feat, and I liked learning about rituals of which I would otherwise have no direct knowledge -- except indirectly e.g. from The Red Tent by Anita Diamant.

Hanna appealied to me in her role of restorer of old manuscripts with all the fascinating details involved, none of which an ordinary person would come across or hear about. Hanna was a feminist, competent in her field and loved her work. I find no fault with any of that.

But her persona was not fleshed out enough (for me). The conflict with the (dreadful) mother was apparent early, so was her own rebelliousness . Yet the precipitous coupling with Ozren, himself an ambiguous figure, was much less convincing. Their "togetherness" lasted for less than a week. It was her work that compelled Hanna to leave Sarajevo. How close emotionally could they have become in that brief period of time?? Can affection develop that soon? Never mind love ...
And when she returned just days later !!!, anxious to see him (and why not?) - just in time for THE event, the official opening of the permanent display of the long lost treasure---- THERE''s her last-minute discovery of the forgery, her frantic, futile efforts to verifiy and rectify it, and after that the devastating dismissal by Heinrich and Ozren, both pitiless in their objections, liars both.

No, I would never forgive an Ozren.

EvelynMC · « **Reply #405 on:** August 17, 2009, 11:16:43 PM »

You have made some good points, Straude and summarized the story very well. And I agree with you, I would never have forgiven Ozren either.

I liked the chapter "White Hair" the most. I admired Zarah, she was a real survivor.

All in all, I enjoyed this book. I'm sorry the discussion is ending.

Evelyn

so P bubble · « **Reply #406 on:** August 18, 2009, 03:44:35 AM »

JoanP, I only have the Israel chapter and end to read, that will be for tonight. I read quite a lot last night and Zarah haunted my dreams. What a destiny!

The name Sharansky bothered me because we have a minister, origin from Russia, by that name and I find him a very unlovable person, in opposition to the family in the book.

On the other hand, I was interested by Hannah's reaction in meeting her "real" family for personal reasons.
My adopted son has recently had access to his personal adoption file and went to visit his biological relations. It was very much like described in this story. We are a small family and there he found a whole tribe almost, very emotional and demonstrative.

I very much am in tune with Traude's remarks. This story is so vivid and compelling, no matter if the heroes are invented, the background is certainly true and real. It was a stroke of genius to tell it backward and certainly I would not have liked to know from the beginning what is fictious and what is not. It is just one unit, complete.
About where the Hagadah should be... I need to read to the end! I do feel it should remain in Jewish hands though, maybe as safety.

so P bubble · « **Reply #407 on:** August 18, 2009, 06:03:29 AM »

JoanP I sent you a mail with attachment about facsimile of the Alba Bible.

JoanP · « **Reply #408 on:** August 18, 2009, 07:41:58 AM »

Evelyn, I know, I hate to see the discussion come to an end too - there is so much history here - we have only touched on the surface.. which is understandable. We'll stay right here as long as you want to talk. Bubble hasn't even finished the book yet - so we'll definitely want to hear her reaction to the drama at the conclusion.

You are all making good points about reasons for leaving the Afterword just where it is. I admit I had a difficult time separating fact from fiction - all the way through. I tried to heed Anna's advice and surrender to the fiction, but it was difficult for me. As Ann writes,

Quote

"If we all had read the afterword before finishing the book, we wouldn't have asked so many questions. And, that's no fun!"

So true, Annie!

Are we agreed that the factual information included in the Afterword should have been included at the end of the book, and not at the beginning?

JoanP · « **Reply #409 on:** August 18, 2009, 07:52:57 AM »

Let's talk about the Sarajevo Haggadah itself - the real thing that is now in the National Museum in Sarajevo. Are we all agreed that this is where it remain?

Traudee quoted from the first paragraph of the Afterword -

Quote

"(only) the Hebrew codex known as Sarajevo Hagaddah, and parts of its journey, is a true story"

We had Geraldine Brooks fictional version of how the illustrations were created separately from the Haggadah, not by a Christian artist, but by a Muslim, a young slave girl, Zahra. Of course we know this is fiction, but the question was never addressed as to whether a Jewish artist would have created such images to accompany the Hebrew text of the Haggadah. It has been assumed that the illuminations were done by a Christian artist and added to the Hebrew text.

Bubble sent me a slide show of the Alba Bible facsimile - another illuminated manuscript of the same period. I was unable to reproduce that slide show here - maybe Bubble can - but want to share this with you. Perhaps it explains how the Jewish texts came to be illuminated...what do you think?

The Alba Bible facsimile

Quote

Maqueda, Castile 1422

A prominent Churchman, Don Luis de Guzmán, commands the renowned scholar Rabbi Moses Arragel de Guadalajara to undertake a task of major significance. He is to translate the Hebrew Bible into Castilian and compile an extensive commentary, to be accompanied by a wealth of illustrations and illuminations in a monumental manuscript. The rabbi, loyal to his ancestors and his people, was most reluctant to agree to prepare a text which he felt might conflict with Christian doctrine and thus expose Spanish Jewry to attack.

Pressure exerted by the ecclesiastical authorities eventually forced him to relent. The manuscript known today as the Alba Bible was completed in 1430. It might well have become a symbol of hope for those Jews and Christians who, prior to the tragic end of the Jewish presence in medieval Spain, sought to improve Jewish-Christian relations. Instead, their attempts failed, and the hostility fanned by the Inquisition culminated in the Expulsion of 1492. From now on the manuscript, at that time abandoned and probably even left unbound, will be able to play the role intended for it.

The Alba Bible is not merely a superb example of Spanish manuscript illumination. It is all that remains of one of the last attempts by intellectual Jews and Christians to heal the rifts that finally led to the calamity of expulsion. The facsimile was published as a tribute to and celebration of the reconciliation and renewal of understanding taking place in our own time.

so P bubble · « **Reply #410 on:** August 18, 2009, 08:05:53 AM »

In answer to "whether a Jewish artist would have created such images to accompany the Hebrew text of the Haggadah" - there is here The Alba Bible from just before the Expulsion of Jews in Spain.

Joan, it contains the text of the Hebrew presentation I forwarded to you earlier.

http://www.facsimile-editions.com/en/ab/

"The decision was itself remarkable, since Don Luis, as a high-ranking Churchman, wielded immense power in Castile. He discovered that Rabbi Moses Arragel, from the small town of Maqueda in Castile, was a person capable of such a task, and commissioned him to produce the work in return for a generous remuneration. The Rabbi had good reason to be reluctant - by exposing the Jewish view he feared he might fuel antagonism towards Jews, and himself in particular. He firmly refused, pointing out a Jewish prohibition against illustrated Bible manuscripts. .....
A full-page miniature depicting its completion shows Don Luis de Guzmán enthroned like King Solomon, with the Rabbi on his knees before him handing over the codex. Two monks, a Franciscan and a Dominican, were assigned to help the Rabbi in his work, doubtless in a supervisory role. A number of Christian artists were employed to illustrate the text. What emerged is no less than a masterpiece. Known as the Alba Bible, after its eventual owner, it is the most important manuscript to have survived from the reign of King John II."

JoanP · « **Reply #411 on:** August 18, 2009, 08:43:05 AM »

Thanks, Bubble, I was just about to post the text from your email...
There sure seems to be a strong parallel between both manuscripts - I can imagine the Sarajevo Haggadah created in the same atmosphere, under similar directives.

so P bubble · « **Reply #412 on:** August 18, 2009, 09:08:13 AM »

I was also thinking of the clasps and the embossed leather cover.

Babi · « **Reply #413 on:** August 18, 2009, 09:08:33 AM »

I loved Ms. Brooks fertile imagination...the finding of those tiny clues in
the Haggadah and the brilliant, engrossing, 'explanations' for each of them.

It's really not surprising that Hanna is like her mother in some ways, ANNIE.
We all know the influence of a mother in shaping a child, especially if there
is no other parent. But it seems to me her Mother's coldness is one reason
Hanna was so grateful for the affection of her mentor, Werner, and the open
friendliness of her Father's family.

Quote

It was a stroke of genius to tell it backward and certainly I would not have liked to know from the beginning what is fictious and what is not. It is
just one unit, complete.

I must agree with Bubble. Following each clue backward in time worked
beautifully for me, and I preferred not separating fact from fiction while
reading the story. Afterward was just fine.

From Bubble's quote re. the Alba bible, it appears that the Rabbi's real concern
was that the book might "fuel antagonism" toward the Jews. It seems he used the prohibition again illustrating a Bible as an excuse to refuse. Obviously,
though, he was persuaded to change his mind.

so P bubble · « **Reply #414 on:** August 18, 2009, 09:13:28 AM »

About the prohibition to reproduce human features - I suppose you are aware that very orthodox families do not allow to be photographed, do not have TV in their house and do not watch it of course.
There is also prohibition on illustrated newspaper.
So the prohibition is still valid in our days, in certain circles.

JoanP · « **Reply #415 on:** August 18, 2009, 09:41:02 AM »

I didn't know that, Bubble - but am not surprised. I hope you all got a chance to look at the link Bubble provided - right to the end. I'll paste up the pictures of the clasp on this facsimile of the Alba Bible...and assume that these clasps are reproductions of the original. Helps us to visualize the sort of clasps that were originally on the Sarajevo Haggadah, don't you think? Minus the roses and the butterfly. Same period and all...Thanks!

JoanP · « **Reply #416 on:** August 18, 2009, 09:43:31 AM »

Was Hanna real to you, Babi? It sounds as if you understood her - where she was coming from. It was Sarah Heath that I couldn't understand - her coldness. Sooo, I let my imagination go to flesh out what was missing and then I felt sorry for her - a lonely woman. Was she real to you? When asked about her favorite characters in the book, Geraldine Brooks wrote that she will miss hanging out with Hanna - but that her favorite characters of the book were probably the flawed ones. Which were your favorites?

so P bubble · « **Reply #417 on:** August 18, 2009, 10:12:36 AM »

Hanna is definitely very real and alive, and one can identify with the various mood she shows.Sarah is harder to identify with although believable in those situations.
In each chapter I was sorry to let the protagonists go. Zahra is probably the one who will stay in mind for a long time... unless the last chapter brings me a new surprise.

The Bible has two clasps because it is a very big and heavy volume. The Hagada is more like a pocket book and would have had only one in the middle.

I remember in the early '50s my granddad sent me from Israel an illustrated Bible (by Doré) when I was a child. It was bound in cheap brown leather imitation plastic - that was the hard time here after the creation of the State. Still, it had metal wrought corners and a strap with a metal clasp holding it closed. Nothing elaborate, more like an ornate push button, but it followed the tradition of these old books I suppose.

straudetwo · « **Reply #418 on:** August 18, 2009, 10:57:54 AM »

Bubble, thank you for that magnificent link. THERE is the eloquence Hanna referred to in
the last Sarajevo chapter, and JoanP had a question about. This demonstrates the same painstaking work. But there's so much more to see and study.
It is gratifying that the order to expel the Jews from Spain in 1492 was repealed, quite fittingly, five hundred years later.
I was in Europe in 1992 but have no recollection of this happening.

JoanP I'm not sure what you mean by "real". Of course Hanna is real to me too, I just feel her character is not as fully developed, and simply not as convincing. But that's just MHO. I'm not trying to "sway" anybody - not my style. Is it necessary for us to reach a consensus on this point?

Let me reiterate that all the historical characters are vividly drawn in absorbing detail, and I would have loved to spend more time twith them than was allotted. It was hard to tear myself away from the "Saltwater" chapter. To me, Ruti is a compelling, heroic figure. And then there's Zahra, a truly unforgettable character. Surely we can "nominate" more than one favorite character?

so P bubble · « **Reply #419 on:** August 19, 2009, 06:48:55 AM »

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/12/03/071203fa_fact_brooks

I don't know if you have seen this article in the Newyorker - relating to the chapter Lola at the end of the book.

"Servet told the writer about how Dervis rescued a young Jewish girl named Mira Papo, in April of 1942, by bringing her home and passing her off as a Muslim servant. Mira had been a member of the Young Guardians, a socialist Zionist youth movement.
After the war, Mira returned to Sarajevo and was commissioned as an officer in Tito’s Army medical corps. In 1946, she ran into Servet, who begged her to testify at Dervis’s war-crimes trial; Dervis was being charged with aiding the Fascists. But Mira never testified because her fiancé feared the Party would turn against her. She assumed that Dervis had been executed, but, in 1994, she read a newspaper article which revealed that Dervis had died an elderly man, from natural causes, in 1969. Now aged seventy-two, Mira wrote a three-page letter to the Commission for the Designation of the Righteous at Yad Vashem, Israel’s Holocaust memorial center, which testified to Dervis’s heroic actions."

Quote by Joan:"I noticed the Introduction was placed at the end too, JoanK - but it really doesn't seem like an Introduction...too many spoilers if read first. BUT why is it called "Introduction?"

I don't have any "introduction" in my book, neither at the start and nor at the end. it is a hard cover edition by Viking. What does your introduction says?

About my feelings about this book. I am still enthralled, trying to digest all the episodes and especially that big surprise at the end. The special lighting revealing the signature was a real genius touch.

I was not that surprised about the deed from Dr Heindrich. It is the way fanatical men act and they know how to prey on a moment of weakness in others such as Ozren, so for me it is quite believable.

About finding the Hagadah on a shelf among other books, with no one the wiser - again, there are many stories like that of extraordinary finds in archives at Yad ve-Shem.
They receive so many documents, so many crates of papers and memorabilia from all over, that it takes time and informed personal to check and catalog. Some of these archives for sure get forgotten in cellars or storage rooms to be discovered in awe years later.

I do like the new turn taken in Hannah's life and her new interest. It is her salvation to work at something she likes, especially after the quest with the Haggadah. After all anything would have seemed trite after such an adventure. That she finally is vindicated and gets her self confidence back is most satisfying.

Babi · « **Reply #420 on:** August 19, 2009, 09:03:34 AM »

STRAUDE, I so much appreciate your post. The story of Mira Papo and the
information about the 'many stories like that' from the archives at Yad ve-Shem tend to validate for me the 'fictional' stories we enjoyed so much from GB.

I am so impressed with Geraldine Brooks research, scholarship and strong
creative imagination...I'm now a dedicated reader of whatever she may write
next.

Frybabe · « **Reply #421 on:** August 19, 2009, 09:31:14 AM »

Thanks for the info about Mira Papo. Very interesting.

I must agree with SoP that Dr. Heindrich's actions are totally believable. As for Lola finding the Hagadah, that is also very, very believable. How many times have we read over the years about stuff stored away in museums, etc. that went unrecognized, mislabeled, and/or forgotten for many years before they are, often, accidentally found again.

JoanP · « **Reply #422 on:** August 19, 2009, 11:11:26 AM »

Babi, it sounds as if you are giving this book a high rating - perhaps the highest on a scale of 1-5. I will be interested to hear how others will rate it.
When you say that you are now a dedicated reader and look forward to what Geraldine Brooks will write next...I agree. That is a question that I sent on to Ms. Brooks, though I have a dim memory of reading that in one of her interviews - but that was a while ago, and of course, my memory what it is, I can't recall where I read it. IF we do hear back from her, and this discussion is already closed and archived, I'll post her responses in the Archived discussion AND in the SeniorLearn Library.

BUT, I'm wondering if you ever read her Pulitzer Prize winning "March." (March - the absent father of the Little Women.) Might it be something you would be interested in reading and discussing here on SeniorLearn? Shall I put it in the Suggestion Box? Here are some reviews you might be interested in:

Quote

From Publishers WeeklyStarred Review. Brooks's luminous second novel, after 2001's acclaimed Year of Wonders, imagines the Civil War experiences of Mr. March, the absent father in Louisa May Alcott's Little Women. An idealistic Concord cleric, March becomes a Union chaplain and later finds himself assigned to be a teacher on a cotton plantation that employs freed slaves, or "contraband." His narrative begins with cheerful letters home, but March gradually reveals to the reader what he does not to his family: the cruelty and racism of Northern and Southern soldiers, the violence and suffering he is powerless to prevent and his reunion with Grace, a beautiful, educated slave whom he met years earlier as a Connecticut peddler to the plantations. In between, we learn of March's earlier life: his whirlwind courtship of quick-tempered Marmee, his friendship with Emerson and Thoreau and the surprising cause of his family's genteel poverty. When a Confederate attack on the contraband farm lands March in a Washington hospital, sick with fever and guilt, the first-person narrative switches to Marmee, who describes a different version of the years past and an agonized reaction to the truth she uncovers about her husband's life. Brooks, who based the character of March on Alcott's transcendentalist father, Bronson, relies heavily on primary sources for both the Concord and wartime scenes; her characters speak with a convincing 19th-century formality, yet the narrative is always accessible. Through the shattered dreamer March, the passion and rage of Marmee and a host of achingly human minor characters, Brooks's affecting, beautifully written novel drives home the intimate horrors and ironies of the Civil War and the difficulty of living honestly with the knowledge of human suffering.

From School Library Journal
In Brooks's well-researched interpretation of Louisa May Alcott's Little Women, Mr. March also remains a shadowy figure for the girls who wait patiently for his letters. They keep a stiff upper lip, answering his stiff, evasive, flowery letters with cheering accounts of the plays they perform and the charity they provide, hiding their own civilian privations. Readers, however, are treated to the real March, based loosely upon the character of Alcott's own father. March is a clergyman influenced by Thoreau, Emerson, and especially John Brown (to whom he loses a fortune). His high-minded ideals are continually thwarted not only by the culture of the times, but by his own ineptitude as well. A staunch abolitionist, he is amazingly naive about human nature. He joins the Union army and soon becomes attached to a hospital unit. His radical politics are an embarrassment to the less ideological men, and he is appalled by their lack of abolitionist sentiments and their cruelty. When it appears that he has committed a sexual indiscretion with a nurse, a former slave and an old acquaintance, March is sent to a plantation where the recently freed slaves earn wages but continue to experience cruelty and indignities. Here his faith in himself and in his religious and political convictions are tested. Sick and discouraged, he returns to his little women, who have grown strong in his absence. March, on the other hand, has experienced the horrors of war, serious illness, guilt, regret, and utter disillusionment.-Jackie Gropman, Chantilly Regional Library, VA

so P bubble · « **Reply #423 on:** August 19, 2009, 11:21:31 AM »

Brooks' first book, Nine Parts of Desire (1994), based on her experiences among Muslim women in the Middle East, was an international bestseller, translated into 17 languages.

Foreign Correspondence (1997), which won the Nita Kibble Literary Award for women's writing, was a memoir and travel adventure about a childhood enriched by penpals from around the world, and her adult quest to find them.

These two sounds very intriguing two.
I had so many pen pals as a child, but oinly managed to find two of them as an adult.

JoanP · « **Reply #424 on:** August 19, 2009, 12:38:29 PM »

Bubble, what I like about GBrooks' books is that they take us outside of our own little circles and into the larger world of people who are in many ways different than we are. Those two books are nonfiction if I'm not mistaken.

Pen pals do the same thing, don't they? I had a pen pal when in high school who was from Aruba. I wonder what happened to her. I remember her telling me that they had no trees on Aruba. I'm not so sure that's still true...high school was a long time ago.

Quote

Is it necessary for us to reach a consensus on this point?

Oh, Traudee, no of course not - a consensus is not necessary on any point. But there do seem to be some points on which we all seem to agree...

Same thing is true about favorite characters. I find that I'm in agreement with GBrooks - it is the "flawed" characters that I tend to favor. Maybe because the flawed characters are more fleshed out. We're all flawed, aren't we? - And the more that is revealed about us, the more flaws become apparent, the more "human" we become. Father Vistorini and the Rabbi were among my favorites for this reason.

Funny, but on one level, I don't regard Hanna as one of the fictional characters - she's the narrator, she's G Brooks in a way. That must mean that I found her "real" - But for some reason, Ozren didn't come off that way - nor did Sarah Heath. They both seem to represent something, but it was difficult to get to know them or to understand Hanna's relationship with them. What do you think GBrooks was attempting to tell us through Sarah Heath's character?

JoanP · « **Reply #425 on:** August 19, 2009, 12:52:06 PM »

Quote

As for Lola finding the Hagadah, that is also very, very believable. How many times have we read over the years about stuff stored away in museums, etc. that went unrecognized, mislabeled, and/or forgotten for many years before they are, often, accidentally found again.

Frybabe, I agree, Lola's finding the Haggadah while dusting was entirely believable. What I thought was unbelievable was not the fact that she was the one to find it, as an old woman, but that it was the young girl, Lola, along with the Kamals who spirited the book out of Sarajevo before WW
II. Wasn't that a bit too much? I'll admit, there was something satisfying about it - as fiction, but it was a stretch I thought. Of course, it makes sense that others had probably seen the book on the shelf, but that Lola was able to recognize it for what it was because she had seen it 50 years before in Sarajevo.

Bubble, I was absolutely blown away the the New Yorker story on Mira Papo! Of course that has to be Lola!

Let me go to the back of my book and tell you about the Introduction...as I recall, it's a page and a half long... Here it is, word for word -
Introduction to People of the Book - located in the back of the book.

Scanning to the bottom of this page, I see this in an Interview with GBrooks:

Quote

Q. What are you working on now?

I’m just at the earliest stages of exploring an intriguing story set very close to home, on Martha’s Vineyard. It concerns people who lived on this island in 1666, one of my favorite years, and seems to have just the right mix of knowns and unknowables—a lovely incomplete scaffold to build on.

so P bubble · « **Reply #426 on:** August 19, 2009, 01:49:49 PM »

Thank you Joan for the introduction. I am glad I did not read that at the beginning! It would have spoiled discovering the book's mystery step by step.

I can tell you that this is going to be a cherished book that I will re-read again soon , leisurely and pausing often. I just love it.

JoanK · « **Reply #427 on:** August 19, 2009, 02:27:51 PM »

This was the perfect book to read in an unline group, and this discussion has highlighted some of the many reasons why our discussions are so special, aside from the high quality of the people who participate. The fact that we are online means we can bring in resources from all over the world: actually SEE pictures of the places depicted, actually follow the history briefly referred to. And we can actually study the pictures of the book as we go along, especially the picture with "our Zahra" in it. And while BUBBLE and GUMTREE contribute greatly to every discussion they're in, to have someone who can read and interpret the Haggadah and pictures for us and an Australian familiar with the rock painting and Australian art is so very special.

This book and the discussion based on it have taken us everywhere: Jewish tradition, history of widespread people and places, art, techniques of art and reconstruction, medicine, astronomy, music... it's hard to find an area of human endeavor that we haven't touched on. To encompass so much in one book is so extraordinary, I can't find words to express it.

And as usual, JoanP and my fellow DLs have done a fantastic job. I'm proud to work with them.

EvelynMC · « **Reply #428 on:** August 19, 2009, 04:00:07 PM »

JoanK,
I absolutely agree with everything you said, and said so well. This was a great discussion made so much better with all the links that were provided.

This discussion has taken me outside myself and my own very limited little world. The internet is a wonderful thing. I personally would be lost without it.

Bubble,
I also am going to keep this book to read again and just enjoy. Thanks for the info on the young Jewish girl Miro Pappo. It sure sounds as if Lola was based on her.

JoanP,
I am glad the Introduction was at the back of the book. It sounds like something that would be on a book jacket, but it goes into a lot of detail that I think is best kept until the story unfolds.

Also I think the Afterwords is in the right spot. I didn't need to know what was fiction and what was fact. As I read the book, the characters were all very real to me and I just didn't think about "is this fact or fiction".

This was a wonderful book and this was one of the best discussions I have been in.

I am forward to reading and discussing another book by Geraldine Brooks soon.

Evelyn

ANNIE · « **Reply #429 on:** August 19, 2009, 04:20:19 PM »

Did anyone suspect the professor with his seeming love and like of Hanna? I think back to when one might have suspected that the sweet man was a little ditzy. That would be when we were introduced to him and the little gal at the Historical Museum, Frau Zweig, who thought he and his garb choices were a hoot. "Velvet suits and that last century thing that he has going." And, she referred to him as "Werner" which surprised Hanna.
Just because I didn't like the Hannah character doesn't mean that I didn't like the book. I would suppose that she is the person that she is due to the poor example she had for a mother. But the cold attitude does wash through each of them.
I am not sure that she was going back to Ozren but if one wants a happy ending, the reader can choose to have one. I am hoping that she returned to continue to preserve the Sharansky Foundation's projects. Those cave paintings are real and so fascinating.
I loved the history that I learned about the Jewish sectors in each city and all those wonderful links that everyone found. We have truly made our trek a most fascinating one as we talked about the characters and the history in this book. I might try to read "March" later when I am done with Frances Perkins. I have already read many stories about "March" who is the father of the Louisa May Allcott.
I think GB is outstanding author and certainly has certainly fleshed out the history of the Sarajevo Haggadah enough to make it a real possibility.

ANNIE · « **Reply #430 on:** August 19, 2009, 09:17:42 PM »

When I read about the Alcott family, I remember reading that they had been involved in the Trancendental Movement and, at one time, the father, Bronson Alcott, moved the Alcott family to the Brook Farm which was their first try at a type of commune living?? I am not sure of the commune living thing. Along with the Alcotts, there was Ralph Waldo Emerson and maybe, Henry David Thoreau. Anyone need to know more?

http://www.vcu.edu/engweb/transcendentalism/ideas/brhistory.html

straudetwo · « **Reply #431 on:** August 19, 2009, 11:05:06 PM »

Adoannie
You'll enjoy March by GB. Our live group had an extended discussion of it last year.

The book is about the American Civil War and the father in Little Women by Louisa May Alcott, a father we never meet in the book because he's away fighting in the waar. GB has beautifully imagined him and the book is a gem.

Yes, transcendentalism was a philosophical, religious and literary movement in New England. Emerson and Thoreau were leading
lights.

JoanP · « **Reply #432 on:** August 20, 2009, 08:22:41 AM »

Well, okay, it sounds as if March is something to consider for a future discussion then. I'll put it in the Suggestion Box and see what happens.

Traudee asked a question last week that we might be ready to answer now -

Quote

"What is this book? It involves secrets, but is it a mystery? A thriller?"

Everywhere I look, the book is described as a mystery. But what is the mystery? Is it the Haggadah's survival over the ages, or is it the drama in the last chapter involving the spiriting of the book to Israel and then back again in Hanna's luggage to Sarajevo? Would you call the book a mystery?
Do you think the suspenseful ending fit with the rest of the book?

so P bubble · « **Reply #433 on:** August 20, 2009, 08:42:46 AM »

I would call it a quest... I do like the ending: unexpected until to the end.

Babi · « **Reply #434 on:** August 20, 2009, 09:23:12 AM »

GB did seem to spend more time 'fleshing out' the characters on the
Haggadah side of the story line. But that really was the central theme of
the book. Ozren and Sarah Heath were added to give Hanna a bit more
dimension, perhaps, but we know very little about them, really.

"March" does seem to cover a lot of territory, JOANP, and would offer a lot
of possibilities for discussion. Let me get my hands on a copy and see how
I like it. I'll get back to you when I know more.

JoanP · « **Reply #435 on:** August 20, 2009, 02:50:06 PM »

A quest...Bubble, I like that. Tell more. A quest for...? I've an idea, but would like to hear what you have in mind first.

Babi, that would be great! We need more information on March to attract readers to a discussion. Thanks!

JoanP · « **Reply #436 on:** August 20, 2009, 02:52:17 PM »

Today is a good day~ We have a response from Geraldine Brooks - she's answered all of the questions. Did I miss any? I'll post the responses here and if you would like to ask something else, she seems to be quite ammenable to answering...

Quote

She writes, " I was interested to read about your forum and happy to answer questions. See notes in CAPS below.

Yesterday a participant brought us the story of Mira Papo from the recent New Yorker magazine. Surely she is Lola? NOT EXACTLY BUT THE INSPIRATION FOR HER. Have you seen this issue? I WROTE THAT ARTICLE. THE TRUE STORY WAS SO POWERFUL I HAD TO TELL IT.
Someone posted about the life of Dona Gracia Nasi, who was clearly the real-life Dona de Serena. YES, SHE WAS THE INSPIRATION

I notice that several of the sources we consulted place the origin of the Haggadah around 1350, more that a century before you do. Is this a matter of scholarly debate? YES. THE HOPE IS THAT NOW SARAJEVO HAS RETURNED TO STABILITY AND THE BOOK IS BEING PROPERLY CURATED THERE WILL BE TIME FOR FULLER STUDY TO RESOLVE SUCH ISSUES.

Was the emir in the White hair section based on an historical figure: either the Christian Ferdinand, or an actual emir? NO, NOT REALLY. HE WAS KIND OF A MASH UP OF SEVERAL EMIRS.

Is the round earth part of the impetus for making the artist Muslim? NOT SO MUCH. IT'S JUST THAT SCHOLARS DON'T THINK THE ARTIST WAS JEWISH...SO...GIVEN THAT IT'S CONVIVENCIA, WHY NOT MUSLIM?

In discussing La Convivencia and the cycle of tolerance to intolerance , the question arose as to why the intolerance keeps returning. Any ideas?
A DEFECTIVE GENE IN HOMO SAPIENS? I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO ACCOUNT FOR IT.

Did you intend for us to notice the Kohen family who sold the Haggadah to the Museum in Sarajevo and Fr. Vistorini’s memory of his surname, Cohain are the same? Can you address the implication here? YES. IT'S UP TO THE READER, BUT THE SUGGESTION IS THAT POSSIBLY AT SOME POINT VISTORINI RETRIEVES HIS HERITAGE AND PASSES THE BOOK ON TO HIS HEIRS. BUT ONLY IF THE READER LIKES THAT IDEA.

A note from one of our music loving "nitpickers" - Mahler's "latest" work, published in 1894 did not receive its first performance until the following year in Berlin. His second came out in 1889 in Budapest. HA! THANKS FOR THAT...LOVING THE LEVEL OF DETAIL...

From a reader in MA, Boston's Dana Faber is Dana-Farber. YES THAT'S BEEN CORRECTED.

We understand that Catherine Zeta-Jones owns the movie rights to People of the Book. Does this mean she might play Hanna Heath? YES, SHE INTENDS TO.
What do you think of that? SHE'S A BIT MORE OF A BOMBSHELL, FRANKLY, THAN I IMAGINED, BUT HEY, I'LL TAKE IT.

Please let me know if there are any more questions you would like to put to Geraldine Brooks. Doesn't she sound like someone you'd like to hang out with?

winsummm · « **Reply #437 on:** August 20, 2009, 04:10:48 PM »

we agree about katherine zeta jones. she just is not hanna. too bad for the movie's sake and those of us who have adopted the people in the book. Interesting responses. thank you GB
about the art it was more fourteenth centery than fifteenth. that is the thirteen hundreds but could have been christian except for the lack of halos and religious personages. The family is not a christion family or even a muslin one to my knowledge and since Jews didn't encourage images at that time they simply used the tools at hand when needing to express with images. I like her suggestion that it had a political purpose for the artist . . . rather than a religious one.

Claire

so P bubble · « **Reply #438 on:** August 20, 2009, 04:26:27 PM »

Quest? similar to quest for the Holy Grail legends...

"The Grail plays a different role everywhere it appears, but in most versions of the legend the hero must prove himself worthy to be in its presence. In the early tales, Percival's immaturity prevents him from fulfilling his destiny when he first encounters the Grail, and he must grow spiritually and mentally before he can locate it again."
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hannah searches for the truth about the Hagadah and at the same time she gains strength of character and maturity.

JoanK · « **Reply #439 on:** August 20, 2009, 06:02:12 PM »

There are many quest books: ancient and modern: "Lord of the Rings" comes to mind.

I think it would be legitimate to call it either a "Quest" or a "mystery" (the mystery being it's past, and how each of the things found in it got there) but someone expecting either a quest book or a mystery would certainly be bemused by it. I LIKE the fact that it doesn't fit any standard catagory or plot.

Thank GB for the answers to our questions. I'm glad she likes the level of detail; so do I.

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Author Topic: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online (Read 106672 times)