Author Topic: Talking Heads ~ Three Day Wonders (Read 50739 times)

Steph · « **Reply #120 on:** October 13, 2010, 06:36:36 AM »

Talking Heads #11

"It occurred to me that nothing is more interesting than opinion when opinion is interesting..."
Herbert Bayard Swope, creator of the Op-Ed page.

A forum for opinions on anything in print: magazines, newspaper articles, online:
bring your ideas and let's discuss.

Our Eleventh Topic:

3 DAY WONDERS - topics and articles provided every three days by YOU, our readers.

Sixth topic - Oct.16 ~ UNJUST LAWS?

"Unjust Law is no law at all"

Letter from Birmingham Jail (ML King Jr.)

Where does Morality fit into Law?

"Unjust law is no law at all" ~ St. Augustine of Hippo

Contact: Babi - (Head Honcho)

Tattoo...piercing.. At this moment, my biggest hope is that my granddaughter does not do this.. but she is 15 and after 18, her parents can no longer say NO>. At least piercing will heal if you simply dont use a ring any more..But the Tatts.. are so very hard to get rid of..

Babi · « **Reply #121 on:** October 13, 2010, 08:07:52 AM »

JEANNE, I have always felt that movies and TV have far too great an impact on our
society. We forget that their goal is to sell, and what they represent as the norm,
or even acceptable, is not necessarily so. Until, over time, the film industries
standards of morality do become the norm. Each younger generation gets the idea that
"everybody's doing it".
I wonder how much that has to do with the proliferation of tattooing in North America. My
three grandchildren, all adults now, all sport tattoos and seem quite pleased with them. I can't
understand it, but it's done and I am not about to alienate my grandchildren by carping about it.
Our article states that one survey indicate 40% of Americans between the ages of 26 and 40
have been tattooed! I can understand the body decorations in primitive subcultures, where the
body was the only canvas available on which to express the artistic impulse. I can understand
the desire to document key events in their lives, like coming of age. Neither of those reasons
explain tattooing and scarification in a modern culture.

ANNIE · « **Reply #122 on:** October 13, 2010, 08:46:35 AM »

No, JoanP,
No ads on my computer.

I wanted to thank Mahlia for being so gracious in answering our questions. And the questions were so varied and interesting.

Although we are only discussing this topic for three days, its been most gratiflying to read all of the posts.

Whoops, I see that the topic has changed and we are off to discuss the history of tattooing?? Body piercing?? My goodness, I am not fond of what the young people and some older are doing to their bodies. But at one time in the history of the world, it was very well thought of and an honor to do these things.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #123 on:** October 13, 2010, 10:30:09 AM »

BABI, what are the tatoos your grandchldren have? What do they look like? Where are they?

I didn't know that this is popular with the young! Why? Can you get the thing off your body if you decide you don't want the tatoo later? I skimmed the article and the methods they describe for removal sound "iffy.'

When we were young, we associated tatoos with sailors for some reason, long forgotten.

I know my hairdresser had permnent eyebrows tattooed on and I like them. And something else, was it eyelashes? Anyway she is 65 years old and very attractive. People would say she is 45 easily.

Persian · « **Reply #124 on:** October 13, 2010, 11:38:14 AM »

ADOANNIE - as I mentioned earlier, it was a pleasure to participate in the 3 day discussion RE Islam. Excellent questions, stimulating thoughts and perhaps continued exploration in the future for those interested.

JEANNE - With great respect for your comments, may I respond that there is indeed a wide range of choice on many topics in Islam. However, non-Islamic traditions (especially in the West) are NOT generally aware of them, since they do not attract the TV or newspaper coverage that the more orthodox forms do and thus are not as well known. And of course, since head coverings for women and modest dress are more noticeable in public, they naturally draw more attention (and questions) from individuals not familiar with the customs.

For example, my Egyptian husband is an example of a MODERATE Muslim. Many of our Muslim male friends are also of the same persuasion. Some of them are married to non-Muslim American women, a couple to Egyptian Christian women, and several to Muslimas who follow a variety of modest choices with their selection of clothing, but do NOT cover their hair in public. Of course, we do know families who adhere (by choice) to the more orthodox forms of dress for the women. Although there is a range of choice RE women's dress in Islam, it is NOT well known by non-Muslims (particularly in the West), whose knowledge of Muslims often depends on what they see and read in the news, rather than knowing people personally.

Now. . . . moving right along to the subject of tattooing!

Mahlia

maryz · « **Reply #125 on:** October 13, 2010, 01:47:38 PM »

Our six grandkids are in their 20s. Both of the girls have tattoos, and one grandson (the one in the Navy). I don't know about the other guys - haven't noticed, and the subject hasn't come up. Also, both girls have navel rings. Grandma keeps her mouth closed on the subject. The two girls are siblings, and I don't think their other grandparents are aware of the tattoos. The older one has a small one of the Oz ruby slippers on her ankle. The younger (now 21) one's first one is fairly large (at least to me) in the middle of her back, and is to honor a friend who was accidentally killed in their junior year of high school. The second one is smaller and is to honor her 90-year-old great-great-aunt (a cross) and me (the breast cancer ribbon). I've never mentioned that I might have preferred something else

, but I am touched by the thought and appreciate the honor she bestowed and carries with her.

Mahlia, thanks from me, too, for your insightful and helpful comments and explanations.

Persian · « **Reply #126 on:** October 13, 2010, 07:47:11 PM »

MARYZ - and I'll bet that is exactly why your gal has those daily reminders - so she will NEVER forget!

Mahlia

straudetwo · « **Reply #127 on:** October 13, 2010, 08:12:10 PM »

JoanP and Mahlia,
We have touched before on the subject of head and body covering used by Muslim women, for examp,le in our discussion of A Thousand splendid Suns by Pakistani-born Khaled Hosseini (author also of The Kite Runner). Furthermore, The Bookseller of Kabul by Åsne Eierstadt, an award-winning Norwegian journalist, who has reported from other theaters of war inter alia Bosnia), has been mentioned.

Eierstad went to Afghanistan after 9/11, when the Taliban had been pushed back, and lived with a bokseller's family for about 4 months, interviewed the members of his family (5 children) and close relatives, attending a Muslim wedding (where henna is rubbed on the palms of the women on the eve, if I remember correctly). She reports in the book of going to the bazaar with the women of the family, all of them enshrouded in a burka. She also commented on one teenage son who showed scant respect for women, even his own mother. She also mentioned that women were not allowed to go out alone unaccompanied without a male presence, even if if's a young boy.

Confronted or living with this, as Seierstgad did, is more appalling than "confusing" in my humble opinion. In that regard, Muslim society has indeed not progressed at all, as Jeanne said here earlier. The issue of women's covering up in public and in schools will continue to be hotly debated, whether it be veil or burka, or something in between.
Recently two young female students caused a stir in Paris, walking the avenues of Paris in a short burka that ends well above the knee, in bare legs and short sort pants. They made a film about it, and a video of the "stir" was shown. Check Google "French women cause a stir in niqab and hot pants". There it is - just when one thought we'd "seen it all" !! With respect, I think this IS indeed "big business" in a western country. It is a thorny issue that will not go away any time soon.
-----------------
On erotica - the Chinese had the foot fetish, and the first concrete of their nascent independence came when they stopped binding their feet.

On body piercing and tattoos: I confess to having a low tolerance to both. My two grands, boy 14, girl 11 (going on 16) have not mentioned it, yet. Both attend private school and wear uniforms. Both play soccer and are sports fanatics; Hannah has taken ballet for years.
-----------------
Mahlia, thank you for your information. I wish there had been ore time to at least mention the history of Islam afte 632. I hope all will go well with your medical orocedure tomorrow.
Traude

Steph · « **Reply #128 on:** October 14, 2010, 06:25:17 AM »

I do hope that Mahlia is ok, since today she was having a procedure of some sort at the hospital.
When I owned my stores,, I would not hire anyone pierced in any place other than earrings.. That is that showed.. Simply did not want to turn customers off. I have no strong feelings for small tatts done well. The small rose,, the breast cancer symbol. But the women who have tattoos all down both legs..Whew.. Just looks awful.

Babi · « **Reply #129 on:** October 14, 2010, 08:42:15 AM »

ELLA, I couldn't begin to tell you about my grandkids tattoos. The Canadian pair have
several and I tried to admire them as artwork without cringing too much over the fact
that they adorned their bodies permanently.
There's a long tradition of sailors and tattoos, MARY. If you got that far in the
article, you know that sailors were the ones who first carried tattoos from the
remote areas ot the world back to civilization. I was interested that your younger
granddaughter acquires tattoos specifically in honor of people she loves. That is
much closer to the original purposeful use of tattoos to celebrate special events in
the tribal life.

A lot of tattoos in plain sight does look 'awful' to most of us, doesn't it, STEPH. Especially
our generation. Personally, I suspect that is a major reason for it's popularity with the young
people. Every generation seems to come up with something to shock their elders. It's just
that in the past, it wasn't a thing we would have to live with ever after. Yes, tattoos can be
removed, but getting them off is much harder them putting them on. Here's a link to a site
that gives an idea of what's involved. http://www.googobits.com/articles/1745-removing-your-tattoo.html

JoanP · « **Reply #130 on:** October 14, 2010, 09:11:00 AM »

The kids today are exposed to so much more than we are aware of...to them, their own little tatts are nothing - compared to what they see on TV and on the net - I'm thinking of Angelina Jolie... Are you familiar with the Sandra Bullock/Jesse James - their marriage breakdown as she was accepting the Academy Award? He's covered with tattoos. Well, he has a new love interest.... You've probably never spent time watching "Miami Ink" - a reality TV showabout a tattoo parlor in Florida. I'll bet you know about it, Steph

Jesse James in now in love with a former employee at Miami Ink - who now has her own show in CA. Are you ready for Kat's tattoos? Keep in mind that this is popular programming among the young...take a look at Kat's tats!!
more!

I think the issue of tattoos goes beyond rebellion - it is more of a desire to identify with others - who are free, hip, cooler than who they have been. Come to think of it, maybe that's the same thing as rebellion. You're right, Babi - it's a painful and expensive process to get rid of them.

Babi · « **Reply #131 on:** October 14, 2010, 09:26:48 AM »

Ugh! I find that really, really ugly.
Did you see, in the linked article, the mistress of the Japanese gangster boss whose entire back
was tattooed with symbols of their mafia type group? Those tattoos were at least delicate and
gave the appearance of lace on her back. I couldn't help but wonder, though, if all that was her choice, or her master's.

All this could be identification, JOANP,... but with what.? I would dearly love to understand that.

ANNIE · « **Reply #132 on:** October 14, 2010, 11:20:23 AM »

My DIL and I were talking to a young mother at a soccer game. She had tattoos on her shoulder, in the back. They were small and represented each of her children. Like a flower to represent daugher, Lily. My DIL mentioned that she had wanted to do the same thing for her 4 kidsos. I almost fell over in shock and horror but manage to keep my big mouth shut!
But, when you look at KAT's Tats and Others, you see a beautiful young lady and wonder why is she ruining her body? Are we missing the point

Got me!

Does anybody here remember the cover or graphic of the NUDE actress that was in one of the news mags about 15 yrs ago? She was also pregnant. The tattoos were removable but you couldn't tell that she was NUDE!! Bruce Willis's ex now. Can't think of her name. Ah, yes, a google search reveals its Demi Moore but I can't find the picture.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #133 on:** October 14, 2010, 06:35:49 PM »

Idendification, possibly. At one time, didn't the street gangs (L.A. possibly?) have tatoos? And, then, there were motorcycle gangs.

I don't know how these tatoos evolved from that time of identity to the teenagers of today.

Is it an age thing then?

Persian · « **Reply #134 on:** October 14, 2010, 09:12:12 PM »

I've noticed that in the funeral cortege of some military personnel whose bodies are returned home for burial, there is often a motorcycle cortege accompanying the family's vehicles. And quite often the bikers are tattooed - sometimes extensively. Some of the older guys are Vietnam vets, but others are younger.

Recently the 20-something Army son of one of our local Pastors died and his service was here in our town. Some of the fellows who accompanied the family's cars were much younger, but many of the men on the curbs holding flags were in their 20's. They also were tattooed.

But perhaps if we think of the tattooing of today and then recall the PURPLE or PURPLE/RED colored hair of the 1970's, it doesn't seem so peculiar. Of course, the hair color can wear out, whereas removing tattoos is a much more complicated process. Even though I grew up (sort of) in the age of Hippies, I was always much more interested in Jackie Kennedy's style!

I glanced at one of my books today, entitled THE WORLD OF ALLAH, and noticed among the gorgeous photos of the tribal women throughout the Middle East, there are often clearly defined tattoo es on the women's hands and arms. A couple had them in the middle of their foreheads! These are TRIBAL symbols, just as is the case throughout much of Africa.

Thanks for the thoughts today RE my medical procedure. I was home before noon, took a nap and am really fine. I appreciate the support!

Mahlia

Persian · « **Reply #135 on:** October 14, 2010, 09:31:04 PM »

ELLA - I'm a native of Los Angeles, so may I respond to your inquiry about tattoos in that area?

Yes, indeed, there were specific "gang tattoos" that I remember from many years ago. I especially recall those from the CRIPS and the BLOODS, because those folks were NOT shy about showing them in public. Most were intended (at that time) for ONLY identification purposes between the gangs of different city areas. As the years passed, the tattooed insignias took on more meaning - some serious threats, some joking taunts, and others placed in "unmentionable" places of the body to instill in the individuals receiving them that "pain" was also part of being a member. Even the girlfriends had tattoos.

I graduated from a HS in the Los Angeles suburbs and recall that several of the Latinas had tattoos on their arms, across the upper breast or under their armpits - which they were eager to show off in the girl's bathrooms. In those days, some of the Latinas also carried their boyfriend's "weapons" - usually a knife (or just the blade) taped to the inside of their arms and covered by a long-sleeve shirt or sweater. It took a while for school officials to figure out that the girlfriends often carried the weapons, NOT just the boys.

Years later, when I relocated to the metropolitan Washington DC area, I noticed there were large numbers of tattooed youth in the high schools, area community colleges, as well as the universities. And on weekends, there were always large numbers of gang members hunkered down in the Georgetown area of Washington - at least until the Police came through to clear them out - but they returned a couple of hours later, riding their motorcycles back across the bridges from Northern VA.

Mahlia

roshanarose · « **Reply #136 on:** October 14, 2010, 11:22:22 PM »

If one must have a tattoo they should try a temporary one first. When I was in Greece (actually on the magnificent island of Santorini) many, many women were sporting tattoos. I got to talking to a woman about this trend and she told me that women (tourists) of all ages around the Greek islands had temporary tattoos. So - I found the temporary tattooist and requested that he tattoo a pterodactyl on my right inside ankle. He did. I loved it - don't ask me why I chose a pterodactyl, as I have no idea. It washed off after about 3 weeks and I was satisfied with the experience of being tattooed.

As for a permanent tattoo - no way! I can visualise in thirty years all these women in nursing homes explaining away why they were wearing permanent tattoos of something as obscure as a Burmese hill tribe's totem, that they had most likely forgotten. As the women were fading slowly, so were the tattoos. Not a good look, as they say.

Demi Moore is the actress you are referring to AdoAnnie.

Steph · « **Reply #137 on:** October 15, 2010, 06:26:54 AM »

A friend of mine loves to send jokes online and he recently sent me a whole series based on being a senior and having serious tatts.. Very funny indeed.

Babi · « **Reply #138 on:** October 15, 2010, 08:38:54 AM »

PERSIAN mentioned the tattoos of women of the Middle East. Some of those are temporary,
also. They are painted on with henna as part of a wedding celebration. They can be very
complex and detailed, but will last little more than a week.
It occurs to me, considering what a woman might endure for beauty, that we have women
walking about in pain every day, in 4-inch heels with narrow toes. It's easy to say she can always take off the shoes, but the damage to her feet could be as permanent as those tattoos.

We need some new topics. Coming up tomorrow is the topic of unjust laws, and what
morality would require of us in that regard. We need more topics to follow. Look for news
topics that catch your interest, things that are happening right now!
Speaking of which, I would be interested to know what the new political "Tea Party" is all
about. I looked for a description, but all I'm finding just now is what they are doing, not who/what they are. Can anyone enlighten me?

Persian · « **Reply #139 on:** October 15, 2010, 10:31:21 AM »

BABI - one topic I've been following regularly is "gays in the military," and how the various areas of the USA are responding to the "don't ask, don't tell," including the Pentagon, retired vets, younger folks who are considering military service (not only to serve their country, but to have a regular income and insurance).

Another topic which has been in the news frequently is the still fairly low salary levels of women in the USA. However, there are some women who earn substantial salaries and many younger women who plan to reach those higher dollar rates in the near future. In the latter category is Danica Patrick, a young NASCAR driver, as well as an INDY race car driver. Some women in the banking and investment sector earn substantial salaries and younger women (many still in college) are keeping a close eye on their salaries as graduation approaches.

One more topic which has drawn my close attention is how much folks in the USA have become really savvy about how to develop home businesses. Some who were fired from long-time jobs and others who simply got tired of working for others have followed-up on great business ideas. One of the local community colleges near here has revamped it curriculum to address this increase in home businesses.

And, of course, world-wide cultural issues are always interesting. Just a couple of thoughts for future topics. Hope everyone has a great weekend!

Mahlia

ANNIE · « **Reply #140 on:** October 15, 2010, 02:59:14 PM »

Babi,
Here's an article that I just read online at Yahoo News. It could lead to an interesting 3 day chat among our posters?

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/food/americas-top-5-healthiest-fast-food-restaurants-2397396/

Roxania · « **Reply #141 on:** October 15, 2010, 04:46:08 PM »

My archaeologist daughter has a petroglyph, and my artist daughter has the kanji for "lotus."

I think--and my tongue is firmly inserted in cheek here--that we have no one to blame for this but ourselves. After all, we made it impossible for our kids to upset their parents with anything as simple and temporary as long hair and short skirts, so they had to find some way to up the ante. I shudder to think what THEIR kids will come up with!

ANNIE · « **Reply #142 on:** October 15, 2010, 07:55:22 PM »

Having a son with long hair didn't upset me but it drove my DH crazy. Having a daughter who thought hanging with the guttersnipes was the thing to do, was getting to me. I only hoped that they would remember these things when they raised their own children. And, they did! Wow, what a shock that was! Their kids were worrying them just like they had done to their parents. Well DUH! Who would have thought?? hahaha! That's life!

Persian,
I like your idea of talking about laid off workers finding a different way to work and many--online. Just don't believe that one young woman who is making $6800 a month or was that a week, right here in my hometown. Its a scam, where you give scammer $10 0r $20 dollars for the kit to learn how. He could make his fortune just collecting the money for the kit. Well, he has certainly learned how to make a lot on the internet, working from home. hahaha!

roshanarose · « **Reply #143 on:** October 15, 2010, 11:43:13 PM »

Roxania - Interesting to learn about your daughters' tats. I am particularly interested in the petroglyph. I am reading "Cracking the Code - The Rosetta Stone" at the moment. Fascinating stuff - but cringing somewhat at the thought of having it as a permanent tattoo. What with one section each of Egyptian hieroglyphs, Coptic and Greek, and the prospect of many weeks under the tattooist's needle, I think I will give the Rosetta Stone a miss as a tattoo. What does your daughter's petroglyph represent?

Steph · « **Reply #144 on:** October 16, 2010, 06:11:21 AM »

I have read a little about an organization brand new,, called " The Coffee Party" It seems to be mostly about good sense.. restraint and responsible voting.. No idea how it started. Possibly on Facebook..

JoanP · « **Reply #145 on:** October 16, 2010, 08:13:23 AM »

Our Eleventh Topic:

3 DAY WONDERS - topics and articles provided every three days by YOU, our readers.

Sixth topic - Oct.16 ~ UNJUST LAWS?

"Unjust Law is no law at all"

Letter from Birmingham Jail (ML King Jr.)

Where does Morality fit into Law?

"Unjust law is no law at all" ~ St. Augustine of Hippo

Contact: Babi - (Head Honcho)

Babi · « **Reply #146 on:** October 16, 2010, 09:29:29 AM »

MAHLIA & ANNIE, thanks for those suggestions.
I have been seeing quite a bit about the turmoil over 'don't ask, don't tell'. Do you
have a link to a good article reviewing the subject, MAHLIA? Same for the one
Annie liked, about laid-off workers finding other sources of income.

ANNIE, I was dismayed to see that only one of those five top 'good food' chains is
even available where I live. How about the rest of you? Can we identify local chains
with some healthy food?

TODAY we're starting a new topic on unjust laws, another one from ELLA. Do check out the
links. The quote is from St.Augustine, quoted by MLK, Jr. in his "Letter From Birmingham Jail".
The second link is to the letter, which I read for the first time...with enormous respect!

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #147 on:** October 16, 2010, 10:26:40 AM »

ENORMOUS RESPECT! Yes, I had never read Dr. King's Letter from the Birmingham Jail either.

Did you know he was in solitary confinement in prison; was given newspapers by a trustee, and a pencil, and wrote that 8 or was it 10 page single-spaced letter on the margins of newspapers? Scholarly? Read it!!!

He had a PhD in theology and was the third generation of ministers. Well schooled in classical literature!

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #148 on:** October 16, 2010, 10:28:33 AM »

One of the central questions here I believe (I may be wrong, of course) is would the Civil Rights Act have been passed if it had not been for Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

I think most of us remember the protest marches??? Don't you?

Where were you?

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #149 on:** October 16, 2010, 10:40:04 AM »

It may not have happened without this man either:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9kT1yO4MGg&feature=related

Bull Connor - the perfect adversary

Persian · « **Reply #150 on:** October 16, 2010, 10:55:28 AM »

BABI - here's a link to several online articles on the topic of "Don't Ask, don't tell," which may be of interest if you select this topic for future discussions. As you know, it is a HOT topic in the military and with folks who work with the military (whether at the USG level - Pentagon - or at the various posts throughout the USA and abroad). Chaplains get pulled into the fray, especially when there is physical abuse of active-duty military personnel or the gay personnel can no longer bear the fear, frustration or threats.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=don%27t+ask%2C+don%27t+tell&ei=UTF-8&fr=chrf-ytbm

Another future topic might be to share info RE how folks throughout the USA are responding to the changing demographics in their areas RE the enormous increase in newcomers from other countries. In the Southern area where we live (about 20 miles NE of Charlotte, NC), there is a substantial Hispanic population, which continues to increase. And, quite naturally, there are an abundance of small businesses established by these newcomers - often small laundries or restaurants. I've noticed also that many of the crew members on our City services teams (trash pick up, newspaper deliveries, etc.) are Hispanic. Since I'm a native Californian and have been around Hispanics and Latinos most of my life, it's NOT a big deal, but to folks who have not had the multicultural experiences I've enjoyed, they are often puzzled and/or uncomfortable.

ELLA - I lived in the metropolitan Washington DC suburbs and well remember the thousands of people marching along the major areas of Washington, overflowing into Maryland and across the Potomac River into Northern Virginia. I also remember the thousands of folks (country-wide) who came to our area to hear Dr. King's "I have a dream" speech. It was truly a proud moment in history and one which has continued as a focus of classroom learning at all levels throughout the school systems.

Mahlia

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #151 on:** October 16, 2010, 11:16:04 AM »

Thanks, PERSIAN, for your interest.

You are right that we are still studying and learning about civil protests. A local judge is giving a series of lectures concerning the topic. I didn't know, for example, that Dr. King and his associates PLANNED the whole protest movement before it began. The city they chose was Birmingham because it was the most segregated and they wanted to go to jail, they purposely created scenes of protest.

Did you know that Henry Bellefontaine raised money, in Hollywood and other places, for their bond money?

mabel1015j · « **Reply #152 on:** October 16, 2010, 06:39:02 PM »

While reading a recent bio of Condolizza Rice I had the recurring tho't that I have anytime I've read or heard about people performing civil disobedience - would I have the courage to do that? Could I perform an act that I knew might get me fired, or that would destroy my career,or that would get my house burned, or that would put my children's security in danger? If I was a parent in Little Rock, could I have sent my child to integrate the high school and have them in danger or apprehensive every day? I don't think I could do that. Rice's parents wouldn't let her march in the Children's March in Birmingham.

My husband and his sister were at the '63 March on Washington. Of course, they were not endangered, but they could have been.

It't only been in the last few decades that we've begun to hear how much women were responsible for the civil rights movement. In the three cases that were considered to be the impetus for the Montgomery bus boycott, all three people arrested were female. It was a group of women who mimeographed 40,000 flyers to start the boycott. Remember mimeo graph machines w/ that purple ink? They also distributed them that night to mostly women teachers who sent the flyers home w/ their students. It was mostly women who rode the buses and, therefore, boycotted the buses.

John Lewis gave much praise to Ellen Baker in his autobio. She did much of the organizational work for M.L.King in the SCLC, and did not get any credit and little cooperation. So she left and started the Student Non-violent Coordinating Comm.

Here's a site that gives a summary of some of the women.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9862643/

Jean

Persian · « **Reply #153 on:** October 16, 2010, 06:45:40 PM »

ELLA - I wonder if you mean Harry Belafonte? If so, here is a link to some info RE his association with Dr. King.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Harry+Belafonte+and+Martin+Luther+King&ei=UTF-8&fr=chrf-ytbm

Mahlia

Steph · « **Reply #154 on:** October 17, 2010, 06:31:51 AM »

I marched against Viet Nam and yes , it was scary, but I was never arrested.. However I know another woman, a Quaker, who insisted onl picketing and then climbing fences in federal installations and at 65, they sent her to federal prison for two years.. Made me really think.. I had small children at the time.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #155 on:** October 17, 2010, 08:15:32 AM »

Yes, I did mean Harry Belafonte, an interesting man. Thanks, Persian

And we have forgotten the women, Jean, with the exception of Rosa Parks, AND we have forgotten THE NORTHERN WHITE PEOPLE THAT CAME TO THE PROTEST! CAME IN HUNDREDS AND HELPED THE COUNTRY REALIZE THE IMMORALITY OF SEGREGATION. They came in buses and cars - weren't they called Freedom Riders?

Steph, I had small children at the time, too, and couldn't leave them. But I wonder if I would have?

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #156 on:** October 17, 2010, 08:17:47 AM »

Our lecturerer, the Judge, says an unjust law is when the majority makes a law binding upon a minority who has not had an opportunity to vote for the law.

Babi · « **Reply #157 on:** October 17, 2010, 08:21:34 AM »

Thanks, MAHLIA. I definitely want to include that 'HOT' topic.

JEAN, I wasn't aware of all that about the role of women in civil rights. None of
those names mentioned in the link were known to me. Not surprising, of course, given
the times. Women were always in the background, 'supporting' the male leadership. The
media singles out a heroine for the public to admire, like the courageous Rosa Parks,
and say no more of the women's role.
Your observations about the risks of civil disobedience are very realistic, and may
explain why so many women were involved. Their men may well have been reluctant to
risk the loss of a job they badly needed to support their families.
As I think about it, I believe I would have been more determined in fighting to
change a system that was thwarting my children's chances of a decent life, than any
'unjust' law that did not hit so close to home.

STEPH, I suspect climbing that fence at a federal installation made the difference.
I doubt they would have arrested the women for simply picketing. But you're right.
A woman with small children who need her cannot afford to risk too much. She has
very important prior responsibilities.

fairanna · « **Reply #158 on:** October 17, 2010, 01:31:28 PM »

In reading Marcie's latest email I read with interest the TALKING HEADS and the latest comments I feel I would enjoy this very much ......For some reaspn and I dont know why except my parents purchased a larger home becasue my arrival was going to change family size from 5 to 6 it was an integrated neighborhood ( this was 1927) although I never realized ..everyone seemed to get along I never heard anyone say anything dertogatory and was really surprised as I grew older how some people spoke against anyone who wasnt like them...but not in the neighborhood itself....The only word I ever heard was NEGRO and it was always said the same way IRISH OR POLISH< JEWISH GERMAN ETC WAS SAID NO SUGGESTION THAT ANY OF THEM MIGHT BE PREDJUDICIAL I came away with the idea that ALL PEOPLE WHEREVER WHOMEVER COLOR OR RELIGEOUS WERE GOD"S CHILDREN AND ALL WERE EQUAL ..I am glad because as I grew up I met many humans of different nationalities , color, opinion,,,etc and I became friends with all..and it has made my life so much more interesting and joyful...back later to see what direction you are taking....sincerely anna

Persian · « **Reply #159 on:** October 17, 2010, 02:51:55 PM »

Here is a link to an article in today's Charlotte Observer by Eric Frazier entitled "My night in a slave cabin," which clearly brings back to the modern reader the practices of slavery throughout the region. The link below is a clear indication that people of color today are often reminded of the heritage of their forebears in developing regions of the USA (particularly in the South) and how it still affects them.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/10/15/1763946/my-night-in-a-slave-cabin.html

ANNA - Like you, I was introduced to people of various racial, ethnic, cultural and religious backgrounds very early in life. I always took much pleasure throughout the years in learning about their families, customs, and how they interacted with neighbors, in schools, home neighborhoods, serving in the military, establishing (and developing) their own businesses and seeking employment from a wide range of employers. I was born in Los Angeles, CA, lived in more than 30 areas of the USA and abroad during my life, but it was NOT until moving to the American South several yeas ago that I became clearly aware that racial discrimination was still alive and well. It has been a saddening experience and one that I can only believe is due in part - STILL - to the customs and habits of past generations, which carried over to the current time, as well as the lack of encouragement to learn otherwise from families, schools, elected officials and others. In numerous conversations when I've mentioned something from the days of Martin Luther King or quoted something from one of his public presentations, many of the folks I am addressing get a fixed look in their eyes and a certain set to their lips or jawbone, which indicates to me that they are NOT interested or very much displeased with my comments.

Mahlia

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