Author Topic: Poetry Page (Read 725126 times)

PatH · « **Reply #4240 on:** August 13, 2016, 02:34:29 PM »

Our Poetry Page Reads
Shakespeare Sonnets

2016 the world commemorates
400 years since the death of William Shakespeare.

April, 1616. A man died, but a legacy was born; one which proved
so essential not only to the development of
drama and literature, but to language, to thoughts and ideas.

A Sonnet a Day
July 1, till December 1,
We read in order, from 1 to 154
A Shakespeare Sonnet each day.

Welcome
Please share your comments about the day's Sonnet.

Link: First Post of Our Discussion on July 1

Shakespeare Anniversary Links

Discussion Leaders: Barb

PatH · « **Reply #4241 on:** August 13, 2016, 02:36:41 PM »

I finally figured out enough of yeseterday's sonnet to have something to say, but I'm traveling, so it'll have to wait for a gap later today.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4242 on:** August 13, 2016, 03:40:24 PM »

Bless you Pat for leaving the space for the heading - nice...

Bellamarie it sure looks like he is going to speak about melancholy for a bit doesn't it - Yes, in real life I am sure you and your friends have made good choices in your married life but it is a fun story - thanks for sharing it.

Back later today - there is rain on the way - oh and how welcome it will be if nothing else it will get us out of these triple digits - and so I have things to do - do not trust myself to drive unnecessarily in the rain so I am off - of course then when I return I need to shelve all the groceries and then of course take a nap - ah the glories of aging...

Leah · « **Reply #4243 on:** August 13, 2016, 05:08:37 PM »

For nimble thought can jump both sea and land
As soon as think the place where he would be.

Similar yearnings may have led Gene Roddenberry to dream up the Star Trek transporter.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4244 on:** August 13, 2016, 08:49:01 PM »

A good one Leah - if the Sonnet did not influence him similar thoughts and feelings were his 'muse'

The line that got me - I must attend time's leisure with my moan, how wretched - to moan to me is more filled with despair than crying - a moan feels so alone...

Well the sky is having a good cry today and tonight we are to expect a rip roaring melt down sobbing that will go on for the next few days - the earth sure can use it - the grocery was so crowded with everyone stocking up since any plans to go out to the lakes are cancelled and kids are getting antsy - they know school starts in another two weeks since last weekend was tax free weekend and with the heat they have been cooped up most days - going to the lake they could have run off some of their energy - but not to be - from what I saw it appears tonight will be movie night in most homes.

I thought I would pick up a sandwich but the shop closed early - I've enough to get me through tonight and if the rain is bad I can manage tomorrow and so I can either shop first thing before the church crowd or wait till Monday - I've plenty of coffee and rice, veggies and olive oil - so the storm will not have me an emotional shipwreck tonight although, like most of us who have really lived there have been times...

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4245 on:** August 14, 2016, 01:03:33 AM »

Shakespeare Sonnet XLV

The other two, slight air and purging fire,
Are both with thee, wherever I abide;
The first my thought, the other my desire,
These present-absent with swift motion slide.
For when these quicker elements are gone
In tender embassy of love to thee,
My life, being made of four, with two alone
Sinks down to death, oppress'd with melancholy;
Until life's composition be recured
By those swift messengers return'd from thee,
Who even but now come back again, assured
Of thy fair health, recounting it to me:
This told, I joy; but then no longer glad,
I send them back again and straight grow sad.

William Shakespeare's Sonnet 45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy8sXbSM8ck

Leah · « **Reply #4246 on:** August 14, 2016, 10:22:15 AM »

This reminded me of a poem I wrote back in 1978 when there were several sudden departures among my group of close friends.

Faces loved, lost, and longed for
Snap and smartly shock sputtering synapses -
Call it static cling.
When I'm shorted out too long,
And I see they all are gone -
I become a missing person.

(An anatomy professor pointed out to me that vision has an electrical component which I was not aware of when I wrote it.)

I get an impression of S. hopping from one foot to the other and back again in a painful dance of fluctuating emotions. Sad song!

PatH · « **Reply #4247 on:** August 14, 2016, 11:46:27 AM »

Leah, your poem really hit home, brought a tear or two to my eye. I especially like "static cling".

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4248 on:** August 14, 2016, 12:34:17 PM »

Interesting I have not heard that bit before, that vision has an electrical component - Leah I would love to hear a bit more about that -

And yes, oh, oh, oh, do I relate that when friends die it is as if you are a "missing person" - we can meet new folks and have lunch and even have deep discussions but we cannot at our time in life develop a similar friendship as experienced with long time friends since we simply do not have the years in our lifetime, sharing our experiences and feelings, that it takes. Last year my best friend of 45 years passed, with the last 5 years bringing us particularly closer - what a mixed up set of feelings - I feel as you describe the hopping back and forth that Shakespeare writes in this poem - few tears, it was expected and she lived to be 96 and yet, a huge gaping empty hole that I struggle to fill.

Lots of pairs in this poem that as you say, he hops back and forth between them.

Air --- Fire
Thought --- Desire
present --- absent
Life --- Death
Four --- Two
Joy --- Sad

'Quicker elements' caught my eye - of course it takes me to the Periodic Table - however, the prerequisite to the Periodic Table was a happening after the lifetime of Shakespeare - "Although elements such as gold, silver, tin, copper, lead and mercury have been known since antiquity, the first scientific discovery of an element occurred in 1649 when Hennig Brand discovered phosphorous."

And so Shakespeare's use of air and fire must go back to Greek or Christian symbolism.

From Wikipedia:
Air is one of the four classical elements in ancient Greek philosophy and science. According to Plato, it is associated with the octahedron; air is considered to be both hot and wet. The ancient Greeks used two words for air: aer meant the dim lower atmosphere, and aether meant the bright upper atmosphere above the clouds.

Fire is one of the four classical elements in ancient Greek philosophy and science. It was commonly associated with the qualities of energy, assertiveness, and passion. In one Greek myth, Prometheus stole fire from the gods to protect the otherwise helpless humans, but was punished for this charity.

Leah · « **Reply #4249 on:** August 14, 2016, 01:38:14 PM »

http://www.shrinkpictures.com/download.php?i=phpqE0iCEAM.jpg

Synchronistically enough I just picked up a book that offers a brief mention of electricity as having a role in vision. The book is called PARADOX: the nine greatest enigmas in physics, by Jim Al-Khalili. The photo is from the book.

This is a first try at posting a photo using ShrinkPictures; hope it is in the right size, etc. If it needs adjusting, can someone tell me where I might find specific instructions. Crossed fingers! 🍀
Ah, I see- well, you can get there with the link, but I'd like to know how to do it so the photo appears in the post.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4250 on:** August 14, 2016, 02:37:05 PM »

Leah when you write a Post, above the writing area there are lots of faces and boxes with marks

The first row of marks starts with a large letter 'B' in a box - if you take your cursor and swipe over the word you want to show up as bold then hit that box with the letter 'B' the area that is darkened after you swiped it will have the code instruction before and after to make that word or phrase, bold

I will do it with spaces within the instruction so you can see - Shakespeare [ B ] Shakespeare [/ B ]

Below the box with the letter B is another box that it is difficult to see what the picture is within the box - that is the box you need to bring a photo to us - again spaces within the instruction so you can see what is happening - again swipe your link with the cursor so that it turns dark and then hit that first button in the second line with your cursor - the one with the indistinguishable picture inside the box.

[ img ]

[/ img ]

Ok one step further - for several reasons - including several readers who enlarge the contents of our discussions by using the wheel on their mouse - photos cannot be huge - within a post we shoot for a width size of max 400 to 450 and most we do around 300 - 350 - most of the photos I share as part of each Sonnet are between 280 and 350

I found just fooling with the width is adequate rather than including the length as well - when the width is adjusted automatically it affects the length - again - we keep the length also less than 450 and 400 works well.

Sooo - when you do the img thing [ img ] again, there is space before and after the 'img' so you can see what is happening - [ img width=300 ] and yes, there is a space between 'img' and the word 'width' - no space between 'width' and the = sign and no space between = and the actual number of pixels that in this case are 300

so if you put in your link to your photo http://www.shrinkpictures.com/download.php?i=phpqE0iCEAM.jpg
and then mark it with your cursor - and then hit the box with the undistinguished looking photo - the first box on the second line - then you have to go back into the instructions with the 'img' - add a space - add the word 'width' - add the = sign, - add the number of pixels - then be sure it is closed with the '/img' but no need to add the width etc. to close it.

[ img width=300 ]

[ /img ]

Leah · « **Reply #4251 on:** August 14, 2016, 06:14:19 PM »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retinal_waves

Forget the picture - here is a similar explanation.

Please overlook the apparent abruptness of this post - I am having another one of those bouts with all things tech today!

bellamarie · « **Reply #4252 on:** August 14, 2016, 06:43:07 PM »

Leah, that poem brought such emotions out of me. I have always been a "static cling" friend. And believe it or not, our priest used a dryer sheet that clings to our clothes today in his Homily. I love it when things happen stance like this in my life. Thank you for sharing.

Now, as for Shakespeare, I really feel sad for him. He seems to be a bit lost in depression. I'm anxious to see what if anything will change his mood.

Barb, we finally got our downpour yesterday, but today is back to heat & humidity. Ho hum.... I went to church and back home and have no desire to go anywhere today. Unlike you, if we get any bad weather we are only seconds away from our corner in and out mart/gas station, and only five minutes to our grocery store. After growing up in a rural country side, I married and became a city suburbanite. I am so enjoying watching th Olympics, the USA have dominated the medals and Michael Phelps and Katie Ledecki have just out swam all others. 24 Gold, 18 Silver, and 18 Bronze, Total= 60. The next in line is China with 41. So proud of our athletes!!

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4253 on:** August 15, 2016, 01:35:33 AM »

We also had rain Bellamarie - even have a window open - unbelievable the temps are in the high 70s - yes, Leah's poem says much to us - seems we can all relate. And yes, we all see in this Sonnet, Shakespeare describing the mature lover trying to come to terms with his sadness - sadness over rejected and telling us how his love is experienced.

Leah this is wonderful information that is stretching my brain - I need to sit with it for a bit - there are many aspects of seeing that I had no clue and is altering many of my preconceived ideas on other things as to how we really all see something different because of our individual experiences - I've said that before but never realized it was on this physical level - I am struggling with 'truth' and in one breath a jury system but in another can we ever see what the accused saw. Lots to dwell on here - thanks for the link.

Back to the poem, something hit me this evening - Air versus Fire and Thought versus Desire - Fire needs air and if the comparisons in the poem is a true equation than, as fire needs and consumes air so, desire must need thought and consumes thought - fits for me... and so next question for me is what triggers desire - latest brain study shows a place in our brain (forgot the name, hippo something) anyhow, this place craves feeling good and is the wellspring for getting our needs met regardless, socially acceptable or not. And now, add to that this concept of electronics as life opens us up to re-looking and re-thinking how we function and what is life...

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4254 on:** August 15, 2016, 01:37:10 AM »

Shakespeare Sonnet XLVI

Mine eye and heart are at a mortal war
How to divide the conquest of thy sight;
Mine eye my heart thy picture's sight would bar,
My heart mine eye the freedom of that right.
My heart doth plead that thou in him dost lie --
A closet never pierced with crystal eyes --
But the defendant doth that plea deny
And says in him thy fair appearance lies.
To 'cide this title is impanneled
A quest of thoughts, all tenants to the heart,
And by their verdict is determined
The clear eye's moiety and the dear heart's part:
As thus; mine eye's due is thy outward part,
And my heart's right thy inward love of heart.

William Shakespeare Sonnet 46
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA-5j6eqpjY

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4255 on:** August 15, 2016, 04:56:44 AM »

A few definitions to help... however this Sonnet may be more about sixteenth century associations making it a challenge to capture its meaning. If nothing else, we can enjoy the placement of words and the magic of their music.

This link explains the sixteenth century closet and its uses.
http://english.illinoisstate.edu/digitaldefoe/teaching/bobker/bobker.pdf

Well into the seventeenth century these huge "country" houses were designed so that the rooms opened to each other and often the room was completely opened to a hallway that ran the entire length of the house - privacy was behind the draping surrounding a poster bed - the article does a nice job of explaining not only the physicalities of a closet but also how the word was used to indicate other ways we cut ourselves off for privacy.

Moiety: 1. a half, Joint tenants own their estate by the moiety. - 2. an indefinite portion, part, or share. - 3. Anthropology. one of two units into which a tribe or community is divided on the basis of unilineal descent.

Moiety title is a legal term describing a portion other than a whole of ownership of property. The word derives from Old French moitié, "half" (the word has the same meaning in modern French), from Latin medietas ("middle"), from medius.

A quest of thoughts: today would be called an inquest.

impanneled: a body of jurors

bellamarie · « **Reply #4256 on:** August 15, 2016, 10:47:43 AM »

Sonnet XLVI

Without over thinking or over analysing, I see Shakespeare struggle with how to deal with living without his love.

Mine eye and heart are at a mortal war

It appears Shakespeare is battling between his eyes and heart. As much as he wants to look at a picture of his lost love, his heart wants nothing to do with experiencing the pain it will bring him.

As thus; mine eye's due is thy outward part,
And my heart's right thy inward love of heart.

He seems to be struggling with the outward and inner feelings. Don't we all deal with situations like this.... It makes me think of when I am at the movie theater and previews of a scary movie begins and I hide my eyes so I won't see what is happening to protect myself from feeling those feelings of fright. Once I see something it is hard not to react to it emotionally. When I see a newborn baby, I immediately feel my heart swell with complete joy and love. When I see a picture of a snake, I immediately feel frightened.

As much as Shakespeare's eyes want to look at a picture of his love, his heart is warning him of what it will feel in seeing it.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4257 on:** August 15, 2016, 11:18:15 PM »

That first line is telling isn't it Bellamarie - without it the metaphor to law would have led to lots of frustration - I do not know about you but the second half of this Sonnet was just words... pretty words and finding their meaning was nice but still did not make a smooth coherent comparison. He's hurting and so I can easily give him space but then it is 400 years later with all life's changes and changes to the use of words.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4258 on:** August 16, 2016, 01:22:12 AM »

Shakespeare Sonnet XLVII

Betwixt mine eye and heart a league is took,
And each doth good turns now unto the other:
When that mine eye is famish'd for a look,
Or heart in love with sighs himself doth smother,
With my love's picture then my eye doth feast
And to the painted banquet bids my heart;
Another time mine eye is my heart's guest
And in his thoughts of love doth share a part:
So, either by thy picture or my love,
Thyself away art resent still with me;
For thou not farther than my thoughts canst move,
And I am still with them and they with thee;
Or, if they sleep, thy picture in my sight
Awakes my heart to heart's and eye's delight.

William Shakespeare's Sonnet 47
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z__o8QslU40

bellamarie · « **Reply #4259 on:** August 16, 2016, 10:21:51 AM »

This sonnet is an extension, and almost a repeat of the prior one. He is trying to come to terms with dealing with his loss.

Leah · « **Reply #4260 on:** August 16, 2016, 01:15:18 PM »

The poet, as observer, has been expressing thoughts unique to the heart and the eyes.
They seem to be moving from combat to a more inclusive stance - allowing that each is part of the whole instead of struggling for the ascendancy of one over the other.

bellamarie · « **Reply #4261 on:** August 16, 2016, 01:28:24 PM »

For thou not farther than my thoughts canst move,
And I am still with them and they with thee;
Or, if they sleep, thy picture in my sight
Awakes my heart to heart's and eye's delight.

Shakespeare seems almost a bit desperate here. He is obsessing to the point of letting his day and night be filled with thoughts, of this lost love. He can't move on.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4262 on:** August 16, 2016, 08:52:16 PM »

Haha our feast or famine weather - after almost slipping back into drought conditions we have had rain this week like several of you - so much rain the earth is not able to absorb it as quickly as it falls - plus we have always been prone to flash floods - so today the siren's and fire department trucks honking as folks are being pulled from one low water crossing after another and the roads are so wet that tires are slipping so that right here in our neighborhood some very serious crashes - been out using a hoe to clear a few channels I dug last spring that allow this torrential water to more easily spill to the side of the house and into the backyard - result - not much computer time much less poetry.

My two cents - after reading the poem that included the word eye I more than ever need to re-read the link Leah posted about how we see things based on our own history - the flash thought was we really cannot see the poem as Shakespeare since our frame of reference is so different - but like you Bellamarie I too see him repeating his pain and despair that has consumed him over how to handle his lost love - I like that Leah - seeing this Sonnet as evidence he is becoming more inclusive rather than continuing the mortal war.

Well for now I need to continue my mortal war with the elements or I will have a house full of unwanted water.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4263 on:** August 17, 2016, 01:19:28 AM »

Shakespeare Sonnet XLVIII

How careful was I when I took my way,
Each trifle under truest bars to thrust,
That to my use it might unused stay
From hands of falsehood, in sure wards of trust!
But thou, to whom my jewels trifles are,
Most worthy comfort, now my greatest grief,
Thou best of dearest and mine only care,
Art left the prey of every vulgar thief.
Thee have I not lock'd up in any chest,
Save where thou art not, though I feel thou art,
Within the gentle closure of my breast,
From whence at pleasure thou mayst come and part;
And even thence thou wilt be stol'n, I fear
For truth proves thievish for a prize so dear.

William Shakespeare's Sonnet 48
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkJJbA0-Eqk

bellamarie · « **Reply #4264 on:** August 17, 2016, 04:11:12 PM »

Sonnet XLVIII

Art left the prey of every vulgar thief.
Thee have I not lock'd up in any chest,
Save where thou art not, though I feel thou art,
Within the gentle closure of my breast,

I see Shakespeare saying his love could not be locked up, he has him in his heart but that would not prevent anyone from being able to steal him, and that he is free to come and go. It appears Shakespeare is learning that love can not be kept as treasure in a locked up chest. This reminds me of the saying,

"If you want something very, very badly, let it go free. If it comes back to you, it’s yours forever.
If it doesn’t, it was never yours to begin with."

Quote

The creator of this general saying is not known. Jess Lair helped to popularize one version starting in 1969. He was given the statement by an anonymous student.

http://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/04/08/love-set-free/

bellamarie · « **Reply #4265 on:** August 17, 2016, 04:33:47 PM »

Barb, I pray you are able to manage no flooding in your home. I feel so bad for the residents in Louisiana. Our rains have stopped, but not before some flooding of streets and homes. We were very fortunate not to have any issues. Mother Nature seems to be very confused lately, I have a dogwood tree turning colors for Fall, an Easter Lily has rebloomed as though it's Spring, and my Rose of Sharon is in full bloom for Summer. My hubby said all we need is a snowfall and we'll have all four seasons at one time!

Please feel free to resize this pic. I just don't know how to make them smaller. So sorry.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4266 on:** August 17, 2016, 08:37:07 PM »

Bellamarie your photos are lovely - what a mixed up bit of nature in your area - I remember one year in August being in a the woods of New York state in a Girl Scout Camp for 2 weeks - it was after our camp season was over here so it had to be that session started Mid-August - but I do remember freezing - here I had come from sleeping in temps that went down into the low 90s and days of triple digits and there the days were in the 80s and the night's plummeted into the upper 60s or very low 70s - each of my first three nights (we slept on cots in tents) I had to ask for another blanket.

I had blankets beneath me and above me - borrowed a coat that was left in the lodge - never warmed up till lunch or after - and what was mouth dropping to me, there were definite signs of fall in the woods - nuts were falling, some leaves were turning and the one empty field was filled with golden rod... amazing - then of course funny, I get back home just before Labor day weekend to high 90s with summer still full throttle, knowing we have another month of summer and then balmy days and nights in October with signs of fall only starting in November.

And so with all of that I can believe the photo of your Dogwood showing color - have not seen a Rose of Sharon in years - had a neighbor that had one but it died some years back - the lily blooming is the amazing seasonal mix up - I thought they, like tulips, needed cold before they bloomed.

I had a dream last night as a result of this poem - strangest kind of dream for me - about a young man, collage age, cowboying and comes home between cattle drives. He is earning money to get his family ranch going after his father died. His mother died when he was a child - get this, even a backstory to this dream - anyhow very small town and he is invited to a sixteenth birthday party - sees how the girl interacts with all the guests from the youngest child and how she is helpful and and and of course falls for her and does not want anyone to notice he is looking at her while he chats with a couple of older men who drove cattle in their youth. He knows there is a 5 year age difference and she has a lot of growing up to do.

Now this next part is typical of my dreams - the age difference starts it followed by all the mental calculating of numbers - this time it was about plotting how many cattle drives he needs to get the ranch up and running, repairing the house etc. And how he meets and learns from a cowboy working for a large commercial spread what it takes to keep track of his expenses and how to make money work putting his earnings in the bank at the end of the drive so he is not robbed on the way home - and the numbers continue about how he has only 4 weeks left till the next trail drive and should he ask the girl to go out - and what can he do with her that costs little money - then the calculating of the cost of taking her out - the next town has a bowling alley and he wants to talk rather than sit silent in a movie - after bowling, she thinks she is being grown up and suggests a beer and he assures her she does not have to act with him and asks if she prefer a coke or an ice cream that he seldom even drinks beer - then she suggests they go to her home for apple pie her mother made and a glass of milk sitting on the back steps - parents overhear them talking and her mom knows this will be the one -

As he leaves the girl asks if he goes to church - he doesn't but knows she is asking him so she can see him - on and on till finally - yes, there is a finally - he is in a dilemma while night riding thinking and knowing he wants to marry her but cannot lock her up till she grows up and he is committed to his ranch which means being gone for months at a time - so when he returns with a gift of earrings, that presented another dilemma deciding a ring was not appropriate, he tells her he knows he cannot lock her in a box and knows she must date other boys and go to school dances but to know he is there and hopes after a few years when she is grown up she will marry him.

It was such a romantic dream that is not at all typical of my dreams - so what that was all about I have no clue - they say you work out your life in your dreams - all the calculating and facing dilemma's I understand where that comes from but to dream of a story with young love - my oh my - What I am doing today is seeing it as a message about a new commitment I either must make or I am already flirting with the idea and the commitment involves both responsibility as well as expressing what I love - yes, I do take dreams as signals to my life -

Now, today, my dilemma, I wonder if I would have had the dream if I had not read the Sonnet?

I am also playing around today with the thought of locking in a box all sorts of feelings rather than letting them loose - what is it about these feelings that I do not want to lose - some are sad and some are about being betrayed and some are about trust and some are about friendships that were really not in my best interests but something about them I lock rather than letting them free - yes, I found this Sonnet to be a ringer for me...

Leah · « **Reply #4267 on:** August 17, 2016, 09:58:38 PM »

To add to the plant life chat -
You all will be gratified to learn that the Pointsettia I brought home for last year's winter holidays has been with me since last December and has been growing like an adolescent.

Right beside it in front of the picture window is a kelly green Shamrock in bloom.

The asparagus fern in the laundry/shower room is getting a big head from all the humidity.

AND! the organic avocado pits have finally developed roots (the 15 -20 generic avocado pits totally failed to "place" AT ALL - I suspicious that they might be GMO [genetically modified fruits]) that have been designed not to reproduce. That said, my only interest is in having an avocado houseplant - not to produce avocados.

With all this weather talk, I am wondering where everyone lives.

Leah
Driftless Area of SW Wisconsin
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driftless_Area

As for dreams, I was trapped in JC Penney and no one I asked could explain how to get out.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4268 on:** August 17, 2016, 10:52:10 PM »

Ha ha trapped in JC Penny oh my was that a nightmare or a virtual shopping spree - funny - Leah I live for the past 50 years in Austin, and I believe Bellamarie lives in Ohio on the lakes but I forget which city - Joan whose birthday is today along with her twin sister Pat live in California now although, for years she lived in DC and Pat has been on the move here of late - I believe she does have an apartment in Seattle or one of the areas of the Northwest - I have no idea where Karen lives - that is my knowledge of the geography associated with those who have posted.

Interesting we read about that last glacial are of the north and on into Canada when we read For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson who along with his wife corresponded with us when we read his book.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4269 on:** August 18, 2016, 02:01:11 AM »

Been an hour looking at photos on line for the Driftless area - looks like lots of hiking and lake activities in the area - Leah do you hike or fish?

Had no idea that GMO foods do not reproduce - even more reason to grow what we can from seeds as we can find them - I just wish I knew which fruits and veggies I buy are GMO produced and which ones are not - need to find out what is grown in Northern Mexico where we get most of our fresh foods except for our many farmer's markets that sell local grown and I think in addition to Whole Foods one of our grocery market chains, HEB buys Texas grown but that means little because we do not know where they are buying their seed. More stuff to research...

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4270 on:** August 18, 2016, 02:01:35 AM »

Shakespeare Sonnet XLIX

Against that time, if ever that time come,
When I shall see thee frown on my defects,
When as thy love hath cast his utmost sum,
Called to that audit by advis'd respects;
Against that time when thou shalt strangely pass,
And scarcely greet me with that sun, thine eye,
When love, converted from the thing it was,
Shall reasons find of settled gravity;
Against that time do I ensconce me here,
Within the knowledge of mine own desert,
And this my hand, against my self uprear,
To guard the lawful reasons on thy part:
To leave poor me thou hast the strength of laws,
Since why to love I can allege no cause.

William Shakespeare's Sonnet 49
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zw1P3ogr18

Sonnet 49 in song by Janusz Radek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2PqMl6K87Q

Leah · « **Reply #4271 on:** August 18, 2016, 12:14:52 PM »

It is good to hear the poet acknowledge the right of the beloved to dump him even as he stays grounded in his own self-regard or worthiness - at least that is what I think is going on. Sounds like progress and at least he does not sound so anguished. NO - that part about self-worth isn't right, but I do sense a hint of it as if he is being disingenuous in some subtle way. I just cannot hear "poor me" without seeing an accompanying pout.

Barb - the site link below might be a place to start your GMO education!
It has a list of retailers that can be filtered by state, and several other points that recommend it.

I do not know if seeds from GMO foods are actually non-viable - I just thought that might explain why all the non-organic avocado pits I tried to sprout showed no signs of life, but the organic ones did. 😗

I am not much of a hiker nor a fisher person; I do enjoy walks with our English Springer Spaniel - although that has taken a hit recently since I made the mistake of using the mini-trampoline (rebounder) while barefoot and will have to be patient for this bout of plantar fasciitis to heal - yeah, that's it: waiting for my heel to heal!

I will look into the title you mentioned, and also ask if you know the book Driftless by David Rhodes. Other titles are Jewelweed, The Easter House, and Rock Island Line.
So far, I've listened to the first one a couple of times, but have yet to read the rest. He is quite a philosopher - the feelings he bundles up in the expression of the characters really resonated with me.

http://www.nongmoproject.org/gmo-facts/what-is-

bellamarie · « **Reply #4272 on:** August 18, 2016, 02:07:59 PM »

Leah, OMG a Poinsettia blooming in August! Now I know this world has gone upside down! My friend also said her Spring flowering bushes are now flowering again! I am so sorry to hear of your mishap on the trampoline. I hope your heel heals quickly!

Barb, I get a lot of my fruits and veggies from our grocery store and local market places. We have a few farmer's markets nearby as well. I am a avid health conscious eater, but I must say the GMO is not on my mind when purchasing fruits and veggies.

bellamarie · « **Reply #4273 on:** August 18, 2016, 02:15:36 PM »

Sonnet XLIX

And this my hand, against myself uprear,
To guard the lawful reasons on thy part:
To leave poor me thou hast the strength of laws,
Since why to love I can allege no cause.

Well, it seems Shakespeare is finally beginning to accept and admit the time for he and his lover is no more. It seems he is beginning to prepare himself for the time they do bump into each other once again, and expect his lover to either greet him cooly or not at all. Shakespeare seems to be falling into a self imposed, self destructing mindset, feeling he was not deserving of his love.

Leah · « **Reply #4274 on:** August 18, 2016, 02:45:19 PM »

Thanks for the healing energy, Bellamarie!

The easiest way to avoid GMO foods is to stick with organic.
This site looks like it could be really helpful per non-GMO sources.
https://gmo-awareness.com/shopping-list/gmo-free-brands/

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4275 on:** August 18, 2016, 07:27:41 PM »

Well there was no winning for loosing today on this site - here I was finally just after the noon hour ready to engage and lo and behold there is all this about GMOs - of course I had to check it all out and share it with my neighbors on facebook and then they had me share it further and we looked up more - that was just the first link Leah, then the second as we checked the parent companies and realized other aspects of how and what political financing emanated from these parent companies - on and on for hours - sheesh all from two links, I am sure offered in a simple helpful mode. Me oh my...

Again, just proves to me how the same information can be handled by different folks - which takes me back to your earlier link about how our eyes pick up information based on our past experiences that help interpret what we see.

Bellamarie according to what we saw on various links this afternoon it seems that Fiji apples have been added to the list of apples the government has OKed to be grown as a GMO product which includes field spraying with dangerous chemicals. The other two that had been approved sometime ago are Golden Delicious and Granny Smith. All to say beware even at a farmer's market.

All this sidebar about eating food as grown reminds me of the last line of the Sonnet - instead of a caution about attempting a future love life in response to a hurtful experience with a loss, we are suggesting (" Since why to love I can allege no cause.") cause to allege for questioning, why purchase GMO produced foods.

Well after we are alerted to heal and heel we probably could do ourselves a favor and see how often Shakespeare includes a homophone in his Sonnets - Bellamarie had not thought of preparing himself for bumping into this love later after all is lost - hmm - I was seeing the love as the many loves that fade away during our lifetime without thinking on the immediacy of his possible experience - good thought.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4276 on:** August 19, 2016, 12:28:58 AM »

Shakespeare Sonnet L

How heavy do I journey on the way,
When what I seek, my weary travel's end,
Doth teach that ease and that repose to say
'Thus far the miles are measured from thy friend!'
The beast that bears me, tired with my woe,
Plods dully on, to bear that weight in me,
As if by some instinct the wretch did know
His rider lov'd not speed, being made from thee:
The bloody spur cannot provoke him on
That sometimes anger thrusts into his hide,
Which heavily he answers with a groan,
More sharp to me than spurring to his side;
For that same groan doth put this in my mind,
My grief lies onward, and my joy behind.

William Shakespeare Sonnet 50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAsMT5-vqnw

Leah · « **Reply #4277 on:** August 19, 2016, 11:23:20 AM »

Sorry, Barb and Bellamarie, guess I got off track with the link references.😘

Well, for my money, sonnet 50 is the most straight-forward and clearly stated one so far.
The reference to the spurred horse's groan brings to mind the parent saying to a child when punished: "This hurts me more than it hurts you," which I am absolutely certain depends on one's "point of view" (which could be interpreted as another example about how vision works, I suppose.)
It might also highlight how empathy for another's discomfort may go out the window when an individual falls into self-pity where their focus is ever inward.

The bloody spur cannot provoke him on
That sometimes anger thrusts into his hide,
Which heavily he answers with a groan,
More sharp to me than spurring to his side;

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #4278 on:** August 19, 2016, 03:04:19 PM »

Hmm Leah this may be one of those bits that could be a lesson explaining folks who see themselves as victims, or those who today we call the "me" folks - "empathy for another's discomfort may go out the window when an individual falls into self-pity" - without digressing into politics I am seeing this play out among many who are more concerned how government affects them than how it affects the greater circle who benefit.

I have to laugh because here you saw this Sonnet straight on and I had more trouble making heads or tails till I could see all sorts of new messages and explained the speaker as if he had dissected himself, as we all do when we see our body doing what our brain is rebelling against and we talk to our body as if a separate entity.

What got me going thinking this way was;
The beast that bears me, tired with my woe,
Plods dully on, to bear that weight in me,

Who was tired with woe - the beast or me
Was the me plodding on or was the beast plodding on
Was me, my body bearing the weight or was the beast bearing the weight.

Something kicked in that I did not look up but I can almost still see Sr. Rose Imelda standing with chalk in hand writing and showing us across a large blackboard something about the last one referred to before a coma is what the next phrase is describing. Well this nonsense about who was tired and who was plodding along and who was bearing weight continues till; "His rider lov'd not speed, being made from thee:"

Then I did throw up my hands - who in the world is "thee" - so then I had fun with it as if he was talking about himself in three parts - a body, mind and spirit - and the horse/the beast was simply a reference point that came in handy -

However, what did catch me and had me nodding my head were the last two lines;
For that same groan doth put this in my mind,
My grief lies onward, and my joy behind.
Immediately thought of my putting off and putting off sorting all the numbers for the IRS - groan - grief ahead - no joy in Mudville - the joy of completing a job when I received the pay was behind me.

I also see this bit in myself as I age and various body parts do not work as well - groan - grief ahead as I learn to either compensate or do without - the joy of smoothly using that body part is behind me - then I have to snap to and make sure I'm conscious that other's are handling their secret groans.

Talk about fighting a war with yourself and then that was it - to me this poem is doing just that - he is fighting a war with himself regardless if he is talking to the horse or his body - he, or at least his body and the horse are all mixed together as if both are beasts of burden and his thoughts are outside himself, observing and complaining about his 'woe is me' and how he is so depressed he cannot spur himself forward acknowledging in his self talk that forward is nothing but more grief.

Been there, done that - nothing is going to change till he does - so get on the d___ horse and ride like the furies are after you and then rein in and realize it is what it is and if life is a rose garden then thorns come with it. Or at least that is how I handle it...

PatH · « **Reply #4279 on:** August 19, 2016, 05:55:05 PM »

I agree, Leah, this sonnet is straightforward, without those delightful wordplays, and even some of the lines are plodding to match the sense:

The beast that bears me, tired with my woe
Plods dully on

He's sort of accepting separation, but grumbling and dragging his feet. And Shakespeare certainly never was stabbed in the side with a sharp-pointed spur.

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