For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online

[BarbStAubrey]

For Love of Lakes
Author ~ Darby Nelson: Aquatic Ecologist, Prof. Emeritus

"Deep feelings of joy, of belonging, envelop me. Boundaries melt, I seem as one with water, rock, and lily, all part of a magnificent whole. ~ Darby Nelson

The spectacular fish is a memory of its past and a vision for a
desired future, an icon to stir human action on behalf of valued
and relatively unspoiled Boreal lakes. ~ John J. Magnuson

We are the landscape of all we have seen. ~ Isamu Naguchi

Welcome ~ Pull up your chair and join us.
We are reading the last section entitled -
 Futurescapes.

If you would like to join us and do not have your book we found that most of the book available to read from the Amazon preview link: For Love of Lakes

Link to, For Love of Lakes and tell us:

• ...about 'your' nearby lake? How clear is the water? Are there wigglies in the water or floating bits? Has algae fouled the water?
• Do you have memories of other lakes - what was special, how large was the lake and did you swim from a beach or fish from a dock or boat?
• What did you know of Lake Agassiz and Louis Agassiz?
• We learned most of our northern lakes and beaches were covered by an ice cap during the ice age. Water from a ghost lake, the ancient Agassiz surged and topped moraine dams, the result of glacier deposits and torrents of waters cut through the till... "huge boulders too large to be moved" accumulated and stopped the downcutting, forming lakes, ponds and rivers while altering the landscape we live with today.
• Do you ever remember drinking directly from a river or lake?
• Is there a quiet spot on your lake where you can hear the wind and the lap of the water?

Darby Nelson is a beautiful writer who adeptly weaves his cast of characters; insects, minuscule lake life, and rocks into a story of interdependence with his cast of birds and plant characters.

One, without the other is not possible and then, he enlightens us to the lake culprits that are draining the oxygen from our lakes, killing our fish and contaminating plants and birds. He tells the story as if a ballet, weaving and floating word pictures that show the beauty of these connections. His book would make a breathtaking movie rather than simply a documentary of facts and problems.

Rather than a list of focus questions, we are reading and sharing the words and information that strike us as well as, photos that further our understanding and enjoyment of the book (as Jane says, of reasonable size - A width of about 400 pixels should do it - need help with that please ask)

Let's continue to share 'our' lake stories and links to sites that make easy the lessons Darby Nelson, ever the teacher, is uncovering in For Love of Lakes

     

Helpful Links:

Dictionary of Glaciation terms with photos: Landforms of Glaciation
A Glossary of terms: Glossary of Glacier Terminology - Text Version
PDF~The Lake as a Microcosm by Stephen A. Forbes (1887)
YouTube - Darby Nelson Tests Lake Water Quality

librivox-Acoustical liberation of books in the public domain
Walden by Henry David Thoreau (1817 - 1862)

Futurescapes is the section discussed this week of September 23, starting this final section on the first day of Autumn

Discussion Leader: Barb

[BarbStAubrey]

Amazing how timing is magical - our neighborhood is fighting a developer who wants an office park with retail and condos built in 15 and more story high buildings to replace a 35 year old office park with buildings that are only 2 and 3 stories high surrounded by lots of natural green space including a host of heritage trees - they are labeled heritage when they measure 29 inches round. There are several reasons the neighborhood does not want to see the zoning change including very over crowded schools with more portable buildings than classes in the main buildings, the problem of additional traffic and the concern for loosing the trees.

Well because of reading this book I was able to share how it is in the watershed for Lady Bird Lake and Lake Austin - all the heavy rains rush to the two creeks that are on either side of our neighborhood where this plot of land is located and it was easy to get the conversation off just an older established neighborhood not wanting change, to if this land is re-zoned then how many other locations along the newly widened road, major artery to town, would request re-zoning leaving us with only a memory of green spaces and heritage trees as we develop a concrete water-slide right down to the lake - I am so pleased to be able to see this, share it and only because of our reading this book - hurrah Darby Nelson.

[ANNIE]

Thought this might interest those of us who have drunk water with glacial milk in it.  My daughter's family had the pleasure of this being in their well water and she said the water really tasted good.  I remember that.  Anyway, here's an interesting link to glacial milk's perks!
http://undergroundhealthreporter.com/longevity-glacial-milk/#axzz3kiS81TuV[/b]

My daughter lives in Ithaca, NY and they had a very similar problem with big box businesses being built on ? where the runoff was appropriate for that area.  But, the city council, of course, voted to approve new zoning.  So, not only taking business from the downtown area of Ithaca (now a newly restored commons is hoping to improve business for
downtown) but the runoff is worse.  Could cause flooding on rainy days.

[BarbStAubrey]

interesting Ann - I had no idea anyone could get glacier water - I see there is a Dr. Flanagan who espouses drinking glacier water and has developed a way to imitate the benefits and sells both water and a powder that has the extra hydrogenated ability of glacier water.   

[BarbStAubrey]

back a bit later - been a week I cannot believe - getting a house ready for sale and the sellers are 3 siblings all out of the area and one out of state - they all have to agree and we had a hiccup with an inspector who could not follow through - to change inspectors I might just as well have been attempting to bring peace to Syria - each of the siblings are at a different stage with their grief - one in particular is hanging on to what was - oh oh oh -

I am attempting to see this experience and relate it to how we understand and take care of our waterways - the only thing I can think of is we would like to go back to the simple life when our waterways were naturally clear without much effort on our part - I wonder if part of this has to do with the increase in population we have seen these last 40 years that all want to play in and around the water as well as the increase in the numbers of people with the where with all to purchase waterfront property so that we cannot go back - like it or not we must learn well enough to share with those who do not read or study the changes we must make to our simple daily lifestyle in order to have the clear and healthy water we once enjoyed.

Well onward - back later today...

[BarbStAubrey]

Such a balanced thinker as he contemplates his choice of collage those many years ago while gazing at the UW waterfront pondering the road not traveled however, by staying at UM he met his wife and with that realization says, "Serendipity works in wonderful ways."

Also his explanation of problems supported by unknowing home owners he suggests is like flushing away and therefore not seeing what is everyday waste.

This followed in the heading of the next chapter the quote from Thoreau seems so right...
What if all the ponds were shallow? Would it not react on the minds of men?

And this bit is a wonder of learning - "...different till, different chemical makeup, different lake chemistries. Different lake chemistries yield different lake behavior. I find the logic compelling."

Now more than ever I 'need' to find out more about the lakes near me as well as the two creeks - no glacier in this part of North America so how, where, when, what is the makeup - the lakes are simply the river damed but the creeks are another story.

[PatH]

From what we see of Geri in the book, it was worth going to the slightly worse school to find her.

Interesting about the glacial water.  I couldn't figure out what kind of hydrogen he thought was in it.  All water is 11% hydrogen by weight, and his explanation of what's special here is too simplified to be scientifically clear.

[JoanK]

There was a show on the Discovery Channel about the boatmen who collect this glacial water. Their port is in Maine. They motor out to the glacier. They need a chunk of ice that has "calved" from the glacier but is not too large for their equipment to handle. To get this, they fire bullets into the glacier or a large iceberg in such a way as to cause the glacier to split at that point. It is very dangerous, since they only seem to have a rough idea of how to do this, if they cause a major "calving", they could get caught.

if there are pieces of the right size, they scoop them up on deck with a kind of net arrangement. Again, dangerous, since they have to be quite close to the iceberg. It takes all day, and there is a limit to how much they can carry back, hence how much they can earn in a day.

So if glacier water is expensive, you can see why. If it really catches on, someone will figure out a way to mass harvest it, with who knows what effect on the planet.

[PatH]

It doesn't really belong in this discussion, because I'm sure it's been highly engineered, but I have to share a pond that's a big presence in my life now.  It's in the Japanese garden in Portland, OR, and it's wonderfully peaceful.  That's a real duck, so perfectly placed on the rock; he very obligingly posed for me.

[PatH]

There are places where you can catch odd glimpses of it:

[PatH]

I'm sure the water quality is carefully controlled, as the connecting water is full of koi.  It's not clear, though.

You don't get the kind of peace you do with a natural setting, but you do get a very contemplative peace.

[ANNIE]

PatH, I have. Seen that pond in the Japanese garden.  The duck wasn't there.😃  I have some pics of the combed rocks too.  Peaceful!😍

[PatH]

He was probably on his lunch break.

[BarbStAubrey]

It is a lovely setting isn't it - so green -

Years ago I was attempting various features of the Japanese garden in my back yard and had a lantern on a low oblong shaped rock at the end of a fence line of growing nandina that look like miniature bamboo - within a few years the deer ended up knocking the lantern and in time the cap broke but the base is still there -

I did not really know what I was doing. Just took features of what I knew about a Japanese garden and attempted to incorporate them into the backyard. Since then I read a few books and learned that everything in the Japanese garden is a miniature version of either a well known mountain or the shape of hats worn by royalty or a miniature of nearby scenery. The ponds that in Tiji Itoh's book Space & Illusion says the are called basins and are shaped to resemble various forms of dress often to copy the shape of a woman's kimono sleeve. And so you've peaked my curiosity and I wonder more about this garden in Portland -

I never did get to see it although my youngest lived outside of Portland for 3 years - we went into Portland and drove through a large beautifully landscaped park and walked the banks of the river running through town that was choked with floating timber after a storm - and I remember visiting the zoo with the boys who were quite young - they started school in Beaverton where they lived and the walk meant going to the end of their cul-de-sac through a piece of forest with gigantic trees coming out across the street from the school. What a glorious way to start the day...

I too wonder how they keep the water clear - but then maybe it is not such a puzzle after all since the koi is an ornamental variety of domesticated common carp and carp are used to help rid Algae and Hydrilla from a lake it may be the koi that keeps the pond/basin clear.

A site that talks about Hydrilla - the damage it causes and the cures that have been adopted.
UT-Hydrilla-known as Indian star vine

Here is a map showing where Hydrilla has spread in the lakes and rivers of the US

[nlhome]

I don't have the book, so I'm reading the bits and pieces on Amazon, when I can. I chuckled at the bit about Madison, WI and the author's option to stay in Minnesota. When my son was a student at UW Madison, he was advised to leave for his advanced studies and research to get exposure at another school, so he ended up at the University of Minnesota. But while he was a student at Madison, we had lots of opportunity to see the lakes there, including Mendota, which is definitely part of the city's essence and especially the University. Madison is a city of 4 lakes.

We live in the "driftless area" and are only about 50 miles from Madison.

[PatH]

Nlhome, my husband did his graduate work at UW Madison--chemistry--and the lakes were a big deal for him.  I only know them by name--I didn't meet him until later--and only remember Menona and Mendota, but he knew them all.  When he moved here, the Washington, DC area, he didn't bother to wear an overcoat all winter for a few years until he got soft.

[PatH]

I really like the story of Ray Lindeman, whose seminal paper systematized ecology, and changed the direction of people's thought.  People realized for the first time just how completely organisms are dependent on each other.  Everybody and every creature matters.

His paper was his PhD work, and journal editors refused to publish it, saying it was too outlandish and not well thought out.  He revised and amplified it, but he was very ill at the time, and died at the age of 26, while the paper was in press.  He didn't see the great enthusiasm that greeted it, nor how much it changed people's thinking.

Initial disbelief is a common reaction to groundbreaking research, and this presents a problem for the rest of us, non-scientists or scientists in different fields.  How do you tell whether the latest newsworthy breakthrough, or some new theory that people are arguing about, is real, or misguided or crackpot?  There's no easy answer except to be skeptical, look at the arguments closely, and wait for more evidence.

By the way, this chapter tells us how old Nelson is, since Lindeman died in 1942, and Nelson was one year old at the time.

[BarbStAubrey]

Yes, the story of Ray Lindeman fit the sense of this book doesn't it - I think that is what I am getting as I read this - how everything is connected - there is that proverb about the universe which can be envisioned in one grain of sand - Back later - class this morning and early afternoon.

[BarbStAubrey]

A treat folks - we have an email from Darby Nelson's wife - an amazing email that talks directly to a few of us who are posting - this is wonderful to learn the author is reading our efforts and wants to comment - here we go - I may brake it into more than one post...

Dear Barb and all the participants in SeniorLearn,
What a delight it has been to read your comments on For Love of Lakes and applications to your own lives.  I read them every few days and share things with Darby that I know will encourage him.  I didn’t sign in so haven’t been able to make comments myself, but know Barb will be happy to post some for me.

Your obvious enjoyment of the book is so gratifying.  When Darby was beginning to write the book, he took some classes at the Loft Literary Center in Minneapolis.  After one class his teacher called him aside and said, “Do you want people to read your book?” Pause, “You need to know that people want to read about people.” Darby did a 90 degree turn from gathering and presenting all the facts to creative non-fiction, and that has made all the difference.  The power of personal story makes complex scientific material accessible to everyone—scientists and nonscientists alike.
 
PatH, many people have told us that they had to read For Love of Lakes slowly to savor the language and process small pieces at a time. A friend of mine told me that For Love of Lakes reads like a love story.  She also read it twice, Barb, and then went back to her favorite chapters to read again.  My folks read the manuscript before they passed away in 2011 and loved it, but, like you, didn’t understand everything.  Unfortunately they didn’t have the access to the internet to look up explanations.

Ice Fishing discussion: I have to share the video of my dad’s 101st Birthday Party on ice.  He fished Sweeney Lake almost every day after retirement and every weekend before.  This video went viral and was broadcast on Good Morning America the next day. My cousin in Texas (of cockroach fame) saw her uncle that morning!  You will see Darby and me as well. 
http://archive.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=894032

Barb, your argument about water quality issues in the watershed on the re-zoning request warmed our hearts.  Although Darby tried hard not to preach, that kind of activism was always a major goal of the book.  Yeah, Barb!

Nlhome, Darby was advised to go to a different school to broaden his perspective as well, and you bet I’m glad he stayed in Minnesota—certainly not an inferior school, however!  We met at the U of MN’s Itasca Biology Station over a leech that had 100 babies attached to her abdomen—a great story to tell our students when studying hermaphrodites (reproductive organs of both sexes in one animal, common in invertebrates).

Barb and Pat, Darby taught me to sit quietly on the edge of a shallow lake, stream, or pool for a number of minutes and stare into the water.  After awhile the tiny creatures will become visible and you might see slow moving larvae or fast darters.  Patience can be very rewarding!

[BarbStAubrey]

MKaren, it thrills us to hear that you learn something new on every page, but are sad that you hate wild rice!  Harvesting is zen-like!   We went ricing this Labor Day and the day after with Todd and my cousin, Louise. Todd is the only person who has dumped Darby in the lake while ricing.  Last year neither Louise or I could go, so he and Darby riced together again.  Twice Darby went in the drink. Todd leans way over with his long arms to get more rice, while I get only the rice that is close to the canoe.  We don’t process the rice ourselves; there are processors who get very busy at this time of the year, especially in a good rice year like this one.  We got 47 pounds of finished rice from 104 pounds green off the lake.

We certainly did get many a laugh when Darby was writing about Daphnia. Aren’t they delightful animals? Here are some pictures:
https://www.google.com/search?q=daphnia+pics&oq=Daphnia+pi&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.11239j1j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
The one with the blue background we use in our PowerPoint shows. I wish we could get all of you together to hear Darby speak!  We have had 153 events with this book and have talked to over 9,000 people.

Barb, that you consider Darby’s writing better than Rachel Carson’s is a real compliment. Nlhome’s son and PatH’s husband, will be familiar with Aldo Leopold and his Sand County Almanac. The editor at Michigan State University Press called For Love of Lakes the Sand County Almanac of lakes, which blew us away. When we visited Leopold’s shack in Sand Co., Wisconsin, and viewed the mini museum there, I had to agree with her that Darby’s book expands Leopold’s Land Ethic to the water.

http://www.aldoleopold.org/AldoLeopold/almanac.shtml

JoanK, Darby often asks his audiences when giving lake talks, “How many of you live on a watershed?”  It’s disheartening that many people don’t realize that we all do. You hit the nail on the head when you said, “We need to protect all water sources then: not just the biggest, but the smallest as well.”

Barb, thanks for the map of Hydrilla. I’ve saved it for use in future talks.

Thanks for your interest in For Love of Lakes.  Your enthusiasm for learning is so inspiring!
Geri Nelson
Darby’s Paddling Companion for Life

[JoanK]

What a wonderful surprise! And I can see from the video that you are as enthusiastic in person as on paper. (And I can also see where you get it from!)

[BarbStAubrey]

The letter from Geri Nelson is so full of life and of positive connections to the lakes they know and the environmental community like, Aldo Leopold that is a sharp contrast to reading how home owners on Diamond lake, as home owners on many lakes, are wanting their concept of beauty. They remind me of someone who is anorexic - they will starve the lake of aquatic plants to achieve their inner vision of beauty that does not hold a foothold in reality, no different than the anorexic who no longer sees beauty in a healthy body.

The movie clip of Geri's dad ice fishing was for me a gift - Seeing a family enjoying themselves was a treat but more - it never occurred to me that there would be YouTube examples of ice fishing and here it is - what fishing in the ice looks like and how it is done - those were big fish that wriggle out of that hole - I wonder now what the temperature is of the water below the ice and what kind of fish can live 24/7 in that kind of cold - but then I really would not want to be in the cold to ice fish or live daily in the kind of cold that allows a lake to freeze over. To each his own...

Tomorrow we start the last section of the book - I did get behind this week and so I need to use the rest of the evening to catch up. So far, reading the book makes me want to find out more and more about the nearby lakes - with the drought and the usual, a city filled with folks who only see their needs, begrudging the rice farmers down river the water they need.  Traditionally extra water is supplied by opening the flood gates for an annual spill. I am wondering if the rice is more than simply a group of farmers that according to some in this town are getting rich on the water needed in Austin or is there something more - is the rice actually what helps to keep the Colorado River healthy enough so that our lakes are a fit resource.

[BarbStAubrey]

Before we leave this section - learning the meaning of Limnology opens another avenue of research - Limnology: the scientific study of bodies of fresh water, as lakes and ponds, with reference to their physical, geographical, biological, and other features.

Somehow I knew Ornithology: the scientific study of birds. Not scientific but it lovely noticing the birds that visit the backyard - my friend Charlotte, who died in April had feeders attached to the big window she had installed in the Breakfast area where she spent most of her time at the table - she had other feeders hanging in the trees - a tiny titmouse visited and an array of humming birds along with the usual doves, cardinals, bluejays, black cow birds, and various vireos that would scrounge among the flower pots on the patio and the pile of leaves.

[BarbStAubrey]

But most enlightening was what happens if you ingest mercury - I had heard it was in fish and not good to eat but did not know what it did to the body - this was enlightening. And that Mercury atoms can ride the winds for a year before Landing!!! Holy Hannah... talk about the butterfly affect in the Chaos Theory where the air movement from a butterfly in Madagascar affects our weather here in North America. 

[BarbStAubrey]

Right off the bat we are introduced to more geology in Shield Lakes Icon

The Precambrian Shield - also known as the Canadian Shield or Laurentian Plateau, covers about half of Canada as well as most of Greenland and part of the northern United States; an area of 4.4 million square kilometers

Nice web site
http://www.canadianshieldfoundation.ca/?page_id=39

And fun - here is a quiz based on the Precambrian Shield
http://www.glencoe.com/qe/scienceOLC.php?qi=7204

Based on the McGraw-Hill text for High School Students

Here is the section on Precambrian Shield
http://tinyurl.com/nqpcrm2

[BarbStAubrey]

Well learning now all about cold water fish and the difference between Bass and Trout - I won't even shop for fish in the market the same way after reading this book.

[gerinelson]

Barb, Water in the winter lake is just about 32 degrees and never gets any colder. On a cold night, the temperature of the water just under the ice drops below the freezing point and more ice forms. 

My dad never wanted a fish house because he couldn't move easily to where the fish were. One -20 degree day out on the ice a neighbor walked out to see who was crazy enough to be out in that weather!  A compulsive fisherman, indeed!

Obviously, I was able to register and log on successfully to SeniorLearn.

[BarbStAubrey]

Hurray Geri - so glad to see you among us - oh this is just wonderful to see that you actually logged on - if you are a reader there are other discussion groups you may want to join - in the meantime we are so glad to see you posting here with us...

Geri you mentioned that you and Darby have completed many many talks - I'm curious although there was some outrageous number you shared like 9000 can you tell us where some of the talks were given - were there many in other parts of the country and did the talks come about before or after the book was published?

[ginny]

Welcome, Geri! We at SeniorLearn are so proud to have you here.  Even tho I haven't been posting, I do own the book,  and have enjoyed reading it, and the discussion about it here SO much!

No matter what the stress of the day,  I can pick up that book and almost be in another world.  It's almost poetic.  I wanted to at least say that much and how much I admire the way it's written and in reading your own thoughts here. And I've learned SO much from it.

Absolutely loved the DVD of your dad on his 101st birthday, thank you so much for sharing that with us. What a wonderful lovely supportive  family you have. Just the most  incredible experience for us.

Thank you so much.

[JoanK]

WELCOME, WELCOME, GERRI. I'm glad you like our little site. It's the best place I know for intelligent discussion with great friends.

32 degrees is plenty cold enough to give you hypothermia in seconds should you fall in. But I assume up there you all know the ice well enough to avoid that.

I now have a whole new respect for wild rice. How do you feel about those who want to find a way to grow it commercially?

[JoanK]

Haven't read the new chapter yet. Up to now, I've avoided thinking too much about plate tectonics. Since I've moved to California near the San Andreas fault, it's a scary subject for me. I've experienced a few mild earthquakes since I've been here: we are advised all the time to be earthquake prepared. (I'm more scared than the natives, who seem to take earthquakes for granted).

As I understand it, the earthquakes are due to the fact that we live in an  area where two plates are grinding past each other.

[BarbStAubrey]

JoanK - the book is talking about the lakes created in the area of the Precambrian Shield and the fish in those lakes - so far I have not read anything about earthquakes and I am up to the chapter on Raindrops - so I think it is safe for you to read and not be reminded of what is uncomfortable or actually down right scary.

Having read a few other websites it seems the entirety of the North American continent is divided into areas that were historically formed during one of the named times in pre-history and they do not follow the plates but are a separate grouping of earth formation.

here is a nice website with a map showing the various areas that it seems if I am reading it correctly that each area came about because of the earth forming a crust after cooling and or because of the ice age and the glacier activity on the earth.

http://www.thisoldearth.net/Geology_Online-1_Subchapters.cfm?Chapter=8&Row=2

[BarbStAubrey]

this is another really nice web site about lakes within the ancient Canadian Shield which we know is another name for the Precambrian Shield

http://www.britannica.com/place/Canadian-Shield

[gerinelson]

We have had 153 events with For Love of Lakes, all but two after the book came out.  He has talked to 9000+ people.  I've just reviewed our calendar of events and relived the great fun we have had with this book. We have talked to many lake associations and environmental groups, which we expected, but also to schools and colleges, senior and church groups, nature centers, libraries, book stores, service groups, book clubs, radio interviews (including MN Public Radio Midday program), and lake conferences in Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Indiana, Wisconsin, and Minnesota as well as the North American Lake Management Society Conference. Wisconsin trains 28 Lake Leaders every other year and for the last two rounds, For Love of Lakes was required reading. We were able to meet with them at the first of three retreats and talk about the book and lake issues. What a high it was to see their enthusiasm for bettering lakes in Wisconsin!

[PatH]

I've been traveling, so I'm behind both in reading and posting, but now I'm settled in my Portland hidey hole and can catch up.

Geri, thank you for joining our discussion, and sharing so much.  Where to start?

I love the video of your father.  His quality shines out, doesn't it.  Makes a person want to know him.  I was surprised at how small the ice hole is.  Do you often catch a fish too big to pull through?

Those Daphnia pictures are gorgeous.  I started out as a Zoology major, but switched to Chemistry, so it's been 60 years since I've looked at one.  It's still fun.

[BarbStAubrey]

Wow Geri - you just wrote what needs to be included as a review in Amazon - That kind of interest from all those various speaking engagements is fabulous - it sounds like you are far more than a paddling partner and are equally involved in the work of educating folks to what is 'the' lake.

I wonder if the LCRA is part of or if there is a separate group that is part of the North American Lake Management Society. Since the LCRA is the caretaker of the chain of lakes, in fact the entire river from its source south of Lubbock to Matagorda Bay on the Gulf, I wonder what and how the affiliation. Hmm

The North American Lake Management Society website - http://www.nalms.org/

As an organization the Society is about 10 years old and individuals can join as Electronic Lake Leader Member with access to a Lifetime subscription to our monthly e-newsletter - at this level the annual membership fee is $40 - that is buying 10 years of newsletters as well as a year's subscription to the magazine.

Thought I would look to see if there was a group or society focused on Creeks. I did find there is a River Management Society and when I did not see Texas Represented one thing led to another and it appears the state is into Wetlands especially as it relates to Birds.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_bk_w7000_1691_07_11.pdf

Since most of the lakes we have talked about that are located near our home or that we remember from childhood are part of a river system, knowing more about rivers would be logical - the link to the River Management Society

http://www.river-management.org/

Reading further it appears the State of Texas legally owns all the waterways - I wonder if that includes wet weather creeks on private land? I also wonder if all the waterways in every state is public through state ownership? It did go on to say how some property owners are given various rights to the water. Too much legal to read now but I bet that gives a rancher rights to water that flows through his property. OH my a river of questions pop up - like during our often flash floods is the waterway running through a ranch covered by insurance or does the state step in - since all clean up seems to be either volunteer or out of a city budget - goodness this goes on and on doesn't it.

[BarbStAubrey]

PatH sounds like you are taking advantage of every minute to be with your family - Portland, talk about a river - the Columbia is some river - have you had a chance to drive into the mountains yet and to see the river stretched out. We never did get to the gorge - have you had the chance to see it? I am imagining lots of roadside stands on the way out of town selling berries and the fall crop of apples. Have the leaves started to turn yet?

Looks like Portland has 8 nearby lakes
http://www.pdxmonthly.com/articles/2012/7/17/best-nw-swimming-holes-august-2012

The article includes a photo of the swimming area at 387-acre Moulton Falls Regional Park - it looks less manicured with two miles of trails along the Lewis River bank and get this, a 3 story high arch bridge used to jump off into the river. How much fun is that.

Hmm not sure of the 43 degree water temperature - think I will pass on that one at Opal pool in the Willamette National Forest - pretty but oh dear - I can feel the goose bumps and the shivers from here.
http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/willamette/recreation/recarea/?recid=4212

Geri you just opened another flood of curiosities - and on another note I found this wonderment...
http://geology.com/lakes-rivers-water/texas.shtml

which is connected to
http://geology.com/

which is further connected to this great site - prepared for teachers but a way to learn having little knowledge of geology much less any of the earth sciences.
http://www.americangeosciences.org/critical-issues

[JoanK]

BARB: one of your sites deals with preserving wetlands. that is a whole different can of worms, and probably beyond this discussion. The issues are different: most wetlands (swamps, bogs etc.) are not useful to humans, as lakes are, so some developer always wants to drain them, with disastrous effects on all the wildlife that depends on them. The little marsh in my town has only been preserved with massive efforts by all the citizens. And THEN start all the pollution problems.

As a bird lover, I am concerned with this problem. I'm not sure, however, how draining wetlands affects the watershed.

[JoanK]

Thinking about what I wrote above, we hear a lot more about preserving wetlands than we do preserving lakes. In a perfect world, they wouldn't be in competition with each other, but we don't live in a perfect world: people only have so much time, energy, enthusiasm, and money.

I guess thinking that something might be completely destroyed (as in draining a wetland) packs more emotional punch than thinking that something (a lake) is slowly getting worse. And it gives a clear goal (save the wetland!) which can be achieved in a relatively short time, and celebrated.

We don't have any lakes in our town. We do have a very polluted sea shore. There are some citizen clean up efforts, but the problems are on such a large scale, it's hard to know how to get involved.

[nlhome]

Geri, welcome, thank you for participating. I loved the video of your father and the ice fishing - brought back memories. I fished with my dad when I was young, and he continue fishing on the ice until he died in his 80's.