Talking Heads ~ Expectations for retirement living with author Bruce Frankel

[pedln]

Talking Heads #10
A  forum for opinions on anything in print: magazines, newspaper articles, online: bring your ideas and let's discuss.

"Choices – For the Rest of Your Life?"

We are fortunate to have Bruce Frankel as our guest  in this month's Talking Heads discussion.  Bruce is  the author of  "What Should I Do With the Rest of My Life?" in which he presents us with more than a dozen profiles of individuals he calls "ordinary people who embraced new possibilities late in life - extraordinary late bloomers who have overthrown the usual expectations of age." Profiled in the book is one of SeniorLearn's  own Discussion Leaders,  Robby Iadeluca, a practicing clinical psychologist, who still conducts a full schedule of therapy sessions, five days a week at the age of 90! A Review of  Bruce's book; Amazon link Our questions for Bruce as we consider these profiles: - Are these ordinary people like you and me...or do they possess extraordinary talent, wealth or physical fitness? - What inspiration can we take from his research today?

Thanks for joining us, Bruce!  We're looking forward to hearing your words of acquired wisdom!

*******************************************************************************

On the other side of the issue, ..."Gerontologists tend to think of successful aging as taking advantage of what potential there is, staying as socially and intellectually engaged as possible. Our culture tends to measure it more in terms of how active people are."

"Part of the pressure on older people to be successful and give back and volunteer and be active and play tennis is that we are a culture of doing. We don't really know how to be. That's something that late life gives us, is time to be. But that's stigmatized." "Turn 70.Act Your Grandchild’s Age"  Kate Zernike, NY Times
 
1. Are goals and expectations necessary for our “second life?”
2. What is ageism?  Outside of public policy decisions (i.e. Social Security, medicare, etc.) should age be a consideration?
3.  Whose Second Lives do you celebrate?
4. Do you or did you look forward to life after 65?
5. Did you have any specials plans.

  Your opinion?  Let's discuss!

Check out Bruce's Website and Blog!

[pedln]

Bruce-in-the-waiting-room -- either you or your mother be sure to ask if the pacemaker is the same or did they put in a new one.  I had my battery changed about three years ago (after 10 years of good use), but didn't know until much later that they had also replaced the pacemaker -- and I was awake the whole time!  I think the company sent me info.

Best regards to your mother.  I'm sure she's glad this is over and done with for a long time.

[mabel1015j]

That has got to be the only poem written about a vacuum cleaner!.....lol.

My sister celebrated her 84th birthday recently and she said to me that she never expected to live this long,(although our parents both lived into their 80's, the previous generations and my parents siblings mostly passed away in their 70's). But she grew up on a farm and lived on a dairy farm until her 60's and then had a house w/ a large garden. I said to her that she had all those great fresh fruits and vegetables all her life, maybe they helped. But she has also been very active in her church and in the community. Our hometown has a huge community fair every summer and until 2 yrs ago she was responsible for the arts and crafts display and competition which had hundreds of entrants. She still spends one day a week "supervising" and setting up. She's still an excellent driver and drives all over the area, which is mostly rural. She's continued to be active w/ her children, grandchildren and grt-grands, attending all their sports events and babysitting as needed.

I'm just about to be 69 and i'm hoping that i have that same gene pool, altho i've had more health problems already than she has had and havenot been as physically active as an adult as she has been her whole life. I didn't spend as much time on the farm, but as Bruce has commented, i think there is a lot to be said for the lessons learned in a farm family.

One of the first truths that i figured out, many yrs ago,  was that there was more equality among the sexes and among the children and adults in a farm family - everyone has to do their job, or the family suffers economically and therefore psychically. So rational men recognized how important their wives and the women and children in their family were to them and treated them as such. There are many strong, smart women in my family, altho i didn't realize that until i was well into my adult yrs. My Mother and her older sister both attended the local college in the first 2 decades of the 20th century and therefore had "careers" of their own. Of course, at the time by local law, my mother had to quite teaching when she got married, which she would have probably done any way being a farm owner.

I've been thinking a lot about that generation during these hot days of summer - all those clothes they wore. My Mother NEVER was w/out stockings, even when she went into the garden to work - she never wore slacks. But they were w/out air conditioning or even electric fans.............whewww, that must have hardened them.........lol.......

I liked the music Bruce................and i'll be looking forward to the Million Dollar Quartet coming to Philly...............jean

[pedln]

Bruce, The Vacuum Cleaner really brought pictures to mind.  My parents’ home had a small low cupboard under the stairs that would never hold an upright.  It surely must have been made for the electrolux.

Lucy, I really liked hearing about your friend, Sally Gordon     One of the questions in the heading asks “Whose second lives do you celebrate.  And she certainly has had many.

I read something the other night that I think fits in well with this discussion.  It’s from my f2f group’s selection for next month, The Songcatcher by Sharyn McCrumb.  A Carolina innkeeper  near the Appalachian Trail is shelling peas and talking with one of his guests  .. …  …

“There’s a serenity about the whole mechanical process of opening pea pods, you know?  I was watching the butterflies a little while ago, and I thought:  They know what it’s like to be inside a pod, only no one helps them break out.  They have to do it on their own.  Now, with people, some folks break out on their own pods, and some have to be broken out by others, but it doesn’t matter which way you’re set free.  The important thing is that you emerge --  get out there into the great world and seek your destiny.”

And from today NY Times, an article about another second life, or maybe just an extension of the first.  Bruce, I’ll bet you probably already know her.

Out of the Loss of a Garden, Another Life Lesson

[brucefrankel]

 First, all went well in the hospital today. My mother's doing fine. They kept her overnight for observation, but she was in great spirits after the procedure. I do not believe, PedIn, that they replaced the pacemaker, but I'll double check tomorrow. Thank you for the heads up. The doctor said he put a bigger battery in and changed the lead. My mother was all smiles this afternoon, and already talking about going back to Curves and starting some sort of re-training regimen. Psychologically, I think it's a huge relief to have this behind her.

Jean, I love your message about your sister and the various advantages -- and disadvantages -- of growing up on a farm. You noted something that I have thought a lot about: how the interdependency of farm life seems to teach communtarian values and foster some equality of the sexes, though I am sure that was very much a function of the particular family and culture. I hate to get sucked into romantacizing what probably wasn't so perfect. But, at least among the women I interviewed for the book who grew up on farms, there did seem to be both a sense of balance and a belief in themselves that was a direct result of having had real responsibilities to the family, the farm, and, by extension, the larger world.

Barbara Smith, of HGRM, also grew up on a farm, near Ogdensburg, NY. As I note in the book, she came from a large family that  struggled on the Kelly family farm through the Depression. Barbara was valedictorian of her high school class, but almost didn't go to college. From the beginning, it seemed to me that the values of farm life contributed, half a century later, to the creation of HGRM. Rural life has been in decline for more than a century now; electrification (bright lights, big city) hastened it, as did industrialization the move to cities. And family farms continue to disappear. One of the sadder moments of writing the book,occurred when Loretta's son, Mike, had to auction off his cows and the reality that a family's way of living, an occupation that reached back to Loretta's Scottish ancestors who first settled the area where she grew up. I know this is not a novel thought, but I often find myself wondering about all that has been lost and how it ripples out and, even unnoticed, takes something back from all of us.

[Lucylibr]

I met Sally Gordon in a weight loss group many years ago in Lincoln, Nebraska, where she still lives. She was not particularly well known at that time except for being in fashion shows which included clothing for older women.  She had never been very overweight but has lost weight as she aged.  I remember when she turned 80 and I planned a small party for her in a local restaurant, and then we held one for me when I turned 50. Now Sally is quite famous and handles her fame with grace and dignity.  She is pleased to be recognized but her happiness does not depend on other peoples' opinions..

[ANNIE]

Bruce,
Sounds like your mom is really doing well and getting on with her life.  Its been my impression that when a pacemaker is replaced, the whole unit is replaced.


Pedl'n,
That article in the Times was very interesting.  Without all the volunteers and her advance on her book, she wouldn't have been able to save her lovely garden.  I want to get her book for a gardening friend for Christmas.
Also, what a wonderful quote from Sharon McCrumb's "Songcatcher".  Its so true!

[ANNIE]

I hope this isn't too long.  It gave me a good laugh.  Enjoy!

$5.37!  That's what the kid behind the counter at Taco Bell said to me.
I dug  into my pocket and pulled out some lint and two dimes and something that used to be a Jolly Rancher. Having already handed the kid a five-spot, I started to head back out to the truck to grab some change when the kid with the Elmo hairdo said the harshest thing anyone has ever said to me. He said, "It's OK. I'll just give you the senior citizen discount."

I turned  to see who he was talking to and then heard the sound of change hitting the  counter in front of me. "Only $4.68" he said cheerfully.

I stood there stupefied. I am 58, not even 60 yet!!! A mere child!  Senior citizen?

I took my burrito and walked out to the truck wondering what was wrong with Elmo. Was he blind? As I sat in the truck, my blood began to boil.  Old?  Me?

I'll show him, I thought. I opened the door and headed  back inside. I strode to the counter, and there he was waiting with a smile.

Before I could say a word, he held up something and jingled it  in front of me, like I could be that easily distracted! What am I now? A  toddler?

"Dude! Can't get too far without your car keys, eh" ? I  stared with utter disdain at the keys. I began to rationalize in my mind. 

"Leaving keys behind hardly makes a man elderly! It could happen to anyone!"

I turned and headed back to the truck. I slipped the key into the ignition, but it wouldn't turn. What now? I checked my keys and tried another. Still nothing.

That's when I noticed the purple beads hanging from my rear view mirror.
I had no purple beads hanging from my rear view mirror.

Then, a few other objects came into focus. The car seat in the back seat. Happy Meal toys spread all over the floorboard. A  partially eaten doughnut on the dashboard.

Faster than you can say ginkgo biloba, I flew out of the alien vehicle.

Moments later I was  speeding out of the parking lot, relieved to finally be leaving this nightmarish stop in my life. That is when I felt it, deep in the bowels of  my stomach: hunger! My stomach growled and churned, and I reached to grab my burrito, only it was nowhere to be found.

I swung the truck around, gathered my courage and strode back into the restaurant one final time.  There Elmo stood, draped in youth and black nail polish. All I could think  was, "What is the world coming to?"

All  I could say was, "Did I leave my food and drink in here"? At this point I  was ready to ask a Boy Scout to help me back to my vehicle, and then go  straight home and apply for Social Security benefits..

Elmo had no  clue. I walked back out to the truck, and suddenly a young lad came up and tugged on my jeans to get my attention. He was holding up a drink and a bag.  His mother explained, "I think you left this in my truck by mistake." 

I took the food and drink from the little boy and sheepishly apologized.

She offered these kind words: "It's OK. My grandfather does stuff like this all the time."

All of this is to explain how I got a ticket doing 85 in a 40. Yes, I was racing some punk kid in a Toyota Prius.  And no, I told the officer, I'm not too old to be driving this fast.

As I walked in the front door, my wife met me halfway down the hall. I handed her a bag of cold food and a $300 speeding ticket. I promptly  sat in my rocking chair and covered up my legs with a blankey.

The  good news was I had successfully found my way home.

Notice the larger type? That's for  those of us who have trouble reading.

P.S. Save the earth...... It's  the only planet with chocolate !!!!!
 
 



 
 

[Steph]

I cant answer about the latin since I am still on the fence about taking it.. But I know that the past nine months have been time for me to set goals.. I wont say I will get there, but I needed to make sure that I learned to not only live, but enjoy life..  I find aging exhilerating most of the time.. Sure I ache now and then, but I love to walk, I love the gym and exercising,, yoga at least helps a bit with my balance.. One thing the physical therapist taught me.. She says it is all in the trying.. Succeeding may take time, but the trying needs to start at the beginning.

[maryz]

Succeeding may take time, but the trying needs to start at the beginning.

I  love this philosophy, Steph.  Thanks for sharing it.

[pedln]

Succeeding may take time, but the trying needs to start at the beginning.

I see Mary has already put that up, but it bears repeating .    .    .   .   and repeating.  That's perfect, Steph, and so appropriate in this discussion.  Classic.  You inspire us all.

[mabel1015j]

It is easy to romanticize the family farm, but it is anything but romantic, most of the time. My Mother never got over the fear that came w/ the tho't that lightening might set the barns on fire, even tho i never heard her tell a story of that having happened to her or anyone in her family. There are all sorts of dangers - machinery, animals, bad weather meaning lose of income, etc. etc. There is no such thing as a vacation, cows have to be milked every day. Work is never-ending especially in spring, summer and fall - most of the babies in our family were born in Sept, Oct, Nov - does that tell you when there was an opportunity for love-making and conception??? Outside work must be done in the summer no matter what the temperatures. ...................... none of my sister's four children choose to go into farming. Altho they are all still in the community they were raised in and very involved in it.

Bruce - can you give us any clue about why there are  only women involved in this discussion? ...........................jean

[JoanK]

My mother was raised on a farm, and left it as soon as she could.

But her brother came to visit us. He wanted to show us his pictures, and I thought they would be pictures of his grandchildren. No, they were pictures of his farm. You could hear the love in his voice when he talked about it.

[Steph]

JoanK.. I grew up in a farming community. We owned a small farm, not for our living however. My Dad was a contractor.. Still we raised chicken, pigs, etc large vegetable gardens, a small orchard.. etc. But the people I went to school with were mostly from farms and many of them are still there 55 years later. They do love the soil and what they do. The smart ones have learned to sway with the tide and have changed the type of farming. No more dairy anywhere in our county and the chicken farmers now all work for the big chicken companies, But now they are mostly orchards,, vegetable farms,,and specialty types of vegetables. The most successful have started large farm stores on their property and seem to do quite well. People love to go to farm stores and think everything is grown right on site. Sometimes yes, sometimes no..

[ANNIE]

I have a friend who grew up on a farm, youngest of 8 chlldren, who says that when she hears about others who grew up in the city, she feels envious. Hearing of their escapades with friends in the city makes her think of what she missed.   Most of her siblings were gone and there was no one to play with.  And although she kept busy helping her mother raising chickens, planting the kitchen garden, she was very lonely. She has retained a love for having gardens--floral and vegetable.  Her yard looks like a botanical experiment.  In spite of being 80yrs old,  she works in the garden daily, starting at dawn.  Early, because she must avoid the heat and the sun as she has skin problems due to too much sun.

[brucefrankel]

I'm back in New York, with my mother safely discharged from the hospital and back at home with her new energizer batteries. We had a little wrinkle that kept her in an extra night, but all went well and she's now looking forward to enrolling in a new painting class this fall.

(And yes, Adoannie, you were correct, the whole pacemaker was replaced. I had the chance to speak with the technician from Guidant when he came to do a pre-discharge check of amperage, etc. He explained that generally they refer to it as a battery replacement, because when doctors talk about replacing the pacemaker entirely, they include all of the leads to the heart.)

On the plane ride home, I sat next to a woman who has worked cleaning the New York University dental school offices for 36 years, since she was newly arrrived from Yugoslavia as a 19-year-old. She is on the verge of retirement, but feels as if she has done nothing with her life. When I suggested to her that she's not really too old to go back to her love of art and architecture -- and that she could probably get free tuition at NYU, she said, "No, if I haven't done it all these years I'll never do it. I've lost all ambition I ever had." I tried out a couple of encouraging stories on her, but she was sticking to her story. "My father ruined my life when he took me from my home and brought me here at 19. I got married young because I was angry at him. And I am angry at him because I ended up having to work my whole life doing nothing but cleaning up after others."

What struck me later was how this woman had created a storyline for herself, and she was more loyal to the story than she was to her life. She had probably repeated it so many times over so many years, she could not begin to imagine a life that was not attached to her father by that story of destruction. She was clearly not going to hear anything I had to say, and so, I mostly listened. But I wondered what one of you might have said to her.

By the by, the Sept-Oct. issue of AARP, the magazine, is out with a story on creativity. Note, a tip from yours truly in the accompanying box.

All the best, Bruce

[ginny]

Good for you being in AARP, Bruce! I don't get the magazine any more but I know somebody who does and we'll look for you.

I think I would ask her if she's going to allow her father to ruin what remains of the rest of her life.

 Easier said than done, tho with a grievance that old.

One story we haven't commented on is The Doctor of Substance, which is about our own Robby. I love the way this is written. I found out things about Robby I did not know, either. I didn't know he ushers at the community theater or that he writes a monthly column for Warrenton Lifestyle Magazine. I'd like to know how he ended up doing that.

That's the first time I heard Robby's mother and father's names. I wonder if the effect of WWI had any bearing on Robby's final choice of profession?    And he raised homing pigeons. I used to keep pigeons too.  I can just see him in his Chesterfield coat and Homburg hat and cane at 18, too. I had a Chesterfield coat when I went to college, boy was it thin, the icy air would whip thru it as if it were made of paper, but it was a Chesterfield! hahahah And Roseland! What an interesting chapter this is, all kinds of things about Robby I never knew.

 The Boy Scouts, reporting,  graduate school and the poignant death of his mother, marriages and various careers, it's fascinating reading of a full life in which Robby never seems to stand still or stay in one place.

I liked the part where he retired from ARI in May 1989 at 70, for two months, and then took a course to become a state certified abuse counselor. That seems to be the key to his constant upward success, he keeps moving.  At 76 he fought by appeal and won, becoming a clinical psychologist.  Retroactively. I know that was a sweet victory, hurrah for Robby!

 Then psychopharmacology and 17 workshops (17 Workshops!) between 1995 and 1999. Squad cars. Booking at the station, an education in addiction.

Writing children's stories, taking up bridge,  ALL-OK indeed. Wonderful article and wonderful person!  I am proud to know him.

[JoanK]

And he has been our fearless leader in Story of Civilization for how many years? Leading us from prehistoric times through Greece, Rome, the Middle Ages, the Renaissance. Even he didn't imagine that!

[JoanK]

I don't think there is anything you could have said to that woman. She had dug her thoughts into such a deep rut, she couldn't see out of it. Maybe if a friend took her by the hand, and led her to someplace where she could see something she loved (art for example), it would bring her out.

[pedln]

What is the saying, JoanK, "Men (and women too) lead lives of quiet desperation.?"  How sad, a young woman thinking she has to give up what she loves because her circumstances change. And then to live with those thoughts for years.  You tried, Bruce, and who knows, maybe you awakened something in her that will come out later.

I've been thinking of Sharyn McCrumb's words above, how some people need help in breaking open their pods, and that also brings to mind the many different venues that help them do that.  The local First Friday art events here are pretty much for the talented, but every Sunday the local newspaper has a display of photos that various subscribers have submitted.  Last weekend was a BIG 2-day Special Olympics event -- Outdoor Games --  lots of photos, articles about individual participants.

I guess I'm getting away from "second" lives, to living lives to the fullest, but one leads into the other, and my point is that it's sometimes important to provide the ways and means to do so. No doubt, everyone here can give examples of how it's done in their environs.

[Steph]

I know people who are like that woman and they do not change. They cling to the old grievances. It is sad. Life is a feast.. I truly believe your wishes and desires and even needs change over time. YOu must reach out and sample.. I love the stories of painting, but have no great desire to paint.. I journal, but blogging does not seem quite right for me. I am too private in the end. In our widows group, we have a widower whose wife loved to write poetry. He loves it, carries many of them in his wallet and reads them aloud at every opportunity. I asked him why he didnt try to write some, but he explained that carrying them and reading them to people brings her back to life for him. I liked that explanation.

[Lucylibr]

I belong to knitting groups, and some of the people are very talented and some are even professional designers who are publishing books.  I am content to do what I do, simple things, but I have learned much since I joined and now am doing simple things that are more interesting and challengiing.  It's a great opportunity to see what people have done.  They have trips and luncheons, while the group here  in the library on the beach just talk and go out to lunch, which is also pleasant.

I'm not looking for a second life, just ways I can improve the one I have now, which I like.

[brucefrankel]

Very interesting notes from all.

I loved your message, Steph.

Life is a feast. I truly believe your wishes and desires and even needs change over time. YOu must reach out and sample.

And that's an incredible story of the widower who carries his late wife's poems to read. What a poignant image: her poems folded into his wallet for him to read aloud every chance he gets. I liked, too, your impulse to ask him why he didn't try writing some of his own. I wonder what those poems would sound like.

And yes, PedIn, I agree. I think this business of second lives and third chapters gets a bit artificial. As Ginny pointed out in her wonderful recap of Robby's story, life is not so divisible. It's a little like when a great baseball player hits his 600th home run. What makes the 600th more important than the 599th or the 601st. It's just the way we mark things or put a handle on them.

In truth, I had to edit Robby's chapter down considerably, as I did several other chapters. There were some wonderful passages in Robby's early life, growing up in Islip, and fascinating things about his mother and father and the old house in Islip that I wished I could have woven into the chapter. I have a very solid image of Robby as a boy -- playing musical instruments, participating in a variety of church choirs, riding his bicycle great distances, exploring nature around the Great South Bay, occasionally getting into trouble in town, but always fueled by his mother's encouragement, intelligence, and wisdom.

But like you, Ginny, what I always found most amazing was the decision at 70 to get the internship at the University of Virginia And Robby really lived it, packing his hours into three days, if I remember, sleeping in Charlottesville two nights a week. Twenty years later, the dean still had a vivid recollection of Robby's inquisitive learning style and  his tough-mindedness. Yes, Robby's life is filled with motion, but it is mindful and purposeful movement. It's never movement for movement's sake. It's goal driven and belief-driven.

When I first showed an editor the manuscript for What Should I Do With The Rest Of My Life?, her first comment about Robby was: "I guess he's your poster boy!" He has certainly proved a great inspiration to me during the work on the book, a quality matched by his generosity and support since the book's publication.

What's most impressive, though, may be how well loved and widely respected Robby is in Warrenton. And what I witnessed in my visit with him, in particular at lunch and dinner, was how quickly he engages with others -- and how quickly they respond, and seem to want to continue the engagement.

I, for one, am hugely grateful to Robby for sharing the stories of his life so far with me.

[Steph]

Robby has the unusual ability to simply be comfortable no matter where he is. When we went to South Carolina, he was the only man and he simply fit.. We all enjoyed each other and laughed and laughed. Many men would not have been able to cope with that many women all at once.

[pedln]

It looks like the end of the month is fast approaching.  We can keep going here as long as we like, although some of us have got to wash a few clothes, toss them in a suitcase and head out to New York.  And for most of us there, the highlight of our trip will be meeting Bruce and MaryAnn McFadden at Sarabeth’s in Central Park.   And I get to catch up with my daughter and her partner for the first time since May when we were all together at a family wedding.

Bruce has asked us about our goals.

I'm wondering what examples of successful goal setting or visualization this group might have to share, since you all seem to have accomplished so much in recent years. For instance, has goal setting been important to learning Latin? Has visualization of something you hoped to do help you to do it?  -- Bruce

When I was growing up, and would tell my mother  about  a friend or acquaintance who was allowed to do something that I was not, her response was always, “What will she have to look forward to when she’s 25?”

Now that I’m in my 8th decade I still want things to look forward to – like this upcoming trip.  They may not be goal-setting spectacular,  more like short-term cattle prods.  Can I do 900 yards in the pool three times this week?  Will I try that new dessert for bridge club, instead of always buying Tiramisu.?  I think I feel more like Lucy, who says   .    .      .

I am content to do what I do, simple things, but I have learned much since I joined and now am doing simple things that are more interesting and challengiing.  ..  .    .
I'm not looking for a second life, just ways I can improve the one I have now, which I like.

  Happy with the status quo, but still trying to improve it.

What about the rest of  you?  Do you set goals, or maybe y ou don’t call them that.  Do you look and/or hope for the special things in your life

[ursamajor]

Something we have not addressed at all is what happens in the later years of retirement.  Robbie excepted, energy levels fall and physical ailments appear.  One still craves something in the future, but there doesn't seem to be anything ahead except an early bedtime and another doctor's appointment.  The internet is a real resource but television is very disappointing, especially since the interesting PBS shows come later in the evening than I can stay awake.  Fifteen years ago we did many things that are no longer possible, like driving to visit our children and young grands.  Now the grands are teens and driving on congested interstates seems unwise.  Airports scare me to death.   

[mabel1015j]

I find chemistry (anti-depressants) and gratitude lists help significantly. ...lol....I didn't realize how depressed and angry i felt until i started taking just 10mg of amitryptiline a day, which i actually took for my fibro, not for depression,  and had a change of brain chemistry - ya know "better living thru chemistry......." And every couple of days i try to list - mentally is not actually writing - what were the good things about today, just to get me away from the negative statements in my brain..........it works

I also find that i feel so much better after having lunch or coffee w/ friends, no super hiways, no airports, just driving a mile or two to meet up w/ them. ................and the stimulation that i get from the conversation w/ all of you helps too.................I feel like i'm still a part of the world.
I was never a goal setter and found that i did many things that just popped up in front of me that i wouldn't even had tho't about and therefore would not have been on a "goals" list. I have done many things in my life that i never even could have been a possibility when i was 20 yrs old. I find that is true for many people i talk to. The world has changed so much thru our lives that there are occupations and hobbies and fun things to do that weren't even in the world when we were young. So i'm not a goal setter now either.

 The most exciting thing that i'm involved w/ now came about accidentally also. A friend asked me to go to an Elderhostel/Exploritas/Roadscholar event at a retirement community near us. It was a once a wk, 6 wk series about women and political leadership. It was very good, but thruout the discussion i heard more than once women saying they didn't know much women's history. That being my avocation - history being one of my occupations, I wrote out an outline for a potential course and gave it to the woman in charge of the E/E/R course. At this retirement community they have their own "university," inviting in college professors and experts for 4 courses a year. So next spring i'm going to be presenting a course on Women in American History. One of my favorite parts of teaching is doing the research, pulling resources together, and building the course. So i'm feeling very good right now, as i'm in the middle of doing that. While talking w/ my friends about it one suggested that i get in touch w/ other retirement communities in our tri-county area to offer it to them - so that's my next "goal?"    ..........jean

[JoanK]

JEAN: we are all so excited abouit this course of yours.

One thing we all learn as we grow older is that life is not a straight line. You set off in one direction, buzzing along, then suddenly something happens (a death, an illness or disability) and wham! You have to pick yourself up, and either start all over again, find a new way to the old path, or find a new path to follow. (This is true for everyone, only young people don't know it yet).

I was born with a handicap (partial paralysis of my right side). Didn't learn to walk until I was 3 or 4. I felt that I knew how to deal with handicap. Yeah, right!!! Each time there is an increase in disability that limits me more, I have to go through the whole process all over again, as if I'd never known it before: the self pity, anger, frustration, depression blah blah blah. But the important thing is, I DO get through it. I use all the help that I can get: medicine, friends, spiritual resources, brain power to get around, over, and through obstacles. In the end, I'm too selfish to spend my life feeling sorry for myself  it's BORING!

(I talk a great game: wait for the next crisis, see how I do!)

Forty years ago, I set a modest goal for my personal pleasure: since I love birds, I wanted to see at least 300 species of birds in the wild before I died. That's very modest, for a "birder", but I knew I didn't have the resources to go abroad or the physical ability to travel to wild spots w/o much help from others, especially now that I'm in a wheelchair. I reached that goal the other day, just before my 77th birthday. HOORAY!

[Dana]

Jean....what you say about amitryptyline is so very true.  I'm a psychiatrist and often used to prescribe it for some kinds of physical pain (fibro being one) and, of-course, depression.  It would frequently work well in low doses.(esp. for pain)  Then it got supplanted by the newer antidepressants--but I often thought they were not as efficatious.  Anyway--the difference IS amazing when it works.

[maryz]

What an exciting event for you, Joan K!  Congratulations!

[pedln]

JoanK, congratulations.  That’s a fantastic goal that you have met.  Can you give us a quick breakdown.  Like where, approx. did you see these species.  I’m thinking Israel, Maryland, Californai,  and   .    .  .      .?  Do you have favorite birds?   The biggest challenge to see?

(I talk a great game: wait for the next crisis, see how I do!)

I think many do, and there is nothing wrong with it, either.

ursamajor, I understand what you’re saying.  Our capabilities change, and our perspectives along with them.  And sometimes it’s hard to reconcile with that. But as Jean says, there’s lots of things going on today that weren’t possible 25 or 30 years ago.  I remember my kids sending me videos of their children when they were little.  Now they can put them right on the Internet or email them.  And with webcams, you can connect to their own live shows.  Tomorrow – personal video conferencing.   (One of these days I'll learn how to work the webcam on my laptop     )

I remember one rather dismal Christmas several years ago – my first and only, ever by myself.  My son and family were in the Phillippines for a year, my youngest daughter was working in Guatemala and her sister was going to spend the holidays with her.  I was to go to my Seattle daughter and her family, and two days before departure her youngest came down with chicken pox.  I’d never had them and it was deemed wise not to go there.  It wasn’t awful, I was invited out to dinner, along with other strays.  It was fine.  That night, at home, an email came from my son directing me to Photoloft, and there were tons of  Christmas pictures of all their family doings.  Technology made my day.  And I’m a firm believer that there are and will be ways to work around some of those bumps that pop up in the road.

[brucefrankel]

 
I've just read through all of the posts since my last and kind of digesting them rather than trying to say something intelligent in response. Mostly, I just continue to be amazed and fascinated and inspired by your conversation. Particularly, I'll add, by the honesty of it. The public honesty of it.

But I couldn't not congratulate you, JoanK on bird #300. What a great goal! And to me, what a huge accomplishment. Like PedIn, I'd love to know more, but in particular and immediately, what was the 300th bird? where did you see it? how did you spot it? what did you do to celebrate?

 I'm such an absolute urban dweller that I might be able to distinguish a cardinal from a pigeon, or blue jay from a crow, but I'm not sure how much further I could go.

It reminds me, though, of a documentary on collecting I set out to make 15 years ago. Because of funding and issues with a collaborator, it went unfinished. The film was going to be kind of quirky, as much a look at collecting as animal behavior as individual obsession. One thing that has always stayed with me is a comment that a scientist at Oxford University told me about how innate collecting is to our species. He cited rhyme as an example of our need, maybe our earliest form of collecting. There were all kinds of theories, as can be seen in the chapter on Naomi Wilzig. But I think it is like music. It is about the pleasure the brain takes in observation and pattern making. But it is also a way of setting our lives to a kind of score. Perhaps it is too fantastic, but I wonder, Joan, if you looked back how many of the days you might remember associated with the birds you saw, about the memories that would flood in and attach to the image of that bird.

I was touched by your post, PedIn, to ursamajor. I find, too, on my many days alone as a writer, with my two older sons flown and my youngest often elsewhere, that I turn to the resources of the Internet to bring me some connection that otherwise I wouldn't have -- a look at one of their facebook pages reassures me that they are living their lives, a quick email just to touch base. When I visited my mother, I was upset to see how slow her old Dell has become and how little can now be done with it, and realized how vitally important a new computer is for her now. I also realized how poor a substitute the virtual is for the real.

[Steph]

Goals, since life got turned upside down, I have been steadily working on new goals.. Elderhostel is providing some travel and I will somehow work in more. I still get sad when I see the big RV's.. We had such fun in ours, but that part is done. I will try to find other outlets. I am doing some volunteering, but recently received an application to help in a  local animal shelter. It was more intrusive than any employment form I have ever seen. I sent it back with a No thanks letter and received a very snippy reply about how they need to be careful.. Since I planned on cleaning cages and dogs, not quite sure how careful they needed to be, but since I have worked with several dog rescue organizations for years, will continue just to do that.
The library is a nice volunteer place, but our library puts so much emphasis on the childs library and I really dislike volunteering in the childrens end. Research is my love and nonfiction.. so again I am not actively volunteering, although they supposedly have my name on file if they need helpers in the main library. I gather that the students at the community college get preference in the main library. Sigh.. Oh well.

[ANNIE]

I haven't been in this folder for a few days and have just really enjoyed the stories that our posters have written for posterity here.
Bruce,
Glad  your mom is back home and feeling good.  I know that its a relief for you to know that she still looks forward to the future. What an amazing person!

My dr told me he plans on retiring in the next year when he turns 65.  His wife will also. He says they have found that working 60 or 70 hours a week is finally catching up with them.  So, I told him about Bruce's book and the people he as featured in it and asked him if he had any plans for the future when he is retired.  
Well, that brought his story to the surface!  Seems that he is too busy living his life to think too far ahead.  After raising 5 children, giving them all college educations and working to support all this,  he and his wife find that they are slowing down.  Getting tired more easily and all that.
But he does expect to keep up his other business which is on the internet.  He has a well known travel agency that he maintains after working 12 hours everyday..  Beautiful site!  Then he will continue to keep up his pilot's license requirements by volunteering with Civil Air Patrol.  Sometimes planning for second chapter or third life just doesn't occur for our aging population. They are already involved in more than one life as it is.

Oh, JoanK, congratters on reaching your goal.  Like Bruce, I don't recognize that many of our fine feathered friends although I do enjoy watching them from our windows that overlook a woods and creek.

Steph,
You are doing such a good job of helping yourself recover from a great loss.  Hang in there!

As Pedl'n has mentioned, some of us are planning a trip to NYC where we will have the honor of meeting Bruce Frankel and Maryann McFadden at a tea party on Sept 11th.   And we have to pack!!

I want to mention that I will be out of town for the next four days visiting friends in eastern West Virginia.  We plan on a visit to the radio telescope facility near their home plus a ride on the Cass Scenic Railroad.  We hope to spend one night on their deck, wrapped in blankets, enjoying the sky and stars above.  They live way out in the mountains and have no city lights to prevent such an evening.
  
I will try to go online but haven't much hope for that in the mountains.

[ursamajor]

Thank you those who responded to my post.  It was so interesting that Mabel found a whole new way to expand a long time interest and to hear about Joan's seeing the 300th bird species!  And Pedln, thank you for your response.  It is particularly hard to be alone at Christmas.

  I still have a wonderful husband and stay in contact with our five children, but the oldest daughter now prefers to spend time with her own grandchildren and most of the others are too far away to see regularly.  We did this summer rent an enormous house in the mountains and all our children were there; the married granddaughters did not come because they have small children and thouht the house unsuitable.  In the past there were family communities of several generations but now mostly the kids are educated and go where they or their spouses find work.  It is too long between visits.

I will ask my doctor daughter about amitryptiline.

[Eloise]

I am in absolute awe from recent posts.

Being involved in my youngest daughter’s family life since we share a house, I only have part time to devote to my own goals, but I squeeze it in. I can say that the Internet has brought me more satisfaction that I could ever imagine. My most rewarding project was participating in a government research 2 years ago about seniors using the computer. So much came out of that research that senior’s Community Centers have received government grants to buy new computers and hired teachers. The goal of the project was to make sure that seniors would not pass this great opportunity of knowing how to use a computer to enhance their life.

In this research I mentioned my involvement with SeniorNet almost 14 years ago and I made a presentation on that subject at the close of the research. I can absolutely say that the computer and the Internet has fed my mind, improved my health and increased my social circle more than I could have imagined.

Seniors make a large contribution to society in general and we should not be concerned with the negative image from television ignoring 25% of the total population. We are more active than we were only 25 years ago and able to bring young people our experience and wisdom. We just have to do something, instead of waiting for someone to do it for us

[mabel1015j]

Congrats Joan! Now do you go for 350? Since we moved into a house w/ a small woods in the back yard, i've generated an interest in birds, but have never gone "birding."

Don't forget to look for the "two moons" tonight. I don't know in what part of the world you'll be able to see them, but here in the northeast, we can.......it's a once in a lifetime experience, i'm told, but maybe you have to stay up late.

Steph, i'm so impressed by the way you are pushing on. I hear a lot about retirees volunteering, but i think i could not just "volunteer" it would have to be something i really care about. I make blankets and caps for babies at the hospital because i like to knit and crochet. I wouldn't do it if it was a chore. I volunteer at the Alice Paul estate because i was a founding board member of the AP Foundation, but i wouldn't be interested in say - the Walt Whitman house nearby. I'm offering the women's history course because i like the subject, but also know about a dozen of the people who live in the retirement community. I know that i could not just do "something." It has to intrique me.

I think we all have Seniornet/seniorlearn/seniorsandfriends on our "gratitude lists." My life would be significantly more boring w/out those sites. Thanks to everyone who established them and keep them operating. ................... and to authors like Bruce who will spend some time w/ us. Great intellectual stimulation, which is one my greatest "losses" since retiring.................jean

Bruce, you comment about collecting intrigued me, can you tell us more about that?

[JoanK]

BRUCE: "if you looked back how many of the days you might remember associated with the birds you saw, about the memories that would flood in and attach to the image of that bird".

You hit the nail on the head! It's thrilling to see a "new" bird, but even better is that these birds become like old friends to me, with stored memories and histories. I may be in a strange place, but if I see a bird I "know", I know I have friends there. And my knowledge and understanding of the birds and their lives deepens each time I see them.

For those reasons, Mabel, you might want to get a "bird book" (Peterson is good and cheap: so is The Golden Field guide) and learn their names. Then when you see them, you will remember " that's the bird I saw singing yesterday: today he's carrying nesting material. Hmm."

Now is fall migration, so you may see birds that you won't see at other times. Your book may tell you that the bird you saw came from Canada and is headed for South America. In the Spring, you may see the same bird headed the other way.

The other gift that birds give us: they keep our eyes and ears open. Birds to me represent the beauty that is all around us, but that we don't see, because we don't look. There are some wheelchair accessable or car accessable wildlife sanctuaries, but mostly, I have seen birds by just keeping my eyes and ears open. Seeing one bird can keep you alive to the beauties of nature in the drabbist urban sdetting.

[maryz]

JoanK, do you ever look at the Pale Male web site?  You may remember that Pale Male is the red-tailed hawk that lives on an apartment building overlooking Central Park in NYC.  There was a lot of controversy a number of years ago when some of the tenants wanted to destroy the nest.  The hue and cry was tremendous, and so the hawks were allowed to stay.  This photographer posts new photos every day of Pale Male and other hawks, birds, and Central Park wildlife.  He's a great photographer, so it's fun to see what he finds. 
http://www.palemale.com/

[Lucylibr]

Sandpipers of various sizes have reappeared on my beach. In the spring I was told by a bird watcher friend that they were migrating. Now are they reversing their trip and going south again?  They are delightful, running along the shore very near the water. We also have an endangered species here, the Piping Plover, which I have never seen and I have heard is difficult to spot.