Author Topic: Non-Fiction  (Read 439695 times)

maryz

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2360 on: December 08, 2012, 09:07:03 PM »


TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK

What are you reading?  Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?

Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it. 

Let's talk books!


Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold



We watched a fascinating documentary tonight.

The Rape of Europa is a 2007 documentary based on a book of the same name by Lynn H. Nichols.  The envelope from Netflix says “Joan Allen narrates this documentary that chronicles 12 years of the Nazis’ pillaging works of art throughout Europe and the international effort to locate, protect and return millions of valuable treasures.  The film traces the story of art lovers and everyday heroes who tried to thwart the looting Nazis and reveals how experts from Europe and the United States are working to recover priceless works of art missing or hidden for decades.”
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

FlaJean

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2361 on: December 08, 2012, 11:10:13 PM »
Maryz that sounds really interesting.

Babi

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2362 on: December 09, 2012, 08:41:35 AM »
 That does sound good, MARYZ.  In a recent book (fiction) that I read it said
there is also a very profitable fraud racket going on selling bogus 'recovered' art
treasures.  Did this documentary discuss the issue of Swiss banks continuing to
hide such treasures placed in their vaults?  I don't know if that legal issue has
been resolved or not.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

ginny

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2363 on: December 09, 2012, 10:42:37 AM »
Maryz, does the title have anything to do with the mosaic of that same name from the Villa San Marco in Stabiae, Italy?

maryz

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2364 on: December 09, 2012, 12:00:49 PM »
Babi, I don't remember their mentioning anything about the Swiss banks and the thefts.  One good story was about the Salt Lake City Art Museum returning a painting to the heir of its owner just a few years ago.  The museum had bought the painting in good faith, and when the situation was discovered, thought returning it was the only honorable thing to do.

ginny, I don't know about the title.  I know about the work of art.  I haven't seen the book, just the documentary.  It may be mentioned in the book somewhere.
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

Tomereader1

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2365 on: December 09, 2012, 12:25:07 PM »
The "Rape of Europa" movie is very, very interesting, but there is a book out by the same name, showing everything you saw in the documentary, and more.  Your library may have a copy, or get an inter-library loan, it's worth it.
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

BarbStAubrey

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“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

maryz

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2367 on: December 09, 2012, 01:03:47 PM »
Great sites, Barb.  I've read and seen a number of things about the issue - just thought this was a good piece and wanted to recommend it.
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2368 on: December 09, 2012, 01:57:46 PM »
Glad you did - on this day it seems appropriate to share how this is an issue brought to our attention by many good journalists - The losses are so great that you have to wonder how those living get on with the reminders of what their life was before - they endured every degradation the mind could conceive. Did I read recently that the last survivor living in Israel had died?
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

JoanK

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2369 on: December 09, 2012, 04:02:19 PM »
When I lived in Israel in the sixties, I knew many of those survivors, and saw the scars they carried with them (visable and invisable) throughout their lives.

Babi

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2370 on: December 10, 2012, 08:34:32 AM »
 I admire the museums integrity, MARYZ. It was the proper thing to do, but it must have been a costly decision. It would be satisfying to read that the crooks
responsible for the theft or those who handled the marketing were identified and
prosecuted.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

mabel1015j

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2371 on: December 10, 2012, 01:30:05 PM »

Here is the reason we all love to read and then chat about what we read...... It gets our "good" juices going in our brains.......this is an interesting article about neurohistory - how striving for those good feelings effected history! This is very intriguing.

http://hnn.us/articles/history-meets-neuroscience

Jean

JoanK

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2372 on: December 10, 2012, 02:33:56 PM »
Mabel: that's fascinating. And scary! We are all addicted to reading because it releases dopomines?

Babi

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2373 on: December 11, 2012, 09:15:16 AM »
A fascinating article, JEAN. I read far more of it than I intended; it was so
engrossing. And it makes such perfect sense. I do want to learn more about this
new 'neurohistory'.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

mabel1015j

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2374 on: December 11, 2012, 12:52:28 PM »
Babi, here are several links from the History News Network on "neurohistory."

http://hnn.us/articles/insights-social-sciences-and-life-sciences-relevant-history

FlaJean

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2375 on: December 11, 2012, 01:00:37 PM »
My husband and I watched on Netflix that documentary recommended here "The Rape of Europa", and found it most interesting.  I had read about the art recovered for their rightful owners but didn't realize the extent of the terrible pillage by the Nazis.  Thanks Maryz and Tome, I believe.

maryz

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2376 on: December 11, 2012, 03:36:11 PM »
Glad you liked it, FlaJean.
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

Babi

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2377 on: December 12, 2012, 09:00:10 AM »
 A terrific site, JEAN. Does 'Network' mean they also have a TV channel?  There are references to many subjects I would enjoy knowing more about. I don't do much 'reading' on-line. It's time-consuming, and Val needs the computer for her job. Meanwhile, I've jotted down some names and references for follow-up. Thanks for introducing HNN.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

mabel1015j

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2378 on: December 12, 2012, 11:46:35 AM »
No, BABI, sorry, no tv channel. The newsletter is a collection of articles from and about historians. Altho they do show a listing of CPANs History TV and sometimes other "history things" on tv. I enjoy the newsletter and scan a little everyday.

Jean

Babi

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2379 on: December 13, 2012, 09:03:03 AM »
 Ah, well.  I will still keep alert for further news on this fascinating new branch of
'history'.  A happy combination of two subjects that interest me: history and the human
brain/mind.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

bellemere

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2380 on: December 20, 2012, 04:15:15 PM »
Catherine the Great:
 After a slow start, crowede with the family ties of a host of German and Russian families, the teenage German girl finally gets to Russia as the prospective bride of the heir to the throne.  Then things get really interesting, with many excerpts from Catherine's own memoirs. anoterh triumph for Robert Massie, I never thought he could top Nicholas and Alexandra, or Peter the Great.

Babi

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2381 on: December 21, 2012, 08:29:51 AM »
  Are all Massie's biographies about Russian royalty, BELLE?  Has he ever said why
his interest is focused there?  I'm guessing his own studies have made him an
expert in that particular area.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

Frybabe

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2382 on: December 21, 2012, 10:52:55 AM »
Massie does seem to have a thing for royalty, especially Russian royalty. Four of his books are on Russian royalty. His son was born with hemophelia which is what kicked off his interest in the Romanov family. His book (written with his former wife), Journey, is about raising his son and the differences between French and US health care systems at the time. I didn't realize that Catherine the Great: Portrait of a Lady was just new in 2011.

BTW, his son, Massie IV, is also an author, politician, and Episcopal priest. He ran for Senate in 2011, but gave up the race when Elizabeth Warren entered.  His new book, out this year, is A Song in the Night: A Memoir of Resilience.

marjifay

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2383 on: December 21, 2012, 01:19:46 PM »
I have read Massie's Peter the Great and his Dreadnaught; Britain, Germany and the Coming of the Great War.  Very good.  I will add his Catherine the Great to my future reading list..  Thanks, Bellemare.

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

Babi

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2384 on: December 22, 2012, 08:57:57 AM »
 Interesting what can open a door of interest in a person's life, FRYBABE.  Thanks
for the information on Massie.  I was especially interested in the son's successful
life.  I had a SIL with hemophilia, an extremely bright young man, but with problems in socializing.  He unfortunately died at a comparatively early age.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

mabel1015j

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2385 on: December 22, 2012, 01:59:35 PM »
There was a good older bio of Catherine. I owned it decades ago, but i think i put it in the library book sale and don't have it any more. It s a fascinating story. I assume a new bio would have new information.

I asked for the two new books on "introverts" from library loan. I just got the first one "Introvert Power". I read about 30 pages last night, it speaks to me. :)

 I did a lot of training of managers and employees in personality types. Everyone seeing me in the front of the groups and facilitating discussions was always surprised when i said i was an introvert. But i definitely need my introspective time and a favorite part of my teaching and training was doing the research - all by myself. Of course, there is a large mythology that introverts are "antisocial", sitting in the corner, being shy. We may sit in the corner, but we're observing what is going on and are not at all lonely and bored. Also, there are varying degrees of introversion and extroversion and we all have some of each. The biggest difference is that those who are more introverted give out energy when interacting with others and extraverts get energized by interaction with others. Therefore, introverts need to be alone and recoup some energy, to mull over what has been happening, to be introspective. Our extraverted friends and family don't understand because they would be bored and lonely by themselves in short order. We are very comfortable w/ ourselves - unless we've bought the American mythology that one must be outgoing and social all the time, then we may feel guilty about taking our me-time.

JoanK

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2386 on: December 22, 2012, 02:32:00 PM »
I was surprised when living abroad to find that one of the stereotypes about Americans is that they need to be with others all the time or they are bored. I don't know if There are more extroverts among Americans or if that's because Americans are usually seen in tour groups.

I'm definately an introvert, needing a balance in my life between alone time and time with others. Too much either way makes me unhappy. That balance is very hard to acheive as a working person. Now, in retirement, I come closest.

Interesting about giving off energy versus receiving it. I never thought of that. I'll bet you're right.

CallieOK

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2387 on: December 22, 2012, 02:52:30 PM »
Mabel,  I appreciate your comments about introverts.  The description fits me perfectly.  I sometimes struggle to keep from getting annoyed with my extrovert friends who think it's weird that I like being alone for long stretches of time.
Even on tours, I would sometimes skip a sightseeing excursion just to have some "alone" time in which I didn't have to "sparkle".

maryz

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2388 on: December 22, 2012, 03:37:18 PM »
Another interesting distinction between people is those who are inner motivated and those who are outer motivated. 

Years ago, we were in a group that got to talking about a then-upcoming Olympics.  The group almost immediately polarized into those who felt that athletes competed in order to hear the roar of the crowd and receive the adulation; and those who felt that such athletes had to be responding to inner compulsions to better previous times/distances/whatever.  Neither side could believe anyone would work that hard for the "rewards" the other side believed to be the motivation.  It really surprised us to hear how positive each side was.  John and I were more believers in the inner motivation, but could see how the others could think what they did.  The "outer motivation" people felt the "inners" were either lying to the world or to themselves if they professed an inner motivation.  It was fascinating.

Guess that's sort of up there with the introvert/extrovert dichotomy.  I, too, have to have both, but probably need more alone time than "public".
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

JoanK

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2389 on: December 22, 2012, 04:57:47 PM »
Mary: that's fascinating! Given the amount of time atheletes spend training without a crowd, I'd think they would need some inner rewards. But maybe they have a crew that cheers them on when they're training.

Frybabe

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2390 on: December 23, 2012, 07:28:47 AM »
Bingo, Jean.

Babi

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2391 on: December 23, 2012, 09:06:22 AM »
 JEAN, I so much appreciate your comments on introverts. I tend to be a 'loner' and
always saw it as a shortcoming. Nevertheless, as you said, I find my introspective
times very sustaining and helpful. I was startled by the statement that introverts
'give out energy' when interacting with others, but the more I think about it, the
more it appears that could be true.

 Reading the following posts, it appears that introverts may predominate among this
group of bookies. Wouldn't you all say that an on-line discussion offers the perfect
medium for 'introvert' friends?  They can come in an 'sparkle' when they want to,
and not be faulted if they don't.   
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

mabel1015j

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2392 on: December 23, 2012, 12:44:50 PM »
Joan, when i was first doing training in personality types, introverts were thought to be about a third of the population. In 1997 Myers-Briggs, the mother ship of personality types, did a huge survey and now say that introverts are slighty over 50% of the population. The descrepency seems to have come about because we have become an extroverted society: we are expected to be outgoing and social, we work in teams - even in kindergarden, the cocktail party/happy hour is expected to be a fun, loud group experience, the salesperson must be outgoing and friendly, we are expected to want to join the PTA, the jr league, the lions club, etc. So, introverts adapt and often look like extroverts, or for a short time ARE extroverted, but then must go away and recoup some energy.

Mary, that was a very interesting discussion and very well mayhave been a division of E's and I's. E's look outside of themselves for stimulation, I's go inside of their brains. It has now even been shown that I's brains are more active when they appear to be quiet than E's brains. Of course, the second category of personality types is how do you like to take in information? The sensing types get information thru their senses - what did they feel, hear, taste, smell, experience. Intuitive types tend to say "what if" and rely more on what they sense. So, those who were opting for "the crowd response" may have been S types who would want to hear, see and feel the crowd response. The N type (an I has been already used for introvert, so the N is used for intuitive) may be happier with knowing the results for themselves.

The point to remember is that we all are some combination of the two, the question is which do we prefer and how much do we prefer it. I am a 60/40 introvert. I have had two friends who were 90/10 extroverts. It is not uncommon for us to gravitate to the opposite type, altho it can become hazardous in marriages if the two don't appreciate the strengths of the other type. What seemed entertaining while dating can drive one crazy 24/7. "Why does she have to talk every issue to death?" (Es talk though their problems in order to understand them, Is want to understand their problems before talking about them.)"How come she sits in a corner at a party and wants to go home at 11:00 when the party is just getting started?" ( he's gotten energy from the party, she's expended her energy.)  A woman in one group i was working with said "i should have done this before i got married the first time. I thought he hated all my friends, he always wanted to leave a party." she was probably a 90/10 E and was always looking for the next party. It served her well, she owned a very successful beauty salon.

Yes Babi, i would guess that a lot of people on seniorlearn are Is. It's not intrusive, we come on when we want; it's about an introspective activity - reading; we can feel like a community, but not be overwhelmed by stimuli. Your point is well taken about "not being faulted if we don't", Is often are guilt tripped by Es -who don't understand us - who think we are being snobs because we don't want to go to lunch with them everyday, or want to sit on the side and observe. Pity the poor I child who is told "stop reading, go play w/ the others" or is driven from basketball to dance lessons, to play group.
It's a fascinating study. The other type categories have to do with how you make decisions -feeling or thinking/considering people or things in your decision making,  and how structured you like to be - do you like to keep your options open or do you have an agenda/list you must follow?

mabel1015j

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2393 on: December 23, 2012, 12:51:32 PM »
Here's the Amazon link to the book i'm reading

http://www.amazon.com/Introvert-Power-Inner-Hidden-Strength/dp/1402211171

The hot book on the topic at the moment is Quiet by Susan Cain. I'll get you a link......

http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/dp/0307352145

The reviews of both books are very interesting. There are a lot of us out there! Lol

FlaJean

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2394 on: December 23, 2012, 01:38:55 PM »
Very interesting, Jean, the discussion on introverts.  I am definitely an introvert but have always been interested in what is going on around me.  I've noticed whenever attending a small group lecture, etc., the speaker sort of "hones in" on me, and I suppose she/he senses my interest.  Sadly, I've noticed that I've become more of an introvert as I have grown older.  I say sadly because I have to push myself to interact more with others, and I depend more and more for fellowship with my family and husband.

marjifay

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2395 on: December 23, 2012, 01:42:56 PM »
I was surprised, Babi, to see you refer to yourself as an introvert.  From your thoughtful and interesting posts, I would have guessed you to be very a very outgoing person. 

I wouldn't place myself somewhere between that and an extrovert.  I have no trouble talking with strangers, and find that once you can get someone talking you find they have very interesting things to say, especially if they are readers/and thoughtful people.

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2396 on: December 23, 2012, 03:41:57 PM »
Introvert extravert never did know or thought about it except I do know I need me time and lots of it - I thought it was because I live alone but I realize I always had my time - I would bicycle to my spots - and take the dog for a walk to get out of the fray and thank god for nap time when the children where young and I often stayed up too late just to have some time - not really to do anything - not even to read so much as just be with myself and sometimes to just look around and enjoy the home I created or the place I was walking. And yes, I get tense to the point of a stress headache often because it is an effort to be with others - always watching my Ps and Qs to say things that will not disagree unless it is really important. Always measuring and watching and listening and adjusting what I say - but I was like that since I was a young child.

As to groups of Americans traveling - it is often cheaper so it enables folks to travel who only travel a few times in their life and many do not like to experience a new place without a guide that a travel group affordably provides - it is also a handicap that we do not speak a variety of languages therefore to have someone to share our observations and share some fun a group offers us some temporary friends, who we may not know but there is some things in common if only our language - I think anyone in Europe that sees this as a problem has not traveled to the US to know and understand our culture but they are talking from their own experience. Massachusetts can be as culturally different from Mississippi, Montana or Missouri as France is from Germany, Italy and England.  And so I see Europeans comfortable in a variety of nations just because there is a commonality if only in transportation where as we have that similar comfort level traveling to states across this nation that is easily as large a land mass and Europe.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

JeanneP

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2397 on: December 23, 2012, 09:15:11 PM »
CallieOK.

Now I have travelled by myself mostly alone for over 40 years. Prefer being single and like being alone a lot. I don't think we are introverts.Just that we like our own company. I love meeting new people. Ones you enjoy but will never see them again once the meeting over. Met some great one all over US. Europe . Never gone in for being a joiner. Had 5 of the best friends who 4 died before age 50. Get along with people fine when both working and now retired.
I suppose there a people who think I am a little strange also. But then I think that these that always have to have people around them are strange also.  We are not going to change. We like it.

Babi

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2398 on: December 24, 2012, 09:27:14 AM »
Thank you for your kind comment, MARJ. But if you find me thoughtful, it's because
of the quiet times spent thinking.  Naturally, now that I am deaf and communication
has become much more difficult, I tend to withdraw from crowds more and more. I'm quite comfortable with that, and trust my loved ones to understand.

 BARB, I imagine those working with the public always have to 'watch their P's and Q's. All three of my offspring have jobs that require dealing with the public, and some of the stories they tell are hilarious...after the fact. It is stressful.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

mabel1015j

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Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2399 on: January 07, 2013, 01:51:32 PM »
I thought some of you who read the Audubon bio might like to read this assessment of him and see some of his paintings again - from a history blogger, Historiann.

http://b-womeninamericanhistory19.blogspot.com/search/label/A%20Audubon?m=1

Jean