Author Topic: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online  (Read 150736 times)

JudeS

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #240 on: March 17, 2010, 03:53:43 PM »

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  everyone is welcome to join in.

 
The Book Thief -  March Bookclub Online
Everyone is invited to join in!
 

        "Fortunately, this book isn't about Death; it's about death, and so much else."    
"Some will argue that a book so difficult and sad may not be appropriate for teenage readers. "The Book Thief" was published for adults in Zusak's native Australia, and I strongly suspect it was written for adults. Many teenagers will find the story too slow to get going, which is a fair criticism. But it's the kind of book that can be life-changing, because without ever denying the essential amorality and randomness of the natural order, "The Book Thief" offers us a believable, hard-won hope.
The Book Thief is a complicated story of survival that will encourage its readers to think." (Bookmarks Magazine)

"How can a tale told by Death be mistaken for young-adult storytelling? Easily: because this book's narrator is sorry for what he has to do. The youthful sensibility of "The Book Thief" also contributes to a wider innocence. While it is set in Germany during World War II and is not immune to bloodshed, most of this story is figurative: it unfolds as symbolic or metaphorical abstraction.
"The Book Thief" will be widely read and admired because it tells a story in which books become treasures. And because there's no arguing with a sentiment like that." (New York Times)

Discussion Schedule:

March 1-2 ~ Prologue
March 3-7 ~ Part I & II (the gravedigger's handbook; the shoulder shrug)
March 8-14 ~ Part III & IV  (mein kampf; the standover man)
        March 15-21 ~ Part V & VI (the whistler; the dream carrier)                  
March 22-28 ~ Part VII & VIII (complete duden dictionary; the word shaker)
March 29-April 4 ~ Part IX & X (the last human stranger; the book thief)


Some Questions for Your Consideration

March 15-21 ~ Part V & VI  (the whistler; the dream carrier)


1. Will you  share with us some of the images and metaphors that captured your attention and made you pause while reading these two sections? 

2. Did Death spoil the story for you by revealing in advance "the three stupid things" that will be Rudy's downfall in two years' time?   Why do you think he did that?

3. Can you explain what was meant by "the seventh side of a die?"   How do you think Germany's invasion of Russia would affect the people on Himmel Street?  Do you detect a change?

4.  Can you forgive Liesel for the way she retaliated against the Mayor's wife? How can her anger be explained in the context of the growing tension between the poor and the upper class at this time?

5. What is it about the  the  second drawing in Max's book that  frightens Liesel? (p.280) What is he trying to express?
 
6.   Death  searches for beauty in Germany at this time, 1942.  Do you think he succeeded?  Is that what this book is all about?

7.  Who do you see as the "Whistler" in Liesel's stolen book?  What is it about this book that makes Liesel shiver when she reads it?  Whose book do you think it had belonged to?

8.  Do you believe the library window was left open on purpose?  Why did Liesel want to steal "The Dream Carrier"?   Do you remember what it was about?

9.  Max and Liesel dream often in these chapters.  Are they  premonitions?  What happened to Max in Liesel's dream? 

10.  Death's diary - Auschwitz, Mauthausen -  June 23, 1942  Your comments on Zusak's writing in this chapter? 
 

Relevant Links:
Readers' Guide Questions: Prologue; Parts I - IV ;   A Brief History of German Rule;    Dachau;    Mein Kampf;   The Book Thief Metaphors ~ Our Favorite Zusak expressions;
   
 
Discussion Leaders:  JoanP & Andy




Jude: I will be gone on vacation next  week to visit son and his family .
Though there is a computer we are usually so busy, or so tired after being busy that I know I won't get to the site for a week.
Looking forward to all your posts .
Auf Weidershein.

Frybabe

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #241 on: March 17, 2010, 06:31:22 PM »
Lee, I just received my copy of Sarah's Key. I am looking forward to reading it.


Have a nice vacation JudeS. We will miss your posts.

straudetwo

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #242 on: March 17, 2010, 06:47:46 PM »
Sorry I have fallen behind again -- Now a few random answers.

Countrymm,, your German friend is right.  Ration cards supposedly covered the dietary need, so many grams of bread, dairy products etc. etc.  but the grocery sores shelves were often empty.  No coffee, or cocoa, just some dreadful barley Ersatz. Even essentials, like potatoes, turnips and such were scarce.

The Russian campaign of the Nazis began in June if 1941.  Of course it affected every single one living in Germany, including the Polish and French prisoners taken in Hitler's expanding war. They, too, had to be fed!

Ella, I know that Margaret MacMillan has refuted the theory that the conditions of the Versailles Treaty in any way contributed to what happened later.  The conditions are detailed very clearly in her book Paris 1919, which we have discussed here (though four weeks were hardly enough to cover the subject).

Though I was not born until a few years after WW One I tend to believe that the punishment (MarMillan's word) imposed on Germany did provide a fertile ground for Hitler's ideology. It was no coincidence that he referred to the terms over and over and over again.

JoanP, people were hesitant at first (in 1933), but slowly they began to trust him because he did creatge jobs (building the highway system, the notorious Autobahnen, where everyone has long driven as fast as his/her Mercedes or BMW allows - no matter the consequences.
Here's a point that is iportant in my humble opinion:
According to the Versailles Treaty Germany was allowed one hundred thousand (100,000) men under arms.
After 1933, in total secrecy, Hitler started Germany's re-armament and systematically built up the army, navy and Luftwaffe.





straudetwo

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #243 on: March 17, 2010, 07:04:11 PM »
Continued.  I  had paused quickly to post two URLs but was lot successful. Nor were my repeated attempts, even though the links worked for me.  Anyone interested can glean all necessary information from the web, e.g. under German Rearmament.

Returning to my earlier post.
Hitler offered hope for a desperate generation of Germans, demoralized, jobless and hungry. He did more: he instilled pride.  As I look back on my childhood, from the time my family moved from the idyllic town by the Rhine to the industrial city of Mannheim, the prevailing feeling was despair. As in, where are we heading?

Beginning quite possibly well before 1933,  surely before anyone realized it, a propaganda machinery was all put in place.  It's not known when the actress Leni Riefenstahl, an excellent photographer, was hired  by Hitler to produce a documentary film for the first anniversary since his coming to power for the Nazi Party Convention in 1934. Triumph of the Will, it was called = (Triumpf des Willens). It is it is available  in all its frightening "glory" on the web with subtitles.   In the wake of that " triumph" of propaganda began the preparations for the Olympiad in Berlin in 1936, designed to be a showcase for the "new" Germany.

Hitler shook hands with the members of the all Aryan  (of course) team and  fully expected them all to ace. But one Jesse Owens was not in the script,  a black man, God help him. Not only was he a magnificent runner, he was gifted with a cheerful, forgiving nature. Hitler was not the only one who snubbed him, but he was ignored i this country, too. I've mentioned this in a previous post and don't wan t repeat it. Besides, it is on the web.

In 1936, our high school class had a personal interest in the coming Olympics : our gym teacher was a member of the Olympic rowing team.  We disliked him. He worked us relentlessly on the uneven bars and the other equipment.  We really tried, but he had no encouraging words word for any of us girls.  The point was that Sports had come to count as heavily  in our report cards as Latin, Math, physics and chemistry.
All this insufferable man earnedwas a fourth place in a team  event.  He quit soon thereafter, unlamented by us. He was succeeded by a female gym teacher. It became much easier for mothers to formulate a request that their daughter be excued once a month.

Back to the connection to the book. We are told the story begins in 1939 when Liesel was 9. That was 3 years after the Olympics.  What memory could she have had?  We don't even know where she was before she came to the Hubermanns.

As I've said before, Bavaria was and is predominantly Catholic.   There's no doubt that the Hubermanns were Catholics.  And if they had been found out about harboring a young Jewish man in the cellar, all of them, Liesel included, would have been in mortal danger. All of them.

Ann  and Ella, I agree that this book presents a view of the WW II in Europe, but I believe that it is hardly "from the German perspective".  As JoanP pointed out a while ago, what we have is a second-hand report by a now 35-year old Australian man, based on the stories he heard from his mother.  It is NOT the direct personal experiences of one who was there, lived there at that time. And the number of us is dwindling.

More tomorrow,  to Jude's posts aBout Germn authors who wrote about WW II, among them Günter Graß. There are more, for instance Heinrich Böll (19171985), Nobel Prixe winner in 1972.

JoanP

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #244 on: March 17, 2010, 07:11:37 PM »
Traudee, it is so good of you to share your memories with us, awful as they are for you to stir up again.  You are the judge of how much you can bear.  We are grateful for everything you can bring to us.  The one question that keeps coming up - at what point were you aware that things were not going well for the German army - and when did you start to consider that Hitler's grand plan might not succeed?

The children in the story were participating in the Youth Groups, their youth leaders confident in their Fuhrer.  They were hungry yes, rations were useless if the shelves were bare (as you describe) - but did you note fear - that Germany's enemies might actually bring the war with Russia, the bombing to your homeland?  I guess I'm asking, did the realization that Germany might not be successful under Hitler come in June, 1941 - or were you aware things weren't going well before that?
In the book, it was at this time that the German soldiers came to Himmel St. to establish bomb shelters.
It had to have been a nightmare for the people.

Some of you who were not surprised at Hans'  immediate decision to hide his friend's Jewish son in his basement.  Traudee, in a previous post described how this would have been the ultimate risk to his family - they would all have been hanged or beheaded.  Hans doesn't seem to have any hesitation.  Do you suppose he doesn't know the risk, the danger in which he is putting his family?

Jude, you will be missed.  You notice the details - like the seven sided die.  I understand what you're saying about computer time when you're on grandma time.  Pack your book - we'll look forward to your return next week.

JoanP

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #245 on: March 17, 2010, 07:13:10 PM »

TRlee, welcome back. Yes, Hans is a gentle foster dad, I agree with you.  He seems more like a father to Liesel - since the very first days, don't you think?  I guess I don't understand how he and Rosa lost communication with their own two children.  Liesel and Max seem more like their own natural children, don't they?

Laura
, I find myself looking upon Death as one with supernatural powers, including omniscience - the ability to know the future - like God, I guess.  I confuse these two because I'm not used to viewing Death as a character - with human traits.

Quote
"We all know that we are all going to die but (for good or ill) we're able to suppress the fact and live on."  Marcie

I've been thinking about this, Marcie.  Do you think there's a difference between knowing that one is going to die someday or to know the exact time?  Do you suppose Rudy considers he might die in this war?  Liesel?  Max?  Do you think that what Death is saying here is that of all the children, it is only  Rudy  is marked for death during the war?

PatH

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #246 on: March 17, 2010, 09:51:27 PM »
Can't find the quote now, but someone remarked on my interest in many-sided dice.  Interest in polyhedra is in my genes.  I see you can still buy my father's work on Descartes' work on polyhedra from Amazon.com.

http://www.amazon.com/Descartes-Polyhedra-solidorum-elementis-Mathematics/dp/0387907602

Anyway, I grew up in a family where that was a normal sort of thing to think about.

PatH

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #247 on: March 17, 2010, 11:01:18 PM »
Traude, I'm glad you mentioned Leni Riefenstahl.  She has an awful fascination for me, at once so horrible and so effective.  I've watched "Triumph of the Will", and it's a masterpiece of propaganda.  Especially the part "Ein Volk ein Land" (one people, one country) where she has idealized faces of different people--"I'm from Friesland" "I'm from Bavaria", etc, ending up with "ein Volk ein Land", we're all part of glorious Germany.  She later tried to claim innocence of Hitler's policies, but the most charitable interpretation (still pretty damning) is that she didn't care squat about anyone's policies as long as she could make films.

I don't think she had a prejudice against blacks, though.  She didn't care what color your skin was as long as your body was photogenic.  Jesse Owens gets full treatment in "Olympia", and in the 70s she published "The Last of the Nuba", a book of loving photographs of an African tribe.

In her seventies, she took up underwater photography, lying about her age by 20 years in order to get scuba diving certification.

She died in 2003, age 101, unrepentant to the end.

Babi

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #248 on: March 18, 2010, 09:18:40 AM »
 JOANP, I definitely don't want to think that Death knows in advance when
everyone will die. I prefer to believe this story is being told after the
event.  Perhaps the best explanation of why Rudy's death is foretold is
the one you gave. The author does give me the impression that Death cares.

 I was intrigued by the 'six-sided' dice, and I found there is such a
thing. "I Ching dice such as:
     Eight-sided dice bearing the eight trigrams
     Six-sided dice bearing yin and yang twice each, and old yin and
 old yang once each."
  It seems to me the author is hinting here at the yin-yang balance of
opposing forces in this story. Dungeons and Dragons wasn't invented yet,
so if that was the author's reference it's misplaced.

Quote
In this case, I feel he put Rosa and Hans together to demonstrate to his
 readers that it might take both softness and caring (Hans) as well as
toughness and hardness (Rosa) to survive a harrowing revolution.

COUNTRYMM, I like that insight and I think you're right.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

Frybabe

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #249 on: March 18, 2010, 01:50:17 PM »
Traude:  FYI, I left a message over in the Library discussion for you.

straudetwo

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #250 on: March 18, 2010, 08:47:01 PM »
Frybabe, thank you.  Will post there.

JoanP

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #251 on: March 18, 2010, 09:51:13 PM »
Babi, I think we've established that Death is telling us this story of an event that happened in the past.  When he let it slip that Rudy died, (from a bombing attack, wasn't it?) - it was because his heart was broken at the thought of it.  I'm hoping it this means that Liesel survived at least.

But Max, what hope is there for Max?  Do the Hubermann's believe that Max will be able to wait out the war in their basement and then....?  Traudee has explained that the penalty for harboring a Jew was death - for the entire family. Do you know of any Jews who survived the war because a neighbor risked all to protect them?  Like Max?  In Germany?  What if Germany had been successful?  What would Max's life have been like in post-war Nazi Germany?  Or would the war have gone on and on and on...?

Liesel happened to see a drawing in one of Max's notebooks that frightened her - He intends to give this notebook to Liesel someday "when all this nonsense is over."  Looking at Max's drawing, what do you think he means to say?  How did you understand it? The very thought of Germany winning the war scares me too.  I don't think I've given that much thought before...


ps PatH - this is your papa? F.J.Fedrico

JoanK

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #252 on: March 18, 2010, 10:11:35 PM »
JOANP: yes, that's him. P J (think Pat and Joan). We didn't know he was on Wikepedia, until Pat found the article.

It's accurate, except he was never the "head" of the Patent Office. He held a high non-political position.

JoanP

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #253 on: March 18, 2010, 10:19:04 PM »
PJ...Pat and Joan.  Cute  :D

"... testimony was later quoted by the United States Supreme Court when the Court held in 1980 that living organisms were proper subject matter for patents."  Do you remember what  "living organisms" this case was about?

What do you think?  Will Max survive long enough in hiding to see the end of the war?  Everything in me wants to believe he will, but...

straudetwo

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #254 on: March 18, 2010, 10:23:48 PM »
PatH,  before Leni Riefenstahl produced "Triumph of the Will" for the Nazi Party Convention in 1934, she had done an earlier documentary for the Nazi Party Convention of 1933, titled "Victory of Faith" (Der Sieg des Glaubens).  It too is on the web - I just checked, briefly. The first few frames sickened me and I could not go on.

JoanP,  you asked whether the German continued to believe the promises of "final victory" = Endsieg.  They did - at least until the Russian campaign.

In June of 1941 the German  army invaded Soviet Russia and advanced rapidly.  The Russians drew back, luring the Germans to move forward.  It was the same strategy that was used against Napoleon in 1812 .   Both invasions were of historic importance for Europe,  both were disasters. The battle of Stalingrad was one of the bloodiest of the war and one of the longest.  It was also the beginning of he end.

The balance of power began to shift when the U.S. entered the war in Europe (in June of 1942).  Th people at home were starving; the bombing of major cities intensified.  And still the people plodded on.
Then came the Allied invasion in Normandy.  It inspired a (second) plot to assassinate Hitler.  Claus Count von Stauffenberg carried it out on July 21, 1944. Hitler was wounded in the arm and survived.  Count Stauffenberg was shot by a firing squad. Tom Cruise played him in a recent movie. (I did not see it.)

marcie

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #255 on: March 19, 2010, 10:57:08 AM »
JoanP, I think that Max meant his drawing to be ironic ( of two people on top of dead bodies saying "isn't it a lovely day" with the Nazi sun shining). The people were not supposed to criticize or think for themselves...just say Heil Hitler... and believe that everything being done was for the good of Germany.

PatH

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #256 on: March 19, 2010, 11:09:31 AM »
Poor Hans Hubermann has become trapped by his own goodness.  When he first got Max's appeal, he knew he had to help, as an honorable man.  He owed his life to Max's father, and he had made a promise.  He agonized about it though, knowing how dangerous it was.  Now he's stuck in a situation growing more and more impossible as food gets scarcer and they have more and more narrow escapes.  It's kind of the opposite of the slippery slope of evil, where the first minor bad action starts the process and you get in deeper and deeper--a sort of slippery slope of good.  He never wavers, though.

Rosa seems to support him completely.  She may be foul-mouthed and harsh, but she knows what's right.

I agree with Traude that the chances of actually getting away with something like this are pretty small.  The townspeople didn't like the Hubermanns, and were suspicious of anyone they thought might be disloyal.  It would only take a tiny hint of a clue for them to be caught.

PatH

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #257 on: March 19, 2010, 11:20:25 AM »
"... testimony was later quoted by the United States Supreme Court when the Court held in 1980 that living organisms were proper subject matter for patents."  Do you remember what  "living organisms" this case was about?
It was a microorganism.  Don't quote me--it's been 30 years--but as I remember, it had been engineered to eat oil spills.  Dad was already retired and sick by then, but I went with him to watch when the case was argued.  I didn't get to sit with him and the other lawyers, but I had a very good seat--the inventor was just a row away.  In spite of having lived here so long, that was the only time I've watched the Supreme Court in session.  It was pretty impressive.

ALF43

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #258 on: March 19, 2010, 02:00:23 PM »
Death witnesses the "homeless" everywhere but as PatH says Hans trapped by his own goodness keeps Max safe for a while longer.
As the bodies add up, Death becomes more personal to us a HE begins to complain when someone begs to go along with him. "Don't you see I've already got enought on my plate?"

In the Abridged Roll Call for 1942
#1.  The desperate Jews- theri spirtits in my lap as we sat on the roof, next to the steaming chimneys.
Does that literally turn your stomach to visualize their desolation and despair while withnessing the smoketacks spewing?

Marcie- so true, Max was showing the flip side of what life could or should be like.
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

Laura

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #259 on: March 19, 2010, 02:34:59 PM »
I think Max’s drawing represents he and Liesel, enjoying a lovely day together despite the Nazi rule and the loved ones they lost.  It represents hope of survival.

Alternatively, I think Max’s drawing could represent a lovely day in the Nazi world --- sharing a partly sunny day with your significant other, a person of superior race like yourself, while the undesirable people have been eliminated.

Being optimistic, I hope that Leisel, Max, and the Hubermanns all survive the war, but I think the author could have it go either way at this point.

Laura

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #260 on: March 19, 2010, 02:40:41 PM »
In the Abridged Roll Call for 1942
#1.  The desperate Jews- their spirtits in my lap as we sat on the roof, next to the steaming chimneys.
Does that literally turn your stomach to visualize their desolation and despair while witnessing the smokestacks spewing?


This image is horrible, but when coupled with the other two items in the roll call, I wondered how death could even survive.  The emotional toll would be overwhelming.

ALF43

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #261 on: March 19, 2010, 03:02:24 PM »
Oh Laura- so true!  He (death) says that gives us an ashen taste in our mouths that defined his existence during that year.  Ashen indeed!

Yet, he also tells us that there is death; making his way through all of it.  On the surface: unflappable, unwavering.
Every time I read that, I have to take pause.  It catches my breath.
He just makes it so personal to all of us as it has been to Traudee and thousands of others.   He says that war is like a new boss who expects the impossible and to just "get it done."  No thanks, just expectations to get it done as he asks for more.
 :'(Terrible cruelty!
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

countrymm

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #262 on: March 19, 2010, 04:36:18 PM »
I've been noticing that abandonment and guilt are two of the author's themes. Liesel has been abandoned by her mother. Has anyone else abandoned her?

Hans feels guilty about hiding Max in the basement. Who else in the book experiences guilt...and why?

We know the author uses a lot of foreshadowing, usually via the character Death.  Some of you have been bothered by Death revealing facts about the future.  Why do you think Zusak uses foreshadowing?   Is it to pull the reader into the book?

How about irony?  What examples of irony do you see in "The Book Thief"?

JoanP

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #263 on: March 19, 2010, 06:38:54 PM »
Countrymm, you focus on the big themes - guilt and abandonment.  These two are intricately connected, aren't they?  The survivors must live with that guilt always, I'm afraid.  PatH mentions Hans, the man who stands out  for his valor and integrity, and yet he too is consumed with guilt for putting his family into this precarious position.

I see the foreshadowing you mention in the dreams - Liesel and Max have nightmares almost nightly it seems -  It seemed to help when they were able to share their dreams.   Liesel dreams that Max will die when he was sick all that time. I don[t think she shared that with him, but she did leave that tear on his cheek.  I was sure he was dying, weren't
you?  Didn't you get the feeling that he had lost his will to live? And if he had died?  Were you wondering what they would do with his corpse?  Bur somehow, he survives.  How? Was it Liesel who saved him with her presents and stories?  Is that what we are to believe happened?

Countrymm asks what the author achieves by revealing what will happen in the future?  What effect did this have on the rest of you?  (I know some of you just had to give in and read to the end of the book! ;))

straudetwo

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #264 on: March 19, 2010, 07:01:32 PM »
May I mention one book which deserves mention IMHO.  It was not[/b] written from a German perspective, and by an American, one who was there.

The book is Slaughterhouse Five,  or The Children's Crusade : A Duty-Dance with Death, , published 1969,  a powerful anti-war science fiction novel byKurt Vonnegut, Jr, (Breakfast of Champions, Cat's Cradle.)

The book features an exhausted, fatalistic American soldier, captured by the Germans during the Battle of the Bulge and imprisoned in Dresden, where he lived trough and survived the fire-bombing of what was once known as "the Florence of Germany".  It happened between February 13 and 15, 1945. It  was Vonnegut's own experience. The book is unforgettable.

Incidentally, the German word for "Intelligence" was" Abwehr = counter espionage.
Jude mentioned the Stasi.   Indeed, it existed, but was created  after the war.   Please let me explain.

In 1945, Germany was divided into four zones  occupied,  respectively, by the British,  the French, the U.S. and Russia  - which held the entire East.  The capital,  Berlin, located in the middle of the Soviet zone, was, in turn, divided into four sectors
 
When, sixty years ago,  the Soviets blocked off all rail and road supply lines to the city of Berlin, the U.S. established the famous Berlin Airlift  (=Luftbrücke) and flew in  food for the Berliners.  An courageous, unforgettsable act of heroism.

Russia sealed all its borders and established checkpoints at road and rail crossings. (I witnessed only the latter.) Armed soldiers with attack dogs patrolled up and down the platform   -- until every passenger trying to enter East Germany had been "inspected" and shown his papers.  An East German visa  in had to be secured  beforehand. No western newspapers or magazines were allowed in, and no  West-Mark.

The Soviets printed yheir own money, paper and coins,  the "Ostmark", which was negotiable only in East Germany. and had no value anywhere else. They also had their own postal service and rail system, such as it was.  
On arrival, visitors had to "sign in" at the police station and indicate where and how long they would be staying.  So much per person per diem had to be paid in advance - and I can't remember how we accomplished that - given the fact that we could  nott bring in any western money.

Before leaving, we had to "sign out" at the police station.  The control on the way out was harsher and took much longer - though only East Geran retirees were allowed out.  The atmosphere in the compartment was tense. The door to the corridor had to remain closed. Nobody was allowed to leave their seat.
On my second trip back in the company of my daughter and son,  we heard a commotion, a woman crying, dogs barking furiously. We saw nothing.  
Only when we heard the sound of the electric engine being reconnected did we relax.



The German government of East Germany ruled at the pleasure of the Russians. The secret police (for the "security of the state" (= Staats-sicherheits-dienst) had many spies, some of them in the Government of West Germany (!).  It became known as "Stasi" and was operative until the curtain fell.
Since then, prominent East Geman writers were fond to have spied for the Stasi.  There have been other such  scandalous revelations that rocked West Germany.

JoanP

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #265 on: March 19, 2010, 07:07:17 PM »
The other question from Countrymm - "How about irony?  What examples of irony do you see in The Book Thief?"

Hmmm, sounds like an essay question and I fear I'd flunk this question. Marcie interpreted Max's "lovely day"  drawing as irony - "sharing the day with a person of superior race like yourself, while the undesirable people have been eliminated."
It wouldn't be the first time I missed the irony in this book.  I was trying to imagine a future for Max - post war, as you did, Laura.  Max and Liesel standing in the sun after the war, as survivors in Nazi Germany.  That's not really a possibility, is it?  Max has no future, unless the Hubermann's can survive the war, hiding Max in the basement  - until liberation.  But there will be no lovely day for them under that nazi flag.  So why did he draw it for Liesel?

Laura, I think that Zusak's writing is the only thing that keeps my stomach from churning when he describes the spewing smokestacks. When he writes -  "For Death, the sky was the color of Jews" I feel I've been shocked, smacked in the face with the reality of what went on inside... and then as if to soften that blow, we see  Death himself, "picking up each soul as delicately as if each were newly born, even kissed a few."

Andy says this writing  makes her stop to catch her breath.  I think she's speaking for most of us.
But then comes another Zusak zinger...  
"... above the grey clouds - the sun was blond and the endless atmosphere was a giant blue eye."

JoanP

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #266 on: March 19, 2010, 07:14:50 PM »
Traudee, oh dear, we were posting at the same time.  Certainly I did not mean to ignore your thoughtful post.  We are learning so much from your accounts.  You lived this periiod of history.  Your homeland, your family, your lives were shattered.  We hold you and your memories dear.  Thank you!

straudetwo

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #267 on: March 19, 2010, 07:21:51 PM »
JoanP, just saw your post.  I've worked on mine for so long that I was timed out.  
'There were many fires, death was busy on many fronts. We only have one life, one death. Dare we hope Death is neutral?

Just found this

http://www.rense.com/general19/flame.htm
 

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #268 on: March 19, 2010, 08:44:20 PM »
TRAUDEE, does one really know the truth of history?  Is some of it propaganda and some of it very true - the viewpoint of those who lived through, for example, the bombing of Dresden?  Of course, it was terrible.  As was the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasake,  as is all of it - war itself.

I have had the belief that  the bombing of Dresden was to demoralize the German people once and for all.  Here is an article about the bombing of the city.

Wikipedia:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

There are many more.  But most historians discount the number of deaths from the bombing;  even the German (who always kept wonderful records as you know) place the figure at around 22,000. 

JOANP:  I will get back to the book, but because of my interest in history, and WWII particularly (I was in high school during that war), I wanted to commet.


countrymm

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #269 on: March 19, 2010, 09:57:45 PM »
ftp://I think Max drew that picture for Liesel just to show what he was hoping for. He liked the picture because it gave him courage and would give her courage when she looked at it in the future.

countrymm

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #270 on: March 19, 2010, 10:14:12 PM »
IRONY
Don't you think it's ironic that Max carries a copy of Hitler's "Mein Kampf" on his way to Hans Hubermann, only because it protects him from German soldiers?

There is something ironic going on with Liesel and books.  It seems ironic to me that she joyously learns to read by salvaging a copy of "The Grave Digger's Manual".  What a solemn, dark book to introduce her to her love of reading. In fact, aren't all 3 of her stolen books pretty grim?

GUILT
Max feels very guilty about leaving his family behind.
Liesel's biological mother feels guilty about leaving Liesel behind, but does it to protect her.
Liesel feels guilty about stealing books but then decides it's a small price to pay for such pleasure. :)

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #271 on: March 20, 2010, 10:39:02 AM »
Countrymm, I thought the same thing about the Grave Diggers Manual.  A young girl learning to read from such a book, a manual, a solemn, serious book, nothing joyous about it!  My only conclusion was that she loved having her Papa, Hans, close to her for comfort and, therefore, learned to read the words to keep him there.

The book I remember first learning to read, before I ever went to school, was something about a rabbit stealing peas from a farmer's garden.  Funny, that I have never forgotten that.

I think we have mentioned the guilt of Hans hiding Max in the basement, knowing he was putting the whole family in grave danger.

Suffice it to say that such a loving father as Hans is to Liesel, his own children's attitude leaves me stupified.

DEATH is telling all of this story?  Or just the part that relates to it/him/her.   Being for the most part a nonfiction reader, this storytelling by Death is leaving me confused.

JoanP

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #272 on: March 20, 2010, 12:19:06 PM »
Reading the link to the Dresden bombing brought tears to my eyes, Traudee.  Of course it was horrible, every incident of the suffering and death of innocents is repulsive.  War is repulsive. War is the color of DEATH.  I knew that Kurt Vonnegut had written Slaughterhouse Five, but did not realize that he himself was in Dresden at the time.  He was one of a group of American prisoners of war to survive the attack in an underground slaughterhouse meat locker used by the Germans as an ad hoc detention facility.

The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki both unspeakable.  I've  understood the Japanese intended to fight on, regardless of loss.  The purpose of those bombings  was to bring the war to an end.  It worked.  It took total devastation, but it worked.
 
Hiroshima today - 65 years after the bombing!  I thought you might be interested

Rebuilding Dresden has taken longer - I've read it was 85% destroyed - rebuilding didn't really begin until 1990  - because of communist  occupation - read about it German study on the death number in Dresden attack. (photos, then and now)

But what of Munich?  I've read conflicting reports - one said that Olching, outside of Munich - in Zasuk's story Olching=Molching - was not bombed at all.  I question that.  But Munich was never devastated by a single attack, but rather repeated bombinbs, hundreds of bombings.  THe city was methodically rebuilt, using preWWII photos of the city.

Ella, please continue to read this story with the eye of an historian.  We are looking forward to your upcoming discussion of the Troubled Young Men - and learning more about Churchill the man, and perhaps his thinking on WWII tactics.

"DEATH is telling all of this story?"   How would the rest of you respond to Ella's question?  That's the way it began, but do you see a change of narrators as the story progresses?

Ella - your first story memory sounds like Peter Cottontail.


PatH

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #273 on: March 20, 2010, 12:22:06 PM »
DEATH is telling all of this story?  Or just the part that relates to it/him/her.   Being for the most part a nonfiction reader, this storytelling by Death is leaving me confused.
I think Death is telling it all except things like "The Standover Man", written by Max.

You should be a Science Fiction fan, Ella  ;).  Death is a recurring character in Terry Pratchett--a humorous one; Pratchett can skewer some very grim things with his humor.  Piers Anthony wrote a book told from Death's point of view too.

Although "Slaughterhouse Five", is a vivid first-hand description of the Dresden fire-bombing, it's also surreal science fiction, told in a disjointed time frame, jumping back and forth from present to past to future, with the narrator knowing it all at once, including his eventual capture by aliens.  That sounds pretty goofy, but it's a powerful and moving book.

JoanP

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #274 on: March 20, 2010, 12:47:21 PM »
Thanks, PatH - I'm looking at The Book Thief  like science fiction, are you?  It seem to take on the surreal quality as soon as we learned the narrator was Death, a character with human traits.

Countrymm, I'm trying hard to believe Max drew the picture to make Liesel feel better.  That someday she will enjoy a lovely day after all the war and destruction is over.  Somehow I can't get past viewing those bodies as piles of dead Jewish corpses sacrificed for the Nazi cause.

Irony, yes - you're right,  Every single book is totally inappropriate for a young girl - beginning with the Gravedigger's Manual. Inappropriate, and yet appropriate for the story.  The Whistler - clearly Hitler, happily whistling the tune of Deutchland Uber Alles as he murders his victims. I'm wondering what Ilsa Hermann is doing with these books in her library.  Her husband, the high-ranking Nazi -
She is clearly inviting Liesel to take these books- by leaving her window open. She KNOWS Liesel is the Book Thief and wants her to have these books.
Grim stories for a young girl, yes - but Liesel is growing up in grim times.  I had been wondering why Ilsa chose Liesel, but perhaps Liesel is the only young person who had the nerve, or the interest to come in her door.


Ella Gibbons

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #275 on: March 20, 2010, 01:21:45 PM »
Science fiction?  Maybe that is why I had trouble reading the book, I've never had an interest in science fiction.  I can under-stand the author using a clever (IMO) tactic to tell a story, but also I think there is a very grim reality to most of the circumstances in the book; although, of course, the characters are fictitious.

It all could have happened.  Definitely the JEws being marched to concentration camps, whether it was in Munich or not doesn't matter.  But the rations, the fear, the bombing all was based on fact, on the author's mother's experiences, certainly??????????

So what you are saying, PATH and JOANP, is the fact that the narrator telling the story is science fiction and the reader has to separate the two facets of the book?

PatH

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #276 on: March 20, 2010, 03:24:27 PM »
I wouldn't quite call the book science fiction, but it does use some of the same techniques, and if you're used to sci-fi you're comfortable with that.  Yes, everything that's happened so far (except for Death himself) could have really happened or did really happen.

Sci-fi is often used very effectively to comment on grim reality.  By taking a different viewpoint, or changing some assumptions, you can skewer our world very nicely.

Frybabe

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #277 on: March 20, 2010, 03:44:50 PM »
I had no idea that Slaughterhouse Five was about the Dresden bombings or that it was considered SciFi. The title put me off. I thought it was referring to some crime/criminal bunch, convicts or something like the Chicago Seven - violent protesters. Never looked into it.

PatH

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #278 on: March 20, 2010, 06:14:00 PM »
Vonnegut, the prisoner of war, survived the firebombing because he and some of his fellows had been shoved into an underground meat locker connected with a slaughterhouse, the slaughterhouse five of the title.  Imagine coming out of there and having to clean up the aftereffects.  Most of his writing during a long career (he died in '07, active to the end) is colored by this experience.

It's odd how some atrocities get more or less press than others.  Dresden didn't really have any military point.  We should be more condemning than we are.

PatH

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Re: Book Thief by Markus Zusak ~ March Book Club Online
« Reply #279 on: March 20, 2010, 06:27:33 PM »
I don't believe Max drew the picture to make Liesl feel better--he didn't even mean her to see it until later.  I think it's an extremely bitter comment on what Hitler is doing and his wonderful new world.  Here is a couple holding hands, saying "isn't it a lovely day", but they're not standing on ground, they're standing on a pile of corpses, and the sun isn't a sun, it's a swastika.  It's all a sham of peace, built on lies and horror.