Author Topic: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online (Read 112665 times)

serenesheila · « **Reply #40 on:** July 16, 2009, 07:14:06 PM »

The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. everyone is welcome to join in.

People of the Book - by Geraldine Brooks

You'll fall in love with Hanna Heath, Geraldine Brooks' edgy Aussie rare book expert with an attitude, a loner with a real passion for her work. How could she refuse this opportunity of a lifetime, the conservation of the beautifully illustrated Sarajevo Haggadah, the mysterious Hebrew manuscript, created in Spain in the 14th century?

The invitation will bring Hanna into war-torn Bosnia in the spring of 1996 and then, into the world of fine art forgers and international fanatics. Her intuitive investigation of the manuscript will put her in a time capsule to medieval Spain and then back to Northern Australia again with a number of stops along the way. This is based on the travels of an actual manuscript, which has surfaced over the centuries since its creation in Spain.

Discussion Schedule:

July 15-19 #1 ~ Hanna, 1996; Insect's Wing;
   Sarajevo, 1940
July 20-24 Hanna, Vienna, 1996; Feathers and a Rose;
   Hannah, Vienna, Spring '96
July 25-August 3 Wine Stains, Venice 1609;
   Hanna, Boston, 1996
August 4-August 8 Saltwater, Tarragona, 1492;
   Hanna, London, Spring, 1996
August 9-August 13 White Hair, Seville, 1480;
   Hanna, Sarajevo, Spring, 1996
August 14-18 Lola, Jerusalem, 2002;
   Hanna, Gunumeleng, 2002
August 19-August 23 Afterword

(click twice to really enlarge)

Topics for Discussion
July 15-19 ~ Hanna, 1996; Insect's Wing;
Sarajevo, 1940

1. What is your opinion of Geraldine Brooks' protagonist from these introductory chapters? Do you know people like Hanna? Is she believable? Likeable?

2. Why was Hanna Heath chosen from a pool of more qualified conservators to prepare the Haggadah for exhibition?
Do you think she differs from most conservators who consider their job "merely technical?"

3. What are some of the possible reasons Hanna's hands were shaking as she waited for the book to be brought to her in the bank vault?

4. What facts do we learn about the manuscript's appearance in Sarajevo in 1894? Does it appear to have been a legal sale to the museum?

5. Why does the UN want to put it on display as soon as possible in 1996?

6. What do you remember about the book's appearance when Hanna first sees it? Will she rebind the book as previous conservators have done? How does she see her job as a conservator?

7. Is it remarkable, miraculous even, that the manuscript is in such good condition considering the conditions in which it was stored and the way it has been handled?

8. Is there reason to suspect that the manuscript was illustrated by a Christian illuminator? But what is it about the Seder illustration that Hanna finds perplexing?

9. What remarkable discoveries does Hanna make in the manuscript's binding? Why does she believe that the haggadah has been in the Alps at one time? Do you think this is all fiction?

10. What do we learn about the attitudes of the Sarajevo natives during the war from Ozren when he takes Hanna to dinner in the Old Town? Why does he reject the second opinion Hannah offers him to see if anything can be done about his son's head injury

11. What purpose does Lola's story serve? What did you learn of ethnic relations in Sarajevo in the 1940's?

12. Can you tell which characters were were real, which were fictional? Serif Kamal - the Muslim who saved the Haggadah from the Nazis? Dr. Josip Boscovic, the museum director, who turned it over to Kamal? Do you think the name of the person who saved the manuscript in 1992 is known? Do you believe that the 30 year old kustos, Ozren Karaman is a fictitious character?

Relevant Links:
Geraldine Brooks - Background information; Sarajevo Haggadah; Early Haggadah Manuscripts; Illuminated Manuscripts; Brief History of Illuminating Manuscripts;

Discussion Leaders: JoanP, Ann , JoanK, & Traudee

Hi, everyone. I am just starting our book. I am confused..... I thought that I was to wait to begin eading it until the 15th. Instead, should I have been reading this section prior to our start date? So, that I would have been ready to discuss it on the 15th?

Thanks,
Sheila

JoanP · « **Reply #41 on:** July 16, 2009, 09:45:01 PM »

Hi there, Sheila! Glad you made it. Start reading!

The schedule up in the heading is a DISCUSSION schedule only - NOT a Reading Schedule. We are asking folks to keep an eye on the discussion schedule, not to give away any surprises - to people like you who haven't read the chapters yet!
Charlie, you are showing admirable restraint - we know you haven't hop the train for old Vienna yet...

Oh, golly, Marjifay - I still haven't stopped laughing! Would you like the task of preparing Discussion Questions for the heading! You're a riot!
There's something to what you say about a nonfiction account of the Haggadah travels. Do you think there is enough known information for a whole book? I keep looking for the actual facts - now JoanK has peeked ahead to the Afterword and let out the fact that this is all fiction. That doesn't stop me from looking for known facts, though.
And I haven't given up on the fiction aspects of the story yet. I like it that Hanna has a sense of humor - that makes up for the abrasiveness, don't you think?

Quote

One of the first questions I had was why didn't she wear plastic gloves when doing her work...

A good question Will we see plastic gloves before the book is over?

Quote

Another question I had was why the U.N. would give a rat's about an old Jewish book.

Now this one I think we can answer - does anyone want to take a stab at it? Why is the UN in Sarajevo in 1996?

winsummm · « **Reply #42 on:** July 16, 2009, 10:37:07 PM »

how about Julianna Moore???

straudetwo · « **Reply #43 on:** July 16, 2009, 10:51:18 PM »

Allow me to follow up and correct what I said in my # 37.

When Hanna left Sarajevo, she did not go to London directly but took a detour to Vienna to see her old friend Amalie Sutter, hoping that Amalie could identify the wing and the insect. Amalie did have the answer.

She established that the wing was that of a butterfly from an alpine region.
That is confirmed in the episode The Insect's Wing.

Traude

zanybooks · « **Reply #44 on:** July 17, 2009, 09:45:42 AM »

What this book is:

Zany; both the author and her protagonist have a wonderful sense of humor
Well researched; as with the best Dick Francis, Diane Gabaldon or Luke Jackson, one is soon immersed in the arcane language of another profession (or two).
And, as with the Hardy Boys, the first chapter ends on the edge of an intriguing mystery (if only Grissom were still with us).

What this book isn’t:

A probing analysis of the human condition. If one hasn’t yet read the best books—Of Human Bondage, For Whom the Bell Tolls, The Human Comedy, JR, or Instance of the Finger Post, there is still time to read them first.

Although, come to think of it, there is a suggestion in the opening chapter that love is more than sex.

JoanP · « **Reply #45 on:** July 17, 2009, 09:51:15 AM »

Quote

Although, come to think of it, there is a suggestion in the opening chapter that love is more than sex.

Zany - that's huge, isn't it?

Traudee, I'd forgotten Hanna's quick trip to Vienna when that insect's wing was identified. Can anyone find a picture of that Parnassus butterfly? Is that what I see spread all over the cover of my book?

Not, yours with the deep cleavage, Gum...resembling the actress that will play the Hanna role in the upcoming movie. (No, not Julianne Moore, Claire. All I'll say - some have not formed a mental image of Hanna yet - is that this actress really fits the Hanna in my mind - her face is now Hanna's...)

Gum, fascinating information you brought here yesterday. So, the inscription dating the book to the Inquisition - is not fiction - is actually in the manuscript.
And we have the name of the actualy conservator in Sarajevo now!!! Good work! I found this - to add to the information that Geraldine Brooks had actually sat in while the work was being done on the book - for two days! The conservator must have been as annoyed a16288169s was Hanna Heath with the large number of people intruding on her work. This from an interview with G. Brooks -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote

GB: Oh, it was wonderful. Very few people at that time had actually seen this book. It had been locked away in safes for a couple of centuries. So to be able to actually spend time in the room with it was marvelous. But it was very dramatic -- it wasn't like any other book conservation job, because the Haggadah was under intense guard. Things were still very unstable in the city; the room was full of Bosnian police and Secret Service guys as well as U.N. soldiers. It was kind of a crazy scene, with this woman at the center of it who was the conservator.

I got to watch her do her very painstaking work, and as she was working I noticed that she was punctilious about looking in the binding for any speck of matter. When she did find something -- she thought it might be a breadcrumb -- she was very excited. She said, "A chemical analysis of this could tell us so much," and she put it in a little envelope. That gave me the structure for the novel. I thought that my fictional conservator would find artifacts in the binding, and that those would be the vehicles to enable me to jump the reader back in time. And I knew that the reader would find out how that thing got there, while the conservator might or might not.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/bn-review/note.asp?note=

Back this afternoon ...following a trail of breadcrumbs you leave in each post...

- In the meantime, can anyone respond to Margifay's question - - why does the UN care about this old Jewish book?

Babi · « **Reply #46 on:** July 17, 2009, 10:02:02 AM »

There seems to me a distinct difference between 'conservator' and 'restorer',
ALF. The restorer attempt to restore an object to its previous perfection.
A conservator preserves the evidence of it's history, and seeks only to
prevent further deterioration.

JOAN & CLAIRE, I found this on doing some research prior to the discussion.
Parchment is a thin material made from calfskin, sheepskin or goatskin.
Its most common use is as the pages of a book, codex or manuscript. It
is distinct from leather in that parchment is limed but not tanned,
therefore it is very reactive with changes in relative humidity and is
not waterproof. The finer qualities of parchment are called vellum.

I'm not sure if Hanna is afraid of commitment, or just fiercely independent.
I would imagine she had to be not to be cowed by her Mother. Hanna makes
this statement: “…don’t rely on some other sod for your emotional sustenance.”That sounds like 'tough gal' material, but it is true. It's not fair to place the responsibility for your own happiness on someone else's shoulders.

MARJIFAY, I think the Sarajevo Haggadah had been a symbol of unity and
community pride in the past. The U.N. was involved in the hopes of encouraging
a return of that unity and sense of community in a very unstable area.

Sorry, CHAZZ, my bad. (See how modern I am.

)

Frybabe · « **Reply #47 on:** July 17, 2009, 11:57:15 AM »

Believe it or not, I had trouble finding a decent picture of a Parnassus Butterfly. I am not sure this is the Parnassus we are looking for; this is a Parnassus Apollo. Notice the near translucent wings. Very pretty. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3295/2604447782_1d01a4cf9b.jpg

Zanybooks, what in intriguing title, Instance of the Finger Post. Never heard of it. I will have to look it up.

winsummm · « **Reply #48 on:** July 17, 2009, 12:37:11 PM »

re oz and the second opinion: there is an old saying hope springs eternal

until there isn't any

so he really didn't want to know what he probably felt was true. And besides he liked Winnie the Pooh himself.

Gumtree · « **Reply #49 on:** July 17, 2009, 12:37:18 PM »

Off Topic - Isn't Instance of the Finger Post a mystery by Iain Pears - he also wrote The Immaculate Deception et al.

winsummm · « **Reply #50 on:** July 17, 2009, 12:55:35 PM »

frybabe nice work researching. thank you. . . claire

Gumtree · « **Reply #51 on:** July 17, 2009, 01:10:35 PM »

Winsumm I hate to tell you this but I know who the actress is. I remember reading about it some time back but couldn't think of who it might be - today it suddenly came to me. But I must heed JoanP's warning to let everyone form their own idea of Hanna - So for now my lips are sealed.

joangrimes · « **Reply #52 on:** July 17, 2009, 02:19:14 PM »

I am slow in getting here but am behind in reading too.

Claire, that was a wonderful description of how you did egg tempra. I really enjoyed reading that post of yours. I have studied so much about how it was made but have never seen anything before written that makes it so clear as to how it is actually done.

Joan Grimes

JoanK · « **Reply #53 on:** July 17, 2009, 03:18:59 PM »

I agree with JoanG. That was intewresting. Fascinating to speculate about the generations of artists who developed/discovered these techniques.

Why didn't she use rubber gloves? Everything I know about conservorship(?) is by watching shows on TV, such as History Detective. There they explain that professionals are divided about gloves. Some feel that they are necessary, others that they do more harm than good, and should not be won. Too bad GB didn't discuss this point, but Hannah is following some precedant in not wearing gloves.

PatH · « **Reply #54 on:** July 17, 2009, 04:18:12 PM »

Claire, it was great to read the description. Am I right in assuming you have to go to such pains to get only the interior of the yolk because the membrane makes lumps in the paint?

Hannah is willing to re-sew the binding because the old threads are so worn they are about to break, but it's interesting she is willing to go so far as to mend the endpapers with wheat paste and bits of linen paper.

PatH · « **Reply #55 on:** July 17, 2009, 04:21:10 PM »

Yes, Gumtree, "The Instance of the Fingerpost" is a mystery by Iain Pears. I started it, and it looked promising, but it was obvious I was going to have to keep a list of the many characters or get hopelessly lost, and I wasn't in the mood to do that at the time. I'll get back to it some day.

marjifay · « **Reply #56 on:** July 17, 2009, 05:54:40 PM »

Thanks, Joan P, for your comments on my post. I know why the U.N. was in Sarajevo -- to try to stop the slaughter among the warring ethnic groups in Bosnia and Herzegovina of the former Yugoslavia -- but I still can't see why the U.N. would have been interested in spending money to save and preserve that old book.

I've just started an interesting book being read in another group that goes into the history of that area of the Balkans, beginning with the Ottoman takeover in the 14th century -- THE BRIDGE ON THE DRINA by the Nobel Prize winning author, Ivo Andric. I bought it when the U.S. was over there fighting one of our myriad wars, along with some help from the U.N. Someone said that you can't understand Bosnia politics until you read that book.

Another very interesting book I read about this area was BALKAN GHOSTS by Robert Kaplan. And Kaplan recommended another book, Rebecca West's BLACK LAMB AND GREY FALCON, part travelogue and part history, written on the eve of WW2.

I'm really more interested in the history of the region than in a book, although Brooks' story did get better in the second part about Lola.

Marj

PatH · « **Reply #57 on:** July 17, 2009, 08:21:13 PM »

Something we shouldn't overlook is that the manuscript itself is a real character in the novel. It has a definite power, to capture the imagination and make people risk their lives for it. So far, Ozren, Serif Kamal, and Josip Boscovic have all done this, and I'm guessing that Gio. Domenico Vistorini, in Venice in 1609, was another. I'm also guessing that if any one of us held the book in our hands instead of looking at the two-inch square reproductions we would feel its power too, and be tempted to take risks for it.

PatH · « **Reply #58 on:** July 17, 2009, 09:40:40 PM »

"Why does he (Ozren) reject the second opinion Hannah offers him to see if anything can be done about his son's head injury?"

I don't know what Brooks means to be the reason, but I do know that coming to terms with a damaged or handicapped child is a very tortuous emotional process. There are different stages of denial and acceptance, and if someone approaches you on a level you have passed, or haven't yet reached, you can have an almost frantic reaction to what they are saying. Hannah is offering Ozren something that, at the moment at least, he isn't equipped to handle.

Babi · « **Reply #59 on:** July 18, 2009, 09:15:32 AM »

Oh, FRYBABE, it is beautiful! It certainly looks like it would match the
fragment found in the book.

PATH, you may be right about the reason for Oz' reaction to Hannah's offer.
My own reaction was that he would have already explored every avenue and knew it to be hopeless. I think Hanna wanted to be the rescuing angel here. Then, too, she has been raised to think her Mother can do miracles. I can't really blame Ozren for being somewhat offended by her assumption that he hadn't done everything possible already.

On a lighter note, I love the directions to Amalie Sutter’s office:
“..take the elevator to the third floor, follow the skeleton of the
diplodocus, and when you reach the jawbone, her door is on the left.”

ANNIE · « **Reply #60 on:** July 18, 2009, 11:43:42 AM »

Sorry to be so late in arriving in this most interesting discussion. Have been out of town and did not return until late last night.

So many comments on different parts of our first assignment!!

And the pictures and other links brought here are definitely adding to the book itself. Aren't the brewery and the butterfly just beautiful? The transparency of the delicate butterfly wings and solidity of the brewery building, hmmm, does that have a meaning for Serejevo? Maybe That the people of Serejovo are a very strong people in spite of the delicacy or fragility of their country's problems.

Are we still guessing on the movie??? I would choose Meryl Streep as the owner of the movie rights, but Charlize Theron as Hanna!

ANNIE · « **Reply #61 on:** July 18, 2009, 12:30:09 PM »

While searching for maps of Yugoslavia before it was split up, I came to this page about the Italian peninsula of Istria which was annexed to Yugoslavia sometime between 1938 and 1948. Quite a nice page with pictures of Istria and map of the peninsula. I don't know why this interested me so much, but it does seem strange to tell the Istrian people that they are now Yugoslavians when before they were Italians. Also with this link one can trace the other annexations that were accomplished in that period. Seems like it was so common for the people of these countries to be switched around without a "by your leave" or anything else. Of course, if you read "1918" which is about you can see where it started.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Istria#Maps_.2F_Cartes

Here's another link to the new Serbia established in 2006, I believe. They lost Croatia which was their link to the Mediterranean. If one scrolls down to the map and reads the text that is there, one can get an idea about Serbian independence.
http://www.ifri.org/files/CFA/Serbia_Conference_Belgrade_Note_final.pdf

Frybabe · « **Reply #62 on:** July 18, 2009, 12:59:28 PM »

I wasn't satisfied with just giving you all a picture of Parnassius. I didn't have my book with me at work so it was the best I could do at the moment. It turns out that the previous posted photo is a related but not the exact one. Here are pictures and more information about the SPECIFIC Parnassius mentioned in the book. http://en.butterflycorner.net/Parnassius-mnemosyne-Clouded-Apollo-Schwarzer-Apollo-Le-semi-apollon.377.0.html

What interested me was that in the book Amalie Sutter (entomologist) claims that it is common throughout Europe. The information I have seen so far on the real deal says it is rare.

Going to check out your links now Adoannie.

JoanP · « **Reply #63 on:** July 18, 2009, 04:33:28 PM »

Welcome back, Annie! Hope you had a lovely trip. You deserved the break! The maps indicate the sliding borders in what was once called Yugoslavia - meaning "All Slavs" - so much unrest and realignment in its borders since WWI, did you know there is no longer such a place called Yugoslavia?

Frybabe - you are as careful as the entomologist, Amalie Sutter - narrowing the Parnassius butterfly to the Apollo. Isn't it amazing what can be learned from the markings of a tiny wing? An interesting question - is the Apollo common or rare? Maybe it's rare, but common in the mountains?

I'm going to step outside the fiction now and say that I am really curious about the little item that resembled a breadcrumb that Andrea Pataki, the real Haggadah conservator found in the binding - was it really a breadcrumb? How old was it - after closer examination? Remember we can send questions to Geraldine Brooks - would you care to ask her about this? Please post in bold anything you would like to ask her.

PatH - I like to think of the haggadah as one of the book's characters. Don't you wish it could speak? I suppose in some ways it does.

Quote

"Hannah is willing to re-sew the binding because the old threads are so worn they are about to break, but it's interesting she is willing to go so far as to mend the endpapers with wheat paste and bits of linen paper." PatH

Pat, I'm wondering what she did with those threads. Weren't they a valuable part of the history? What about the ugly cover that had been sewn on to the book? Did I read that it was cardboard? I can't seem to find a photo of the little book - it was small, wasn't it? a bit larger than a paperback book? Can any of you find anything about the appearance of the book - and that ugly cover? If it was so bad and cheap, why not change that out too?

Marjifay has questioned the UN interest in this little old Jewish book. Well, one reason is that the UN is acting as the peacekeeper in this troubled area. Another might be that the little book is quite valuable - an estimated worh of $700 million in US dollars in 1991. I read this in Wikpedia when looking for a picture of the haggadah - I guess you can take that information with a grain of salt - but it was a valuable little book in Sarajevo's collection.
Are there any hints about whether the valuable book is in Sarajevo's museum legally? There is so much art hanging in museums all over the world that had been looted during war time.

JoanG - are you agreeing with Claire that the long-lasting paint used in the book is egg tempura? It would be great if we could find some scholarship that described the book - I'm sure there must be some somewhere on the wide, wide, net. I think it's a miracle that the book - and the paint - survived for so long under the conditions in which it was stored. Who knows, maybe the metal box was just what it needed to preserve the illuminations?

Let's talk more about the Sarajevans - about Ozren and his attitude towards outsiders. Perhaps that would help us understand why he would continue to read to Alia and deny him a second opinion which might help him. Claire, maybe you're right - maybe he'd rather not know for sure there is nothing that can be done for Alia. Maybe he thinks if he keeps reading to him, he can cure him.

PS - not Meryl Streep - or Chalize...Gum, your restraint is admirable!

joangrimes · « **Reply #64 on:** July 18, 2009, 06:40:13 PM »

Oh yes,JoanP. I definitely agree with Claire that the paint is egg tempera.

Joan Grimes

straudetwo · « **Reply #65 on:** July 18, 2009, 11:40:44 PM »

Claire
You're no longer e-accessible. Hmmm.
Missing you, T.

fairanna · « **Reply #66 on:** July 18, 2009, 11:45:45 PM »

Well I am here but don't think I have anything to add . I have become immersed in this story I read the information in the back to see how much was REAL and what was the authors imagination . My feeling as to why the book is so important .. it is about a people who have had much of their history destroyed ...and not my nature but by man ...I think the author has done a remarkable job in writing and find myself reluctant to stop ..back later

JoanP · « **Reply #67 on:** July 19, 2009, 08:28:28 AM »

Good morning, Anna - it is good to hear from you.

Quote

"[the book] is about a people who have had much of their history destroyed."

What you just said is important to remember - that GBrooks spent time in Sarajevo during the Bosnian war - the 1990's - and knew the attitudes of the Sarajevans first-hand. Ozren is a fictional character yet, but fiction based on knowledge of these people, who have lost so much during the war. Ozren his wife - and it looks as if he's lost his only child. I sense that he is weary of the war, the occupation and now the peacekeepers too. He wants no more outside intervention - even doctors who might be able to do something about his son. I think he's given up hope, but wants to cling to the life that is left in Alia.
I think he represents the point of view that peace would return if only the outsiders would leave - the different ethnic groups got along before - and could do so again. I wish I had his optimism.

The story is engrossing - on different levels, isn't it? There's Hanna - a fictional character, representing the actual conservator who is as interested in the book's history - just as we are. Then there is Lola's story prior to WWII and the realization at the library in Sarajevo that the Jewish book will either be destroyed - or stolen by those who realize its value.
Then there's the mystery of what really happened to the book. I find that part fascinating - and that's what I look for as I read Geraldine Brooks' fiction - historical fiction. I'm interesting in the "historical" part of her fiction.

What did you all think of Lola's story? What part did it play in the story? Was she a believable character? It will be interesting to compare her to the other fictional characters Brooks has created out of whole cloth in other historical periods.

JoanG, wouldn't it be interesting to learn if other illuminated medieval books were rendered with the egg tempura paint - perhaps that explains why they lasted as long as they have. Is this medium still used in artwork? If it is so long-lasting, then I would think it ought to be!

Traudee, where is Claire - I missed the "inaccessible" part? I'll bet she's out looking for the name of the actress that will play Hanna...

Have a super Sunday, everyone!

Babi · « **Reply #68 on:** July 19, 2009, 09:57:03 AM »

Charlize Theron! Now there is an excellent choice, ANNIE. She could
certainly play the role beautifully.
That whimsical...say rather, idiotic...redrawing of the map of Europe
gave rise to so many major problems. I cannot imagine how those 'world
leaders' thought they could so breezily alter peoples lives and histories.

Still a gorgeous white/gray butterfly, FRYBABE. Thanks for finding 'the
real thing'.

On Lola, I wondered why Lola? Why is her story central here? Her only contact with the Haggadah is the fact that she was in Serif Kamal’s home when he brought the book from the library for protection. Serif Kamal would seem to be the key figure here. Maybe her presence will become important later
on, but right now she seems irrelevant.

I had to look up a couple of terms to better understand the background.
Ladino: a Sephardic language also known as Judaeo-Spanish

Svabo…the Yiddish speaking Jewish immigrants.. better educated, rising to higher level in society

See, I always thought of the Sephardic group as being the better educated
and higher in status socially. Now I'm going to have to explore this a bit more.
(sigh)

zanybooks · « **Reply #69 on:** July 19, 2009, 10:56:50 AM »

After the brilliance of the first chapter, the poorly-written, sloppily-edited outline that formed the second was a total letdown. Chapter 1 provided immediacy; the reader felt she was there looking over the protagonist’s shoulder. In Chapter 2, we are told about events, we don’t experience with them. In the opening chapter, the author appeared to empathize with her characters, not so in Chapter 2. (The one exception being the historically-accurate account of the Soviets telling the hard-working Lola and Isak to get lost, they weren’t needed any more.)

The dialog is unbelievable. Take the lengthy speech of the 10-year old at the foot of page 61, ending “He must take me now, because here there is nothing but death.” The details are unbelievable. Take the “rich” lamb casserole, the starving children were served on page 62; they’d have thrown it all up in an instant. As for the “near-vertical rock face” on page 63, it may have been steep, but absent professional climbing gear I don’t think near-vertical is likely.

Much of the text, reads more like back-cover copy than POV descriptions. I can hear Geraldine chanting as she typed, “Got to get through this, got to get through this, get on to the good stuff." I felt much the same way and finished the chapter out of a sense of obligation more than any actual desire to do so.

straudetwo · « **Reply #70 on:** July 19, 2009, 11:45:00 AM »

JoanP
Claire was "inaccessible" yesterday because her e-mail address in her profile is hidden and I couldn't recall the one I had. That's why I brought that here.

It is not exactly easy to follow the ambitious path GB has taken in this book, alternating as she does between Hanna's professional trip to Sarajevo in 1996 to work on the Haggadah, and the circuitous travels of the codex itself over "way stations", told in self-contained chapters. While the dates of these way stations are documented (e.g. Venice 1609), the protagonists in these stories are the author's imaginary creations.

Are the characters portrayed in the separate stories credible? Why not? GB must have thought so!

I believe we must assume that the focus of the story IS the Haggadah, and that Hanna's personal story is merely the frame. In that case it stands to reason that the "way stations" have the same weight and significance as Hanna's personal story, and quite possibly carry more weight, because the codex endures; Hanna was merely the instrument.

It is important to remember that the war in Europe began on September 1, 1939. Lola's story takes place in wartime, not prior to it. As for the purpose of including this story, I believe GB wanted to explain what happened in and around Sarajevo at that time. An essential part were the Partisans, rag-tag bands of nationalists, some of the Communist persuasion, fighting behind enemy lines, often right under the noses of the Nazis. A man nicknamed Tito was their founder. He became Yugoslavia's leader in 1945 at the end of the war.

GB makes an important mention in this chapter : the emerging hope of young Jews to find a new homeland in Palestine and the beginning of immigration.

GB has a talent for describing characters, their appearances, quirks and mannerisms. The abundance of adjectives sometimes perhaps a bit de trop.

winsummm · « **Reply #71 on:** July 19, 2009, 11:55:05 AM »

the first chapter in the first person pov is more intimate because it shows while the second in the third person pov tells. the old maxim show don't tell works very well here. a good teaching tool for a creative writing class here.

traude I'm here... this is really the only discussion I follow right now. The bookies are interesting people.

claire

winsummm · « **Reply #72 on:** July 19, 2009, 12:08:55 PM »

sense of obligation with Lola's story. I did too but mostly because of the trials and tribulations she and the others endured. I found myself going right along with that mule and the tragic end to principal characters upsets me.

claire

winsummm · « **Reply #73 on:** July 19, 2009, 12:17:34 PM »

gum and joanP

I would like to be able to visualize hanna as well. right now she looks like my daughter dark straight hair and a sensative face. don't keep me waiting too long. I won't be able to switch gears.

claire

PatH · « **Reply #74 on:** July 19, 2009, 01:23:02 PM »

I found the second chapter perfectly believable, and it held my attention well. Yes, there are some slips: the rock face probably only seemed vertical, and any mule worth its salt would have given a novice like Lola a harder time than Rid did, but it captures the desperation of the fleeing Lola very well, and it further brings out some of the main themes—the many relocations of the Jews (and the Haggadah too) as they are chased and expelled by their persecutors, the kindness of strangers of good will to unfortunates of a different faith or ethnicity, and the remarkable ability of the book to survive and inspire people to risk their lives for it. And, as Claire points out, the battering of Sarajevo and the early stages of the emigration to Israel.

winsummm · « **Reply #75 on:** July 19, 2009, 03:14:25 PM »

my e-mail addresses

for personal is with g-mail and regular is with cox my isp

31328csr@gmail.com

winsum19@cox.net

I don't know why it is hidden but gliches happen so here are both of them.

I just visited my profile and didn't see a place for my e-mail since I'm not at any of the ones suggested. but I did put in a picture now about five years old.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #76 on:** July 19, 2009, 04:25:01 PM »

I thought the alternation between Hanna's story and the Haggadah's story was very effective. Using the third person distances us from it and makes it less real, more fancifu, which suits perfectly IMHO. While the trials of the Haggadah and its protectors are horrific they take on the aura of myth. Hanna is hard-edged, almost brittle, switching from her professional personna to one who's a victim of her mother's coldness and distance. Her romantic fling with Orzen was predictable because she is seeking to fill the vaccuum, greedy for the emotions of her partners since she knows not how to feel them herself.

straudetwo · « **Reply #77 on:** July 19, 2009, 07:15:39 PM »

Claire
Thanks so much for the e-mail addresses. Have duly recorded them.
LOVE the pix.

PatH · « **Reply #78 on:** July 19, 2009, 07:25:43 PM »

Quote from: mrssherlock on July 19, 2009, 04:25:01 PM

While the trials of the Haggadah and its protectors are horrific they take on the aura of myth.

RIGHT ON, Jackie! That's just how I feel. In fact your whole post expresses my reactions better than I have.

besprechen · « **Reply #79 on:** July 19, 2009, 08:51:59 PM »

I am very pleased to be following the discussion on this book. I spent much time before it began in Internet research and feel it has enriched my understanding of the Haggadah, of which I knew nothing before this book selection. Within that research I found the name of the actress who has acquired film rights to this book. Whether she is planning to be the actress lead in the movie version or not, remains to be seen. She could be considering the role of Director. If it will not be a "spoiler" for you to know, I place this link for you to explore...or not:

http://www.geraldinebrooks.com/

Thanks to each of you for insightful and meaningful comments on this book, I am in the process of reading, so will continue to follow and enjoy all the comments.

News:

Author Topic: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online (Read 112665 times)

besprechen