The Library

[BarbStAubrey]

Super Frybabe - we can read about Slope's come up-pence - the poor man, he just did not realize he had a side of himself that could be swayed by a pretty face with her status like the cherry on top. 

[bellamarie]

I have one book, with both books and all chapters in it. The Warden begins the first pages of my book, and then Barchester Towers follows in the middle of the book. 

Barb, I am so glad you clarified this, because I would have been taking my book back to the library.  I checked the table of contents after reading your post and freaked seeing The Warden, but then turned the page and lo and behold, there was Barchester Towers!  So I am good to go.  Thanks also for the heads up on beginning the pre discussion Oct 4th on Monday. 

Jonathan,  I am glad to hear you can take a tease, and be bewildered.  To answer your question, yes, indeed the two are sisters and guess what.... there is a third sister Jaclyn, who is also a writer.  Imagine that!

Liane, Jaclyn and Nicola Moriarty: When blood is as thick as ink.
http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/books/liane-jaclyn-and-nicola-moriarity-when-blood-is-as-thick-as-ink-20170315-guz08v.html

Jonathan, I can only imagine the joy you feel looking back at those precious pictures of your lovely wife cuddling your grandchild.  From your posts, you and she have given your grandchildren lasting memories, and you are still doing so.  Aint being a grandparent, GRAND!!

Callie,  I could not begin to imagine having an empty nest with all my grandkids at different ages.  By the time my youngest two Zak & Zoey (6 & 9)are teens, I will most likely have my oldest granddaughter Kenzie, having babies.  Kenzie graduates from college this Spring, and wants to marry, and begin a family once her boyfriend graduates pharmacy school, which will be in about four years.  Glad to hear the book The Summer Before the War is not a typical war story. 

I must get off of here and get my lesson planning done for tonight..... you all have a great day!

[BarbStAubrey]

Good Bellamarie - looks like it is falling into place - my book does not differentiate between the story-line - evidently Pat is aware of the difference -

Not sure how the books that only give the story-line of Rev. Harding work when so much later after these other happenings with Slope and the Bishop's wife take place which helps to set up the impact of Harding going to London to plead his case - as long as we all have the 53 chapter version we are in good shape for a good read and conversation about matters that took place over 160 years ago. It will be fun to see the changes and to see what thinking still affects us today. 

[Jonathan]

'Is this version of the full story going to cause a problem? Talk about mix up.'

Not at all, Barb. I'm very pleased about the mix up. It just has to stimulate a lot of discussion. I can already see why Trollope was so popular. He was always talked about. His characters and plots made great conversation at dinner parties and other social occasions or across the hedge, with the neighbor.

The Trollopes had ink in their veins, like the Moriartys. Anthony, our author, was the best of them, even made a story of his own life...a Cinderella version.

Hope you're feeling better.

I've started on Barchester Towers. What a dramatic opening scene. And we get to know Mrs Proudie!

[CallieOK]

Hooray!   I can borrow "Barchester Towers" as an e-book from my library.  It's from the Gutenberg Press and has all 53 chapters.
Doesn't look as if there's much demand for it so I should be able to recheck as needed in two-week intervals.

[Frybabe]

Oops! I got mixed up. It is Wakefield that I have in an old hardback. But never fear, I knew I had Barchester somewhere, and sure enough, it is on my Paperwhite courtesy of Gutenberg.

[BarbStAubrey]

Tra La - I am so glad Frybabe - I have seen the movie and if the read is anything like the 1982 movie we are in for a wonderful time - Jonathan you also have the full 53 chapters as now Callie is saying she has access to the full story - I am delighted - now I am really excited - Ok need to get the heading finished and we start on Monday which is October 2, as we share all this background that some will be just added information but some will be a must in order to have any chance of understanding what is going on...

Pat has a great deal of background to share about the Victorian Anglican Church - we will need to know about a 'Living' and the various titles of the clergy and the order of importance for each title. We will also need to know the various laws enacted that affect religion during the nineteenth century... on and on - We will be putting on more than our Victorian hat, bonnets for the ladies and top hats for the gents - We will feel as if we could chat with a neighbor who visits using their time machine.

Pat I wonder, do you think Joan would pop in - she too has so much knowledge about the Anglican Church in Britain. Maybe one post during our first week - what a coup for all of us if she would share some of her knowledge with us.

OK tons to do and the day is flying by...

[ANNIE]

Well, I have ordered The Warden from Amazon's New & Used section and while I await delivery I have, compliments of Amazon, the first 2 chapters online! Annnnnnd now I find that the online doesn't start in the right place!  So I can't comment until my book arrives. I will hope it is here by 0ct 3rd.  I did receive a "has shipped email" about 2 days ago.  Now another notice has arrived from my library 📚 and I now have the book awaiting my pickup.  My first phone call tomorrow will be to the library to find out if their book is an Oxford Classic copy.  My life is just becoming too confusing! Too much going on right beside the pre-discussion. I might not be in the pre-discussion until October 5th!  Sorry about that!🤓❤️❤️❤️

[BarbStAubrey]

Annie - V for Valiant Effort - as to what you will read - who knows - Pat and I just had a passed each other trying to nail this book - there may be 2 or more versions and who knows what version we are reading in today's publications -

One thing we know that The Warden is part of the Barchester Tower - now if it is as originally written we do not know since the Warden was published alone and then later revised and republished by another publisher - in the meantime still another Publisher put it in with the Barchester Tower that Trollop says is how he envisioned it in the first place - Here I thought it was me who developed this mess and it appears the publishing of this book is as mixed up as I thought I was...

Since the Oxford World Classic has annotations that are prolific I'm thinking we are going to be best served by using it as our North Star that will guide our reading - between all the free copies of this story available we will piece it together - now we know to consider anything called either The Warden or Barchester Towers as having the 53 chapter story.

Annie we will be looking into resources to get us into the frame of mind and fill us in on traditions and protocol that will have us walking the streets, paths, trails, church aisles and floors of mid-nineteenth century Victorian Britain.   

[ANNIE]

I will try to keep up! 🤓🙏❤️

[BarbStAubrey]

Catch this the Growing Bolder Insider is looking for nominees for these awards -

    The Power of Positivity Award
    The Disrupting Aging Award
    The Lifelong Learning Award
    The Social Butterfly Award
    The Compassionate Caregiving Award
    The Inspired Lifestyle Award
    The Move Forward. Give Back®. Award
    The Rock Stars of Aging® Award
    The Never Stop Doing What You Love Award
    The Changemaker Award

[BarbStAubrey]

Karen at this point I do not know what we are actually reading - I ordered from Amazon and received a copy of The Warden that has 53 chapters and pretty much follows the story line that was the 1982 special on PBS which they called Barchester Chronicles - no book by Trollop shares that title - PBS made it up - However, my book is an Oxford Classic something - not a publication made expressly for the TV special.

When I looked online the second chapter of the copy I have is the same as the first chapter of the online version of The Warden - having read about the various publications I can only imagine possibly today there is not just one publication because I hear Pat, who is always right on and I know she is tops in this field, saying The Warden precedes Barchester Towers but then the story in my copy seems to include the points that are included in The Warden ---

I should read both the online version of The Warden and compare it to my book that I received which has the 53 chapters - I will not have time to do that till the weekend -

As long as your copy as 53 chapters that starts with the first chapter entitled Who will be the new Bishop? that is the book we are reading. Those who expressed their interest in joining the discussion are all happy regardless what we call it. If I have messed up and this does not include the story of The Warden then let's face it - worse things have happened - as long as we have an interesting book that is by Trollop and includes the story line of The Warden and if others know more background they can inject that information making it a richer discussion.

As of now I am planning the heading to look like this... The Warden/Barchester Towers

[Jonathan]

Barb, this is going to be a wonderful discussion. Is the film you mentioned the BBC television serial made in the 1980's? Where could I get it?

The 'mess', as you call it, is more fun than funny. Let's see if we can find our way out of it. The Barchester Chronicles is a series of six novels, beginning with The Warden, published in 1855, followed by Barchester Towers, published in 1857. Am I right in thinking that we will be reading and discussing the second? It's the more interesting according to my information. The Warden is very good, but it's just prologue to all the rest Trollope had to tell abut his characters. The last in the series was published in 1867. His characters really came alive for him. Dickens' characters, he once said, were merely puppets.

[BarbStAubrey]

Jonathan I think we are discussing Barchester - something - I think Towers but at this point who knows - there are so many titles floating around - as long as we are all reading the book that starts with the chapter entitled Who will be the new Bishop? and the book contains 53 chapters we should be fine - and if we get into it and learn we are not sharing the same book we will figure it out - many of Trollop's books, including this series, are available to read online - most libraries have his books that are not as popular now as other authors therefore, if we need a quick run to the library it should be a successful run - to stir the pot a bit more it could be that the PBS film version has combined several of Trollop's books into the series -

Whatever - keeping up with the irony, quips and sarcastic nods to High versus Broad or rather Tradition versus Liberal in Victorian Britain should allow us to wallow in a different time when language was more precise and whole sentences were not reduced to a few letters that we are supposed to quickly read and understand these cryptic marks that eliminate all the beauty of words... grrrr... yes, I am anxious to be swept into a world where words and tone matter. 

The PBS Barchester Chronicles aired in 1982 and Youtube has the entire production in 7 separate videos - here is the first
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDawi-HzNF8 - but please let's discuss the story as read from the book rather than the story as it was adapted to film.

[Frybabe]

Found this interesting article on Unbound Worlds website. It has nothing to do with our upcoming book discussion but with Hawthorne Hill, the Hawthorne family and the books that were inspired them. http://www.unboundworlds.com/2017/09/hathorne-hills-legacy-witchcraft-madness-literary-genius/?cdi=13F0CB1F062E09D7E0534FD66B0A73BA&ref=PRH2028E2388CC9

[BarbStAubrey]

Good grief Frybabe - puts a chill on just reading about how we treated anyone who was different - interesting to note there is not a history of mental institutions or witches as a fearsome thing in the south - there is an old saying, in the south families proudly sat their mentally disturbed on the front porch and put a glass of spirits in their hands. While in New Orleans witches were the stuff of life. I think that was also true in Savannah

Here is Austin we have a couple of well known individuals who are celebrated much to the horror or disgrace of many a new comer to the city. We are over a week on the website NextDoor explaining Thong Man to a recent home owner from out of state who was taken back by the sight and thought her children would be scared for life.

[PatH]

I agree with Barb and Jonathan, we are discussing the second book, Barchester Towers.  There's something funny about Amazon's labeling; when you look for Barchester Towers, you get a picture of The Warden, along with comments that refer to Barchester Towers.

https://www.amazon.com/Barchester-Towers-Chronicles-Barsetshire-2014-10-09/dp/B017MYTJYO/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1506706832&sr=1-8&keywords=barchester+towers+oxford

[Dana]

Jonathan you can get The Barchester Chronicles on amazon,  dvd for $23,  or used for about $4 I think.  The series is totally marvellous.
 I love Trollope and have all his books (including the Palliser novels) which is quite a pile of books........

[BarbStAubrey]

Wow Dana - all of them - just wow...

[BarbStAubrey]

Our Fall read, Barchester Towers

Our Main Goal for Pre-discussion Week October 2 - October 8 In order to catch Trollop's irony and humor, helpful is a look into the Anglican Church of England, that pillar of Victorian society. Also, we are scoping out the history, traditions, social and legal changes affecting the behavior of individuals within the power structure of the High Church. To further appreciate Trollop's character's susceptibility to corruption, hypocrisy, and conservatism we will foray a look at mid-century Victorian society. We will make this a wonderful week of sharing, as if time travelers, Trollop's Britain.

[Jonathan]

What charming detail in the owl's little booknook. What is she reading? And not at all pleased about that visitor who is calling on her.

Thanks for the information on the ready availability of Barchester Towers on Youtube and DVD. But first we'll read the book.

I'm surprised in looking around at how many readers share your enthusiasm, Dana, regarding Trollope. I'm going back to that bookstore to get the rest of the shelf.

[bellamarie]

Jonathan, curiosity killed the cat, satisfaction brought it back.  The owl is writing in the book "Notes On Birds."  Did you notice he/she is looking out the window at the bird on the branch.  This little owl has such a great little nook inside his tree, I love the quill pen and all the things on his desk that gives me the impression he possibly star gazes, as well as bird watching.  Barb, has a knack for finding the perfect pictures.

I too am surprised at the enthusiasm in Trollope.  I'll read Barchester Towers first, then decide if I will give him a second glance.

[bellamarie]

Barb,  I'm afraid you have just about scared me off with that syllabus for our pre-discussion.  I may be a looker on, as you all tackle that.  I was hoping for a more relaxed read, with so much turmoil going on in my life.

[BarbStAubrey]

Oh you will enjoy it bellamarie - you are so good at finding and nailing information - there will be a few websites that we can peruse and before you know it, with all the books we have under our belts written during this time in British history, we will be floating along.

The humor is great in the story but only, if you know what was happening that affected the High Church. Plus, the characters who are part of the church each have a different status - I was not aware of these various levels of importance and authority. I'm not aware that any of us in this discussion are Anglican and so, to know that hierarchy allows us to understand the expected decorum and the sublet differences in how each of the clergy are addressed.

Being Catholic, Bellamarie this will be an eye-opener since Roman Catholic Church hierarchy is limited in comparison and frankly, we really know very little about the finances of the RC church other than Sunday collections. Where as, the sources of funds in the Anglican Church are varied, some of which is opened to public scrutiny in this story.

Just the idea of a King or Queen being the head of the church means the government and law control the church. Different... but then we can enjoy the ride since it has nothing to do with our personal religious devotion. Almost like looking at the government in another nation that is different but has no affect on our national government. Trollop sees the humor in the inconsistencies of the leaders in the Anglican Church which has no affect on our personal religious views or our own church affiliation.

Today, the churches in our western society are no longer the pillar of the society as in the nineteenth century - The closest thing we have today to religion being the pillar of a society is among Muslims in middle eastern nations and in Israel, Judaism. To tell this story today Trollop would have to go to a local traditional group, corner stone to the community, that would be ultimately part of a national system.

Hard to say what that group would be.  A collage or hospital are not controlled on a national level - maybe a political party or a section of the national government like, a group of chemists in the Food and Drug Administration or, a group of park rangers in the National Park Service. Yes, that would work - you can almost imagine a story about a group of park rangers, full of their own ego, caring more about their career than caring about the land and wildlife entrusted to their care.     

By the way what is your turmoil Bellamarie - I seemed to have missed your saying anything although, I noticed you were not as active in the Library the last few days - I hope whatever is the turmoil, your life works out well for you.

 

[Frybabe]

The bird the owl is looking at appears to be a meadowlark.

I don't know how in-depth I want to get with the Anglican Church. I am actually more interested in the Unitarian Church because I seem to have had a few Unitarian ministers in my ancestry. In fact, one of the two last people burned at the stake in England was one of my ancestors.

[Jonathan]

Just look at this. My weekend newspaper has a literary feature called The Book Report. A prominent author is asked a dozen questions of general interest. This week it's Jennifer Egan, winner of a Pulitzer Prize for A Visit From The Goon Squad. Here  is her answer to:

'Which book do you think is underappreciated?'

'I think Trollope is generally underappreciated, at least in America. I'm finally getting to his books now - the Barchester series - and I'm staggered by their relevance. I can't think of another writer so avowedly focused on power and money and how they shaped human relations. He's dynamite!' (Globe and Mail, Saturday, September 30)

No mention of theology. Well, it might be interesting to know how The Church goes about its business.

[ginny]

I can't speak to the Anglican Communion in the US but in the Episcopal Church the Warden is alive and well. I know because I was both Junior and Senior Warden back in the day,  no longer,  so it will be interesting to see what Trollope does with it, how it differs in that time,  and what it consists of.

I believe most denominations have like offices of administration,  too, they are just called different things.

[Dana]

well in Scotland way back when I lived there, the Episcopalians (known affectionately as "Piskies") WERE the Anglicans, so I have never been able to figure out the difference... My piano teacher recently told me that he is playing at a Lutheran ceremony and 3 sects of those are getting together to celebrate Martin Luther nailing his proclamation to the wall, BUT they cannot have communion together because they all believe different things....go figure.....(so they are going to have snacks instead!)

[BarbStAubrey]

I am laughing so hard - this is funny - here we are sharing the main point of the Fall Discussion in the Library! A riot... before the pre-discussion that will include this topic is even open - I love it - 

Ok preparing for the Trollop discussion we will learn some of the distinctions between religions - he uses the church as his platform for wit, dry humor, and at times out and out belly laughs. Certainly, he wrote his characters showing sarcasm and bombastic rhetoric.

A couple of things - Most of us understand differences in religion based on how the religions are practiced today --- what they are called today --- how they are organized today --- In order to enjoy the irony in Trollop's story we need to sort this out based on the characterization of religions as practiced in the mid nineteenth century in Britain.

Important - there are differences in what is Anglican in Britain during the mid nineteenth century and what is practiced in the States now and then -

Trollope is speaking about The Church of England which at the time was either the Anglican High Church or the Anglican Broad Church, the High Church being more conservative than the Broad Church.

This web sight shows the page of a book explaining the difference between the Church of England and the Church of Scotland - towards the bottom of the page - https://tinyurl.com/yamtg3bk

Here is the differences as explained by a Calvinist between a Presbyterian and an Anglican -
https://possil.wordpress.com/2011/05/31/presbyterian-anglican-there-are-differences/

However he speaks of Anglicans as a Broad Church Anglican which must be about today or there is a difference between The Church of England Anglican and the Anglican Church not practiced within Britain since this site below explains, "The Church of England is also the mother church of the international Anglican Communion." And in Trollop's novels part of the humor is the attitude of those in the conservative High Church towards those in the liberal Broad Church.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_England

And finally - have not located anything explaining the difference between Presbyterian and Episcopalian during mid-nineteenth century - my gut tells me the changes are in the labeling - the various practices and attitudes, conservative or liberal has changed how we label these various churches. This website explains differences today...
http://classroom.synonym.com/differences-between-presbyterians-episcopalians-12083202.html

Ha ha I learned all this just preparing the pre-discussion - can you imagine the minutia we will understand while smiling and laughing and at times, yes, being sad reading Trollop.

[Dana]

well the Scottish Presbyterians (who again divided themselves into at least 2 sects) were founded by  John Knox and did not have a church hierarchy believing that no man should come between a person and their god.  So they had elders, elected I think, out of the congregation.  Whereas the Episcopalians, who were the Scottish equivalent of Anglicans, had a hierarchy with bishops and all......

[BarbStAubrey]

  Dana I think we are going to need a chart to keep track of all this - an eye-opener for me - I've been so busy over the years tracking down the history of the Catholic church to sort out the various Protestant churches - I like the one site that explained the Catholic Church as a system based on the Nicene Creed adapted during the Nicaea Councils - that put into perceptive for me the Protestant church beliefs - many more similarities than I was taught as a child but then  I did attend parochial school

[bellamarie]

Jonathan, I would like a newspaper that has a section called The Book Report.  Alas!!  It must have bowled you over to read that response about Trollpe and his books by the Pulitzer Prize winner Jennifer Egan. 

My book The Warden, was sitting on the end table and my curious 9 yr. old grandson Zak picked it up and said,  "What is this book about?"  He is always asking about what I am reading with my online book club.  I told him I have just started reading the book, and not so sure if I really want to continue with it.  Now that it seems to have piqued his interest, I may rethink my hesitation.  I love being able to share parts of my books with him, and tell him what others think about them.  I just may be setting him up to want to be a part of a book club himself!  He and his sister Zoey spent the night, and we watched the movie, Diary of a Wimpy Kid: The Long Haul for the second time.  Zak told me he has read all the Diary of a Wimpy Kid books and could tell me parts the movie left out.  I love, he loves to read, at such a young age.

Barb, thank you for your kind words.  The most difficult times I find in life today, are the times your family is going through tough times, and all you can do is listen and pray for them.  I thought getting my kids through their teen years was difficult at times, I think with social media and cell phones parents have it far worse than anything I had to deal with.  This too shall pass....

[BarbStAubrey]

it is difficult to stand by and not roll of your sleeves and solve the problems - I guess they need their problems to grow and experience so they too will have some elder wisdom - tough watching though - takes another skill set on our part to come to terms with our loss of protecting our kids from life and at times from themselves.  that owl has a lot to teach us about how to handle ourselves as we observe the world around us including our children that are not unlike the early morning meadow lark to our owl wisdom.

[bellamarie]

Barb, Yep, I bet you did not expect so much of a response when you posted that owl pic. 

Today is another solemn day in the world....a shooter opened fire on fans at the Jason Aldeen concert last night in Las Vegas.  Fifty are dead and hundreds are wounded.  Evil plagues our world, while we feel so helpless.  Prayers for all the families of their lost loved ones and those injured.

[BarbStAubrey]

This is really nice isn't it...

[PatH]

This time the winner of the Nobel Prize in literature isn't someone nobody has heard of--it's Kazuo Ishiguro, author of Never Let Me Go, The Remains of the Day, and other good books.

[Frybabe]

My latest Project Gutenberg find is a three volume set of short stories, American and English, edited by William Patten, and French (translated into English), edited by Francis J. Reynolds et al.

American, Vol. 1 - http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/32845
English, Vol. 2 - http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/32846
French, Vol. 3 - http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/10577

[BarbStAubrey]

[BarbStAubrey]

https://www.facebook.com/greatbigstory/videos/1755432908092468/

A bit of wonderful London that adds to what life was like 200 years ago

[Frybabe]

Short story list for Halloween. https://americanliterature.com/halloween

And how about some music to read by: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uWizf76vko