Talking Heads ~ Cursive Writing

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Talking Heads

"It occurred to me that nothing is more interesting than opinion when opinion is interesting..."
Herbert Bayard Swope, creator of the Op-Ed page.

A two week  forum for opinions on anything in print: magazines, newspaper articles, online: bring your ideas and let's discuss.

First up: Is Cursive Writing Dead?

 Recently in the Christian  Science Monitor, The Boston Globe, the Washington Post and Newsweek a debate has arisen concerning the teaching of Cursive Writing.

Here is the original article in the Christian  Science Monitor:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1114/p13s01-legn.html?s=hns

 Do we need to teach or use cursive writing any more? Is penmanship dead? What's the Palmer Method?


What's YOUR opinion?  Read the short article and then weigh in!

How's YOUR handwriting?

Discussion Leader: Ginny

[ginny]

Welcome to our newest discussion, which will address topics in print, in the news, magazines, online, anywhere we can put a link to it, and will be sort of an informal round table discussion of that issue.
 
When we have finished this one, we'll take suggestions for the next one, perhaps you've read an article you'd like to submit for our interest to hear what we have to say about it? When we get through with this one, bring it here and we'll choose which we'd like to talk about next. We might even try a poll, this is a new site and we can do what we want!
 
First up: cursive handwriting. Please read the short article linked at the top of the page. What are your thoughts on this?
 
Hows YOUR handwriting? When's the last time you got a letter written in hand or wrote one? Is the computer destroying our ability to write (and do math?) Did you know some schools have stopped teaching the multiplication tables reasoning calculators can do the job?
 
ARE machines taking over our lives?
 
Is this good or bad?
 
What do you think? We'd love to know.

[ginny]

THAT is a good article. What do they mean  "with only 15 percent of adults using cursive after high school. "

What are the rest of adults doing?

[jane]

I think a lot of people use a variation on block print.  In some schools I understand that cursive as we knew it in school is no longer taught at all.  Again, a variation/modification of block print is used.  It's what the kids see in books and so why not write that way as well?

Actually makes sense to me rather than slave over how to make an F in cursive or some of  those other letters that were a trial.

jane

[ginny]

Really!!  And here they castigated my sons for using block print! (They both turned out to be engineers who not only use block print but I've heard block print on en engineering blueprint (when they used to make them by hand) was  one of the hardest things to do well, good block print).

How about the Q? I have never understood why a  cursive Q should look like a 2.

They do say that (not in this article but it's all over the news media) you tend to use whatever cursive you were taught, as a child, that you don't waver from it.  Apparently you just drop it. Is block printing fast?

[jane]

I sure don't use the cursive I slaved over in 3rd grade. It was tedious and looked awful, I thought.  The only people I've ever seen write like that are teachers of grades 3, 4,5,& 6.

I find that I and those I know have their own form of "cursive/block print."

[pedln]

I will read the article, but must say that when I first heard about not teaching cursive my heart just bled for all the little third graders, and those who will follow them.

That is a major RITE of PASSAGE for eight-year-olds. It's a BIG DEAL!!  My grandchilden on both coasts (well, the girls, anyway) were so proud to announce, "I can write cursive."  They had looked forward to it all through second grade.

Of course, that doesn't mean they stuck with it.  Just looking at the thank you's on the bulletin board -- both 14 yr old Lizzie and 12 yr old Brian have reverted to printing, one fancy, one hardly fancy, but both more legible than anything their grandmother writes.  I avoid handwriting as much as possible, but when forced to address and envelope by hand, I use block -- all capital letters.  I detest writing checks.

[pedln]

I need a couple of terms defined.  When  you say block print do you mean all upper case or lower case or what?  And what is meant by the italic cursive, mentioned by Dr. Gladstone in the article.

I agree with the Vanderbilt professor who says children organize their thoughts and write better using a keyboard.  And when you have a finite amount of teaching time available I would prefer to see it spent teaching thinking skills and organizing and expressing thoughts.

Granted, everyone needs to be able to exhibit some kind of legible handwriting.  I agree with Dr. Gladstone, pick one and teach it -- most likely printing, and offer minimal exposure to cursive.  Surely there will be something else that's special about third grade.

[Pat]

I have old report cards that showed all A's and a few B's  ---  and D's in writing.

But when I went to high school, only commercial students took typing.
College prep students were too busy taking 4 years of Latin, and years of
English and American Literature, beside Biology, Zoology, Botany and Chemistry.

So I can't type and I can't write.
When I worked with the children in the grade school on the old  Mac LCs, we played
Mario Teaches Typing.  By 5th grade we moved to Mavis Beacon.  At the end of 6th
grade they were fairly proficient in typing.

In Jr.High, most of them aced the typing/keyboard course.
Now those kids are in college taking notes on a laptop.

There are jobs out there where good typing skills are a must.

[ALF43]

Instead of focusing on what type of handwriting is best, Graham suggests that schools concentrate on improving students' handwriting, period, whatever it is.

I agree with that premise, what difference if a kid writes in block letters, black letters or calligraphy?  As long as it is legible it should not matter. 

I believe more time should be spent on teaching proper grammar than on deriding a child because their "a's" are not closed enough.

[mabel1015j]

Pedin - here is a site that shows samples of children's italic cursive writing
http://www.cep.pdx.edu/samples/childsample.PDF

I needed to know what the heck they were talking about too, so i googled it and this came up .................................Jean

[maryz]

checking in

[jfreeman]

I wish I could print.  My printing is much worse than my cursive. My printing mixes lower case and upper case styles in the same word.  They are the same size but different styles.  My wife's cursive is beautiful.  All the letters are perfectly formed, the spacing even, the heights the same, and she doesn't need lines.

[Sandy]

  Hi, I am new to this site, but couldn't help laughing at post #5. As a teacher of fifth grade for years, the Palmer and then Peterson methods of handwriting drove me crazy. Among other things one fourth grade teacher taught her entire class year after year the wrong way to put the top on capital t's and I struggled to correct them. Now I wonder why it was so important, but it was then. I think many adults use printing but with flourishes like connecting ths with a stroke or something individual.

 I read once that psychologists considered adults who still wrote the same as in fifth grade were too inhibited and needed to develop a more individual style. My handwriting has deteriorated yet I take it in stride. Much ado about not much as long as writing was legible, I think.

Sandy

[Steph]

I use cursive for my signature.. but for anything else a mix of print and cursive. I know how our eldest grieved in elementary school, because his one bad mark was always handwriting. By the 7th grade he was printing ( aha, Ginny another engineer) and his printing is wonderful. At that time in college they handprinted, so they learned to be very very good and fast at it. 
Truth about correspondence. I simply never handwrite except for short thank you notes, etc. The rest are always computer generated. I love the computer and according to both our sons, they can actually read what Mom wrote. I used to handwrite both of them when the younger was in the army and the older in college. Then we got a printer for our computer and I never looked back. I will say that our granddaughter learned cursive in school. She is now in the 7th grade.. Handwriting is not great. Our grandson who is in the 1st grade prints and the printing is very precise. Will be interested in finding out what his cursive will look like.

[Babi]

 I have alread commented more than once on how my handwriting --never terrific--- deteriorated to terrible once I began using a typewriter.  Computer written letters do lack a personal touch, regrettably, but at least they are legible.  But what do you do when your printer refuses to work?!  We have had three printers, and they all had stopped printing after a short life span. We gave up on the printers and lean heavily on e-mail, which really puts a crimp in the once high art of letter-writing.

[pedln]

Steph, your son's bad marks in penmanship brought back memories.

My mother deplored my handwriting.  The elementary report card grades were Superior, Satifactory, and Unsatifactory.  My penmanship grade managed to get a Satisfactory, barely. When I was in 5th or 6th grade, my mother said that if I ever got a Superior in penmanship she would stand on her head.  Well, she was a teacher, and a friend of my teacher.  Naturally I told my teacher what she said.  So, guess who got a Superior and guess who had to stand on her head at the School's-Over-Teacher-Gettogether.

Jean, interesting examples of cursive.  I guess the italic means the use print for upper case letters.

[sandyrose]

Interesting topic.  I remember my boys in high school in the late 1970's early 80's,-- printing.  It upset me then, but they could print faster and neater than they could write (as we called cursive).  My girls still use cursive or their style of it, but it is so large it looks like grade school.

I tried to talk my kids into taking typing classes in summer school, but no luck.  I bet now they wished they would have as it is a much needed skill today. 

I assist in computer classes and would be so helpful if we could offer a keyboard class to these senior students as someone mentioned above..in my day also only business students took typing.

Now I also use a combination of both printing and writing.

Just wondering, how do teacher's decide what to teach? 

[jane]

Just wondering, how do teacher's decide what to teach?

In the schools I've worked in or know about, there is a full curriculum all laid out of what is to be covered and in what order. There are also often Goals and Objectives that are defined as well as the rubrics for assessment.

In my district there were curriculum writing sessions in the summer when various grade levels met to decide the order of items to be taught, for how long, how that would be assessed for progress, etc.  In addition there were vertical articulation meetings so that it was understood what would be taught in grade 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, etc.  At the high school level the English Dept would meet and decide what plays/novels/composition components/concepts would be taught at which level. 

Teachers in my district also spent sessions deciding on new textbooks when there was money available and comparing various ones to find the best for the students we had.

jane

[nlhome]

Looking at the examples of italic cursive, I find that is what I have moved to when I write. I did have very thorough penmanship classes, as did my children. They all print, now. One son had could not master cursive, printed illegibly, and learned the keyboard while in elementary school. I actually found someone to tutor him in cursive, because his teachers always graded him down, partly because of his terrible handwriting and partly because they could not decipher what he had written. Finally, when he was in high school, we asked that the teachers allow him to submit his homework using the word processor whenever possible. He was an honor student.

I have always had cramps in my hands from writing - perhaps going back to learning cursive, when I tensed up so much because I found it stressful. I don't know. I still write cards and short notes, but long letters are typed on the computer and printed off. We depend on our printers and have been fortunate to have had only two in the last 11 years, both HP.

[straudetwo]

A fascinating subject!
We never learned cursive script - or heard the term.  We learned Sűtterlin script, named for the man who created it as a simplification/revision of Old German.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/sutterlin

Just took a quick look back and, lo and behold, the link works. 
You can see what the letters looked like.  The books were printed in the same Gothic style.  I did not like the long straight lines of the 's' and the 't' and the flourishes of the capital letters.

When Latin and English were added to the curriculum,  we switched (we were switched!) to what was called "the Latin alphabet" (das lateinische Alphabet).  I found it a great deal easier, the product looked cleaner and more fluid.

Later, when I took Russian,  I had to master the cyrillic alphabet, which has a few 'extra' letters  - e.g.    for the sound of  'shch'.  I admit it was quite a challenge and decidedly an experience.  The class, small to begin with,  dwindled to half a dozen.  Five completed the course.  The professor, who had written the textbook we were using, was an inspiration.

We too were graded on penmanship in high school, but also in orthography,  with an emphasis on correct spelling - not only in German  but in French and in English - as well as grammar.  In that regard.  nothing is more valuable of course  than Latin, the mother of all languages.

[sandyrose]

Thank you Jane. 

[EvelynMC]

I'm left handed and cursive takes on another "curve" when one is left-handed.  I am "mirror" left handed instead of "backwards lefthanded" if you understand what I mean. 

I could never conquer cursive and many of my right handed friends couldn't either.  Many of the boys simply printed.

I was a business student in high school and took 2 years of steno (Pitman). With all that writing, my handwriting improved dramatically.  Today, I find it easier to type letters.  At Christmas time I always enclose personal, handwritten notes in the Christmas cards I send, but that's about the extent of my writing.

I have an 87 year old Aunt who sends notes to me at Christmas and her handwriting is absolutely beautiful, with perfectly formed letters.

I guess cursive is a lost art.

[Sandy]

  Our new president is left handed. Ever notice how he cups his hand when he writes, getting in his own way. Somewhere a teacher should have told him how to turn his paper in the opposite direction to that of the right handers; it would have made it so much easier.

  Left- handed Sandra

[pedln]

Oh Sandy and Evelyn, here we are -- three leftys in a row.  I didn't know that about the President, guess I haven't been watching when he signed.  He and I write the same way.  I call it upside down.  I remember the days of ball point pens -- I'd end up with a blue hand.

One of my four children is also left-handed.  Her penmanship is pretty bad, too.

I took a summer typing course around junior high time, and then another later on, maybe in adulthood.  Can't remember.

[Steph]

My mother convinced me to take a summer typing course and I have always been glad. I typed college papers.. Hooray and then learned keyboarding later for computers. I think it is a useful skill for everyone.

[mabel1015j]

All college-prep students in my high-school had to take a typing course, thank goodnes! I have fibromyalgia and have had problems writing since the 1970's. I type w/ ease and very comfortably. ..........my son had very poor small motor skills and still has terrible writing. Everyone has mentioned sons' writing, do any of you who were elementary school teachers see that boys have more trouble than girls w/ cursive? Altho my husband has beautiful hand-writing, the nicest in our family.

I now write what i would call italic cursive - altho i never heard the term until you started this discussion - I don't know why i do that, i think it was quicker and easier than writing strictly Palmer method, since it's not a constant writing, but a stop and start, which gives my hand a chance to relax. I'd hate to see the teaching of cursive completely disappear, we can't always have a keyboard in front of us. (sending greeting cards has not completely disappeared, has it?) Also, i have a bias - seeing only printing makes me think that it's a "childish" behavior - my prejudice, of course, and one i know is not rational. ..............jean

[ginny]

Isn't this interesting! LOOK at how many of us struggled with penmanship, who knew? WHY were they so hysterical about it then?

The issue tho is serious. It's like the stopping of  teaching the multiplication tables (did you realize many schools have stopped doing that?) They reason you can use a calculator. I don't always have a calculator  (do you?) and if you've ever driven thru McDonald's when the computer is not working you'll find out nobody can subtract either without one.

Now we will not write Cursive and if it's not taught who can read it anyway?

Can anybody  think of ONE good reason children should be taught Cursive? I liked Pedln's grandchildren being proud of themselves way back early on in the discussion,  for learning how.

I wonder how important it IS to be able to write it well tho.

I have a serious what they used to call "backhand" script which was absolutely anathema to my teachers, they had a FIT. The doggone thing should slant,  not stand up straight.

In the Fourth Grade a girl called Geraldine Faustino (yes I still remember you Geraldine, are you out there? came to our school from Italy. She was from Florence and said our penmanship here was nothing, she had had to labor to learn what I have to assume was Florentine script.

It was beautiful. I sat half the day yesterday in the auto shop reading this discussion and searching for it. I finally found it, a lot of those calling selves Florentine are not.

You can tell by the capital  F and the T,  and the capital  G give it away. I thought it was the prettiest thing I ever saw as a child  and copied it. Upright, of course. Here it is today with my twist on it:



I just slapped that down with no particular care to show the F and T. Today I can't find the site with the "right" script, all I can find are sites trying to sell a hybrid.

Unfortunately it takes time to write, and care to write, so for notes at lectures,  a hideous mishmash ensued which no human can read, waste of time. I could not print fast enough to take notes, waste of time.

So I can occasionally write nicely, but I type so much it seems odd and I have to admit my hand gets very tired even with a letter, and it's very hard to even keep things on a straight line.

How will the students do the SAT writing sample if they can't write in hand?

Do they type on computers? Typewriting skills were not offered to us in High School unless you did the Business curriculum, that was a huge error. Taught self to type in old age by using Mavis Beacon, I'm not accurate but it  beats one finger.

The  Three R's: Reading Writing and Arithmetic (was that the third R?) are definitely taking a hit in 2009, are we better off or not?

The SAT's as you know have been upgraded as to scores, but have you ever seen a real McGuffey's reader? (I hope I spelled that correctly). I have and it nearly blew me out of the water.

I guess the article begs the question: ARE we better off now?  SHOULD we try to keep some standards alive? Kids don't know their Times Tables, can't write cursive and can they read at the same level they once did? That we once did? Is that progress, do you think?

Am I the only one totally offended by the premise of the TV program  Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?

What, in fact, are we doing to ourselves AND our children? Gee I got wound up here, all over penmanship! hahahahaaaaaaa  Well what ARE we doing?

[Sandy]

  Maybe there is still some use to learn to write cursive -- in case one becomes a famous person one might use it in signing autographs. But if no one wrote it, probably no one could still read it so that reason doesn't work.

  How about important documents like the declaration of independence or Gettysburg address? How would you feel about them printed by a computer? And how could one tell if the copy were the original or not.

 Lol. I give up. Somebody else better work on this solution.

   Sandy

[ginny]

Well that's the truth, about the Declaration of Independence! I wonder what handwriting experts would do with a lot of printing? Can they analyze printing?

Sandy you are a hoot: 

Maybe there is still some use to learn to write cursive -- in case one becomes a famous person one might use it in signing autographs

I love that! That's good enough for me, especially in this age of the Reality Show and You Tube and instant celebrity! I'm ready Mr. Demille!   Am still waiting for my moment in the sun, maybe they could print prettily? Flourishes? hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I once wrote very carefully  a note to a person who was in a position of what I thought was importance, sort of an outspoken person, actually,  and she remarked, your handwriting is  like a child's: all rounded. hahahaaa So I guess spiky shows maturity? hahaaa

Mabel remarks on the sending of greeting cards, now that's a good one, have they disappeared entirely? Maybe we should open up an op ed on "things that aren't there any more."

There is a DVD called that which actually is about half of my life, things that aren't there any more. The issue is do we miss them? Did we use them and were they of interest to us?

The holiday greeting card. I love to get them, have not sent one for years, have you?

I even like the printed holiday  letters. I may be in a minority there, but I do like reading what's gone on and half the script that comes nowadays I can't read.

Reminds me of an  aunt I once had whose penmanship nobody could read, her letters were always an event as people struggled to translate and spent MUCH more time on her letters than they would have typed.



I got up thinking that if they made cursive optional (but in these days that's not likely to happen) it may be that it would create its own vogue and become desirable simply because few could do it and those who could would seem somehow "in." Note the Reality Show The Real Housewives of New York City whose Countess is penning a book on Class. Class With the Countess. (Double entendre: it's about manners in our present time).

Evelyn, what does Mirror Left handed mean?

Sandy I had not noticed that the President was left handed but now that you mention it that's all I see in photographs!


Traude, what an interesting script: Sűtterlin script, very pretty.

Nlhome, I've wondered  why cursive had to be so exact, and such stress (as it looks like it was for most of us here). I think a little individuality is a good thing, myself, but I also cramp up.

And I was interested in Jim's block print, a mix of capital and small letters, we are a fascinating lot. I guess it depends on whether or not you can read it, as Andrea said, quoting the article, just work on improving how well each student writes!

But can you print fast? I can't! Actually I can't print slowly! 

Can any of you do shorthand? I understand that's also gone the way of the dodo, true?


Tell you what let's experiment! Set a timer? Start writing out something, doesn't matter what. Set a 1 minute timer and print as fast as you can. Set 1 minute again and write th same thing in cursive as fast as you can, no cheating!

Which one got the most words in? Which one is the most legible? I'd do well to get 2 printed words in, I'm going to try..




[/color]

[Steph]

Actually I send mostly ecards.. They are so much more elaborate and fun.. I had a fit about the multipication ables. Anyone who owns or ever owned a store knows that computers go down,, cash registers have fits.. And none of your help ever can figure out change.. Drove me nuts when I was still in business. I spend hours with my help explaining counting up if necessary. Sigh.
Our younger son has horrid arithmetic problems. He simply does not cope with numbers. I know that we blamed part of his problems in the fact that he had a teacher that did not believe in the tables and insisted this was an instinctive act.. What bosh.. I had him tutored and worked with him and his brother worked with him, but in the end, we discovered that if it was what he called a real number ( money, etc) he could do it, he just could not deal with imaginary.. Hows that for silly.. But he always has a small calculator with him and is very very cautious about money..

[Sandy]

Tell you what let's experiment! Set a timer? Start writing out something, doesn't matter what. Set a 1 minute timer and print as fast as you can. Set 1 minute again and write th same thing in cursive as fast as you can, no cheating!

Which one got the most words in? Which one is the most legible? I'd do well to get 2 printed words in, I'm going to try.. [/color]
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 Can't resist a challenge. I wrote 31 words a minute in cursive; 29 in printing. The printing was more legible by far. Cursive came close to being a scribble.
Sandy

 


[/color][/color]

[EvelynMC]

Ginny: You asked what "mirror left-handed" is....I don't write upside down like the president does.  I hold my pen just as a right-handed person, but as Sandy said, tilt the paper in the opposite direction of a right-handed person. --- It works.  My handwriting is not slanted backwards, or cramped, but upright.

About multiplication tables--- I volunteered in an afterschool program and couldn't believe it when I learned they were not teaching multiplication tables anymore.  The retired teacher who was in charge of the program insisted we teach the students multiplication tables and wouldn't let them use their computers.  So, after a lot of groaning and moaning, they learned to multiply.  They also were absolutely mystified that all us old fogey adults could multiply in our heads.   

[ginny]

Oh me too, I love things like this and I was almost shocked but should not have been at the result. Good thing I have a good timer on the stove.

(Had to laugh at the appearance I must have presented should anybody have been looking, hunched anxiously over the paper like a 4th grader, did bring back memories). Really hunched.

Strange and stranger. I thought to write a song since I didn't want to pause in the writing.

I wrote out Believe Me if All Those Endearing Young Charms, as fast as I could.  In script I wrote 43 words, and can't read half of them, that's not a joke. I can't read them, so if I came back to that later I would not know unless I recognized the song, what the word was.

The printing was LABORIOUS! So hard, so difficult. I only got 33 words and I thought that minute would never end. hahahaaa It really WAS difficult to keep on, what a fascinating thing.

Sandy you had such close numbers! Wow, your results prompted me to see if there would be any difference in mine because I never print. There's not much in yours, that's super!  The odd thing IS I can read the printed words. They are really sloppy but clear. And the small f is the sort of....old timey one, like Shakespeare, you'd think you'd not use that sort of thing when in a hurry. I guess I don't know any other way to make it.

 The second odd thing IS that I kept trying to make shortcuts, + for "and" and then had to go back and fix it. The printing for me is MUCH slower, I think that would add up in an hour but who can write for an HOUR?

Stephanie, e cards are very nice, I think, especially that Jacquie Lawson site, very pretty.

I can identify with Math problems as remain to this day a math illiterate (is that an oxymoron?) Perhaps a math moron then.

They SAID our problem was we did not have the new math. Remember how you struggled with your children "helping" with the "new math?"  Both my sons could do algebra and calculus,  I imagine thanks TO the new math, while their mother, entering a store with XX and having bought two pencils on 25 percent off, struggled to figure out actually how much money was needed.

The math  problems I liked always had picturesque items: there is a ladder leaning against the wall. The ladder is X feet from the wall. The sun casts a shadow of 40 degrees. How tall is the ladder?  or some bosh like that. How many times in your adult lives have you USED that type of thing?

There are two trains approaching each other. One is going the speed of light, the other is moving thru many short stations. There is a cookie on the tracks. How long will it take train Y if the engineer takes a 5 minute pit stop, to crush the cookie?

Love those things. Am the best guesser in the world. Never got one right.  So many delightful details, who needs numbers?

I remember once for some unknown reason i took Accounting in college. Do not ask why a Latin major took Accounting. Those were the days of student humiliation. The professor liked to liken your test results to the old game of Hot and  Cold, the hotter the nearer the desired score. I have never understood to this day why the Balance Sheet MUST be equal. Surely somewhere in this world there is a person whose assets outnumber his liabilities.  THE BALANCE SHEET is the cause of our banking dliemma today? Maybe? Never made sense to me.

Anyway from that you can well imagine the results. When he handed me my paper he memorably said "Merry Christmas."

hmpf.

But NOW my students at Osher tell me that the NEW MATH itself is defunct, is this true? What has replaced it?

A lovely round table evolving into education in general, love it.

[Sandy]

   from Ginny --Oh me too, I love things like this and I was almost shocked but should not have been at the result. Good thing I have a good timer on the stove.

The printing was LABORIOUS! So hard, so difficult. I only got 33 words and I thought that minute would never end. hahahaaa It really WAS difficult to keep on, what a fascinating thing.
              ******
Ginny, I had to laugh - I found printing so easy but got only 29; you struggled and got 33. So there we are. I do print a lot now  keeping records of books read, to be read, and other things from being in three book discussion groups on another site. I was getting all mixed up so have a small notebook for each and a separate TBR (to be read list for those that appeal that others mention).

As long as this site stays with education I shall keep chiming in. Fifteen plus years of teaching gives me lots to say. The new math is gone as far as I know. The top math students grasped the concepts and flew with them. The average and below struggled. I think it set them back in math in general. Parents found it impossible to help with homework. It also required teaching a whole new vocabulary as well as math. Dumb idea somebody had I think. We saw fads in teaching come and go.

Then after no longer teaching because of newly adopted son aged 10 I landed on jr./sr. high regional school board as curriculum chair for 6 and 1/2 yr,  so was up to my ears in math and reading there. Fortunately the jr. and sr. high school did not get involved in handwriting.

It is funny. My two sons are 22 years apart in age. One had me on the faculty from his k-6 grades; the other had me in his school on the schoolboard from grades 7-12.

 Sandra

[bellemere]

If your teachers were nuns, YOU LEARNED CURSIVE. And years ago you learned it with a metal tipped wooden pen dipped into an inkwell.   No ifs ands or but. And no blots. \
 It is a beautiful art form and will soon become like calligraphy which some people take up as a hobby. 
I have some cursive writing from my grandfather who never went beyond eighth grade.  Bold heavy down stokes, delicate upward stokes, everything slanted at the same angle.  Gorgeous.
I dont see the Chinese giving up their character writing, or the Arabs.  In fact, I think that since Islam does not permit depiction of living beings, the decoration of their walls etc. is beautifully stylized written sayings from the Koran.

[PatH]

Bellemere: "And years ago you learned it with a metal tipped wooden pen dipped into an inkwell."  Yes, me, too, and you had to compromise between taking up so much ink that you got a blob on a and e, etc and taking up so little that you had to keep re-dipping.  And for southpaws like me, it was a special misery to avoid smudging what you had just written.

You bet I noticed right off that our new president is left handed.

[Steph]

Oh me,, I cannot believe it, but like Ginny, I wrote a lot faster, but cannot read a word. Printed,, slow slow slow, but readable. Says something. I do have a cousin who writes beautifully.. Always has, I used to be so envious. Her handwriting is perfectly even, loops filled.. she got a+ in writing.. Our whole family is writing deficient.. Husband, both sons and me.. But then my Dad who was a leftie like me wrote as cramped as I do. I think it was the old ball point pens which smeared the side of my hand as I drug it across the paper. Lovely computers,, no more ink stains..

[Babi]

SANDY, I didn't take the 'test', but my experience has been much the same. My cursive is faster, but illegible. I first started printing when I broke my right
elbow many years ago and was in a cast for ages.  My colleagues were unkind enough,...or honest enough...to tell me my left-handed printing was much more readable.

Quote from Ginny:  But NOW my students at Osher tell me that the NEW MATH itself is defunct.   
  Oh, I do hope not. The New Math was introduced when my son was in school,
and parents were invited to come see what it was all about.  It was such good preparation for higher math, that I found myself wishing they had taught it that way when I was in school.

[Frybabe]

I think college ruined my cursive handwriting. My writing was okay and readable before that. Trying to keep up with the college professors made me scribble so much that I couldn't read what I wrote later. Unfortunately, I still have trouble slowing down. If I get "frantic" with my writing I cannot read it.