Talking Heads ~ Three Day Wonders

[FlaJean]

Talking Heads #11

"It occurred to me that nothing is more interesting than opinion when opinion is interesting..."
Herbert Bayard Swope, creator of the Op-Ed page.

A   forum for opinions on anything in print: magazines, newspaper articles, online:
 bring your ideas and let's discuss.

3 DAY WONDERS - topics and articles provided every three days by YOU, our readers.   9th topic - Oct.25 ~ Campaign Mudslinging Mudslinging by Candidates (Columbus Dispatch)   ~~~ Does mudslinging before an election affect how you vote?  If so, in what way? Do you know how much is spent on these ads?  How better to use the money?

 

Contact:  Babi - (Head Honcho) 

[marjifay]

Thanks, Jean, for the article on women in the Civil Rights movement.  The only women I remember were Rosa Parks and Angela Davis.  Will have to read more.

I did not march in demonstrations back then, altho. I wanted to protest the Vietnam War.  But I was a single mom with two small boys and couldn't afford to risk jail or loss of my job.

Marj

[roshanarose]

Rosa Parks immortalised in song.  Have a listen - great song.

Album:  Yellow Moon

SISTER ROSA PARKS

by The Neville Brothers

December 1, 1955, our freedom movement came alive. And because of Sister Rosa you know, we don’t ride on the back of the bus no more.

Sister Rosa Parks was tired one day
after a hard day on her job.
When all she wanted was a well deserved rest
Not a scene from an angry mob.
A bus driver said, "Lady, you got to get up
cuz a white person wants that seat."
But Miss Rosa said, "No, not no more.
I’m gonna sit here and rest my feet."

Chorus
Thank you Miss Rosa, you are the spark,
You started our freedom movement
Thank you Sister Rosa Parks.
Thank you Miss Rosa you are the spark,
You started our freedom movement
Thank you Sister Rosa Parks.

Now, the police came without fail
And took Sister Rosa off to jail.
And 14 dollars was her fine,
Brother Martin Luther King
knew it was our time.
The people of Montgomery sit down to talk
It was decided all gods’ children should walk
Until segregation was brought to its knees
And we obtain freedom and equality, yeah

Chorus
Thank you Miss Rosa, you are the spark,
You started our freedom movement
Thank you Sister Rosa Parks.
We’ll sing it again
Thank you Miss Rosa, you are the spark,
You started our freedom movement
Thank you Sister Rosa Parks.

So we dedicate this song to thee
for being the symbol of our dignity.
Thank Sister Rosa Parks.
Chorus 2x

[Steph]

Hmm, I have live all over the US and e specially in the south, but the most prejudice I ever knew and heard was the 10 years around Boston, Ma.. Now that city really really has hates.. I was appalled at what I would hear.. Not just black, but Irish as well. Amazing.  I lived in Columbia, SC and although this was the late 50's and it was not yet integrated, there was a good deal of gentle civility involved. I know that bad things also happened, but I was impressed with the caring of so many of the people. Southerners also do not take well to what they perceive as outsiders telling them what they do wrong..

[Babi]

  WELCOME, FAIRANNA.  We're only doing 'Three Day Wonders' for the month of October, but
you'll have a chance to comment on at least three more topics.
   Annna & Mahlia, the civil rights movement is certainly the most high profile example of protest against unjust laws in our day. I would say it is the most historically significant for America since the American Revolution.
  STEPH, offhand I would say there is no group that really appreciates an outsider coming
in an telling them they're wrong.  Unfortunately, in some situations, there is no one
else they're going to hear it from.  Attitudes that are inculcated from childhood are
very hard to dislodge.
  Another unjust law that irks me )though I'm not sure technically that it is a law),
is the right of senators to vote themselves pay raises and outrageous retirement income,
and no one can do a thing about it.

[mabel1015j]

Babi - you reminded me of a senator's right to block any appointment, that's nothing more than an ego booster-"I'm doing it, because I have the power to do it." apparently that has happened to hundreds of Obama's nominations, so those positions remain vacant........Jean 

[fairanna]

Unfortunately it seems CONGRESS can write any law they wish ............and in my  opinion the  Constitution never was meant for lifetime service but an opportunity for a term or two service and that would allow someone else to SERVE his country
Mahalia I visited every since I was six and my Aunt Nora and Uncle Reed included me in all their month long vacations to many states and all the wonders of travel I had to keep a journal but it whet my appitite for travel and when I married he was a young man from PA who was going to school on the GI bill was in ROTC and eventually became a pilot in the USAF ..the places I didnt visit with my relatives I did with my husband including 4 years in Europe where we moved 3 times and saw much of Europe and 2 years on Okinawa The military was intregated and that felt RIGHT TO ME>>I defended Muslims when thd Oklahoma disaster occured  because we didnt know right away but I think it unfair to say someone did something  until we know the truth ..and I think tatooing became popular becasuse of WWII  all the men who sailed to battle and crossed  I am not sure but the meridian had a choice  either get a tatoo or wear an earing...my husband chose earing  but when you realize WWll was barely over than we were involved in Korea and then Viet Nam  I think those that served in those wars just followed the  custom of tatooing since my knew people who had them One person I know who had a tatoo from WWll said when I asked him about his tatoo he said it was a mistake lol he didnt want one but everyone was getting one and he just followed them My one son and his wife who are very successful have tatoos  he has a goose taking off on a fall evenng on the biceps of one arm and his wife had a small rose on her shoulder BUT he investigated to make sure the artist was registred and licensed and took proper precautions  The only other child of mine  (0ut 0f 4  2 0f each) the youngest girl decided to get a belly ring which became infected so that was the end of that..I know I rode on the back of a motorcyle when I was 16 and my mother never objected which still surprises me  ...looking forward to the  3 day discussions   anna

[mabel1015j]

Our son had heard us make disparaging comments re: tattoos, but I hadn't talked to him about them directly. Apparently they were the rage of the college football team he was on. When he came home for the summer I saw him and his Dad having a conversation in his bedroom. When I stopped in, he showed me his tattoo - it was our anniversary, he had gotten a tat that looked like the "ring" around the bicep that I had seen the guys wearing; I said "ohhhh"in a negative tone of voice........then he said "look, mom".......and it was my name and my husband's name around the bicep........what could I say? It almost made me cry........Jean

[JoanP]

 

Our  Eleventh Topic:      3 DAY WONDERS - topics and articles provided every three days by YOU, our readers.   Seventh topic - Oct.19 ~ What Should Be Done about Bad Judge Decisions ? Judicial Mis-rule What Can the Public Do with a Bad Judge? How supreme is a judge's power in his own court? What recourse do we we have when a judge abuses that power

 

Contact:   Babi - (Head Honcho)  

[Steph]

I would guess my first question is who decides what is a bad decision. I have certainly seen some, especially in Florida, but I know people who think the Surpreme court made all sorts of bad decisions .. They werent bad, but only what the people did not want.

[Babi]

 STEPH,  you can click on "Judicial Misrule" above and find the item that triggered this topic.
 Or...this would likely be quicker... here it is:  http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10680963

   Oh, drat!! I had another link that listed legal recourse in case one wants to appeal a judicial  ruling, but when I re-checked the site it was no longer available. I tried to find something similar, but with no luck. >:

 Have any of you run into courtroom decisions that raised your ire?  Was anything done about
them?
  

[kiwilady]

Too many people here get name suppression. I get absolutely riled about it. The link above especially riled me!

[Steph]

We do have some extremely odd judges here in Florida. Anytime you get to vote for who you want as judge, you get popularity contests.

[Babi]

 I do know we have the right in our courts to appeal a juge's ruling.  Sometimes, unfortunately,
a judge will rule out of his own views, mood, etc.   Judges have been known to take an action
just because they felt like it and they could.
 If the decision handed down by a jury is appealed, it can only be reviewed on the basis of a point of law; the judge's legal rulings.  The jury's verdict cannot be appealed.
  Carolyn says name suppression happens often in New Zealand.  I don't know of any instance
where that has happened here, but it may have.  Anyone know??  It seems odd to permit name
suppression to people who have been found guilty of something.  You would think public safety
required letting people know.  Can you imaging suppressing the name of a known child molester,
for instance?

[Ella Gibbons]

I just read the above ruling by a New Zealand Court and I have never heard of such a thing as "name suppression" in a court.  It shouldn't happen.  That court decision should have been appealed to a higher court in my opinion where another judge could have made a better decision. 

The public has a right to know - well, that is, except in newspaper articles where we are always reading such phrases as "allegedly" or "informed opinion" etc.  However, that differs greatly from  court opinion.

[JoanP]

3 DAY WONDERS - topics and articles provided every three days by YOU, our readers.   Eighth topic - Oct.22 ~ Don't Ask, Don't Tell? Don't Ask, Don't Tell - No Longer In Effect -  for Now  Judge reaffirms ruling allowing gays into military  Pentagon trying to change culture to allow gays What do you think?

 

Contact:  Babi - (Head Honcho) 

[Babi]

 Oh, dear, it looks like I lost my last post on the subject of unfair rulings by judges.  It included a
link about instances in which a name might be suppressed in American courts.  I can't find that
one, but here is a current item on changes that may be coming.  http://www.simpsongrierson.com/latest-publications/

 Now, on to the topic that's been hot the past week..."Don't ask. Don't tell."  This has always
seemed a reasonable approach to me.  It means first of all that the subject is not everybody's
business,  and secondly, it tended to protect such soldiers from the abuse of some of their
fellow soldiers.  The military wanted to drop this policy.  And apparently the more 'militant' of
the gay community wanted more openness.  For very different reasons, apparently.
  There can be no argument that a gay soldier can be as courageous and reliable a battle comrade as any other.  That has been thoroughly demonstrated.  So the problem is...?

[maryz]

Don't ask, don't tell did sound reasonable - but it failed when people were "not telling", but got "outed" for some reason or another.  In any case, IMO, it should be a non-issue.  Just like whether or not someone has red hair or is of a different ethnic background.  It's not like being gay is something that's a choice.

[Steph]

 Yes, Y es, Mary Z.. It is maddening that this is an issue. It is simply not partof what we choose to do for a living. Soldiers are just like everyone else and should have the priviledge or acting and loving whoever they want.. The military of course is almost always extremely macho..and conservative.
But if I were gay and in the military, I would be very very quiet until this is settled.

[Babi]

 I agree with MARY & STEPH, this should be a non-issue, but that viewpoint is fairly recent for
our country.  And as STEPH so accurately pointed out, the military tends to be a very 'macho'
outfit.  I can't help but feel that an in-your-face approach by the gay community is the most
practical or useful approach.  Attitudes are changing.  Perhaps they should give it a little more time.

[Ella Gibbons]

I agree with all of you!  But particularly with BABI when she said -   "Attitudes are changing.  Perhaps they should give it a little more time. "

Why is that so?  Is it the fundamental change in our religious background?

There was a time, perhaps there is still, when bible verses were quoted when the subject came up.  My sister was one of those and I'm not sure about a change in her attitude .  We learned (I learned?) a long time ago not to discuss religion with her or her husband and as she lives in AZ and I see her infrequently, although we email, it is not a problem.

The younger generation are more relaxed, more liberal, and sometimes I wonder if that is good or not, but their attitude toward gay people has my support. Why would gay folk want to be gay?  It's a hard life and it is not a choice with them, I believe.

[mabel1015j]

Babi - the problem w/ DADT is not whether the soldier wants or doesn't want his/her fellow soldiers to know he/she is gay, the problem is that if the soldier says he/she is gay they can be discharged from the service. It's still not acceptable to be gay under DADT. Many European countries have "allowed" gays to serve for yrs, even decades, with no problems.

All of the arguments against gays have been the same as they were against integrated forces when Harry Truman said the forces would be  racially integrated,  and when women were to be integrated into the services: "they will be a distraction", "enlisted personnel will not take orders from__________", "it will destroy teamwork of the service", etc. etc.  Some of that has been true, but when your superiors say "this is what I expect you to do," it happens. The army was the first truly racially intergrated institution in the country, and altho the navy, in particular, has had major problems of harassment of women, it hAppened because navy officers did not make it clear your career was on the line if that was you didn't follow policy.

Jean  

[serenesheila]

In my opinion, homosexuals are just normal human beings.  The DADT is one more form of discrimination.  The attitude of our country, until recently, has been both hurtful and unfair to gays.  I believe that God made us all, and some of us are straight, and others are gay.  I really do not care who someone else decides to love, and live with.  I prefer no public display of foreplay by anyone.

Sheila

[Steph]

Oh Sheila, I am with you. I so dislike public displays,, gay ... straight..whatever.. Try hard to simply act normal.. Save the passion for private.. It would be soooonice.

[Babi]

 Good point, JEAN.  This is not the first time 'integration' has been an issue in the
armed forces. Actually, I can understand why that would be so.  Where being able to
depend on the person watching your back is so vital, people would naturally be reluctant
at introducing an unknown quantity. Each new group has had to demonstrate their reliability
as well as their ability. I think the latest 'group' has certainly done that on the
battlefields.  So the remaining issue is - what?  Personal and social?
 I note your point about Navy officers not making it clear harrassment would not be
tolerated. The "official" stnce needs to change.
  You are right, ELLA. While there may be some people of a mindset where 'anything goes',
for the most part sexual orientation is not a choice. And it's been around as long as
people have existed, apparently.  For those who take the religious stand that "God
did not create them Adam and Steve",  I would point out that Christ said "some are born
eunuchs".  That's the only thing Jesus ever said that remotely touched on the subject.
    I think SHEILA summed it up very nicely

.."God made us all".

And yes, please, please, please, save swarming all over one another for a private arena!
I can't help believing people who do that are deliberately amusing themselves with in-your-face
behavior.

[ANNIE]

I can't help but wonder if we really understand why this is so important to the gay community. The only thing accomplished here (and its so important) is that the gays in the military can admit to their their gayness and not be thrown out of the service.

Jean has mentioned that they do now get thrown out for other rule breaking but that the real reason is that they have been found out to be gay. 

Its a disgrace that we can't admire the bravery that it takes to join the military and protect our country while trying to hide their preferences in social and private lives.  So the gays are doubly brave.

To say they have a choice is another slap in the face.  Who would choose to be gay? 

[mabel1015j]

I worked for Dept of Army for two decades, starting in the 80's when the status of women was being decided. By that time Black males had made it to general officer status. There were still people who discriminated against Blacks, therefore the need for EEO offices that investigated any charges, but if the commander/chief of staff emphasized equality, that was the policy of the installation.

 I heard more than one male service member say "the best commander I ever had was a woman at..........." I heard the argument from older officers saying that men would be trying to protect women on their team in combat. I heard a woman who trained helicopter pilots - at the time she couldn't fly copters in combat, but she could train men to fly in combat - say if her copter went down the guys in her team would step on her to get out. She was laughing about it, but made her point. Because she wasn't allowed to be in combat she was less likely to get promoted than a male.

One day, about 1984, the commander, a general in his 50's, in the casual atmosphere of the officer's club, said, gleefully, to me "well, we got rid of the army 'qu...' today." A gay man on an installation a thousand miles away had been publicly dishonorably discharged that day. It seemed a huge over reaction to me, but perhaps typical for that time.

Service personnel in uniform are not allowed to touch another in uniform, other than handshakes, so public displays will not be a problem. There would probably be as much sexual harassment as heterosexuals have had; women have learned how to handle that in most cases, so men should be able to learn how also. .............Jean   

[Steph]

 I have read enough stories about Iraq, etc and our females being harassed to make me wondor about military life and women in a war zone.. I would guess it comes from the macho nonsense that they love to spread around.. Too many rapes of other service people.
The nonsense of living in barracks with gays is silliness. Gays are not really into coming on to straights..

[Babi]

JEAN, once again you have touched on a key point

...if the commander/chief of staff
emphasized equality, that was the policy of the installation.

  I have observed that to be true in most any institution. The head man/woman and the
staff leadership set the tone. I worked for years as a nursing home inspector, and
who occupied the Administrators and DON's position made all the difference in what we
found. 
  If the military really wants to find a solution to this problem, it would seem that the place
to begin would be with their own senior echelons.  And perhaps this is what ANNIE was saying, as to why this current push for a change is so important to the gay community.  They feel the
time has come for the military to make that adjustment.
   

[JoanP]

3 DAY WONDERS - topics and articles provided every three days by YOU, our readers.   9th topic - Oct.25 ~ Campaign Mudslinging Mudslinging by Candidates (Columbus Dispatch)   ~~~ Does mudslinging before an election affect how you vote?  If so, in what way? Do you know how much is spent on these ads?  How better to use the money?

 

Contact:  Babi - (Head Honcho) 

[Babi]

 AH, YES.  It's Monday, the 25th, and we have a new topic on the board.  Political mudslinging!
  We're seeing far more of it in the gubernatorial campaign here in Texas, and I'm really fed up
with it.  Perry started it, and my first reaction was "If that's all he can find to say about Bill White
the guy must be a near saint!"   More was coming, tho', and White felt forced to retaliate in kind.
Wasted money? You know it!   
   I take a jaundiced view of all poliical ads.  Have you noticed how the photos always seem to
support the charges being made?   The ad-men have hundreds of photos of every person who
is regularly in the news.  They run through them and pick a photo image that seems to fit their
needs.  That grimace you see on a candidate's face might have been an incipient sneeze!
Personally, the nastier a candidate gets, the more I like his opponent.

[pedln]

Like the author of the article, I too am fed up with political races.  And I really can't ever remember a MID-TERM election like this.  Yes, of course it is the OTHER party; they're so gross. But I also blame the media. It's like there is nothing else to talk about.

And frankly, Babi, no offense meant, but I really don't need to hear so much about the political races in Texas, and I don't want to, nor in Ohio, or MIchigan or a million other places. If the witch in Deleware loses, who's even going to remember her.  It really blew my mind when Meet the Press, which I like so much, had a debate between two senatorial candidates from some state that I don't remember.

As for the political mail, it goes in the recycling box where it might do some good.  I don't need biased sources for my information.

I would like to see t his country governed, but right now it seems impossible.

[Ella Gibbons]

AREN'T WE ALL SICK - JUST SO SICK OF THEM?  THESE TERRIBLE NEGATIVE ADS!!   THEY SEEM WORSE THIS YEAR AND DEFINITELY ARE TURNING UP MORE OFTEN ON TV AS WE HEAR HOW MUCH MORE MONEY IS BEING SPENT ON THEM.

IF JUST ONE CANDIDATE WOULD SAY THAT HE/SHE WAS GIVING HIS/HER SHARE OF CAMPAIGN SPENDING TO A GOOD CAUSE THAT PERSON WOULD GET MY VOTE.

IF OBABA GOT OUT THE WORD ON THE INTERNET THAT HIS CAMPAIGN NEEDED MONEY (AND HE DID AND HE GOT IT) THEN THE INTERNET IS THE WAY TO GO WITH THIS, I THINK.

So we must - everywhere - blogging, whatever - state our views on these negative ads.

[Persian]

There was a recent article in our local newspaper which illustrated how one couple - both retired and dealing with major health issues - continue to "reach out" to help the community.  They have limited incomes (as do thousands in the USA now), will not receive an increase in either their SS checks or pensions (which applies across the USA), but STILL want to contribute (as they are able) to help others.  The fellow, now getting around in a wheel chair, and the wife walking with a cane and having to take several "rest periods" each day, volunteer a few hours at a couple of local sites:  helping to refinish donated furniture (he) and preparing modest lunches (she) for folks who need food.  They have given up some of their "treats" in order to use the $$ for donations to their church and a couple of local charities.  The article ended with the couple assuring the readers that they would continue to contribute time and $$ as long as possible, because "it's the right thing to do for us."  They also mentioned that although they try to stay as informed as possible RE the nominees for their local elected offices, they are "truly confused" about whom to vote for, since there seemed to be so much controversy among the candidates.
My kind of folks!

Mahlia

[maryz]

We mute all commercials, but are particularly glad to have the mute-button during political season.  I never pay any attention to anything of that stuff.  I think all political ads should be limited to the six week prior to an election.  And none of that stuff influences my vote (which I've already cast during our early voting period). 

Wouldn't it be wonderful if all that money that's being spent on TV ads were spent to help communities?!?!

p.s.  I'm loving these 3-day discussions!  Thanks.

[ANNIE]

And that's the truth, Persian.  Many of the younger folks feel the same way.  My dr's secretary, at age 50 or less, remarked to me last week, that she will not be voting this year because she doesn't know who is right in the battles that are streaming onto our TV's and in the newspapers plus YouTube, blogs,
Twitter, etc etc!  It is really a mess here in our state.  We have 8 independants, well, Libertarians running for the bigger offices and one wonders what that will cause over all.  I have no idea what Libertarians stand for so looked it up and its the same political jargon that the other parties use.  Lower taxes, smaller government and one other that I forget. 

[mabel1015j]

The incredible part of this issue is that EVERYONE says they hate negative commercials, but apparently they work!?! I'm sure campaigns have "focus grouped" potential commercials and gotten results that lead them to be negative........Jean

[FlaJean]

We also use that MUTE button for most ads and all political ads.  We voted early with no input from TV or Internet ads.  All those millions of dollars used for the political ads could be a lot of help to food banks, etc.

[Ella Gibbons]

Yes, JEAN, I have heard they work also!  On whom, I wonder?

Like PEDLIN stated, I, too, throw all the paper political junk that comes in my mailbox away!  I mute the commercials also if I see them.  One night about 4 weeks ago I called Time Warner and got HBO and ShowTime on my TV, neither of which I had ever had, and there are NO COMMERCIALS - just programming.  Some I like, some not, but NO COMMERCIALS!

It's wonderful, so I will not watch any of the news programs, which are saturated with political news, or the other programs at all.

It seems as if America is too puffed up right now with itself and has forgotten that there is a world outside its borders and that the public would like to be informed as to what is going on.

[Persian]

We tend to watch the international news (airs at 6:30 our time on 3 national stations and at 11 p.m. on the BBC), but NOT the local news.  The latter is just plain too gory almost every night:  numerous child molestations (by men AND women, as well as young pre-teens and teens), attacks on women of varying ages in public places, kidnapping, murder and mutilation of the bodies.  I learned several years ago, when we first relocated to our current home (about 20 miles NE of Charlotte, NC) that there seemed to be much more horrific types of crime hereabouts than what I recalled from other areas in which I've lived.

In the past few months, as the local folks are getting ready for their elections as well as preparing for the National ones, the stories of the "past history" of elected officials have become truly gruesome.  I wonder if it is just the region or have I truly had my head in the clouds all these years?  The types of crimes seem to be so terribly heinous - some that I think of in relation to ancient times, NOT the current world we live in. 

Mahlia