Author Topic: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online  (Read 44739 times)

JoanP

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The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.
June Book Club Online

I ALWAYS LOVED YOU: A NOVEL
by Robin Oliveira



 
This should be FUN!  With the Internet at our fingertips, we'll be able to examine each of the artworks described here  by  the new talent, Robin Oliveira!

This is from a recent Seattle Times review:
"Degas is tempestuous, sardonic and witty.  But the focus is squarely on Mary, working on unfinished paintings, washing her brushes, reeking of turpentine, collaborating with Degas on a journal of etchings, thinking about “the essential talent of seeing.” Mary Cassatt comes alive as disciplined, socially acute, outspoken and stoic in facing down her self-doubt."

Discussion Schedule:

June 1-2    1926                Prologue
June 3-6      1877              Chapters One - Nine  
June 7-13    1877 cont.        Chapters Ten - Nineteen  
June 14-16  1878                Chapters Twenty - Twenty Six                
June 17-22  1879                Chapters Twenty Seven - Thirty Five
June 23-27  1880                Chapters Thirty Six - Forty Four
June 28-30  1881-3             Chapters Forty Five - Fifty Three


Related links:
Vocabulary Help
National Gallery of Art Exhibition of Degas/Cassatt paintings

Prologue~June 1-2    1926                

1.  Did you think it odd that the Prologue tells the end of story in the opening chapter?  Why do you think Ms Oliveira did this?
2.  "What detritus a life leaves."  Can you begin to relate to Mary's situation as she packs up the contents of her old studio?
3.  "Letters, so many pages, you would think they had been in love."  He saved hers too.  What did this say of their relationship?
4.  What more do we  learn of Mary and Degas in the Prologue?

June 3-6  1877 Chapters One-Nine  

1.  Acceptance by the jury of artists at the Salon - "the ambition of every artist in Paris." What becomes of those not invited?

2. Does Degas' painting, "In a Cafe-the Absinthe Drinker" make you uncomfortable, as it did Abigail Alcott? Should Art make viewer feel uncomfortable?  What effect does it have on you?

3. Are you familiar with Berthe Morisot's paintings?  Was she one of the Impressionists?  Why doesn't Manet exhibit with the Impressionists? (He's always been rejected by the Salon.)

4. Do you agree with Degas - that artistic talent "is not a gift, but rather hard work, study of form, and obsessive revision?"

5. Do you believe Degas actually told Mary on their first meeting that she "hated" her own paintings,which had just been rejected by the Salon?  Was her  portrait of the young American, Mary Ellison her first painting after that meeting?  Can you find it?

6. Have you noticed Robin Oliveira's use of the artist's palette in her descriptions - the bitumen and ocher dresses, the Viridian green?


Discussion Leader:   Joan P



JoanP

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club OnlineMOVE
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2014, 08:32:48 AM »
June already!  What happened to May?  Many of you have started the book, some are still waiting for a copy.  How are the downloads going? We'll begin slowly.  Once you have the book, we'll pick up the page, I think.

Let's spend the next two days on the Prologue...which I found surprising
Did you think it odd that the Prologue tells the end of story in the opening chapter? I found it a moving way to begin...

JoanP

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2014, 04:25:38 PM »
Hope can find your way here...

PatH

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2014, 06:11:37 PM »
No problem finding my way--I've been out most of the day.

It's an odd way to start, ending first, but very effective.  Oliveira isn't really giving away much, either, except for a few basic facts.  She raises more questions than she answers, and leaves you wondering whether you will be certain of anything.

mrssherlock

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2014, 06:42:09 PM »
Oliviera is telling us that this is no ordinary love story, though it is about their love for one another.  Edgar I can understand because so much of the lives of the Impressionists is common knowledge.  It will be hard work to 'get' Mary.  Obsessive women seem so unwomanly to me and it surely must be obsession that drives her.









Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

BarbStAubrey

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2014, 07:04:37 PM »
Glad we are open for chatting - back later it has been a full day - son up from the Houston area to install a new Hot Water heater - whew - all week it was like living in 1879 using pitchers of water heated on the stove to bathe - tonight a hot shower, wash my hair - laundry is going now and tomorrow my grandson from NC arrives with his Dad for a week...wheee.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

kidsal

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2014, 02:46:04 AM »
Hope to catch up when my book arrives.

PatH

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2014, 11:29:15 AM »
Quote
"What detritus a life leaves."

I can really relate to that, as I'm trying to clear out some of my own detritus just now.  I haven't found any love letters from a famous painter, though.  She's kind of stalling on packing up, though, rummaging through the rubble to find the letters.

JoanP

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2014, 12:35:21 PM »
Methinks it will be easy to catch up - once your books arrive.  Don't rush through the "Prologue" (I corrected my use of the term in earlier post) - The Prologue spoke volumes to me about Mary C.

Quote
"It will be hard work to 'get' Mary."
 I'm beginning to agree with you, Jackie - mrssherlock.  It's funny, I always think of those loving paintings of hers... mothers with babies.  I can see a revision of this viewpoint in the future.

"No ordinary love story," you say.  I just have to ask - what IS  an ordinary love story? :D  I'm serious.

Mary is hunting for a box of letters - it is clear they are letters from him.  Don't you wonder what's in them?  The question in the back of my mind - how much of this book is fiction, how much is fact.  Boxes of love letters would be proof there really was an affair, don't you think?

JoanP

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2014, 12:50:23 PM »

Quote
"What detritus* a life leaves."
  PatH - I know what you are saying about dealing with the accumulation of a lifetime.  I think the only cure is to move out of the house, making decisions about which few things are going with you.  Letters - from friends who have deceased.  Would they make the cut?  How about love letters?  Would you hang on to them?

Mary seems to be packing to move.  Will we find out where she is going?  She hasn't painted in some time...her eyesight is failing.  This seems to be a common ailment among artists - or with everyone. Maybe  painters depend on sharp eyesight to paint details and when this fades with age, then they can no longer paint? 

Speaking of "detritus" - Annie had requested earlier that we keep a page of unfamiliar words in the heading...we've started such a page here - Vocabulary Help

Please let us know of terms you think would be helpful...

ANNIE

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2014, 02:45:37 PM »
My reason for not knowing if I wanted to continue this book came after reading the Prologue.  I thought why would I want to read about a woman who is so cold and unreasonable.  But, as you might know I haven't put the book down for more than a day as I am hooked!  Oliveira has that talent that I found in Susan Vreeland (Luncheon of the Boating Party) and Tracy Chavalier (Remarkable Creatures).  All three of these authors have such a wonderful way of bringing the readers right in to their novels.  As if we are really there and experiencing the weather, the cold, the heat and the hard work and the love of their work that these people have.  So, here I am, loving this story.  Must get back to it!!!!   :D :D
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

JoanK

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2014, 05:14:06 PM »
I looked for the site yesterday, and couldn't find it. For some reason, the "look for new posts didn't tell me that there was a new post in the pre-discussion so I almost left without looking for this site. Hope no one else makes that mistake.

I must admit, I found what the book said about painting more interesting than the character of Mary. Particularly what she says about "seeing." I'm interested in what those of you who paint think of it.

I don't paint, but I did get a book years ago called "Painting with the Right Side of Your Brain" that tried to teach exactly the shift in "seeing" that Mary Cassatt talks about --- from seeing a chair as a chair, for example, to seeing it as lines, curves, and colors. Art101 -- but it was new to me.

And in Chapter 1, Mary says that Degas has a way of seeing that she lacks. I find this interesting. I have no desire to paint, but I'm always trying to "see things" more (don't know exactly what I mean by this). 

CallieOK

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2014, 07:44:17 PM »
Oops, I lost you in the shuffle from the Pre-Discussion!

I will pick up the book at the library tomorrow and begin reading.


JoanP

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2014, 09:53:59 AM »
No rush, Callie!  You're not the only one scurrying to get a copy of the book.  We'll take it easy to get started - continue with the Prologue and into the first half of the year, 1877 - the year MaryC. and Degas met.  Each year after that is a clear break for our discussion purposes...1877 is an exception, so let's take the first half of that year, the first NINE chapters. 
Remember, this is just for the discussion - of course you can read at whatever pace you choose when you get your book.

Discussion Schedule:

June 1-2    1926                Prologue
June 3-6      1877              Chapters One - Nine 
June 7-13    1877 cont.        Chapters Ten - Nineteen   
June 14-16  1878                Chapters Twenty - Twenty Six                 
June 17-22  1879                Chapters Twenty Seven - Thirty Five
June 23-27  1880                Chapters Thirty Six - Forty Four
June 28-30  1881-3             Chapters Forty Five - Fifty Three


JoanP

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2014, 09:59:58 AM »
In an hour, PatH and Pedln and I plan to meet at the National Gallery of Art to see the new Mary Cassatt/Edgar Degas exhibition.  Of course we will be alert for any information that will shed light on our discussion.  I'm particularly interested in Mary's paintings after 1877 - the year she met Degas.  I thought that was the turning point in the way she approached her painting.

Do you believe Degas actually told Mary on their first meeting that she "hated" her own paintings,which had just been rejected by the Salon?  Was her  portrait of the young American, Mary Ellison her first painting after that meeting?  I wonder if we'll see it in the exhibit.

Back this afternoon with a report~

All systems go, PedlnPat?

bellamarie

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2014, 11:29:38 AM »
JoanK.  I think I know what you are trying to say, I too look beyond the painting trying to see more.  We just toured our Toledo Art Museum, they had the painter Varujan Boghosian exhibits recently.  They had a special engagement called Arts in Bloom, where local florists made glass blown vases, at our Glass museum, and then made floral arrangements to depict certain paintings to place their floral/glass blown arrangements near.  Our tour guide would have us look beyond just the painting and asked us many questions correlating the  vases and floral arrangements with the fantastic works of art hanging.  We have a wonderful art museum here in Toledo Ohio, and draw many tourists.  We were also honored to have on loan from the vast collections of the Versailleshe Musée du Louvre, the Musée Carnavalet - Histoire de Paris, the Palace of Versailles, and other museums and private lenders, many have never before been exhibited outside Paris.


The Toledo Art Museum

The Varujan Boghosian exhibition in the Wolfe Gallery mezzanine continues through May 25.

#ParisatTMA is in its final days. "The Art of the Louvre's Tuileries Garden" is on view through Sunday, May 11 and features one hundred works related to the garden, including large-scale sculptures, paintings, photographs, prints and architectural models.


https://www.facebook.com/events/456118721189364/

I never appreciated our museum as much until I spent the afternoon there recently.

I have not gotten my book yet, but intend to download it into my iPad today.

Joan, Pedln and Pat, how exciting!  Can't wait to hear all about your day at the museum.   

Ciao for now~
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden


JoanK

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2014, 03:21:09 PM »
Wow! If the long UR causes trouble, please remove it.

ANNIE

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2014, 04:45:49 PM »
No problem, JoanK, with seeing the picture.  And isn't it lovely! I must go back and save it to my ???????  Well, I will remember how to do that later. :D :D

"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

mabel1015j

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2014, 05:00:51 PM »
I didn't get back in town before my library closed to move across the parking lot to a brand new building. So i didn't get the book. It will be closed for 2-3 weeks, so i'm just going to hitch a ride on your discussion until then when i can pick up the book.

I just today ran across a blog you may like to investigate. Ironically his latest blog is about paintings of mothers and children and mentions MC.

http://albertis-window.com

Jean

mrssherlock

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2014, 09:47:10 PM »
JoanK  Here's a site that takes care of that pesky url problem:http://tinyurl.com/

(url) has a length of 694 characters and resulted in the following TinyURL which has a length of 26 characters:

    http://tinyurl.com/kw5jmxg

    [Open in new window]
    [Copy to clipboard]

Or, give your recipients confidence with a preview TinyURL:

    http://preview.tinyurl.com/kw5jmxg
    [Open in new window]

Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

JoanP

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2014, 10:48:54 AM »

We did it!  A wonderful day - we walked our feet off, viewing hundreds of paintings - right out of the pages of Robin Oliveira's book!  I brought my book with me...was aware the whole day that I ALWAYS LOVED YOU was on display - for sale - all over the gallery! Of course, I had no receipt!  Twas a birthday present - not a mark on it...

Will provide details from the show...though not all at once as we read about the individual paintings.
 
I can't wait for PatH (center) and Pedln(on left) to get here to share their impressions and ...of these Impressionists.  It was a delightful experiences.  I hope Pedln shares her "selfies" - that was a riot that had everyone laughing along with us... :D



JoanP

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2014, 11:00:41 AM »
JoanK - thank you!  Thank you!  You have identified Mary Cassatt's painting of Mary Ellison!  We saw this painting yesterday at the National Gallery...in fact we saw several paintings of her!  Pedln kept finding them, but nowhere was she named!  Wonderful!
If you don't have the book yet, you might not know the significance of this painting.  After having had her paintings rejected by the Salon in Paris, Mary was so depressed, she began packing - heading back to America.  A meeting with a family friend, who brought along his friend, Edgar Degas, the artist.  Degas insisted on seeing her rejected paintings...then convinced her to show her paintings with his group of impressionists the following year  - 1879.  Mary decided to stay and started again, painting in a different way as Degas inspired her - an Impressionsist is born!.  The first paintings she did after this meeting were those of Mary Ellison.

CallieOK

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2014, 11:39:53 AM »
Oh,  I can't wait to "read all about it"!!!

I found this web site of Mary Cassatt paintings.  However, I do not see that they are dated - so am not sure which are "pre-Degas" and which came later.

http://www.marycassatt.org/

Also found this information about "Nana", the Degas painting that was not accepted for the Salon because it was "considered contemptuous of the morality of the time"  (according to the Wikipedia article).  
Interesting to read the observations that brought about this decision.
I also found the definition of a "Nana" interesting - since that name makes me think of the "other grandmother" of my grandchildren (who would probably get a kick out of the "other" definition).   :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nana_(painting)

CallieOK

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2014, 03:04:28 PM »
Oops - glad I caught my error before anyone else did.

It was Degas' friend Manet who painted "Nana".  Sorry 'bout that.   :-[

bellamarie

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2014, 03:48:49 PM »
I just downloaded my book from our local library onto my iPad!  I am so excited, because I did not want to pay $14.99 for it.  Pedln, PatH., and JoanP., I can only imagine how much fun the three of you had at the museum.  Can't wait to see the selfies....isn't technology so much fun!

Well, I have read the Prologue and feel a bit sad.  Knowing the ending before reading a book is sometimes a nice thing, and yet this seems bittersweet knowing Degas has died, Mary has managed to get her hands on his letters she wrote to him, and has them with the letters he wrote to her.  Both piles tied up in ribbon, hers pink, his black.  How romantic this seems even though it appears love slipped through their fingers.  Or did it?  Can two people be in love, without ever exchanging a physical relationship?  I certainly think so....

I loved this "Tonight, she would paint once again, though only in her mind; would indulge imagination, though only once.  Would believe what she's scarcely been able to believe then." pg.9

"She fingered the scalloped tendril of faded pink ribbon that bound the letters.  She had chosen ribbon, instead of string because it reminded her of his danseuses' bright sashes, their pink and green bows, lush and extravagant in their fullness.  Somehow, he had made even the sashes seem to dance,"  pg. 5

Then this tells us a bit more about Degas....."He had been an uncompromising man, stubborn and ironic; hence ribbons, to goad as much as to honor."   pg. 6

R.O. has truly captured the essence of Degas's painting and personality, using something as simple as ribbons, to tie up letters of sentiment and love.


I am a bit behind all of you, but will catch up quickly.  I just have to say, I can tell I am going to enjoy this style of writing.

Ciao for now~
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

JoanP

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2014, 10:00:39 AM »
Good! Another "book" in hand.  Bella, I had the same sad feeling reading the Prologue.   I suppose it shouldn't have come as a surprise learning that Degas had died.  Inevitable.  Always sad for the one left behind.  Are her memories of Degas "sweet"?  She's remembering him as a difficult man - "uncompromising, stubborn."    
Do we know if theirs was a physical relationship - or NOT?  I suppose the answer can be found in the box of letters.  Here in Mary's flat we learn that his letters to her - and hers to him!   The letters are the key.  Both their contents - and the volume.  So many letters - saved.   I'm curious - have you saved old letters from the past?

JoanP

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2014, 10:10:06 AM »
Callie - thank you for those links!  Will save  the one of Manet's "Nana" - we're going to be hearing much more of that one painting next week when we learn more of his relationship with Berthe Morisot.  

I can understand why the conservative Salon jury - fellow artists  old school - (no Impressionists on this panel) -  would not accept the lady in her state of undress.  What I don't understand is why he keeps submitting them - and why he won't show his paintings with the Impressionists...


JoanP

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2014, 10:21:49 AM »
Callie's link to Mary Cassatt's paintings - another keeper.  431 paintings!  When we were at the Cassatt/Degas exhibit a few days ago, we saw several paintings and drawings of Mary by Degas.  I remember searching for even one that she did of him.  Awful memory - can't remember if successful.  PatH, Pedln, do you remember? I'm going to go through those paintings, Callie - and see if my memory is jogged.
 
At the very end of same link, I see a very short bio - Mary Stevenson Cassatt (May 22, 1844 - June 14, 1926).  So I think we're safe in concluding that Mary didn't marry - and notice that she died in 1926 - which is the same year that Oliveira begins the novel with the Prologue...

PatH

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2014, 01:01:51 PM »
I can't remember seeing one.  Pedln?

The exhibit was a wonderful experience.  It was perfect for the book, too; the focus was on the interaction between Degas and Cassatt, and how they influenced each other's style.  I must admit that before this, I had a rather lukewarm reaction to Cassatt's paintings, but not any more.  I got a much better feel for her.

It was particularly interesting to see studies for a painting, or different variations of the same painting.  In the link Callie gave us, look at Women in a Loge, the last picture on page 9, and The Loge, first picture in the 4th row on page 15.

bellamarie

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2014, 06:38:24 PM »
So now we learn Mary has had her paintings rejected while Abigail, her friend in Paris has a showing.  That has to be difficult, yet she goes to support her friend.  Rejection has caused Mary to doubt her talents as an artist.

"Degas provokes and reveals our prejudices.  Wouldn't you like to be good enough to unsettle someone in the same way one day?"  Though "good enough" was a shameful understatement.  Instead, Mary wished she had said, wouldn't you like to be skilled, sensitive, gifted, brilliant, generous enough, all the things that she, Mary, was not.

Then getting the letter from her father telling her, "Enough my dear.  Time to come home.  Come back to Philadelphia and find yourself a husband before it is too late." seems to make her second guess what she is doing in Paris.

  "And at thirty-three, on had to assess.  One had to come to terms.  One had to confront dreams." 

Degas sees Mary sitting on the bench and asks his friend Manet, who she is.  The responses of the two men sure does make me question both of their characters.  A bit of a womanizer in both men I dare say.  Degas describes Mary almost as if he is describing how he would paint her. 

"I meant the elegant woman over there, the one who wears her clothing as if she were the Empress Eugenie herself, come back from England to dazzle us with her finery and impeccable taste.  And mind you, leave her alone.  I spotted her first."  Appreciation spilled from him, and though the woman's eyes were too close together and the shape of her nose was wrong, he admired its misbegotten residence on a face with such magnificent cheekbones.  Those were positively architectural.


JoanP., Yes, I have saved old letters from the past.  As a matter of fact I think I have saved every correspondence my hubby and I sent to each other while dating. They remain in a box in my attic, with a white ribbon tied around the box.  I can't bring myself to part with them.  Just like my journals I have kept along the way.  I am a writer and romantic by nature, so I imagine if anything happened to my hubby and myself my kids would come across them and possibly read them.  I was sorting through my china cabinet yesterday and came across an entire folder of poems I had wrote and submitted for publishing years ago, and the letters of response and awards I received for recognition of excellent work.  I had truly forgotten all about them. 

Maybe Mary and Degas were romantics at heart, and held on to the letters for memories of what could have been or "was."  The letters may be the key, or maybe we will learn everything as we go along to show why they kept them.

My chapters in the downloaded book are numbered beginning with #1 and ends with how many pages are in the chapter.  So in other words the page numbers are not ongoing.  It is difficult to put a page number with a quote so I will try to use the chapter instead. 

Ciao for now~

“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

mrssherlock

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2014, 08:08:18 PM »
Oh!  Those beautiful paintings.  Cassatt as joined my pantheon of artists whose members also include Caravaggio and Van Gogh.

Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

PatH

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2014, 02:08:51 PM »
Quote
Does Degas' painting, "In a Cafe-the Absinthe Drinker" make you uncomfortable, as it did Abigail Alcott?
It doesn't make me feel uncomfortable, but it makes me feel a little sad.  The woman looks so tired and hopeless.  Her shoulders are drooping, her feet are splayed out as though tired, and her eyelids are drooping.  And she's the one drinking absinthe.  Absinthe was popular in arty circles then, but it's pretty lethal; it has a VERY high alcohol content, plus the wormwood that flavors it has a toxic component that supposedly can cause convulsions and madness.  Artists tended to drink themselves to death with it.

You can enlarge the picture in the link in the heading by clicking on it, and it's worth doing.  You can see how good the faces are.  She looks even more tired, or deadened.  He looks contemplative, but his eyes are bloodshot, suggesting the life he leads.

JoanP

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2014, 02:52:35 PM »
Bella, yes, I have a thick packet of old letters from my husband - back in the day - (he didn't save mine!  :D)   But these letters are the only ones Mary Cassett has saved - and those from Degas.  They never married - one another - or any one else!  Is this significant?  Two adults, with no other attachments...but one another?


JoanP

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2014, 03:02:22 PM »
Jackie - where does Degas fit in to your Pantheon of artists?

 PAT - You weren't the only one who felt sad looking at "the Absinthe Drinker."  I read that this painting was "booed off its easel" when shown in Paris under the name of "In a Cafe" in Paris - and not at all well received in London, where it was first called "the Absinthe Drinker."  Obviously the Salon in Paris turned it down - but no one liked it.  
I wish we could have seen it in the National Gallery exhibit the other day - but it wasn't there.  It is in the Musée d'Orsay in Paris. I don't remember any paintings in the exhibit from abroad.  Most seemed to be from collections here in the US.  Pat and Pedln...do you remember any from abroad?  Surprising the number of paintings owned by the Smithsonian National Gallery and the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NY.  There were paintings from other collections in the US too.

More about this painting in the coming chapters...

JoanP

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2014, 03:08:15 PM »
Let's step back from the story and talk about Robin Oliveira's writing in these opening chapters.  Have you noticed her use of the artist's palette in her descriptions - the bitumen and ocher dresses, the Viridian green?  I thought that was quite clever - and look forward to coming chapters to see if she continues this.  She seems to be right there in the midst of the artists, doesn't she?
  Makes you wonder about her background sources - besides the letters...

bitumen ?  I'm not sure.  Any artistes in the room?
ocher - a soft brownish yellow
viridian green - a deep blue green
Vermillion - a brilliant red, scarlet

CallieOK

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2014, 05:34:27 PM »
I Googled "What color is bitumen?"  and only brought up the term as a material that's an alternate to asphalt and comes in several colors.

Then, the term "bituminous coal" came to mind (I don't know why  :D) and I looked it up.  Yes, there is such a thing and, of course, it's black.
Maybe the author means a "shiny black"?

JoanP

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2014, 05:55:05 PM »
Either of those would work in the context the author uses them, Callie, either "asphalt" or black - Thanks!  (Will add it to the vocabulary help link in the heading.  If you find words that you need to look up and they are not in the heading link, please let me know and I'll try to keep up with you!)

"As Mary made her way into the Salon, she felt underdressed in her simple white blouse and blue skirt.  Everywhere, nattily attired men...were guiding women draped in Spring silk of Naples yellow and vermillion...
Their finery sparkled against the dull bitumen and the ocher dresses of the less well off..."

Ms. Oliveira - painting words from an artist's palette?

bellamarie

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2014, 06:26:38 PM »
If you look at the body language of the two figures in the painting, I get the feeling they do not want to be there.  It's as if they have had an unpleasant conversation and are trying very hard to not deal with each other. The woman looks very depressed.  I didn't feel sad looking at the painting, but I did feel sorry for her because the man is totally disinterested in her presence.

PatH.,
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" And she's the one drinking absinthe.  Absinthe was popular in arty circles then, but it's pretty lethal; it has a VERY high alcohol content, plus the wormwood that flavors it has a toxic component that supposedly can cause convulsions and madness.  Artists tended to drink themselves to death with it.

What interesting facts about Absinthe. 

Ciao for now~
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

pedln

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Re: I Always Loved you by Robin Oliveira~ June Book Club Online
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2014, 07:04:02 PM »
Hello all, I just got home this afternoon after a 900 mile two-day drive.  I started a post here and lost it and decided a good night's sleep must first occur.

Callie, what a good source for Mary C's pictures, and JoanK, thanks for the site with the Mary Ellison portraits.  I was really enchanted with her and with The Girl in the Blue Chair.

I feel I'm missing not having the book and will splughe (huh?) if the library does not come through.

More later, but no selfies unless BO gives me some good pointers.