Author Topic: Presidents Club, The by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy~September Book Club Online  (Read 49875 times)

HaroldArnold

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #280 on: September 27, 2012, 12:06:12 PM »
The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

SEPTEMBER BOOK CLUB ONLINE   

As we head into another overheated and polarizing presidential campaign, at least it's a comfort knowing that former presidents have learned to mostly put aside partisan politics and work together.  Thanks to the brilliant investigative work of Time magazine's Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy, The Presidents Club uncovers a powerful secret fraternity, in which ex-leaders stay in the game by counseling inexperienced successors. - USA Today

Realizing that membership in the Presidents Club bestows a singular perspective can help explain certain minor mysteries of our political life. How, for example, could Clinton ever forgive George H.W. Bush, who in the 1992 campaign all but charged him with being a traitor, if not a Soviet stooge, for visiting Russia as a college student and protesting the Vietnam War “from foreign soil”? Why has Obama, whose presidential quest embodied a repudiation of everything George W. Bush stood for, heard scarcely a grumble about his policies from his once-belligerent predecessor? The answer lies in what Kennedy said to Arthur Schlesinger when asked to rank the presidents: “Only the president himself can know what his real pressures and his real alternatives are.” It’s a sentiment that virtually every president voices at one point or another in this book. - Washington Post


DISCUSSION SCHEDULE:

Chapters 1-9           9/1 through 9/8
Chapters 10-14       9/9 through 9/15
Chapters 15-19       9/16 through 9/22
Chapters 20-26       9/23 through 9/30

 
Related Links: Secrets of the Presidents Club - Video
Book TV with Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy;

Discussion Leaders:   Ella and Harold

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Harold Arnold:
Our authors in Chapter 24 discuss Bush (2)’s growing up with his Dad in rather great detail.  I’m not sure I follow the fine points of the details but I emerged with the conclusion that George W.’s experience growing up was rather typical for the upper class mid 20th century U.S. family.   Father/son antagonism (particularly Father/ elder son) are rather common.   George W.  seems to have straightened out his bout with alcoholism rather well, and when I first knew of him during and after his father’s term as President he was one of the owners and active in the management of the Dallas National league Baseball club.  I certainly never thought of him as Presidential material.  It was a real surprise when he suddenly was in the news running for Governor of Texas and even more so when he was elected President.  John Adams had to wait nearly 25 years before his son won the Presidency,  George H.W. had to wait only 8 years for his son to win making them the second two generation Presidential family.

I think public opinion initially enthusiastically approved George W.  handling of the World Trade Center attack.  Our Intelligence agencies knew the source and missiles (I think all launched from U.S. and British Submarines) were hitting Afghan targets before 9/11 was over.   The U.S. followed immediately with ground force operations against the Alquida element then governing Afghanistan that quickly succeeded in removing the Alquida Government after which a guerrilla war continued.   It still continues today.
 
The situation was complicated in March 2003 when the Iraq Invasion began.  Again this was an international operation that included U.S., British and Polish forces.  It quickly occupied the entire country and removed the Husain government.  The 9 year operation continues to this day, but is scheduled to end next year.   Never the less George W. won the election giving him a 2nd term in 2004 after which he served out his term increasingly unpopular to become a member of the Club where he seems to be fitting in after the pattern of other unpopular ex’s such as Nixon Ford, and Carter etc.

Ella Gibbons

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #281 on: September 27, 2012, 01:25:29 PM »
JEAN, I agree G.W.Bush was frightening - two speeches are burned in my memory from his presidency.  The Axis of Evil speech naming 3 countries scared me.  This goes out to the world and I wondered how those countries thought - did Bush intend war on all of them.  N.Korea, Iran and Iraq.  And then, of course, his stupid landing on a carrier boasting MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.  Unlike Clinton, I think he was just dumb, obsessed with proving his worth to his father.  I once read in a book that the father was furious that Junior campaigned and won the presidency as he intended Jeb to be the son as president.  I don't remember once that father Bush appeared on the scene to back Junior politically.

"Between father and son, it was virtuallly impossible to reconcile the two worldviews." - p.487

Many politicians, and others, bellieve the Iraq/Afghanistan war wrong.  I think history will prove that.  

JOANP remarked - "I don't hear much about him now, do you"

No, I don't, JOAN, and I think that is surprising, but Bush did say (p.496) that he cherished his friendship with Clinton; however  - "I'm out of the game.  He's not.  He's going to be active for a good while longer."

He was right.


Ella Gibbons

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #282 on: September 27, 2012, 01:32:37 PM »
BARACK OBAMA.    We have about two days to discuss the man, his campaigns (two of them) his 4 years of being the Commander-in-Chief, leader of the world.

A black man, not an elite, not from wealth or close family bonds, he nevertheless came from nowhere and won the big prize.  What do you think personally about him and what do our authors state?  Do you think they lean one or another?

HaroldArnold

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #283 on: September 27, 2012, 02:49:11 PM »
Comments on recent Posts.

North Korea, Iraq (under Saddam Hussein), Iran,  "Axis of Evil"Sounds appropriate to me.   How else could these Governments be described?

"Mission Accomplished,"  Definitely premature as later developments decided, but arguably an apparent judgement at the time.

threadheadnet

  • Posts: 20
The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #284 on: September 27, 2012, 07:32:03 PM »
I'm too lazy to go upstairs to get our book but does it have this photo from January 2009?
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Five_Presidents_Oval_Office.jpg
Our authors say Obama suggested W host a Club luncheon. Why would Obama suggest this? How gracious was W to do it? Why is there distance between Carter and the others? Is that the only photo w/five Presidents?

I hate to finish this book but it has helped me put our current campaign in perspective. Thanks to Ella and Harold for facilitating the discussion.

Ella Gibbons

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #285 on: September 28, 2012, 09:15:25 AM »
HAROLD - Neither N.Korea, Iran or Iraq had attacked the United States.  What right did we have to proclaim them evil?  Is our judgment so superior or correct that we can divide countries into evil and good?

If I were a Muslim country that attitude would have made me more angry, more liable to attack any soldiers sent to Iraq. Just an opinion.  I would not make a good political leader because I believe in the Golden Rule of do until others as you would have others do unto you.


Until we know exactly who attacked us on 9/11 I think Bush should have kept quiet.  Of course, he should have denounced the attack on the World Trade Center and assured the world that we would find those responsible.

KATHLEEN, that same picture is in the book.  I must review the last chapter before I post any more.  Am in a hurry this morning. 

I do want to tell KATHLEEN, who is new to our book discussions, to stay with us. We do a book a month, of all kind of books, see our Archives below.  We are so happy you found us and appreciate your comments.

HaroldArnold

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #286 on: September 28, 2012, 09:26:05 AM »
Yes, a B&W version is in my digital edition of the book.  According to the text caption Obama was not yet President when the picture was made.  The occasion was just before the Jan 20th inauguration.  Bush, still President, had invited the President elect and the ex Presidents to a pre inauguration visit where the picture was made.

Is it color or B&W in the print edition?7

mabel1015j

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #287 on: September 28, 2012, 11:44:19 AM »
Just saw this in my History Newsletter......

Who was or is the best president of the United States since 1900? Newsweek recently polled 10 eminent historians and 600 randomly selected Americans about our country’s presidents. And the differences in their responses were striking.

The top two finishers among the public were Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton, while the top two finishers among the historians were Franklin Roosevelt and Theodore Roosevelt. Jimmy Carter and George H.W. Bush both made the top 10—9th and 10th, respectively—in the public’s list, but not the historians’ rankings. And Lyndon Johnson and Woodrow Wilson—3rd and 5th, respectively, in the historians’ poll—didn’t make the public’s top 10.

How to account for these divergences? The most obvious explanation is that historians, true to their profession, seemed to place a greater emphasis on the distant past, while the public’s selections skewed toward recent decades...


I'll find the whole list and put it up. Obviously the historians have a better sense of the earlier presidents.

mabel1015j

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #288 on: September 28, 2012, 11:55:37 AM »
Here's a nice video w/ an interview w/ historian Harold Evans who coordinated the historians to choose the top 10 presidents since Teddy R.

http://mrctv.org/videos/newsweek-obama-top-10-presidents-teddy-roosevelt

threadheadnet

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The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #289 on: September 28, 2012, 01:18:01 PM »
Thanks, Mabel, for posting that MSNBC video with Harold Evans. He's married to Newsweek editor, Tina Brown, and publisher of The Week, one of my favorite mags). Evans says the historians ranked Presidents using two factors:
-active *and*
-effective
He added that FDR has a vision for the country (the "vision thing").

Wonder how these same historians would judge the men covered in our book ... Hoover to Obama ... as *ex-Presidents.* The two Bushes have not been active, at least publicly. Of the active ones, methinks effectiveness is in the eyes of the beholder. I imagine each President had a vision for the country; is the difference his ability to articulate it while in office?

What truly amazes me is when/how an ex-President cooperates to help the current office-holder ... probably in tension with his vision of correct strategy but also best tactics, huh? Some do it better than others, at least in our authors' eyes.

JoanK

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #290 on: September 28, 2012, 03:46:24 PM »
great that you were able to see Bush. The only one of these presidents I've seen are Truman (inaugaration parade, from a distance) and Clinton. I wangled an invitation to be in the Rose garden when clinton and Hillary greeted Nelson Mandela as a head of state for the first time. A very emotional experience for me.

Since I was in a wheelchair, I was in a special section, near to the president, almost near enough to shake Mandela's hand. My fellow whellchairers were clearly regulars who came to every such ceremony, and were comparing this one to others.

Unfortunately, I didn't have a camera.

bellamarie

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #291 on: September 28, 2012, 04:59:23 PM »
Ella~
Quote
A black man, not an elite, not from wealth or close family bonds, he nevertheless came from nowhere and won the big prize.  What do you think personally about him and what do our authors state?  Do you think they lean one or another?

Barack Obama is a bi-racial man.  His father was African from Kenya, and his mother was white from Kansas.  He was raised with his white grandparents, in Hawaii who were very well off.  She held a high position in banking. He seemed to hob nob with many elites on his way to the White House, not to mention he has Hollywood celebrities enamored with him.  In his book "Dreams From My Father" I read where he speaks of animosity toward his mother's  white race.  Throughout his years in college he formed friendships with mostly blacks, Chicanos and more radical people.  He admittedly, spent much of his college years doing drugs.  He also writes, because he did not spend much time in the company of his father, he learned about him through his mother.  His mother was a bit of a rebel herself, and left him with her mother to raise.  So, I wonder if Obama even really knew his mother or father.  Is this why we see so few pictures of him, and we know so little about him?  The men he drew himself to as mentors, as a young male and in his early adulthood, are those who had very radical/anti American ideas. Rev. Jeremiah Wright, he calls, not only his lifelong mentor of 20 yrs in his church,  his spiritual guide, but also, was like a father to him. Then as Ella states, he "came from nowhere and won the big prize." 

My personal feelings, are that he was groomed by these men in his life, from the time he was young, into early adulthood, to "win the big prize," to pursue their ideologies.  I feel Obama, and many of his democrats, have used the racist card many times to make white Americans feel bad, if we do not support, or agree with their policies, yet he is half white and seems to not want to recognize that.  As far as his effectiveness in the four years he has been president, I can honestly say, I feel it will take years to undo the damage he has done with the economy, foreign relations, racial tensions and class warfare.  Yes, he keeps reminding us that he had a mess when he took office, which is true.  BUT.....I feel he has not helped to make it at all better, if anything adding 16 Trillion dollars more in debt over 4 yrs, has put this country deeper in debt to China, weakens our dollar, and lessens our strength as a country.  He acknowledges his success in killing Bin Laden, yet we are now dealing with the out come of that, with terrorists killing our Ambassador, two navy seals and an assistant of our Ambassador.  The uprising in the Middle East since 9-11-2012, does not in any way make me feel safer. If anything I believe Al Quieda, as they are stating, will avenge Bin Laden's death with more terrorist attacks.  On the 11th anniversary of 9-11, I am still trying to understand, after receiving information of a possible attack on our embassies, why did he NOT beef up security with our own soldiers to secure our embassies?  Was campaigning and winning re election so much more important, that he thought skipping security briefings was okay? 

My biggest concern when I saw the DNC push Hillary out of her right to continue running for the spot on the ticket, and hand it to Obama, was that he was a person with NO experience what so ever.  When I discussed my concerns with Obama supporters I asked them, "If you were the owner of a huge successful company, would you appoint a newly, inexperienced college graduate to the CEO position?"   So when he won the presidency,  I was in shock, especially when he was running against John McCain, a longtime, intelligent, respected Senator, POW, ex veteran, and has experience with foreign affairs.  I can't explain the why, but I think I understand the how it happened.  Instead of Obama using the president's club to help him more, (with the state of affairs he inherited), since he lacks knowledge and experience, he surrounded himself with appointees/czars, that were his friends, with the same ideologies as his own. Other than using Clinton for public approval ratings and the release of the journalists, the authors did not give us any indication Obama reached out much, if any, to others in the club.

I think the authors did not lean one way or the other, where Obama is concerned.  They did not cover him as much as I feel they could have, but then again, there has been so little that the public has been allowed to have access to, leading up to being elected, and to this very day, so it would be difficult for them.  No school records, no college transcripts, no thesis or papers he wrote in college, no access to his other brothers, sister, cousins, grandmothers, friends etc., etc.  Rev. Wright his long time spiritual guide, was some how removed from the picture once the videos of him became public how he hates whites and America.  Just a Law review professor, and community organizer, before being elected to the Illinois senate.  Then "out of NOWHERE" he becomes President...wins the big prize!  ???

I hold my faith, priests, church and religion sacred in my life.  I could never image denouncing them or the church, I have attended my entire life, or for 20 yrs. I am still bewildered with that entire decision, he made on his way to the White House.  But then again, was it a decision he could avoid?

Well, as all good things must come to an end, our book discussion draws to an end.  I have truly enjoyed being back with all of you.  If nothing else, we are an intelligent, spunky, opinionated, fact finder, and fun group.  Thank you to Ella and Harold for once again, guiding us, informing us and leading us into an in depth look at "The President's Club."  I look forward to the next time we join one another for an interesting discussion.

Happy Fall to y'all....... Ciao for now~

“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Ella Gibbons

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #292 on: September 28, 2012, 07:00:07 PM »
OH, WELL, GOODNESS, JEAN!

What a video.

Perhaps to the "effective" and "vision" criteria that the historians used for the 10 best presidents since Teddy Roosevelt, should be added the word "optimism."

That was a word used in an essay in TIME a few weeks ago, stating that the candidate who will win the psresidency is the one who is most optimistic about the future.  Americans like optimism, see themselves as such.


PatH

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #293 on: September 28, 2012, 07:27:04 PM »
I also saw Harry Truman at his inauguration (the only inauguration I've seen in person).  I saw Kennedy once after his election but before his inauguration.  I was walking down a street in Georgetown, and he came out of his house across the street.  Bush 41 came to NIH once, and some of us guessed his route and stood in a cross-corridor and waved at him, only about 25 feet away.  He waved back charmingly.

threadheadnet

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #294 on: September 28, 2012, 08:18:31 PM »
I also saw Harry Truman at his inauguration (the only inauguration I've seen in person) ...

PatH: how wonderful that you attended an inauguration; I cannot imagine! The only President I've seen "up close and personal" was Bill Clinton, at a Costco book signing. I thanked him for his service to our country from the bottom of my heart, as I can't imagine one person doing this job. Many people were sportin' buttons 'I remember 8 years of peace & prosperity.' Is that a way to measure Presidents?

Back to the book! I liked the early chapters and learned a lot; the editing and writing seemed above average. The later ones (1980 Reagan ---> Obama 2012) were less cohesive. Is that because there's not enuff distance for me to assess the authors' text? 

PatH

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #295 on: September 28, 2012, 08:58:36 PM »
I've been out of town and busy, just finished the book Wednesday evening, and my punishment is I have only 2 days left to say anything about it.

It's not too surprising the authors are skimpy about Obama.  We're still in the middle of things, too close to be objective, and too much is still an unfinished story.  And they can't yet have access to nearly as much behind the scenes material as they have about most of the men.  It's interesting how much we know now about some of the events in the book that wasn't known at the time.

What do I think of Obama?  He was immediately handed a number of very messy, difficult problems.  I don't think anybody would have been able to fix all the messes, but he is trying hard, and doing as good a job as anyone else could.  He is certainly finding out what the other presidents in the book found, that even if you have ideas of what you want to do, it isn't as easy to implement them as you thought it would be.  I find him personally quite impressive.

I think the authors try to be even-handed, even a bit bland, toward the presidents while they are in office, not criticizing when they can avoid it.

HaroldArnold

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #296 on: September 29, 2012, 12:25:18 PM »
We are now nearing the end of our discussion though I am sure the board will remain open tomorrow and probably Monday for concluding remarks by all.  Hopefully all of you will post your concluding comments on the book and the discussion.  This afternoon I will be at the Texas Indian exhibit at the Institute of Texan cultures but will return this afternoon for further comments. 

To day and tomorrow lets have an active close by everyone.

JoanK

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #297 on: September 29, 2012, 10:39:39 PM »
I really enjoyed the book. I learned a lot of details, but more important, I saw the office and the men in it in a new way.

And our discussion leaders did a great job. Hooray!

Ella Gibbons

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #298 on: September 30, 2012, 07:49:59 AM »
GEE, here it is the 30th and the month went so fast.  Due in large part because of our book discussion; I sat down every day in front of the computer eager to see what each of you had to say about these presidents, each chapter.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION, FOR YOUR INSIGHT.  I also learned something new about each president..  We had some criticisms of the book, but taken altogether it was a good read.  A different look at our history, the times we lived through, the presidents we followed. 

"Historians measure and rank presidents (as do we as citizens).  But when they take the longer view, presidents do not just compare themselves to one another, they weigh their leadership against what might have been.............they are often just as proud of what didn't happen."

No one knows the job better than those who walked in your shoes and we can certainly understand that a president needs the support of those who walked before.

I hope you enjoyed the book and the discussion and that you will join us in other nonfiction book discussions as they are offered. 

If you have any ideas for one, please post them in the nonfiction folder. -

http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=84.2280

THANKS TO ALL OF YOU AGAIN!

HaroldArnold

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #299 on: September 30, 2012, 10:25:30 AM »
Before closing this discussion I do want to say a word about the Obama Presidency that now appears will be rewarded with a second four year lease on the residence at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.  It is marked by a cautious determination to conclude the military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan begun by the previous Administration.  The Iraq operation is in fact scheduled for conclusion early in the coming New Year.   The administration seems on course to continue its policy through this term and the next though the prospects of a developing Iran armed with atomic warheads and long range delivery vehicles might test their resolve.  It will make for an interesting four years.

HaroldArnold

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #300 on: September 30, 2012, 10:30:03 AM »
I too feel rewarded by my reading of this book and participation in this discussion.  I certainly had not realized the ex-Presidents Association has become the National institution that it now is.  Also I had not realized how close the individual members from parties opposite formerly bitter political enemy’s now routing work together on such a variety of assignments.  

These conclusions are presented by the authors in the group of pictures that follow the final chapter.  All of these picture groups off ex-Presidents with caption describing a particular work project on which they were involved.  Taken as a whole these pictures really constitute a final Chapter.   

Thank you Ella for discovering this book and initiating this discussion.  And thank you each and everyone who posted.  I look forward to other book projects next year.    

bellamarie

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #301 on: September 30, 2012, 12:46:49 PM »
Harold
Quote
the Obama Presidency that now appears will be rewarded with a second four year lease on the residence at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Hmm...with the election 30 some days out, the polls are showing a dead heat, if you follow the most trusted polls.  I'm not ready to make a definitive outcome at this point.  I suspect all those who plan to vote are not ready to concede to one candidate or the other either. 

I am excited to watch Nov. 6th, regardless the outcome, because its history in the making! 



“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

PatH

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #302 on: September 30, 2012, 02:03:07 PM »
One of the more surprising aspects of the book was the alliances and enmities of the former presidents with sitting presidents and other former presidents.  They were often the opposite of what you would expect; former bitter enemies became good friends, former friends broke up, party lines were crossed freely.

PatH

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #303 on: September 30, 2012, 02:06:44 PM »
This was a really enjoyable discussion; I'm sorry I had to miss the middle of it.

I would never even have heard of this book if Ella hadn't found it and Ella and Harold hadn't discussed it.  Thank you both.

And thanks to my fellow discussers; you pointed out so many things I missed, and brought up so many points of view.

It was great.

mabel1015j

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #304 on: September 30, 2012, 09:45:51 PM »
I really enjoyed reading this book, my thanks also to Ella for finding it and to you and Harold for leading the discussion.

As i've said the info about the relationships was really interesting. I got to know their personalities in a way i didn't know about them before. I like complicated people and these guys are certainly complicated. The book reenforced my thinking that it is difficult for citizens to have any real idea about what leads to the decisions that presidents have to make. There is so much we are not aware of. The talking heads on tv act as though they know what is happening, i have a sense they only think they know what is happening. They act as though it is all so simple.

I was impressed w/ each one of them for at least one decision they made, even Geo Bush, who i may have been the least impressed with, put an enormous amt of money into fighting AIDS in Africa. If Obama had done nothing more than make the speech at the UN last week about child slavery and supported gay marriage, i would consider his first term a success, and oh yeah, gave the risky go ahead to Seal Team Six. I like his considered, thoughtfulness about issues.

Thanks everybody for your opinions and contributions, as always this has been a great discussion.

Jean

bellamarie

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #305 on: September 30, 2012, 11:25:00 PM »
Jean~
Quote
If Obama had done nothing more than make the speech at the UN last week about child slavery and supported gay marriage, i would consider his first term a success, and oh yeah, gave the risky go ahead to Seal Team Six. I like his considered, thoughtfulness about issues.

It seems our president likes taking credit for the go ahead to the Seal Team Six, which now we are hearing it was actually Hillary having to convince him, after he hesitated and almost lost the perfect timing.  Keep in mind, the architect for the entire plan was George W. before he left office.  Obama followed it to a letter.  One way Bush helped without being asked. 

His position on gay marriage just a few months earlier was actually against it, up until he realized he needed those who are for it, to vote for him.  His speech at the UN was deflecting the priorities, Iran getting a nuclear bomb, and Israel needing our support.  He speaks of child slavery, but is for partial birth abortion and late term abortion which are laws he voted for and passed while senator in Illinois.  He defends the rights of some,  yet not of the unborn or the baby who was  born due to a botched abortion.  I truly hope and pray Americans will hold his success, higher than his thoughtfulness about issues.  We have American embassies burning, and an Ambassador, two Navy Seals and his assistant dead.  Those are not talking points, they are a reality.   John Kerry and other democrats and republicans are demanding answers from him and Hillary, as to why there was no added protection for our embassies on 9-11-2012 when they were given information there was going to be planned attacks on them.  I hope it does not turn out to be his Watergate.

Next month's book The Temptest looks very interesting, but I will have to pass.  Hope to join in a new discussion soon. 

Ciao~

“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

mabel1015j

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #306 on: October 01, 2012, 05:01:02 PM »
As i said, this book reenforced my thinking that these questions and decisions are much more complicated than we have any idea. We, the public, have very few of the facts at the time events are happening and then much that we hear comes from idealogues. I like reading these books that have some perspective of years and many opinions of people involved.

JoanP

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  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #307 on: October 01, 2012, 05:27:11 PM »
Ella, Harold, so happy to have made it back before the door to this discussion was locked.  Nothing could have kept me away but a grandson's birthday celebration.  I didn't always agree with the differing points of view, but everyone was so amiable and polite - What a pleasure coming in to read your posts after a long car ride home!

The book revealed what a difficult, lonely job the Presidency really is. Sometimes the only people who can understand that are those who had a turn in the Oval Office before.  I came away wondering who would want the job...but that's another book, isn't it?

A big THANK YOU to  Ella, Harold and all of you who have been so generous sharing  your views.  Looking forward to the next adventure!

ps.  Harold, I'm with the others who believe it's not over until it's over. :D

Jonathan

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #308 on: October 02, 2012, 11:49:25 AM »
It has been very interesting to follow this discussion. To hear the views of the citizens regarding their political institutions and their leaders. The rest of the world looks on in wonder at how democracy works in America. One thing seems new. Presidents no longer need to retire into obscurity. They can still remain active, stay involved. We love to have your exes come to Canada and talk to us.

Naturally it's fun to make comparisons between presidential and monarchial systems of government. I thought the presidential pardon was a great way to end Nixon's caper of wrong doings. Pardon does imply guilt and public indignation seems satisfied. With a king it's: Off with his head! With a president, having been elected, it's natural to expect some understanding of the trials of public office.

HaroldArnold

  • Posts: 715
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #309 on: October 02, 2012, 12:19:53 PM »
Jonathan,  Thank you for your comment.  How about suggesting a non fiction title about the operation of the Canadian or other English derived Parliamentary system.  If you know of any post it on the Non Fiction board or send me and E-mail. (hhullar5@yahoo.com )