America's Prophet by Bruce Feiler February Bookclub Online

[ANNIE]

I am at the end of the book.  I want to thank all who came in here and participated in this most interesting discussion.  Its been a great pleasure to hear from all of you.  Did anyone click on the link to BF talking about his book on Glenn Beck show and Glen reading Emma Lazarus as he thought it should be read:  Pretty powerful stuff.

The book has certainly left me with much to think about and I am going to try to pick up one or two of the titles that he mentioned throughout his story. 

Attention:
I have asked, on all sites that I can, for prayer for my 53 yr old daughter, Barbara, who is fighting for her life right now as she tries to get over having a crashed immune system and poorly functioning lungs.  She is an asthmatic so every infection she gets lands there.  The drs have advised against going to the hospital as she could just make herself more ill.  This has been going on since November. Please keep her in your good thoughts and prayers.

[ANNIE]

Look what I found in my Spam folder.

Bruce sent you a message.

--------------------
Subject: Senior Learn

Dear Ann,

I just tried to log on to your site and post a thank you message.  It declared me spam and refused my application!  Thank yoiu all for taking the time to read through and discuss the book.  Looks like the conversation was heated, and I appear to have taken a lot of hits!  Efforts like yours are pioneering and are model ways of bringing people together to share ideas.  I am honored to have been included, and I hope we get to work together in the future.

See you on Facebook!

With appreciation,

Bruce

[JoanP]

Oh I  Bruce F, I wish you  had been able to post here!  We would have had the opportunity to explain our concerns about some of the examples of Moses in America, yes, but we  also would have thanked you for your research which indeed showed the influence of Moses and Exodus on the early days of our country.  I'd have liked to talk with you more about what you mean when you say

"this generation needs a Moses."

You present something to think about when you describes this phenomenon in America - "a generation growing up more successful than their parents."  Educated parents have achieved the "promised land" -  they have expectations that their children will follow the same path - their path.  You tell  us that there is a need for males to outstrip parents.  Do we agree with this?  If this is true,  they must find their own fulfullment, come up with a "personal promised land,"- other than that which their parents had chosen.

Can Moses lead the next generation to this promised land of personal fulfillment? -  "Caring for others, taking care of neighbors"  is a way of defining  success - perhaps in a way that our generation did not value enough?  I was also interested in the statistics that showed 96%  of Americans believe in God, 85% say religious values are important...
I think I can see that, but sense that organized religion and church attendance is no longer so  important to the next generation as it once was.  I'm not sure I understand what the author means when he says we are a "Biblical Nation" in terms of values that go back to the Bible.  Do young people spend time reading the Bible?  Can we be a Biblical nation without reading the Bible?

Ann, your Barbara moves to the top of my prayer list - Hopefully prayer,  her doctors and modern medicine can find a way to restore her to health.

[Babi]

  I so greatly enjoyed your earlier books, Mr. Feiler, that I was happy to learn of a new one.
This one has made me work harder, but I found a lot I didn't know and that always pleases me.
  I greatly admired your analysis of Lincoln's Gettysburg address. I never realized there was so
much classical reference to be found in it.  And the plethora of faux funerals for Washington!
It's fortunate he knew nothing about them, as  I believe he was a very private man.
 So many things to talk about. It is a pity you had difficulty in getting into Seniorlearn.  There were so many questions I would have loved to ask you.  (Perhaps you lucked out there.  )
  Best wishes for your future plans. I wonder where you will go next?

[Ella Gibbons]

How nice to see BRUCE FEILER take note of our discussion and to compliment our efforts of sharing ideas.  It sounds as though he read the posts;  I do hope he took note of our admiration for his previous two books ABRAHAM and WALKING THE BIBLE which we discussed in the past.

I hope we may meet with Mr. Feiler here on SeniorLearn in the future with another biblical historical book.

Thank you, MR. FEILER!

[bellamarie]

Welcome March!  I look forward to the more moderate temps to help me with this frustrated feeling from so much snow that has hit Ohio and neighboring states.  I popped in from time to time to read your most interesting posts.  How exciting to see Mr. Feiler actually read our posts.  I think the biggest compliment an author could ever receive is seeing a heated discussion of his book.  Good, bad or indifferent, a book is a success only if it has people reading it and talking about it.  So congratulations Mr. Feiler in accomplishing this feat.

I was very excited to begin the discussion and begin learning more about American history.  Since I was familiar with the Bible and Moses, there was nothing new to learn, but to analogize Moses to our founding fathers and the creation of America's Constitution and laws and the formation of a united nation, I must say it was brilliant!  There were many parts I did not necessarily find accurate, but it did not matter to me because I could clearly see he was able to show us that yes, back then as well as today scripture and Biblical characters will play a part in politics and legislation.  I strongly feel we have lost the youth of today and they are not nearly as interested in an organized religion.  I feel the generation following the Baby Boomers have become more interested in what's in it for "ME".  The country is changing, and I believe while the statistics show as JoanP pointed out 96% believe in God and 85% say religious values are important, they are not as willing to hold the tradition or the weight in which the Bible or the founding fathers proved to be successful in providing us with a United, moral, peaceful, respectful, disciplined, and strong nation/world.  Times they are a changing, and unless we can get our youth more focused on the values and laws that were given to us so many decades ago, I fear we are headed for a decline in human respect and a world of chaos.  Or are we already on the verge of it as I speak?  Our two parties are fighting  not only with each other but they can't seem to agree within their own party.  The Progressive movement is trying to become the popular way in the United States, and in seeing the threat of it I sense Americans are beginning to turn back to the conservative way of living, which means they are realizing we must respect life, law, and liberty.  

Feiler's book got me to really think about how over the years we have lost so much, we have become a watered down nation, chasing elusive dreams of being more like the Europeans, we've lost our standing in the world, much like the Egyptians wandering in the desert.  We must turn back towards our initial values, if we are to become a nation of credibility, credence, and common good for all.  Do we need a Moses today?  Indeed we do, and each and every one of us can be a Moses.  We can do our part in leading our politicians back to the beginning, the Constitution our founding fathers created for us, with the guidance of Moses.  WE THE PEOPLE CAN FORM A MORE PERFECT UNION,  we can and must do our part, just as Moses in leading the people to the "promised land."  Religion and politics...hmmm we were taught to keep religion out of our government, schools, etc., interestingly, religion has always been in from the beginning.  

Annie,  my prayers are with your daughter and I thank you for a fine leader on such a difficult book to discuss.  No criticism intended Mr. Feiler, but I am sure you will agree, when you put these two topics together this is what you would expect.  

Jean, my prayers are with you and your family in the loss of a loved one.  You proved to be quite the knowledged historian.

Babi, You simply blew me away with your Biblical knowledge, your wisdom is what I strive for.

Mr. Feiler, If you should happen to pop in again, I thank you, for the American history lesson and the extreme amount of work you had to have put into writing this book.  My prayers are with you and your family, and pray for only good health for you. 

Thank you all,  I look forward to sharing many more discussions with all of you fine advid readers.

Think Spring!!!!  

[mabel1015j]

I have to make just one last comment here - it's amazing how current events come together sometimes. It was my BIL who died and we had his service on Saturday. He was born to a Mennonite minister and wife - Jacob and Sarah - in Indiana, 80 yrs ago. As an adult he was not at all interested in organized religion and would have called himself an athiest, altho he and my SIL, an AFrican-American woman, met at a Unitarian Church. As i read on pg 307 BF's comments to his dgts, i tho't "this is Jim to a 'T.'"

BF writes that the second msg of Moses is a narrative of hope. He writes: You should read the Israelites'story, too, and remember this lesson: There is a moral dimension to the universe. Right can prevail over might; justice can triumph over evil. ....You should read the story of Moses and remember to flip a few pyramids yourselves along the way......you should question authority. Over turn injustice. Befriend the stranger, for you, yourselves, were once strangers in a land w/ no hope. Jim was a brilliant man w/ myriad interests including math, painting, flying, photography and computers, but he did not - would never - work directly for a corporation (he did contract work w/ them as a computer programmer, but not working directly for the corporation). He worked at non-profit agencies, teaching less privilieged people about computers AND about life, but in the most quiet way you can imagine. He had a healthy skepticism about authority, especially gov't, always investigating what was true and what was false. All of his life was based on what he tho't the right/fair thing was to do for  people.

Somewhere in the discussion we asked the question "can you be moral w/out being religious?" When i answered "Absolutely!" I was thinking of Jim.

The History Internat'l Channel is running a program this week about "The Ten Commandmants."  They have many contemporary people discussing the event and emphasize the 600+ commandments and the ambiguity of such commandments as thou shalt not kill. Look for it if you have the channel, it was very good..................jean

[ANNIE]

Thanks for the posts concerning our most interesting discussion of "America's Prophet".  I hope BF makes it here.  I will give him a heads up in his blog plus I emailed him with a link to here telling about all the posts.

Jean,
Thanks for the super post on your impression of the book.  Also thanks for the note on The History Channel's TV program about the 10 commandments.  I will see if I can get it.
I loved your story of your  BIL's active life.  He must have been a special man to know.   I, too, was in Indiana (Indianapolis)week before last to bury my BIL but, poor soul, never did have much of a life for his last 15 years. But now he rests in peace.

And Bellamere,
I truly liked your forthrightness about this book.  Made for a truly more interesting discussion.  And, yes we do need a new Moses in this country.  Too bad one hasn't shown up yet. 
I agree that our younger generation has been taught to think only of me me me.  One of my grans was so intense on saying his book report was correct that he avoided all of our comments and suggestions.  Probably sorry he asked! hahaha!  But, it seems as though they think that adults know nothing.
Have you read any of the Dumbing Down of our Children books??  Not just dumbing them down but showing them that they are always right and the older generation is always wrong.

Babi and Joan, Ella
This has absolutely been an eye opener of a discussion, hasn't it?   And I can see that we all need to hear from our author.  We have all had such an array of different reactions to each chapter.  What fun to find so many opinions honestly spoken.  Hey, and we all still speakin' to each other!!

[bellamarie]

Ooooops  correction.....I meant Israelites wandering.... NOT Egyptians, in my post.  

[ANNIE]

Hey, Belle, that's all right---we knew what you meant to say!

Thanks for the prayers for my daughter and our family.  They are so needed and so appreciated.

[mabel1015j]

Annie - i can't believe that children's books are being "dumbed down." The words in my g-son's 2nd grade books are amazing. Some of the spelling words he's had i know i didn't know until 6th or 7th grade. And the stories in the books are often complicated science/invention stories. Now, that doesn't mean that someone, somewhere isn't dumbing down - altho, i'm not sure i know what that means, until they get to middle school or high school. Some high school history texts i've seen have material that i didn't get until college...........oh well, i guess it's happening somewhere.....................too bad, kids are so sophisticated today, compared to me..........jean

[ANNIE]

Jean,
I am going to take this conversation about education to a different place later this year.  In the meantime, I have emailed to you, (if your email is available on SL) some links about 'The Dumbing Down of our Children'.  We can find a place, maybe later in a Curious Minds discussion, where we can look into this idea.

[Babi]

Thanks for posting that qote, JEAN. I love the image of young people
flipping a few pyramids. And I have noted (haven't we all) that it is
possible to be 'religious' and not be moral!

 ANNIE, thank you for taking on this challenging book for discussion.  I appreciate
all the hard work you put into it and you've done a great job. Take a bow. 

[Jonathan]

Shofar echoes and cherry blossoms. Next year in Washington, now that Passover is being celebrated at the White House.

Good to hear from the author. Marvellous work he has done exploring the past and searching for his roots, and how they have served to nourish the promising land.

I've never read a chapter quite like this final Chapter 10: 'A narrative of hope.' What a journey Bruce makes of it, getting to the reasons for celebrating Passover, getting to see Exodus as a perspective from which to view a chosen peoples' fate, remembering the duty to keep its spirit alive, distinguishing between commandment and law.

" And when your children ask of you...you shall say...."

I found it very touching that the duty-bound author's last words are directed to his two daughters.

page 308. 'I will tell my daughters that this is the meaning of the Moses story and why it has reverberated through the American story. America, it has been said, is a synonym for human possibility. I dream for you, girls, the privilege of that possibility. Imagine your own Promised Land, perform your own liberation, plunge into the waters, persevere through the dryness, and don't be surprised - or saddened - if you're stopped just short of your dream. Because  the ultimate lesson of Moses' life is that the dream does not die with the dreamer, the journey does not  end on the mountaintop, and the true destination in a narrative of hope is not this year at all. But next.

What an awesome thing the author has made of the Moses story. What a towering figure Moses has become for all who care to examine the ancient Jewish scriptures. There he is directing the main event in Jewish history - the escape from Egypt. But was it really a wise move? Even the author has serious reservations.

page 307. 'As I found in my in my own travels in the Sinai desert over the years, no matter how full of hope the Israelites were when they departed Egypt they were leaving the most civilized place on earth for the most barren, based only on the word of a God they'd never actually  seen and a leader they barely knew. Moses is the enemy of caution...'

And maybe not such a good leader after all. Exodus, for ensuing generations, became a pattern. And never did they leave voluntarily. Through Acts of God they found themselves expelled from Egypt. Persuaded that they had become slaves they followed Moses  into the desert, and from there in an endless search for what turned out to be true but always  truncated episodes of freedom. How passing strange. Moses seemingly had no plan. A Joseph he wasn't, who was so good for his people in Egypt

And yet Moses lives on in America. Along with the Puritans, he preceded his people to America to prepare a place for them. Well enough for Bruce to declare that:

'The Passover story is America's story.'

But it will have to be an internal Exodus. There's no where else to go. As for the cherry blossoms. I found the blossom petals that had fallen into my open book as I sat reading it under a cherry tree near the Jefferson Monument many years ago, when I first found my self fascinated by the strange story of the Israelites' strange quest for their own place.

Thanks Ann, and everybody, for the stimulating discussion.

[mabel1015j]

I just want to add my thanks to Ann for leading the discussion. The DL's put in a lot of time and brain-power leading us thru all the highways and byways of these many book discussions and we are always grateful.........jean

[GinnyAnn]

I want to thank everyone who made this discussion possible. THANKS!

[JoanP]

Here! Here!  To echo Ginny Ann, a big thank you to the author for writing the book, for reading our posts, to Ann for seeing us through, keeping us moving in a timely fashion in spite of her own family's troubles, and  to each of you who shared your concerns, insights, knowledge.  You inspired others to do the same each time you spoke.  
Jonathan, an open invitation to you -to all of you.  Cherry blossoms will peak at the end of the month - door is open!
Prayers for Ann's Barbara.
Joan

[Persian]

I'm not sure whether this discussion is still open for posts or not, but I wanted to add my own thanks for the interesting and varied comments throughout the past few weeks.  I have been dealing with an unplanned health issue - now resolved - so was not able to join in as much as I had hoped.  I laughed when I read BELLEMARIE's correction about "wandering Israelites, NOT Egyptians."  My wandering Egyptian is returning home this evening.  A good friend will meet him at the airport in about and hour and bring him home.  That gift of kindness will cost me Persian tea and chocolate.  What a deal!

Best wishes to all as you continue your world visions through literature and vibrant discussions.

Mahlia

[ANNIE]

Persian
So glad you were able to comment here.  We are leaving it open hoping our author will get a chance to read the latest posts from the readers.