Author Topic: The Library  (Read 2327105 times)

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9800 on: November 09, 2012, 12:08:31 PM »

The Library

Our library cafe is open 24/7, the welcome mat is always out.
Do come in from daily chores and spend some time with us.

We look forward to hearing from you, about you and the books you are enjoying (or not).


Let the book talk begin here!





It sure takes someone putting this in context to appreciate what most of us have not even realized - Obama won big - really big - here is the excerpt from The Nation.

Quote
Despite a brief delay by Republican challenger Mitt Romney, and the commentators on Fox News, Obama claimed his victory on election night not the next day, as Richard Nixon did in 1960, or even later, as George Bush in 2000.

And it was a real victory.

Obama did not have to deal with the challenge of an Electoral College win combined with a popular-vote loss—as even some of his most ardent supporters feared might be the case.

By the time Romney conceded at 1 am, Obama had a 250,000 popular-vote lead, and it grew to roughly 2 million by dawn.

He was on track to win a majority of states and more than 300 Electoral Votes—at least 303 and, with the right result in Florida, 332.

Obama’s win was bigger than John Kennedy’s in 1960 (303 electoral votes, popular vote margin of 112,827), bigger than Richard Nixon’s in 1968 (301 electoral votes, popular vote plurlaity of 512,000), bigger than Jimmy Carter’s in 1976 (297 electoral votes, popular vote margin of 1,683,247), bigger than George W. Bush’s in 2000 (271 electoral votes and a popular vote loss of 543,816).

Our friend Karl Rove attempted to suggest Tuesday night that Obama’s victory was diminished by the fact that the president did not improve on his 2008 numbers, and recalled that some presidents (Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton) have done so. But he failed to note how over the past century, many presidents have stumbled in their bids for second terms, including: George H.W. Bush (defeated in 1992), Jimmy Carter (defeated in 1976), Lyndon Johnson (decided not to seek re-election bid after 1968 primary setbacks), Harry Truman (decided not to seek re-election after 1952 primary setbacks), Herbert Hoover (defeated in 1932 re-election bid), Woodrow Wilson (won by narrower margin in 1916 than in 1912) and William Howard Taft (ran third in 1912 re-election bid).

Significantly, Rove’s man, George W. Bush won his 2004 re-election run with just 286 electoral votes, and faced serious challenges to the result in the state that put him across the 270 line: Ohio.

Never mind, Bush claimed a broad mandate.

“When you win, there is…a feeling that the people have spoken and embraced your point of view,”  Bush said.  “And that’s what I intend to tell Congress, that I made it clear what I intend to do as the president; now let’s work.”

Bush told reporters : “I earned capital in this campaign, political capital, and now I intend to spend it. It is my style.”

When Bush tried to spend his capital “reforming” Social Security , he failed. Obama would be wise to avoid making the same mistake.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Dana

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9801 on: November 09, 2012, 12:31:43 PM »
We happened to (briefly) switch over to Fox on election night, just to see how they were coping, and just in time to see  Karl Rove emote!!

 I love PBS for news, feel like all their news anchors and commentators are part of the family--Judy Woodrof, Gwen Ifel, Hari Srinavasan, Brooks and Sheilds etc.  I do like Rachel Maddow too, though.


This is so happy, someone sent it to me just now.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=dv_gOBi8Wpk&vq=large




mabel1015j

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9802 on: November 09, 2012, 01:05:09 PM »
In a follow-up -to-the-election survey yesterday, i was asked "do you believe the country is moving in the right direction?" i realized that after Tuesday's election, i had to say "yes". The defeat of the anti-women candidates, the election of many women in many offices - New Hampshire has women in all top offices - gov, senators, congressional delegates - the reelection of Obama, makes me optimistic for the first time in a long time.

On the other hand Boehner and Majority Leader Mitch Mcconnell, refusing to take Pres Obama's phone call on Tues night, was just disrespectful of the office, i dont care if it is a Dem or Rep president. I think that behavior is unprecedented before this president. Boehner refused to call him back, earlier when we had the fiscal crises. How dare he?

marjifay

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9803 on: November 09, 2012, 01:13:03 PM »
I loved it, Dana!  That video was wonderful.

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

MaryPage

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9804 on: November 09, 2012, 03:05:20 PM »
Dana, that was WONDERFUL!  Thank you so much.

As for the Republican/President Obama divide:  our President has behaved like the gentleman he is, and is a perfect example of the way I was brought up.  On the other hand, some of these Republicans behave like the boorish cave men they obviously are.

Hey, you do the rude, crude and unrefined thing, and I will call it that NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE!  John McCain was ALWAYS a gentleman.  The GOP needs to go to Etiquette School.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9805 on: November 09, 2012, 03:23:09 PM »
Well it appears far more than an etiquette school is required - now Petraeus!!??!! Holy Hannah
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

MaryPage

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9806 on: November 09, 2012, 04:25:26 PM »
I did not know what you meant by Petraeus, so I looked it up.  Crimmy!  A good man has fallen.  So sad.

But he is of the men labeled gentleman, despite his disgrace.  I expect his retirement will be pretty cosy.

ginny

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9807 on: November 09, 2012, 06:41:56 PM »
Well, gosh. As much as I hate to strike a....different point of view,  and voice, I think we should realize that not everybody is over the moon about the re-election  of President Obama, not everybody was an Obama supporter,  and not everybody was happy to see the stock market fall 70 points today following his first  remarks.

He's the President now and as such he commands respect, but  it was close, certainly not a landslide, and I personally think what happened was,  as bad as things have been,  people voted to keep the known problems rather than to CHANGE which is a scary word to a lot of people.

Yes,  he seems like a nice man. So did the other candidate.  We don't  know these people,  at all, and we never will. We may think we do, but we don't.   What matters is what the government can get done. So far, it's not been impressive, to me. But  it's over, let's hope that somehow the country can roll on regardless. It always has.

At any rate, there are quite a few people who were not overjoyed as most of you seem here, to hear the news.  By a long shot. And not because of any of the reasons (!?!) given here.

  

CallieOK

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9808 on: November 09, 2012, 07:48:39 PM »
Thank you, Ginny.

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9809 on: November 09, 2012, 08:43:10 PM »
Ahhhh! A voice in the wilderness. A brave soul. My thanks too. I am afraid if I spoke up I wouldn't be so eloquent.

On the flip side, PA elected our first female Attorney General, Kathleen Kane (D). Someone has updated the Wiki page on her to include that fact. Please note that she concentrated on child and elder abuse cases. She is not happy about the very slow investigation by the current Governor when he was AG regarding the Sandusky case and has stated that she plans to investigate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Kane_%28politician%29

Now, I am all for getting back to books and such.

JoanP

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9810 on: November 09, 2012, 08:47:38 PM »
Just in from a week in FL.  Our plane was delayed last pm - we were supposed to be in DC at 11pm - because of a "dent" in the back door of the plane, we had to get off before take-off in NC while another plane was located, cleaned, fueled... Didn't get home until after 3am - try to hail a cab at that hour at dark airport.

Spent the day trying to catcH up - mail, marketing, laundry, and Seniorlearn.  After reading recent  posts here in the Library, I think I have to agree with Mary Page's comment to the effect that this is supposed to be  a place free from polarizing political comments ...a welcoming place for ALL of our readers - to talk books...although the conversation sometimes leads to interesting side discussions, I admit.
As Ginny points out, about half the electorate voted for the other candidate.  These numbers are probably reflected in our Seniorlearn members...who are no doubt as  committed to the values of their party.

Please let's remember the purpose of this Forum - BOOKS- and a friendly, comfortable environment for everybody.  If you feel the need for another discussion in which you feel free to discuss the books and articles  that reflect your own political views, we can talk about that.  But this really isn't the place for it.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9811 on: November 09, 2012, 09:20:52 PM »
Yes, I Understand and agree this about Books and yes, it must be painful for those who see the nation better helped by another - however, please do not mis-read - my opinions were about those who are acting ugly, spitting out rage NOT about just anyone who voted for and believes in another viewpoint and another man -

I do believe no one who posts here ever acts nor thinks with the kind of vitriolic hatred expressed by some folks mostly, because of the President's race and no one among us has family members who share and speak the unkind comments about women or immigrants we heard during this voting season.

This is disturbing enough that some of us were trying to find a rational. And yes, the election is over and there are many local and state elections that are probably closer to our hearts as to how the outcome affects our future.

Here in Austin we have a nearly complete Republican controlled government and so I can accept that all of us are affected by government leaders who have different viewpoints than our personal views. But please I was sharing data after the election showing all presidents since Wilson and in an earlier post trying to dissect why some folks are filled with hatred - not lumping everyone who votes Republican as attacking with this hatred.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

JoanP

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9812 on: November 09, 2012, 09:51:33 PM »
Barbara, are you saying that you see the need for a new discussion to continue along those lines?

Dana

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9813 on: November 09, 2012, 10:26:34 PM »
People should feel free to express their opinions.
However, since I moved to S. Carolina from NY State,  I tend not to, because here I am surrounded by people who seem to think I am a communist. (when I say anything political, which I have pretty much stopped doing).  Its amazing, the difference.
  Now, in Europe I am regarded as quite a middle of the road to right wingish type.  Go figure....!
I do think that  civilization depends on education, healthcare and infrastructure provided by means of taxation for all citizens.  "Taxes  are the price we pay for civilization."
Oliver Wendell Holmes.
You know what is said about dinner parties--don't talk about politics, sex or religion.  perhaps that applies here too.....

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9814 on: November 09, 2012, 10:42:06 PM »
Not really JoanP - no one wants to keep posting on a discussion about abhorrent behavior - but if anyone has a clue that can add to why we are seeing this behavior it would be great to hear from them - again, not now or earlier am I suggesting this is typical of all those who see a need for another man as president - only trying to learn why the hatred seems so severe -

To my way of thinking that would be nice to better understand - yes, it is my curiosity - not suggesting it for Senior Learn - however, if anyone has a view as to the hatred we see for this president it seems to be a short timely couple of posts topic that I thought the library could handle

I am coming from the schedule at our library.  The end of this month, is scheduled a dialog with a visiting Benedictine Nun, Joan Chitterster and a visiting Franciscan priest, Richard Rohr along with several from the Austin Episcopal Seminary, Betty Sue Flowers and Tom Spencer, the CEO of Interfaith Action of Central Texas focused on cultivates peace and respect through interfaith dialog, who will moderate in the Austin Public Library - and so to understand and respect other opinions I thought would be OK in our Library.

If you prefer the conversation be dropped that is fine - I just want to be sure folks realize I would not put down those who voted for another man and his viewpoint to run this nation. I do appreciate how It does feel overwhelming to be tied to any position and find others see it differently - I know I have been there many times...I am only concerned with understanding the hate that pops up in our face that we have not seen since the 60s.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

JoanP

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9815 on: November 09, 2012, 10:54:51 PM »
Quote
"If you prefer the conversation be dropped that is fine."

 I think it would be better to return to books and related topics,  Barb.  

Dana

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9816 on: November 09, 2012, 10:57:13 PM »
I do agree with you , Barbara.  The hatred expressed for Obama is shocking, frightening and supremely disgusting.

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9817 on: November 09, 2012, 11:27:35 PM »
I think a political/constitutional/economic book discussion group might work. There are plenty of books even without counting the political diatribes. I have in my library The Oxford Companion to the US Supreme Court (a bit too hefty for here, I think). Oxford World's Series has one on political speeches. Lots of political philosophy books throughout history. I expect there are books about the workings of three branches of government had how they are supposed to work - checks and balances. Then there are the political systems and politicians of other countries, not all of which are democracies.

Lots and lots of economic theory, applications and consequences. Milton Freedman's Capitalism and Freedom is now in its 40th edition. We could read a classic like Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations. Freakonomics: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything was interesting.

For those who want to keep a running commentary on the day to day events and such could join the political discussion group on SeniorsandFriends.org. That one is not book focused. Be warned, however, that some of the commentary is nasty on both sides of the isle.


kiwilady

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9818 on: November 09, 2012, 11:41:35 PM »
I would love to do a discussion on one of those books mentioned below. Yes I left Seniors and Friends because I was viciously personally attacked and stalked on that site by a Republican voter. She followed me into other discussions not just the Political ones. I love to talk Politics but never ever would I attack another poster on a personal level. Vigorously debate an issue - Yes.

Obama won our Mock Polls in Australasia by a Landslide. Same in other countries I believe. We trust Obama and everyone likes him. Bill Clinton is still loved here despite his indiscretions. One of my daughters friends has a cafe come hand made chocolates store. Bill and Chelsea went there on the trip he did here. She has a photo of herself with Bill and its still on the wall.

Carolyn

Steph

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9819 on: November 10, 2012, 05:55:44 AM »
 Iwont do political discussions since on the old senior net, I was attacked and called horrid names by the males who seemed to feel that theyhad the right to determine what to do with my body and not me..
I dont think we have been that political, but that is just me.. I feel that the office of President deserves a certain amount of respect. I also feel that the congress simply must start the art of compromise.. We simply cannot sit here  and listen to them infighting and all promising not to budge on positions and I am sorry, but the no new taxes thing is just flat out silly.. We need to curb our spending, but I am so very very tired of social security and medicare being attacked and defense being considered a sacred thing.. I dislike our interventions into other countries affairs, but I know others dont..They might look at the price of this..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

ANNIE

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9820 on: November 10, 2012, 06:23:06 AM »
Thank you, Ginny for reminding us that there are two sides(sometimes three or four--sans the Tea Party) in any debate.  But hatred does not flatter anyone nor does it accomplish anything.
   
Barb et al,, perhaps we should keep our (SL's) library about books and Chaucer and if we feel the need to discuss world politics, we should see where S&F's political discussion takes us.  From Carolyn's post, I'm not sure any of us want to go there either.  Hmmm, so we have another conundrum to deal with this week which is part of all our lives.

Frankly, after all the hulllabaloo for the last few years, I need a nap!
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9821 on: November 10, 2012, 08:10:34 AM »
The problem is can we all refrain from personal attacks, etc. and concentrate on learning about political processes, philosophies, and histories? Economic theories and philosophies are just as diverse and hotly debated. They often go hand in hand with politics. They do involve "taking sides". Taking sides in a debate does not mean personal attacks and holier than thou attitudes. It means honest debate on the merits of a particular course of action. I wouldn't mind exploring these ideas, how they come about and why one system is ultimately chosen over another.

For example, our Federal government often uses taxes and credits ostensibly to help one group or another. Often they are used to change behavior. What are the economic consequences, intended and unintended, of such taxes and credits. Cigarettes are an example. One of the intended consequences was to, hopefully, force people into smoking less or stopping altogether for health reasons. Another intention was for states to use a share of the taxes to promote non smoking and address smoking related health issues. The unintended consequences include less people smoking so there is less money going into the pot, many states are not using the money for anti-smoking campaigns and health issues but for other things, and an increase in black market cigarettes (although the last was probably anticipated). Altria was a big supporter of Federal regulation on cigarette content. One of the consequences of this will be that, as long as their products meet Federal standards, they are more likely not to be sued and if sued less likely to lose.

When I took tax accounting class, I discovered that the rather chunky tax credit to help adoptive parents was set to expire either 2011 or 2012 (I forget which). Consequences? Some potential adoptive parents will not be able to afford adopting - the result, less babies adopted, and perhaps more baby kidnappings and black market babies. This may, over all, be a small issue in the scheme of things, but not for people who want to adopt and the babies not adopted.

We could try and if it turns into a sling fest, it can be discontinued.

MaryPage

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9822 on: November 10, 2012, 08:33:18 AM »
I don't believe it can be done.  Like Barbara, I was letting the edge off of my extreme astonishment and disbelief over the disrespect and hatred spewed (and still being spewed) toward our president.  I have total respect for other people's political reasons for their political votes;  I just don't know where the bile spews from and why.  WHY is something I just cannot grasp hold of.

But, like Carolyn and Steph and many others, I found long ago that the Senior Net political discussions were not about seeking answers or sharing information and opinions.  Not at all.  My different opinions brought me that same volcanic eruption of bad names, slurs regarding my character, and assertions my morals were going to slide me right to hell and my lack of patriotism should make me seek some other country to live in!

When you are 83, Southern born from First Families of Virginia and Massachusetts (Mayflower descended there) and can trace your family lines back to the 16th century and Founding Fathers, have been a good citizen all of your life, never been arrested for anything, ok, let off from a possible speeding ticket the day Mama died, and your daddy graduated West Point and later taught there for 4 years while you were growing up and soaking up all THAT Duty, Honor Country thing and then you marry a man who serves his government as pilot of 24 bombing missions over Japan and works for the NSA for 31 years, becoming its chief civilian director, well, your mouth kind of gapes open at being told you are a murderer and unwelcome in this, your country!  And you say to yourself with a sick sinking in your stomach:  when did it become THEIRS?  How and why?

jeriron

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9823 on: November 10, 2012, 09:24:39 AM »
Seniors and Friends is just as bad as Seniornet. I know Marypage has tried going on it and so have I and are treated just as badly as we were on Seniornet.  I don't post there anymore because it's too upsetting. One of this bookboards posters  tried to voice an opinion there  after the election  and was told not to politely if she didn't like it she can just leave after all this is America and people can say what they think no matter how nasty it is. Of course they don't believe they are being nasty or racist. No matter what they say they don't think they are racist.

Barbara I honestly was too dumbfounded to reply to your post to MaryPage about why some people feel as they do about Obama. I guess most of us in this country( at least I hope so) feel that all that hatred is over with but honestly it looks like it isn't. I've felt all along that it has always been about the color of Obama's skin.

Sorry to say all political boards turn nasty. I am of the opinion that if I wouldn't like these same people face to face  then way bother trying to discuss anything with them on a political board.

Tomereader1

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9824 on: November 10, 2012, 09:59:58 AM »
By all means, let's drop the Political Discussion here.  This is the LIBRARY, and I for one, would prefer that it remain that.  Discussion about books (preferably not political ones, IMHO).   We have four more years to store up our thoughts and feelings about candidates, also-rans and winners. 
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

MaryPage

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9825 on: November 10, 2012, 10:03:08 AM »
Back when I still lived in Virginia (I moved to Maryland to be near most of my children, and it has worked out very well), Joseph Harsh, then head of the History Department at George Mason University and now deceased, who has written and had published many books on the Civil War, decided to start a debating society.  I was fortunate to be included in the original invitations, and became a charter member of the Thumb & Finger Society.  Only human beings have an opposing thumb and finger, and scientists think we could never have evolved to where we are now without these.  I thought Joe picked a great name.

We used to meet in the party room of a Chinese restaurant on Wednesday nights.  We had dinner and a subject of the evening.  I remember I headed several discussions.  Joe would come up with a list of subjects about every 3 months, and we would each volunteer for one.  The leader would start off the debate and then wind it up.  We went around the table counter clockwise to hear each person's argument.

Civility reigned.  Some of the differences were ocean wide, but we were always polite and considerate.  And we learned a lot and made great friendships.

The local newspaper often wrote us up, and I was astonished the night I led the abortion debate to find a woman from a local church who was NOT one of us and totally uninvited all ready to take us on.  We politely made room for her, and someone even bought her dinner.  That was the one and only time someone was threatening, belligerent, and unkind.  Why has this become OK?  We were stunned.

Babi

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9826 on: November 10, 2012, 10:07:45 AM »
 Speaking for myself, I'm not at all interested in a discussion site for politics. The presidential
elections are so important that we do tend to get involved...but peaceably, at least here. I
agree with those that say politics, like religion, simply draws too emotional a reaction. I've
never tried to participate in one that did not degenerate into a heated squabble.
  The interest of the past few weeks has been understandable.  Now, why not simply close
the curtain on all of that and return to our usual business.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

Tomereader1

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9827 on: November 10, 2012, 10:37:30 AM »
Speaking for myself, I'm not at all interested in a discussion site for politics. The presidential
elections are so important that we do tend to get involved...but peaceably, at least here. I
agree with those that say politics, like religion, simply draws too emotional a reaction. I've
never tried to participate in one that did not degenerate into a heated squabble.
  The interest of the past few weeks has been understandable.  Now, why not simply close
the curtain on all of that and return to our usual business.
I second that motion!!
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

CubFan

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9828 on: November 10, 2012, 11:08:22 AM »
I think a good example of how bad things have gotten in our country is the fact that the city where I live has found it necessary to create a Civility Project to improve the way people treat each other. Locally I’ve seen the same types of behavior that are going on nationally where people cannot accept differences in opinion, customs, beliefs. I have a neighbor who cannot/will not accept our President and furthermore really believes any bilingual person must be illegal.
   
The following is taken from the Civility Project.
The Civility Project is an ad hoc community-based group.  We are advancing the cause of civility in order to enhance interpersonal effectiveness in order to build and strengthen the social fabric of our shared community.  We seek to help individuals and organizations explore and develop affirming approaches that enhance civility.

Mission
To promote the principles of civility in everyday life through education, imitation, and community engagement.
 
The Civility Pledge: 
We build a stronger and more diverse community by actively sharing our ideas and opinions with others in thoughtful and considerate ways.  By practicing this basic commitment  to civility, we  learn and grow from one another - even in disagreement.

Today and Every Day I Aspire to Practice the following Skills:
1. Pay Attention - Be Aware of Others & Sensitive to the Immediate Context of Actions
2. Listen Closely - Understand Other Points of View
3. Be Inclusive - Welcome All; Don't Exclude Anyone
4. Don't Gossip - Remind Others of the Importance of this Practice
5. Show Respect - Honor Others (Especially in Disagreement)
6. Be Agreeable - Find Opportunities to Agree
7. Apologize Sincerely - Repair Damaged Relationships
8. Give Constructive Comments, Suggestions & Feedback - No Personal Attacks (Focus on Issues)
9. Accept Responsibility - Don't Shift Blame; Share Disagreements Publicly

"It's not what you say.  It's how you say it."

Mary
"No two persons ever read the same book" Edmund Wilson

Frybabe

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9829 on: November 10, 2012, 11:26:58 AM »
You've already discussed several books that are political history in the non-fiction group. I believe that Berlin 1961, A Team of Rivals, and Destiny of the Republic can be included in that group. The Life of Frances Perkins could be included because she was in the middle of the political scene. I thought we did The Forgotten Man (economic history), but I don't see it in the archives.

Perhaps it is best to just leave these topics to the occasional book discussion offering such as the above where we are limited to a month to discuss a particular book. Ella and Harold always come up with good titles. There is also no reason why someone can't nominate a book for discussion either.

Cubfan, your list reminds me that just plain good manners which seems to have gone out the window long ago, too.


jeriron

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9830 on: November 10, 2012, 11:55:57 AM »
I don't think it's such a bad thing to discuss other things on this board besides books, after all there are 5+ other book boards on SeniorLearn.  Right now it's the election which won't continue for long I'm sure. We'll go back to books and then something will come up and we may discuss that for a day or two and then go back to books. I guess if some aren't interested in the subject being discussed they won't post that day, that's about all the change of pace really means.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9831 on: November 10, 2012, 12:57:14 PM »
I am not coming down on either side if we should or should not have a political discussion  - what I do see is that we are learners - SeniorLearn - and to learn about issues taken up by government can be political but then is it outright political or like as we discuss all books we bring to the discussion our viewpoint - are we simply spouting the viewpoint of a party or are we sharing our views that a party may better identify but we probably are not simply puppets for the party politics - I think the same thing goes for our religious views that frankly I see most if not all of us sharing our Spiritual views that may have been voiced to by the religion we choose to adopt.

I do think an upsetting discussion is part of what happens when anyone uses a group to bring their political agenda as opposed to joining a group that because of your political persuasion you will contribute from that viewpoint.

I know I have always wanted to read with a group the Constitution and learn the various views as to how aspects of the document are carried out and how they are often interpreted. The tax idea is one I had not even thought of - And yes, the choice of book can be like a stick of dynamite or it can be a tutorial that we bring our understanding and questions to the discussion.

We used to be comfortable with more than one book discussed a month - is that something we would want to tackle I wonder... because an easy solution could be to expand the non-fiction part of SeniorLearn so that every other month a book about political issues and the workings of government different then the History of our country and the people who contributed so much to the country that Harold and Ella bring to us could be discussed.  

We used to have a two week discussion about issues of the day that were based on publications we could read online - I wonder if  that could be resurrected and have a two week discussion once a month that even some books on government could be discussed by choosing the book the last two days of the two week session - then we could read the book during the two weeks that we wait to discuss what we learn - y'all may have other workable ideas - for now I am not sure the topic of politics is more than a temporary blowing off of steam after being inundated with so many attacks and the shock of how it all turned out - because regardless which man you hoped would win most of us were not secure in how it would turn out and none of us ever imagined the number of voters that would show support for the one chosen.

Maybe S&F should have been our guide as to just how ugly folks have become discussing their political views - yes, I too tried to enter the fray and for awhile was holding my own but it was an assault on your soul and facing the monster it was too easy to become a monster - I also note that it is very difficult to write in a way that conveys feelings when they are often expressed differently in various parts of the country and among our own social groups - that leads to all sorts of mis-understanding - we also read each other's posts in our own voice that may put the inflections of what we are saying differently then intended - which makes us think our post was not read -

And so not sure what I think is best or what I would want to commit my time - right now I see possibilities and I see land-mines and I also see opportunities for learning.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

MaryPage

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9832 on: November 10, 2012, 01:15:40 PM »
I think one really big difference is a matter of whether you have the attitude "this is who I am, and I am happy to set it all on the table in front of y'all and let you know who I am and where I am coming from and I am anxious to hear who YOU are and where you are coming from.  Later we can get into defending our ideas and giving our best to explain how we came by them and why we have them this day,"  or whether you have the attitude "this is who YOU SHOULD BE and you are a very horrible human being if you do not join me in shouting that this is the truth, the whole truth, and God's only given Truth and you will die a dreadful death and never see Heaven!"

In the Thumb & Finger Debating Society we always, without exception, took the first attitude, and we were shocked to the core when that woman, a sweet-looking woman, came and presented that second attitude.  Even those who shared her "values" could not understand why she felt compelled to be threatening towards those who did not.  All of our members had apparently been raised to respect the viewpoints of all those in whose company they found themselves.  We had not been raised in an atmosphere where it is not only alright, but is considered Correct to go on instant attack on others for their opinions.

Winchesterlady

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9833 on: November 10, 2012, 01:23:45 PM »
"The interest of the past few weeks has been understandable.  Now, why not simply close
the curtain on all of that and return to our usual business."

I think Babi said it best.  I'd love to read more book discussions and talk politics somewhere else.
~ Carol ~

JeanneP

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9834 on: November 10, 2012, 01:36:04 PM »
That is O.K Mary. I have been told to Leave the country also over in S And F today.I am a lucky one. I get to leave it every 2 or 3 years for awhile anyway.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9835 on: November 10, 2012, 01:39:37 PM »
 :D  ;)  ::)  ;D  :D  ;D
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

pedln

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9836 on: November 10, 2012, 02:21:15 PM »
Well, I like MSNBC’s Morning Joe because you get both sides there.  Joe Scarborough doesn’t let you forget where he came from, and then Mika B makes sure the other side gets a voice.

Yesterday Thomas Ricks was on talking about his new book, The Generals: American Military Command from WWII to Today.   Considering the news of the past few days, one wonders if perhaps the book came out too soon.

Quote
History has been kind to the American generals of World War II—Marshall, Eisenhower, Patton, and Bradley—and less kind to the generals of the wars that followed. In The Generals, Thomas E. Ricks sets out to explain why that is. In part it is the story of a widening gulf between performance and accountability. During the Second World War, scores of American generals were relieved of command simply for not being good enough. Today, as one American colonel said bitterly during the Iraq War, “As matters stand now, a private who loses a rifle suffers far greater consequences than a general who loses a war.”

One of my mother’s brothers was career army, a major general who served under Omar Bradley during WWII.  As a kid, it always puzzled me that a major general had fewer stars than a Lt. general.  When Bradley’s book, A Soldier’s Story, came out, he sent my family an autographed copy, “To Tubby’s brothers and sisters”  It had a place of honor on the book shelf, but I don’t know if anyone read it from cover to cover. After looking at some reviews I think I missed the boat, and should retrieve it from whichever nephew now has it.

marjifay

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9837 on: November 10, 2012, 02:32:03 PM »
I'd be in favor of a discussion group along the lines Frybabe suggested, where books on political, economic history, etc. were discussed.  I think there are quite a few here who could discuss the subjects without putting others down for their opinions.

Marge
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

Winchesterlady

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9838 on: November 10, 2012, 03:03:48 PM »
I'm reading "Love, Fiercely" by Jean Zimmerman.  It's the story of the marriage of Edith Minturn and Isaac Newton Phelps Stokes.  They grew up in Staten Island and knew each other from childhood.  They were both from wealthy, privileged families of the the Gilded Age.  I love this time in history and discovered this book while doing an Internet search on John Singer Sargent, whose portraits I've always loved.   Edith and Newton were married in 1895 and given the portrait by Sargent as a wedding gift.  Here's a link to the painting:  http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/38.104 .  I've just started the book, but so far it's a very good read.
~ Carol ~

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Library
« Reply #9839 on: November 10, 2012, 03:21:26 PM »
That time in history is getting a good look isn't it with Henry James on Broadway and it was the time that Downton Abbey started that after WWI some would like to go back to how it was. Lots of beauty created during the Gilded Age however, lots of exploitation and a no holds barred ability to become a wealth barron. The paintings of Sargent have such majesty about them and their size commands a room's attention. In 1895 is when my grandmother married at the age of 16 which at the time was not unusual. She had 12 children of which only 3 lived into adulthood.

Looks like the women's plight and issues are still with us - found this today...

Quote
Shocking statistic? “Women are half the world’s population, yet they do two-thirds of the world’s work, earn one-tenth of the world’s income, and own less than one per cent of the world’s property.” (Source: World Bank)
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe