Travels with Herodotus by Ryszard Kapuscinski

[JoanP]

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Travels with Herodotus
Ryszard Kapuscinski

"We struggle against time, against the fragility of memory … If we don’t write down what we learn and experience, that which we carry within will perish when we die." Ryszard Kapuscinski Part autobiography, part literary criticism and part meditation, Travels with Herodotus tells the story of two intertwined journeys: the author's literal voyages across the globe, and his pursuit of Herodotus, the Greek historiographer who reported from foreign lands in the fifth century BC.  And Kapuscinski brings Herodotus to life, showing again just what a superlative writer he is. He lived and worked at the juncture of two epochs: the era of written history was beginning, but the oral tradition still predominated.        Sara Wheeler  The Guardian

                                                                                                                             

Discussion Schedule: Jan. 4-12     Crossing the Border up to Memory Along the Roadways of the World Jan. 13-17     Memory Along the Roadways of the World up to Among Dead Kings Jan. 18-24    Among Dead Kings up to Time Vanishes          Jan. 25-31   Time Vanishes to end of last chapter, We Stand in Darkness

For Your Consideration
January 4-12

1. "--what was important was not the destination ... but the almost mystical and transcendant act of crossing the border." What kind of borders other than physical will the author have to cross as he travels into other countries?

2. Why Herodotus as a companion? Do you think he will be a good one?

3. The author wonders how Herodotus' temptation to know the world was born? Do you have that temptation? Can you tell how it was born? Why do some people have it and others not?

4. He sees language as a wall preventing him from going further. Have you had that feeling?

5. Later, he sees the great Wall of China as a symbol. Of what? How many walls can you find in this book?

6. "Identity here (in India)  is determined by the language spoken." How does speaking English affect our identity? Would we be the same people if we spoke a different language?

7. Here we experience life in two Communist countries (Poland and China). How are they alike? Different?

8. How do Chinese and Indian thought differ, according to Kapuscinski? What do you think: if you've read about Eastern thought, do you agree with him? Do you agree with his approach to learning?   


Discussion Leaders: JoanK , JoanP, Barbara  

[Babi]

 I am enjoying Kapuscinscki's descriptive language. So, yes, I think his talent could likely be seen in his early writings.  His first 'bird's-eye view'  from his first time on a plane reminds me of my own 'first'...after I got over the certainty that the plane was going to crash simply because I was on it. Never had that problem again, I'm happy to say.  Spent much of the trip just gazing out the window.
 
    "Kapus" early communist indoctrination still clings.  He is indignant at the idea of using the services of porters and rickshaw men.  That would make him an exploiter!  A bloodsucker!  I wonder how long it took him to realize that these people desperately needed the few coins that could feed them and their family for the day.

   The fascinating things I am learning about India from this period.  Everyone used the trains, and even the wealthy and the foreigners traveled with their own bedding. There were no seats. Everyone arranged their own little area in which to sleep, eat, etc. for the length of the trip.  Kapus, of course, had made no such arrangements. I can't help wondering what arrangements were made for a, er,  washroom?

[rich7]

JoanP,  I think he had a job in a real newspaper (As real as a newspaper can be in a Communist country.)  He said that he finished his studies and got employment with a newspaper "The Banner of Youth."

His editor certainly liked him, giving him the plum India assignment, while, at the same meeting, presenting him with his own copy of Herodotus.  He had a guardian angel somewhere at the newspaper; someone who liked him...That trip, through Rome, to India cost a great deal of money.  The trip to China via Amsterdam and Tokyo also had to be a great financial burden to a small newspaper in post-war Poland.  This was in a time (which he stated in his own words) that very few people traveled.

He was told by the paper's secretary (I'm a little confused by the use of the word "secretary." Secretary sometimes has a different meaning in European countries, like the head of the UN is Secretary-General.) that he was going to China.  The secretary was "nervous and agitated."  Why nervous and agitated?

Rich  

[JoanK]

"but I felt like there was a wall between me and the people."

I felt that when I lived in Israel. I worked very hard to learn the language, but still felt it as a barrier. I would pass one level: I could ask for things in shops and exchange pleasantries. then there would be another -- having a friendship across language barriers. then another: limits on what you could understand of your frend. I suspect there is no end to the "walls".

[JoanK]

Kapus probably knew Polish and Russian. Now we know he speaks English. It is common for people in other parts of the world to be fluent in more than one language (ask our Bubble sometime how many languages she speaks!) It is us Yanks who grow up knowing only one language.

Did anyone wonder how far his approach of trying to understand the people by reading books rather than by talking to people would take him?

[ginny]

Rich, is that YOU? After all these years? How wonderful to see you again!!

I'm not in this discussion but I look forward to reading your comments, they are bound to be fantastic!

Welcome back!

[rich7]

Hi Ginny,

Good to see you, too.  Yes, it's been a long time, but I needed time to recover after we finished that ponderous Rembrandt book.

Got to go now, the Minnesota/Green Bay playoff game is about to begin, and I've got a reserved seat right in my living room.

Thanks for the warm welcome.

Rich

[Ella Gibbons]

Walls.  It's amazing to me how Kapus travels from city to city in India (I haven't got to the China chapters yet) without worry about money.  How does he know how much things cost, where  and what does he eat, never gets sick.  Does he correspond to his newspaper back home - by telegram, telephone?  Letter?  Does he have a family back home?

We are not to know these small details in Kapus' travels, but it would make the book more real to me.  Money was a wall for me, I would think I had it straight but for lack of time I finallly would just extend my hand with coins or paper in it and hope I was dealing with honest people.  I think I was very lucky.

"Planes often carrying but a few passengers.  .......  Passengers .... stretched out across several seats."

What language was the book THE HISTORIES in?  Kapus mentions that the book was translated by a Seweryn Hammer, but we are not told into what language.  Obviously a language that Kapus could read.

[Ella Gibbons]

JOANP, that's a terrible sight your sister witnessed on her trip through India.   And the victim died on the bus after being struck, horrible.

What a different story Kapus tells of his bus inching its way through crowds of people laying on the roads moving aside, in "ardent compliance, in their submissive humility."

[BarbStAubrey]

From an article in the London Book Review by Neal Ascherson - he reviews a book that tells us how he afforded travel and how he got his money - or at least what this journalist knew about how he got his money.

I first heard of him from Western journalists covering Africa. They liked him. He was exotic – from behind the Curtain – but gutsy and funny. Working for PAP, the Polish news agency, he was permanently broke, but the hack mob adopted him, pushing him on board their chartered planes or blagging him past border officials startled by a Polish passport. A Commie? A few Americans watched their tongues when he was around. The rest, if they thought about it, imagined ‘Richard’ probably had to sign some nasty piece of paper in order to get out of Poland: so bloody what?

After reading Domosławski’s compelling, exhaustive and often upsetting book, their easy tolerance – like mine – begins to look different. In the first place, it was patronising. Were all Poles so cynically light-hearted? Looking back, more than twenty years after the system fell apart, it seems more likely that my friends’ contacts with the ‘Services’ were often humiliating and occasionally terrifying, in ways they preferred not to admit. Second, it turns out that ‘paying a price’ was not the case with Kapuściński. True, if he had not agreed to do intelligence work on the side, he would not have been allowed to travel abroad; there would be no The Emperor, no Shah of Shahs or The Soccer War. But in fact he was a willing collaborator. His intelligence file, opened after his death in 2007, showed that he contributed almost nothing of value, constantly pleading that he was too busy reporting to spy. But in Latin America, for example, he provided several profiles and details of figures thought to be working for the CIA. He did this because at that point in his life – the late 1960s – he was still a damaged but loyal member of the Communist Party. He was aware that Polish Communism was turning into a corrupt shambles, but he still believed – passionately, and romantically – that there was a world-struggle going on between imperialism and the working people of the poor southern continents. There was no middle ground. To miss a chance to strike against the oppressors was to take their side.

His file does not apparently show that he informed on friends or colleagues. There’s one case in which he passed on a conversation with a Polish exile, a woman who had just been forced out of the country by the anti-semitic purges of 1968. Even this is ambiguous: she may have meant him to pass on her scathing comments about several Party figures, and he may even have agreed with her. But Domosławski is right to feel that Kapuściński was violating the moral and professional border of journalism. It’s precisely because journalism and espionage have a superficial resemblance that they don’t mix. Telling an ambassador what you have seen or heard can be harmless: writing target profiles for an intelligence service is another thing altogether, and it poisons a journalist’s soul.

[Jonathan]

Hi Everybody. Hope you all had an enjoyable, festive season. Any of that gateau du roi left? Did I get that right? And who got the coin?

Who is this Kapuscinski? I had never heard of him until I happened to see his book TRAVELS WITH HERODOTUS, and thought it might get me to me to read the Herodotus I've had around forever. Now I'm reading the question in your posts: Why doesn't he tell us something about himself. Perhaps he doesn't want to talk about himself, following Herodotus' example. But there may be much more to it than that. Wikipedia has an interesting summary of his career and his achievments, and his many prizes. Some felt he deserved a Nobel. And then there are reports of Kap's (as he was called by some) other services to the pary. You're right, Rich. The secretary served in that capacity for the Central Committee. A short quote from  the Wiki link caught my imagination:

'n 1962 Kapuściński joined the Polish press agency, the PAP, and after honing his skills on domestic stories was appointed "its only foreign correspondent, and for the next ten years he was 'responsible' for fifty countries."[18][19] (Although a correspondent of an official state press agency, he never in his life asked a single question at any press conference that he attended.[17]) When he finally returned to Poland, he had lived through twenty-seven revolutions and coups, been jailed 40 times and survived four death sentences.'

But it seems that more than any routine news reporting responsibilities, Kap had lifelong literary ambitions and considered his style as magical journalism. Let's keep it in mind, and watch for the magic, the metaphor, and, since Kap was a dedicated communist, beware the doublespeak.

[Jonathan]

Thanks, Barbara. It gets curiouser and curiouser. What's this storyteller up to? Let's follow him around. Let's cross a few borders with him.We all, he says, have walls around ourselves.

[Jonathan]

V. S. Naipaul, writing about India in his book An Area Of Darkness, must have got it right for many. Kap tells us about the ritual that many Hindus made of watching the sun rise.

[Frybabe]

Ella, your comment about Seweryn Hammer put me into search mode. I only looked briefly, so all I found was Wikipedia's article in Polish. I don't read Polish, but I did gather from it that, not unsurprisingly, he was a professor, he died in 1955, and that his Histories translation was first published in 1954.

Barb, thanks for the article quote. I am mildly surprised that he was a dedicated communist after reading his description of his time in China. He tried to be noncommittal about it, but I got the impression that he didn't like having Li constantly by his side and that he could not close the door to his room so that his "guide" could watch his every move. Could it be that he used his "obligation" to spy as a means to "cross the border", travel and write about it? How good of a reporter was he if he never asked questions? If he didn't pass on useful information the to Communist Party, than why did they keep asking him to spy?

So far, Kapuscinski appears to feel inadequate and insecure about his assignments, but he preservers and puts up a brave front. There was something else in first section I wanted to comment on, but the last few posts interested me enough that I forgot what it was. Sigh! Maybe I'll think of it later.

[JoanP]

Fry - from reading the recent posts, I'm beginning to sense the operative words here are that  "Kapuscinski appears to feel inadequate and insecure"...

It's striking, isn't it, that he's writing a book which attempts to illuminate the personality of a man from his work - Herodotus from his Histories...and yet as Ella says, reveals so few details of his own life.  Would you say Travels w. Herodotus is autobiographical non-fiction? If not, how would you describe it?

"He was exotic, gutsy and funny." Quite a revealing article, Barb.
In fact, he's secretive, while appearing so naive and open,  he seems to fit the description of a spy, doesn't he?

[JoanP]

Jonathan, I lke your description of his style as "magical journalism."  His work takes on that quality from the start, doesn't it?
- the stranger, the Italian whose wife takes him clothes shopping in Rome. How are they communicating? Do you see a language "wall" between them?

- and then, all those poor Indians, begging for his attention - he ignores them, and yet follows an unidentified man who beckons to him - who takes him to a strange hotel.  how are they communicating?
I'm beginning to think the author is purposely omitting these details.

Jonathan, TODAY is Kings Day - we haven't even baked the cake yet.  You are welcome to join us to cut it evening!

[rich7]

BarbStAubrey, and Jonathan, your research has added a whole new dimension to the book.  It gives us a possible way to understand his financial backing and amazing string of good luck during his travels.

I thought it was strange that when he found himself alone and confused in an Indian airport, a stranger suddenly appeared, found a hotel for him, drove him there, and disappeared before he could be compensated for his trouble. Later, when he found himself alone, late at night, in an empty Kabul airport being held up for lack of a visa, another stranger materialized, cleared the whole matter up for him in a breeze and took him home for the night.

Kapus certainly did have a guardian angel looking out for him.  The KGB?

Rich

  

[rich7]

JoanP, Thanks for reminding me.   I had forgotten about the stranger and his wife in Rome who took him shopping for clothes.

More guardian angels.

Rich

[PatH]

Barb and Jonathan, you have indeed added a new dimension to the book.  It explains some things, too, such as how he never came to grief over practical matters and why he ended up as the guest of a rajah.  We can't expect him to be very straightforward about his practical arrangements or mission.  But what the book seems to be is a description of his internal journey, a journey of ideas and perceptions, and he is probably being pretty truthful about that.

[Babi]

 Good question, RICH. Maybe the secretary was nervous and agitated because it was such a big step to take in a what was a very recent easing of travel restrictions.
No one was quite sure which direction the new government was going to take.

 I would do the same, JOANK. Getting in some background would at least give me
a base of reference. And give me some idea of what to expect,...and what to wear!
And he did try to talk to people as he gained a small vocabulary.

 BARB, I gather that article is referring to Neal Acherson, and not to Kapus. It
does state "Neal Ascherson - he reviews a book that tells us how he afforded travel
and how he got his money .."

     I was aware that the people of India were stratified in a caste system and children pursued the same trade as their parents, though I assume there must have been exceptions.  RK makes a point that had not really struck me before.  "I had noticed already that a diferent person is assigned here to every type of activity and chore, and that this person vigilantly guards his role and his place - this society's equilibrium seems to depend upon it."

[PatH]

The caste system leads into something RK says that feels very true to me:

India is all about infinity--an infinity of gods and myths, beliefs and languages, races and cultures; in everything, and everywhere one looks, there is this dizzying endlessness.

[JoanK]

WOW1 Simple me never thought to wonder about Kapus. So he is telling us what he wants us to know and no more.

he seems to clearly see what's wrong under communism, yet still be loyal to it. Well, it gave him, a poor country boy, an education and opportunities that he never would have had otherwise. Even in China, which he hates, he points out that the Chinese who look so regemented and sorry under Communism, would have starved under the earlier regime.

[JoanK]

I've been reading a series of detective stories about communist China. The author, who left china after Tenemin Square, Makes the point that the Chinese now have no moral code to guide them. They grew up with communist values in a country which has become capitalist. This leaves them nothing to hold onto except greed.

[Jonathan]

They can always, and probably will, fall back on Confucius. I can already hear it: Confucius say.... Mao's hundred flowers look wilted, and the country seems to have left them behind, on its march to world hegemony.

[Jonathan]

And our author has only scorn for that great Wall of China.

[BarbStAubrey]

The book under review was written by Neal about Puss - a biography of sorts.

Yes Pat, that is the viewpoint I felt reading the book - his internal journey, a journey of ideas and perceptions, and he is probably being pretty truthful about that.

This book, with lots of references to Herodotus, reminds me of other Greek thinking like some of the themes in Plato's Republic - turning cold politics into family warmth - the argument over the individual versus mass society - Puss seems to me to be taking what was current history and rather than be bound to the cave he is retelling it. Instead of using the Journalists conventional way of reporting events with maybe an editorial viewpoint, Puss is aligning the events to a storyline that is natural with smaller human examples rather than, the large codified events.  

I have not read past the first chapter in The Histories to know if Herodotus is in Plato's camp of thinking or Socrates. So far Herodotus' shows both viewpoints of, 'its all the fault of the men' versus, 'its all the fault of the women' explaining the rational for war. I am not picking up that Puss has a disdain for women similar to Socrates. Who knows - with all his reading we do not know the other books he read or studied in University - he did not sound as if he never heard of Herodotus when he received the book so maybe, he also read the Republic or he was simply from that viewpoint of thinking.

[Babi]

 I was struck by that passage, too, PAT.  I gather Kapus is speaking of his own troubles
in learning about India when he wrote this. Perhaps it would by more useful not try to pursue all this infinite information. Isn't what he really needs to know is what is making the news?

  Were you surprised, JOANK, when Kapus unpacked his books in China, that he had one titled "What's Wrong With China". Considering what a tight rein they were keeping on him, I'm amazed that book hadn't been seized the first time he left the room. I trust the Chinese
correspondent to Poland would receive much better treatment.
  I smiled to see these two items in the world news this morning. "Fight Against Chinese Journalism Censorship Escalates." and "Reports: China To End Forced Labor Camp System." It does seem the demands of capitalism are pulling down some of the restrictions of Communism.  

  Still, I love the small personal contacts he includes. The guard who stayed with
him, built a fire, and loaned him his coat. The trembling old man who was returning
home after years in the gulags. These are heartwarming.

[rich7]

True, he did not like the great wall.  I have not seen it treated so negatively in travel literature, even by the cynical Paul Theroux.

I guess Kapus is also not a great fan of Robert Frost: "Good Fences make good neighbors."

Rich

[BarbStAubrey]

For the life of me I cannot find the exact quote - but there was a quote popular at one time something about be careful what you wall in and what you wall out - the closest I could find was “Sometimes you put walls up not to keep people out, but to see who cares enough to break them down.”

I am still caught with the image of a father and son starting each day with prayers from the Upanishads - I purchased a copy and could not make heads or tails out of the first pages - after reading some about Hindu I'm getting a glimpse of what this is all about.

One of the prayers, so simple and yet profound in the Chandogya Upanishad - Twelfth Khanda - Space, assuredly, is more than heat. In Space, verily, are both sun and moon, lightening, stars and fire, Through space one calls out; through Space one hears; through Space one answers. In Space one enjoys himself; in Space one does not enjoy himself. In Space one is born; into Space one is born. Reverence Space.

There are prayers to water, earth on and on - revering what is around us and basic to life and yet the Fourth Brahmana gives an Adam's rib type story for the explanation of woman created - He desired a second and he splits in two and she is like a half-fragment therefore this space is filled by a wife.  And so he may be half but only a half-fragment - trying to come to terms with what we observe is the treatment and expectations of women as compared to all this beautiful reference suggesting reverence. But then we hear India and our mind goes there where as, this is not attitudes that Puss reported - wonder if it is an example of him re-arranging the cave.

[Jonathan]

Barbara, you may be on to something with your researches supplying references to space and caves. Kapus also sees the contradictions in India, with plenty of empty spaces and millions huddled together in the greatest congestion. What a scene. It appears that even ten years after the partition of the Raj millions are still homeless and destitute.

Doesn't the author's astonishment become apparent as he contrasts India and China? Ancient peoples with a long history. Long endeavour to achieve an organized society. Interesting motivators. Gods in the case of India. Philosophy in China. So far we are being spared a Marxist explantion. It would seem that Kapus might have been an agent of The Party as well as a working journalist. One often heard during the Cold War that their journalists also served in other capacities. My guess is that the author of this book turned out to be a reluctant Cold Warrior, not happy with quick fixes.

[Ella Gibbons]

Not knowing much about China's history before WWII, I was interested in the Long March which brought Mao Tse-tung to power; accordinglly I skimmed a long article in Wikipedia.  There is controversy over the facts as stated by Chairman Mao and an author or two, but what a march it must have been.  A few examples:

"The Red Army had to cross mountains and rivers, often capturing river crossings heavily defended by hostile warlords and Nationalist troops, the most famous of which was Luding Bridge."

A lovely picture of this Luding Bridge:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Luding_bridge.jpg

"less than 7,000 were among the original 100,000 soldiers who had started the march. A variety of factors contributed to the losses including fatigue, hunger and cold, sickness, desertion, and military casualties. During the retreat, membership in the party fell from 300,000 to around 40,000."

[JoanK]

OMG! Imagine having to defend that bridge. I couldn't even cross it.

I like the praise of space. it's something we take for granted (except on a NY subway!). but it makes sense in a society where everyone is crowded together that space would be precious.

Kupus sees the Wall as a symbol of the immense effort humans can put into doing the wrong thing. I guess you could say the same of the pyramids. What do you all think?

[Babi]

 interesting thought, JOANK.  Actually, the walls were meant for defense, even if they
went overboard building walls everywhere.  The pyramids, on the other hand, were simply
magnificent tombs for large egos, imho. One has to appreciate the skill that went into
building them, but like the China Wall, that was an enormous use (waste?) of human labor
and life.

 "The world of Hinduism is so that it has space enough for everyone and
everything for mutual acceptance, tolerance, harmony and unity." I remember when I studied comparative languages in college I was impressed by the fact that Hinduism's four-fold approach to divinity included a 'path of love', and Christianity was seen as being on that path.
   About this stage of the 'adventure', Kapus has 'taken a fancy' to Herodotus, and is grateful to him. It seems Herodotus was a comfort when he was confused and uncertain, which I gather was fairly often. He says Herodotus seemed to be "kindly disposed toward others" , 'curious', and someone who always had many questions'.  I imagine Kapus felt this was a man much like himself.

  I know Herodotus got to Persia; I don't think he ever went to Asia. I wonder how the
Chinese would have struck him?  That, of course, would be pure speculation.
  

[JoanP]

 You and I are on the same wave length this morning, Babi. I always thought of the pyramid builders as forced labor.  Were the wall builders in that same category?  Or did they feel they were performing an important service, protecting their people?

 As I read through yesterday's posts, it seems that Kapus himself and his adventures in India and China have captured the reader's attention.  I wondered if that's what he intended? Do you think this is because of SeniorLearn's readers' curious minds?  Or do other readers find his personal experience this much of an attention-grabber? Maybe this is K's way of introducing Herodotus?   It seems that when K. is frustrated by the language and cultural barriers,  at a loss...looking for something to do, he turns to the Histories - for guidance.  

Why do you think Li took Kapus to the Great Wall?  It seems to me he's been assigned to give K something to do - to keep him occupied, to distract him.  Obviously he wants to keep him from any real information that might be of use to the "West."  He was probably expecting Kapus to be impressed with the Wall.  If K. could have communicated with him, Li would have been surprised to learn of K's reaction  to it -  "A horrifying mistake."  "Energy wasted."

The Wall is a metaphor, he writes repeatedly.  Walls are always the same metaphor, aren't they?  Built to separate people..  Kapus is finding this wall most striking in China.  What of Herodotus' wall?

I've been reading the introductory chapters to Herodotus' Histories.  Kapus will probably go into it in later chapters of his book, but Kapus is finding what Herodotus concluded, that the world is divided into the West (The Greeks) and the East (The Persians), good and evil.  Herodotus is set on finding the reasons for these hostilities.  

Herodotus and Kapuscinski seem to be on the same wave length - seeking the same answers.

[rich7]

Joan K.  You guessed earlier that the walls he was talking about were not just physical but the barriers of language.  Looks like you were right.  At the beginning of the chapter on Chinese Thought, he says "I constantly felt the presence of the Great Wall; not the one I had seen several days ago in the mountains to the north, but the much more formidable and insurmountable one for me-the Great wall of Language."

Some time ago, Lake Wobegone writer and Prairie Home Companion host Garrison Keiler left his wife to marry a Danish beauty.  He even moved to Denmark to live with her.  The marriage did not work out (What a surprise!), and he moved back to America.  The principal reason he gave was his inability to communicate with her and others because of the language barrier.  They could communicate on a superficial level, but his stock and trade had been WORDS, especially the subtleties, and nuances of words, the double entendres, and shadings of grey you can achieve with words.  With just a primitive knowledge of Danish vocabulary, all that was lost to him.  It was enough to destroy a marriage.

That's what he said.  She said the marriage failed because he had started an an affair with another woman.  Take your pick.

Rich

[JoanP]

Gee, Rich, I had thought (hoped) you were going to say that his American wife had taken him back.

[Frybabe]

Years ago, I tried to read one of his books - Lake Wobegon Days, I think. Anyhow, only got into it a few pages before I decided that I couldn't read the book like he spoke it on air (it was similarly formatted). For me, the way he communicated on air just didn't work for me in print.

[BarbStAubrey]

I cannot stop wondering if we are all behind a wall - not only the wall of language but the wall of understanding each other as we use our personal values and apply them to every person and situation - our personal life experience often determines our viewpoint, our values and we share in common only some life experiences.

Another interesting phenomenon that we all do - we share often or maybe it is that we judge the good, bad, uncomfortable, delightful based on hearing and reading about events and places as compared to being there and seeing and hearing for ourselves - it is as if we are going through two walls and taking as our own an understanding that we conclude as good or bad, uncomfortable, delightful like shadows on the wall created by those who saw and heard and shared. Yep, Plato's cave - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave

And so I look at the layers and wonder if Kapuscinski is seeing in his travels the viewpoint outlined by Herodotus - is he altering those viewpoints based on his life experiences/values - he must be altering some of his opinions based on the wall of not understanding the language - and as readers, are we seeing the locations of his travels through his eyes, or are the eyes of movies, news stories, friends eyes, all shadows of reality in competition with Kapuscinski since our earlier exposure we have adapted as truth.

I am thinking of the experience reading the Upanishads for some first hand understanding and yet, I still do not have any understanding of the Upanishads much less Hinduism - Oh I have read more and more to try and dope it out but again, I am reading others interpretations and so all I could do was see the prayers from my own delight or what I saw as good since prayer as I understand it is about good - I have no idea how someone who practices Hinduism in India compares the prayers to his life or the life pulsing around him. Is that why we engage in conversation to penetrate our walls where as some protect themselves with such thick walls they are not curious to what is on the otherside but appear to only want to convert you to include you inside their walls -

Well as JoanK suggested this read seems to encourage inner travel as much as any diary of sorts about outer travel.

[JoanK]

Here is Pllato's allegory of the cave from the Wiki site Barbara posted:

"Plato lets Socrates describe a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall by things passing in front of a fire behind them, and begin to ascribe forms to these shadows. According to Plato's Socrates, the shadows are as close as the prisoners get to viewing reality. He then explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall do not make up reality at all, as he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the mere shadows seen by the prisoners."

[Ella Gibbons]

Rich's story of Keillor is understandable, I think, and K has this to say:

"I also realized that these civilizations are so enormous, so rich, complex, and varied, that getting to know even a fragment of one of them, a mere scrap, would require devoting one's whole life to the enterprise.  Cultures are edifices with countless rooms, corridors, balcomies, and attics, all arranged, furthermore, into such twisting, turning labyrinths, that if you enter one of them, there is no exit, no retreat, no turning back."

Fortunately for our interests  K is still tempted to cross borders, looking at what is beyond.

All of us have been tempted and our desires met sometimes, even though our borders may not be physical.  Life holds many challenges.

Herodotus states that a journey is really never over, because the film of memory continues running on inside of us long after we have come to a physical standstill.  Exactly.