Women's Issues

[MaryPage]

I have truly tried to look at it from every possible angle: to put every fact and occurrence on the table in order to attempt to see it from another viewpoint, but for the life of me, I cannot see why there is any conflict between the attack on the diplomatic compound in Benghazi being a terrorist attack, or having been thought to have been a terrorist attack, and it being thought that the CAUSE was a video that Muslims took offense at.
I mean, there is usually a REASON for a particular terrorist attack.  There is a reason why they attack.  So where is the conflict between the first speculations that were voiced to the effect that it was likely to have  been the result of anger over that video and calling it a terrorist attack?  Please point out to me, so that it makes sense in this dense old head, where there is a conflict or a "lie" in the two statements.  Me, I just do not see a conflict there, or a lie, for that matter.  Why could it not have been a terrorist attack that was set off by a hated video?
As for being a feminist, I am one.  Have been one for years.  I am a woman, you see, and I do not believe in my lifetime there has been an equal chance for women in so many fields, or an equal fairness for women under our laws.  Yes, things have gotten better;  but they are not equal yet. And they should be.  But consider this:  when you condemn feminists or Feminism, you are making a generalization toward a group who share one core opinion but VOICE it in a myriad ways.  And that is just flat out not fair!  Any tried and true blue feminist, and the dictionary, will tell you that feminism means  believing in EQUAL rights of the sexes.  Period.  In other ways we differ as much as our personalities allow.  As much as the adherents of any belief or philosophy or political system or religion or tribe anywhere on this planet differ in the particulars and intensities of their belief.  So please don't shoot us all down with lurid accusations about our behavior!  I shudder, as I never have and never would, for instance, burn a bra.  Shucks, and seriously, I am not used to saying "bra" in public, as it is still, to my sensitivities, a private and intimate garment.  I have had, and adored, three worthy husbands, feminists all, and really like men, as long as they truly admire women and believe fiercely in their equality under the law.  I will rage like an animal whose young are threatened whenever and wherever I perceive that insidious masculine need to control.  I still believe in all sincerity that the ERA should be passed.

[bellamarie]

MaryPage,

I cannot see why there is any conflict between the attack on the diplomatic compound in Benghazi being a terrorist attack, or having been thought to have been a terrorist attack, and it being thought that the CAUSE was a video that Muslims took offense at.

First of all from the very night it happened this administration KNEW it was an organized terrorist attack on our American embassy, and did NOTHING.  We know this for a FACT because Hillary emailed her daughter, the Libyan leader and the prime minister saying it was a terrorist attack. They have her email as proof!  There was NO speculation, they KNEW it, and did not want to admit it because they had Ambassador Stevens over there making weapons deals with Saudi Arabia which were getting in the hands of jihadists, secondly our president had just made a statement that ISIS was contained and seen as a JV basketball team.  He was neck and neck with Mitt Romney in the 2012 election.  If Americans would have known they were lying about the video and knew it was a terrorist attack, then, he probably would not have been re elected.  He did NOT want the arms deals or the terrorist attack to damage his chances of being re elected so they concocted the story of the video.  There were cries for help and a "stand down" order was given, that is why the three special agents took it upon themselves to go try to save our Ambassador and the other Americans in the compound.  Again...if we would have sent the help needed it would have been known our embassy was under a terrorist attack just months before the election.  Too high a price for the president and SOS to take.

This is a sad day when the FBI Director Comey stands and gives a complete laundry list of the things Clinton is guilty of, and then says,

“Although there is evidence of potential violations, our judgement is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case,”

It was NOT his call to decide if a prosecutor would take the case, it was his job to report the findings.

“This is not to suggest that in similar circumstances a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences,” Comey added. “To the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions. But that is not what we are deciding now.”

It is no wonder that Americans have lost faith and trust in the justice system, congress, politicians and in our administration.  Bill Clinton sealed the deal when he met with DOJ Loretta Lynch, the fix was in, now we are hearing Hillary say she could appoint Lynch as the Attorney General.  I just hope the American people rise up against this gross misjustice at the polls in November.  Comey said it is likely that hostile actors have her classified emails.  This could make her weak and vulnerable if elected president, opening her up to blackmail.  I want to one day see a woman as president, but NOT Hillary Clinton. 

http://time.com/4393271/james-comey-fbi-hillary-clinton-email/

[ginny]

Great discussion, Everybody.

I guess even tho I had looked up the definition of "feminist" the reason I asked the question has sort of been revealed here in the answers, but I appreciate the attempts anyway.

Jean, good for you in interjecting women's rights into your classes, that's wonderful.

There are a lot of pioneering  women out there, too. I've got some in my family actually and I'm sure we all know some.

 I have to quibble a bit about some of  the examples, however. The woman whose husband wouldn't allow her to drive?  Abuse is abuse, it's not gender oriented is it? Would her knowing she had equal rights have made a difference in an abusive relationship?  Or maybe it's a more complicated problem which exists today actually.

As for the doctor's playing God, apparently she had no support and I'm sorry for her. Do you really think knowing that "women have equal rights"  would have made a difference?  Did she have no other recourse? Did nobody help her? How long ago was this? How do you know of her? Did the story have a happy ending? 

I like what you're doing to try to help restore rights and dignity to all people. I think that even today however, there are abusive relationships.... on both sides, actually, despite everybody's new consciousness. There's an article in the July 11 People Magazine about an abused male in a relationship, Michael Santoro.

Karen, I loved that post also. Beautifully said.

Mary Page: So please don't shoot us all down with lurid accusations about our behavior! 

Where do you see somebody "shooting you down with lurid accusations about [your] behavior"  here? 

when you condemn feminists or Feminism, you are making a generalization toward a group who share one core opinion but VOICE it in a myriad ways.  And that is just flat out not fair!

Who is "you" here? I don't see anybody condemning feminists or Feminism but hark! I see somebody doing the exact same thing to men...read on...

I will rage like an animal whose young are threatened whenever and wherever I perceive that insidious masculine need to control.

 I totally disagree with the second part of your statement.  Since when is the need to control "masculine?"  I don't see this characterization in any definition of feminism which you referred us to.

You want to watch a flock of chickens. I hate to introduce birdbrains into such an erudite discussion but in any flock of female hens, should a male be absent, one of the females will take on the dominant "insidious male controlling" role (it's called "pecking order.") Not only will this hen control the flock, this hen will do so with violence. She will mount the others as if having sex without the ability to do so,  and she will grab them by the neck more viciously than any rooster I ever saw, and twist.  This is not an isolated phenomenon, it's common.

Should food be thrown into the pen, the others won't go near it lest ol Control Freak attack them.

This is not the only animal or bird which exhibits controlling behavior. It's not something solely the provenance of the male in the animal or human kingdom, anthropology has proven that. And to say it is, I think, is very telling.

[BarbStAubrey]

There is a huge difference since the women's movement so that individual woman do receive different treatment because of the movement but I too remember when getting a driver's license was not agreed to by all husbands and I remember getting a ticket and the Judge making a big statement aloud in the court room about women should not be driving because this is the result.

As to Doctor's it was the same thing - even having a baby you had no say in how you were helped or in some cases if the baby was born with a problem the doctor and husband decided if it would live or die.

A woman could not get a loan on her own - could not have her own bank account unless she was wealthy and family attorney not only set it up but was listed on the account. If you were pregnant you had to leave your job before you were showing on and on it went till the 70s started some changes that grew over the next 10 to 15 years so that now we easily forget what it was like in the 50s and 60s and even most of the 70s for women.

Unfortunately the baby was thrown out with the bath water when women were degraded by other women because they chose to be homemakers - it started in the 70s when while shopping or in the street other women thought nothing of coming up to a mom wheeling a baby carriage and telling her what to do with the baby and worst the criticisms of how the baby was dressed or was sitting wrong or was sucking their thumb or a sucky or should be walking or home in bed not out so late - on and on - very respectful and supportive of a Mom I must say... that is sarcasm folks...

[ginny]

I don't have those same memories but I remember getting a drivers license in the 50's in the same South Jersey Jean was in. The world was a different place 60 years ago, not only for women, but for civil rights, too and a lot of other things. LOTS of other things.

I don't know what period of time we're talking about but thankfully I do know what it was to be working and pregnant in the '60s and '70's.

I do remember, however,  when women could not get a credit card in their own names and to this day the phone is in my husband's name because that's what I put it in when I, (notice I) signed up for it. Also the power bill.  To this day the social security number on some bills is mine.  ATT will not give me an Iphone in my own name, it's in his, with my social security number,   he doesn't even HAVE an iphone, and I have actually had to call him to the phone to tell them it was OK to talk to me. Yes. In 2016. Irritates him no end.  And I have explained this till I'm blue in the face to them to no avail. They understand but it stays the same.

So I guess the more some things change  the more they stay the same.

They are trying to protect HIM, they say...I guess instead of celebrating our 49th in a few months, he needs protection just in case I get  divorced,  instead,  and I feel the need to  what...hijack his /my phone?  hahahaa

Just kidding. It's not a feminist issue. It's keeping the name given them when the account was taken out ..well.... 49 years ago. We could be two men, same thing. (Of course 49 years ago 2 men would not be married, would they?) They might be together,  but not legally married.

[mogamom]

Counseling couples through a divorce has also changed, especially with 'no-fault' divorce.  I remember women applauding this change, but it does not seem to have helped their situation.  It was supposed to take the anger and vindictiveness out of the process - to 'stop the blaming', I guess.  In one case the husband owned a business and the wife was a teacher.  She confronted him and he admitted he was in an affair.  He filed for bankruptcy, went on aid from social services and was set up in an apartment.  A couple of months later she got a bill for all of the aid the county had extended him even though, as she argued, he could have remained in the house they both owned.  Social Services explained that he was an adult and they couldn't force him to return home and, since they were still married, she was responsible for his debts.  Sometimes 'progress' seems backward.

[bellamarie]

Ginny,   

and I have actually had to call him to the phone to tell them it was OK to talk to me. Yes. In 2016. Irritates him no end.  And I have explained this till I'm blue in the face to them to no avail. They understand but it stays the same.

I have had the same situation.  I pay all our bills, but if I call any company to dispute or inquire about the bill and it is in my husband's name they say they can not discuss it with me, I need to put him on the phone.  I do understand the reason for this, women and men going through a divorce have secretly withdrawn all the funds out of bank accounts, have ran up credit cards to the max, and have even cancelled credit cards, store accounts and utilities trying to get out of responsibility, or out of revenge to the spouse.  Companies have taken some serious losses due to this, and so now they have tried to protect themselves from this type of behavior.  The funny thing is, if a husband or wife knows their SS# and puts a woman or man on saying they are the wife/husband how on earth do the companies know for certain it is the person they asked to speak to?   One time I was so frustrated, I said I am my husband's name.  The person said, "You are Joe?"  I said, "Yes, I am."   

I fear in trying so hard to get equal rights the feminist have taken on a bit of an angry attitude as if they have to fight even women.  I will fight for my rights, but I don't feel I need to become masculine in doing it, or be a bully, or judge other women if they feel differently.  For me personally, I love being a woman and all it entails different from a man.  I like knowing there are things I can do because of my gender, and I also like knowing there are some things I can not do because of my gender.  I'm really happy and comfortable being a woman, a wife, a Mom, a sister, an aunt, and a girlfriend to my female friends.  I'm not a pushover, I'll take on tough jobs, and I'll stand up to any wrong I see, but I don't want women or anyone else to go so far in fighting, they take away the differences of genders.  Even transgenders want to acknowledge they are indeed one particular gender, even if it is not the one they were born and lived with.

Barb,   

Unfortunately the baby was thrown out with the bath water when women were degraded by other women because they chose to be homemakers -

You are so right about this.  I see feminists constantly judging and bullying women because they don't fall in line with their thinking.  My philosophy is, live and let live.

[Mkaren557]

I am with you on this one, Bellamarie.  Does anyone else feel patronized at a garage when either servicing or buying a car?  It has gotten  to the point that the last time I bought a car, I took a male friend Who repeated each time they tried to talk to him,  "You need to talk to her."When I first started teaching history,  I was ignored in all male meetings of history teachers, who mostly talked football.  Here is the one that really galls me. For years teachers, at least in Maine, have endured low pay because it is dominated field by women, who, the reasoning goes a really making a second paycheck and do not need to support their families.  As late as the Eighties I heard that as I negotiated the teachers contract for my district.
     I did work outside the home as my children grew up because for most of the time I was a single mom.  I was a teacher who worked days, nights, and "vacations," to prepare to teach world and us history to high school kids.  I researched , read, planned, attended workshops, and kept educating myself all the summers that I taught.  Most of the time I was working I felt guilty that I was not with my kids; when I was with my kids, I felt guilty that I was not at work. Frequently, I was told by other women how "easy" my job was, how terrible teachers are these days, and "Teaching is a nice little job for a woman."   

 

[BarbStAubrey]

https://iq.intel.com/how-hedy-lamarr-invented-early-wireless-technology/

[mabel1015j]

Mkaren - i too was a history teacher and still present a women's history series at the library. I'm not sure anyone who has not taught can understand how much preparation it takes, if you want to be a good teacher. Every category of academia is changing so fast that constant research is a necessity. And, especially in our field, there are all those exams to prepare and then grade. 

I liked your image of the history dept and all the football talk. I once got a job because the principal said everybody he had interviewed was a coach who thought he could teach history and he wanted a history teacher who might want to coach. Because all of those coaches were researching football plays they didn't have much time to do research in history. That's why many students don't like history, it is made so dull and boring for them.

Now I'm not knocking all coaches. One of the best principals I ever had had been a state champion basketball coach at the school and he gave six of us paid summer time to set up a team-taught humanities course based on my world cultures course. It was a fabulous course with the English teacher having the students reading literature FROM the time and culture; the music teacher provided info about the music, the art teacher did a segment on the art and architecture; an ex-priest did segments on philisophy and religion. What fun!!

Jean

[mogamom]

Your program sounds great!

We were involved in a Study Center that offered tutoring to homeschoolers that followed the Christian and Classical Model.  Here a chronological view of history forms the backbone of the program with literature, math, science and the other humanities as arms around it. Latin began in sixth grade and high school students were offered courses in rhetoric and logic as well.  It is a great way to learn history.  All of the homeschool families/groups I know use this model.

You get a very different view of history when you read the literature of the time.  I am still amazed at the courage of Dante who wrote his trilogy using the names of his contemporaries and who wrote in the common tongue, rather than Latin, so it was accessible to all.

[bellamarie]

MKaren, 

I was told by other women how "easy" my job was, how terrible teachers are these days, and "Teaching is a nice little job for a woman."

Grrr.... I get so upset knowing this attitude has existed forever.  I was the technology guru, and taught computers in the subjects of math, english, science and critical thinking along with the basic computer skills and keyboarding. I would use programs to prepare the eighth graders for their high school entry tests. I had grades K-8 in a Catholic elementary school.  Because I did not have a "teaching degree", I was always looked at as just the fun easy aide.  I began the technology program from bottom up, taught all the teachers, principal and students computer programs, and was selected through our Diocese to teach workshops for High School teachers who had never used computers before, at our local college, yet still I was looked at as an "aide."  My male principal actually treated me with more respect than the female teachers or principal. When he left and I had a female principal who did not even know how to turn on a power button on her computer, she proceeded to treat me with so little respect and dignity that I left at Christmas break, after teaching for fifteen years.   Women can really be harsh judging other women.

Jean and Mogamom, your programs sound like I would have enjoyed learning history, which I never did throughout my years in school.

[mogamom]

Just a follow-up on the two who were arrested in filming Planned Parenthood.  All charges were dropped; wonder if they will get an apology and/or if someone will sue for harassment, et al.?  Wonder how this will affect Panned Parenthood's federal suit?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/charges-dropped-against-anti-abortion-activists-for-texas-video-recording/ar-BBuTRQ8?li=BBnb4R7&ocid=DELLDHP

[mabel1015j]

I am thrilled to have lived to see a woman being a candidate for president. Doris Kearns Goodman said "there were 43 men as POTUS, now maybe there will be 43 women!" I don't think that will happen, we Americans tend to like to change the staus quo on a regular basis, but I have no doubt that there will be several more women running in all the POTUS primaries from now on. I doubt if I'll live to see another woman or person of color, but I'm grateful that I saw these "firsts".

Jean

[mabel1015j]

Mogomom - teaching rhetoric and logic sounds like such a good idea. I think every student should also have a civics course. Few people these days seem to understand how our govt works. When I taught in Pa in the 60s all sophmores got a semester of "Problems of Democracy". I always enjoyed teaching that course and when I taught US History 101 in college, I spent a lot of time on the writing of the constitution because I knew most of the students had never had even an introduction to the constitution.

Bellmarie - I am always amazed and saddened by the way some academics can be so snobby about who has what, if any, degrees. Yes, I think institutions need to be sure their instructors are qualified, but sometimes qualifications don't necessarily include degrees. Apparently the more prestigious the institutions the worse it can be. I've heard some horrendous stories about Harvard faculty and students. I have never taken a "women's history" course, part of that being that I'm so old that there were no women's history courses available when I was in college.  . I am totally self-taught in the subject, ala B Franklin, T Jefferson, etc! Lol

Jean

[mogamom]

mabel1015j - I was really dismayed to hear that the only high school subject our NY Regents Board decided did not require a regents exam was American History!  More than ever this is an essential course (or the Civics course that used to be taught) to fulfill the goal of having an educated electorate, I would think.  Science and Math are important too, but if we don't know the founding documents of our country and our Constitution, or if we don't know how to articulate our thoughts - our reasoning - how can we hope to be good citizens?  Of course, the push of globalists is that we should all give up our national constitutions.

[mabel1015j]

mabel1015j - I was really dismayed to hear that the only high school subject our NY Regents Board decided did not require a regents exam was American History!  More than ever this is an essential course (or the Civics course that used to be taught) to fulfill the goal of having an educated electorate, I would think.  Science and Math are important too, but if we don't know the founding documents of our country and our Constitution, or if we don't know how to articulate our thoughts - our reasoning - how can we hope to be good citizens? 

I totally agree.

[Judy Laird]

Mary Page I don't see your red posts much these days. Keep up the good work I enjoy your posts

[BarbStAubrey]

Please those who enjoy reading the writing of women before they were recognized as worthy - there is a book that I would love to read and the lest expensive is $80 - Amazon does not have a copy and the one on eBay is $113

The author is a young woman no longer with the university in Manchester and this site says you can ask her to upload a copy of the book - would you please consider requesting she do that - it is easy - just a bunch of clicks and register with your facebook account - the book is

Flesh and Spirit: An anthology of seventeenth-century women's writing (Texts in Culture) by Rachel Adcock

and here is the page where we can ask her to upload a PDF of the book - I went back to the beginning which is to click on the second book that takes you to a page that suggests you ask her and then you register and then one more page where you hit the button that automatically registers the request .

https://www.academia.edu/26903556/Flesh_and_Spirit_An_Anthology_of_Seventeenth-Century_Womens_Writing

[mogamom]

Phyllis Schlafly: What an accomplished woman!

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2016-09-05.html



(I read other accounts of her passing, but the one above seemed the most thorough, though with some editorializing to gloss over.)

[mabel1015j]

The irony of Schafley was that she was out on the stump (and going to law school and writing books, etc, etc) everyday telling women they should stay ay home with their children.

Here is another perspective on her. By the way, i think Coulter's column is a little too laudatory and the Nation column is a little too derisive.

https://www.thenation.com/article/what-phyllis-schlafly-might-have-been-if-it-werent-for-women-like-phyllis-schlafly/

Jean

[mogamom]

Ah, yes...I've read both sides.  Still, no one can refute her accomplishments.  Since she homeschooled her children perhaps they traveled with her?  What an education that would be! That is, after all, one of the great benefits of homeschooling - your children are not divorced from your life, but actually living it with you.

I'd have to read more of her books and material about her to figure out the chronology of it all; that is, how many/what ages children were at various points of her work, etc.

At least no one on thenation.com was celebrating her death, wishing it had been sooner, suggesting she should have been murdered, etc. as have been found in tweets through the more liberal sites.  She believed deeply in conservatism and engaged others in honest debate from a well-informed and knowledgeable position.  To make your choice of life, be influential in your world, show strength and grace under pressure/persecution, all without engaging in lies, ad hominem remarks, or returning reviling for reviling all seem to be the best of womankind to me.

[mogamom]

A great tribute to another great woman, Amelia Earhart!

http://www.popsci.com/newly-discovered-lunar-crater-named-after-amelia-earhart

[maryz]

BookTV is wonderful.  This is broadcast on CSpan2 on weekends.  It's devoted to nonfiction books and authors. Tonight it was sheer pleasure to listen to Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg talk.  This program was recorded on 14 September 2016.  She has a book coming out next month ("My Own Words"), but it was a wide-ranging talk with lots of questions and answers.  Such a delight (and I'm sure you could find it on line).

[mabel1015j]

I'll look for that Mary. She seems to feel perfectly comfortable giving her comments about her life and current events.

Jean

[mogamom]

From the Clinton campaign:

Clinton: Podesta emails re women:
http://www.mostdamagingwikileaks.com/

1. Clinton campaign refuses to report sexual harassment (then  forwards complaint to harasser)  https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/16137#efmAMpAQKAQMAR6AVzAYLAf_AhD

•“I was recently contacted by a source who claims to have worked on the 2008 Hillary Clinton campaign and is alleging that Marlon Marshall made unwelcome sexual advances and propositions towards women on the campaign repeatedly. The allegation is that he would "corner women, make them uncomfortable and make suggestions about having sex."
•“The source also claims that Robby Mook was made aware of the issue, but declined to act on it or intervene because he is personal friends with Marshall.”

2. Using female senator to conjure fake sexist claims against Bernie

3. Worried that Bernie supporters and younger women "hate her so  much (they) might even vote for a Republican"


I just don't see how anyone can believe that Clinton is a defender of women?  These represent 3 different sets of emails but all are archived on the link above.

[mabel1015j]

My problem with the hack of Podesta's email is that the discussions do not include Hillary and they are "how about if........" kind of discusions of how to proceed in the campaign. We've all been in those brain-storming kinds of sessions and would certainly not want to be held accountable for all the ideas that get thrown on the table.

If I have to coose between DT's attitudes about women and Hillary's??? No contest, she wins!

Jean

[BarbStAubrey]

Y'all need to know our Ella passed during the night - Annie called Ginny and posted the news in the Book Club discussion that Ella actually started and kept us going with her wonderful spirit till the last week or so. Prayers for Cindy, her daughter.

[mogamom]

I also offer condolences to the friends and family of Ella.  So sorry for their loss.

[mogamom]

If people are getting their information about the Podesta e-mails from: AP, Univision, Washington Post, NYT, Boston Globe (who acknowledged their bias), Politico, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, C-Span, Chris Cuomo, Jake Tapper, Donna Brazlle, John Harwood Facebook, Google (and maybe more; that's as far as I have looked), these have been implicated in the emails for their bias.

Of course, all women do not feel supported by Clinton:

http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/when-hillary-ignored-the-rape-of-an-american-journalist-in-egypt/

[jane]

If people are getting their information about the Podesta e-mails from: AP, Univision, Washington Post, NYT, Boston Globe (who acknowledged their bias), Politico, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, C-Span, Chris Cuomo, Jake Tapper, Donna Brazlle, John Harwood Facebook, Google (and maybe more; that's as far as I have looked), these have been implicated in the emails for their bias.

Of course, all women do not feel supported by Clinton:

http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/when-hillary-ignored-the-rape-of-an-american-journalist-in-egypt/

So, who is left that you think is unbiased?  Fox News, Limbaugh or ?

Is http://www.factcheck.org also biased?

[BarbStAubrey]

Jane from what my 'liberal' friends and I deduce, even though our politics is very different Mogamon is right - corporate media is no longer unbiased -

We have been turning to the Guardian - yes a British paper but their US news is not tainted nor is their world news - Democracy Now with Amy Goodwin - the Atlantic Monthly - the Young Turks is good but very pro Democrat and pro Hillary - but at least their news is often on the spot videos and reporters are bringing the entire story, only after do they explain it from their bias.

There is a lot to not like about Trump but he is blowing the cover off lots of secrets and pulling the rug out from under the establishment - he is another version of what Bernie was early on, as both slid back the curtain.

Yes, I was a Bernie follower and prefer what Chris Hedges and Chomsky have to say - here is a wonderful video of Chris Hedges on the Amy Goodwin show that says a lot about both parties and the media and is not even too friendly to Bernie - but he says it as many of the authors are writing today -

https://www.facebook.com/DeprogramYourself/videos/1662396017413339/

Books that I've been reading that say much of what Chris says using their words from their viewpoint.

The Party is Over by Mike Lofgren - He has another newer book that is this plus more...
By the People by Charles Murray -
Tower of Basel by Adam Lebor -
Shock Doctrine forget the author -
All the Presidents' Bankers by Nomi Prins -
The best Democracy Money Can buy by Greg Palast -
Dirty Wars by Jeremy Scahill -
The Shadow Party by Horowitz ---

What I want to read is - 
Web of Debt: The Shocking Truth about Our Money System and How We Can Break Free by Ellen Brown -
The American Deep State: Wall Street, Big Oil, and the Attack on U.S. Democracy by Peter Scott -
Unholy Trinity: The IMF, World Bank and WTO by Richard Peet -

I like the article about the ballet describing Chomsky - We need to educate ourselves to how folks can take advantage of the Democratic system and turn it into another system - the goals of the Constitution have been hijacked by the desire for individual profit

http://www.vice.com/read/i-went-to-a-noam-chomsky-ballet

[Robby]

I have just returned to Senior Learn after having been absent for approx. ten years.  Some of you may remember my name.  As I look at the various names I see many familiar ones, some of whom I met personally.  In Senior Net I was the discussion leader for Story of Civilization.  I have just retired from having been a clinical psychologist for the past 25 years.  In this period of time I forgot some of my electronic skills and am struggling to getting back to communicating properly.  Please be patient with me as I recover what I used to know and have forgotten.
Robby

[BarbStAubrey]

Hurray - thanks for posting with us again Robbie and welcome back - looking forward to your participation - has it really been 10 years? Golly that time flew by...

[mogamom]

As far as what - or who - to believe in the news, I do what I was taught to do (and which I encourage young people to do) which is to go as often as possible to original sources.  This is becoming increasingly difficult as the internet is becoming more censored, but there are still ways to navigate around it.  The sites BarbStAubrey gives are very helpful.

President Obama has courted Facebook and Google (Google even wanted to run Hillary's campaign) and has hired journalists from major media outlets, like the NYT.  That should make everyone's ears prick up.  That, coupled with the piece on David Brock having forged media alliances whom he could contact with 'talking points' on any subject and have them all go with the story - and the fact that the Fed govt has spent 1.5 billion dollars on PR (aka propaganda) - should alert even the most inattentive person to the dangers.  When the whole troop of established media outlets gives the same story exactly the same way - even using the same phrases to describe it - there has to be a common source, wouldn't you think?

When Hillary Clinton is elected (I agree with Assange that the powers that be will not allow her to lose - see link below, for instance - after all, as we used to say, she knows where all the bodies/dirt are buried)  she has already been an adamant advocate of getting rid of conservative radio with FCC regulations, regulating (aka, censoring) the internet, and punishing contrary speech.  Already, places like the NYT have announced that they will not accept or publish any stories that question the 'fact' of climate change; Norton on my computer will refuse to open sites it deems as 'hate'; and attempting to understand a muslim group mentioned in an article I went to their site to see if they actually state what they were purported as believing/stating, and a message flashed on the screen that my opening that site was reported to a govt agency.  All in the name of security.  I'm almost ready to agree with those that tell me the Left is using radical Islam (and thus the need for security) to impose censorship and control speech/thought.

I just think it is enormously interesting that the very people who marched against the Establishment in the '60's - and vehemently defended free speech, viciously attacking any attempt at censorship even in public schools with minors- is now on the side of strict censorship of certain political/religious/cultural views/beliefs/traditions.

You bring up Limbaugh - and I know he is viewed  with disdain on this site (as I assume other conservative groups are) but - like him or not - he has actually discerned what is happening before our very eyes, even as the more 'acceptable' media refuses to recognize it, or find that it does not suit their agenda to point it out.  So, yes, I do listen to conservative - and liberal - talk shows when I can.  We were taught to look at it ALL with a grain of salt, with a healthy skepticism.

I do also go to the British outlets.  The trick is to read -and listen - between the lines; note names that keep cropping up together and explore where they came from and how they know each other; in other words, become a news sleuth.  Another thing I pay attention to is what terms the Left brands the Right with, then wait.  Soon you find them engaged in that behavior themselves.  People are tired of the hypocrisy on both sides.  As soon as someone thinks lying is fine for their cause, the game is up.

I always used to admire how liberals came together under pressure and took care of one another.  Now I'm starting to think that this is just a form of mutual protection as they are all guilty together.  Kind of a take on: we must all hang together or we wil surely hang separately?

https://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2016/11/07/leaked-documents-reveal-expansive-soros-funding-to-manipulate-federal-elections/

[maryz]

Gwen Ifill (1955-2016)

What a loss to the world of honest journalism!

[BarbStAubrey]

Yes, it has been forever that I actually had to cry at the loss of a national figure - it may have been Kennedy - I was so thankful they devoted that much time to waking her on the NewsHour this evening.

[jane]

I, too, was shocked to read Gwen had died of cancer at 61.  She was such a great journalist.  She'll sure be missed by us on the News Hour and Washington Week.

The tributes tonight were wonderful.

[Robby]

Would Trump's comments about women be considered a "women's issue?"

[BarbStAubrey]

Oh Robby - it could be but to me it is a political issue - nothing new, we know how woman have been labeled and talked about and it never stopped - at least now it is out in the open and not inferred by those who share a similar opinion.

I am just tired of hearing about how wounded folks feel over this election - I just want to turn the page and learn as much as I can about Trump and watch what is going on by both parties since they both have to rebuild - and realize like kids in the 3rd grade that did not get multiplication - they hid it till algebra - that is how I see the nasty talk made public - it was simply hid since most of us got it - now we have to go back and use different teaching methods to change the hearts and minds of those who did not get it 20 or more years ago.

Sure does not feel uplifting that these pages were about - helping us take pride in our gender - however it appears we all will be engaged in a do-over.