Author Topic: Non-Fiction (Read 439608 times)

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #320 on:** May 26, 2009, 01:03:20 PM »

HELLO MARJFAY!

Frances Perkins is a fascinating woman, and SMART!!!

But she had rather a sad life. Career women, ambitious woman often have trouble with family issues. On the other hand, how many women get a book written about their lives? Is that a trade-off?

It's a good book!

WOULD YOU LIKE TO DISCUSS IT WITH A FEW OTHERS (hopefully!) IN AUGUST?

marjifay · « **Reply #321 on:** May 26, 2009, 01:53:46 PM »

Yes, I'd like to read the Frances Perkins bio (THE WOMAN BEHIND THE NEW DEAL) for an August discussion, Ella. It's only 480 pp, so (unlike Team of Rivals), I could finish it before having to return it to the library.)

marjifay · « **Reply #322 on:** May 26, 2009, 02:09:57 PM »

Oh, and thanks, Ella, for your recommendation of Kenneth Silverman's LIGHTNING MAN, about the "accursed" life of Samuel Morse. I looked up that author's other books and found another one of his I'd like to read: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF COTTON MATHER, for which he won a Pulitzer. I'd heard of Mather and always intended to read about him.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #323 on:** May 26, 2009, 10:09:50 PM »

Oh, good! I'll have to get back to you with that proposal!

ANNIE · « **Reply #324 on:** May 27, 2009, 08:47:34 AM »

Ella,
Sounds like you are in the planning mode for a new discussion. I am interested in reading about Frances Perkins but also would like to read about Samuel Morse.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #325 on:** May 27, 2009, 12:29:46 PM »

HI ANN! That's makes about three of us interested in the book.

Anyone else?

Here is a review:

"Frances Perkins is no longer a household name, yet she was one of the most influential women of the twentieth century. Based on eight years of research, extensive archival materials, new documents, and exclusive access to Perkins’s family members and friends, this biography is the first complete portrait of a devoted public servant with a passionate personal life, a mother who changed the landscape of American business and society.

Frances Perkins was named Secretary of Labor by Franklin Roosevelt in 1933. As the first female cabinet secretary, she spearheaded the fight to improve the lives of America’s working people while juggling her own complex family responsibilities. Perkins’s ideas became the cornerstones of the most important social welfare and legislation in the nation’s history, including unemployment compensation, child labor laws, and the forty-hour work week.

Arriving in Washington at the height of the Great Depression, Perkins pushed for massive public works projects that created millions of jobs for unemployed workers. She breathed life back into the nation’s labor movement, boosting living standards across the country. As head of the Immigration Service, she fought to bring European refugees to safety in the United States. Her greatest triumph was creating Social Security.

Written with a wit that echoes Frances Perkins’s own, award-winning journalist Kirstin Downey gives us a riveting exploration of how and why Perkins slipped into historical oblivion, and restores Perkins to her proper place in history.

ANNIE · « **Reply #326 on:** May 27, 2009, 01:54:12 PM »

I have requested the book from our library which owns 14 copies which are all checked out and I am 13th on the waiting list. So we will see how long it takes to arrive and if I need to rereserve it later in the summer, around the discussion date.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #327 on:** May 30, 2009, 01:01:09 PM »

ANN, I understand its popularity. The book is well written, but for those of us who are a certain age you will recall, when you read it, many of the problems in the country during the depression, the Roosevelt and the Truman years. Frances was there on the scene during all of that; actually, she was at times the most important member of the team that brought us such programs as social security, the regulation of hours and wages, prohibition of child labor, etc.

Her relationships with family and public figures (whom you will be familiar with if you followed the news back in that era) are fascinating. And there is this:

"Few women had climbed as high in public life as Frances, and many were reluctant to attribute her rise to the simple fact of her proven competence. The public often assumed sex was involved when women took over important posts."

Throughout her life she rose above the stigma of being a woman although it was difficult as she was surrounded by men - men who had achieved much in life and had huge egos.

Appointed by Roosevelt to a cabinet post, she wrestled with this complicated man throughout her life. Here is one paragraph"

"In time, Frances developed a deeper friendship with Franklin Roosevelt than with Eleanor. Indeed, Frances had set out very purposefully to learn how FDR thought and to maximize her effectiveness. Roosevelt appeared extremely complicated from the very first conversation."

mabel1015j · « **Reply #328 on:** May 31, 2009, 12:04:47 AM »

Ella - i would be interested.............jean

kidsal · « **Reply #329 on:** May 31, 2009, 04:38:58 AM »

Gertrude Bell, Queen of the Desert, is a wonderful book. Surprised there wasn't more interest in this book during the beginning of the Iraq war because she was so influential during WWI and the drawing of the borders of Iraq. She began the Bagdhad Museum. There are quit a few books about her - a daughter of a wealthy industrialist in England. Wish they would make a movie of her life!

Frybabe · « **Reply #330 on:** May 31, 2009, 09:06:44 AM »

Kidsal, I bought the Gertrude Bell book about six months ago, but haven't read it yet. I gave it to my Mom to read in the meantime. She enjoyed it immensely. One of these days, I'll get around to reading it.

I've read T.E. Lawrence's Seven Pillars of Wisdom and several of his other books. I know he was not happy about promises to the Arabs not kept and about how the countries were partitioned. What I don't remember is whether he ever mentioned Bell.

Babi · « **Reply #331 on:** May 31, 2009, 09:09:19 AM »

Tongue in cheek.... I just read a mystery short story in which the sleuth was
Alice Roosevelt Longworth, pushed into involvement by her cousin the Sec. of the Navy, Franklin. Whom she fondly dreamed of throttling! It was amusing.

ginny · « **Reply #332 on:** May 31, 2009, 09:51:45 AM »

I'm reading Ayun Halliday's book No Touch Monkey!

It's about a different kind of travel than I do, backpacking, somewhat filthily, through Europe. It's an eye opener, she leaves nothing to the imagination, not the way I want to or would travel, but I'm not in my young 20's any more, and it's fascinating to see the "tricks" that they use to avoid paying hotel rooms etc.

So far it's pretty amazing, actually.

marjifay · « **Reply #333 on:** May 31, 2009, 11:55:07 AM »

I'm reading a very interesting book -- THE BITTER ROAD TO FREEDOM; A NEW HISTORY OF THE LIBERATION OF EUROPE by William L. Hitchcock. It was a finalist for the 2009 Pulitzer Prize for nonfiction.

I'm learning a lot of things about WW2 that I never new. A surprising story, often jarring and uncomfortable. Some amazing photos I've never seen of the destruction of towns in the path of the Normandy invasion. Depicts in searing detail the shocking price that Europeans paid for their freedom. The author says he realized that the different experiences of Europeans and Americans of the liberation of Europe was behind their disagreement on invading Iraq.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #334 on:** May 31, 2009, 04:50:03 PM »

MARJIFAY: What a interesting statement you made:

The author says he realized that the different experiences of Europeans and Americans of the liberation of Europe was behind their disagreement on invading Iraq."

Would you elaborate on that, please?

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #335 on:** May 31, 2009, 06:47:20 PM »

My copy of the Frances Perkins Biography on order from B&N should arrive before the end of the current week.

Harold

serenesheila · « **Reply #336 on:** May 31, 2009, 06:47:47 PM »

The Frances Perkins book sounds good to me. August works, too. So, count me in.

Sheila

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #337 on:** June 01, 2009, 09:49:37 AM »

HAROLD, you will enjoy the book. You'll recall all of the incidents related in the book, e.g. dockworker strikes, price controls. I had not thought of these things in years but they all came under the Department of Labor which Frances Perkins headed. With the advent of the containers, there is no such thing as dockworkers today - is that true? I don't know, but I don't read of many strikes, do you?

SHEILA, thanks! We're getting a good group together here. We will, however, do a proposal sometime when I get it together!

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #338 on:** June 01, 2009, 10:26:07 AM »

Regarding Dock workers today, I suspect the work is much more automated. Instead of gangs of dozens of muscular men carrying 80 pound bags of grain from dock to ship, the grain is blown through large diameter hoses from dockside elevators to the ship. Far fewer dockworkers making good union wages now connect the hoses that deliver the grain to the ship.

marjifay · « **Reply #339 on:** June 01, 2009, 05:44:06 PM »

Ella, you asked about the statement from a reviewer regarding the book THE BITTER ROAD TO FREEDOM that "The author says he realized that the different experiences of Europeans and Americans of the liberation of Europe was behind their disagreement on invading Iraq."

I'm only about a third of the way through the book, but I think what the author meant was that the Europeans realized that what happened to them would be the fate of a great number of Iraqis. On D-Day alone, some 3,000 French civilians were killed, roughly as many as the number of American soldiers who lost their lives on that day. And that was only the beginning. The Germans were entrenched in the towns, villages, farms, hospitals and other buildings, and the allies' bombing and straffing killed not only Germans. Between D-Day, June 6 and August 25, he says, about 20,000 French civilians in the five nothern departments (counties) of Normandy where fighting was heaviest, paid for liberation with their lives.

He also talks about what some of the soldiers did as they moved into Normandy. The power that liberating soldiers possessed over the civilians whom they freed, he says, opened up enticing avenues of privilege and temptation for these young, male soldiers: Even the best of them consumed scarce food and drink and were capable of drunkeness and vandalism, with some going further and looting homes and sexually assaulting women. The author quotes not only from European sources, but also from the countless memoirs, diaries, letters and oral testimonies of British and American soldiers themselves.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #340 on:** June 01, 2009, 06:43:01 PM »

Thanks for the post, Marjifay; however, I don't understand why there is disagreement between the two - the Europeans and Americans. I know about D-Day and its aftermath but I have an idea the Europeans created as much havoc among civilians as did the Americans. They were all fighting for the same cause, to free Europe of Hitler's menace.

Isn't it farfetched to bring Iraq into this scenario? Who are the good guys, the bad guys in the Iraq war? Are the Americans the bad guys here? Are we the Hitler menace?

Harold, yes, I agree; more jobs have been eliminated because of "automation." Fortunately, the computer era has taken up some of the slack in unemployment don't you think?

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #341 on:** June 01, 2009, 06:47:35 PM »

The Washington Post has a great article regarding Frances Perkins. Here it is:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/06/AR2009050602612.html?sub=AR

Of course, the author of the book is Washington Post staff writer, it helps!!

Here are a few paragraphs from the article; however, read the whole of it for better content:

"When Franklin D. Roosevelt assumed the presidency in the midst of the Depression, he was flanked by a prestigious brain trust of economic and political advisers: Adolf Berle, Raymond Moley and Rexford Guy Tugwell, all Columbia University professors. These were the Larry Summerses and Tim Geithners of their day, spouting elevated theories and cultivating lavish media coverage.

The president was casting about for a plan to slash unemployment, boost incomes and give relief to the needy. Yet the early stimulus effort that ultimately won most support was not engineered by these high-powered advisers. It came together through the efforts of a former social worker, a plain woman with luminous dark eyes, an individual of unique emotional intelligence whom Roosevelt appointed as his secretary of labor: Frances Perkins.

Perkins had known Roosevelt for two decades, and the two had worked together for four years, when she was state industrial commissioner while Roosevelt served as governor of New York. The only woman in the Cabinet, Perkins had spent almost 30 years studying the American workplace, talking to laborers and employers in factories, retail stores, harbors, mines and mills across the country. She was exactly the kind of person a neophyte president needed by his side.

I wonder, does Barack Obama have a Frances Perkins somewhere in his administration?"

marjifay · « **Reply #342 on:** June 01, 2009, 11:23:39 PM »

Ella, there was disagreement between Europe and the U.S. re sending troops into Iraq. Bush had one heck of a time getting other countries to volunteer troops.

As to bringing Iraq into the scenario, I've heard estimates that some 78,000 or more Iraqis were killed by U.Sl. and "coalition" airstrikes. And look at all the displaced people. Some estimate that about 2 million refugees, including their skilled professional doctors, lawyers, educators, etc., have escapted to other countries like Syria and Jordan.
Not to mention their other problems with unemployment, poverty, lack of electicity, water, etc.

IMO, the "bad guys' were us who started the war in Iraq.

Babi · « **Reply #343 on:** June 02, 2009, 08:37:59 AM »

We may not be "bad guys", ELLA, but there is no question that we were the
invaders. War is always a situation of extreme hardship for the country where it is fought. In the Allied invasion of WWII, the horror of the Nazi rule made defeat of the Nazis imperative. The loss of life from genocide far outweighed the losses incurred by invasion. The French were glad to see the liberating armies. We can't say the same about the Iraqi's. I suspect there will always be disagreements about how necessary our intervention there was.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #344 on:** June 02, 2009, 11:02:33 AM »

Thanks, MARJIFAY AND BABI for your posts. I agree we were the invaders; however, to put us in the same category of Germany's Hitler is too much for me to swallow. We did not intend to conquer, did we?

True, we made errors of judgment (Bush's war) in the aftermath of the horror of the bombing of the Towers. And true we did unimaginable damage to civilians, property, etc. How to prevent future wars of this kind is a problem; I think, we must control such "interventions" such as these. Right now, North Korea is a threat and I remember that was in Bush's "axis of evil" speech.

marjifay · « **Reply #345 on:** June 02, 2009, 07:29:39 PM »

I read an interesting book on North Korea: MELTDOWN; THE INSIDE STORY OF THE NORTH KOREAN NUCLEAR CRISIS by CNN reporter Mike Chinoy.

Another book about the North Korean Kim dynasty that was recommended to me is UNDER THE LOVING CARE OF THE FATHERLY
LEADER by Bradley K. Martin.

I hear that their "Dear Leader," Kim Jong Il, has designated his youngest son, Kim Jong Un to be their next leader. They've already written a song in the son's honor, "Commander Kim," which they are teaching the people to sing.

Babi · « **Reply #346 on:** June 03, 2009, 08:58:03 AM »

Oh, definitely not in the same category as Hitler's Nazis, ELLA. On the contrary!

Quote

"...which they are teaching the people to sing."

I think that is how a dynasty becomes the'fatherly leader', MARJIFAY. This sort of propaganda and mind control. The Chinese are especially good at this.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #347 on:** June 03, 2009, 10:10:27 AM »

My Library doesn't have that book, Marjifay! But I think if we could find a good book about the country of N. Korea we could get a discussion going. Let's look. There is an interesting article in my paper this morning with the headline: China won't let N. Korea collapse.

Although China deplores N. Korea's nuclear testing, still it will not allow the regime to be overthrown. Communist countries stick together. However, the article by Gwynne Dyer states that the country of N. Korea is weak in every kind of weapon, planes, ships, etc.

Is this what you read in the book?

The current Secretary of Labor is a woman also, a fact I did not know until I read this morning that she is touring a few factories in Michigan and Ohio. It is interesting that in periods of economic distress the country finds itself in the hands of a female Secretary of Labor; not at all what one would expect. I must look up her background.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #348 on:** June 03, 2009, 10:19:59 AM »

Here she is: http://uspolitics.about.com/od/biographies/ig/Obama-Cabinet/Secretary-of-Labor.htm

Fairly young, I think, what do you think?

Wikipedia has this to say about cabinet officers, which I thought interesting:

"Though the Cabinet is still an important organ of bureaucratic management, in recent years, the Cabinet has generally declined in relevance as a policy making body. Starting with President Franklin Roosevelt, the trend has been for Presidents to act through the Executive Office of the President or the National Security Council (which generally does include some Cabinet secretaries) rather than through the Cabinet. This has created a situation in which non-Cabinet officials such as the White House Chief of Staff (who requires no Senate confirmation), the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, and the National Security Advisor are now as powerful as or more powerful than some Cabinet officials.

Indicative of the Cabinet's relative unimportance in contemporary American government, President Obama did not meet with his assembled Cabinet until a full three months into his administration."

marjifay · « **Reply #349 on:** June 03, 2009, 09:58:52 PM »

Yes, Ella, I would think a discussion on North Korea would be interesting. I'll look for some books on the subject. North Korea seems to spend all its money on its military and weapons. Sad how many of their people died (2-3 million) of starvation.

marjifay · « **Reply #350 on:** June 03, 2009, 10:13:41 PM »

Hope I'm not getting too political, but I read today that a large statue of Ronald Reagan has been placed in the U.S. Capitol Building today. (It seems that each state gets two statues there - not sure who the other one is from California.) There was a photo of Nancy Reagan with tears in her eyes as they installed it. Sad to say very few Democrats attended the ceremony. I'm a Democrat, but I did admire a lot about Reagan. Seems to me that since he was a former President, more Democrats should have attended.

I've been to the Reagan Library and Museam in Simi Valley, CA several times. A lovely building with a gorgeous view of the surrounding mountains. I always encourage friends to be sure to visit there if they come to Southern California.

ANNIE · « **Reply #351 on:** June 04, 2009, 08:02:28 AM »

Marifay,
I think that any presidential library is worth perusing even if that president isn't of one's party. I have only been through Jimmy Carter's library. which is in Atlanta. I took a large group there several years ago.
As to the Reagan library, just seeing him put to rest there gave some of us a real good view of the grounds. I lived in California before the library was finished so didn't get to see it.
Ella,
That is a surprise that N. Korea has a female Secretary of Labor. I saw a short news story about the new head of state, Kim Jong Un. Although he is young and the third son of Kim Jong Il, he is considered the smartest of the males in the family.

Babi · « **Reply #352 on:** June 04, 2009, 08:06:23 AM »

Quote

Indicative of the Cabinet's relative unimportance in contemporary American government, President Obama did not meet with his assembled Cabinet until a full three months into his administration."

That's interesting, ELLA. Since so many of them are new to their position, I wonder if he was just letting them get settled in, just as he was. I know I wouldn't have a great deal to contribute until I was more familiar with my job.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #353 on:** June 04, 2009, 08:49:46 AM »

ANN, my post was confusing. Sorry!

The Secretary of Labor that I was referring to in my Post of June 3rd was America's Secretary not N. Korea's. I thought it was interesting we now have a female Secretary of Labor in a time of recession as we had Frances Perkins as Secretary in the Depression. Of course, it just happened and was not intentional.

BABI, possibly, although I have heard this comment before from other sources. Presidents can appoint friends or former staff members to important offices in the White House without prior Congressional approval; whereas Cabinet offices, I think, must be approved by Congress.

Rahm Emanuel and Tim Geithner were from Obama's Chicago headquarters I believe and seem to be in almost daily contact with the president. I'm skating on thin ice here (or slipping on the the sidewalk!) as I am not sure of what I am typing!!!

MARJIFAY, thanks for the post. I hope you are successful in finding a good book on N. Korea.

marjifay · « **Reply #354 on:** June 04, 2009, 10:48:57 AM »

Yes, Annie, I agree that any presidential library is worth visiting even those not of one's own political party. You made me think. Here I was bemoaning that few Democrats attended the installation of Reagan's statue in the Capitol Building, yet I have never visited Nixon's library which is practically next door to my home, just because I disliked him so much. Guess it's about time I visited it.

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #355 on:** June 04, 2009, 02:07:14 PM »

My copy of the Frances Perkins book arrived yesterday and I have begun reading it.

Regarding the presidential libraries I think all are worthy for visitation. The one that is most available to me is the LBJ Library at the University of Texas in Austin. I have been their many times often to attend meeting on a variety of civic issues, one 6 years go on a seniors book discussion issue.

Also the Bush I Library at Texas A&M is in easy visitation range just 8o miles east of Austin. I have not been their but I am going to ask our Chandlers Activities Director to schedule a day trip there soon. I understand that the Bush II Library will be at Southern Methodist University at Dallas.

serenesheila · « **Reply #356 on:** June 04, 2009, 03:43:21 PM »

I am just begining a new, non fiction book, called: "War Against the Weak". Edwin Black is the author. It is fascinating! The story of eugenics. Thousands of people were sterilized. Many of them had no idea what their surgery was for.

I first learned about eugenics, by watching a history program on PBS. It seemed unbelievable to me, that my government had taken away the ability to have children, from thousands of our citizens. Recently, I watched a program on CSpan's Book Club, with Mr. Black. It is his contention that the seeds of the Holocaust were planted in America, with eugenics. Which began in the late 1800s.

It reads almost like a novel. I have trouble putting it down.

Sheila

Babi · « **Reply #357 on:** June 05, 2009, 08:15:03 AM »

ELLA, I may not be functioning too well yet this early in the morning, but I'm
missing the relationship between my comment and your reply in Post #353. Did I misunderstand you, or did you misunderstand me?

I have heard of proposals, from time to time, that people with terrible genetic
disorders should accept sterilizsation to prevent passing on the strain. It should be
voluntary, of course, but it seems a logical choice and one I definitely would consider
if I were in such a position. Involuntary sterilization of unwitting victims is an
entirely different thing. I think people who decide to take this sort of responsibility
on themselves must have a 'god' complex.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #358 on:** June 05, 2009, 04:05:36 PM »

Thanks, SHEILA, for the recommendation; perhaps we need to educate ourselves about the subject. I'll look up the book at the Library.

BABI, you function very well! At times, it is just too difficult for me to explain what is meant from a keyboard. Perhaps my age? Certainly not the age of reason!!

Babi · « **Reply #359 on:** June 06, 2009, 09:07:30 AM »

That I understand perfectly, ELLA. $:-\$

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Author Topic: Non-Fiction (Read 439608 times)