Author Topic: RUN by Ann Patchett ~ June Book Club Online (Read 38597 times)

JoanP · « **Reply #40 on:** June 12, 2012, 10:28:50 AM »

The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.

Everyone is welcome

RUN by Ann Patchett

Two families come together in a traffic accident during a snowstorm. It quickly becomes clear that the families-a poor, single black mother with her 11-year-old daughter and a white, Irish Catholic, former Boston mayor with a biological son and two adopted black college-aged sons, whose much-loved wife died over 20 years ago -have a connection.
"The book explores how these kids established their sense of belonging and self based on who raised them, and whom they gravitated toward as family. It also conversely examines the notion of parenthood - what constitutes a parent? Is it simply genetics, or a history of nurturing and love? What role does race play in parenting and familial identity? There are clearly nature vs nurture issues at play here, which are interesting to trace and analyze." (Gayle Weisswasser)
And yet, in an interview, in the back of the paperback edition, Ann Patchett said that to her, the book was about politics. The book's central idea is how political responsibility plays out in the smallest and most intimate scale of family life. How did such an idea come to her?
A: "I keep reading the newspaper and looking at all of the hardships in the world and it makes me think about issues of sacrifice and social responsibility. Do we have a moral obligation to use our gifts to help people? These aren't questions that have a right and wrong answer, but I think they are ideas worth struggling with. Run is ultimately a novel about secrets, duty, responsibility, and the lengths we will go to protect our children."

*********************************************************************************

About the Author:

Ann Patchett was born in Los Angeles, California and moved to Nashville, Tennessee when she was six, where she continues to live. Patchett said she loves her home in Nashville with her doctor husband and dog. She owns and runs Parnassus Books, an independent bookstore in Nashville.

Discussion Schedule:
June 15~17Chapters 1-3
June 18~20 Chapters 4-6

Some Topics for Consideration
June 15 - 17

Chapter 1
1. Why do you think the author starts the novel with the story of the statue of Mary and who should inherit it?
2. Have you had similar experiences with family heirlooms following the death of a family member? Do you know an easy way to resolve such a situation? Could Doyle have resolved the situation himself, without the intervention of a third party?

Chapter 2
1. Do you fault Doyle for trying to instill his own values and interests in his sons? Do you think the boys' upbringing would have been much different, had Bernadette lived? Does Uncle Sullivan provide a needed balance in their lives? What do you see of the relationship between Doyle and his brother-in-law?
2. Sullivan seems to be introduced as the black sheep of the family, a lost cause. How do you see him? Why has Doyle detached himself from his first-born son? Do you see any similarities between him and the two younger boys?

Chapter 3
1. Do you think anyone, (but a mother) would jump in front of a fast-moving car to save someone else? Would you? Do you notice a subtle change in Tip after the incident, or is it just the medication?
2. Did the reader know that Tennessee was the boys' mother before Doyle, Tip and Teddy did? Did Teddy know of their relationship when he insisted they couldn't leave Kenya at the hospital, even as Doyle worried about a kidnapping charge? Do you understand Doyle's concerns?

Chapter 4
1. Was it surprising that the boys had never asked Doyle about their birth mother after Bernadette died? Was Doyle prepared to answer them if they had? Do you think he knows who she is?
2. What is Doyle's reaction to Kenya's revelation? Do you think he'll want DNA testing or does he know she's who she says she is?

Chapter 5
1. What was Doyle's relationship with Sullivan just before Bernadette died? How old was he when she died?. Do you see similarities between Sullivan and the two younger boys?
2. Is The Voyage of the Beagle an actual book - by Charles Darwin? Why did it appeal to the boys as a bedtime story? How might it be relevant here?

Chapter 6
1. Can you blame Teddy for believing Father Sullivan cured those two women and can save his mother's life? What seems to have caused Father Sullivan's loss of faith and belief in the afterlife - that his mother was waiting for him in heaven? How does he explain the the healing of these two women if not a miracle?
2 . How was Sullivan able to open up to Tennessee about why he left Boston and Doyle's lie after the accidentl? Is it possible that his father wasn't lying and that he wasn't driving the car the night Natalie died? Has Tennessee been as forthcoming in answering Sullivan's questions as he has been with her?

Contact: JoanP,

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #41 on:** June 12, 2012, 10:35:41 AM »

JOANP, I just read Patchett's remarks about Amazon. I'm not sure exactlly what she means comparing an online bookseller and a hometown bookstore. Perhaps the price? The ease of ordering online? But nothing - nothing - compares with brownsing in a bookstore; shelves and shelves of books, all kinds of books. I have several Barnes & Nobles bookstores that I can browse in and the other day I stopped in a half-price bookstore and bought $30 worth of books - five books.

Do the rest of you browse in bookstores? Of course, age does limit one's ability to drive distances or even to drive. Thank goodness for libraries.

marjifay · « **Reply #42 on:** June 12, 2012, 01:55:50 PM »

I can't browse bookstores any more because of osteoporosis, but I used to love to browse in used books stores. There aren't hardly any around here any more.

Yes, Ella, thank goodness for libraries (I can order online and my son picks them up for me). And thank goodness for online bookstores like Amazon -- altho' they make it too easy to buy books!

Marj

JoanP · « **Reply #43 on:** June 12, 2012, 07:21:29 PM »

Ella, Ann Patchett opened her own bookstore this past November, her "gift to Nashville." I{d love to know how it's doing. It's called Parnassus...in Nashville, the "Athens of the South."
I imagine she's experiencing the power of Amazon right now?

Marjifay, I don't think Ann P. is selling used books- I'm going to check out Parnassus bookstore now.

JoanP · « **Reply #44 on:** June 12, 2012, 07:29:37 PM »

Here's the Parnassus mission statement- what do you think?

About
An Independent Bookstore for Independent People
Description
Mission Statement:
Mt. Parnassus in Greek mythology is the home of literature, learning and music. We will be Nashville’s Parnassus by providing a refuge for Nashvillians of all ages who share in the love of the written word. We will partner with and support local writers and artists, businesses and institutions. We will strive to bring readers the best books in literature, non-fiction, children’s books, local interest and the arts in both printed and digital formats. We will provide venues for writers to connect with readers, and readers to connect with books. By doing this we hope to complement and add to the rich cultural character of the Athens of the South.

marcie · « **Reply #45 on:** June 13, 2012, 12:01:26 AM »

Sounds good to me. I support that mission statement. I'm wondering if any SeniorLearn participant lives near Nashville?

Steph · « **Reply #46 on:** June 13, 2012, 08:47:16 AM »

I dont live anywhere near Nashville, but I do know that there is a really really neat used book store there in the suburbs out by the new Opry..

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #47 on:** June 14, 2012, 10:58:40 AM »

Ann Patchett's "beef" about Amazon must be the price correct? They can sell books cheaper - no overhead, personnel, etc.

MARJ, sorry about the osteo, what is the pill supposedly to heal bone loss; my doctor wants me to take it. My health problems due to age are increasing also. It is the reason I recently moved into a retirement community - at the moment I am renting an apartment but it is connected to stepdowns and I am promised care for the rest of my life. It's strange, but a good feeling nevertheless.

One of the books I got at the used bookstore was TAFT by Ann Patchett. A strange, disconnected, book; another book which features a race situation - a common theme for authors.s

Perhaps it is just my opinion but I think as time goes on, and well after my death, race will no longer be such a problem in America.

JoanP · « **Reply #48 on:** June 14, 2012, 05:01:50 PM »

I thought the mission statement for the Parnassus bookstore in Nashville was describing our own mission statement here at SeniorLearn in a way - though we don't have book signings.

Used book stores in Nashville...Do the names "Elder's" or "Great Escapes" sound familiar, Steph? I hope that someone gets to go into Parnassus and tell Ann that we are discussion her books.

Ella, Taft sounds a bit like Run, doesn't it? Where does Ann P. get these names from? You're reading Taft - is this a character in the book - named after Howard Taft? In Run, we meet Tip and Teddy...which is more than enough odd names for one book in my opinion - but then we have Kenya and Tennessee too. I havn't read enough yet to read where these two names come from. Do you think Tip and Teddy are the boys' legal names - or are they nicknames, given to them by their politico father?

Then there are the race issues, the death of a parent, children left to reconstruct the missing parent. I'm sure we are each finding something of interest in Run. One question I'd like to address once we get into the book - how you view this story - is it mainly about families, how children pull themselves together and go on when a parent dies - or is it about interracial families - or, as the author has said, about politics?

Bright and early tomorrow morning - I hope to meet you here!

bookad · « **Reply #49 on:** June 14, 2012, 07:01:39 PM »

hello there

just got my book from the library, ready for the beginning of the read...looks like an interesting book, especially following the above discussion I am intrigued

I asked my husband if our route to Fort Myers could go thru Nashville...and it looks like that can be an option...I love small book stores ...we have one here in Orillia, Ontario, called Maticore...
it'll be interesting to go to that bookstore after reading Ann's book...will look forward to it, though that will be in late October or early November

Deb

Babi · « **Reply #50 on:** June 15, 2012, 08:26:57 AM »

While there are still race-related problems,..many of them connected to poverty...the
change since we were young is monumental. We've gone from 'back of the bus' to President
of the United States! Not to mention an extremely popular First Lady.

To me, "Run" seems to be primarily about families...what makes a family, how greatly
differing personalities can meld, and the need of the younger generation to find their
own path, despite the hopes and dreams of Dad or Mom.

Steph · « **Reply #51 on:** June 15, 2012, 08:38:36 AM »

Since today is the 15th, yes I do think the book is about race and how it has evolved over the years.

JoanP · « **Reply #52 on:** June 15, 2012, 08:52:34 AM »

Good morning, Babi, Steph - first ones in this morning - Bright-eyed and bushy-tailed? I love the expression - "bushy-tailed" - but not quite certain what it means.

I agree, I think the story is primarily about families - though I can see where race comes into it. Not so sure about the political aspect, but then, I've only read the first half of the book. Perhaps it comes into play later, as Ann Patchett, in an interview, sees the book's central idea is about political responsibility.

Deb, I'm so happy that you will represent us at the author's bookstore in Nashville! Be sure to share your experience with us? This discussion will be in the Archives by then, but you can always drop by SeniorLearn's Library. How long will you be Fort Myers? We make an annual pilgrimmage there - husband plays in a November softball tournament. I always look forward to a week on Ft. Myers Beach before the games begin.

JoanP · « **Reply #53 on:** June 15, 2012, 09:06:56 AM »

Steph, we'll begin this morning with the first half of the book, which will cover the accident, the introduction of the characters...and the startling revelation that follows the accident. Had Kenya not let on about the relationship between her mother and the boys, would there have been a story here? Do see see this child as the main character in the story? Or Doyle? After reading the first six chapters of the book, I'm not sure. Sullivan is another person of interest...

Beginning the book with the question of inheritance - and the rights of the first-born, the author seems to be bringing up a clash between the conventional traditional rules and change from the old ways of doing things.
Why do you think she began the book with the story of the statue of Mary and her importance to the Doyle family?

ALF43 · « **Reply #54 on:** June 15, 2012, 09:34:36 AM »

Joan, so far I see our narrator as Kenya. What an odd name to give a child but perhaps if your name is Tennessee, it isn't so odd. My son does missionary work in Kenya twice a year (but I digress from our story.) I have only read the first 5 chapters of the book so that I don't give anything away. If I read ahead, I forget where we are supposed to STOP, causing me to return over and over again to the proper pages.
Anyway, I think in the long run we will find that Kenya is the key to our story. I love the idea of multi generational and multi racial, although when it comes to families, what is the difference?
My granddaughter just attended her first prom, at 16, with a young, black man. I cringe to think what my father, who was very bigoted would think of his great-grand daughter dancing with a black boy.
He used to say that in 50 yrs. everyone will be gray and I hope that is so. At least noone will be pointing any fingers, casting aspersions. I remember arguing with him that my black class mate in nursing school was whiter on the inside than he was. Oh brother- now I hang my head in shame to think I spoke that way to him.
I love what Babi pointed out, "we've gonefrom back of the bus to Presidentof the US."

Bernadette's statue and its proper entitlement sets up our story as we learn of the statue's origin. Do you think that the statue had anything to do with the good luck bestowed on the young newly weds? After all, it was stolen, even if it did bear an uncanny resemblance to Doreen Clark's face!

ANNIE · « **Reply #55 on:** June 15, 2012, 09:43:04 AM »

I don't know why she used the statue story to start the book but I was hooked right from the beginning. Now I wonder if Kenya might not inherit it next.

As to whether I guessed that Kenya and her mother were related to the boys, it never occurred to me.

I liked the way Doyle raised the boys. He certainly gave many different ways to mature by introducing them to his love of politics and the ocean.

As to Sullivan, he really comes across as unpopular with his father due to his problems with drink and drugs but then we see that he is not quite as first presented.

For me the book is about a family and its relation to the world.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #56 on:** June 15, 2012, 09:56:58 AM »

Good morning and I have only a few minutes - am on the way to an exercise class. I haven't finished Chapter Two - goodness! I have no ideas about the statue of Bernadette; why the author started her book with this story. About prayer? I was amused that Bernadette prayed to stop praying.

Somewhere Doyle thinks how ironic it is that he spent thousands of dollars for a good education for one of the boys and he spends all his time in the basement studying and filing away fish in jars. How many of us have thought similarly.

Hello to all of you - good friends! I've read the posts.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #57 on:** June 15, 2012, 07:43:22 PM »

I've only read as far as Tennessee and Tip being in the hospital. I hope the book is somewhat about race, why would she have Doyle and Bernadette adopt African-American babies if there is not some importance to race in the story. If it's only about "families" and what makes a family, the adoption alone could have been enough of a question. However, so far, the only "racial" concept has been the emt's assuming Kenya "belonged to" Tip and Teddy.

BTW, i'm not from Mass so maybe i'm not enamoured enough w/ Democratic politicians from there, but really? Would someone give their kid the name Tip in honor if Tip O'Neill? What was Tip O'Neill's actual first name? Can you imagine this poor kid having to explain why his name is Tip all his life, and especially as an adult? I know some parents have been cruel when bestowing names on their children. I hope she expounds on those names somewhere in the story.

I can't figure out the title yet. So far the only potential connection to "Run" is Kenya's talent at it. ALF, my dgt had a friend named Kenya in high school.

Also can't yet figure out the statue angle, except maybe the sisters will use the racial angle against the boys getting it, but that could have been the arguement w/ any adopted boys.

I don't fault Doyle for trying to instill his values in his children, don't we all do that? Isn't that a job of parents? And sometimes we have to push, especially w/ teenage/college age children. Not constantly, but sometimes children need to be DIRECTED.

Lots of questions, answers still to come, i hope.

Jean

marcie · « **Reply #58 on:** June 15, 2012, 08:08:50 PM »

I too think that the book is about families, especially mothers. The statue seems to represent not just the mother of God but the Doyle children's mother too. The information about the statue seems a catchy way to draw us into the book and the family of Bernadette.

Jean. Tip O'Neill's full name was Thomas Phillip "Tip" O'Neill.

ANNIE · « **Reply #59 on:** June 15, 2012, 09:33:01 PM »

Good grief, Jean
I never connected "Tip" with Tip O'Neil but this is Boston so who do we think "Teddy" is named after? Hahahaha!

JoanP · « **Reply #60 on:** June 15, 2012, 09:52:21 PM »

Golly, Jean - you're good at identifying the questions, we should "hire" you to lead us through the discussion of this book!

I'm with you, I'm looking for some sort of explanation for the names in the story. Kenya and Tennessee. Tip and Teddy? Even Bernard and Bernadette. I did look up "Tip" as Teddy is obvious. Marcie, I looked up Tip O'Neill's name - Thomas Phillip O'Nei, as you say...Thought Tip was an elision of Thomas and Phillip...but read further that he was a baseball fan...nick-named for "a baseball player, James Edward O'Neill of the old St. Louis Browns, who had the knack of hitting foul tips until the pitcher walked him. So Mr. O'Neill's boyhood friends gave him the name."

No real clue there as to why the Doyle boys were so named. But when you put the two names together, two Irish politicians...and the Irishman, Bernard Doyle, former mayor of Boston - Boston liberals all, fighting for the working man. Maybe there will be more on the political aspects of the story as we go along. Bernard and Bernadette must have given these boys Irish nicknames for a reason don't you think? Probably AFTER Teddy was adopted - but I'm just guessing.

JoanP · « **Reply #61 on:** June 15, 2012, 09:52:45 PM »

Since the statue was introduced first, let's consider its significance of that for a bit. You describe it as a "catchy way to draw us into the book," Jean. I wonder if it will continue to be important to the story. Annie wonders if Kenya will end up inheriting the statue. Now there's a thought.

Funny, isn't it - a redhaired Mary? I've seen brunettes and blonds, but never red-haired blue eyed Marys. Doreen's husband was so taken with the likeness to Doreen - that he stole it! Doreen loved it - because she looked so much like herself. Her greanddaughter loved it, because everyone said she looked like Doreen - and the statue. Her little boys loved it because it looked like Bernadette - the only mother they knew.- Is the statue supposed to go to the one who most closely resembles it? Is it supposed to stay in Doreen Clark's own blood line?

Andy, do you remember how many knew that statue had been stolen? Did Bernadette tell her husband? Who will tell the boys when the time comes? I don't see how good luck would follow ta family whose history is based on lies. Doreen had a hard time with this, too...and yet family members coveted it. Did Bernadette's sister know the story when she tried to get Doyle to give it to her? She felt entitled, didn't she? Why did Doyle stand up to her - how did he get her to back off?

Ella, you always pick up on the funniest things...Bernadette praying to stop praying! I'm going to go back and read that section again.

marjifay · « **Reply #62 on:** June 16, 2012, 12:33:45 AM »

Regarding the red-haired statue of St. Mary, weren't a lot of the Irish people red headed?
I'm not sure why the book started with the story of the stolen statue.

I'm still wondering why Patchett made the two boys black. Was it to show the contrast between a rich and poor family. As tho' black people are poor? Isn't that a stereotype?

This book was a bit better than her State of Wonder which was a DNF for me. I haven't read Bel Canto which everyone seems to think is very good.

Marj

Steph · « **Reply #63 on:** June 16, 2012, 08:29:08 AM »

Having spent ten years in Boston, Tip and Teddy were obvious to me.. Irish politicians by default are almost always democrats.. Being Irish is important in politics in Boston..

Babi · « **Reply #64 on:** June 16, 2012, 09:23:00 AM »

There is some disagreement on that, JOAN. Some say "bright-eyed and bushy tailed" refers
to cats, others to squirrels. The description fits both when they're excited and ready for
action. So of course, in referring to people, it means they are excited and ready to go.
As to the significance of the story of the statue, that will surely become clearer as
the story develops. Interesting point about the 'red-haired' Mary. But then, it was an Irish-made statue. We know there have been black statues of the Virgin as well. It's natural enough, isn't
it, that different ethnic artists would want to create an image their people could relate to and imagine as empathizing and understanding them?

It appears that Bernadette's family were very supportive of her adoption of the boys,
JEAN. They could reasonably object, tho', that the statue has always passed on to a daughter.
We definitely do instill our values into our children...for better or worse. Haven't we always thought, when we hear a child say revealing things, that we 'know where that came from'? As for career choices, I never pointed any of my children in a particular direction. I was far too fascinated by watching them grow and develop their own interests.

ALF43 · « **Reply #65 on:** June 16, 2012, 11:31:34 AM »

Yes Joan, Bernadette told her husband of the true origin of the statue at the beginning of the book. She told him she would only relate the story once.

I can't really blame the father for being a tad upset at Tip for holing himself up into the Dept. of Ichtyology. The guy even forgot to wear a coat, he was so involved with his fish. YUK! all that education and he becomes an introvert studying the life cycles of different species of fish. I'm with the old man on that one(even if he did taket he blame for Tip's original interest in fish.)
I love this statement: " Would the country lay down its foreign wars, its need for health care and education, in order to turn its collective gaze to the splendors of the cod?' That cracked me up- the only lol sentence I've find, so far.
It's heart warming that Teddy's bond with Sullivan and the Roman Church was so strong .

Yes, Patchett makes it clear, early on, that this is a story about politics. I didn't realize that "being a Democrat" necessitated a responsibility. That is why Doyle continued to drag his two, loyal sons toward "the cause of leadership."

Off to the lake for two days for sun and fun. Enjoy your father's day weekend.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #66 on:** June 16, 2012, 05:39:04 PM »

Babi says It appears that Bernadette's family were very supportive of her adoption of the boys,

If some of this story is to focus on race, i wish she had given us more story on that issue. I have my doubts if, in Boston, or almost anywhere else in the country, the whole family would have been supportive of the adoption. She seems to glide over some parts of the "race" story with idealism. It would be wonderful if that would happen everywhere, but i doubt that it would. Adoption is a choice, i'm sure there would be arguements about how difficult it would be to raise two Black boys - perhaps with all good intentions, but an arguement just the same. I know many people are more accepting today about family members marrying inter-religiously or inter-racially then when i got married, but those extended family members don't have a choice of having that spouse in the family altho they may have something to say to the family member before the wedding.

Maybe she wanted a "small" story, but i think it might have been more interesting to add some incidents/events where race is a bigger and more realistic part of the Doyle's lives. Of course, our whole country has a huge problem discussing racial issues and tends to avoid those discussions, so maybe that's the issue we are seeing here. It would be ironic, Patchett quietly showing the issue of Americans not dealing with racial issues by not dealing with the ravial issues of the protagonists in her story!!!

mynioga · « **Reply #67 on:** June 16, 2012, 07:17:36 PM »

I'd like to join. I have the book from the library and have started it.

ANNIE · « **Reply #68 on:** June 16, 2012, 08:07:58 PM »

Welcome to the discussion, mynioga. We are reading the 1st half of the book, Chap 1 thru chap 6 during the first week. This is not a long book and you might enjoy reading the posts,too. Can't wait to hear from another corner of the SL Books department.

JoanP · « **Reply #69 on:** June 16, 2012, 11:19:59 PM »

Happy to see you here with us, mynioga To echo Annie, WELCOME!

Jean, I got the feeling that Bernadette's family was happy and supportive of her wishes to have another child. These are Irish Catholics - one child was not the norm. I wonder how Sullivan took the repeated attempts and disappointment before the first baby was adopted. I think the Doyles would have been happy with that baby - with Tip, but then the mother wanted them to take the younger child - and so they did.

I went back and reread the opening chapter to get a sense of how the family had accepted the boys. I thought it was telling when they came to the Doyle's house shortly after Bernadette's death to collect the statue, which they felt belonged to Bernadette's niece - "because the statue always goes to a daughter." When Doyle responded that "it has in the past but it isn't a law. It can go to a son for one generation and everyone will survive."

The two women, the aunts knew that Doyle didn't mean Sullivan, his oldest son.
He meant the other ones, the "little boys" ...And why should two adopted sons, two black adopted sons, own the statue..." The italics are the author's. Do you get the feeling that that is their main objection - or the fact that they are boys, adopted boys? What is the point Ann Patchett is making with this issue?

It's a good thing the aunts accepted Uncle Sullivan's viewpoint - Tip and Teddy were able to keep the statue - which meant so much to them.

I've had some experience with the distribution of family heirlooms following my father's death.{My mother died when I was very young.} It was just assumed by my four younger siblings that the real heirlooms were to be mine - my mother's engagement ring, the old Family Bible, family history recorded inside.. I'm not sure where these should go after I'm gone. Years later, I learn that my sister had always wanted the family pictures...newspaper clippings, obituaries, my mother's artwork - all stored at my house.

I can't see my guys fighting over these things, but how do I decide which of my siblings to pass them on to? I understand Doyle's point in this case - but in general, the old way seems to be an easy place to start. How do you handle this sort of thing?

Thanks for the explanation, Babi - wish I could say I was "bushtailed" first thing in the morning.

marcie · « **Reply #70 on:** June 17, 2012, 12:01:28 AM »

joanP, you quote: "The two women, the aunts knew that Doyle didn't mean Sullivan, his oldest son.
He meant the other ones, the "little boys" ...And why should two adopted sons, two black adopted sons, own the statue..."

And you say: The italics are the author's. Do you get the feeling that that is their main objection - or the fact that they are boys, adopted boys? What is the point Ann Patchett is making with this issue?

I think that their main objection is gender. The statue is supposed to go to a girl.... and a girl that looks like the statue. Perhaps that is why the italics. The inheritors-to-be are not Irish girls and on top of it, they are black boys. Black boys do not look like a red-headed statue.

I agree that there is not a lot of racial tension in the book. It seems to me that the author was trying to focus on similarities, rather than race-differences, although she does include differences.

Babi · « **Reply #71 on:** June 17, 2012, 09:40:36 AM »

JEAN, I wonder if the fact that the Doyle's had both money and political clout meant
that the race issues were less noticeable in their lives. Tip and Teddy would not have had
the same experiences Kenya did, certainly.

Quote

The two women, the aunts knew that Doyle didn't mean Sullivan, his oldest son.

JOANP, how did you come to that conclusion? I don't remember anything that suggested Doyle was referring only to the two adopted boys in his remarks about the statue. It would be rather strange, if he did. All the boys were still quite young when Bernadette died.
The aunts, of course, could have felt it would be wrong for the statue to..in their eyes..
leave the family.

I am enjoying becoming 're-acquainted' with the family. Tip is the scientist, an ichthyologist. He is enthralled with marine life and works at the Museum of Comparative Zoology. Teddy is the people person, the empathetic one, concerned for the happiness and well-being of those around him. And Sullivan, complex, troubled, and perhaps entering a 'sea change'.
Uncle Sullivan, retired aging priest, firmly believed by many to be a saint and able to heal,
to his considerable distress. Yet he pities those who come, he cannot refuse to pray for them,
and sometimes...well, they claim he has healed them.
Bernard Doyle wants at least one of his sons to follow him into politics. He as been taking
them to hear lectures and speeches on political topics since they were old enough to sit through
one. “They were practically legends of patience in certain circles, sitting quietly in their white
shirts at dinner tables full of adults, occasionally offering up a single insightful and utterly
charming question.”

Steph · « **Reply #72 on:** June 17, 2012, 10:05:02 AM »

Kenya is interesting and gets more so.. The running is obviously why the title of the book.

JoanP · « **Reply #73 on:** June 17, 2012, 10:43:45 AM »

Steph...the running can mean running for political office as Babi just mentioned - and also the running Kenya and the two younger boys excel at, right?
The title could refer to both forms of running.

Babi - I was quoting the book - page 2 in the hardcover edition - "they knew that Doyle didn't mean for the family's one heirloom to pass to Sullivan, his oldest son." Funny, if it was supposed to go to the one who most resembled the statue, I remember reading that Sullivan bore a striking resemblance to Bernadette - the red hair, the blue eyes...
That could have been Doyle's arguement, the resemblance to his first born child - but it wasn't. He wanted to keep it because the "little" boys were attached to it.

Another interesting quote that tells us something about Doyle's strong personality - "I own it now and so I'm the one who gets to decide. Bernadette's children are as entitled to their family legacy as any other Sullivan children." I wonder what would have happened if Uncle Sullivan had favored the aunts' position...

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #74 on:** June 17, 2012, 11:51:53 AM »

WELCOME, MYNIOGA! We would love to read a post from you. Do you like the book as far as you have read? Have you read other books by Ann Patchett?

What an interesting discussion this is turning out to be!

JOANP asked about family heirlooms - "but how do I decide which of my siblings to pass them on to?" I think you will know as time goies on which of the children show the most interest in family history; at least that is the way it has been in my family. Just recently my sister in AZ asked me for the copy of our mother's family history that is recorded in Tyler County Court House, W.VA. Well, I stored it in a plastic tub in my small storage basement area reserved for tenants in my retirement community. Now I will do a hard search for it. Why didn't she decide this earlier? It is because of a "fracking" interest we have in mineral rights inherited. Complicated, OH!

JEAN commented on the racial problem in America. "Of course, our whole country has a huge problem discussing racial issues and tends to avoid those discussions."

I agree and I think we at times gloss over this by stating that the situation is better than it was before the Civil Rights Act. It is still a big problem for all of us in America - I don't know how we can make it better.

Ann Patchett constantly in these first chapters mentions the black/white issue; the adoption - black/white attendants in the hospital, etc.

JESSE JACKSON, I do remember. I am with the boys, I thought he was boring to listen to, but he was a leader, a role model for young African Americans. And the Rainbow Coalition did bring awareness to the plight of African Americans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson

marjifay · « **Reply #75 on:** June 17, 2012, 11:57:48 AM »

Jean wrote, "If some of this story is to focus on race, i wish she had given us more story on that issue. I have my doubts if, in Boston, or almost anywhere else in the country, the whole family would have been supportive of the adoption. She seems to glide over some parts of the "race" story with idealism. It would be wonderful if that would happen everywhere, but i doubt that it would. Adoption is a choice, i'm sure there would be arguements about how difficult it would be to raise two Black boys - perhaps with all good intentions, but an arguement just the same."

That's how I felt about the story. What was the point in having the two adopted boys be black? It was pointed out often that they were black, but so what? Would the story have been any different if they were not black? I thought she was going to make some point, but it never seemed to me to be made.

There were some other things about the story, later on, that to me made no sense either.., i.e. Uncle Sullivan's mysterious "power," and Kenya's real mother.

Marj

ANNIE · « **Reply #76 on:** June 17, 2012, 03:40:11 PM »

I am still reading chap 5 and 6 for the second time. Let's see what that tells us about Uncle Father Sullivan and his healing powers.

Personally, I did not find the adoption of two black little boys offputting. Bernadette was so happy to have them and evidently her husband, the councilman and later mayor of Boston, was delighted also. Didn't I read of him wishing that they had adopted Kenya also as that would have given Bernadette such pleasure. They would have finally had a girl!

How do we know that Sullivan, the oldest and the one who looks the most like his mother won't get the statue? We do get a snatch of identification with his earlier years and how good he was with boys. Their color didn't come into the his story then? He considers them his brothers. I think there is more to hear about Sullivan in this book.

bookad · « **Reply #77 on:** June 17, 2012, 10:48:10 PM »

hi there

have not read anything by this author before & quite often have a hard time when reading a fiction book keeping my interest up
--but this book grabbed me...so many things to find out down the road....Sullivan & what got him into trouble, Kenya & her exposure to this family over the years, but only from a distance from across the street--the statue being brought back into the story & the relatives who feel it belongs elsewhere in the family-(mentioned at the beginning of the book & left out till the end of chapter 4 at least)

it seems we certainly wouldn't be enlightened about the scandal of the elder son till later in the book & ?? did the adoption cause a bit of scandal of its own; adopting outside the ethnic group of the family!!!???

Quote

After so many years people had forgotten about the adoptions and the death of his wife and the scandal surrounding his oldest son.

pg 40 ch 2

though Ann Patchett really hasn't brought much into the book about the issue of a family adopting children of another ethnic background, she certainly in the paragraph below manages to make sure we are aware of a colour difference being noted.....

Quote

The ambulance driver was a black man with some island accent. Of the two men who worked on her mother, one was white and one was black. All three of the policeman were white men. The white ambulance attendant snapped a white plastic collar around her mother's neck, while the black ambulance attendant belted her legs.

pg 60 ch3

why the use of the name

Quote

Sacajawea

[/b]--wasn't she the Indian woman who led Lewis & Clark across the continent?---& her name came into play following Kenya tracking the snow from the steps the house so the boys and their father would be able to access the stairs better.--I guess she is leading the men into the unknown relationship she and her mother have with them!!!!?

I skimmed a rereading of the first 4 chapters and am game to continue...fortunately its the 17th & I guess we move to the next couple of chapters, though it was hard for me to stop & I guess I read chapter 4 ahead of schedule

Deb

mabel1015j · « **Reply #78 on:** June 17, 2012, 11:09:02 PM »

I was going to comment about the "Sacajawea" statement, BOOKAD. I read that paragraph three times and still don't get it???

Jean

JoanP · « **Reply #79 on:** June 18, 2012, 08:11:40 AM »

Quote

"... though Ann Patchett really hasn't brought much into the book about the issue of a family adopting children of another ethnic background, she certainly in the paragraph below manages to make sure we are aware of a colour difference being noted."

Deb, I think you may be describing Ann Patchett's style with this observation. She's not going to tell us much about what her characters are thinking - or even what she, as the author, thinks of them. She makes the reader observe what they are doing, what they are saying - their actions speak for them. We're not going to get explanations or interpretations from Ms. Patchett.

I love these discussions - you all bring up things that I have read over without questionning - like Sacajawea. I think I read it as a term, acceptable slang, not a name -

Marjifay, stick with us - I have so much confidence in Ann Patchett's writing that when we are through with a close examination of what she has written, all will become clear. Clearer, at least.

Admittedly, she's left many unanswered questions. Let's see how she does. If things still don't make sense to you, we can make a list for Deb to deliver to the bookstore in Nashville - how's that?

You ask an interesting question... "What was the point in having the two adopted boys be black? It was pointed out often that they were black, but so what? Would the story have been any different if they were not black?" Let's keep it in miind as we read.

Jean, I'm off to reread to find the "Sacajawea" reference in context - and refill the coffee cup. Will be right back.

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