Author Topic: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion  (Read 26947 times)

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Ön görüsmemize hosgeldiniz
(Welcome to our Pre-Discussion)



An adventure story held together by a young boy, Jahan and his gift to the Salton, a pet albino elephant.  The Ottoman palace is full of rooms within rooms that include many characters, both real and imaginary, swashbuckling soldiers, mysterious Gypsies, guileless courtesans. A historical novel, brimming with all the intrigue, romance, beauty, power, pageantry and brutality of the Sixteenth century


“I work to honour the divine gift. Every artisan and artist enters into a covenant with the divine.” Sinan, Architect for three Sultans


Discussion Starts:
 Monday, September 17


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“People must be walking now across the courtyards of the mosques, not knowing, not seeing … Istanbul.”

Discussion Leaders: BarbStAubrey

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2018, 11:24:59 PM »
And so we begin to explore a time and place few of have read about much less studied during our school years. Like many of you, we read about the Crusades and maybe even heard of Saladin who defeated the crusader army south of the Horns of Hattin. But all that took place during the Twelfth century.

The Sixteenth century is when the Tudor dynasty was leading England - in Paris, Francis I became the first French king to make the Louvre his residence - The Italian Renaissance peaked in the mid-16th century -  The Americas were incorporated into the Spanish Empire - Spain forced the conversions of Jews and Muslims outlawing both - Rome renewed the Inquisition to combat Protestant heresy - In 1580 Spain conquered Portugal and began rounding up and slaughtering Jews that had fled Spain - Ivan the Terrible in Russia rules with ferocious severity, takes the title Tsar and marries Anastasia - In German-speaking lands there is the revolution of printing and the Protestant Reformation is unleashed.

A brutal time in history when leadership ruled with the hand of death and the Ottoman Empire was no exception. In the midst of all the brutality is the Renaissance filled with glorious accomplishments in the arts; painting, writing, sculpture, architecture, dance, music, gardens, and the beginnings of modern science.   

With so much history of this time and place available Jahan, the main character of The Architect’s Apprentice, is the perfect vehicle to carry the story - nothing specific is historically noted about this or any apprentice to Mimar Sinan, the sultan’s chief architect where as, many of the other characters are true to known history.

I've been as wide eyed as a kid in the city for the first time as I found one bit after the other about the Ottoman Empire and particularly during the sixteenth century. This rare novel has the power to enlighten and transform us - this story is far more than riding a magic carpet - this novel has the stuff that allows us to explore a vision of justice, equality, and self-transcendence when life throws us a curve.

For the next few days in preparation for out discussion of The Architect's Apprentice, let's steep ourselves in all that is the Ottoman Empire and learn more about the characters that lived during this time in history who will people this story - everyone, grab a chair and light your lamps
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2018, 06:26:17 AM »
Marking my spot.

My youngest sister is up from Wilmington with her husband and two cats until this hurricane crisis is over. They are currently staying at a hotel. She says the cars didn't take to the drive up - at all. Don't know yet how they are taking the hotel room. I might be able to squeeze them in here, but I won't be able to keep them separate from my cats very easily. I may not be here much for a few days.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2018, 09:34:11 AM »
I hear that the nabbing of a hotel room is not easy and my sister also had issues with her vehicle as she drove to my daughters - sounds like there is a lot in common with both your sister's experience and mine - the difference is there are cats involved - that does get to be tricky -

In the scheme of things between now and Monday a lot can happen - the storm does seem to have been downgraded but then it is huge with lots of rain - evidently it is the flooding that is the big concern since the drainage along the southern east coast is not that great  - with this making landfalls on Friday there is the weekend for the area to settle down - we will all be waiting and praying -

Regardless the circumstances I sure hope you and your sister have a good visit - it is harder when there is disaster on the back of your mind but maybe part of disasters is for folks to get closer together - hope so -
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Jonathan

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2018, 12:25:46 PM »
'...this novel has the stuff that allows us to explore a vision of justice, equality, and self-transcendence when life throws us a curve.'

What a brilliant heading, Barb. This book surely adds one more to the Thousand and One Arabian Nights.  'Rooms within rooms'...now there's an architecutural trick. What a book cover! Laying on the desk, it shows me only a white elephant, on a dark background. Propping it up, with the light hitting it, the glittering mosque appears. Awesome. Is that our hero, Jahan, between the elephant's legs?

I've never known a courtesan to be guileless. But then we're going for the center of the universe. Methinks that love is part of the story. For better or for worse.

'Her cats...my cats...', here's another story developing...keep us posted, Frybabe.

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2018, 04:21:34 PM »
Picked up my book today at my library.  The cover is stunning!  Jonathan, we will soon find out if the sultan beneath the elephant is Jahan.  Interesting, is he a our hero?

Frybabe and Barb, I am so happy to hear your loved ones are to a safe place.  I am seeing pics of the outgoing traffic, and it is just unbelievable.  Last year it was my daughter and son in law leaving their home in Florida, caught in this type of traffic.  I was worried sick for hours because their cells phones died and they had no way to get in touch with me until they finally reached his family in Georgia.  My prayers are with all those in the path of this horrific hurricane. 

Barb, I hope your toe is better and you have managed to get more sleep.  I hate it when I get out of my sleep pattern and feel punch drunk for days.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
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Frybabe

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2018, 04:28:50 PM »
Ah, the cats. Yes, they are safely ensconced under the bed at the local Red Roof Inn. Barb does not want to bring them over here for fear of a major ruckus that may or may not result. Sue and Barb have cancelled their trip to Nova Scotia, i think partly because the cats didn't take the car drive well. She didn't want her Hubby to have to drive back down by himself with screaming cats the whole way. They are also worried about the house, which would have spoiled some of the trip for Barb. The extra cost to leave from here was also a factor. Believe it or not, it was much cheaper to fly to Toronto from Wilmington than from here.

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2018, 04:56:25 PM »
Cats!!!  I am picturing the hullabaloo traveling with cats.

I know there are many links above to keep us all busy, but I have one that Elif has placed in the back of her book and thought it would also give us some insights and information about our author.  Enjoy!

http://www.elifsafak.com.tr/home/
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2018, 05:45:54 PM »
I rarely ever look at the back of a book before reading the entire book.  When I picked up my book from the library, I was sitting in my car with the book in my lap, I picked it up haphazardly and it fell open to the back page titled Author's Note, it caught my eye so I began reading.  I came home and clicked on our discussion in here, and lo and behold, we are discussing our family and friends evacuating their homes and being stuck in traffic,and also our comments about how the book cover was so striking to all of us..  Coincidental.... well, you decide.  This is what I read:

Author's Note

I am not sure whether writers choose their subjects or whether their subjects somehow come to find them.  For me, at least, it felt like the latter with The Architect's Apprentice.  The idea for this novel emerged for the first time on one sunny afternoon in Istanbul, while I was inside a cab that was stuck in traffic.  I was looking out of the window and frowning, already late for an appointment, when my eyes moved across the road to a mosque by the seaside.  It was Molla Celebi, one of Sinan's lesser known beauties.  a Gypsy boy was sitting on the wall next to it, pounding on a tin box that was turned upside down, I thought to myself that if the traffic did not clear any time soon, I  might as well begin to imagine a story with the architect Sinan and Gypsies in it.  Then the car moved on and I totally forgot the idea, until a week later a book arrived by post.  It was Gulru Necipoglu's The Age of Sinan: Architectural Culture in the Ottoman Empire, sent by a dear friend.  Inside the book, one particular drawing caught my eye: it was a painting of Sultan Suleiman, tall and sleek in his kaftan.  But it was the figures in the background that intrigued me.  There was an elephant and a mahout in front of the Suleimaniye Mosque; they were hovering on the edge of the picture, as if ready to run away, unsure as to what they were doing in the same frame as the Sultan and the monument dedicated to him.  I could not take my eyes off this image.  The story had found me.

While writing this book I wanted to understand not only Sultan's world but also those of the chief apprentices, workers, slaves and animals who were there alongside him.  However, when one is writing about an artist who has lived as long ago, and produced as much, as Sinan, the biggest challenge is the reconstruction of time.  It took from  seven to nine years to finish a mosque, and Sinan constructed more than 365 buildings of various sizes.  So, in the interest of narrative pace, I decided to jettison a strict chronological order and to create my own timeframe, with actual historical events absorbed into the new timeline.  For instance, in reality, Mihrimah got married at the age of seventeen, but I wanted her to marry later, to give her and Jahan more time together.  Her husband, Rustem Pasha, died in 1561; yet for the sake of the story, I wanted him around a bit longer.  Captain Gareth is an entirely fictional character, but he is based both on European sailors who had joined the Ottoman navy, and on Ottaman sailors who had switched sides.  Their stories have not yet been told.

It was a conscious decision to bring Takiyuddin into the story at an earlier point in history.  In fact, he became the Chief Royal Astronomer at the time of Sultan Murad.  But the trajectory of the observatory was important to me, so I shifted the date of Grand Vizier Sokollu's death.  The painter Melchior and the ambassador Busbecq were historical characters who arrived in Istanbul around 1555, but I have fictionalized the moments of their arrival and departure.  In several books I have come across allusions to a group of Ottoman architects in Rome, but what exactly they were doing there remains obscure.  I imagined them as Sinan's apprentices, Jahan and Davud.  And there really was an elephant named Suleiman in Vienna, whose story has been beautifully narrated by Jose Saramago in The Elephant's Journey.

Finally, this novel is a product of the imagination.  Yet historical events and real people have guided and inspired me.  I benefited enormously from a great many sources in English and Turkish, from Ogier Ghiselin de Busbecq's Turkish Letters to Metin.  And's Istanbul in the Sixteenth Century: The City, the Palace, Daily Life.

"May the world flow like water," Sinan used to say.  I can only hope that this story, too, will flow like water in the hearts of its readers.
                                                                                                  Elif Shafak


So, like this story found Elif, I too, feel her story found us!  A book cover inspired her, as does the cover of her book, leaves us a bit in awe.  We shall see if her story, "flows like water."

“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2018, 07:47:04 PM »
Wow thanks so much Bellamarie - the quote really sets the scene for us doesn't it - I looked up the books she speaks of and oh my her book budget is much higher than mine - but then most of the books about Ottoman culture or Ottoman art are in the high dollar category.  Which only ads to the grandeur I'm suspecting we continue to encounter reading this book. It sure found us didn't it - flows like water - hmm another allusion that can have many interpretations - will it flow like the water delivered by Florence I wonder? 

Ha everyone pictures cats as a group in their own world - a world that ignores the needs and wants of their so called owners. You never hear about the cats that president's bring into the White House - lots of dogs and stories published about White House dogs but not about White House cats - so much so that I could not think of a recent president who had a cat - well was I surprised to learn nearly all of them had a cat - we just do not hear about them. Now there is a story to write...

Who would have guessed frybabe it was less expensive to fly to Nova Scotia from Wilmington than from where you are located

Still need to explore your link Bellamarie - till later...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2018, 07:53:02 PM »
Wow just opened the link Bellamarie and it appears I can spend hours absorbing all the links included - this is some author we happened onto - she has fabulous quotes 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2018, 11:29:36 PM »
Yes, Barb, I got caught up in all those links, and realized I had spent too much time reading them.  I will have to go back a few times, because my curiosity is so piqued with this author.  I didn't even realize Elif was a woman until I went to this site.

Cats are absolutely hilarious.  I had a cat named Bernie for fourteen years.  I loved that darn cat, and he came up missing one day.  Both my sons have a cat, and these cats seriously take the attention away from everyone in the house.  I can sit hours watching my one son's cat Mr. C.  Gotta tell you a funny story, each of their cats were first thought to be females, and were named Bella and Chole, only to later realize they were males, so they changed their names.  Chole is now called Mr. C.  Bella was changed to Frank.  lolol
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2018, 11:38:21 PM »
I found this especially interesting..... let's keep it in mind as we read this book:

THE ARCHITECT'S APPRENTICE
There were six of us: the master, the apprentices and the white elephant. We built everything together. Mosques, bridges, madrasas, ravanserais, alms houses, aqueducts...

I think about Istanbul every day. People must be walking now across the courtyards of the mosques not knowing, not seeing. They would rather assume that the buildings around them had been there since the time of Noah. They were not. We raised them: Muslims and Christians, craftsmen and galley slaves, humans and animals, day upon day.

But Istanbul is a city of easy forgettings. Things are written in water over there, except the works of my master, which are written in stone.

Beneath one stone, I buried a secret. Much time has gone by, but it must still be there, waiting to be discovered. I wonder if anyone will ever find it. If they do, will they understand?

Hmmm...... I wonder what the buried secret could be? 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

CallieOK

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2018, 11:42:36 PM »
X

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2018, 11:07:25 AM »
So good to see you Callie

I think this book is going to prove to be way more than museums and romance. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

CallieOK

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2018, 12:13:21 PM »
Thank you, bellamarie.   My e-book on loan arrived this morning.  Not sure I'll be able to renew in 2 weeks so will have to read ahead. Probably won't be able to study all the information links, either - but I'll enjoy reading the comments.

Barb,  thank you for the Time Line.  I always like seeing what's going on in different parts of the world during the same time period.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2018, 01:01:17 PM »
So glad you will be with us Callie - as you read and come across things like within the first 18 pages aspects of Architecture are included - there is a link - in fact the fist link that will help you understand - some of the links are short and are only for a better understanding of the new things we will be reading about.

Idea for you Callie - since you only have the book for the 2 weeks why not keep notes and jot down what was your thinking or your questions about what was happening for each of the 4 sections - that way you can remember what was included in just that section.

Bellamarie I also wondered about the secret and then the more I thought on it I'm thinking that all undocumented life is a secret - that lovers and parents and soldiers and criminals, all experienced life on certain streets, buildings, hills and what happened that the result may have affected many, if not of historical importance was woven into the fabric of life and are secret threads that bind us and that we can only imagine the what and how it all came about.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

CallieOK

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2018, 03:50:56 PM »
Barb, Thanks for the suggestions.  I'm sure I'll being opening at least some of the links.  You're a Gem providing all the information you do to supplement the reading.  Thank you!!!!!!!

Jonathan

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2018, 05:57:49 PM »
So good to hear from you, Callie. This book is a keeper. I don't think you will be able to part with it after two weeks.

I'm delighted to be going to a place that was among the first things we learned about in the early grades in geography. Constantinople...the crossroads of the world. Who could forget the Dardenelles that joined the Sea of Murmurs to that other Sea of Dark Waters, the name of which I can't remember at the moment.

What a coincidence! In the first sentence. We're greeted by 'a fierce growl...from the largest cat in the Sultan's palace.'

ANNIE

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2018, 12:21:05 AM »
I haven’t been here due to a move from independent living to assisted living.  The last few weeks have kept us in an uproar.  But I have been intrigued by all of your wonderful comments so I will see if I can get the book at a nearby library and have my DIL pick it up Sunday before she comes to get my old apartment emptied.  I will go down tomorrow and grab a few pictures plus a few more things and say good bye to that big lovely place!😢😢😢❤️❤️❤️🤓🙏
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2018, 08:33:49 AM »
Annie, it is so nice to see you, I think of you often.  How are you liking your new assisted living?  My dil's grandmother moved into an assisted living place, very nice, and she loves it.  It's near all her family so they visit her every morning, take her to dinner and brings her to all the week end family events.  This looks like a pretty interesting book, glad you are going to join us.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

CallieOK

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2018, 11:26:26 AM »
So good to hear from you, Callie. This book is a keeper. I don't think you will be able to part with it after two weeks.  Jonathan,  I can renew it but if there's a waiting list, I'll be put at the end and might not get it back for a while.

Will have to check in on my Oklahoma Sooners' and All My Chlldren's Oklahoma State Cowboys' football games today.  Otherwise, I plan to begin reading "The Architect's Apprentice".

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2018, 04:48:50 PM »
Annie - how fabulous to hear from you - yes, if  you can join us that will be grand but just a post now and again, letting us know how you are, is a treat... hope your new arrangement will be shortly as homey as the one you just left - many changes in our lives aren't their Annie - I bet your family is nearby and they continue to be your touchstone.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2018, 05:12:51 PM »
Callie hope the weather is nice where you are so the game and tailgate parties can be enjoyed - we do not play until tonight at 7: with hopes the rain is gone but it is not looking good - after all the weeks and months of triple digit we are, I think it is over 2 weeks now with nothing but rain. Nothing around here seems to know the word moderation.

Looks like you are almost into sweater wearing time - nice to curl up with a book during a cool night and nothing on TV anymore so enjoy away...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2018, 05:19:49 PM »
Bellamarie your wonderful link to the author's page is now in the heading.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2018, 05:21:11 PM »
haha love it - yes the coincidence on cats is just perfect isn't it Jonathan - however, I would not want to hear the cat in our book during a dark and windy night in my garden.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2018, 05:31:44 PM »
Annie, it's so good to see you here.  I've missed you.  I think you'll like the book; it kind of sucks one in.

You've moved to more intense quarters in the same facility?  That will give you some continuity in friends, staff, and routine.  Good luck to you.

PatH

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2018, 05:38:12 PM »
Callie, it's great to have you in the discussion.  Let's hope no one puts a hold on your book.  With ebooks, keeping it overdue isn't an option. ;)

ANNIE

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2018, 07:05:26 PM »
Not sure but I’m on the wait list!  This book is really popular which means a wait for me!
Could be short! Hope so!

Yes, once I adjust to this move, I will be fine.  I know people on both sides of this place!:). Of course I do! 
Did I tell you all that this place is run by the Carmalite nuns?  So today at 4pm, I went to Mass, then to supper and returned to my new home while I await The OSUvsTcu game to start at 8pm.  I’m in the football pool so will watch it with the folks in the living room on the IL side of the “home”! :)  we all bring stuff to munch on!   Probably many of them will return to their apartments but not me.  Last year one of the games ended after midnight.  Many of the male fans gave up but the ladies were there ‘til the
end and OSU won!

 
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

bellamarie

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2018, 07:52:35 PM »
Annie how fun to watch the Ohio game with lots of others.  My hubby was born and raised in Toledo, Ohio and is a huge Buckeye fan.  I was born and raised in Monroe, Michigan and am a huge Wolverine fan.  We are what they call, " A house divided."  We have so much fun when our two teams play each other.  Enjoy your game tonight!

I have not begun reading the book, it's been a very busy few days with the grandkids sports and me visiting family out of town, so I plan to begin tomorrow afternoon once Zoey & Zak go home and we have dinner with the family to celebrate a couple of the granddaughter's birthdays.  So, yet one more conicidence...... a cat is mentioned in our story?   
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

PatH

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2018, 10:28:40 AM »
The buried secret:
Quote
This nobody knows, but at the bottom of one of the hundreds of buildings that my master built rests hidden the centre of the universe.
What could it be?  We've just read a description of it, and the few who have experienced it.  Is there some token that represents it?  Or perhaps an underground space where, for a while, Jahan experienced the peace and beauty that exist at the center?

Something to look forward to.

PatH

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2018, 10:35:16 AM »
Did you notice, in the author's quote Bellamarie posted, that those who were in that discussion will meet an old friend here?

"And there really was an elephant named Suleiman in Vienna, whose story has been beautifully narrated by Jose Saramago in The Elephant's Journey.

Jonathan

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2018, 12:01:43 PM »
That makes it even better. I don't even have to be reading the book to enjoy it. It's stunning just laying on my desk. What a glorious spine, with Suleiman following so meekly behind Jahan.

And to think that we owe this marvellous story to a traffic jam in Istanbul!

The secret? Finding peace and beauty in this storied city. We're just the folks to find them. What a fine group coming together.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2018, 02:00:45 PM »
Wow - now this really let's me know how quickly time is flying - it seemed in my mind's eye like only last year, two at the most but here is our discussion 7 years ago for The Elephant's Journey.

http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=2526.0

Meeting old friends - secrets buried - this is like a scavenger hunt popular at teen parties this time of year.

Looks like the heaviest rains from Florence is closing in on Charlotte NC - Last I heard that is where the storm is expected to swing north.

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2018, 04:22:27 PM »
Jonathan interesting about the illustration on the cover - it hit me - the largest and to both architect, Sinan and what we read about Islam, the mosque is the closest thing to God and on the cover not only in gold on a black ground but taking up the greater portion of the image - then the white elephant, gift to the Salton, refers to a very famous incident that took place in the Arabian Peninsula in the same year Prophet Muhammad was born.  It demonstrates how God protected the land that was to become the focal point of the last revelation.

Pat Is the secret the last revelation do you think?

Here is the famous story of the elephant and the Prophet Muhammad -
https://www.al-islam.org/life-muhammad-prophet-sayyid-saeed-akhtar-rizvi/year-elephant

Including an elephant in this sixteenth century story of the Ottoman Empire may be the last hurrah since at the end of the century gunpowder was the favorite weapon during war and that was the end of using elephants in battle. I did read that elephants had been tamed since 4500 BC, starting as help in agriculture.

With the slow but powerful elephant and a life long attachment between elephant and Mahout as a cultural given. that image sure gives a different view of life compared to our own history where men, depending on an animal used a swiftly moving horse. And that is another story since the horse was brought to the continent by Spain. Some escaped or were let loose and became wild, populating the land. All this in the sixteenth century as well - interesting, we do not read anything about the fighting style of North American Natives before the horse.

Back to our cover - the smallest image seems to be the Mahout wearing a turban - sure puts things into perspective if size and space in an illustration is the allegory.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2018, 04:47:35 PM »
Just hit me - not much difference between a minaret and a bell tower - they are both very high slim structures from where a call to prayer alerts those within hearing range.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Jonathan

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2018, 05:12:44 PM »
Here you are, Barb. What a great discussion you made of Elephant's Journey. Nearing it's conclusion, you posted this:

'I have always wanted to read a book about Suleiman and this has whet my appetite.'

Do you think our author read the Saramago book?

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2018, 05:35:55 PM »
Jonathan it appears so - I believe it was Bellamarie that brought to our attention comments from the author where she said something - I forget just what it was but something about her using Saramago's book during her research to write The Apprentice Architect  - several of the books she mentioned I looked for and found but my word - each far exceeding my book budget.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2018, 05:41:06 PM »
OK at the risk of being redundant I am putting just the schedule here because I am watching for the page change to load the new heading that starts our Discussion - so here is the schedule and I think that gives me the number of pasts needed when the page turns

Discussion Schedule:
  • Mon. & Tues., September 17 & 18.....To page 18
  • Wednesday, September 19......Before the Master
  • Tuesday, September 25...........The Master
  • Monday October 1.....................The Dome - to page 256
  • Monday October 8.....................The Dome - page 257 to 331
  • Monday October 15...................After the Master
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2018, 05:41:30 PM »
heading - OH shoot one more... I'll fill this in later with something more interesting that just showing my faux pas

Wow - just reviewed the Elephant's Journey discussion - that book hit me at such a vulnerable time as I struggled to unearth the difference in what i was taught and what I learned over the years about the religion I practice and then at the time my heart was conflicted since my very best friend who had a very strong personality was seeing and assuming things - and then that book came along - talk about a stream of consciousness as my struggle and natural bent to research whenever I struggle with anything - whoosh...

Has anyone else looked into their Enneagram - I'm a perfect 5 - https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe