Classics Book Club, The

[ginny]

Welcome to

The Classics Book Club,  a forum for reading in translation  those timeless classics written by ancient authors you always meant to get around to but never have. We've done the Iliad, and the Odyssey.....but what of the Aeneid?  Aeschylus? Euripides?  Plutarch?

Cleopatra is all the rage currently, with two new books and a claim her palace in Alexandria has just been found, she's hot. Why? Do what Shakespeare did and read the original sources, a world of incredible fascination and insights awaits.

We'll begin discussing and nominating the contenders January 1, we'll vote January 15 for one week and we'll begin discussing part of the book (which you'll determine first) February 15.

 Bring all your background materials, we'll desperately need them,  and join us on an unforgettable enriching adventure! Dust off those old moldy books you always intended to read and join our merry band of adventurers in our new venture: The Classics Book Club, coming January 1!

Everyone is welcome!  

  

Discussion Leaders:  Joan K & ginny  

[ginny]

Welcome! Pull up a chair in front of the fire, and help us decide on our first selection in our newest book club  for the new year. As you can see in the heading we're all about those timeless ancient classics we've all heard of, we've all intended (vaguely) to read and  meant to get around to, but somehow they remain impressively on our shelves.  Let's dust them off! Most in fact are free on the internet or for free download in an e-reader.  They have influenced the Western world in uncountable ways, let's join the rest of history and read them, too.

Starting in January 1, we'll begin nominating (and even better) discussing potential candidates, which will it be? And WHY?

 The Aeneid? Aeschylus? Euripides? Cicero? We last read the Odyssey here in 1996, I led it, it was our first Great Book in the series. 1996 was a long time ago and there are some great new translations out, let's throw IT into the pile,  too.  We've done the Iliad fairly recently so we should leave it off.

We'll vote January 15-22 and then select what section we want to start with and begin February 15.  Bring your translations, we hope they are ALL different:  you'll be amazed how different they really are. We long to compare them!  If you can read the original of  whatever we pick, please add your insights, and as always in our book discussions,  we want your research, your background info,  and your true reactions. Don't hold anything back!

Give yourself the gift of reading the classics which shaped our world this winter! Join Joan K and me on our voyage to the past January 1.

Let us know if you will join us in this great adventure!

[roshanarose]

Χαίρετε

Oh goodie - a new Classics site.

May I nominate the works of Aristophanes, esp "Lysistrata", and Suetonius "The Twelve Caesars"?

[rosemarykaye]

What a great idea!  I haven't read a Latin author since I was 18 - I will look on my shelves and see what I have, I am looking forward to this.  And good point about Shakespeare - did he not get a lot of his material from Plutarch, or have I just made that up?

Rosemary

[PatH]

It's definitely a great idea.  I'm eager to go.

[Dana]

I suggest Daphnis and Chloe a very lyrical and totally delightful novel by Longus which I am presently (boast, boast) reading in Greek. 
Goethe said, "The book is so beautiful that amid the bad circumstances in which we live we cannot retain the impression we receive from it, but are astonished anew every time we read it..............it would be well to read it every year, to be instructed by it again and again, and to receive anew the impression of its great beauty."
Well when I first read that I thought  ...hyperbole.....(or, actually, what a bunch of bs).......but......he's right.

[ginny]

Yahooie! Welcome, Roshannarose, Rosemarykaye,  and PatH!  It's holiday gift  to see you all here already!! I know Joan K is on the way in, too, this is quite exciting!

Yes you sure can, Roshansarose, we won't officially start taking nominations until  January 1, and when that day comes, we hope you'll tell us (1) something about each book, and (2) more importantly, what about that book commends itself to YOU? Why would you like to read it or  see us read it?

I love discussions of the contenders, sometimes after people get through making a case for a particular book, if it does not win the first time, I find myself reading it anyway. This is very exciting.

Oh and do translate  Χαίρετε? Is it hello?  I can see you'll be invaluable if we read a  Greek author, yahoo!!  When delivering Mobile Meals for years I learned a little Greek from the gentleman who ran the restaurant which cooked the meals,  hahaha I got good at Yasou,  and how are you and some short replies. I could not master thank you, or was it excuse me, but that was the pitiful extent of it, it was SO fun, but I must have had a pretty good accent because when I'd call him on the phone he'd pause and launch into fluent Greek.

Rosemarykaye,  I think that's true of a lot of us, not having read the ancients in translation since a young age, when we had to.   This is going to be great because everything means more to me now than it did when I was 18. AND you can understand things more, I think. I could be wrong, we're about to find out. hahahaa It's just a different focus, based on life experiences,  do you all agree or not?

Yes Shakespeare (and I'm no Shakespeare scholar, we need one to jump in here) apparently drew heavily from Plutarch for his Julius Caesar, Antony and Cleopatra, and Coriolanus, for 3. I'm a total Plutarch freak anyway, but I keep leaning back to the Odyssey which we've not done in  15 years in 2011, what a story!  AND anxiously looking at the  Aeneid which we've never done here at all. The Aeneid scares me, I'll be honest, but we've had more requests for it than any other.... but...er.....let's see what YOU all think.

Wasn't it Shakespeare who said "little Latin and less Greek?" I'm ashamedly Week on the Greeks,  tho Plutarch is a Greek, and I hope to, when we're through, have learned a lot I can use. At least I will know when a reference is made to "Frogs," what those in the know are talking about! (I hope?)  That's such a good feeling!!

Welcome, ALL!

[ginny]

Dana!! Welcome, welcome!! Another Greek scholar, whoopee! Reading in Greek, you go, girl, boast away, that's wonderful and that's some kind of recommendation:

Goethe said, "The book is so beautiful that amid the bad circumstances in which we live we cannot retain the impression we receive from it, but are astonished anew every time we read it..............it would be well to read it every year, to be instructed by it again and again, and to receive anew the impression of its great beauty."

OK that's a perfect example of the wonders to await us! That one would never have been  on my list except for this discussion, but that description sure makes me wonder what I have missed, thank you so much and welcome!

This is very exciting, isn't it?


 Welcome, All!~

[Gumtree]

Wow~! The Classics Book Club  - I love it already ...

 - thanks Ginny such a great idea.   When you think of it there is such a wealth of classic literature. I love the Greek tragedians Aeschylus, Euripides and Sophocles - but I wasn't around when you did Iliad and Odyssey so Homer is high on the list and Tacitus and Cicero and Pliny and ... and... and...  are also begging for attention. What a tin of worms you've opened -
Whatever we decide upon I'll be here to read along.

Ginny~  This is the most perfect gift.  Thank you.

[ginny]

Gum!! Welcome, welcome, thank you and yes won't this be the grandest thing for the new year? I am quite excited about it. And...and...and, that's my feeling too!

AND why not?

So glad you're here!
Welcome, All!~

[JoanK]

Here I am, late as usual

I have always wanted to read the classics without any teachers hanging around grading me. And to be able to talk about them with friends. I read some of the Greek dramatists and Homer when I was younger, but never had anyone I could talk  to about them until the winderful discussion we had of the Iliad a few years ago. It remains one of the highlightws of my years at Seniornet.

I feel very strongly about the literature of the people who came before us. These books are our heritage. OURS! Left for us for 2000 years. WE decide what to do with them: love them, or use them to wrap the garbage. Pass them on to our children, or throw them away. But how can we decide if we don't READ them? So I'm going to pull up a comfy chair, have some hot cocoa, and decide what these Greeks and Romans were all about. Will we let them into our homes or not? Are they like us or not? I can't wait to find out.

[JoanK]

On second thought, what would the Romans have drunk while sitting around discussing books? Not hot cocoa, thats for sure.

[rosemarykaye]

Ginny - as for being afraid of the Aeneid - I had to translate Book VI (I think it was that one) for A-level Latin, and there were some parts that we (there were only 3 of us in the class) simply could not do.  I vividly remember memorising chunks of the Loeb translation, and thank goodness I did, as one of the passages I never could do turned up in the exam - I churned out "And deep inside the vaulted halls ring with women's wails" without a single clue as to which word related to which Latin one.  Thankfully I passed.

Rosemary

[ginny]

Joan, I loved what you wrote and thought about it all day, what, indeed, good DOES it do us if we don't read them? That's a powerful post, and I loved this, too: But how can we decide if we don't READ them? So I'm going to pull up a comfy chair, have some hot cocoa, and decide what these Greeks and Romans were all about. Will we let them into our homes or not? Are they like us or not? I can't wait to find out.

Rosemarykaye, what a hoot, you and the Loeb! "And deep inside the vaulted halls ring with women's wails," I sure am glad you got the right passage!  hahaha

Someday I hope somebody will explain to me what "A Levels" and "O Levels" are because I really don't know and you come across them all the time in reading, but nobody will explain them or what they mean?

Is an A Level better than an O? Is O for Ordinary or Outstanding? And passing will ....?

I was thinking today how exciting this discussion is, we've got you from Scotland, TWO Australians, two on the East Coast and one on the West Coast, and we've just started! I can't help thinking what a rich experience this  seems  to be shaping up as, with such diversity of geographic locations alone.

  Welcome, welcome, All!

[JoanR]

I"m so happy to find this discussion!!  It's just what I've been wishing for and never thought could happen!  There is just no other way that I would
be able to find such a group with which to discuss and enjoy the classic literature.

What a gift!

Dana spoke so highly of Daphnis and Chloe that I shot over the field to our library and found it in a George Braziller edition with magnificent illustrations by Chagall.  The translation is by George Moore.  The book is huge, huge because of the many color plates which makes it a lot to tote around but the large clear print is certainly welcome.  The library clerk said that it hadn't been checked out in a long time so I think that I'd better keep taking it out myself lest it be cruelly discarded - you know how that works!  I've already started it and I will be reading this even if it doesn't make the cut for discussion!

Thanks so  much for initiating this and for pointing me in this direction!!!

I had been thinking of nominating the "Aeneid" since I have it (also the audiobook read by Simon Callow).  Been saving those for a discussion someday.  Another thing I'm interested in is Seneca and his letters

[roshanarose]

I loved reading everyone's messages today.  I lived in a Greek dictionary for four years, but I have forgotten so much through lack of use.  I need a gorgeous Greek for pillow talk

ginny - I am just wandering over to my bookcase and have my Liddell and Scott "Greek-English Lexicon", classical Greek that is, at hand.  It nestles in my hands, so happy to be looked into after languishing for at least a year on my bookshelf, neglected. Χαίρετε is a very formal greeting for any time of day, which makes it so much easier to remember, rather than having to look at your watch to see if it Καλημέρα (Good morning), Καλησπέρα (used after midday) or Καληνύχτα (the final good night).  There are several other greetings according to formality, informality etc..  Καλλί is an ancient Greek root meaning beautiful (note the double lamda).  Modern Greek has changed this to καλη meaning beautiful as well.  The accent changes place according to the number of syllables in the word.  Every Greek word has an accent with just a few exceptions.  You have to learn them as well.  The masculine adjective καλός means good or fair (not blonde) in both MG and AG.  Phew!  In AG χαίρ- is the root word for το Greet, in MG Χαίρ is the same with the -ετε ending an indicator of the formal "you".  Yes, it is a verb.  Greek puts I, you,he/she/it at the end of the root word.  Put them together and you have Χαίρετε = I greet you.  I have attempted to simplify that explanation for you, but it isn't easy to simplify anything in Greek   btw the way χαίρετε is pronounced hairete with the first letter pronounced similarly to the ch in loch.  ete needs to be  pronounced very clearly as et-e, not "eat".  

Dana - more power to you for reading the Greek.  It is easier to read than explain.

[Gumtree]

Thanks Dana for reminding me of Daphnis and Chloe. Haven't read that one for about half a century. I haven't a copy but will rectify that pretty soon.

I woke this morning thinking about how much some of this great literature has impacted on western culture - this one piece - Daphnis & Chloe - has had an immense impact and influence on great thinkers and writers over centuries, - it's been retold many times and is still being reworked today - and it's been rendered into all sorts of other art forms -  paintings, sculptures,  ballet, opera ...

This board is going to be HOT

[Dana]

yes , I do hope the translation comes across.  Struggling away with the Greek makes me appreciate and dwell on every word practically so I wonder sometimes if that gives it all more significance.  i haven't read it in Englsh and sort of am afraid to in case it spoils it, it is so simple and pure somehow, and I like the way the animals have feelings too.  The description of Chloe falling in love is gorgeous.  i'll be translating it for a long time though, as I'm only half way thru book 1.
 I have read several versions of The Iliad (translations) but never The Odyssey, so that's a  personall to do--anone interested?

[kidsal]

Aeneid (Fagles and Fitzgerald translations) has been sitting on my shelf for a long time!!  Greek and Roman tragedies and comedies (particularly like Euripedies)

I mourn our loss of Greek instruction.  Still have all my Athenaze on my computer in the hopes I will get back to it!




Am ready to read!!!

[ginny]

Joan R! Welcome, welcome! I love this:

 I'm so happy to find this discussion!!  It's just what I've been wishing for and never thought could happen!  There is just no other way that I would
be able to find such a group with which to discuss and enjoy the classic literature.

What a gift

The response here certainly seems like one to me!  I am so glad to see you here, too!

hahaha,  Sally!! Welcome, maybe we should adopt that image as US, with our To Be Read lists.

That certainly depicts me and those classics I've Always Intended to Read. hahaha Welcome!

Dana, that's the thing about translations, they are ALL so different.  I was looking back over about 5 different  Aeneid translations today and marveling at how many translators there have been and how different they are. All learned men, some of them unbelievably learned,  and yet so many different takes on the same words, it's amazing.

And I've been wondering, and we'll have to decide  once we discuss and vote in January on our February 15 first selection,  whether or not we WANT to all read the same translation or a million different ones. Perhaps if we don't have some common ground it might be confusing?  On the other hand,  we sure want to hear the alternatives, maybe from online, free?  So we can compare versions.

I really think it might make an exciting experiment to compare  as many as we can, because we can say, well from this paragraph I got that he was afraid, and somebody else could bring their version and say but no, that's not the slant I got here,  and we can decide as readers (hopefully somebody will have an annotated version) which captures it for us. I'm still trying to get over what Stanley Lombardo did with the Iliad.

We'll need to decide how important one common ground is. It may be very important, let's discuss that in January too. Lots to look forward to!


Roshannarose, I have to tell you after reading that I wanted to go get a copy of Athanaze and teach myself. Barbara always said one could do it.  I miss our Greek instruction, too, Sally.

Gum, I love that  post, it so captures the whole idea here.  Gosh this IS exciting, isn't it?


Welcome, All!

[roshanarose]

If you have mastered Latin; have lots of time; an active brain; patience to burn; and a lovely warm hearth - I hereby recommend these two books for Leaning Greek.  When and if you buy Greek books, it can be a bit confusing.  It may be entitled Classical or Ancient Greek or just Greek for the ancient language; the Bible was written in Koine, First Testament or Bible Greek; but Modern Greek is usually just entitled Modern Greek or Demotic.  The ones I have recommended below are Ancient Greek books.

"Reading Greek" Text published by Cambridge and put together by Joint Association of Classical Teachers Greek Course ISBN 0-521-21976-0.

and the accompanying

Reading, Grammar and Vocabulary Exercises text - "Reading Greek" same details as above, but ISBN 0-521-21977-9.

Also the Liddell and Scott Lexicon.

Good Luck
Καλή Τύχη

[Frybabe]

I absolutely do not want to miss this discussion group. I am so excited.

[ginny]

Frybabe! Welcome, welcome! So glad to see you here! What a super group assembling, what fun! Tell us how your exams are going? (Talk about going back and learning something new, you're doing something I would fail the first day in: Accounting!) How's it going? How much longer will you have to go to complete your courses of studies?

Roshanarose, thank you for those recommendations!  Unfortunately I don't meet half of the criteria you've posted, hahaa;  however, I do have curiosity and enthusiasm, and it sounds like something to look forward to this summer. Every now and then we have teachers of Greek enroll in our Latin programs. One of these days we'll see if they would like to oversee a  Learn Greek Workshop or something.

Latin and Greek in Translation is something offered by most universities to expose people to the great works of literature they may not have time or the ability  to read in the original, and since we can all read English with no difficulty, I am totally excited about this opportunity AND the people assembled here already, to whom Joan K and I hope to add a million more. JoanK, and Pat H, (they are our Gemini) don't I remember your own father was a famous translator (of Latin?)

Welcome, Everybody! You don't need to be able to read a word of Greek or Latin, to enjoy reading in English the greatest works the world has known. Or are they?  YOU will decide, from your own perspective; maybe they haven't held up?

On January 1 we'll begin discussing likely nominees and yes we'll definitely put the Odyssey back in the pot, it makes the X Men or whoever they are look pale by comparison!

If you are looking in and thinking, well I'd like to but looks daunting, don't be intimidated and let these 2000+ year old stories sit one more year on your shelf! Be like James T. Kirk and boldly go where nobody you know has gone in a long time: join us!

Everyone is welcome!

[JoanK]

I can't believe so many of us are ready "to boldly go". (At least, you can't split an infinitive in Latin. Can you in Greek?) This is going to be great.

GINNY: " JoanK, and Pat H, (they are our Gemini) don't I remember your own father was a famous translator (of Latin?)"

No, he had only schoolboy latin. He was a mathematician who was interested in the history of mathematics. Unfoertunately, the European early mathematicians by custom wrote in Latin. He, with the help of a priest translated a paper of the mathematician Descarte (the "I think, therefopre I am" guy) into English, and published it with a commentary.

My father was ill at the time, and I often served as his "legs". Thus my one encounter with Greek. Descarte used one greek word, and my father didn't know the meaning of it. So he sent me down to the Library of Congress (we lived in Washington) to see if I could find out. I know no Greek, and looking something up in a dictionary is very hard when you don't even know the alphabet. So I got the librarians there involved. It turned out to be a word that Descarte probably made up from the same word as Gymnastics comes from to mean mathematical exercises.

[rosemarykaye]

Ginny - when i was at school in London in the 1970s, you sat O-levels at the end of 5th year at secondary school, ie around the time you were 16.  It stood for "ordinary level" and in our rather bluestocking school most girls took at least 7 or 8.  I took 9 in 5th year and one early in 4th year (it was in fact "Greek Literature in Translation"!), and so did many other people.  A-levels (or "advanced levels") were taken two years later, at the end of second year, or upper,  6th.  Most people took 3, though people doing maths often did 4, with 2 of them being in different types of sums (what a thought).  I took French, English and Latin.

O-levels have now been renamed GCSEs  (I think it stands for General Certificate of Secondary Education).

In Scotland, of course, it's all different!  Pupils take Scottish Standard Grades at the end of 4th year (ie around the age of 15) - these are broadly equivalent to O-levels/GCSEs. They then take Scottish Highers at the end of 5th year - ie they only get one year to cram it all in.  Highers are set at a lower level than English A-levels and academic students would generally take 5, although many take fewer.  Scottish Advanced Highers are taken at the end of 6th year (students in Scotland spend only one year in 6th year, so they leave school younger than they would in England).  Advanced Highers are by no means compulsory, and many Scottish universities will base their offers on Highers results - this means that the better students tend to have a firm offer by the end of 5th year, and there is a lot of pointless (IMHO) messing about in 6th year as they pass the time waiting to go to university.

i hope that explains it a bit.  Just to make it more complicated, some of the private schools in Scotland (generally the poshest, often the boarding schools - eg Merchiston, Glenalmond, Strathallan) do not use the Scottish exam system, but instead do GCSEs and A-levels, partly because they think the courses are better, and partly, I imagine, because they think their pupils will have a better chance of getting into the more prestigious English universities with A-levels.  Then you have some who now offer the International Baccalaureate instead of either system!

Rosemary

[JoanK]

I had a friend who had come to America from England who, although very bright, had failed her "O-levels". She came here, went to college, and got a graduate degree.

She was very bitter -- she said there aren't enough university places in England for all who want to go, so kids are "weeded out" early (eleven). Here in the States, it's much easier to go to college, but the quality of the education varies a lot, and a college education means less.

In many US universities, beginning math classes are used to weed out students. My husband taught them when he was a graduate student, and was ordered to fail a high percentage of the students.

[roshanarose]

Ginny - Thanks for telling people that they did not have to know Greek or Latin to join this fine board.  Sorry if I frightened anyone

JoanK - I have never come across a split infinitive in Greek - this could have to do with the way "to" and verbs and nouns are written in Greek.  For example, in Greek the word "to" is actually attached to the noun it is describing (the accusative) or subject.  It looks a bit like this : tothe harbour.  The to = σε,the = το and (the harbour is a neuter noun so the article has to agree with it), and the harbour is λιμάνι.  So when written in full "to the harbour" translated into Greek is "στο λιμάνι".  Τhis construction does not have the flexibility that English has, so I am kind of guessing that an adverb could not be put between the preposition and the article.  Add the verb, eg I am going to the harbour in Greek it would be Πάω στο λιμανι. Having said that English is more flexible in its ability to split an infinitive, Greek has very flexible word order.  The accusative can appear anywhere in the sentence as it is always marked with a preposition attached, in other words the morphology of the sentence is changed, or may be recognised by context.  

When I was studying Ancient Greek the split infinitive was never mentioned.  The above examples are from Modern Greek.  I will keep an eye out for that split infinitive.

JoanK  - Do you have any easy questions ask about Greek?

If anyone would like to correct me, please do so.  I don't regard myself as a fully fledged Greek scholar by any means.  I haven't been asked this question before in class (thankfully)!

[roshanarose]

JoanK - It is even worse now in the UK as they are about to triple the Fees for University.  Shame, shame, shame Conservative government!

JoanK it would be good if you could remember Descartes' word that your father made you chase up.

[BarbStAubrey]

Oh my - this sounds great - a book we can get our teeth into - wonderful - I may not have as much time in Spring but January and early February look good - will Greek Dramas be considered? - I am thinking of Antigone that sits on my shelf now for years...

Found this site on the Top 200 College/University Rankings in the World Some rankings on the list surprised me - like the Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México come in third in the world with Stanford first and MIT second -

[Gumtree]

Barbara: The Antigone is just about my favourite of the greek tragedies. She and her sister Ismene are such absolute opposites -always reminds me of my sister and myself - we love each other to pieces but have almost nothing in common except our parents. Weird how these ancient texts speak to us isn't it.

[ginny]

Weird how these ancient texts speak to us isn't it.  Oh I think that's one of the main points! I hope we will find that to be the case this time, or will we?

Barbara, welcome, welcome! So glad to see you here, I know you will bring a wealth of information to the table as you always do!

Roshanarose, not at all,  I think it's fascinating!!!

Rosemarykaye, thank you for explaining the O and A Levels, I can see it's intricate but I am so glad to finally understand what they ARE. So these would be in aid of those going to college? Like our SAT's? And if one did not intend to go on to university then would one take them? I assume you have a choice of those subjects or is there some sort of criteria for taking, say,  Greek Literature in Translation?

OK A-levels (or "advanced levels") were taken two years later, at the end of second year, or upper,  6th.  Ok "upper, 6th," would that be the 12th year of school? In other words an 18 year old?  I'm trying to figure out the years here.  What year is the 5th year and 4th year chronologically? (I think we can see why nobody has ever ventured to explain this to me)

Children start school here at 6 years of age, that's the First Grade and they go thru the 12th grade in the public school systems (which are for everybody) and they graduate high school (either 9th grade -12th or 10th -12th grade)  usually at 18, some younger, some older.

I'm trying to figure out the ages involved in 4th year, etc. Thank you for explaining this!

[JoanK]

"JoanK it would be good if you could remember Descartes' word that your father made you chase up."

Sorry, it's gone (this was 30 years ago) just that it was close to the root of the word gymnasium.

Why this paper had never beeen translated is a funny story, and shows that scholarly research isn't always the ivory tower thing we might expect:

Descarte had gone to Sweden in his last years and died there. His papers were boxed up and sent to Paris by ship, to be stored in a museum there. But the ship sank in the River Seine.

Decarte's patron, horrified, had the boxes resued from the river and his maid hung the papers up on clotheslines to dry. Then they were repacked and stored.

But the patron died, and with him the knowledge of where these papers were. Decades later another mathematician (I think it was Poincare, but my senior memory is working here) heard of their existance, searched and found them.

He copied them: they were waterstained and almost unreadable, and Decarte's handwriting was terrible, but he did his best.

Then the originals were lost again, leaving only the partial copy, in Poincare's handwriting which was as bad as Descarte's, full of places where P couldn't make head or tail of the original.

My father had to decipher that, try to fill in where the original had been unreadable, and deal with Decarte's Latin, which was as bad as his handwriting. One wrong ending changes the whole meaning of a sentance: in ordinary life, the mistake may be obvious. In mathematics, it can send other mathematicians scurrying in the wrong direction, or rubbing their heads. "Why did he say that? He's Decarte after all --he couldn't just be wrong."  I think it helped that Dad wasn't a Latin scholar. "Oh, he makes the same kind of stupid Latin mistakes that I do."

[PatH]

If you want to see what the handwriting was like, here's a link:

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff125/PatriciaFHighet/Descartesp2_0001forexp.jpg

Turns out it was Leibniz, not Poincare.

[JoanK]

DUH! Of course it was.

I can't get the link to work. Might be my squirrelly computer.

[roshanarose]

I had a lecturer once who said that cuneiform was really where a bird had walked while the tablets were wet.  PatH - and that's exactly what that writing looked like in your link.

[Frybabe]

One wrong ending changes the whole meaning of a sentance

Right JoanK. I recently submitted an instructional paper with the last sentence saying, "Your masterpiece is not ready to display." It should have read, "Your masterpiece is now ready to display." My professor was not amused, and neither was I when I got my grade.

[PatH]

Joan, I'm guessing that the word was "Progymnasmata", which is in the title:



Here's Dad's transcript, parts not showing in my photo in parentheses.

Progymnasmata de Solidorum Elementis (excerpta ex Manuscripto Cartesii)

Angulus solidus rectus est qui octavum sphaerae partem (complectitur, etiamsi non , etc etc.  It's work just matching it up when you have the transcript.  The "s" is weird.

[PatH]

That's about the best I can do for you, Roshanarose.

And as you can see, some people will do anything to avoid starting in on their Christmas cards.

[roshanarose]

Inspired by your Cartesian story, I finished doing my Xmas cards today.

On the trail of Προγήμασμάτα.  Stay tuned. 

[Gumtree]

Great story PatH and JoanK. Thanks for putting up the photos. My DH enjoyed it too - he's maths mad. I read something by Descartes aeons ago - I remember taking it to the beach several times -  I don't suppose I read much of it there.