Author Topic: I Always Loved You by Robin Oliveira ~ PREDISCUSSION (Read 14956 times)

JoanP · « **on:** May 14, 2014, 12:26:50 PM »

The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.

June Book Club Online
Please post below if you are free to join us.
JUNE 1

I ALWAYS LOVED YOU: A NOVEL
by Robin Oliveira

This should be FUN! With the Internet at our fingertips, we'll be able to examine each of the artworks described here by the new talent, Robin Oliveira!

This is from a recent Seattle Times review:
"Degas is tempestuous, sardonic and witty. But the focus is squarely on Mary, working on unfinished paintings, washing her brushes, reeking of turpentine, collaborating with Degas on a journal of etchings, thinking about “the essential talent of seeing.” Mary Cassatt comes alive as disciplined, socially acute, outspoken and stoic in facing down her self-doubt."

JoanP · « **Reply #1 on:** May 14, 2014, 12:36:10 PM »

What do you think? Was it just a coincidence that Robin Oliveira's latest book just released in February and the new Degas/Cassatt exhibition at the National Gallery of Art , opened three days ago? Did the idea of pairing the work of these two artists occur to the author and the museum without knowledge of what the other was doing? I find this difficult to believe...but it is fortunate for us, isn't it? What a timely choice! Maybe you can come to DC to see the actual paintings - The exhibition will be here between May 11 and October 5.

Please post below if you are free to join us. You might find a waiting list at your local library. Please check right away and let us know when you are able to get a copy. That will determine how soon we can begin this discussion. Welcome in whatever capacity you can join us!

PatH · « **Reply #2 on:** May 14, 2014, 11:20:38 PM »

At my library, there were 6 copies on the shelves out of 30, so as soon as they tell me my hold copy is available, I've got one.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #3 on:** May 15, 2014, 12:49:42 PM »

Looking forward to this - have my book - started it but busy time I have not even finished the first chapter -

Kinda remember when all of sudden some years back there was a resurgence of her work - seems to me it was after or during the time of the women's movement when many accomplished women were being brought to our attention. However, I have said it before, not in a million years would I have paired these two - I wonder if it is her subject matter but I always imagined her being a shy and retiring artist and yet, thinking about it you cannot be a good artist without, rather strongly believing in your self and your work.

Regardless I have my book, I am glad we are starting on June 1 - I need the next couple of weeks.

pedln · « **Reply #4 on:** May 16, 2014, 11:04:48 AM »

My library has only the electronic version available and right now it is NOT available. I haven't put a hold on it yet as I will be travelling the next two+ weeks and am not sure when I'll be back home. I've only done it once before from the e version and the library told me I had to download from my computer. I would assume I could use my iPad for downloading as well. Actually I think they were telling me I couldn't download it while in the library.

PatH · « **Reply #5 on:** May 16, 2014, 01:16:57 PM »

My hold is now available. I'll wait a few days to pick it up, to prolong how long I have it, in case I can't renew it.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #6 on:** May 16, 2014, 03:45:39 PM »

If you can swing 10.93 plus the 3.99 shipping Amazon has a very good copy sold by Hastings.

JoanP · « **Reply #7 on:** May 17, 2014, 11:04:24 AM »

Barb, I imagine the copy you found, which was "sold by Hastings" is the edition published by Penguin - that Hastings was just the Amazon seller? That is an excellent price!
- I wondered about photos of the Impressionists' art mentioned in the book - but checked the Penguin/Random House hardcover edition - which I assume is the first published edition - and see that the author included no photos. So, that will not be an issue in selecting a paper book, audial or e-reader. Pedln, I am quite sure you can download the electronic version on your iPad...but would check that with someone more knowledgeable than I am.

We really look forward to your joining us! We will use the Internet to examine the artwork referenced by Ms. Oliveira.

I never heard of a relationship between the two - Degas was quite a bit older than Mary (not sure how much) - but now see there is evidence that they spent much time together. I would love to find the painting he did of her...

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #8 on:** May 17, 2014, 02:07:58 PM »

Joan I usually look at the price of used books on Amazon and add the cost of shipping since the used books are not covered by Prime unless there was an arrangement with Amazon - if the cost of the used book plus shipping is less than the cost of the new copy and in good condition I go for it - they give anything from acceptable and usually indicate what the problems are - to good again, usually listing the problems - to very good and finally nearly new - if a book has been on the market awhile book seller's often have new copies that in their brick and mortar store would be reduced and they sell the new book on Amazon for less than Amazon's price but again, as a book sold in the Amazon Market Place regardless of Prime there is the cost of shipping - a book is 3.99 and a CD or DVD is 2.99

And so yes, the copy would be from the original publisher that someone has read and they no longer want in their home library so they sell it.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #9 on:** May 17, 2014, 02:11:30 PM »

Degas painting(s) of Mary Cassatt

JoanP · « **Reply #10 on:** May 17, 2014, 02:18:37 PM »

Thanks, Barbara...Maybe we'll learn in Oliveira's book what Mary Cassatt is holding in her hands in the first painting. She looks older here than I imagine her to be. Did she live the rest of her life in Paris as an artist after arriving as a young woman?
I wonder how common it was for artists to sit for other artists?

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #11 on:** May 17, 2014, 02:20:31 PM »

Mary Cassatt at the Opera painted by Degas

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #12 on:** May 17, 2014, 02:22:34 PM »

Evidently so - I have not read that much of the book but it appears she was working in Paris without success - family wanted her back in the states and when she was about to give in she meets Degas.

I would love to know how much of this is fiction because with finding these paintings they obviously knew each other.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #13 on:** May 17, 2014, 02:27:59 PM »

Oh now this is nice -

A sketch of Mary done at the theater by Degas

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #14 on:** May 17, 2014, 02:38:20 PM »

Found this online

Quote

Mary Cassatt, painted by the French Impressionist Edgar Degas.
In 1877 Cassatt met Degas, who advised her to join the Impressionists. �I accepted with joy. Now I could work with absolute independence without considering the opinion of a jury. I had already recognized who were my true masters. I admired Manet, Courbet, and Degas. I took leave of conventional art. I began to live.� A close friendship with Degas began, which lasted until Degas� death in 1917.

In 1880 Degas painted this wonderful portrait of Ms Cassatt, oil on canvas, c. 1880-1884. The painting belongs to the National Portrait Gallery, The Smithsonian Institution, Washington, DC, USA.

Degas and Renoir greatly influenced her style of painting, and for a long time Cassatt was believed to be a pupil of Degas, but although they had a mutual influence on each other's work, their relationship was absolutely platonic. Once, on seeing some of Mary�s work, Degas said that he would not have admitted that a woman could draw so well.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #15 on:** May 17, 2014, 02:50:53 PM »

aha - a bit more about an older Mary - and wheee some actual photos of her when she was older.

Quote

Although based in her rue de Marignan apartment in Paris in the winter, with the occasional visit to Grasse in Provence if the winter weather was really bad, Mary Cassatt bought herself a summer residence in 1893. It was the Chateau Beaufresne which was situated fifty miles north-west of Paris in the commune of Mesnil-Théribus in the Oise department. She loved her summer home and stayed there 33 years up until 1926, the year she died. Of the country house she once said:

“…I have two loves, my country and Beaufresne !…”

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #16 on:** May 17, 2014, 02:56:48 PM »

A photo of Mary as a young women

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #17 on:** May 17, 2014, 03:02:06 PM »

A bit more from the internet

Quote

Edgar Degas & Mary Cassatt met in 1877, through a mutual friend, M. Tourny, but both were aware of each other’s work before then. He had seen her work at the Salon in 1872, 1873, 1874, & 1876 and commented, “There is someone who feels as I do.”

Mary, her parents and sister moved from Pittsburgh to Paris in 1873. Shortly thereafter, she saw Degas’ work in Durand Ruel’s gallery window. She said, "I used to go and flatten my nose against that window and absorb all I could of his Art. It changed my life. I saw art then as I wanted to see it.”

And what she is holding in her hand

Quote

In 1912, she had art dealer Durand Ruel sell Degas’ oil painting, Mary Cassatt Playing Cards. She wrote, “I do wish to leave it with my family as being of me. It has good points as art, but it is so distressing and depicts me as a repugnant person, that I would not want it to be known that I sat for it.” She did not like how Degas had portrayed her wasting her time at a game of cards or even worse, as a fortune-teller.

ANNIE · « **Reply #18 on:** May 17, 2014, 04:57:46 PM »

Here's link to a book about Mary Cassat and her sister, Lydia.

http://www.raintaxi.com/online/2002spring/chessman.shtml

and another link to the book:

http://www.amazon.com/Lydia-Cassatt-Reading-Morning-Paper/dp/1583222723/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1400360340&sr=1-1&keywords=lydia+cassatt+reading+the+morning+paper

Did we discuss that here? It includes 5 color plates of the entire group of paintings made by Mary Cassatt of her sister, Lydia. And, yes, we did read it! In 2004, led by Joan Grimes. Long time ago

http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/fiction/LydiaCassatt.htm

I have my copy of our new book and will try to discuss it but it doesn't draw me as the above book did.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #19 on:** May 18, 2014, 12:31:05 PM »

This sounds like fun. My library has a copy available, but I'm out of town and won't get it until next Tues. If it's considered a new book, I willonly have it for 2 weeks. But this sounds like a discussion that will have meny generalities and tangents in it, so I'm in.

Jean

JoanP · « **Reply #20 on:** May 19, 2014, 10:04:26 AM »

Glad to hear you'll be joining us, Jean. Next Tuesday is the 27 and we'll plan to begin this discussion on June 1, so that should work out just fine. And you're right, there are many many avenues to follow -

Annie, I really think you'll enjoy the discussion...even though the book didn't "pull you in?" (we'll talk more about what you meant after everyone has had a chance to read it - okay?)

Here's another book by Robin Oliveira some of you may have read. - I hadn't heard of it, though it was a NY Times best seller when it come out in 2010 - her debut novel - My Name is Mary Sutter.
It's an historical novel about a young woman's struggle to become a doctor during the Civil War. She seems to like this period.

I don't think we ever read "Lydia Cassatt Reading the Morning" by Harriet Scott Chessman here as a group. I'm assuming this painting from the bookcover of that book is one of Mary's. Was Lydia also an artist?

ANNIE · « **Reply #21 on:** May 19, 2014, 01:34:29 PM »

JoanP,
Yes, we did'
http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/fiction/LydiaCassatt.htmd read
Lydia Reads the Morning Paper,

back in 2002 and Joan Grimes led it. I put a link in a post made on May 17th. Its the second link there. Hmmmmm!

We are planning to go visit my sister, Mary, in early June and won't be back until June 16. Then we leave for Alpena, MI on the 24th with return on the 29th.

This limits my time in the discussion but I will be there whenever I can, posting from my Mini!

pedln · « **Reply #22 on:** May 19, 2014, 10:43:41 PM »

Well I put an electronic (digital) hold on it, the one copy for the state of Missouri. Surely not? It says "you are user 1 out of 1 on the waiting list. i copy available." I hope I know what to do when it become available.

Annie, I"ll honk when I go through your fair city - I expect to hit it sometime Thursday.

JoanP, does she have a tube of paint in her hand?

ANNIE · « **Reply #23 on:** May 20, 2014, 10:37:29 AM »

Pedl'n,
We will wave back! Are you coming in from the east or west (I-70) or south or north(I-71)? Where are you coming from or going to?? Did you mean Columbus or Gahanna?

Meaning of:
at·el·ier

ˌatlˈyā
noun
a workshop or studio, especially one used by an artist or designer.
synonyms: workshop, studio, workroom.

JoanP, you might want to save this to a folder of words that we will all be looking up while reading this book.

marjifay · « **Reply #24 on:** May 20, 2014, 10:48:28 AM »

I'm sorry but I won't be reading it. I'm not a big reader of love stories, especially a fictional one. If it were a nonfiction book, I might consider it. But I'll look in at times to see what you all thought of it.

(I wonder how many of your personal acquaintnanes have had a great love? I've only known one couple who were still very much in love after long years of marriage. It took me only a couple years to get over mine, LOL)

Marj

mabel1015j · « **Reply #25 on:** May 20, 2014, 12:06:08 PM »

i haven't explored this yet, but the site might be helpful, or just fun, to look at during our discussion.

http://www.openculture.com/2014/05/the-met-puts-400000-high-res-images-online.html

JoanP · « **Reply #26 on:** May 20, 2014, 04:36:23 PM »

Annie - That link to the discussion of the book about Mary's sister, Lydia, didn't work the first time I tried it...it was fun reading the comments in that discussion. You have a good memory.
Let's wait and see how much vocabulary is needed before opening another page...
So far, you have suggested one...atelier. Maybe there will be more unfamiliar terms of the art world

Pedln, can't wait to hear how it goes downloading the electronic version. Look forward to seeing you when you are in the area...hoping we can see the Cassatt/Degas exhiibit at the National then.

JoanP · « **Reply #27 on:** May 20, 2014, 05:02:16 PM »

Jean - this is going to be so much fun! The Metropolitan Museum in NY holds a number of the Cassatt/Degas paintings included in the show just opened at the National Museum of Art in DC. Actually, I recognize some from the regular collection at the National. I can't wait to see where the paintings are from in this exhibit.

Marjifay - this is not that kind of romantic love story, but yes, it is historical fiction, which you might not enjoy. The keyword here is historical - there is probably enough art history here - based on fact. Glad you will be popping in now and then for that part of the discussion.

pedln · « **Reply #28 on:** May 20, 2014, 05:10:20 PM »

Annie -- I'm heading to Ithaca for grandson's graduation, up 71, hope I don't get lost. I was referring to Columbus. Isn't Gahanna close to Columbus? (I won't call it a suburb. We once had a speaker here who was late because she thought Cape Girardeau was a suburb of St. Louis. The assemblage almost booed her.)

ANNIE · « **Reply #29 on:** May 20, 2014, 05:45:58 PM »

Pedl'n,
Our granddaughter's intended is receiving his PHD on the 24th or 25th at Cornell. Is your grandson graduating from Cornell or Ithaca College? Most likely you will be within a stone's throw of our daughter's and her family's homes. They have lived up there since 1981. We love Ithaca with all its waterfalls and rivers, state parks. Just a beautiful college town.

ANNIE · « **Reply #30 on:** May 20, 2014, 05:58:53 PM »

JoanP,
Here's another one--bergere----http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergère The two words were in the same paragraph.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #31 on:** May 20, 2014, 07:26:51 PM »

I'm next up on reserve list. These two are on my favorites list.

JoanP · « **Reply #32 on:** May 21, 2014, 10:15:53 AM »

That's good to hear, mrs.sherlock - glad you plan to join us - and can get the book!

mabel1015j · « **Reply #33 on:** May 21, 2014, 12:33:49 PM »

That chair looks very comfortable! Straight back, good for our backs; high cushion easy to get out of - where can i get one?

Jean

Frybabe · « **Reply #34 on:** May 21, 2014, 03:11:47 PM »

My library has copies on order. The only thing they have available is an eAudiobook which appears to be available at the moment. The tiny excerpt of the prolog has interested me, so perhaps I will borrow it. Even if I don't "read" the book, I will be reading along with the posts. In me small collection of art books is a Smithsonian edition of Mary Cassatt's works that I received years ago as part of my magazine subscription.

JoanP · « **Reply #35 on:** May 21, 2014, 05:43:46 PM »

Fry, it was that Prologue that drew me into the book...fascinating - starting with the end of Mary's life. Gets you thinking...

Happy you are joining us. When you get a chance, will you check to see the extent of the Smithsonian's Cassatt collection? Not name them all, just count them? I know that they will be part of the current Cassatt/Degas exhibition in DC. Just wondering how many have been brought in from other museums.

Jean, pack your bag - surely we 'll find your chair in a Paris shoppe!

ANNIE · « **Reply #36 on:** May 21, 2014, 10:47:38 PM »

Pedl'n,
Gahanna sits on the northeast side of Columbus.

Frybabe · « **Reply #37 on:** May 22, 2014, 07:48:57 AM »

I got lucky, JoanP. I found the Smithsonian research system site: http://www.siris.si.edu/ I am including it here for anyone who may be interested in what else the Smithsonian has.

The catalog lists tons of Cassatt paintings so I refined the catalog to include only those actually owned by the Smithsonian.
http://siris-artinventories.si.edu/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=140075BJ482K0.387&menu=search&aspect=Keyword&npp=50&ipp=20&spp=20&profile=ariall&ri=&term=Mary+Cassatt&index=.GW&x=8&y=10&aspect=Keyword&term=&index=.AW&term=&index=.TW&term=&index=.SW&term=&index=.FW&term=Smithsonian&index=.OW&term=&index=.NW

In the general Cassatt list, I noticed a number of ownership unknown listings. I wonder how many of those were the result of WWII Nazi confiscations or left behind when people fled their homes.

JoanP · « **Reply #38 on:** May 23, 2014, 11:03:38 AM »

Thanks for this, Fry. It's my guess that many, if not most of these paintings are part of the current exhibit at the National Gallery of Art

I read this in the link to the exhibit...

Quote

"The Gallery is exceptionally rich in holdings by both artists, with one of the finest collections of works by Cassatt in existence, totaling 119, and the third largest collection of works by Degas in the world, totaling 158."

And I thought this was interesting -

Quote

"Degas owned some 100 works by Cassatt—more than any other contemporary artist of his generation."

I wonder what became of them at his death? Did they go to Mary? To the Louvre? Maybe we'll learn more about this...

PatH · « **Reply #39 on:** May 23, 2014, 08:29:50 PM »

I picked up my book today. There's no waiting list, so I should be able to renew it.

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Author Topic: I Always Loved You by Robin Oliveira ~ PREDISCUSSION (Read 14956 times)