Tempest, The ~ William Shakespeare ~ October Book Club Online

[Babi]

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The Tempest, Shakespeare's last play, was written in 1611 in the final period of his career.   The play is not really a comedy, but  combines elements of tragedy with comedy, a tragicomedy.    Shakespeare set the play on an unnamed island in an unidentified age. In it, he  portrays an aging magician, Prospero,  who has been living in exile with his young daughter on a remote island for the past twelve years. Over the course of a single day, Prospero uses his magic to whip up a tempest to shipwreck the men responsible for his banishment. He then proceeds to dazzle and dismay the survivors (and the audience) with his art as he orchestrates his triumphant return home where he plans to retire in peace. For a lot of audiences and literary scholars, Prospero seems like a stand-in in for Shakespeare, who spent a lifetime dazzling audiences before retiring in 1611, shortly after The Tempest was completed. Its epilogue seems to be a final and fond farewell to the stage. When Prospero (after giving up the art of magic he's spent a lifetime perfecting) appears alone before the audience he confesses, "Now my charms are all o'erthrown, / And what strength I have's mine own," we can't help but wonder of Shakespeare is speaking through this character here. From multiple sources, including Shakespearean Criticism, Gale Cengage

Discussion Schedule

Act II	October 8~14
Act III	October  15~21
Act IV	October 22~28
Act V	October 29~Nov.4

Some Topics to Consider Act II   1. In Act Two, Scene 1, we find other passengers from the ship in another part of the island. What are the following people doing in the beginning of this scene: Alonso, Sebastian, Antonio and Gonzalo? How are each of them characterized and what is their attitude? Why is Alonso especially sad? 2. From what event in Tunis were they coming back when their ship was caught in the tempest? What are their thoughts about the event? 3. Gonzalo makes a speech about how he would govern if he were king on the island. He is interrupted by Sebastian and Antonio. How would you describe Gonzalo's view and the reaction of the others? 4. What are the arguments that Antonio uses to convince Sebastian to commit murder? Are you persuaded by any of the arguments that Sebastian has a right to the throne? 5. In scene Two there is a funny meeting between Caliban, Trinculo and Stephano. What does Caliban think Trinculo is? What does Trinculo think Caliban is? What does Stephano think Trinculo and Caliban are? 6. What does Caliban pledge to do and why? What do Trinculo and Stephano plan to do? 7. Where do you find the role of Providence espoused in Act Two? 8. What other themes do you find reflected in Act Two? 9. What lines from Act Two do you think are especially memorable? 10. Are there ideas from William Strachey's letter that seems to be reflected in this act?       Relevant links:   The Tempest (Electronic Version) , BookTV: Hobson Woodard: A Brave Vessel , Translation of W. Strachey's long letter describing the shipwreck to the Excellent Woman, Listen to Ralph Vaughan Williams' "Full Fathom Five" Memorable Quotes from The Tempest - a list in Progress   DLs:   Marcie,  JoanP,   Barb,  JoanK ,  Babi   Sebastian may be right about the decision to marry Alonso's daughter so far away, but I don't think much of a man who would attack his brother when he is grieving over the death of a son. I see no evidence whatsoever of any kind of brotherly affection between them.  Thanks for those analyses, MARCIE. It's a pleasure to see those contrasts and contradictions so clearly summarized.  The plotting of Sebastian and Antonio was so pointless. As the quote says, ..'consider human nature'.  Some people want to be on top, no matter what the situation.  BARB, I must conclude that Strachey would have made a terrible governor, and would have been responsible for the natives wiping out the colony long before that vessel reached it, had he been in charge.  As you observe in your next post, Somers is the kind of leader we respect and understand.

[JoanP]

Babi...If you think Strachey would have made a terrible governor, what sort of governor or king do you think Gonzolo would have made - if given the chance to rule here on this Mediterranean island?   Has Prospero given a name to this island?  Gonzalo has no idea that there are any inhabitants here on the island...least of all Prospero.  But he's thinking like one of the colonizers in the New World, I think...wishing to leave behind all of the laws of the Old World.

Doesn't it sound as if these castaways are thinking of staying on the island long term?  They don't seem to be making any plans to continue on their trip home, do they?  I guess you'd say the King Alonso is in charge, but he is so deep in mourning, he thinks nothing but his son.  So why is Gonzalo even talking about being the governor on this untamed island?

I've a footnote that describes the fresh start Gonzalo describes - taken straight out of the first book of Ovid's Metamorphosis on the Golden Age in Greek mythology...
I'll post the first book here so you can see Shakespeare's source for yourself...

The Golden Age
The golden age was first; when Man yet new,
No rule but uncorrupted reason knew: And, with a native bent, did good pursue.
Unforc'd by punishment, un-aw'd by fear,
His words were simple, and his soul sincere;
Needless was written law, where none opprest:
The law of Man was written in his breast:
No suppliant crowds before the judge appear'd,
No court erected yet, nor cause was heard:
But all was safe, for conscience was their guard.
The mountain-trees in distant prospect please,
E're yet the pine descended to the seas:
E're sails were spread, new oceans to explore:
And happy mortals, unconcern'd for more,
Confin'd their wishes to their native shore.
No walls were yet; nor fence, nor mote, nor mound,
Nor drum was heard, nor trumpet's angry sound:
Nor swords were forg'd; but void of care and crime,
The soft creation slept away their time.
The teeming Earth, yet guiltless of the plough,
And unprovok'd, did fruitful stores allow:
Content with food, which Nature freely bred,
On wildings and on strawberries they fed;
Cornels and bramble-berries gave the rest,
And falling acorns furnish'd out a feast.
The flow'rs unsown, in fields and meadows reign'd:
And Western winds immortal spring maintain'd.
In following years, the bearded corn ensu'd
From Earth unask'd, nor was that Earth renew'd.
From veins of vallies, milk and nectar broke;
And honey sweating through the pores of oak.

[marcie]

Barbara, thanks for your thoughts about Stachey and the New World wilderness/paradise and parallels in The Tempest.

Babi, yes Sebastian verbally attacks his brother Alonso while he is grieving for his son and his daughter who is essentially lost to him since she is so far away. He puts the blame on Alonso "Sir, you may thank yourself for this great loss..." for arranging the marriage that brought them out to sea. He also goes along with Antonio's plan to kill Alonso and Gonzalo.

JoanP, Gonzalo's speech does seem to echo the ideas and some of the line of Ovid's Metamorphosis. Gonzalo seems to believe that
 "Needless was written law, where none opprest:
The law of Man was written in his breast..."

Though Sebastian and Antonio's commentary on Gonzalo's speech is very funny
Gonzalo starts his speech by saying "Had I plantation of this isle, my lord, ---  And were the king on't, what would I do?" and goes on making statements such as:
 "No occupation; all men idle, all;
    And women too, but innocent and pure;
    No sovereignty;--

Then Sebastian and Antonio interrup with these funny lines:

"SEBASTIAN: Yet he would be king on't.

ANTONIO: The latter end of his commonwealth forgets the beginning. "

Even Gonzalo's view of a society without laws first posits that he be "king" to enforce his vision.

[Jonathan]

The Golden Age, what a dream. How  beautiful life could be. Thanks, JoanP, for that passage from from Ovid's great work. No doubt it caught Shakespeare's imagination. He allows Gonzalo to dream of a return to that blessed state...'wishing to leave behind all the laws of the Old World. Is there a shred of evidence that Prospero has made an attempt to make the island an idyllic place for everyone? He has the capability it seems.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Barb, but doesn't the new Governor, to save the new settlement in Virginia, draw up a stern code of behavior for the settlers. Lawlessness just doesn't work. Strachey, as secretary, writes it up and sends a copy of it back to England.

Did Caliban turn into a monster the minute he tried to rape Miranda? Perhaps so. But what does that make King Alonso, imposing that forced exile and marriage on his daughter Claribel? That could make him a fiend. No brave new world for her as there seems to be for Miranda.

Talking about 'brave'. Everyone is caught up with it. For example:

Caliban: 'That's a brave god, (the drunken Stephano) I will kneel to him.'
...'I will show thee every fertile inch o' th' island; And I will kiss your foot. I prithee  be my god.'

And Stephano's reply: 'O brave monster! lead the way.'

Everybody talks that way on the island. It's been used a dozen times in the first two acts. This has to have a happy ending.

[Jonathan]

I would like to see Caliban played by a handsome young man, surrounded by these devilish guys.

[BarbStAubrey]

The Ovid's Metamorphosis on the Golden Age in Greek mythology appears to still be our national USA pin up...

Reading this makes me want to re-read Shakespeare researching history - however, JoanP, as you found the Ovid piece (rah rah) it seems the plays are very layered with bits and pieces from other writers. It would take reading the works of authors known during Shakespeare's career. This discussion is bringing new insight into what is creative art.

Someone brought up that Prospero had power over Ariel and Caliban - we could include Miranda. It is easy to think because she was a child that of course he would have power over her - however, he tells of their earlier life from his point of view and was surprised that she had any memory of her early childhood -

I wondered if he felt challenged that his explanation would be accepted as truth - truth or not, he strings it out making sure Miranda sees what happened from his viewpoint - On this Island he controlled all of them - that not being enough he learns to control the sea and the wind. (Is that what Shakespeare is saying about himself on his Island)

Will Prospero's control extend over the shipwrecked group - the "honorable" and successful side of the family - after all he was/is the dishonored castaway/throwaway.

hmmm - is this an example of 'do unto others what has been done unto you' - Prospero controls as he was controlled. hmm is Jonathan's just desserts, our instinctive stick it to controlling authority. Ah for such control over the TSA employee.

[JoanP]

Reading this makes me want to re-read Shakespeare researching history

I know exactly what you are saying, Barbara!  As we note and dig deeper into the many literary sources and current events Shakespeare drew from in order to strike familiar chords with his audience, I can see where these plays were not intended first and foremost to be considered as literature, but staged entertainment for his live audience.  It was only  years after his death the scripts were gathered into the folios and reproduced as we read them now.

After considering Shakespeare in this light, like you, Barbara, I'm reminded of how much I've been missing - and to fully appreciate his works, I too need to reread all of his plays again!  I'm certainly happy we are examining his work so closely!

ps. Jonathan - your frequent comments on the use of the adjective "brave" reminds me of the note in the Folger edition - commenting on the "brave" ship - translates "brave" as "splendid."  What do you make of that?

[JoanP]

King Alonso and his daughter Claribel's wedding in Africa.

Sitting here in the audience of The Tempest, alongside of King James I, I'm wondering what he, (James) thinks of the criticism  the King is getting for "exiling his daughter to Tunis, so far from home.  Wasn't this a huge celebration - a grand wedding not seen since Queen Dido's wedding of old.? I'm remembering that the play was staged to please King James whose own daughter Elizabeth is hoping to marry Frederick V  - this is a love match, or so we're told, which is unusual at the time - and all seem to be pleased with the fact that she will marry and become the Queen of Bavaria.  Do you believe that she is?  Happy?
 
Perhaps her Uncle Sebastian is being too critical of Claribel's marriage when he describes the girl as "caught between loatheness and obedience" (disinclination to her marriage and obedience to her father. Folger edition note)  

How exactly do you see Antonio's plan?  He's trying to make Sebastian see that Claribel is too far away (in exile), that Ferdinand is lost...and that if Sebastian's brother the king were disposed of, then the king's brother Sebastian would be the next in line for the throne?  So then Sebastian would be king of Naples and Alonso would continue to be Duke of Milan.  So how does this benefit Antonio?  What is his motive for talking Sebastian into this dastardly act?  Is the answer right before us in this act, or must we read on?

[Babi]

 I think Gonzalo's notions of government have a flaw similar to Strachey's, JOAN. Strachey
thinks only the lower classes should work; Gonzalo thinks nobody should have to work.
  These castaways believe their ship is wrecked. So unless another ship happens by this
out-of-the-way island, they are stuck. And of course we've already been wondering why
they would bother to fight over the lordship of this wild scrap.
 Alas, I fear Ovid's few of the primal nature was pure romance. But then, so was Gonzalo's.
From what bits of the history of those times I know, there was competition for the
leadership of the small tribes. If food was scarce, there was competition for what was
available. Feeding oneself and one's family...survival...was the imperative. The strong
oppressed the weak.
 If any of you have different informaton on primitive man, please educate me!

 JOANP,  if I understand their agreement correctly, Antonio will help Sebastian to the
kingship of Milan, and in return Sebastian is to lighten the 'taxes' Naples pays to Milan.
Naples is to enjoy a preferred status and special privileges. 

 Poor Claribel.  We don't know that she found her new husband distasteful, or that she will
be unhappy in Tunis.  But of course she would loathe the idea of leaving behind her home,
family, friends and all she knew, to marry a strange man in a strange country.  I decided
early on, based on my reading, that belonging to the nobility/royalty had severe drawbacks!

 Notes: Caliban's closing taunt toward Prospero at the end of Sc. II sounds so much like a small boy's. "Ban, Ban, Caliban,  has a new master.  Get a new man!"   

  And pignuts!  Did you know what pignuts are? " Pignuts (earthnuts) ..a somewhat bitter nut popular with pigs."  Our hickory tree is apparently a variety of pignut tree.  Anyone eaten
any hickory nuts?  Were they the 'pignut' variety?

[marcie]

Barbara, I'm with you in finding out how much I don't know about the history of Shakespeare's times as well as all of the classical allusions he includes.

Joan, there aren't a lot of characters in this play but with the two somewhat similar names, Alonso and Antonio, I get confused about who's who and who rules what. I believe that Antonio is Prospero's brother and Antonio (with help from Alonso, King of Naples) overthrew Prospero from his position as Duke of Milan. Now Antonio is Duke of Milan. He is trying to get Sebastian  (King Alonso's brother) to kill Alonso so that Sebastian will be King of Milan and, together,  Sebastian and Antonio will be allies and support each other. As Babi indicates, Antonio's deal with King Alonso to overthrow Prospero in the first place was in exchange for taxes that Milan would owe to Naples. Antonio wants to get out of that deal by killing Alonso.

[marcie]

I would like to see Caliban played by a handsome young man, surrounded by these devilish guys.

Jonathan, I enjoy that you are usually a contrarian in your insights into the books we read together! I think you point to Shakespeare's plays not showing his characters in black and white. He usually provides characteristics and actions that make us think twice.

[JudeS]

By chance I ordered  from The Teaching Co. the 36 lectures of "The Western Literacy Canon in Context". I haven't listened to the CDs as yet. There are 36 lectures and one is on The Tempest. The other Shakespeare play chosen is Hamlet.

The Professor who put together this series, John M. Bowers, writes in the Guide book as follows;

"Shakespeares career extended into the period of English colonization in the new world with the founding of the Virginia settlement in1607. His valedictory comedy The Tempest imagines Europeans discovering this "brave new woeld".
Armed with books, Prospero colonizes his island, enslaves the population, and imposes his language upon the natives..........
European conflicts follow the settlers as Prospero's old political enemies arrive, bringing alcohol to corrupt the islander Caliban." .......

"This play examines, in ways that are truly prescient, what it means to take possession of, and administer an overseas colony".
This writer also says "Shakespeare, like so many great writers, did not borrow; he stole in term of his plots."

What thinkest thou of these ideas?

[JoanK]

" the note in the Folger edition - commenting on the "brave" ship - translates "brave" as "splendid." 

I've seen brave used in that way a lot in British literature, as in "at the dance, the sisters made a brave (i.e. splendid) showing in their finery."

[JoanP]

"Shakespeare, like so many great writers, did not borrow; he stole in term of his plots."

So true, Jude - That was his art, wasn't it?  Knowing which sources to use to weave into one cohesive drama!

When Marcie writes:
"there aren't a lot of characters in this play but with the two somewhat similar names, Alonso and Antonio, I get confused about who's who and who rules what."  I was just reading Hobson Woodwards book on the Brave Vessel and came across this:

"A book that may have met Shakespeare's gaze as he searched for a theme was William Thomas's 1549 Historye of Italye.  Thomas tells the story of Prospero Adorno, a duke of Genoa who was deposed in 1461.  The book also tells of King Alphonso of Naples who married a daughter of the Duke of Milan and abdicated in favor of his son Ferdinand. "

These were actual people - taken from this historical account. Makes you wonder where he took the name Antonio from, doesn't it?

[JoanP]

His valedictory comedy The Tempest imagines Europeans discovering this "brave new world".

Jonathan has noted the number of times Shakespeare has used the adjective, "brave" in this play.  It isn't until we reach the end of the play where we find perhaps the most oft-quoted line from the play -

 "How many goodly creatures are there here!
 How beauteous mankind is!
 O brave new world,
 That has such people in it!"

I think your right,  JoanK - we need to think of "brave"  as "splendid" and "beauteous"  when we come on it in this play...

[Babi]

  What a fascinating find, JOANP!  Milan, Naples, Prospero and Ferdinand.  Shakespeare was obviously not only well-
educated and well-read,  he kept a close watch on current events as well.  All grist for his mill.  And it would not have
been as easy then to know what was happening in other countries.  You would need friends close to court for that, I
would think.
 Would anybody care to venture how many new books/plays are written each year based on current events and popular themes?  That is, if you have a lot of time on your hands. 

   Fire brand.  Puzzled again, when Caliban speaks of being Prospero's 'spirits' leading him "like a firebrand, in the dark out of my way". One thinks of a firebrand as being for the exact purpose of leading one safely on the way in the dark.
   Aha, footnote! Shakespeare is apparently referring here to a 'will-o'-the-wisp', one of those odd lights sometimes
found in marshy areas.  I think there are still people living who think those things are something spooky.

[Jonathan]

'we need to think of "brave"  as "splendid" and "beauteous"  when we come on it in this play...'

Au contraire, JoanP. I believe Shakespeare found himself often at a loss for a word that would express a strong emotion. When Miranda first uses 'brave', it follows her exclamation: 'O, I have suffered with those that I saw suffer'. That's well illustrated in Romney's picture in Post #48. Or in the heading above. Miranda's heart is torn.

To Folger's 'splendid', Arden's 'magnificent', my Kittredge edition adds 'gallant'. for the meaning of 'brave'. At other times, four or five at last count, Kittredge suggests 'fine' when 'brave' is used. I don't think that's enough, I hear it being used with great feeling, conveying wonder, admiration, or extreme sympathy, etc.

)Thanks, Marcie. for drawing my attention to my contrary style. I'm trying very hard to overcome. It's been the bane of my life.)

There's a source for everything in Shakespeare, seemingly. Oh, brave immortality! How many writers of forgotten letters, memoirs, histories, journeys, have been dragged into eternal fame on Shakespeare's coattails.

The bravest aspect of all is what Shakespeare has done with what he stole. He hmself says it best: this stolen matter in his hands, 'doth suffer a sea-change into something rich and strange.'

[marcie]

Jonathan, when it comes to critiquing and discussing books, I think that a contrarian view is very useful. I think you bring interesting, "brave," and thought-provoking perspectives to our discussions.

Speaking of which.... I've just finished reading the short section on THE TEMPEST in Harold Bloom's book, SHAKESPEARE: THE INVENTION OF THE HUMAN. The controversial literary critic Bloom is not interested in plot or historical context in relation to his view of the genius of Shakespeare. His book focuses on a few characters from Shakespeare's work that to him epitomize the "inwardness" of what it means to be human. Bloom says the name Prospero is the Italian translation of Faustus ("the favored one"). He calls Prospero the anti-Faustus -- a man who achieves Faustus's power without signing away his soul.

JoanP, thanks for the information about the people who seem to be represented in some of The Tempest's characters. It does seem that Shakespeare brought "current event" references into his plays.

[JoanK]

Jonathan""The bravest aspect of all is what Shakespeare has done with what he stole."

Well said!

[PatH]

Jonathan, please don't stop your habit of stating the opposite view.  I haven't forgotten our discussion of Staying On, where you kept saying things that left me thinking "I should have thought of that, but I didn't".

[JudeS]

Marcie
I too got confused with the names However I made myself a silly jingle to remember who is who.
(Please, this is only a way to remember, not an attempt to compete with Mr. S)

Neither good nor bad is AlonSo
Just So-So.
Easily swayed, not a real foe.
AlonSo Just So-So.


Younger brother of Prospero,AntoNio.
To his evil ways we say_Nio -Nio-!
Boundless is his  evil show.
Antonio, to you we say No-No..

Hope that helps Marcie.

[marcie]

Jude, the bard would be proud! That's great...and helpful.

[BarbStAubrey]

Well that helps Jude - I wonder if there was a reason the two names are close - Alonso and Antonio - do you think it was to show how the complimented each other - I do not see one foreshadowing the other

Alonso is a sur name that is Spanish and goes back to the Visigoths - many with the last name of Alonso were among the first to settle South America - where as Antonio is an Italian name that originates in Ancient Rome with the most famous, Marc Antonius, who arouses the masses against those who killed Caesar and falls head over heals for ahum Elizabeth Taylor  

the names sure strengthen the Naples Milan associations but I wonder if there is something more having two names so close.

Found this hilarious youtube using puppets -

http://www.youtube.com/embed/5xYzRsQBn_M?feature=player_embedded

It actually helped because I was not getting the humor just reading this and I'm struggling with the old  English. I have not found a good annotated copy - there are so many words that are simply not explained - This silly video the humor is so over the top using the puppets that I can see how some of the play was looked at as ridiculous when it was first presented on stage.

[BarbStAubrey]

Here is our Miranda done in the early 1900s by Waterhouse.

[Babi]

 Great post, JONATHAN!  I found myself smiling happily and nodding at just about all
of it! 

 So Prospero is the Italian translatin of Faustus. That does open up new areas for
thought.  Happily, there have been, and are, powerful people who managed not to let it
destroy them and were/are able to use their power and wealth for good.

 JUDE, you have such a pixie-ish humor. I'll bet you would have made a terrific
Ariel!

 BARB, for some of the old English, I find it possible to grasp the meaning from the
context. Sometimes the similarity to another word gives a clue as well. 'Alarum', for
instance, is easy to figure out.  And 'prithee' is easy enough to read as 'pray thee'.
It adds a piquancy to the text for me.
  Thanks for that picture. I like the appearance of that Miranda much better than
the one I had imagined.  But then, my imaginings are probably more in keeping with
a 15-year old, wholly naive young girl.  (hmm...those are extremely rare now, aren't
they.) 
  Really, what impression do the rest of you have of Miranda?

[JoanP]

"The bravest aspect of all is what Shakespeare has done with what he stole. He himself says it best: this stolen matter in his hands, 'doth suffer a sea-change into something rich and strange.'

Jonathan, that is such a wonderful way of describing what Shakespeare has done with everything he reads and witnesses.

"I was not getting the humor just reading this and I'm struggling with the old  English. I have not found a good annotated copy" Barbara

Barbara, I'm thinking of two different Tempest audiences - those in Shakespeare's time, who spoke the old English, who got the puns, who were aware of the discoveries in the New World, had paid the coin to look at the "Indian"on display,  brought back from the colonies...

...and those of us, watching the play on the stage, or reading it - without annotations.

Shakespeare's audience would have recognized Caliban as one of the native Americans they had already seen on display.   Shakespeare even refers to the "strange beast," the dead Indian" in SCENE 2, line 34 when they find Caliban asleep under his cloak.

But what of us, the modern audience?  Are we getting the humor?  To me, the whole idea of the shipwrecked nobles plotting to murder, to overthrow brothers in order to gain power...thrones and scepters on this empty island...without a care in the world about how they are going to return.  That really strikes me as funny!  All this plotting -  to be King of Nothing.
My heart goes out to the king - Alonso, who is mourning the loss of his son.

Babi - I think we need to read more about Miranda to answer your question.  The poor girl has never seen another man except Caliban (do we count Ariel as a man?) - She's 15 years old, "naive" as you describe her - and here comes the handsome young Ferdinand.  Is it any wonder that she is smitten?  We can't fault her, can we?  She showed compassion for those on the sinking ship and talked her father into saving them...to her credit.

[JudeS]

Hey BarbStAubrey

In my post 993 (Reply93) page 3 I suggested this animated version of Shakespeare.  There ar four parts and one is as much fun as the other. I am, in general trying to see this as a comedy. which it is.
  A comedy with tragic overtones because of the past history of the protagonist, Prospero.


This is the goal I set myself at the begginning of this discussion.
Once I figured this out everything fell into place.
Since itis a comedy it is necessary for the villains to be punished, but not too harshly.
It is necessary for the fair maid to be married to her Prince Charming.
It must be that past wrongs are righted.
There must be magic in the form of a cloak and a magic stick.
There must also be magic sprites and a witch(Caliban's mother).

However since it is Shakespeare and not The Brothers Grimm we hear that Prosperos books are his magic. Caliban says this in that animated  video:"Ban his books. His magic is in his books."

Since my basic question has been answered I can sit back and enjoy the rest of the show.

[BarbStAubrey]

Ha well it just took me awhile to even think that watching the story was going to be the way to go - sorry Jude - as we learned back in the 1980s adults learn when they need to know - during the early part of this discussion I was still convinced I could dope out the story and its intent by reading the play - ah so... best laid plans of mice and men - looks like we think alike so that when we find something good we share it...

You found 4 parts - I only found 3 - it appears I need to hunt for a fourth. And I have not watched the 3rd because I am trying to stay within the reading schedule in that I may be one of the few reading this who has not ever seen or previously read The Tempest and so I wanted to greet each scene with 'Fresh' eyes.

By the way, did you notice how often in the play he uses the word 'fresh'

Anyhow, I was being so stubborn about seeing this performed - talk about being a blockhead when it is a play and so I finally found and let's call it a happy coincidence that we have a similar reaction to this funny and delightful youtube video.

I like seeing life messages behind the story and I like seeing the analogies therefore, my personal intent was to read afresh a classical old story and see what came up - In the meantime we were introduced to the historical event that was the seed for the story plus, we learned the stories from other authors and lots of history were all incorporated into the play - we even learned the plot has direct ties to historical events and so the analogies were set before I opened the first page and we have been making  the connections finding more and more to connect to the play. What the messages are - I guess there really are many according to what and how we each see the characters and their characterizations.

As to seeing the humor - if I was not told this was a comedy I would have had a difficult time guessing - as JoanP pointed out being in the audience during the 1600s is one thing reading this 400 years later is quite another.

[BarbStAubrey]

I had to look and find the use of the word 'fresh' that hit me while writing the post.

Ariel says, "On their sustaining garments not a blemish, / But fresher than before"
Gonzalo repeats his fresh clothes observation to Alonso
Some food we had and some fresh water
The fresh springs, brine pits, barren place and fertile.
No, noble mistress;'tis fresh morning with me

Now in poetry a word repeat is calling attention to something - I do not know but wonder if this is true in a play?

[BarbStAubrey]

Didn't that bit with Trinculo, Stephano and Caliban remind you of Beckett's Waiting for Godot

[BarbStAubrey]

Ah ha - found it - word repetition is a means to create suspense in a play... tra la... now what could be suspenseful about the word 'fresh' or what could it be leading to - what is the suspense - sheesh another thread to look for...

[PatH]

Shakespeare's audience would have recognized Caliban as one of the native Americans they had already seen on display.   Shakespeare even refers to the "strange beast," the dead Indian" in SCENE 2, line 34 when they find Caliban asleep under his cloak.

..........................................

The poor girl has never seen another man except Caliban (do we count Ariel as a man?)

Here's some evidence that Caliban is a man, although brutish, but Ariel is not:

My book has the cast of characters from the 1623 edition.  In Shakespeare's time all the male characters are listed first, in descending order of rank, and only then the female characters.  (So a queen would be listed after a swineherd.)  Caliban comes after the king, princes, and lords, but before the servants and mariners, so he is a man.  Miranda comes after the mariners.  Then comes Ariel, an ayrie spirit, followed by other spirits. So Ariel is either female, or, more likely, a "spirit" of neither sex.

[JoanK]

"Didn't that bit with Trinculo, Stephano and Caliban remind you of Beckett's Waiting for Godot."

I never thought of that, but you're right. Who knows how much of the literature we know is based on Shakespeare!

Thee puppets are great! And Jude, your poetry is outstanding!

[JoanP]

Jude, as I read your post, I found myself wondering just what these books of magic Prospero took with him to the island really were.  And since Gonzalo provided the books, I wonder if Gonzalo shares Prospero's interest in them.  Do you think there was widespread interest in such books during Shakespeare's time?

PatH - how very Perceptive of you - "Ariel is either female, or, more likely, a "spirit" of neither sex" in Shakespeare's mind, because of where "she/it" is placed in the original cast of characters!  Love it!

Barbara, thank you!   "a word repeat is calling attention to something" - will start to note how often Shakespeare uses this practice.

Do you see the scene with Trinculo and Stephano as comic relief?  Did Shakespeare's audience?  That's often how Shakespeare uses  servants and other rascals in his plays...especially those who have had a little too much "sack" - sack =sweet wine.   Funny how Stephano managed to save himself - get a whole barrel of wine off the sinking ship. As I understand it, Trinculo and Caliban think they are the only two survivors of the wreck...so they are walking around this island not knowing it is inhabited, until they stumble over Caliban on the beach.  Since they are the only survivors -the king and prince are dead -  they must now inherit the island.  

Did you notice allusions to the quality of the water? - Caliban tells them of the "infections" and "disease" in the water, so they pour the sack into his mouth - to tame the beast.  Of course he is drunk now - and walks off with Trinculo and Stephano - the new masters of the island.

One of Marcie's last questions - "Are there ideas from William Strachey's letter that seems to be reflected in this act?"
I remember reading that he described the briney waters  at the Jamestown settlement as unfit to drink.  Shakespeare seems to have incorporated that into this last scene.  Also, there is direct reference to the savage "men of Ind" - which I took as a reference to the "Indians" of the New World the settlers were trying to subjugate...
Shakespeare's audience would have recognized this - but if we were reading or watching the play, do you think we would have made the connection between this isle and the New World at this point?  

[Babi]

I would say that covers it beautifully, JUDE.

 I can't imagine 'fresh' will be all that significant, BARB. Just like today, some
words are so current and 'fresh' that everybody uses them constantly without even
noticing.

 Aha! Thank you, PatH. I had Ariel pegged as a non=gender spirit early on.

 JOANP, since Prospero was desribed as scholarly type with a large library, I
assumed they were some of his own books. Gonzalo had been ordered ship off Prosperos
and his daughter, he at least made a point of sending with them everything he
thought might be useful to them, including some of the precious books.
  Oh, Trinculo and Stephano are definitely the comic relief. And trust a man
addicted to drink to save what's important! Don't barrels float?

   [Side note] While looking into Elizabethan humor, I couldn't resist this later gem:
In trying to be clever, the Earl of Rochester once left a message on King Charles II's bedchamber door. It read:

"Here is our sovereign lord the king,
Whose promise noone relies on;
He never said a foolish thing,
Nor ever did a wise one."

Not to be outdone, Charles replied with the following:
"This is very true, for my words are my own, and my actions are those of my ministers."
 

[Babi]

  Darn!  I don't know why my post repeats itself.  I can't modify it, since the duplication does
not appear on my original post written in the Notepad.   

[marcie]

Jude and Barbara, I've watched some of the animated "abridged" version of the play and think it's funny. A good way to "see" the play. And,Barbara, yes, I too think that the exchange among Trinculo, Stephano and Caliban had the feel of Samuel Beckett's "Waiting for Godot." Jude, I appreciate your synthesis of the comedic features of the play. That provides a great overview of the tone. I found, in reading the play, some very funny sections.

Barbara, I tried to search the Internet for some special meaning of "fresh" to Shakespeare but wasn't successful. However, I did find a very useful website. It let's you search all of Shakespeare's plays and poems for the use of any word!  I found that Shakespeare used the word "fresh" 86 times in his plays. (That doesn't seem like an overwhelming number in 37 plays.) The site is at http://www.shakespeareswords.com/Search

There is another interesting site at http://www.pathguy.com/shakeswo.htm that lists phrases and words likely made up by Shakespeare (after the list of phrases, the individual words are listed). He's thought to have coined words such as accommodation, amazement, fancy-free, frugal, laughable, sea-change, and star-crossed!

PatH, that's an interesting find to have the characters listed by gender (and non-gender). In the "Shakespeare: An Overview" section of the version of the Tempest that I'm reading (Signet Classics) there is a good discussion of the fact that all of the parts were played by men or young boys and how it's unclear if that was an accepted convention that the audience was just used to and didn't think about or whether there were sexual innuendos to the roles where boys played female parts.

JoanP, thanks for pointing out the allusions to the safety of the water in the play and in Strachey's letter. I agree that we should continue to look out for references to Prospero's "magic book" that JudeS points out.

Babi, that exchange between the Earl of Rochester and King Charles II is very "Shakespearean." :-)

[BarbStAubrey]

Fabulous just wonderful links Marcie - just grand - been playing with some words and amazing - Yep your are right 37 times however,   yep a however -- the only play that uses the word 8 times is The Tempest

After playing with a few other words like storm, water, king, freedom, fire, - only freedom and fresh are used though out the play appearing in every chapter where so far the other words only appear in chapters I and II - King does appear 10 times but only used in acts I and II compared to Fresh 8 and Freedom 7 - I could be dead wrong but I think freedom and fresh may be connected - like starting over fresh - after atoning for your sins sort of thing  -  well we have more than half of the play to go so maybe this is a thread - it could be a dud but worth a 'we shall see what we shall see' approach.

I thought the freedom song by Caliban interesting along with fun. Did y'all notice he sings his song about how he is free because he has a new master. Hmmm not sure that is my idea of freedom and I've been trying to wrap my head around that one. Also, the fact he is filled with drink - is it suggesting we are only free when we are not fully connected to our faculties - is the suggestion that we should all go out and have a puff or drink to the bottom a few glasses - and that is freedom? Or maybe it is to suggest only fools and drunks seek freedom.

Interesting little bit - I remember reading up on fools and their role in court politics - the Jester and the comic could get away with saying things that others would loose their head if they made a similar suggestion, and the Jester had to be the smartest in the room to keep his position. They were usually smart men, who hid their brain power behind wit. They were physically not able to carry out a trade or labor in the fields. Because of their physical inability they were usually kicked out of their home and those who were smart enough found their way to serve a lord.

Wonder if the drinking scene is uniting these three, adding a fools role to Caliban's usefulness. Even that reminds me of the role taken on by the Irish when they acted the 'Patty', especially when the moved to England where they were not wanted in order to make some money. Even in the US I remember as a kid seeing signs in store and restaurant windows - No Irish Here. Caliban as a 'Patty' is more acceptable to an audience - he is simply a fool rather than a monster. Again, we shall see as the play proceeds to unfold.

I love the example of Elizabethan humor...

[Jonathan]

Looking for the humor. That's almost as problematical as the plot. It all seems so unreal. Antonio and Sebastian plotting murder so soon after escaping death themselves, with hardly a thougt for the future. That's a good example, JoanP.

I watched The Tempest the other night. A filmed version of the staged play, with Christopher Plummer playing Prospero. The sound, of course, picked up audience reaction. It was very enjoyable, but now that I think of it, not very much laughter, and that,  a bit hesitant and uncertain. Of course Stephano's idea of getting rich by taking the 'monster' back to England and displaying him got  a hearty laugh.

For my choice of humor I would like to go back to the quote from John M. Bowers in Jude's post (131):

'Armed with books, Prospero colonizes his island, enslaves the population, and imposes his language upon the natives.'

That crazy old magician, with his magic cloak and books, does manage to attract a few spirits to the island, but for the real thing, Caliban is eager and willing to populate the island without any magic at all.

Ariel was a very charming little sprite, neither male nor female.

I like Professor Bloom's idea of Prospero showing what it means to be human, achieving power without signing his soul away. Thanks Marcie. Was The Tempest Shakespeare's answer to Marlowe's Faust?

A few years ago I spent a week, along with about two hundred others, as one of a jury selection pool. Very boring, waiting to be called. Most of us brought something to read. I remember one who was engrossed in the Harold Bloom book. And she loved to talk Shakespeare.

[Jonathan]

I've just checked my account and I see Marjorie Garber's SHAKESPEARE AFTER ALL is waiting for me at my neighborhood library branch. It was mentioned and recommended early in this discussion and I made a note of it. And then the other day I got an invitation to hear her address our FOL meeting later this month. I'm dying to ask her who she thinks is the hero of this play. She's a Professor of English at Harvard.