Curious Minds ~ Sugar and High Fructose Corn Syrup--Are they poisons?

[BooksAdmin]

Curious Minds
A two week forum for conversation on ideas and criticism found in print - in magazines, journals and reviews

The topic for the next two weeks:
   Sugar and High Fructose Corn Syrup--Are they poisons?

Relevant Links and Articles

Sugar-The Bitter Truth Video  A college class is offered by an expert!

Recommended daily sugar intake?  "Are there really limits to our sugar intake?"

Media And Food Fears

Myths About HFCS"Well, who is right?  We are getting all kinds of opinions!"

High Fructose Not As Bad? "This is only the opinion of James Krieger, MS,   but  he was hired by the Corn Refiners' Association to give it."

Rename HFCS?

Is Sugar Worse Than Tobacco?

Soft Drinks May Raise or Risk Depression

Discussion Leader:  AdoAnnie

[ANNIE]

"Curious Minds"  returns!  We have decided to discuss the problems with sugar and High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS).  Seems that different "experts" have diverse opinions.  Some were hired to give their opinions and one is giving a college class on the topic.  Hmmmmm?
We will also be  looking at the substitutes.  Are there safe ones?
Should we avoid some and why?
 
Hope to see you all starting on Thursday, Jan 17th.

[pedln]

Adoannie, I'm glad Curious Minds is back, and I think the subject of sugar is an important one.  This past summer I was diagnosed with elevated blood sugar, which scared the heck out of me, but turned out to be a good wake-up call. The numbers are back where they should be and  now I'm trying to keep the 30 lbs I lost, off.

Remember the old saying, the old ad -- "Orange juice from Florida; it isn't just for breakfast any more."  I think we were all really duped about the benefits of fruit juice, which has a high concentration of sugar.  Not only that, but a lot of it has had all the pulp and fiber removed, so we don't even get the benefits of that.  I don't touch it any more.  One of the articles above (I've been browsing) makes some reference to fiber and how it cuts the concentration of sugar.

[ANNIE]

Good morning, Pedl'n,
Yes, you right about juices but I water mine down with water and hope I am not getting too much sugar.  My understanding is that if one gets fiber from a juice, its not as harmful.
If you listen to just 5 minutes of "The Bitter Truth" and then listen or read the links about the other side of the story of HFCS, its makes you think twice about using sugar so often.
I remember the doctor in "The Bitter Truth" saying the average person (American) consumed a huge amount of sugar annually. We(Ralph and I) eat about 5 lbs a year which is 2.5 lbs each.  Not anywhere near his numbers.

But he has some frightening facts about sugar and HFCS and how its affecting children around the world.  Babies having bariactric surgery in Japan, Australia etc.  Babies!! The American diet has been transferred to many foreign countries and is doing much harm to all, especially to to us.
Obesity has become a serious problem around the world but I think we have the most serious problem here in the states.
I hope all who discuss this topic will listen to the audios and read the articles cited here and mention the problems to their friends and families!
I watch my grans live on soda and many sugared foods.  Its really frightening to see this happening.  Who knows what is in the future healthwise for them?  One is already overweight at the age of 13!From one of the above links:
We know that sugary sodas aren't good for our bodies; now it turns out that they may not be good for our minds, either. A new study of more than 260,000 people has found a link between sweetened soft-drinks and depression -- and diet sodas may be making matters worse.

[BarbStAubrey]

As I understand it the corn fructose is the demon - I learned a few years ago my body reacts badly to corn products - try to shop and find foods that do not use corn fructose is like trying to find a needle in haystack - not just the frozen but most of what we can purchase in cans and jars all use corn fructose - even most meds are fixed in corn starch causing me big problems, I can't breath - my lungs fill up and contract simultaneously. I've some capsules that work but then they elevate my blood pressure -

Bless their hearts but the doctors do not know all what is in the prescriptions and can only prescribe what is available - not like years ago calling the pharmacy and telling them exactly what and how much was to be put into the locally made prescription drug.

Since this all became an issue I read that the sugar made from corn does not have something in it that allows the body to know when to stop eating - I never have read anything negative about sugar made from Beets which started I think back in the 1920s - but you can find real cane sugar and that is what I use in all my made from scratch foods - do not drink soda water nor do I put sugar in my coffee or tea - but weight is a problem part of I know because I do not have time to make all my meals and restaurant foods uses those giant size cans of food prepared with corn sugar.

I remember this came to light back in the 1980s that Nestles was offering free baby formula to moms in 3rd world countries - problem filled with corn sugar that did not give the baby what a healthy mother would have had she nursed. One of these social engineering ideas that mothers then would be free from nursing so they could work - supposedly this was to eliminate hunger. Ah so...

[maryz]

I'm checking in.

[Steph]

I drink juice and water it down every morning and also eat fresh fruit every single day.. Part of my healthy living plan. I cannot remember when I last bought sugar.. I use a sugar sub in my coffee,, drink maybe one diet soda a week and mostly drink water or unsweet tea. Sometimes use a bit of honey in hot tea..I still am heavier than I should be.. but go to the gym and walk two miles every day.. It is sort of wild.. My older son is a triathlete and very very fussy about what goes into his body.. His wife loves premade stuff.. My younger son and family are awful about sugar.. Love anything that is sweet and wont give it up.. Both men raised in the same household..
I know my problems are not sugar, but eating heavier meals than I should and eating out way too much. But eating alone at home is hard still, so I just try to keep my weight down to a dull roar. Also as you age, your metabolism goes to pot..Sigh.

[JoanP]

Pedln, really - 30 pounds?  Just from cutting out suguar? How difficult was it?  Did you cut out all sugar? I've read that about fruit juice - eat your fruit, but don't drink it.

I understand there is more to this conversation than how to lose weight - but it's part of it, isn't it?  I've a friend who lost her belly fat - all of it...in three months - by cutting out sugar...and alcohol.  Now her problem is the excess skin that remains to remind her of how much she's lost.  

Now to find some time to read up on those articles on high fructose corn syrup.

[JeanneP]

Adonnie.

You can't really go by how much sugar you buy a year.  Thing is it is in many things that we don't think to check.  I don't buy many things in cans other than tomato's and its in there. Tomato paste. Its in.  Lots of times listed under a different name.. Just have to keep check and see that your readings are O.K when you do the blood test.  Even if good just don't use a lot of sugar at all.

[ANNIE]

In the process of looking into the dangers of sugar, I also sound that diet sodas are truly adding to our woes.  Also, eating fast foods more than 3x a week can cause children to contract asthma. And as our JeanneP says sugar is everywhere.  Most likely its in our fast foods.  I know its in the breads and the mustard and catsup. Even Chinese has sugar including soy sauce.

[pedln]

30 pounds?  Just from cutting out suguar? How difficult was it?  Did you cut out all sugar?

No, JoanP, it was more counting carbs and calories, reading nutrition lables and keeping a food chart.  I think it would be impossible to cut out sugar completely from your diet.  As JeanneP pointed out, sugar is added to so many things.  But that's why reading labels is important -- that info is supposed to be there and you can compare.  I found that even in Kashi cereals the amount of sugar varies (I don't think any are sugar free).  GoLean with 6g per 1 C serving had about the least.

[JoanP]

And you avoided the high fructose too, I assume?  I can read labels, but haven't the patience to count carbs and calories...

I've a diabetic DIL - she's been diabetic since childhood.  Avoids soft drinks...but always has a can of diet in her hand.  Annie, why the warning on sugar-free sodas?

[JoanK]

Sugar is my nemisis. I have such a sweet tooth. Since I'm overweight, I'm trying to change my eating habits, according to te Mayo clinic diet. According to that, I can eat much fruit as I want, but should limit fruit juice (I've cut it out, and drink water) and should eat no more than 75 calories of added sugar a day. (I see that's in line with the RDA).

The rest of the diet is no problem, in fact, I'm enjoying it (adding salads and vegetables and cutting down on carbs, meat and fats). But I crave sweets, and am starting to sneak sweet treats. I had hoped that, as I ate less sugar, I'd stop craving it, but it hasn't happened.

Fortunately for me, my blood sugar is fine.

[pedln]

This is a graphic from one of the links in the heading -- Myths About HFCS.  I'm not sure I understand and may be missing something.  Are there differences between sugar and HFCS as far as the effects on our bodies are concerned?  So sugar is sugar or can it be considered something else?  Is it important that we differentiate?

Sugar Chart

[PatH]

I'm like Steph--my weakness is elsewhere--rich foods.  I know exactly when I bought my last bag of sugar, because I wrote the date on it--July, 2010; a five pound bag and there's still a pound left.  I'm a fan of real maple syrup, but it's too expensive to be a problem.

You have inspired me, though.  I'm going to add up all the sugar calories I eat today.  I'll report tomorrow.

[pedln]

This is a site I use a lot to find calories, carbs, sugar, etc.  After reading Pat's post about totalling her sugar calories I thought I'd check my breakfast sugar --  1 C fresh mixed berries on 1/2 C cereal came to 12grams of sugar (48 calories), with 3 grams (12 calories) of those being "added."  Sure adds up in a hurry.

Nutrition Data

I was curious about the sugar content of the berries -- blueberries had three times the sugar as raspberries and more than twice the sugar of blackberries.

[JoanK]

Oh, rats, and I like blueberries on my cereal.

PatH: I've noticed the difference when you visit: you're into the Sun chips and I'm into the chocolates.

I don't think it's the sugar we add to food that's the problem, but the sugar that's added before we get it.

[PatH]

Well, the breakfast sugar really added up for me--24 grams in the orange juice, and another 13 in a tangerine.  The daily total was 47 grams, 188 calories, 31 grams from juices, 13 from the tangerine, and the rest from breadstuffs.  It happened to be a very lean day for me--no desserts, so normally I might have even more.

[PatH]

Pedln, your food site looks like the data have been taken from the USDA foods list, which is what I used.  Your site is easier to use, and adds some stuff, but here is the USDA list in case anyone wants it.

http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search/list

[JoanK]

To convert from calories to grams, you devide by 4 for sugar, carbs, or protein and by 9 for fats. So the government recommended amount above of 80 calories a day is 20 grams.

I hope that is for added sugar. If they want us to eat three servings of fruit a day, that's already 70-80 calories.

[pedln]

JoanK, I think they're talking about "added" sugars -- what we add ourselves (and I don't ever) and what's added by the food industry.  Just out of curiosity I checked a few cans of Progresso Soups that I had and found the sugar range to be 1g to 5grams.  Of course, the devil in the ingredients there is sodium, though these did manage to stay below 700mg.

If we want more scare stories, there was an article in the NYtimes the other day entitled "Eat LIke a Mennonite" that dealt with the plastic that our food comes in.

[ANNIE]

I don't know what they are talking about.  I looked for the amounts that are okay for us to use per day but my computer refuses to show me drop down menus, I can't copy and paste what I found nor can I leave a link here.Not my day!

[ANNIE]

I changed browsers and now the drop downs work.  Here's what is recommended:
Surveys have also found that the average American consumes around 22.2 teaspoons of added sugar every day. According to the new guidelines, we should really be eating a fraction of that amount. The recommended sugar intake for adult women is 5 teaspoons (20 grams) of sugar per day, for adult men, it’s 9 teaspoons (36 grams) daily, and for children, it's 3 teaspoons (12 grams) a day.

Same article--not all sugars are bad!!

Naturally occurring sugars in fruits, vegetables, low-fat dairy and whole grains don't need to be avoided, and make up part of a healthy diet, says lead author Rachel K. Johnson, PhD, MPH, RD.

[ANNIE]

Here's one good substitute for sugar.     Stevia-good substitute

Here are the worst and best sugar substitutes.   Best and Worst Sugar Substitutes

[jane]

I have a hard time taking a "health" site seriously that's named:

http://www.totalbeauty.com/diet-health

I see Splenda was on their "good" list, so since I can't take the aftertaste of stevia, I'll continue with splenda. 

[JoanK]

This is PatH in disguise--I'm using JoanK's computer.

Jane mentions the aftertaste of Stevia.  Many people find saccharine bitter, and most of the other sweeteners are unpleasant to some people.  All the artificial sweeteners have an unpleasant taste to me, which I notice even when I didn't know there was a sweetener in something.  How common is this; do any of you find the sweeteners unpleasant?

[jane]

For me, it's  Stevia or that Sweet 'n Low saccahrine (sp?) aftertaste that I can't take.    I don't find an aftertaste with either equal or splenda.  I'm sure, as with all things and taste buds, each of us reacts differently to different things.

jane

[ANNIE]

I don't like any of those chemical substitutes.  That's why I put up the link to the Best and Worst.  Take a look:

Number 8 is my favorite sweetener:  Honey is the best!

[ANNIE]

We have come to the last day of this discussion, I want to thank all who have taken part including those from S&F who tried to get into this site but were unsuccessful.  I hope the links that I put up here were of some help to many of you.  I still like honey as the best sweetener and no substitutes for me.  I do realize that those that have diabetes who like their food sweet have to use the substitutes. 
Hope you liked our topic.  We will have to come up with another in March.  We will let you know the dates next month.  Thanks for joining us!
 

[PatH]

That was an interesting and useful discussion.  I learned some things, and changed my attitude on some aspects of my diet.  Thank you.

[pedln]

Ditto, PatH.  This discussion has spurred me on to learn more about the things we put in our bodies.

[JoanK]

I agree.