Author Topic: Dead Wake by Erik Larson - October Book Club Online (Read 68642 times)

BooksAdmin · « **on:** September 06, 2015, 12:11:54 PM »

The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.

October Book Club Online

Dead Wake
by Erik Larson

"Few tales in history are more haunting, more tangled with investigatory mazes or more fraught with toxic secrets than that of the final voyage of the Lusitania, one of the colossal tragedies of maritime history. It’s the other Titanic, the story of a mighty ship sunk not by the grandeur of nature but by the grimness of man." - ~ New York Times.

DISCUSSION SCHEDULE:

Week 1: to "Lusitania a Cavalcade of Passengers" p.89
Week 2: to "Lusitania: Helpful Young Ladies: p.191
Week 3: to "All Points Rumor p. 279
Week 4: to end p.353

Larson describes his research as "quiet moments of revelation where past and present for an instant joined and history became a tactile thing. I live for these moments."

Discussion Leaders: Ella & JoanK

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #1 on:** September 13, 2015, 07:39:38 PM »

Welcome, welcome. I hope everyone has a book by now. This is very exciting, Larson keeps you enthralled with the action and the characters - its a thriller actually the way he writes. Its submarines and huge ships and wealthy people and courageous people, Woodrow Wilson, the threat of Germany and war, and HISTORY of the early 20th century.

So much to talk about, so come aboard, join the ship, introduce yourself as we leave the harbor and cross the ocean! Do you have your deck shoes packed, your evening clothes, earrings, perfume. Who knows who you might meet!

JoanK · « **Reply #2 on:** September 13, 2015, 07:41:52 PM »

What a story!!! We all know about the Titanic, but this story is even more dramatic! The luxury ship on its proud way, the submarine waiting, stalking. The people on the sideline who accidently (?) lured the submarine there. The President who was busy falling in love. And all the people whose lives were changed.

It will be a while til we set sail. We have to meet the characters, and ready this huge ship (a LOT of work). So if you need more fancy clothes (or work clothes if you'd rather be on the submarine), you have time. Meanwhile, pull up a chair and a cold drink, and join us on this adventure. Would you prefer lemonade or sweet tea? (Or something stronger?)

PatH · « **Reply #3 on:** September 14, 2015, 12:16:14 AM »

I have the book already, and I'll be ready to sail. No submarine for me--too cramped. I'll travel in style.

The book looks really good.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #4 on:** September 14, 2015, 02:49:02 PM »

Hi PatH - yes, it's a good book, he certainly keeps your interest alive all through the book. Who knew? We're happy you are here to join in this adventure.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #5 on:** September 14, 2015, 09:12:46 PM »

Do not have my book yet - but this looks like a riveting story.

PatH · « **Reply #6 on:** September 14, 2015, 10:32:18 PM »

Hi, Barb. I hope you get your book. This looks good, and your nautical expertise will add to your enjoyment.

Halcyon · « **Reply #7 on:** September 14, 2015, 11:45:51 PM »

Hi everyone. I have my book. I'll take a deck chair, a gin and tonic and a good book to read! Bon voyage.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #8 on:** September 15, 2015, 01:11:56 AM »

Enjoy your Gin and tonic and sunning yourself on your deck chair Halcyon because it may have been a lot of backbreaking smelly work but I think I'll put my dibs in for sailing as a fisherman on the Wanderer -

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #9 on:** September 15, 2015, 09:33:02 AM »

Happy that you'll be onboard HALCYON! We can promise the "good book to read" but the drinks are up to you.

Cute BARBARA! Knowing what we now know, you would be very smart to be aboard that little sailing vessel. Knowing what we now know, you wouldn't be in that ocean at all, on any boat. Those German submarines are cruising and have orders to torpedo anything; would be frightening.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #10 on:** September 16, 2015, 09:48:14 AM »

Just to get our timelines right, here are two disasters at sea which took place before WWI. Which one is the most familiar to you?

The White Star Line (Titanic in 1912) The Cunard Shipping Co. (Lusitania in 1915)-

Halcyon · « **Reply #11 on:** September 16, 2015, 01:39:26 PM »

The Titanic.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #12 on:** September 16, 2015, 02:11:04 PM »

I did not learn about the Titanic till I was older and in school - it was always presented as a romanticized story of a ship that hit an iceberg. However, being of German background and a great grandfather who was a merchant and my father knowing some of those who ran Cunard I heard about the Lusitania as a small child and the loss of life and the efforts to save those adrift by small fishing vessels.

Lots of adult conversation on long Sunday afternoon walks between my father, mother, grandmother and my mother's sister and her husband, who was from Switzerland, over Bismark, Maximilian Joseph and Kaiser Wilhelm - most went over my head but I remember names and voices supporting or defending - my mother, aunt and grandmother's people were from Bavaria and the Black Forest where as, my father's people were from Hanover, Baden and Hamburg - they would all agree on the Prussian leadership of Bismark but to my grandmother the Kaiser was a land grabber and thought Maximilian Joseph as weak but more fair than the hard nose Kaiser. And then all the events that were part of nineteenth century, not yet unified Germany were argued about.

JoanK · « **Reply #13 on:** September 16, 2015, 06:21:55 PM »

BARB: how interesting. These are bits of history I'm totally unfamiliar with.

I'm probably the only one who never saw the movie Titanic. But even without seeing it, there was a lot of Titanic information floating around at the time it came out.

JoanK · « **Reply #14 on:** September 16, 2015, 06:39:16 PM »

Of course those are not the only tragedies involving ocean liners. We probably all remember the Andrea Dorea in 1956. Here is a description of that accident:

http://www.pbs.org/lostliners/andrea.html

It's lying where divers can easily reach it.

There was also one of those large cruise ships that tilted over a few years ago: I forget its name.

JoanK · « **Reply #15 on:** September 16, 2015, 06:45:04 PM »

Here is another one that I had never heard of until I read a mystery story a few months ago that involved it in the plot. The Empress of Ireland sank in the Saint Lawrence river in 1914 before it even reached the Atlantic. Almost as many lives were lost as on the Lusitania.

http://www.pbs.org/lostliners/empress.html

JoanK · « **Reply #16 on:** September 16, 2015, 06:51:47 PM »

The lost liner site above gives comparisons between the 5 disasters it discusses. (The fifth is the Britannic, which I had never heard of. It was Titanic's younger sister and was actually bigger than the Titanic! It had been turned into a hospital ship, and sunk in 1916 from an explosion, probably either a German mine or a torpedo. Lessons had been learned from the Titanic, loading the lifeboats was orderly, and loss of life amazingly small.)

All of the five disasters but the Andrea Dorea occurred between 1912 and 1916. I guess later liners were better designed?

http://www.pbs.org/lostliners/chart.html

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #17 on:** September 16, 2015, 10:30:51 PM »

I am sorta remembering the Normandie a French liner - I think if I remember it sank and then was brought dockside in NY and set on fire - do not remember the details but it was a ship that was similar to but not quite as large as the Queen Mary before the QE 1 or 2 and as a kid I had a postcard of the Normandie dockside.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #18 on:** September 17, 2015, 11:47:37 AM »

The unification of Germany is a course of study in itself and it didn't happen until 1857, which isn't that long ago (http://www.flowofhistory.com/units/eme/18/FC121); all these small states getting their act together to make a whole. And then 50-70 years leashing war and more war on the European continent which eventually involved the whole world.

So, Barbara, I can easily understand the adults in your family discussing all of this and its amazing you remember it all.

I saw the movie Titanic with Leonardo Di Caprio - always wondered if anyone ever called him just Leo. I knew about the actual ship sinking; perhaps in some history class.

The causes of war are interesting subjects to study and we will get into what effect the Lusitania had on America and WWI as we discuss the book together.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #19 on:** September 17, 2015, 12:15:29 PM »

Someone needs to explain to me again (I heard it eons ago) how the salty ocean winds down the rivers (specifically the St. Lawrence) and dumps into the great lakes and becomes fresh water. So how does it happen?

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #20 on:** September 17, 2015, 12:38:44 PM »

Ella it is the other way round - the fresh water meets the sea and where they meet there is a brackish area where they combine - we usually call that area the estuary

As to the creation of Germany - they really did not get their act together and decide to join together - the end of WWI had to do with some of the smaller nation-states like Baden incorporated into Germany and various kings lost power however, Prussia was ALWAYS a waring nation - it is where the Hessian soldiers came from that were in our Revolution - fighting was their main national source of income - the flat marshy land was not a natural for farming and all the way back to the days of the Saxons and other tribes Prussia was the center of warfare that included the northern areas bordering the Baltic where the Vikings at first raided and then freely mixed and married - been interested in this history as it related to Rome when this was the area of the Vandals and the Goths.

Many of the Germans who came here in the 1830s and early 40s were escaping jail for their public revolutionary outcry or disgusted that a promised democracy was absconded by royalty and also, little is known but when Ireland experienced its potato crop failure it came on the heals of the potato crop failure in what is now southern Germany.

Have not read enough to put it together - I do know that the Kaiser was compared unfavorably to his father however, my question is if this was the way the Kaiser believed he could cement relations with all these small nation states, if they would all get behind an initiative and being a Prussian the only initiative he would know would be war - Bismark gets into this and he was smart and if my family was any thermometer he was also popular - so I am not sure how much of the rational for WWI is included in the book but for all practical purposes the west considered the sinking of the Lusitania the straw that broke the camels back.

PatH · « **Reply #21 on:** September 17, 2015, 05:09:12 PM »

Barb's right. The fresh water of the lakes is flowing out of them into the Saint Lawrence River. Backwash of ocean water is sloshing into the river at its mouth, helped by the tides, and the salinity is carried surprisingly far upstream.

http://www.ores.ch/index.php/research/studysite/thestlawrence

marjifay · « **Reply #22 on:** September 18, 2015, 08:22:42 PM »

I can't drink anything stronger than ginger ale while I'm reading or I fall asleep, even with a book as interesting as this one.

Larson is a very good writer.

I've enjoyed taking trips on cruise ships, especially the one to Alaska on the Princess line. Thankfully, none of my cruises were anywhere near a war zone.

Marj

PatH · « **Reply #23 on:** September 19, 2015, 12:12:36 AM »

Quote from: marjifay on September 18, 2015, 08:22:42 PM

I can't drink anything stronger than ginger ale while I'm reading or I fall asleep, even with a book as interesting as this one.

Maybe coffee?

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #24 on:** September 19, 2015, 11:48:41 AM »

Hi MARJ! Just don't drink at all, we're going slowly though the book; you'll have time to drink plenty when you finish our assigned pages.

Thanks to all for your comments!

A picture, as they say, is worth a thousand words - look how mammoth this ship was, just huge. I would have felt secure, wouldn't you?

http://www.historytoday.com/blog/2015/05/video-last-footage-lusitania

Some of this is amusing. Paying a taxi with coins? What else in the news reel is interesting?

PatH · « **Reply #25 on:** September 19, 2015, 01:45:23 PM »

The newsreel is a real find, Ella. It's always nifty to see live footage from so long ago. I was amused by the coins too. Did you notice how the taxis lurched when turning on the cobbles? and that all the gentlemen were dressed almost the same?

The deck space seems surprisingly non-luxurious, but indeed, the ship looks well-fortified.

JoanK · « **Reply #26 on:** September 19, 2015, 05:31:24 PM »

Yes, it looked much more nuts and bolts than modern cruise ships, or even the Queen Mary.

That was kind of creepy. Some of those people are characters we'll meet in the book.

The hats! And I'd forgotten that women still wore long skirts. That must have made it hard for those who fell in the water! (If it was daytime when the boat went down.)

PatH · « **Reply #27 on:** September 19, 2015, 06:03:37 PM »

Quote from: JoanK on September 19, 2015, 05:31:24 PM

And I'd forgotten that women still wore long skirts. That must have made it hard for those who fell in the water! (If it was daytime when the boat went down.)

One of my college classmates learned to swim from her grandmother. Someone asked her, what was that peculiar flip at the end of her kick. She didn't know, she just copied what she was shown. So she asked her grandmother. "Oh, that's how you keep your bathing dress from tangling up your ankles."

nlhome · « **Reply #28 on:** September 23, 2015, 07:25:51 PM »

I have a copy of the book. It's a big book. Interesting, though.

JoanK · « **Reply #29 on:** September 23, 2015, 07:51:43 PM »

WELCOME, NLHOME!
The book itself is about 340 pages, a little longer than a mystery story. The rest is notes and bibliography, which we aren't going to read.. Non-fiction books always look much longer than they are because of this documentation: necessary for scholars and to keep the author honest, but not for us casual readers. I think you'll find it goes fast.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #30 on:** September 24, 2015, 10:11:28 PM »

Yes, it is - "interesting" NLHOME! Happy to welcome you.

A quote from the New York Times Review of the book:

“He’s the master of making us forget the history we think we already know,” said Amanda Cook, Mr. Larson’s editor at Crown. “It’s this extraordinary ability to build suspense when we all know how it’s going to end.”

Mr. Larson steeps himself in facts, but he seems to model his narrative arcs and prose style on fiction. He lists the crime writers Raymond Chandler and Dashiell Hammett as influences. He’s completed four novels, which he is determined to keep unpublished. His standard writing routine — an elaborate set of rituals inspired partly by the novelist Graham Greene — involves getting up around 4:30 a.m. to work with the goal of writing a single page a day. He sits at his computer with coffee and an Oreo cookie, or two if it’s a bad day, he says. He always stops in the middle of paragraphs or sentences, so that he knows exactly where to pick up. He maintains this strict regimen seven days a week, 364 days a year, taking only Christmas off, he says.

Does anyone remember this Erik Larson book discussion of 2004? (from our archives)

http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/DevilintheWhiteCity.html

JoanK · « **Reply #31 on:** September 25, 2015, 05:04:13 PM »

I wasn't in that discussion, but it's been mentioned many times since as a good one.

Another ship sinking story was presented on Public Television here by NOVA: "The Arctic Ghost Ship." t's the story of uncovering what happened to an expedition led by John Franklen in 1845 that was lost looking for the Northwest passage. Using incredible new technology, and Inuit folk history, they have been able to locate one of his ships. I hope some of you get to see it.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29131757

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #32 on:** September 26, 2015, 04:07:48 PM »

What pictures. The lost ship looks so forlorn in the ocean, as indeed it was. it looks straight up and down though, although that wouldn't be possible would it? I would think it would sink all the way to the ocean floor. Those sailing ships were beautiful and when the wind was just right, what a grand feeling one would have onboard! I sailed the "ocean blue" for six hours on a charter boat once from the Virgin Islands and I've never forgotten that wonderful feeling of being one with the wind and the natural world.

Thanks JOANK, for bringing that to our attention.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #33 on:** September 26, 2015, 04:11:13 PM »

Map of the Northwest Passage.

http://www.athropolis.com/map9.htm

PatH · « **Reply #34 on:** September 26, 2015, 04:39:39 PM »

I read about Franklin'n expedition as a teenager, in Unsolved Mysteries of the Arctic by Vilhjalmur Stephansson. So I was excited when they discovered the wreck. Stephansson was an explorer, somewhat of a nut about the healthiness of the Inuit diet, and felt the men might have survived if they hadn't been too hidebound to go native and eat seal meat.

JoanK · « **Reply #35 on:** September 26, 2015, 05:28:17 PM »

There were some indications that they resorted to cannibalism. You'd think they would prefer seals, but they were probably too weak and unskilled at that point to catch them.

DavidSimpson · « **Reply #36 on:** September 28, 2015, 01:08:15 PM »

Hello everyone. I'm on board with this, have the book, and am ready to set sail. I've been taking the Latin classes on SeniorLearn.org, but this will be my first book discussion.

Halcyon · « **Reply #37 on:** September 28, 2015, 01:20:16 PM »

Hi David and welcome. Glad to have you on board. Sailing with these folks is just as much fun as our Latin group!

JoanK · « **Reply #38 on:** September 28, 2015, 04:42:51 PM »

WELCOME WELCOME DAVID. we're glad to see you. Normally we say pull up a chair and your favorite refreshments, but we have to get the ship ready.

Tell us little about yourself. Have you been on a luxury liner (or a submarine) before?

DavidSimpson · « **Reply #39 on:** September 28, 2015, 07:11:43 PM »

Thanks everyone. Good to see you here Halcyon! I'm a physicist, working full time, and going to graduate school part time to get my fifth degree. I'm enrolled in SeniorLearn Latin 102 along with my classmate Halcyon who is also here. I'm also fluent in the international language Esperanto. I've invited my mom to come here and join the discussion for this book. We're working through the tech issues right now -- I hope she'll be here shortly. I've not been on a large ship before, but my granddad (my mom's dad) had a boat at his cottage on Lake Erie, and I spent lots of time on his boat while growing up.

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Author Topic: Dead Wake by Erik Larson - October Book Club Online (Read 68642 times)