Author Topic: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2  (Read 775005 times)

Steph

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4400 on: February 09, 2013, 06:27:51 AM »
         
This is the place to talk about the works of fiction you are reading, whether they are new or old, and share your own opinions and reviews with interested readers.

Every week the new bestseller lists come out brimming with enticing looking books and rave reviews. How to choose?


Discussion Leader:  Judy Laird


I must not have seen girls basketball in many many years, since the only game I remember would be the six player, very static game. Iknow that my Alma Mater, U. of Del.. has a star female who everyone is going to the games to watch.
Senior learn is being complicated today... Library wont let me reply.Will try again later.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

Babi

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4401 on: February 09, 2013, 09:18:28 AM »
The Harlem Globetrotters were amazing, weren't they, MARJ? I'm not a sports
fan, but I loved watching them doing their magic with that basketball. I played basketball
one year in high school.  Had one proud moment when, blocked into a corner, I thought
"why not", spun around and made a basket from that back corner.  YAY!


 Money is a highly convenient thing, I must say. It can be a curse, tho', when
it destroys families and friendships. It occurs to me, tho', reading Jeanne's
post, that the access provided by computers must have a lot to do with the
rise in embezzling. Seems as tho' every advance has it's downside.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

maryz

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4402 on: February 09, 2013, 11:04:52 AM »
Babi, the Harlem Globetrotters are still going strong (different players, of course  :D).  They did a show here a couple of weeks ago.
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

mabel1015j

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4403 on: February 09, 2013, 12:12:34 PM »
I am still enjoying Shaman by Noah Gordon, altho slowly. He gives the reader so much to think about. He has addressed the Dred Scott case, harboring runaway slaves, the distress of Native Americans as they are harassed by Euro-Americans moving to the "frontier" - in this case Indiana/Illinois, teaching a deaf child on that frontier, and of course, medical practices - the protagonist is a doctor. The writing covers most of the current events in a superficial way, but just bringing them to the readers attention made me think more deeply about those events.

My constant philosophical question as i have read/studied history for 55+ years is "how is it possible for human beings to treat other human beings so horribly, painfully, uncaringly? " i understand the fear of the unknown and wanting to make everyone else think/believe the way i do in order to have control over my environment, but the extremes humanity has gone to, escape my understanding.

MaryPage

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4404 on: February 09, 2013, 01:34:33 PM »
Ditto your second paragraph.  Except change the 55 to 70+.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4405 on: February 09, 2013, 03:09:58 PM »
That does seem to be the 64 million dollar question doesn't it - the closest I came was because they can - but that does not explain the inner core that allows us as a people to treat others in ways we can not imagine - It defiantly has to be that you have no concept of the 'other' sharing a connection to God that is a shared Universal power regardless of how we choose to venerate our god or gods.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

jane

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4406 on: February 09, 2013, 04:40:03 PM »
It seems to me that there must be people who are inhuman and amoral by their nature, their environment, their training, etc. 


BarbStAubrey

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4407 on: February 09, 2013, 07:02:41 PM »
just questioning I wonder if immoral is learned though - when you think of the birth of a child - then there is so much studied now about the brain - and something about an inherited part of our brain from ancient man - is this all a mix up in the brain but how can some of the for want of a better word techniques of cruelty be thought of - Just simple who in the world ever thought up water boarding which is mild compared to some horrors. But still who and how do they think of these things.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

JeanneP

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4408 on: February 09, 2013, 07:20:36 PM »
Do you think that Human Being now treat other humans differently ?If one reads back far enough and them come forward.  It doesn't seem to have changed much to me.  Always been pretty awful.  Just that the world population has gotten so high.  Also we hear about thing going on all over the world more.
Now I think the things that have happened in the Last hundred years have really gone far. Cruelty lot worse. Greed much higher.  We seem to be going backwards now.

jane

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4409 on: February 09, 2013, 07:28:41 PM »
I'm not sure, but I think if you read history, torture, cruelty, horrors of one kind or another have been with us forever.  I went to see the movie Les Mis and had to leave the theatre twice.  I cannot read or watch horror/cruelty.  But, I know it's existed since probably the beginning of time.  

jane

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4410 on: February 09, 2013, 07:56:49 PM »
yes torture has always been horrific but how do they think of these things - I  understand it is because someone want something from either the individual or the individual is in the way of what they want - which says it is all about power - the power to get what you want - OK so war is about power - for one group to get what they want regardless if it is to protect or justify a way of life it is still one wanting to get rid of the other's influence so they can continue perusing what they want. But when you hear and read about some of the Atrocities where does that come from.

I had no idea till fairly recently that drawn and quarted meant that you were tied to four horses and pulled apart in four directions - my god and then we hear about slow torture etc etc. where how do people come up with this stuff.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

MaryPage

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4411 on: February 09, 2013, 09:21:32 PM »
They are still stoning women, publicly, in the Middle East and Central Asia if they are simply ACCUSED of adultery.

In instances where a man is named as having committed adultery with her, nothing is done to him.

Bottom line, I think a lot of men get a deep thrill out of killing, and particularly a deep sexual thrill out of killing a woman.  I am completely serious here, and not trying to be provocative.  I totally believe that what I am saying is true.

And you know what, there is just not a whole lot we can do about it until people start talking about it publicly and doctors come forth and admit this is the way it is and a tremendous public SHAME for our species behaving in this animalistic way takes over.  We must first SHAME those who indulge these feelings.  Not the shame of holy men or women praying over them or with them, but a very public shame that says this is not acceptable behavior and our society will NOT condone it any longer.

From reading reviews, I get the impression there are a lot of books about the Viet Nam war and the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan that tell the ghastly truth about killing frenzies carried out by our servicemen in those wars.  I do not choose to read these books, as they render me unable to sleep or having nightmares when I do.  That is too much for this frail 83 year old body.  But the reading is out there for those who remain unconvinced.

It is all so sad.  So not what I want to believe of our species.  Yet we each and all make a dreadful mistake if we refuse to believe the bad news and only cling to the hopes we carry.  Unless we look full on at the Truth, we cannot solve our problems;  not a single solitary one of them.  Denial is the way we live.

rosemarykaye

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4412 on: February 10, 2013, 03:17:45 AM »
I believe it is all about control.  I was watching Call The Midwife last week, and one of the nuns had the line:

"where there is anger, there is fear"

I think many men are terrified of women, and many people are terrified of anything that is different.  People are obsessed with control, but I'm afraid i do see it as mainly a male domain - from possession of the TV remote control, to the stoning of women, and other groups.

Rosemary

Steph

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4413 on: February 10, 2013, 06:29:13 AM »
Oh Rosemary, that is such a true thing.. Anger and fear are tied so closely. Like Mary Page, I cannot do horror and pain any more. I am very very careful about movies and books now. I have read books on mental health that seem to believe that some people are born or develop a distance from humanity.They simply do not relate to anyone except themselves.. They actually like to inflict pain because it pleases them.. My only wonderment in this ... is ... are they human at all.. I don't believe in executions, but I do believe there are some people who need to be locked away. They cannot function without causing pain and death to others and should not be mixed I n with humanity. The original prisons were solitary confinement types and I suspect this is where a certain portion of humanity belongs.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

Babi

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4414 on: February 10, 2013, 09:09:53 AM »
  I know the Globetrotters are still with us, MARY, but I'm just not as enthralled with them as
I was with the original group. How quickly we become accustomed to what was once an amazing
wonder.

 Humanity does seem to have a way of 'dehumanizing' those who are different, don't they, JEAN?
It they can do that, then they have no need to be 'humane' towards them. They can do whatever
they please, whatever benefits them, without the guilt they should feel. Some people seem to
find it necessary so that they can feel superior in some way. It is horrible.
 As JANE points out, cruelty and horrors have been with us forever, but I notice they tend to
emerge more clearly in times of war. Official permission to hate and hurt the enemy seems to
cause these twisted minds and souls to surface more openly.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

pedln

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4415 on: February 10, 2013, 11:09:48 AM »
Has anyone read Mariatu Kamara’s Bite of the Mango?  I just heard of this book recently, about a young girl held by the “boy soldiers” of Sierra Leone.  I don’t know if I can read it anymore than I can bring myself to read Ismael Beah’s A Long Way Gone.  Yet my understanding is they are both books about young people overcoming cruelty and adversity in spite of tremendous odds in modern-day times.


JeanneP

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  • Sept 2013
Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4416 on: February 10, 2013, 04:07:04 PM »
Steph.

I have a different way of thinking. If someone take a person's life then theirs should also end. Specially now where so many children are being killed. Some by family members. Women's boy friends. etc. Why should the murderers sit in comfy prisons. Very few do any work. they are fed 3 meals a day. Read the other day that in our Prison here in town it is costing 58 dollars a day to keep them there.
This 17 year old who killed his grandparents and cousin. he got 25 years. Do the Math at $58 a day.  And think of how many murderers on in our Prisons.  Now if not 100% proven than hold off. But on 90% of the ones caught they are guilty.
Lots more are being done now. If they started putting them to death I don't think there would be as many.  It isn't that they are Mentally off as People say. It is just that they are mean and will not ever change

If a dog attaches and bites it is destroyed right away.

When one reads about the Holocaust and how many died in that and then you read that less than a dozen where put to death for the crimes the did.  Still amazes me.

Just the other day they found more bodies of young men in Chicago who had been murdered and buried by that one guy there.  He got life and was quite content doing his Art work in Prison. But finely someone did kill him in there.  He should have died long before that.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4417 on: February 10, 2013, 05:34:08 PM »
the only part that bothers me about that way of thinking is it makes us as a society no better than them - we kill what is inconvenient - I think we could save a lot of money if we could put a hold on the owners of prisons who spend their profit by wining and dining Congress to get more laws passed that will affect certain segments of society that do not have the money to properly defend themselves and therefore will fill their jails for a profit to them while we foot the bill.

I do not like the use of drugs any more than most but I do not like alcoholics driving and walking our streets either - however, our jails are filled with folks who use drugs with no plan to rehabilitate and as you say at $50+ dollars a day we could be building youth centers and better schools so they do not see a hopeless life filled with drugs. As to the dealers - jail time does not stop their operation - if they could make that kind of money working they would have an alternate career path.

Tackling both the profit center for prison owners, their influence with Congress and get the users out of jail would be a huge inroad to a better society - we can take care of the murderers later - there are so many other kinds of abusive behavior that even if convicted the abusers are back home in a few years - Most folks do not want to hear about either the victims unless it is over the top or give any understanding to victims taking care of themselves and fighting back - so it is a complicated circle.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

MaryPage

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4418 on: February 10, 2013, 07:59:19 PM »
I am opposed to killing.  Period.

NO killing.  It must be taught to be wrong.  It must be universally perceived to be wrong.

Most of the brutality comes from people who have been raised with brutality and never learned anything else.  It does not seem fair that a child be born into Life who will learn nothing but brutality and then practice it.  And then have their life snuffed out because they did what they were taught.

Face it, with myself and the people I know, I have never been shot at, never known a murderer, never known a person who was murdered (excepting 3 small neighborhood children who were killed by a mother who suffered post partum depression and her husband and family did not pay attention.  Her baby was 6 weeks old.) and never known of any type of crime.  I worked with an embezzler once, but that was workplace, she was not a friend.  Seriously, from birth to 83 years of age, I have never, ever been exposed to personal experience of criminals or crime.  So would you not conclude culture and class have a lot of influence?  How could you NOT conclude this?

I do not approve of the death penalty.  I think it makes us as bad, if not worse, than the criminal.  I believe in redemption and contrition.  I do not believe in putting a monetary price on a person's life.  If we, as a society, cannot learn to PREVENT terrible crimes as a community effort, than we must share the cost of closing ourselves off from the criminal;  of shunning the criminal from proper society.  But to kill, that makes us barbarians.

I will grant that we must defend ourselves when attacked, as was the case in World War II.  IMO, there has been no justifiable war fought by the U.S. since World War II with the single exception of the Bosnian War, where, I believe, we were part of the United Nations Task Force.

Steph

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4419 on: February 11, 2013, 06:10:51 AM »
yes Mary Page, I am opposed to any and all killing and any and all war.. But that doesn't stop it.. Actually we were once friends with a seemingly nice couple with four daughters ( young). They moved away and so did we, but a few years later, she found us in Florida.She had all four daughters in tow and was fleeing. She found out from some nasty pictures of one of her daughters, that her husband took horrid pictures of them and posted them in magazines that dealt in that and when she questioned her children, she found two of the girls had been molested.She went toi the police ( this was mid 70's) and they did not believe her, so she ran.. I know where she lives and under what name, but she has never ever wanted to be found.. She only stayed with us a few days and went on.. I also knew two suicides.. All of these people looked absolutely normal.. So sometimes you know horror and do not realize it.
I stopped with Taft, the Patchett. An early book, stream of consciousness and I just could not get interested.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

marjifay

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4420 on: February 11, 2013, 09:23:10 AM »
I'd not heard of either of those books, Pedln, altho' neither are new.  Both get good reviews at Amazon. I've put A Long Way Gone by Ishmael Beah on my TBR list.

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

Babi

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4421 on: February 11, 2013, 09:29:31 AM »
I can sympathize with your anger, JEANNE, though I don't really think our prisons
could be considered 'comfy'. It is my understanding, though, that it was shown,
statistically, that the death penalty did not curb the crime of murder at all. You
would think it would, but apparently not.
 I don't know what the answer is, except that I feel if we could get to the root
causes of whatever turns people into murderers, we might be more sucessful intervening
at that level.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

jane

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4422 on: February 11, 2013, 10:48:41 AM »
It's been found to cost more to execute a prisoner than to do a life sentence. 

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty


Financial Facts About the Death Penalty

California

Assessment of Costs by Judge Arthur Alarcon and Prof. Paula Mitchell (2011, updated 2012)

The authors concluded that the cost of the death penalty in California has totaled over $4 billion since 1978:

$1.94 billion--Pre-Trial and Trial Costs
$925 million--Automatic Appeals and State Habeas Corpus Petitions
$775 million--Federal Habeas Corpus Appeals
$1 billion--Costs of Incarceration
The authors calculated that, if the Governor commuted the sentences of those remaining on death row to life without parole, it would result in an immediate savings of $170 million per year, with a savings of $5 billion over the next 20 years.


Lots more info at that link for other states.

JeanneP

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  • Sept 2013
Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4423 on: February 11, 2013, 12:34:07 PM »
I still have a hard time with the American system. They know the person did the murder for sure. Some caught in the act and yet, they take years before that person is put to death if that sentence has been given.  Texas will still put more than any other State.
Most states don't have the Death Penalty.  Yet even in Texas I have seen over 5 years go by before it is carried out.
 
Why is all this money spent on Trials over and over when the fact of guilt are pr oven. Parents waiting when their child has been Raped and murdered. That's cruel.

Maybe I grew up in UK when hanging was still being done. Fact the Hangman for England lived in my town. Owned a pub. His Grandfather , Father had the position before him. I remember my Grandmother talking about how the town people could still watch the Public hangings That was in the Late 1920s.   You had a trial, found guilty and hung within a week.  Rape also came under this rule.
Last I heard him do was to 2 US black service men in Early 40s for Rape of a Local girl.  Also he was the Hangman that went to Germany to handle the Hanging of the Nazi's who were found guilty. This in 1946/7
No longer hanging in UK.  But still nowhere  near the murder done there like here in US where there seems to be getting more and more.
 Over 600 killing in Chicago this past year. 9 this past weekend. I don't say all those put to death because drugs are the main thing. (But not all).  The man who won the lottery for instance that they just found out was poisoned). That was greed.

They are still searching for this Ex Police that has already killed 3.. He is not insane. Just mad because he lost his Job.  Doubt they get him alive but if they do it will take years and lots of money spent trying him. Why! he admits he did it and says he will get more.   I do notice that now they are making it that when cornered these people are killing themselves.  Good.  Saves the State money.

Most people would not be against Capital punishment in this country if legalized again.  Young men are given a gun in the Military. Sent out with orders to kill the enemy on sight.  They do it. Don't even know  who that person is. Just get the 1st shot in.  Proven having done the murder   and Capital punishment would not bother them also.  Can't be soft hearted in one way and hard in another.

Been a long time since America has ever seen war in this country eye to eye.  Most other countries have. Seeing people killed in front of you makes one not quite so soft thinking. Look in the eyes of parents,families who have lost to murder make them less sympathetic.

My Opinion only. We are allowed remember.




Tomereader1

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4424 on: February 11, 2013, 12:36:12 PM »
Not on topic, but just read that Pope Benedict is retiring.  Last time I saw him on TV (I guess at Christmas) I noticed how very infirm he looked,and was very worried.  A pope has not retired since Pope Gregory in 1400+ something.
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4425 on: February 11, 2013, 01:22:33 PM »
Yep, Gregory in the fifteenth century and Celestine before that in the 13th century and then one of his namesakes, a Benedict in the eleventh century sold his papacy to his godfather, then he change his mind and tried to get it back - he ended up being excommunicated. Then there were a few who the kings disposed of - fun and games at the Vatican.

I still think this is politics - they had him on such a tight string - one of his early statements about the sex abuse did not go down well - within days it was scrubbed from every news outlet and from then on everything written that left his apartment had to be reviewed by the Sec. of State who later appointed 6 others from the Curia so that he would be covered at all times - I still think the deal with the Butler was a set up - he never looked perturbed - I think it was a way for him to get stuff out and the Butler took the fall - if you notice just over a year later the Pope got him out of jail.

My feeling is he was not going to get the Curia to reform itself which is what Pope Paul said would happen when he took that off the table during Vatican II and without reform there is no appropriate action in keeping with the twenty first century much less twentieth century science - Getting old, why should he keep the status quo as he lives out his years. We shall see if there are enough liberal Cardinals to outvote the conservative Cardinals serving in the Curia.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Steph

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4426 on: February 12, 2013, 06:33:53 AM »
The curia is a closed system.. not going to change..
Almost finished Dearie.. The authors are the kind that tell you everytime someone breathed hard. So I know a lot of things about Julia that are unnecessary, but a lot of it has been fun.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

Frybabe

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4427 on: February 12, 2013, 08:15:07 AM »
For the fans of all things nautical, here is a nautical adventure I just downloaded to add to my pile of reading. Looks interesting. http://manybooks.net/titles/collingwoodh2106721067.html

Babi

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4428 on: February 12, 2013, 09:33:59 AM »
 Now that is truly startling, JANE.  It had never occurred to me that the long process
of appeal would be a part of the costs of the death penalty. I really don't think that
the pre-trial and trial costs should be included though, since those would a part of
any criminal charges, irrespective of outcome.

 It does seem to drag out, JEANNE. Nevertheless, mistakes have been made, as we all
know. Better to give them every possible chance to exonerate themselves, than to execute
the innocent.

 BARB, who are these 'they' that have the Pope on a 'tight string'. The Pope can be
advised, but he can't be commanded. Where did you find the information that everything
leaving the Pope's apartment had to be reviewed, and I suppose okayed, but someone else?
You may be right; I just like to know the source of these claims.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

MaryPage

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4429 on: February 12, 2013, 11:08:34 AM »
Everything I have seen in these last few days tells me this pope has congestive heart failure, and of course he must resign.  No choice there.  He has a hard time breathing and is probably on oxygen when not in public.  He cannot walk more than a couple of feet at a time, and, if I have guessed right, soon will not be able to walk at all.  He would also, with this diagnosis, have a lot of anxiety, for the condition just worsens.  I am not a doctor, but have seen a lot of this in my 83 years, and I feel strongly I am most likely guessing correctly.

By Max Fisher , Updated: February 11, 2013
In the past 1000 years, only four other popes have resigned. Here are their unusual stories, which are also an indication of just how much the church has changed.

Pope Benedict IX, in 1045: At age 33 and about 10 years into his tumultuous term, the Rome-born pope resigned so that he could get married – and to collect some cash from his godfather, also Roman, who paid Benedict IX to step down so that he might replace him, according to British historian Reginald L. Poole’s definitive and much-cited history of the 11th century.

Pope Gregory VI, in 1046: The same man who had bribed and replaced his godson ended up leaving the office himself only a year later, according to Poole’s account. The trouble began when Benedict IX failed to secure the bride he’d resigned for, leading him to change his mind and return to the Vatican. Both popes remained in the city, both claiming to rule the Catholic church, for several months. That fall, the increasingly despondent clergy called on the German Emperor Henry III, of the Holy Roman Empire, to invade Rome and remove them both. When Henry III arrived, he treated Gregory VI as the rightful pope but urged him to stand before a council of fellow church leaders. The bishops urged Gregory VI to resign for bribing his way into office. Though the fresh new pope argued that he had done nothing wrong in buying the papacy, he stepped down anyway.

Pope Celestine V, in 1294: After only five months in office, the somber Sicilian pope formally decreed that popes now had the right to resign, which he immediately used. according to a report in the Guardian. He wrote, referring to himself in the third person, that he had resigned out of “the desire for humility, for a purer life, for a stainless conscience, the deficiencies of his own physical strength, his ignorance, the perverseness of the people, his longing for the tranquility of his former life.” He became a hermit, but two years later was dragged out of solitude by his successor, who locked him up in an Italian castle. Celestine died 10 months later.

Pope Gregory XII, in 1415: The elderly Venetian had held the office for 10 years, but he was not the only pope. For decades, the Western Schism had left Europe with two popes, one in Rome and one in the French city of Avignon, according to Britannica. The schism’s causes were political rather than theological: the pope had tremendous power over European politics, which had led its kings to become gradually more aggressive in manipulating the church’s leaders. Gregory XII resigned so that a special council in Constance, which is today a German city, could excommunicate the Avignon-based pope and start fresh with a new, single leader of the Catholic church.

Pope Benedict XVI, in 2013: Citing health reasons from old age, he announced today that he will step down on Feb. 28.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4430 on: February 12, 2013, 04:33:24 PM »
Babi both in the Catholic Reporter and a seminar that was available online from Boston a year or so ago. They being the more conservative members of the Curia who have the power to make things happen - there is the same battle between the conservatives and the liberals in Church politics as there is in our Congress. The US and Europe being more Liberal but the largest number of Catholics are now in Africa and South America where conservative views abound.

I was pleased during last nights PBS News that Monsignor Hilgartner reminded everyone that the pope gets involved  politically because the pope is a world leader, because the Vatican is a country. And so looking at this as a political move is appropriate - the talk among some of us here is since he has appointed more than half the cardinals that will be voting was he able to switch the center of power away from the heavy Italian centered Curia where most of the cardinals with power are Italian.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Steph

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4431 on: February 13, 2013, 06:08:58 AM »
This Pope has never interested me except for two facts,, one he was in the Nazi Youth ( I know.. lots of excuses, he still was) and two, he has been involved in protecting priests who were child molesters. Both things put me off being impressed by him.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4432 on: February 14, 2013, 12:11:01 AM »
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Steph

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4433 on: February 14, 2013, 06:06:45 AM »
The roses are lovely. I try hard to ignore Valentines day except for sending my grands a valentine.. With Tim gone, it is bittersweet..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

marjifay

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4434 on: February 14, 2013, 06:55:11 AM »
JeanneP wrote: "Texas will still put more to death than any other State.
Yet even in Texas I have seen over 5 years go by before it is carried out."

Those idiots in Texas would put you to death for looking crosseyed at a Republican.  I remember when working in Human Resources and interviewing a young man for a job, that he said he'd just got out of 10 years in prison in Texas for using marijuana.

I'd bet you'd like the U.S. system of appeals if one of your children were falsely accused of a crime.  Look how many people have been released from prison recently when it was proven by DNA that they hadn't committed the crime for which they were accused.

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

Babi

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4435 on: February 14, 2013, 09:18:41 AM »
 I agree with you about the need for the system of appeals, MARJ, and for the same reason.  Still, as a
native-born Texan,  I must insist that we are not all idiots.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

marjifay

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4436 on: February 14, 2013, 09:33:08 AM »
You are most definitely exempted from that group of Texas idiots, Babi!  (LOL)

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

Tomereader1

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4437 on: February 14, 2013, 11:29:24 AM »
As another native born Texan, we are definitely not all idiots.
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

MaryPage

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4438 on: February 14, 2013, 02:39:54 PM »
My daddy, a Virginian through and through, was born in San Antonio by virtue of his daddy being posted there as an army doctor at the time.  My second husband, to whom I was married for 34 years before he died of colon cancer, was likewise born in San Antonio, though again it was an accident and he was raised in Big D.  So I have a lot of Texas inlaw kin, all of whom, strike that, most of whom I adored (most are gone now).  I also have some blood of my blood Texan kin.  My paternal/grandmaternal great grandfather was General Luther R. Hare, a Texas hero. of whom was written the book A Texan With Custer.  My political kin was a Hare from Sherman, Texas who was one of the first Congressmen from Texas.  I count Texas as one of my own.
And hey, y'all, your politics down there at present are KRA - ZEE.  Nuts.  Someone is eating too many worms straight out of Tequila bottles.  Or sumpen.  I am delighted, however, with those Castro twins from San Antonio.  Castro!  Who knew!  When the one who is a mayor grins, I go all glooey.  As if he would notice this 83+ year old crone!  I was a huge fan of Ann Richards and, it goes without saying, Molly Ivins.  And I was all the way with LBJ, but I was upset by Viet Nam.  I was also disappointed he chose not to run again.
So you present day Texans must see how conflicted I am.  Son Chip, age almost 49, still holds the Cowboys number one in his heart, and ergo he hates the Redskins, one of our two local teams; the Ravens, whom he tolerates, being the other.
No, not ALL Texans are cuckoo.  But ya just gotta admit, the ones who're running the circus these days are beyond redemption.  Scheesch!

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4439 on: February 14, 2013, 02:55:14 PM »
Oh there has always been a circus at the State Capitol and in a few County Courthouses as well - what would folks have to talk about if it was all nice and proper and fair.  ;)
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe