Educated ~ Tara Westover ~ Mini discussion~ July 19

[ginny]

You’ve heard about it, everybody is reading it,  you can’t put it down,  but what do YOU make of Educated?  Mark your calendar for July 19 and join us in our new fun Mini Book Discussion Series this summer and help us discuss  Educated: A Memoir by Tara Westover,  an unbelievable and true story which will never be forgotten by anybody who reads it. Come tell us what you think!

How is a Mini  Discussion different from a regular one?

1.  We read the book in its entirety before the first day.

2. We've been using the  ALA "Index card" approach which has worked wonderfully. In essence everybody has been given a (virtual) "index card" which they then "write" on, giving a question they'd like to see discussed or their thoughts on the book or something in the book, just whatever they would like to talk about.  They email that to me (click on envelope under my name or request email address here) and if you don't have email, post your question initially and I'll save it as submitted and we'll put it like the others, in the rota,  and then on July 19 I will take the cards and each day we'll consider a new one submitted in alphabetical order of the person submitting.

We  address  THAT question or thought for an entire day. And we can also look back, after addressing that thought, to something said before.  I love this concept, and that everybody has their day.

Once the cards are finished, anybody can  bring  up anything they like about the book.

Should someone not want to submit a question or thought, no problem, you are as welcome as the flowers in July to participate any way you wish.


Everyone is welcome!

[ginny]

And I just realized something else, too, about Tara. I have read in the past about therapy and how if somebody has been wronged as a child that  person now as an adult trying to deal with the issues this has caused, some psychologists think   for healing,  it's helpful for the adult  to confront  the  perpetrator, if possible.

And how if the perpetrator  is deceased,  then some psychologists advocate going to the grave site and yelling at the grave.

And some advocate  removing yourself from the incident entirely, mentally, by,  if you have children of that age,  picturing that happening to one of them, instead of you, so you can see how unjust or unrealistic the scenario was without your residual emotions.  Or  if you don't have children of the same age the wrong happened,    going around children of that age, perhaps visiting a nursery or school class  and then picturing THAT child being in the situation you were in. In other words,  being able to see it for what it was, as an adult.

And I just realized that both those things are what she has done with this book. She's confronted them with her anger and also is  seeing it through the lens of the child who experienced it.

Brilliant. I think I'll change my one word (changes allowed) to Brilliant.

What's yours?

[ginny]

 Here are some of the current questions on the floor, for convenience, should there be one we have not tried yet:


Bellamarie quotes Tara as saying:


8.  We have to take the condescension out of education. We've allowed education to become an identity. We have allowed our education to putrefy into arrogance.  Education should change you.

I don't necessarily blame them (parents) for feeling their kid will go off and become contemptuous of them.

9.  When you add that contempt to it (education), it becomes a different animal  Education is not so much a state of certainty, than it is a process of inquiry.  Education is maybe less about knowing more than someone, and maybe knowing someone. 

Why would the author say we have to take the "condescension" out of education? Are you aware of any condescension? In what way? Do you agree or disagree with this statement? What contempt is she talking about?

Why does she say we've allowed education to become an identity? What does this mean?


What one word for you sums up the book?

What one word sums up your personal reaction to the book?

What one word sums up what you will do with the knowledge you gained from reading the book?

Do you think this book will have any lasting effect or result? How has it affected you?

How many stars would you give the book if you were rating it, and why?

[bellamarie]

Ginny, 

Please rest assured that everyone here  HAS read your words above, several times, and DOES understand that they are your considered opinion on the veracity of the book, and that you need feel no anxiety to repeat them: we've got it.

Please rest assured, I feel no anxiety.  I did not repeat my words, any more times, than you yourself continued to repeat yours, as everyone here HAS read yours, several times, and DOES understand that they are your considered opinion on the veracity of the book, and you need to feel no anxiety to repeat them.  We've got it.   

Ginny, 

Instead of using this situation as a teachable moment to explain cleanliness, Mom succumbs to the green eyed demon herself, "and a jealousy lights her eyes."

Tara took liberty in saying what others felt, just like when she assumed her mother felt jealousy, and you have gone one step further, in labeling her succumbing to "the green eyed demon herself.  

Neither Tara's words, nor yours, are facts, but indeed make for good fiction reading.  Oops!  Sorry I repeated myself, once again. 

It's obvious, I see one perspective, you see another.  I can respect that, and agree to disagree.

I am over discussing this book.  I enjoyed taking the days off for my birthday, and have no desire to continue debating our different points of view. 

My one word for the book is:  Perception.....  Tara has her own perception of things, and all the other family members, have a different one. 

I agree with the psychologist, and lawyer...Grain of salt. Oops sorry, I repeated myself again.  

To quote the  famous author, Rudyard Kipling, in his Barrack-room ballads, 1892:

"Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet."

Thank you Ginny, for bringing this book to our attention, and deciding to make it our July discussion. I am so glad your eye surgery went well.

Thank you Jonathan and  PatH., for sticking with this very spirited discussion.

My apologies for being redundant.

I wish you all well.  Happy Reading! 

[Jonathan]

I'm so pleased to read that the story  has a happy ending. I find it in Bellamarie's post:

'I happened to watch yet another one of Tara's video interviews.  In this one, she is very much different than in a prior one.  In this interview she seems older, more confident, more intelligent, more playful, and self assured. She has changed her hair color to blonde with highlights, wears a stylish black leather jacket, and I get the sense she is comfortable in her own skin, at last.'

I had the feeling early on that she had to get something off her chest, like the Ancient Mariner. So I'll go back to my first impression, for the one word that sums up the book, 'Shriven'. And for an alternate title: 'HONESTLY!', pronounced so as to suggest the ambivalence and ambuguity of the subject. She has probably encouraged other writers to try a  true story.

What a lively discussion. Thanks, Ginny, Bellamarie, Pat.

[ginny]

Another great title, thank you Jonathan, and Bellamarie.  I really appreciate the dedication of the group to providing as always a great discussion, I can't think of anything we've not covered,  but if any of you can, please feel free to add it here as we prepare to close our 2nd only Mini in 23  years.

This has been a relatively long Mini discussion but you had so much to add, I would have hated to miss it,  and I have heard some nice comments from those people reading along, even though not participating,  and that makes me feel that we've done a good job.

I think star wise on rating the book,  on a scale from 1-5, 5 being the best, I'm going to have to give the book a 5 for the courage it took to write it, how well it is written,  and for what I hope the result will be: that more people can see it and say there is somebody like me, but she succeeded, and I can, too. In whatever field.

Thank you all for a lively, provocative, and enjoyable discussion. I have  appreciated your dedication and  thoughtful responses.

[PatH]

Well, it's been a good, meaty discussion; we raised issues I never would have thought of, and saw all kinds of things.

Bellamarie, the discussion must have been somewhat painful for you, since you suffered through some of the problems in the book.  But you overcame them, and made for yourself a life full of love and caring and faith solid as a rock.  You must be proud of yourself, certainly I'm very impressed.

Jonathan, I like the notion of "shriven".  Absolution washes everything clean and makes a new start.  Let's hope Tara gets there, and finds her new life.

Ginny, thank you for leading us, and adding so much.  You always make the discussions sparkle.

[PatH]

I don't want to give the book a sacred rating, but I know I won't forget it.  And although it's a minor bit in the book, I think of it in terms of one of what for me is a very strong visual image: Tara running along the ridge of the Cambridge chapel to see the view, unafraid of the wind, because she knows she can walk in it on the ground, so why should she fear it here.

[ginny]

Oh I should have asked that question, it's a scene I find myself thinking about a lot, too!!!  Wish I had thought of that, but I'm so glad you expressed it.

Well since we all have had our turn, it seems it's time to strike the tent.  It was short, but substantial, I think.   A very good book to discuss. 

 I really like the shorter format for the summer. I enjoyed that, very much. 

 Many thanks to you all, and happy rest of the summer.