Presidents Club, The by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy~September Book Club Online

[Ella Gibbons]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

SEPTEMBER BOOK CLUB ONLINE
PLEASE POST BELOW IF YOU PLAN TO JOIN US.  

As we head into another overheated and polarizing presidential campaign, at least it's a comfort knowing that former presidents have learned to mostly put aside partisan politics and work together.  Thanks to the brilliant investigative work of Time magazine's Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy, The Presidents Club uncovers a powerful secret fraternity, in which ex-leaders stay in the game by counseling inexperienced successors. - USA Today

Realizing that membership in the Presidents Club bestows a singular perspective can help explain certain minor mysteries of our political life. How, for example, could Clinton ever forgive George H.W. Bush, who in the 1992 campaign all but charged him with being a traitor, if not a Soviet stooge, for visiting Russia as a college student and protesting the Vietnam War “from foreign soil”? Why has Obama, whose presidential quest embodied a repudiation of everything George W. Bush stood for, heard scarcely a grumble about his policies from his once-belligerent predecessor? The answer lies in what Kennedy said to Arthur Schlesinger when asked to rank the presidents: “Only the president himself can know what his real pressures and his real alternatives are.” It’s a sentiment that virtually every president voices at one point or another in this book. - Washington Post

DISCUSSION SCHEDULE:

Chapters 1-9           9/1 through 9/8
Chapters 10-14       9/9 through 9/15
Chapters 15-19       9/16 through 9/22
Chapters 20-26       9/23 through 9/30

 

Some Topics for Consideration

CHAPTERS 1 THROUGH 5 1.    He had very bad eye sight and would rather have won a medal in war than to sit in the Oval Office.   Many of our presidents have fought in wars; does this fact impact on their campaigns?   Is it true that wartime heroes get into politics?  Does it work? 2.    Truman was called “stupid, vulgar, loud mouth, etc.  How did he overcome this image to win an election.   3.    Truman stated that he had invented the White House office so efficiently that no future president could make a mistake.  What did he mean? 4.    A president who entered the Oval Office and left more popular than any man?  Who?   Do you agree? 5.    Friends and then enemies and then friends again - who could take it without a nervous breakdown?   How could you face a good friend after making harsh statements about him in a campaign? 6.     Truman “had been in politics a long time and he knew the rules of the game?” - (pg77)  What do you think they are? 7.     Truman was the first president to claim “executive privilege” -  what were the circumstances and how many times since has that been used by our presidents? 8.     IF PRESIDENT TRUMAN WAS THE FIRST MEMBER OF THE “CLUB WHAT PRECEDENTS DID HE ESTABLISH? 9.     Truman disliked Kennedy, Eisenhower disliked Kennedy , so what happened to the club?   10.    Did you learn anything new about Truman, Eisenhower, or Kennedy?   11.    You got to have ego, lots and lots of ego.  - “I don’t know anybody who can do it (the job of being president) any better than I can…..and the pay is pretty good” - JFK    Ego, money, a war hero, he had it all and yet...........................?? 12.    The question should be - If Kennedy had lived, what would have been different? 13.   “Presidents inherit the foreign policy of their predecessors; they inherit their wars and their treaties ,,,,,and their covert operations.” - What examples can we think of? Related Links: Secrets of the Presidents Club - Video;   Book TV with Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy; Discussion Leaders:  Ella and Harold ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- VERY INTERESTING, HAROLD, JOAN AND JEAN!  Thank you! sMuch to think about in the history of our government.  The book by David McCullough - JOHN ADAMS - examines the relationship between Jefferson and Adams brilliantly and is an easy read.  We discussed it here a few years ago at some length.   Put simplya: Adams was a Federalist, a group, later a party, who wanted more power centralized in the Federal Goverment.  Jefferson belonged to a group identified as Democratic Republicans who wanted the a minimun of power in the federal goverment.  It was the beginning, I believe, of the two-party system of government which, of course, dominates the news today.

[Ella Gibbons]

We will be putting the chapter schedule -  the discussion schedule -  which we will adhere to, in the heading in the next week or two.  Watch for it and try not to read very far in the book as you will forget it all by the first of September.   

[PatH]

My book is sitting in the living room whispering "read me", but I'll resist until mid-August or later.

[HaroldArnold]

Regarding the book I am polking my way through it slowly highlighting points for discussion.  The book is certainly more than a fast read.  In fact I am finding it a rather comprehensive political history of the United States between 1945 and the present.

I am reading and highlighting discussion points on the I-pad.  I now have all my Nook books on the I-Pad.  In all I have about a dozen digital titals purchasd from B&N over the past year and a half on the I Pad.  I think reading and inserting margin discussion notes is easer on the brighter screened I pad than on the Nook.

[JoanK]

I have over 300 titles on my Nook purchased from Amazon in the last year and a half. Unfortunately mystery stories are fast reads.

[maryz]

Click here for an interesting list of books people are reading this summer.  I loved that Gwen Ifill is reading The Presidents' Club.

[Aberlaine]

Just bought the book.  I'll be joining you.

Nancy

[Ella Gibbons]

Great, NANCY, to have you are part of our group. 

Browsing through bookstores in the past (which lately, by the way, are getting very lean looking inside) I couldn't help but notice that every few months, it seemed, there was another biography of Abraham Lincoln and one can't help wondering what else there is to write about the man.  We've all read much about him over the years, I suspect.

And now another very popular book about him,  THE KILLING OF LINCOLN by Bill O'Reilly.   Has anyone read it?

If so, anything new?

[Ella Gibbons]

Without opening the book - NO FAIR PEEKING INSIDE - which president since Truman has received more attention from the authors?

Just guess!  Sorry, no prizes.  I would like to meet you all for lunch somewhere if at all possible and buy you all a piece of pie.  Cherry?  Lemon?  Apple?

I recently sold my condo and moved into a retirement situation and we have a Current Events discussion twice a month.  How very interesting it is.  Although I have belonged to book clubs most of my life, I have never participated in such a group.  And politics does come up now and then - bipartisan politics!

[mabel1015j]

Wow! That's a hard question to answer. My first thought was Johnson because of all that happened during his administration, but i don't recall his interacting with presidents - congress, YES, but not previous presidents and he died soon after his presidency. Then i thought Reagan, but i also don't recall any interaction w/ other presidents. I think of Clinton as having done that most often.

Of course, i'm making an assumption that that is what the book is going to focus on, and i may be "all wet" as the saying goes. 

Jean

[HaroldArnold]

Ella the current events discussion at your apartments is interesting.  I am surprised the they are so open.  How many attend the meetings and do they all participate?   A current event issue might come up at our table during lunch, but I don't see a special current event discussion. We probably would not have  a halfdozen attendants and half of those would not talk.  

This is a relatively small apartment with only 37 apartments .  I estimate that at least half of them should be in an assisted living facility.  Some we almost never see since they have their dinners delivered to their rooms.  Most other senior independent living facility include at least 100 units.  Yet it seems we have one of the better activity programs with frequent day trip to museums, local special events with restrauant dinners,  and even hundred mile day trips to area fairs etc.  Last month we went to a wine tasting at a vinyard near Fredreckburg.   For this reason and because of its location near nowntown San Antonio convienent to my other outside activities, I really like it here.

[Ella Gibbons]

THE DISCUSSION SCHEDULE IS IN THE HEADING - THE TEACHERS WILL RAP YOUR KNUCKLES IF YOU DON'T PAY ATTENTION IN CLASS TO THE ASSIGNMENT!!!

What?  Only one guess to my quiz posted yesterday.  JEAN, thanks for the vote but you are wrong.  I think we should wait until the discussion to ask this question again.  August will go fast, we rather hope, because the drought and very hot weather continues in Ohio and farmers are very worried about crops.

HAROLD, we have a group of about 10-12 which is just right for a Current Events discussion, everyone participates, we have it every other month with a very good leader who calls on each person by name. But my retirement home is in a 10 floor building with 23 different-designed apartments, something for everyone, with two restaurants, a gym, all kinds of meeting rooms, a library, etc.  A big place.  I'm adjusting to it slowly, using elevators to get around is very different living and  new faces everywhere.  There are no meals included.  YOu pay at the two restaurants if you go; otherwise we do our own cooking.   No one delivers meals here.
 
Strictly independent living.

 A rehab, assisted living, nursing home, etc. is attached by a long hallway.

But I have come to love the art class, just finished my first portrait - a pencil sketch of James Thurber - appropriate because our building is named Thurber Tower. 

[pedln]

Ella, I was writing as you were posting, and even though my second guess is wrong, I'll let it stand -- in support of Jean   

Ella, you ask an interesting question.  I can’t peek because I’m No. 2 on the lib list and the book is long overdue from July 16.  First I had to make a list so as not to overlook anyone.  Probably not Eisenhower  (the first President I voted for – in some administrative office my senior year in college.) or Kennedy, both long gone, nor Ford – he just doesn’t seem that memorable.  My first guess would be Nixon, partly because of his location in the chronology, and because much has been said about Watergate and his relations with China. Second guess would be Clinton, in part because he is so actively interacting today and has been since leaving the presidency.

Harold, your apartment sounds like a place I would like.  I don’t think I want to live in a big building, but 37 apartments sounds fine.  Because of my hearing I avoid large discussion groups, but with my assistive listening gadgets can enjoy and participate with a small group around a table.

[Ella Gibbons]

Thanks, PEDLIN, for your guess anyway.  Am going to wait to discuss these presidents until Sept.  I was premature, probably, with my question.  It's such a good book, I know you will enjoy it.

What is an assistive living gadget?  Even though our builing is very large, the groups are small, e.g. about 10-12 sit around a table in our Current Events discussion.  At times just 5-6 show up.  My art class has about 10 in it and most paint.  Wonderful teacher, the participants enter senior art contests and 6 of them won a contest to be on a calendar.


Remember the SECRET LIFE OF WALTER MITTY by James Thurber!  Thurber's home is in Columbus, OHio, where I live and is a very active part of our community.

http://www.thurberhouse.org/

A history of the author - 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Thurber

[Ella Gibbons]

My sketch of Thurber:  (larger than this)



I should mention that though it is my sketch it was modeled after a small one in the Columbus Monthly Magazine.  Not entirely original

After doing a bit of sleuthing on the Internet my sketch is from a self-portrait done by Thurber himself ( I just now found that information).  Click here:

http://www.google.com/search?q=james+thurber+images&hl=en&prmd=imvnso&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=A9gdUMKrOoT86gG_iICgCw&ved=0CEAQsAQ&biw=1083&bih=798s

[maryz]

Great sketch, Ella!

Your new living arrangements sound ideal.

[JoanK]

That's wonderful!

[mabel1015j]

Can i come live w/ you Ella, that sounds like a fun place to be. The community where i taught courses the last two yrs is really a community. It has houses, apartments and condos on a campus. It has both independent and assisted living. I don't know how many people live there. There were 70 people in the Women's history course I taught and 80 in the class about the 60s,70s and 80s. Some of those are non-residents from the surrounding communities, especially the Quaker community.

They have all sorts of classes all year round, current events, some wonderful watercolors are displayed onthe walls from the art classes, and Elderhostel schedules some courses there. Some are 2 hour lectures, and then classes w/ schedules of various lengths up my classes which were 6 two-hour courses.

Maybe in five or ten years i'll get to live there.

Jean

[dbroomsc]

This book really piques my interest.  Include me in the discussion.

[pedln]

Ella, your sketch is fantastic.  I hope you have it framed and hanging on your wall.

[Ella Gibbons]

Very happy to welcome you into the group discussion, DEAN!

Thanks for the comments about my Thurber sketch.  I wish you were all in the class, it's great fun and you really don't have to have any talent.  Our teacher makes it very easy and enjoyable.

[Ella Gibbons]

SHEILA, will you email me, please!  Cannot find where I put your email address.

[mabel1015j]

The book is waiting for me at the library. I'll pick it up this afternoon. Hooray!

Jean

[PatH]

Perfect timing.  I took my name off the list when it became obvious I would get it about 3 months from now.  (I own the book, was just having fun.)

[JoanP]

This was a president  in need of a friend if there ever was one...

"I felt like the moon, the stars, and all the planets had fallen on me."

[bellamarie]

Ella, Your new home sounds like a fun place to live.
 
I'll take a shot at your question and guess Richard Nixon.  Don't ask me why I choose him, I think only because he was such a troubled president/man.

I do watch Bill O Reilly and just saw that some schools are asking about using his "Killing Lincoln" in their classrooms.  It seems everyone who has read it has given him great praise for the book.

Just a few days away to beginning our book and I can't wait.  I must say I better get to reading it.  I was born in 1952 and was not very good in History throughout my years in school and the first President I voted for was Jimmy Carter.  Oh dear please do NOT ask me why because I'm not sure I can honestly defend myself.  I had never been pro active in politics nor had I paid very close attention to the elections until John Kennedy.  My awareness began when he was killed and I feel I was truly awakened the day Bobby Kennedy was killed.  I have to also admit I truly did not know what Democrat or Republican represented and never considered myself either once I did gain more knowledge.  I've become more pro active in politics and am very anxious to read this book for the sake of learning more about these men who chose to give up their private sector lives to become public/president. 

I now consider myself a political junkie.....lolol  I just hope with the help of all you brilliant members, I will be able to retain something from this book.

Ciao for now~

[Ella Gibbons]

Hello BELLAMARIE:  I doubt anyone here considers themselves "brilliant" - we all just like to read, to learn something, to wonder about the authors and their choice of words, characters, style, etc.

Were you surprised that the authors chose Truman to start the book?

I believe they considered they were beginning with the "modern" presidents.  Why this classification, do you suppose?  

[mabel1015j]

I guess with a little research i could answer this question for myself, but i'm not up for it tonight, perhaps between all of us we could figure out..........how often thru history had there been an ex-president and a possibility of a presidents club?

Well, it's obvious and we probably all know that Washington survived beyond his administration. As much as i've learned about the Federalist period, i don't recall John Adams ever calling on GW for advice. I have McCollough's book on JA, i'll see if i can find out. Jefferson, of course, had Adams, but they weren't speaking while TJ was in office. Madison had been close to TJ, so he may have called on him for help, but i don't recall him "giving him a job". But imagine Madison could have had Adams and Jefferson's brains to use and Monroe had A, J and Madison, what a president's club that would have been! I'll see what i can find in McCullough. We could go on thinking about this, it may be that Hoover and Truman really were the first members of the club to work together.

Jean

[pedln]

I believe they considered they were beginning with the "modern" presidents.  Why this classification, do you suppose?

The country had been through three traumatic events -- two wars and a great depression -- so post WWII seems like a good place to start.  We were changing gears.  People could now buy washing machines, automobiles, veterans were going to school under the GI Bill.  A new era, a modern time.

[bellamarie]

Hello Ella~I think they began with Truman because he and Hoover dates us up to the "new presidency", also they wanted to discuss the more recent presidents because "The President's Club" has the most members alive so they can show more of the interaction of the presidents in the club.  IMO  

[Ella Gibbons]

BELLAMARIE, the "new presidency" began with Truman, why?  It's just a thought and probably there is no answer.  One has to start a book somewhere.  In my opinion, I could not have left out FDR while writing a book on presidents; but FDR was solely unique, he didn't share himself with anyone.

JEAN, indeed -  a retired GW and JA advising Madison!  What a president's club that would have been, we can only speculate.  Our authors do tell us that the presidents club started with GW as he left office and became a "former" president.  It seems to me the authors are stating that the presidents club consists of all former presidents. Is that your opinion?

But the modern presidency begins with Truman, hmm.

We'll learn some interesting stuff about Truman when we begin the discussion.

Well, some of us, remember Truman.  I do!!!  FDR paid no attention to his VP and Truman, as he put it, felt as though the planets had fallen on him.  

PEDLIN, yes, the country had been through troubled times, but why consider Truman a "modern" president?    We were "changing gears" - true; it was the middle of the 20th century, we had cause to celebrate after that war, but it also brought in the nuclear age of which we are all in fear of today.

"Modern" what does it mean?

Did you notice the club is an exclusive "FRATERNITY?"  We are not modern enough are we?

[JoanP]

When choosing a Vice President, don't you wonder how much thought is given to the possibility that he - or she - might have to step in and suddenly take over the helm without  any advance warning?

[pedln]

Oh yes indeedy.  I've thought so before and think so now. That No. 2 position is just a heartbeat away from the presidency.

I'm trying to remember Ford -- he was Nixon's VP, but was he selected or did he fall into it. Wasn't Spiro "WHO?" Nixon's first VP, and did he resign under a cloud or was he just not selected again?

I don't remember much about LYndon Johnson or Nixon as we were living in Puerto Rico and more concerned with island affairs, like the bombing of the ROTC building at the U and the Independentista party.  We were  in the States the summer they televised the Watergate trials with Sam Ervin, but I don't remember if we were visiting or had moved back.

[maryz]

Spiro Agnew was Nixon's VP.  He resigned because of scandal in his home state.  Gerald Ford was appointed to fill the position, and then succeeded to the presidency when Nixon resigned.

[Ella Gibbons]

We'll learn all about those facts and concerns when we get into our book discussion AND IT STARTS TOMORROW.  I'll put questions to be considered for the first week in our heading.  They might help condense our thoughts a bit.  There is much to consider here.

We are in the midst of a bitter campaign and we'll be reading about many more in the past.  We have survived them before, oftentimes becoming stronger for the divergent views. 

One small comment (I don't think we should get into present politics) but I must say keep Hollywood out of it, wasn't Eastwood a shameful presenter last night?)

[pedln]

Didn't watch, missed the Eastwood, haven't a clue, but everyone on Morning Joe was just bewailing it.

Reading this book just raises so many questions and also brings back so memories, so now I've been flipping around, checking the index, and also going online to look stuff up.  Like the 25th Amendment, and also the line of successsion.  I'm finding a lot of gaps in my knowledge.

[bellamarie]

Ella  I have to say Eastwood was as usual an entertainer at his best!  I laughed out loud at him.  You really do have to be able to find the humor in times like this because it can get a bit overwhelming.  Critics are always ready to attack the morning after so it did not surprise me what they were saying about Eastwood or any of the other speakers last night at the RNC.  The mainstream media has not been at all unbiased in the past election nor this one.  I am shocked at how they refuse to cover stories that don't seem to fit in their narrow mindedness or party favor. 

I think throughout history the media has played an essential part in how people are able to get to know candidates.  I am so thankful for more sources than just our televisions.  Anyone now wanting to know background is just a mouse click away rather than wait for your newscasters to spoon feed you what "they" want you to know.  Egads.....can you tell I have little faith in the media today?   LOLOL

Ciao for now~

[Ella Gibbons]

I agree, BELLEMARIE, if we listened to TV how in the world could a person learn the truth.  I think we must read more indepth material before we decide; I find PBS to be less biased.

I have put questions (many, many questions, too many I'm sure) for you to consider as you read our chapters and we begin out discussion.

I have company early in the morning from out of state, so may not get in here until late, if at all.  Perhaps Harold will drop in.

MEANWHILE, HAVE AT IT!  WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK OF TRUMAN AND HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH HOOVER AND EISENHOWER??

[HaroldArnold]

OK, everyone we are about to begin our discussion of the Ex Presidents Club. Based on Eastern time we are within an hour of the official start.  I 'll be back in the morning to respond to you east coast early birds.  

Meanwhile I will comment now on recent post relative to earlier Ex Presidents associations/quasi clubs.  Looking back on the century and a half history of the Nation pre Truman, as I see it in general Ex Presidents on the completion of their term or terms went home to their farm, town or City where they lived their remaining years in relative obscurity.  There were exceptions I'm sure, the most notable Taft who went to the Supreme Court.  I suspect also there were a few others who returned to politics in the Congress or state or local positions.  Finally the well known correspondence between Thomas Jefferson and John Adams has some of the characteristics of a club although this was strictly between the two Ex Presidents and never seems to have involved a sitting President.   Definitely as I see it today's Club association of Ex Presidents as it has developed since the 1950's is a new but today a real and important institution making the accumulated experience of the pool of past Presidents available to the current President. 

It has also provided continue service for the retirees apparently without additional pay, some of which has involved physical discomfort and even danger not always  enthusiastically accepted by the members.  This can be something to discuss as we proceed through the project.   

[kidsal]

Examples of presidents inheriting wars and covert operations?  Truman -- inherited WWII but had been kept out of the loop and didn't know about the atomic bomb until he became president.  Obama -- two wars - naturally he was informed of ongoing secret operations concerning terrorists.  It must be quite a shock to incoming presidents when briefed about what is happening behind the scenes in foreign affairs.