Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online

[PatH]

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Bleak House                            
by Charles Dickens

                   

Bleak House is the 10th novel by Charles Dickens, published in twenty monthly installments between March 1852 and September 1853. It is held to be one of Dickens's finest novels, containing one of the most vast, complex and engaging arrays of minor characters and sub-plots in his entire canon. The story is told partly by the novel's heroine, Esther Summerson, and partly by an omniscient narrator. The story revolves around the mystery of Esther Summerson's mother and it involves a murder story and one of English fiction's earliest detectives, Inspector Bucket. Most of all, though, the story is about love and how it can cut through human tangles and produce a happy ending. The house where Dickens lived spent summers with his family, beginning in 1850, is said to have inspired his novel of the same name.  Among others, he wrote David Copperfield in this house.

Nurse and Patient  (click to enlarge)

INSTALMENT X XI

DATE of PUBLICATION    Dec. 1852 Jan. 1853

CHAPTERS 30-32  33-35

DISCUSSION DATES Mar.31-Apr.4  April 5--Apr.9

The Appointed Time (click to enlarge)

               Some Topics to Consider

In this section we advance several of the previously started story lines, ending with a big plot development.  Again, if you've read ahead please be careful not to give anything away to the rest of us. Chapter  XXX  Esther's Narrative 1.  What do you make of Mrs. Woodcourt on her second visit?  What message is she conveying to Esther? 2. Mr. Jellyby and Mr. Turveydrop meet.  Were you surprised at the outcome?  What would you have expected? 3. What revealing remark does Mr. Jellyby make about marriage? 4. What impressed you most about Esther’s stay with the Jellybys and the preparations for the marriage? 5.  What do you think of Mr. Turveydrop’s gracious offer to Prince and Caddy? . Chapter XXXI  Nurse and Patient 1. Where do you see another portent of evil to come in a Dickens description?   2.  We meet Jenny and her friend again.  What do you believe Dickens is saying in all he presents to us in these wretchedly poor women? 3.   Where would you place Charley in your list of memorable Dickens characters?  How would you describe her?   4 .  Why do you think Dickens chose this outcome of Esther’s illness?   Chapter XXXII  The Appointed Time     The scene changes, and we are returned to London.    1. What is the ‘appointed time’ to which the title refers? 2. How does the conversation of the gossipy, respectable ladies of Dickens' day compare with ours? 3.  What has Krook promised to turn over to Weevle and Guppy?  What is their significance? 4.  Is Weevle quite as naive as he seems?  Why do you think so? 5. What is the thick, nauseous yellow liquid?  How did it get on Weevle’s window sill, since his room is at the top of the house?

 

Related Links:
 Characters in Bleak House by Groups;  Map of London  1851 (double click); UNSOLVED MYSTERIES ; Interactive Map of London

 

                                                  

Bleak House  "A dreary name," said the Lord Chancellor. "But not a dreary place at present, my lord," said Mr. Kenge.

DLs:  JoanP, Marcie, PatH, Babi,   JoanK  

[Jonathan]

XXIX 2.  Lady Dedlock keeps her icy detachment no matter what.  Is this good?

What a turn around for Lady Dedlock. From icy detachment to a 'cry going upward from a wild figure on its knees'...'O my child, my child! Not dead as I was told!

Ths from the woman, who we were told in Chapter 2, 'If she could be translated to Heaven to-morrow, she might be expected to ascend without any rapture.'

Life with Sir Leicester has been that good to her. She has had no reason to show any character to this point. Is she over reacting? Will we be seeing some character in her now?

[JudeS]

We all have holes in our Education. I don't know what Spark Notes are or what they do or where you find them.
Are they like the Cliff Notes that were used to cheat on College exams when you didn't want to read the material?

[Laura]

We all have holes in our Education. I don't know what Spark Notes are or what they do or where you find them.
Are they like the Cliff Notes that were used to cheat on College exams when you didn't want to read the material?

Yes, they are like Cliff Notes.  However, I find the on line version of Sparknotes to be much more thorough.  I only read the chapter summaries, not any analysis or other sections, until I finish the book.  The other parts contain spoilers.

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/bleakhouse/

[Laura]

Laura, it just occurred to me that it's probably a copyright violation for me to put a big chunk of the Spark notes on our site, and we have to be careful of that, so I guess better not.  (It wouldn't be a violation to share with a friend, but the site is open to any public.)

Oh, I hadn't thought of that, Pat.  Well, my e-mail address is available if you click on my name, so e-mail me if you would like a copy.  How's that?   

[Laura]

PatH - do you think she really did NOT recognize the resemblance between herself and Esther when they met for the first time that morning in the church in Lincolnshire?  She showed such interest in Ada and Rosa's beauty - perhaps wondering if her daughter, had she lived, would be as beautiful...but did she recognize the resemblance that struck Guppy as so remarkable.  Did anyone else see the resemblance?  John Jarndyce?  Sir Leicester?

I think Lady Dedlock did, on some level, recognize something in Esther's looks and/or manner.  I do think whatever she recognized made her uncomfortable, made her feel some emotion.  Lady Dedlock is very careful not to show emotion.  She is very poised.  I think she felt some emotion stir regarding Esther, and that is why Lady Dedlock turned away from Esther and would not interact with her.

[Babi]

 I really found Dickens' description of Lady Dedlock's discovery overdone, JUDE. How
would an actress say those lines without sounding like a thorough 'ham'? Still, we now know
why Lady Dedlock never once considered that Esther might be her daughter. She thought her
daughter was long dead.

2.

Lady Dedlock keeps her icy detachment no matter what.  Is this good?

I think the ability to maintain this 'icy detachment' is a protective instinct. It's not
uncommon, is it, among the power classes who don't want to show any weakness or vulnerability? For a woman in Lady Dedlock's social position, it's almost a 'must'.  "Good" is
open to debate.

[PatH]

Laura 

It's interesting to see how much Lady D. maintains her control in the face of this stunning news.  She cracks some, but quickly recovers, and stays cold and calm until Guppy leaves, only then breaking down.  Guppy had already sent her several letters.  I wonder what in the way of clues she had already.

[JoanP]

'If she could be translated to Heaven to-morrow, she might be expected to ascend without any rapture.'

I wonder if Lady D was always this detached?  Up to this point, we've heard of her boredom - out in Chesney Wold, even in the glittering life she led in London.  This boredom must have been apparent to everyone - especially to Sir Leicester.

There must have been some influential people who managed to take that baby, kidnap that baby, get her to Kenge and Carstone and then to Miss Barbary.  At this point we don't know who wanted to get rid of the baby.  What we do know is that Sir Leicester married her, that he does anything to keep her happy, even though he seems to keep her caged.  She never seems to make a move without him.  And surely, if someone like Mr. Guppy, can take one look at the portrait that hangs in Chesney Wold and see the likeness between the two, so MUST Sir Leicester see the resemblance when Esther appeared in the little church in Lincolnshire.  And John Jarndyce must have noticed, seeing the two of them together. 
I believe Sir Leicester and John Jarndyce must have known of the relationship.  How many people know that Lady D's baby lives?

I see Lady D's detachment as depression - and didn't find the scene at all overdone when in private, following Guppy's revelation, she collapsed and let down her reserve.  A good actress may have been able to deliver those words with feeling, Babi.  I'm looking forward to seeing the filmed version of that scene.

[JoanP]

We were posting together, Pat.  Guppy has stepped forward as a character of note, hasn't he? Though nervous, fumbling with his notes, he was still so sure of  the evidence he had to support his "case" - he was a match for Lady D's detachment.  It was fun seeing her maintain her fascade, though clearly she was affected by what he was telling her.   He seems to have beaten Mr. Tulkinghorn with the information regarding Nemo's identification.  Where did he get those letters?  Were the letters that Guppy will bring to Lady D the same as those that were taken from the porte-manteau in Nemo's room at Krook's?  Did he get them from Krook?   Tulkinghorn was in the room too, wasn't he? But Tulkinghorn is still trying to establish the relationship between Nemo and Hawdon.     The mystery continues...

[Jonathan]

Thanks for the link to the sparknotes, Laura. We need all the help we can get with this book. I took a quick glance at the outline of Chapter 26, and was reminded of Smallweed's visit to the Shooting Gallery to persuade George to provide a specimen of Captain Howdon's handwriting for Mr Tulkinghorn. George is suspicious. He knows that Captain Howdon was heavily indebted to Smallweed, believes Howdon may still be alive, and is certain that Smallweed would like to know his whereabouts. There's more, but it's the indebtedness that's interesting.

Richard's friends are worried about the debt he may be getting into, and sure enough, Smallweed admits to George that he has 'done a little business with a pupil of yours.' George replies, 'I'm sorry to hear it.' 'I'll advise him to do no more business' with you. 'There's no more business there...the young gentleman, to my knowledge, is brought to a dead halt.'

But Smallweed disagrees. He finds lots of reasons why Richard should be good for more credit:

Not quite a dead halt, I think. He has good friends. He is good for his pay. He is good for the selling price of his commission. He is good for his chance in a lawsuit, and he is good for his chance in a wife.

Mr Smallweed could probably find even Mr Skimpole worthy of a loan. But Skimpole is too smart to go that route.

[PatH]

Smallweed certainly knows how to squeeze the last drop of blood out of a turnip, doesn't he?  I think it's George who feels sure that Hawdon is dead, though.

And I have to modify my statement of a while back that Richard only wastes money he has.  That's no longer true.

[Laura]

As I get ready to read the next section, I am working hard to keep the men associated with the shooting gallery and the military straight.  It seems like Mr. Captain Hawden came out of the blue.  We find out he is the character named Nemo, so, in a way, he has been a part of the story all along.  Nevertheless, this is the part of the story that I am finding I really have to concentrate on.

[bookad]

what a book, what a book.....books like this were made to have imput from many to
give excitement to reading it I think.....I can imagine everyone reading their copy after the next excerpt was published and the mixed opinions being vented

thought I was so much behind everyone, but notice that today is the last day for chapter 29 which is right where I am....

everyone's thoughts are so interesting; and especially enjoyed  your post Jude about how Dickens may have written his books

This is what I saw:
Mr Dickens sits before a large table with his blue papers and his lists.  There are about fifty small and large boxes on the table.  All of them closed. Mr. D is thinking to himself 'Who should I let out this month? He thinks and opens up a box and the character pops out and stands next to him , like a puppet waiting to be animated by its creator.I will mix him with her. he thinks. Then he opens another box and thinks" they are not expecting that one in this scenario"he smiles to himself and opens another box.  Onward and onward. Connecting them all with beautiful Poetic Prose that makes reading the book worth while. 

just checking in...still here

Deb

[JoanP]

Deb, you did it!  All caught up...until tomorrow anyway.    Congratulations!  Oh, I agree with you. I really wanted to read Bleak House - but never could have stuck with it on my own.  I know I'd have given up by now.  Everyone has been such a tremendous help with the many aspects of Dickens' story.
.

Laura, the way I've been keeping each character straight in my mind is to consider how each new arrival on the scene relates to Esther - and how Esther relates to Bleak House and the Jarndyce case.   I find that the list of grouped characters  that Babi has put together has been a great help.  Several of us have printed out the list and keep it ready for quick reference. It's in the heading in case you want to try that.

It wasn't until this installment that the connection between Smallweed's grimy connexions and the Jarndyce case has come into focus.  Richard's gambling debts have his attention.  While John Jarndyce takes care of Richard's debts, Smallweed seems to have other plans how to use him in the future.  It's a good thing Richard is leaving town.  Not sure if Smallweed is aware of this.

The connection between Mr. George, his army buddies and the Dedlocks was unclear for a while - until the other Rouncewell brother- George's name is George Rouncewell, I assume - came on the scene.  We haven't really discussed that brother - but do  know the beautiful Rosa, his future daughter-in-law.  He wants to take her from Lady Dedlock, send her to school...get her some education for a few years , so that she will be a worthy wife for his son.

I can see why this would be upsetting for Lady Dedlock, but why does it anger Sir Leicester so much?   Lady Dedlock seems willing to let the decision be Rosa's...

[Babi]

 JOANP, it was my impression, from Esther's early description of her childhood, that the
woman we later learned was her aunt was obsessed with the 'disgrace' of her sister's
behavior. She was determined to hide it away, and sacrificed her own life to protecting
the family's reputation. It was easy enough for her to do, since she was there when the
baby was born. And lawyers were accustomed to help the upper classes conceal their
'mistakes'. The sister would have had to have some money of her own, but there is nothing
to indicate that she did not. Poor families are usually not that concerned with society's
opinion.  
  As near as I can make out, Sir Leicester is angry at the idea that anyone can be better
off than in the company of his wife, and under his protection. Lady Dedlock, who truly
cares about Rosa, wants her to be happy even if that means she leaves. She is not a heartless
woman, merely a deeply sad one.

I have to modify my statement of a while back that Richard only wastes money he has.  That's no longer true.

And a sign, PAT, of Richard's deterioration?

[PatH]

I am working hard to keep the men associated with the shooting gallery and the military straight.  It seems like Mr. Captain Hawden came out of the blue. 

Yes, Laura, it's hard to figure Hawdon out.  In Chapter XXIX we learn that he is Nemo and also that he's Esther's father.  But there's a lot we don't know.  He seems to have been involved in some kind of scam--Smallweed says "Didn't he take us all in?  Didn't he owe us immense sums all round?"  We have no idea what that's all about, how he came to link up with the others, why he felt he had to disappear.

Indeed it's hard to keep all the military men straight.  Thank goodness for Babi's list of characters.  I refer to it a lot.

[PatH]

In my books, Esther's aunt--cold, upright, unforgiving and unloving--gives moral rectitude a bad name.  Morality is incomplete without humanity.

[Laura]

JoanP and Pat, I am using Babi’s character list.  I even made a bookmark out of it.  The idea of piecing in the characters as they relate to Esther is a good one, Joan.  Now that we know who Captain Hawden is, it is easy to place him.  It was not so easy when he first appeared.  It looks like there is only one character, listed under assorted individuals, that we haven’t met yet.  Not having to place any new characters in the story will be a big help!

The scene with the Ironmaster (Mr. Rouncewell) and Sir Leicester was amusing to me.  Rosa is a servant to the Dedlocks, but did/does attend the village school that Sir Leicester sponsors.  The Dedlocks do not consider her to be of the same station in life as them.  However, Sir Leicester was upset that Mr. Rouncewell wanted to further educate her, so she would be a more even match with his son.  I found Sir Leicester’s reaction to be hypocritical.  If Sir Leicester had a son who wanted to marry a servant, I don’t think Sir Leicester would be too happy about that.  After all, they would not be of the same class/station in life.  Yet, Sir Leicester is upset that a servant of his, who attended his school, was not good enough for Mr. Rouncewell’s son.  While Mr. Rouncewell may not hold as high a societal position as Sir Leicester, he is certainly above servant class.  I have to side with Mr. Rouncewell on this one. 

Lady Dedlock was a bit manipulative with Rosa at the end of Chapter 28, cooing over her and leading her to believe that she was not ready to get married yet.  In this case, I think the manipulation benefitted both of them.  Rosa is a bit young yet to be married and Lady Dedlock wants to spend more time with Rosa, having her as a sort of proxy for her daughter she was not able to raise herself.

[BarbStAubrey]

Whee three pages back to read posts and catch up AND read the chapters in Bleak House - first I was tied up with some clients - then went to a Lent Retreat coming home in flash flooding raging rivers for roads - then my son came to visit for a day - and before you know it a week passed - I will catch up later today - looking forward to picking up the conversation -

[PatH]

Now all we have to do is remember the old characters when we meet them again.

What's really eating Sir Leicester is that the Ironmaster (who is the son of the housekeeper, for goodness sake!) does not consider himself to be of the servant class.  And indeed he is not.  Rouncewell is rich and successful.  He has been invited to go into Parliament.  He has bettered himself, and educated himself and now his son, and now going to the village school will not fit a fiancée of that son for her station in life.  This should not be.  They should be servants on the estate, like their parents before them.

The shaking up of the social system made possible by industrialization is very threatening to him, and outrages his sense of fitness.

[JudeS]

PatH
I agree with you and would like to add this;
Dickens has strongly pointed out that Dedlock supports many relatives..all of them just bumps on the skin of society. The author also points out, very strongly, how the Dedlocks have done nothing for society for hundreds of years.
Along comes Rouncewell, who grew up in this household and has done immensely important things in his life.  Dedlock has no children. Rouncewell has four.
How threatening this man is to Dedlock cannot be measured. The writer is clearly making his political statement in this scene.
The disagreement is supposedly about a marriage but really it encapsulates the whole social and political situation in England of that time.

[Jonathan]

Fascinating isn't it? What an artist. So many characters. So much happening. I can't make up my mind. Is he a better juggler, or a better puppetmaster, or the best of both. So many balls in the air. Such a busy, crowded stage.

What's really eating Sir Leicester? You ain't seen nothin yet. Wait until he finds out about Lady D's shady past. At least that's what I'm imagining.

Can we be sure that George is not hiding his friend Captain Hawdon? Detectives, as we have seen, peek into his place looking for missing persons.

[PatH]

what a book, what a book.....books like this were made to have imput from many to
give excitement to reading it I think.....I can imagine everyone reading their copy after the next excerpt was published and the mixed opinions being vented
Deb

Yes.  I can just imagine families reading the next installment aloud and having the kind of conversations we're having here.  (Ours are more clever and insightful, of course )

[bookad]

There is .... the Honourable Bob Stables........... He has been for some time particularly desirous to serve his country in a post of good emoluments, unaccompanied by any trouble or responsibility.   In a well regulated body politic, this natural desire on the part of a spirited young gentleman so highly connected, would be speedily recognized; but somehow William Buffy found when he came in, that these were not times in which he could manage that little matter, either; and this was the second indication Sir Leicester Dedlock had conveyed to him, that the country was going to pieces.

*the norton note to the above quote

in the early 1850's, reforms of the Civil Service were being recommended ...whereby candidates of government posts were to be appointed on the basis of their performance in competitive examinations rather than by their being  'highly connected.'

the class system comes up again and again....which the above quote suggests, letting one part of the population be supported by the hard work of another group...the rich feeding off the poor

following the published 'Bleak House' in the Norton edition there are over 200 pages of notes etc. some of them reflecting criticisms of the book published in newspapers of his time; as well as notes on societies conditions revolving around i.e. pollution, the fog, cemeteries & burial etc., of which a lot of appears throughout the pages of this book....interesting background reading

Deb

[PatH]

I'm glad you quoted that, Deb.  I thought it was pretty funny.   Goodness, the country is really going to the dogs if a highly connected young man has to show actual merit.

[JoanP]

When Volumnia hears that Mr. Rouncewell  "was invited to go into Parliament" - she screamed she'd never heard such a thing - and asked, "what is the man?"  When Sir Leicester answered that he is an "Ironmaster"...she utters another scream.  He's declined the proposal, Mr. Tulkinghorn has informed Sir Leicester.
I don't remember why he has declined, do you?

Deb, you mentioned the notes in the Norton Critical edition.  Here's  an interesting Chronology 1850-53 - found in the back of the Norton edition with something you may find interesting as I did. I'll type in only the relevant parts.  Remember that Bleak House was published in 1852-53:

...
March,1851 - Death of Dickens' father.  The Times intiating campagin for Chancery reforms

April, 1851 - Death of Dickens' infant daughter, Dora.  Publishes article on police in Household Words

May, 1851 - Speech to  Metropolitan Sanitary Association.  more on this speech tomorrow

February, 1852- Fall of Lord John Russell's governement, succeeded by the Conservatives under Lord Derby and Benjamin Disraeli. Dickens' fortieth birthday.

March, 1852 - First number of Bleak House published as monthly installment

April, 1852 - Bills in Parliament for reform of Chancery, sanitation and against bribery in elections.

May, 1852  Third number {Chapters VIII-X} published; fourth number written.

June, 1852 Dickens delines to run for Parliament.  Visits St. Albans for backgrounds for
Bleak House.

September, 1852 - Bleak House attacked by Lord Denman, former Lord Chancellor, for its allegedly irresponsible social criticism.

January, 1853 - Visits London slums to inspect sites for model housing.

[Babi]

Morality is incomplete without humanity.

  Hear, Hear!!, PatH.

 Dickens does release his clues piecemeal, LAURA. Great technique for a series, don't you
think? It keeps the readers agog for the next edition.  And of course, every mystery writer
does that, or we would know the villain every time.
 I think most of us, not being of the 'upper crust', would side with Mr. Rouncewell. Our
modern hackles rise at the idea that commoners should not seek to better themselves. In
the cant of the times, they should "remain in the position in which God placed them". Bah,
humbug!

 Well stated, JUDE. And 100% correct, IMO.
  Ah, yes, BOOKAD. And the 'old boy school' is still alive and well today on both sides of
the ocean. In fact, it's probably a core factor in any political institution.

 Very interesting timeline, JOANP. I was especially 'illuminated' by the info. about the
Times campaign for Chancery reforms.  That was bound to have influenced Dickens choice of a
theme.

 And now,  CADDY'S GETTING MARRIED!  Ah, Dickens does know his readers.  Don't you
know every female reading this series is delighted by the thought of a marriage between two
sweet characters?   And how well they understand the immense amount of work involved!

[Laura]

I haven’t done all of the reading for this section yet, but have completed Chapter 30.

Dickens dangles the carrot of the possible reintroduction of Mr. Woodcourt into the story with the appearance of his mother, but then that possible romance with Esther seems to be squelched.  Next, Dickens placates his readers (or at least me) with Caddy’s marriage.

Mrs. Woodcourt did not warm my heart towards her with the way she treated Esther.  On the outside, she and Esther were both polite, but Mrs. Woodcourt’s mission was clearly to encourage Esther keep away from her son and pursue an older rich man.  Mrs. Woodcourt’s behavior irked me.  As the mother of two sons, I hope I don’t find myself in such a position as Mrs. Woodcourt someday!

Thank goodness Caddy had Esther to help her get ready for her wedding.  Esther said, “Our great point was to make the furnished lodging decent for the wedding-breakfast, and to imbue Mrs. Jellyby beforehand with some faint sense of the occasion.  The later was the more difficult thing of the two.”  Can you imagine a mother of the bride being as disengaged as Mrs. Jellyby?!?!  Good grief.  I had to laugh at all the things that came out of the closets in the Jellyby home!  Gross!  And all that was discussed between Caddy and Mrs. Jellyby as Caddy left her childhood home was how Mrs. Jellyby would get along without Caddy as scribe!  Sad.  However, I did get the feeling that they parted on good terms and that there was love underlying the talk of work.

[PatH]

JoanP, that chronology certainly shows how Dickens was involved in the concerns in the book.  We aren't told why Rouncewell declined the proposal to go into Parliament, but I had the feeling he was too busy with his own work to want to get sidetracked.

Dedlock seems to be in the Boodle Coodle Doodle party, not the Buffy Cuffy Duffy party.  I guess these parties are recognizable if you know the politics of the time.

[JudeS]

There is one more very important factor going on in England during this period:
The Crimean War (Oct. 1853-Feb.1856). This was a war fought against Turkey (The Ottoman Empire) by Britain, France and Russia.
I don't want to go into an analysis of this important event but some highlights we must remember were :
"The Charge of the Light Brigade"

Florence Nightingale and the revolution in Women's position that her work brought about.

[PatH]

I think Mrs. Jellyby's benign neglect of Caddy on her wedding is much preferable to Mr. Turveydrop.  When they announced their engagement, he was cool until he satisfied himself that he could continue to sponge off the couple as he had off his son, then graciously consented.  And he's already started in--fussing at his son for being away from the school for a whole week.

[pedln]

Laura, I agree with you  that Caddy and her mother parted on good terms.  And Esther’s narrative about all the wedding plans left a warm fuzzy type of feeling.  How wise, to limit the actual spending to the 10 pound note “found on the wharf by Mr. Jellybe.”  Of course, Mr Jarndyce would have been happy to pay for the whole wardrobe, but it was more important that it be Mr. Jellybe’s gift.  I had to laugh at Esther’s description of the blind leading the blind, which so often happens when we least expect it.

Poor Peepy.  Kids sense things, and Peepy knew that whatever was happening with  his sister-mother-payer-of-attention did not bode well for Peepy.  At least not right away, although living with Prince and Caddy would no doubt do wonders for him.  But no wonder he had a meltdown.

As for the trio that will be living at the dance studio.  The no. one beneficiary will no doubt be the gentleman with the greatest deportment.

[Jonathan]

Is Esther feeling the East wind in Chapter 30? Feeling worried and confused? Her encounter with Mrs Woodcourt left her with unaccountable 'perplexities and contradictions.' What a strange tete-a-tete. It left me wondering if Allan Woodcourt left, trying to get away from his mother. I wonder did Mrs W come to Bleak House looking for a husband herself. Esther admits she doesn't know what to make of her.

And I don't know what to make of Esther. In a very confusing chapter only one thing stands out clearly for me. Esther obviously has a lot of admiration for Mrs Jellybe. Just look how closely she observes her. Crowded into a few pages are numerous flattering impressions.

Mrs Jellybe's 'sweetness of temper,' her 'placid smile,' her 'look of serenity,' of 'a superior spirit,' her 'abstract manner,' her 'serenity' again, 'looking over her papers and drinking her coffee,' her 'calm smile and her bright eyes looking unconcerned amidst confusion,' 'presiding at the head of the table,' and farewelling with Caddy in the sweetest way: 'you romantic child, now, good-bye Caddy, and be very happy.'

I could swear Esther sees a role model in her. Despite her failure as a wife and mother. Don't ask her about the blessings of matrimony. She obviously found it a trap. And escaped it. At a cost.

[Jonathan]

I wonder what Dickens would have made of Florence Nightingale. The Crimean War came too late for this novel. Are these things written about in later books? Sufficient for the day are the evils thereof. The justice system. Class distinctions. Povery and slums. Marriage problems. Illegitimacy. It wasn't difficult to find a title for the book.

[Babi]

  I couldn't help thinking, LAURA, that when Mrs. Woodcourt suggested Esther should
marry a rich, older man whe was thinking of John Jarndyce. I can see where that
would appear to her to be a natural outcome. And surprisingly enough, Esther does
not appear at all shocked by the idea of marrying a much older man. I believe it
was much more common and acceptable in those days. Now, we tend to assume it's a
case of golddigger and meal ticket.

 It would be amusing, tho', PAT, to know which of the parties was 'Boodle, Coodle,
et al, and which was 'Buffy, Cuffy, Duffy'.  Would I be reading too much into the
names to suspect the 'Boodle' group of being focused on profit, and the 'Buffy'
group of being the aristocratic airheads?

 Yes, indeed, PEDLN. Mr. Turveydrop always makes sure his own convenience and
pleasures are #1 in the household.  Everyone else is welcome to the leftovers.
Lord, what a self-centered egoist this man is.

 Surely you jest, JONATHAN. Or is that sarcasm? All those descriptions of Mrs.
Jellyby only emphasized for me her detachment from any concerns other than her own.
It's easy to say to Caddy, "..be very happy", so long as she is not troubled by
any necessity to do more than that. I'm persuaded Esther was exasperated by the
lady rather than admiring.

[Laura]

I think Mrs. Jellyby's benign neglect of Caddy on her wedding is much preferable to Mr. Turveydrop. 

When I was thinking of which person’s actions were better or worse, it was only then that I realized that Mrs. Jellyby and Mr. Turveydrop are opposites.  Mr. Turveydrop is all about himself and Mrs. Jellyby is all about everyone else.

[Laura]

Is Esther feeling the East wind in Chapter 30? Feeling worried and confused? Her encounter with Mrs Woodcourt left her with unaccountable 'perplexities and contradictions.' What a strange tete-a-tete. It left me wondering if Allan Woodcourt left, trying to get away from his mother.

Maybe Allan was trying to get away from his meddling mother!

[JoanP]

Following the previous month's installment, Dickens had left his readers with the image of a devastated Lady Dedlock, overcome with the realization that her lost love has died - the father of her child - and that child had not died at birth as she had believed all this time, but that she is alive. And her daughter is someone she knows!   Can you imagine those readers waiting a month to learn what will happen next?  Would they have been disappointed with this installment?

With all of Mrs. Woodcourt's talk of a proper wife for her Allan - one of royal blood, I'm puzzled that she even considers Esther to be that wife - simply because she is so "busy and neat."  What brings her so often to Bleak House?  Has John Jarndyce invited her?  Does Jarndyce believe that Allan would make a good husband for Esther?  You have to wonder if John Jarndyce knows more about Esther's background.

Whatever Esther thought of Allan Woodcourt, clearly she is uncomfortable with Mrs. Woodcourt's conversation... it reminds me of the way Mrs. Jellyby kept inviting Mr. Quale to their home, hoping for a match with Caddie.  Maybe that's why she was so unenthusiastic about Caddie choosing the dance instructor.   Wasn't it interesting that Mr. Quale was invited to Caddie's wedding?

Mr. Turveydrop is all about himself and Mrs. Jellyby is all about everyone else.

  Laura - your observation made wonder which one Dickens himself is criticizing more...

Babi - sometimes I think too about a match between Esther and the handsome and never married Jarndyce...remembering that Dickens himself had a relationship at the time with a very young actress - I think her name was Ellen Ternan. She was the reason Dickens' wife had left their home...

[PatH]

With all of Mrs. Woodcourt's talk of a proper wife for her Allan - one of royal blood, I'm puzzled that she even considers Esther to be that wife - simply because she is so "busy and neat."  What brings her so often to Bleak House?  Has John Jarndyce invited her?  Does Jarndyce believe that Allan would make a good husband for Esther?  You have to wonder if John Jarndyce knows more about Esther's background.

I think Mrs. Woodcourt saw clearly that her son was in love with Esther, and disapproved--not of sufficiently grand origin for someone with the blood of Morgan ap Kerrig coursing through his veins.  Hence her talk designed to discourage Esther.  She stayed at Bleak House for 3 weeks at Jarndyce's invitation, but she might have fished for it.