Author Topic: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Club Online  (Read 68097 times)

matthewpearl

  • Posts: 54
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #200 on: October 13, 2009, 10:44:56 AM »

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome to join in.

Click register at the top of the page to create a username and password so that you can post messages in the discussions here on SeniorLearn.

 
Welcome! Everyone is invited!  

We are happy to announce that the author, Matthew Pearl, is joining us in the discussion of his  latest novel, "The Last Dickens," as he did with his "Poe Story"  and "The Dante Club.

 Matthew's literary fiction picks up where Dickens left off in "The Mystery of Edwin Drood."  The story of the fate of Edwin Drood is a mystery within a mystery. When young Edwin disappears after dinner on Christmas Eve and his watch and chain are later found in the nearby river, everyone suspects foul play. Could one of Edwin’s acquaintances have murdered him – and, if so, what could their motive be?  Tragically, the mystery is destined never to be truly solved, as Dickens died before he could finish this novel – all that is left are the clues that can be found in the completed chapters.

Pearl  sends a partner of Dickens’ American publisher, James Osgood, to the Dickens' estate in England where we meet the "fugitives"  from the characters of Dickens' novel.  Is Edwin Drood dead or alive? Was he killed by his uncle, John Jasper? Or did he somehow escape that fate, possibly to return later?  We are anticipating more intrigue as Pearl's fictional characters search for answers in the author's well-researched fiction.

Chapter discussion schedule

October 1-6:     First Installment ~ Chapters 1-10 ~ June, 1870
October 7-10:   Second Installment ~  Chapters 11-17 ~ November, 1867
October 11-13: :    Third Installment ~  Chapters  18-22 ~ June, 1870
*October 15-17:   Fourth Installment ~ Chapters 23-26
October 18-23: Fifth Installment ~ Chapters 27-29
Oct. 24-28:  Fifth Installment cont. -  Chapters 30 - 39
October 29-31: Sixth Installment ~ Chapter 40/Historical note



Discussion Leaders: JoanP, Andy
 
       
Old Parker House Hotel - Boston
Some topics for discussion  Oct. 14-16: Chapters 23-26, Boston, Dec. 24, 1867


1. Was Dickens fully aware of the dangers he would face on this American tour?  If so, why would he risk his health and safety? What was the state of his health before he set out?

2.  Considering his poor health and dread of train and water travel, why did Dickens jump off the paddleboat in the middle of winter to save the drowning livestock?  What does this say about him?

3.  What did Louisa Parr Barton want from Dickens?  Do you think there really was such a person and was she as dangerous as Tom Branagan suspected?

4.  Why did Dickens insist on visiting the medical college basement with  Dr. Oliver Wendall Holmes  to see the place where George Parkman's remains were found?     Do you see a connection between this case and the next novel Dickens would write?

5. What was significant about William Godwin's novel  that Poe described to Dickens about - in which he wrote the second half of Caleb Williams before writing the first part?

6. Did you note Dickens' dinner at the White House? What effect would President Johnson's impeachment trial have on Dickens' tour?

7.  What is the promise Tom  about reading Dickens'  next novel? Do you think we will see more of Tom Branagan?

8.  Do you believe dreams predict the future?  Does Dickens?

9. Tom sleeps in Dickens'  bed to capture Mrs. Barton red-handed.  What do you think of the whole chase scene with Mrs. Barton kidnapping Dickens?  Has she really died?

10.  How did Dickens' last visit to America affect the last years of his life?  Was it worth it?  What did he do with all those (tax-free) American dollars?

Readers' Guide Questions from FIRST  - THIRD INSTALLMENTS


Related Links : SeniorLearn's Q & A with Author, Matthew Pearl; 19th century Boston publishing houses ; check out Mr. Osgood here; James R. Osgood Co. closes,  May, 1885 - NY Times ,   Listen to Matthew's Interview at the Parker House in Boston;


Some Recent Questions for Matthew:http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/lastdickens/lastdickens_q_a.html
New blog post at Red Room (spoiler free): Why you might want to read The Mystery of Edwin Drood without knowing it

ALF43

  • Posts: 1360
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #201 on: October 13, 2009, 10:51:14 AM »
I wonder if Dickens wrote about Drood and the Opium trade while having a fireside chat with this figurine.  Each Chinese figurine is original isn't it?  Aren't the real Chinese figurines individually hand crafted?  Thanks Joan for bringing the picture to us that is displayed in the Museum.  Did it say anyhting other than this was kept on Dicken's mante?

Deems -
Quote
The raising of the arm thing Andy was simply to follow the direction the "hypnotist" gave me which was along the lines of "raise your right arm very slowly."  I never was asked to "be" or "do" anyone/thing.


I know, I was only joking about the arm going in the air.  You'd already said that you did it intentionally.  :o
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

matthewpearl

  • Posts: 54
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #202 on: October 13, 2009, 11:00:37 AM »
P. 104 for the board game, not 108: sorry!

"1.The portrayal of Forster as a less than sympathetic character might be a subtle hint that Forster might not have been in on Dickens' confidence, as he claimed he was. Matthew, can you tell us if this is a documented description of Mr. Forster or is it fiction?"

Yes, Forster as I show him is as close as I was able to recreate Forster himself. What a character he was! If he seems like something Dickens would create you're right. Those who have read, or plan to read, Our Mutual Friend by Charles Dickens will notice a similarity between Forster and the character of Podsnap, which was obvious to everyone who knew Forster. And Forster and Dolby did not get along at all.

"2. I would be interested in asking Matthew if Dickens often did dabble in the supernatural? Did he learn his hypnotic lessons by the reading of these books that were found on his shelves? "

In my research, I was actually able to get an inventory of Dickens's books that were in his library when he died. That's the kind of thing you hope for! Dickens's family later auctioned off the books, which is why they did the inventory. So every book title you find in my novel was actually in the library. And yes, Dickens did study mesmerism and other spiritual topics, and often practiced mesmerism, to the point where it became a factor in his estrangement from his wife (who was upset that he was hypnotizing other women--there is something intimate about the practice, one could argue)

Ella Gibbons

  • Posts: 2904
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #203 on: October 13, 2009, 12:43:53 PM »
The will?  Dickens' will?  I see nothing untoward about it, except he did not want a funeral with mourners and no publicity about his death.  I understand that, neither do I, having made all my own arrangements and a very simple will.  I want no ceremony, no speeches, not even a minister; I will leave it God to judge me and not my fellow citizens left on earth.

This actor, Grunwald, a highly emotional fellow, nevertheless believes Dickens missed the most important aspect of life and that is "be happy in your children."  I agree, they are gifts to us and should be treasured.

Dickens was not a good father?????  Mamie and Katie do not speak ill of their father, do they?  I know that son in India did not love him, but..............  He had numerous children, right?  How quickly I forget statistics.

And the playwright, Stephens, states that "when we read, we use our brains, but when we watch a performance, we use our eyes, much more trivial organs."

Strange!  And Grunwald and Stephens argues daily about the fate of Drood.


ALF43

  • Posts: 1360
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #204 on: October 13, 2009, 01:14:24 PM »
 Oh Matthew, what a coup for you to be able to actually get an inventory of his books.  I love that- love it.  If that were me writing this great story, I would drool over the find. :P
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

ANNIE

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 2977
  • Downtown Gahanna
    • SeniorLearn
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #205 on: October 13, 2009, 02:10:29 PM »
Due to a bad night, I can't remember if Herman is the man with the cane.  And if so, was he called Herman in MED??
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

marcie

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 7802
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #206 on: October 13, 2009, 03:21:00 PM »
Ann, yes, Herman is the one with the gold monster cane.  I don't remember that character being in The Mystery of Edwin Drood.

SPOILER ALERT IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED INSTALLMENT THREE

Thanks for sharing the photo of the plaster figure, Joan. Someone (Herman?) appears to have stolen it from the auction house before the auction.

This installment was full of excitement. I couldn't put it down. I love the way you built up suspense, both in the India sections and the England sections. The opium theme seems to tie the two sections together.

Rebecca's feelings for Osgood are stirred by a bit of jealousy when she thinks that Osgood might be falling for Ms. Dickens. At the end of the installment it takes an opium stupor (from the smoke in the opium den or administered by Herman?) and beating for Osgood to realize that he loves Rebecca!  Rebecca was fearful for Osgood to go with "Datchery" and for good reason. Look what happened to him.

marcie

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 7802
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #207 on: October 13, 2009, 03:31:54 PM »
Ella, Dickens had seven sons and three daughters. There is some information about them at http://www.trivia-library.com/b/famous-family-history-charles-dickens-children.htm

The following site: http://www.perryweb.com/Dickens/life_children.shtml says that "when Dickens and Catherine [his wife] separated Kate was the only child to stand up to Dickens and side with Catherine."

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10954
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #208 on: October 13, 2009, 03:44:34 PM »
Right, Marcie, Herman did not appear in MED.  I forget who asked if we have heard him speak before.  He has a conversation with Bendall before killing him, and he has some rather vigorous things to say on board ship when he is caught robbing Osgood.

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #209 on: October 13, 2009, 04:05:35 PM »
Thank you for answering our questions, Matthew! ...and  for sharing your Red Room blog with us this morning.  Red Room is one of the new Reading Promotion Partners at the Library of Congess -  you all may know that SeniorNet and now SeniorLearn have been one of the LOC partners for the last ten years. I hope we can establish an on-line relationship with  Red Room.  Did you get a chance to read what Matthew said in his blog this morning?  If you missed it, I'll repeat the link here...
New blog post at Red Room (spoiler free): Why you might want to read The Mystery of Edwin Drood without knowing it

I was quite interested - in all of it, but particularly this -

Quote
Without giving anything away to those still in the avoidance stage, readers of The Mystery of Edwin Drood divide into two camps: the survivalists who think Edwin Drood lives beyond his uncle John Jasper's attempt on his life, and the traditionalists who believe Edwin dies. In support of the theories, readers point to clues in the original illustrations, the book's chapter headings, Dickens's working notes for the novel and his discarded ideas for the title.

Dickens knew well what questions he was setting us up to ask. Cloisterham, the novel's fictional town, was (writes Dickens's narrator) “pretty equally divided in opinion whether John Jasper's beloved nephew had been rolled by his passionate rival treacherously, or in an open struggle; or had, for his own purposes, spirited himself away.” Surely, the big reveal could not simply have been to pick one of these two choices we already know about, or could it? Ask me at your peril. I'm so indecisive I have trouble choosing from a restaurant menu even as a vegetarian when there are often only one or two choices.

I happen to think Dickens himself was still deciding how the story would come out when he died—a luxury of the serially published author—

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #210 on: October 13, 2009, 04:30:32 PM »
Matthew's research reveals John Forster, Dickens biographer,  to be the man we see here.  Ella - Dickens was very clear in his will about how he wanted to be remembered, wasn't he?  Earlier he said he wanted to be buried in the little churchyard in Rochester - where his Mystery of Edwin Drood was set.
But  he's been buried in Poets' Corner in Westminster...with a huge monument towering over othe poets - including Thackeray's! They say this was Forster's doing.   My first thought was -  why didn't Aunt Georgy have anything to say about this?  But wait, she wasn't his wife.  I guess she doesn't have any say.  Didn't you think it was sad the way she had to confide in James Osgood her concerns about the disposal of Dickens' personal belongings.  What was Forster planning to do with the pen Dickens used to write his Drood mystery?  Would he sell it?

This pen was said to be a gift from Ellen Ternan.  It was one of Dickens'  belongings I saw in the London Dickens'  museum.  Just a quill pen - doesn't look like anything very special, does it? This was the pen he used to write Mystery of Edwin Drood but why  would James Forster want it?

It was in Matthew's book that we learn that "Charles liked to use a single pen for a single book - there was a purity about it that way.  He did not want to the pen's spirit mixed up in trifling bills...?"
Andy, is seems that Dickens is very aware of spirits from another world...even the world he has created in his books!

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #211 on: October 13, 2009, 04:48:35 PM »
Thanks for Herman's dialog, PatH - how could I have forgotten?
Maybe someone here has an answer to this question - those of you who have been hypnotized - or those who have smoked OPIUM. ;)  Do you speak when hypnotized?  Do you say things, reveal secrets? I remember Sally speaking to Jasper John while administering the opium pipe to him...asking questions - getting answers she was looking for.  
Do you think these states are similar - opium dreams and hypnotism?

 Is it possible that the mesmerism patient, the hops farmer - is hypnotized to think that he is Datchery?  If you've read MED, you know that Datchery knows Sally, Princess Puffer, the OPIUM dealer.  As Datchery, he'd know where her establishment is located.  It was Datchery who gave her the information that led her to Jasper John in the cathedral in the last scene that Dickens wrote.

Now he thinks that Osgood is "ready"  - for what?  He leads Osgood to Sally's place.  And then what?    Did "Herman" kill Osgood and kidnap Datchery, knowing he is the one who has the answers that Osgood had been looking for?  

serenesheila

  • Posts: 494
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #212 on: October 14, 2009, 03:00:13 AM »
I thnk that Forster wanted the quill pen, for bragging rights.  That would fit his described personality.  I can just see him, working the pen into his conversations with people.  He certainly had a lot of hubris, to change CD"s wishes about his burial.

I have been hypnotyzed twice.  The first time was to help me diet.  I felt that I was aware of everything going on around me.  My primary focus was on the person who hypnotiyzed me.  I, too was asked to slowly raise one arm.  The person working with me, then talked to me about food.  The suggestion was made to me that salads were the food which I most loved.  That in a buffet, salad would be my primary choice.  I do not think that I was "under", but from that day onward, I prefer a salad, to all other food.

The second time, I was in therapy.  A family member verbally and emotionally abused me.  I was uncomfortable being around this man.  The suggestion was made to me, that he had died, and it was suggested that I bury that person.  I was led through the funeral, and burial.  After awakening, I was quite aware that this person was still alive.  So, I do not know if I was "under", or not.


Sheila

serenesheila

  • Posts: 494
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #213 on: October 14, 2009, 03:11:24 AM »
I have just finished reading the latest installment.  It was nice to return to India, and pick up that story.  I had forgotten that CD's son, Frank, was a police inspector in that country.  Now, I am wondering what the thief has refused to confess.

I am appalled about the sewer hunter!  How could any human being work in the sewers?  I am glad to know that he was able to afford to buy tall boots for himself.  How did Osgood end up in the sewer?  What has happened to Datchury?  Why did he take JO to the opium house?  Lots of questions in my mind.

Today, I plan to begin reading installment four.  We had a huge storm, Tuesday.  More rain is expected today.  I am so glad for the rain.  We have been in drought for the past few years.  So, we need the rain.  The local news said this is the most rain we in the Sacramento area have ever had in October.

Sheila

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #214 on: October 14, 2009, 11:52:35 AM »
Quite interesting, Sheila~  To think that you are still under the hypnotic spell and prefer salad to other foods~ I could use that myself.

  Here's how I see Datchery - he is a poor ragged farmer hanging around Dickens garden near the Swiss Chalet where Dickens is working with his Drood plot.  He is inspired perhaps to write the Datchery character, while describing the man with his long white hair.  At the same time, he takes on this man as his "patient"  and tried to heal his physical ailments through mesmerism.  Somehow, he has hypnotized the man to think that he is Dick Datchery of Dickens' novel.  Does he reveal his plot to this character?  Perhaps.  If you read Dickens' novel you know that Dick Datchery knows where the opium den is located.  Why does he take  James Osgood there?  Opium Sal must hold the key to information that will reveal more about what Dickens intended to reveal in the second half.

 What do you think of this?  I have no idea - not even a guess about why this evil man who calls himself "Herman"  is on Osgood's trail.  Perhaps he thinks Osgood is his best bet to learn how Dickens was planning to end the plot.  OR, he is connected to the OPIUM trade...Maybe EVERYTHING is connected to the OPIUM trade.

At any rate, we know that Osgood recognized his assailant before he was attacked and left for dead. (Maybe the boots are part of Steve the Sewer Worker's uniform.  Seriously, Matthew must have needed a way for someone to find Osgood before it was too late - maybe there was no such thing as a sewer hunter. )
The assailant  must have been Herman.  But where is Dick Datchery?  Do you suspect that Herman has kidnapped him?




JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #215 on: October 14, 2009, 12:02:13 PM »
The plaster figure of the Chinese opium smoker from Dickens'  estate - perhaps it was  a gift from his son, Frank?  I'm glad you mentioned Frank before we move on to the next installment, Sheila.  He is quite conscientious in his job - more so than Mason and Turner, who failed to locate the thief.  Frank goes all the way to Narain's village - talks to his wife - buys up all his books she sold for food.  I wonder why? I'm not sure what his books will reveal.

Did you notice how frightened Turner is?  Maybe it's just because he and Mason failed to catch the thief and he's afraid  for his job.  Don't you get the feeling that the thief AND Turner were hiding something else besides opium.  I can't tell if Mason is involved.  I hope not.

We'll have to wait - we're heading back to the American tour a few years earlier in the FOURTH INSTALLMENT.  There has got to be a reason we keep returning to this tour - something must have happened that has an effect on Dickens' last years back in England...

I'm wondering why he went  to America - did he really need the money?  Did he fully realize the danger?  Do you know the state of his health BEFORE he left home?

Ella Gibbons

  • Posts: 2904
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #216 on: October 15, 2009, 11:07:46 AM »
"What if in the process of mesmerism, Dickens transfered, by some profound exposure, the skills of investigation displayed by the fictional character of Datchery onto this man.

If Dickens, intentionally or accidentally, exposed this man to more information about the novel, even if he doesn't consciously know it, this may be our chance-the best chance to quit England with more knowledge than when we entered it."


The twists and turns of the novel.  Very interesting, indeed.  And, so, Matthew leaves us hanging on this thread, this possible clue to the mystery, to return to India.

As Dickens must have left his readers in the serials in the magazine.  As the movie industry left the enthralled audience with episodes at the end of each serial movie and likewise the radio.  Today, I suppose, you could say that the TV soap operas do the same.

  

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10954
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #217 on: October 15, 2009, 11:48:06 AM »
Wow, Matthew sure knows how to leave you in suspense.  Osgood decides to go off on his dangerous expedition with Datchery, and we switch back to India, where it looks like the young Dickens is just about to get somewhere uncovering the more serious mystery underlying the opium theft, then it's back to London, where Osgood's expedition turns out badly.  We then leave him half-drowned in a sewer and backtrack to Dickens' tour again.  It's as bad as waiting for the boat to find out if Little Nell died.

pedln

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 6694
  • SE Missouri
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #218 on: October 15, 2009, 11:52:14 AM »
Oh good, am finally in the Red Room, after having trouble for two days.  Maybe there were just so many people going for it all at once.  In answer to your last question there – I think we should let unfinished books stand on their own, although I have read a few  where someone else has finished the book.  Many of us would have been disappointed had not Annie Barrows stepped in for her aunt Mary Ann Shaffer to complete The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society, but they did have the advantage of time to plan in advance.

I love you comments about folks gathering around and discussing the latest installments and what would happen next.  In trying to think of recent books that have generated lots of discussion, the only one I can think of is DaVinci Code, and am not sure if that’s a plus or a minus.

The Christmas Game – what fun.  It reminded me so much of the now unavailable game of Authors that we loved as children and even the simple “Go Fish,” played with regular cards.  Can’t you just hear some Tiny Tims saying, “Give Me All Your Tale of Two Cities,” or “Do you have any Little Dorrits?”  Someone should bring that back to life and then we could say, “Give me all your Dante Clubs.”

As usual, I'm a little behind in my reading, so hope all of this hasn't been too out-dated.

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10954
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #219 on: October 15, 2009, 12:06:14 PM »
Did you notice the British farming policy in Bengal?  The villagers are ordered to grow the profitable opium, and it's illegal to grow food crops like rice.  You get in trouble if you're caught doing so.  If there's a famine, the British make some effort to bring in food, but it isn't always successful, and people die.  As Turner says, they're "..here to turn out a better civilization...."

I can't imagine what it is that Dickens is trying to track down, but it seems obvious that Turner is involved in it, and that Mason doesn't have any idea what is going on around him.

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10954
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #220 on: October 15, 2009, 12:10:14 PM »
Pedln, I remember when I first read "Little Women", I was very amused that the characters played "Authors", because by the time I read the book Alcott was one of the Authors and "Little Women" was one of the books.

marcie

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 7802
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #221 on: October 15, 2009, 12:11:02 PM »
Yes, I did notice that farming policy, Pat. I don't understand why the British couldn't have allocated some of the land for food.

I agree with you that Turner seems to be involved in something related to the opium thief.

JoanR

  • Posts: 1093
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #222 on: October 15, 2009, 01:52:14 PM »
I've caught up with my reading now.  Everyone's posts have been so helpful and informative that you have left me speechless!!  One thing that has interested me most, I think, is seeing what the colonial policies and commercial interests did to India and other places as well.  Poor tragic India!   Man's greed causes no end of trouble - just look at what has happened to us now because of the actions of some unscrupulous bankers.

Well, enough economics!   Back to our hero and heroine - I do like her so much!!

ALF43

  • Posts: 1360
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #223 on: October 15, 2009, 02:48:53 PM »
oK, I give up.  Why was Dickens so interested in the murder of a money lender?  Did he know Parkman?
 This is quite a story. Check this out @ Wikipedia and read about their confrontation that Matthew describes the story of Parkman and Webster
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

ALF43

  • Posts: 1360
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #224 on: October 15, 2009, 02:59:44 PM »
oops, sorry.
Dicken's Staplehurst experience left him with such a sense of dread, I feel sorry for him.  Fear is a terrible emotion but he was the type of person that couldn't stand to see anyone suffer, including the livestock that was left to drown.  His compassion and the "cries and moans from inside that sounded like human misery" directed him to rescue those animals.  
His health was fragile and he did not like to admit to poor health.  I don't blame him one bit for keeping the flask ever-ready.  He was ill and home sick, no wonder he would talk with anyone who happened to be nearby.


Isn't it amazing that a man of Dickens worth was the same as the rest of us?  He wanted to site see and visit with people he knew.  He located Poe's mother in law, who was destitute.

Matthew, was that true of Dickens that he did not read his own reviews?  I couldn't do that, curiosity ....  
Why was it that Longfellow and friends such as Emerson were not interested in Dickens?  He was a fellow write.
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

JoanR

  • Posts: 1093
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #225 on: October 15, 2009, 03:40:24 PM »
I suppose, Alf, that it was because Longfellow was a poet and translator (Dante's Inferno) and Emerson was an essayist.  They probably had little interest in what was popular fiction at that time - at least outwardly.  Who knows what their recreational reading was when no one was looking!!!

ALF43

  • Posts: 1360
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #226 on: October 15, 2009, 04:24:49 PM »
Joan-  

Quote
Who knows what their recreational reading was when no one was looking!!!

who knows what evil lurks in the heart of fellow writers? ::)

but still------  Wouldn't one that composes and works with the "written word" have a cetain degree of kinship towards another?  Even if admiration was not involved, what about  some degree of regard or approbation for poor old Charlie?

 
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

ALF43

  • Posts: 1360
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #227 on: October 15, 2009, 04:29:12 PM »
Joan ask us- 
Quote
#3. What did Louisa Parr Barton want from Dickens?  Do you think there really was such a person and was she as dangerous as Tom Branagan suspected?

Personally, I still think the woman is totally whacked and can not for the life of me figure out her place in this story.  Is she over zealous because she's in love with Dickens?  Is she a failed actress and thus disenchanted?  Beats me.  Anyone else have a handle on her? 
I tend to agree with Mr. Branagan about her sanity and sense that he is correct in worrying about her intent.
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

Ella Gibbons

  • Posts: 2904
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #228 on: October 15, 2009, 06:03:43 PM »
Well, gosh, all your comments are very interesting, but it's all very confusing!  

I read the India chapter and was I surprised to read all about WATERBOARDING!  Talk about mixing the past and the present, or fact and fiction.  Isn't this what all the complaints of torture in Guantanamo is about:  "He slowly poured water onto the upper lip of his subject.  The water ran down the small cracks of his lips and collected in pools around his nostrils sending the man into spasms of drowning."(pg.192)

JOAN AND MARCIE mentioned in their posts the plight of the poor peasant farmers attempting to grow rice to feed their hungry families.  

And why was Frank Dickens so interested in finding books on Hindoo mythology and rellgion?  You see, I am suspicious of everything in this book, EVERYTHING, as one little thing may lead to the unraveling of a puzzle.

The trip Osgood took with Datchery is unbelievably horrible! The squalor of it all and those people who reek of opium and are practically dead to the world.

And we meet an opium manager by the name of Sally.

And AHA!  I thought so from the very beginning, Osgood, at a point in this awful situation he walked into, a point he felt he might not recover from, admits to himself that he loves Rebecca and has loved her from the first time he saw her.





JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #229 on: October 15, 2009, 06:28:18 PM »
There's got to be a connection with the opium trade in India and Dickens - or this opium den in London, don't you think?   Or we wouldn't keep returning. Is Frank Dickens the link?  What strikes me is that opium usage is not illegal at this time...though there is quite a market for it in England - and China.   Marcie, for the life of me, I can't figure out why all the land had to go to growing the opium poppies - nothing allocated for food. This doesn't sound very - English.   JoanR,  do you really think this is an example of how greedy the English were - or  maybe just here in this remote area where Narain lived?  Young Dickens seems highly disturbed at this situation - exhibiting his father's concern for the poor and oppressed.  Maybe Turner is fearful because he knows that Frank Dickens is coming closer to learning about the situation in which he is involved...I love Turner's tongue in cheek remarks, Pat H.  And Mason, his straight man, not understanding his meaning.

Ella, I've forgotten - was it Frank Dickens who has ordered the waterboarding?

Matthew and Dickens have something in common, the way they keep us in suspense, don't they?  Remember those Saturday matinee serials.  You had to wait a week to find out if the hero survived - you HAD to find that quarter and come back the next Saturday!

 From London to Boston to India THEN,  just when we are about to learn what happens in the  opium den where Osgood has done with Datchery, we are left with his  body in a London sewer ...  Thank heavens for Steve the Sewer Hunter - or our hero would have been a goner! Ella - you're right to suspect EVERYTHING!  And just when you think you're on to something, it turns out to be wrong! By the way, in Dickens'  Edwin Drood story - Princess Puffer the opium queen fits the description of her counterpart in Matthew's story - TO A TEE.

Osgood and Rebecca aren't the most romantic hero and heroines.  To realize that you are in love with someone while in an opium den about to be tossed into a sewer - is not really impressive.  What made him think of her then? Maybe he'll get cleaned up before he expresses his true feelings to her.
By the way - what is wrong with Osgood - is it simply the fumes of smoked opium that have made him so whoozy?  Didn't you think that was odd?

Pedln, I am so glad to hear you were able to read Matthew's Red Room blog - he revealed some interesting information - such as what he has concluded Dickens' plan was for the Drood ending after all his research for this book!


JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #230 on: October 15, 2009, 07:14:01 PM »
It's hard to keep this big mouth shut about saying anything more about Louisa Parr Barton, while you are still reading the 4th Installment.  But Andy's right, she is whacko and - and dangerous!  Can't wait to hear from you when you read what happens.  It is all so unbelievable - her character cannot possibly be based on a living person.  Or can she?

Ella, watch out for the conversation between Tom Branagan and Dickens regarding fiction (which Tom doesn't read) - I'd like to know what you think of Dickens'  answer...

This installment is wild!  Can't wait til you all catch up!

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10954
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #231 on: October 15, 2009, 07:56:00 PM »
Fellow readers, you sure know how to make someone shoot an evening.  First I had to follow Alf's link to the Parkman-Webster murder case.  It's lengthy, but interesting for anyone who has a taste for such things.  There are nifty forensic and legal points, and also an interesting reminder of the quality of the Boston Brahmin society--people unwilling to believe Webster's guilt as "one of us".

Then I got caught up in a real wild goose chase (almost literally).  I was looking at the picture of the pen used to write "Edwin Drood" (thank you, JoanP) and the tip looked funny to me.  So I came up with this how-to site on making quill pens.

http://www.flick.com/~liralen/quills/quills.html

You would only want to read much of this if you have a taste (as I do) for reading descriptions of a careful craft that you are never going to try.  But I did come out of it with the feeling that you couldn't possibly make one pen last for a whole book.

And, of course, a reminder that there was a reason for the name penknife.

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10954
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #232 on: October 15, 2009, 08:14:57 PM »
Yes, Joan, I'm up to date with the reading and champing at the bit for the next installment, but hesitating to say too much too soon.

I have questions for Matthew, though.  Am I right in presuming that the incident of rescuing the animals on the train actually happened?  And what about Mrs. Barton? I presume she was a real person, but how much of what she does here really happened?  Boy, truth really is stranger than fiction, and you're milking it for all it's worth.

marcie

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 7802
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #233 on: October 15, 2009, 09:10:16 PM »
Spoiler alert.

Another exciting installment! Lots of action in this installment, as well as insight into Dickens, the writer. 

Andy you are right about Mrs. Barton. And Tom was so right to be concerned about Mrs. B... but no one else thought his judgement was correct. I thought that Osgood was pretty harsh with Tom at the beginning of Chapter 23. "Your thoughtless actions have risked tainting the entire reading tour to the public eye, Mr. Branagan," Osgood said. "The future reputation of our publishing house is at stake." It's clear that it's not in the best interests of Dickens and the publishing firm for "waves" to be created by Tom's confrontation with Mrs. Barton, but Tom had Dickens' best interests in mind. They won't even listen to him.

Ella, the waterboarding incident caught my eye too.

PatH, I too read the long article that Andy linked to about the Parkman-Webster murder case. It is very interesting. I don't know if Dr. Webster would have been convicted in a trial today.

JoanP, I also noted the description of novels that Dickens gives Tom. Matthew, can you let us know if those are your words or if Dickens actually said, or wrote, that description (in Chapter 25 "Novels are filled with lies, but squeezed in between is even more that is true--without what you may call the lies, the pages would be too light for the truth, you see?")

JoanK

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 8685
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #234 on: October 15, 2009, 09:36:49 PM »
Wow!! What a dramatic trip Dickens had. Not specific so not to be a spoiler, but I'm sure all of us want to know how much of the incident with Clara and how much of the later incident are true?

I feel sad for Dickens' health -- like his friends I can't help wondering if he would have lived longer had he not gone.

matthewpearl

  • Posts: 54
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #235 on: October 16, 2009, 08:35:28 AM »
Hi everyone!

Sorry if I have fallen behind. I've been in Texas (still am) for the last few days speaking about my second novel, The Poe Shadow, at a college that chose it as their Book in Common.

So to try to catch up more quickly here are Joan's questions she collected...

"1.Matthew, did the contents of Dickens' estate actually go to Christie's after his death? Is there an actual catalog, an inventory of the items included in the auction? Was the yellow plaster figure on that list?"

Yep, yep, yep. Not only was I able to find the catalog with every item described, but also I found the prices most of them ended up selling for in the newspapers. I also found several detailed accounts of the auction. I knew I needed that scene! Remember Hitchcock's North by Northwest, when Cary Grant is hiding in the auction room from his pursuers? I always loved that.

"2. Was Dickens in good health before coming to America on his last tour?"

Dickens's health was already shaky when he left for America, but it got worse while he was there. Some obituaries, as well as John Forster, more or less pointed the finger at the American trip as leading to Dickens's death. I've been saving the link to this article I wrote, Dickens v. America, until you were a bit farther along in the novel, but I think now anyone who'd like to read it might enjoy it. I hope such links don't bombard anyone--obviously they're optional!

"3. Matthew, was that true of Dickens that he did not read his own reviews? "

Yes, it's true, and I think it would make any writer feel better that even Charles Dickens could be sensitive about such things.

"4. Why was it that Longfellow and friends such as Emerson were not interested in Dickens? He was a fellow writer."

Longfellow was actually welcoming to Dickens, but it's true Emerson was not very interested. Emerson was generally suspect of fellow writers. That's actually not uncommon among writers, especially ones who take themselves very seriously. Also, it would have been hard not to be envious of Dickens's incredible celebrity if you were a writer back then.

"5. Matthew, can you let us know if those are your words or if Dickens actually said, or wrote, that description (in Chapter 25 "Novels are filled with lies, but squeezed in between is even more that is true--without what you may call the lies, the pages would be too light for the truth, you see?") "

I can't tell you how much I hear those lines quoted back to me! What a surprise to me. It's funny, sometimes after writing one of my novels I forget which words are my own, which are historical, and which are a mixture. These are mine--but I'd like to think Dickens might have said something like it if Tom Branagan, or someone like him, had asked the question.

ANNIE

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 2977
  • Downtown Gahanna
    • SeniorLearn
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #236 on: October 16, 2009, 11:25:44 AM »
Just into #24 and so curious about Louisa Parr Barton!  Having much family doings this weekend so may be behind all of you.
I want to go back to the church in Brooklyn where Dickens gave his presentation in NYC.  I left a link to it but no one commented on it so I will!  hahaha!

"The church in Brooklyn was served by Ward Beecher who I think is Harriet Beecher Stowe's father.  So my question to Matthew is: Is he her father???"


Aha, I looked it up and they are brother and sister!  And their father was Lyman Beecher.   Who would have thought???  Here's another link for those who might be curious.
http://www.npg.si.edu/exh/brady/gallery/05gal.html

"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

marcie

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 7802
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #237 on: October 16, 2009, 11:32:49 AM »
You are so generous with your time, Matthew. Thank you for the responses to our questions.  No wonder that the words in question #5 are quoted back to you. That's such an interesting take on novels. It must be fun, and challenging, to write about very different authors and find, as well as put, something of yourself in each of them.

marcie

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 7802
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #238 on: October 16, 2009, 11:48:31 AM »
I just finished the article at http://www.moreintelligentlife.com/story/dickens-vs-america. It provides an interesting and helpful perspective on Dickens trips to America.

ANNIE

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 2977
  • Downtown Gahanna
    • SeniorLearn
Re: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Cub Online
« Reply #239 on: October 16, 2009, 12:21:40 PM »
Marcie,
What an incredible article.  How do you find these links???  I wonder if Matthew uses this type information??I can't even having the energy to write and to do all the detective work it must have taken to make much of our book true.  Amazing!
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey