Author Topic: Clara and Mr. Tiffany by Susan Vreeland May Bookclub Online (Read 89170 times)

pedln · « **Reply #80 on:** May 09, 2011, 10:36:44 PM »

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CLARA and MR. TIFFANY

by Susan Vreeland

"For a century, everyone assumed that the iconic Tiffany lamps were conceived and designed by that American master of stained glass, Louis Comfort Tiffany. Not so! It was a woman!" (Susan Vreeland)

Vreeland captures Gilded Age New York and its atmosphere--robber barons, sweatshops, colorful characters, ateliers from the voluminous letters belonging to the Tiffany glass studio manager, Clara Driscoll, discovered by the author
(Amazon review ).

"My last lampshade was accepted and I am
having it made now. It will be quite expensive,
but I think it will be attractive and that the
general public will admire it. The one before
this was a purple and red scheme with opal
to lighten and soften it. Mr. Tiffany thought
it was very fine and Mr. Mitchell thought it
was the ugliest thing he ever saw."
(Letter from Clara Driscoll)

Discussion Schedule:

May 1-8 ~ Chapters 1-12
May 9-15 ~ Chapters 13-24
May 16-22 ~ Chapters 25-37
May 23-31 ~ Chapters 38-47
and the Afterward

Some Topics for Consideration
May 9 - 15 ~ Chapters 13 - 24

1. Why did Edwin leave Clara? Have you ever known someone who just disappeared like that? Do you think George has been fair to Clara, witholding what he knew of past episodes such as this?

2. What part does the dragonfly play in this story? What about the butterflies?

3. What do you think of Mr. Tiffany’s statements after he heard about Edwin. “You are mine again.” and “He was a fool to let you go.”

4. What about the other men in Clara’s life. Has she let Edwin go? Do you think Mr. Belknap has feelings for Clara also? What about Bernard Booth, does he have eyes for her or is he “just a friend.?”

5. What do you think of the author's style. Do you find it easy to move from Tiffany Works to the Boarding House, from personal life to art?

Related Links:
NPR Interview with Susan Vreeland;
Morse Museum, Winter Park, FL - World's largest collection of Tiffany glass;
Tiffany Girls on Exhibition Video;
Susan Vreeland Website for Clara

Discussion Leaders: Pedln & Annie

salan · « **Reply #81 on:** May 10, 2011, 04:31:53 AM »

I don't think Edwin meant to disappear. He told her he was going out to get a surprise for her. He was a strange man; but I don't think he was cruel. It would have been cruel for him to leave her there waiting for him to return with her surprise. Will we see him again? I agree that she was better off without him.
Sally

Steph · « **Reply #82 on:** May 10, 2011, 05:57:00 AM »

I think that Edwin has some sort of mental quirk about committment. But I hope he stays gone. Clara is better off without him.

JoanP · « **Reply #83 on:** May 10, 2011, 08:30:10 AM »

Sally, I agree - Edwin was not a cruel person, and when he said he was going out to bring Clara a "surprise" - I think he meant it. Wasn't it interesting that the detective followed him to so many cities? Is he being pursued? Is he trying to protect Clara from something or someone - or is he having a mental problem of some sort? I am confident that he will turn up eventually - as we turn the pages.

Steph - do you really think that Edwin is afraid of committment and that's why he had to leave Clara in this way? Clara must really love him - to give up her job at Tiffany's for him. And now that he has disappeared, after a rather long period of searching for him, she goes back to Tiffany's - though "heartsick that she may have caused him some catastrophe."

George has changed - he's cleared out Edwin's things from the settlement house. He really doesn't think that his brother will return, does he? What did it mean that Edwin had left behind the diamond ring everyone assumes he intended for Clara? Don't you think he would have brought it with him to give to her on their "pre-nuptial" trip? Perhaps this is the "surprise" that he was going back to get for her? I'll admit that doesn't make much sense - but the question remains, why didn't he take it with him when they went off together?

Lucky Mr. T was ready to take her back as soon as he heard she hadn't married Edwin
Clara really savored those words from her boss -
"I blushed to think he thought of me as his."
I'm telling you, I think this relationship is far more than one between an employee and her boss. What is the age difference between these two? Can you believe that Clara is 37 years old? Didn't you think she was younger than that?

ANNIE · « **Reply #84 on:** May 10, 2011, 01:38:33 PM »

JoanP,
I think we read somewhere about Mr T being around forty. But if you check his birth date, 1848, he was, in 1892, 51 yrs of age. I just don't think that there is anymore between them except their shared love of art. Remember he is married and has just lost a child, a daughter. I think Clara must be so embarassed when he says, "You are mine again?" But I still think it is her love of the art of glass and designing beautiful things that he truly admires.

Salan,
I don't think Edwin's leaving so suddenly was planned. Could it have been something Mr T brought about as Clara mentions? Hmmmm! Or is he laying somewhere in the weeds or in the lake?

Pedl'n,
Where did you find that wonderful picture of Kayes Resort? That certainly was a fancy place, wasn't it? Mercy!

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #85 on:** May 10, 2011, 07:18:09 PM »

I read a few more chapters last night and am I the only one who is disgusted with Clara? She's depraved - I can't imagine a girl - a woman - even today luring a man into her bed as she did. "I'd like to work on your lower east side;" - speaking of her "tingly" feelings, etc. It seems to me that Edwin is holding back, but finally gives in and off they go to "succeed."

It's a guess, of course, but perhaps Edwin sees a trap and wants to escape? Or perhaps he is escaping his father, who had pinned his hopes on him. Clara even suggested at one point that he had left intentionally.

Yes, JOANP, I am surprised that Clara is 37 years old. She wasn't married to that rich fellow, his first husband, very long was she?

I think she is a woman of many talents; Mr. T thought so, he wanted her back immediately when he discovered she hadn't married. But he is becoming tedious isn't he? His "stock sayings." I agree, ANN, that it is her love of the art of designing beautiful things that is keeping her aat the job. She was willing to leave it to marry Edwin don't you think?

JoanP · « **Reply #86 on:** May 10, 2011, 10:05:35 PM »

Ella, I'm looking at Clara as one of the new liberated, independent women at the turn of the century. She did give notice at Tiffany's to marry Edwin, but notice that she didn't marry him. She has reservations about his ability to excite her, perhaps? He's not high spirted, like George. Do you suppose she was giving Edwin an audition to see if they were compatible, if she wanted to actually marry him?

Now that Edwin is gone, she can admit to herself there was something to that the dream in Nutley (that she was marrying George, and not Edwin) Now her heart is breaking over the loss of Edwin.

Do we know what kind of doctor, the boarder, Dr. Griggs is? Remember Clara asked him if he thought Edwin might be alive - and just lost? Dr. Grigg's tells her that if he had an illness or a disorder, he might not have the sense to nourish himself, or take care of himself. But if he left intentionally, the doctor tells her, he might have a plan, so he's probably all right.

Which do you think happened?

As long as Clara believes that he left intentionally, he might be alright - and return. If she really believes this, she can't move on and become interested in another man. Not Mr. Belknap, with his opera tickets, or the Booth brothers...or anyone else. But she can throw herself into her work and Mr. Tiffany.

pedln · « **Reply #87 on:** May 10, 2011, 11:26:27 PM »

Ladies, after rereading all your comments about Clara and Edwin, I just had another thought about why Edwin left. P. 115, the very end of chpt. 14.

George says, "The prospect of having you in the family was irresistible. And I wanted so badly for him to have you."

Yes, he goes on to say, "He would have been a broken man if you had said no."But I wonder, did George push Edwin into something he may have had second thoughts about?

And now Clara has other things to contend with. How did she phrase it? Double duty? Keeping the accounts is part of the territory for someone in charge, but it seems like that would be a job unto itself. I'm having trouble understanding all the intricacies, and don't understand the "contract" method at all. But that Mr. Mitchell. He's a pain, isn't he.

Steph · « **Reply #88 on:** May 11, 2011, 06:13:34 AM »

The explanation for the discovery of the lamp shades is really wonderful. Did it happen that way?? or is that fiction.. Clara is truly talented if she really did proceed on the premise in the book..
I think that Clara has a secret yearning for Mr. T's life.. She really is suited to George.. Shame he is interested in men not women. Her learning the bike is hysterical.. Brave lady indeed.

pedln · « **Reply #89 on:** May 11, 2011, 11:16:26 AM »

Steph, I wonder if any of that description was in her letters. I've only read a few letters, but she does write about her work. Here is a link to a picture from Susan Vreelands website. It does make it easier to understand the process, doesn't it, if we can see the picture. (see chpt. 18)

I guess you could say this idea came about from the baptismal font dome (sent to the exhibition) and meeting Alistair and his butterfly collection.

Butterfly Lamp

JoanP · « **Reply #90 on:** May 11, 2011, 05:24:01 PM »

Pedln, thank you so much for the butterfly lamp. It is just what I pictured...only more. The blues~ the yellows!

I stumbled over this site - which includes a photograph of Clara with the girls in the workshop...can you spot her? Steph, do you remember seeing this? I was pleased - and somewhat surprised to see Clara getting recognition for her designs - The Morse Museum, Winter Park, FL - with a photo of Clara in the workroom

Here's a close up from the same group photo. I hesitate to put up this picture of Clara because maybe she doesn't match the fictional Clara you have been picturing in your mind. Let' me know if it bothers you - I'll take it down...How about I don't identify her?
One of these women is "your" Clara. Photo was taken in 1904.

pedln · « **Reply #91 on:** May 11, 2011, 06:06:35 PM »

JoanP, thank y ou for the picture of "the girls" and the link to the lighting history. I think I know which one is Clara. And some of them look very young. But that is no doubt because while Mr. T had his policy of no marrieds, Clara had to have a policy of hiring only young girls. Age eighteen was too old for a hire because as soon as she was trained, she'd want to leave to get married. Isn't it amazing what some of these fourteen and fifteen year-olds could do. For $6.50 a week.

Here's a link to one of the early dragonfly lamps, this one an oil lamp. (Chpt. 21)

Oil Dragonfly Lamp

JoanP · « **Reply #92 on:** May 11, 2011, 07:15:36 PM »

I guess that was big money for these girls back then, wasn't it? It's great to think of them, making good money and taking pride in their work. Not at all like the sweat shops so many young girls worked in at the time.

Pedln, I'm still admiring the butterfly lamp - This was Clara's "first original motif." From this came a whole line, a new market for Tiffany's. Mr. T. called the lamps "an entirely new design for those wh can't afford a window."

The idea for the shade came from that baptismal font dome in the Chapel that Tiffany's displayed at the Chicago Fair in 1893. I was surprised to learn that the whole chapel and everything in it was disassembled and moved to the Morse Museum in Winter Park! Steph, I'll bet you saw this too! I think we all need to just pile into the car and head to Florida! All this stuff seems to be under one roof!

Here's the dome of the baptismal font - its design inspired the shades which would make Tiffany lamps a household name...

ANNIE · « **Reply #93 on:** May 11, 2011, 07:44:07 PM »

I didn't work too hard at understanding the accounting debacle. At least it seemed that way to me. Sounds like something a union would require. Mr Mitchell is a royal pain. He should have had the job of doing the accounting. Clara is not a mathematician. But at least she is given some help from Bernard Boothe.

The story of the bicycle learning is truly enjoyable. Most of us probably learned to ride a bike when we in grade school and here's Clara, at age 37, buying her own and letting Bernard help her steady herself along Irving place. She is a gutsy lady and evidently her friend from work is also. Trucks her bicycle on the train to join Clara on her rides. Strong Russian lady there! They do have such a delightful time bicycling around Central Park. I love the way Bernard tells Clara how to get over railroad tracks. My btrrother and I had to go over railroad tracks on our way to the state fair grounds where we could ride all over the different roads that were not being used when the fair was going on. We tried angling our tires at high speed and then doing the direct aim(Bernard's suggestion) arguing which was the easiest and the least hard on the bike and the driver.
JoanP,
Is the Grand Army Plaza at 59th St where we(the Books and Literature, a former site on SN) all met for the first time in NYC in 1998?

ANNIE · « **Reply #94 on:** May 11, 2011, 09:01:54 PM »

Well, wrong again, am I! I looked up the Grand Army Plaza and found descriptions of two, one in NYC proper and the other in Prospect Park in Brooklyn. Seems to me that Pedl'n toured that park while visiting her daughter?? Is that right, Pedl'n?

MaryH · « **Reply #95 on:** May 11, 2011, 11:03:22 PM »

I’m in the middle of chapter 20, so I think I’m finally caught up enough to pop in. This is the first book I’ve read on my Kindle app for Macbook and it’s great. I can sit anywhere at home and simultaneously read the book, make notes in word processing software, AND research links on the internet - all from the same device!

The book is an enjoyable look into the past and the art of stained glass. But I wonder if Clara’s outlook, as interpreted by the author, is too modern even for a New Woman.

For example, the topic of homosexuality appears several times. (I hope it's not offensive to anyone to discuss this.)
*Miss Merry Owens tells Clara that a couple of mollies live at the boarding house.
*George points out to Clara that, unlike himself, Edwin is not a nellie.
*Clara says she wishes it were George who was proposing marriage. In which case she’d be willing to be the steady breadwinner, and George could continue to carry on with Hank and Dudley.

None of these comments appear to make Clara uncomfortable. (Not that I am passing judgment myself.) I’m just surprised that it’s such a non-issue for Clara. I noticed that the author gave a bibliography for her research. It included a section of references titled “Homosexuality in the Arts”. So it looks like she did her research. Maybe these New Women were way more modern than I could have imagined!

Steph · « **Reply #96 on:** May 12, 2011, 06:11:58 AM »

Yes, the Baptismal font and the room is so gorgeous.. My favorite place in the whole museum.. I have a fellow widow who has not seen the place and I have promised to take her some weekend day soon..She has been reading about it.

Laura · « **Reply #97 on:** May 12, 2011, 09:18:08 AM »

I think something happened to Edwin that made him disappear. I don’t think he would have just left Clara like that. An illness of some sort is what I am thinking. It will be interesting to see if he comes back.

As for the bookkeeping/accounting that Clara now has to do, I do feel badly for her. It is not her strength and is a pain, especially without modern conveniences like bar coding, computers, and spreadsheet programs. It is not necessary to understand exactly what she is doing (I do since I am a cost accountant and this type of time and job tracking is done everyday at companies around the world). Just know that it is time consuming, takes away from her creative time, and causes friction between her and the business department.

JoanP · « **Reply #98 on:** May 12, 2011, 11:43:52 AM »

But I can understand why Clara feels that she is the only one who understands how to handle the accounting fairly. To me, this shows that she has a heart - and really cares about the girls. Otherwise she would just concentrate on her own projects.

It's a good thing she has Bernard to help her with it - don't see how she'd manage it otherwise. We're seeing so many of the boundaries between her home and her work life dissolve, aren't we? I like the way Susan Vreeland goes back and forth from the rooming house to the shop.

Not sure that Clara had feelings for Bernard - EXCEPT when she learned that he now has a fiancee - "A jolt went up her spine." She feels "disoriented." How dare he keep that a secret from her?
I wonder about that too. Does he fear telling her - or doesn't he think it's important enough to tell her? Or is it even true?

Now his brother Alistair is a totally different story. He "murders" the butterflies to study them. She was repulsed when he popped the eyes of one of them...when he "plunged a pin into the tiny head."

But she does admire their beauty - even goes with Alistair to get more of them for study.
Mr. Tiffany's words of advice are important here, I think. "Take a good look," he said, "but don't copy nature. Suggest it, stylize it, simplify it - it's artifice, after all."

Clara responds to his approval of her idea - "I felt hot with the knowledge that this was a moment of great importance." "Two artists connected by an idea." I'm reminded of the time she felt attracted to Edwin - when he was playing the piano, she realized that he was "creative" - an "artist"... At that moment she became attracted to him.

MaryH, I know what you mean about Clara's portrayal - a bit too modern, even for a New Woman. If the portrayal is accurate, however, I've learned a lot about the women of this period.

pedln · « **Reply #99 on:** May 12, 2011, 03:03:12 PM »

Ha ha Annie, I was so surprised to see that there was a Grand Army Plaza in Manhatten. The only one I knew of is in Brooklyn. But how great that Clara now has two wheels – to go further and faster. So much exploring for her to do.

Quote

*Clara says she wishes it were George who was proposing marriage. In which case she’d be willing to be the steady breadwinner, and George could continue to carry on with Hank and Dudley.

That is interesting, MaryH. I missed that comment. The other doesn’t surprise me too much. Clara is definitely her own woman. Very independent and sure of herself.

Steph, I was going to ask you what you liked best in the museum. Lucky you to be not so far from it that you can’t go again. I’m sure we would like to join you and your friend.

Laura, we appreciate your input about the accounting. It really sounds so complicated, especially with Clara having to run around to all the different departments during the last two hours of Thursday afternoon, and then having to take it all home to organize it on her own time. I’m sure she wasn’t paid for that. (But most of us probably did not get paid for all the hours we worked.) It would all be a lot easier, though, if Mr. mitchell were a bit more pleasant.

Ah yes, JoanP, the fiancee. So she knows, but he doesn’t know she knows. Clara’s ship does not sail smoothe.

I’ve been out most of the day, and have found my desktop to be behaving badly. Thank goodness for laptops, but it’s hard to see clearly, and worse to type. I have to unplug the big pc and the router that connects the little pc. Back when I can.

Steph · « **Reply #100 on:** May 13, 2011, 06:03:27 AM »

Hard to have a first choice in the museum. The chapel is overwhelming.. You feel deeply spiritual as you enter it. But There is some art glass( small) that is just incredible..so I dont think I have one best choice.
Yes, I find Clara advanced in her treatment of sexual issues, but it seems to stem from a really bad first marriage.She is determined not to make the same mistake again.

ANNIE · « **Reply #101 on:** May 13, 2011, 09:21:26 AM »

MaryH
I have,also, been thinking about Clara's light treatment of the gay issue at the boarding house. I think she might be more of a bohemian than we expected. She certainly chose a delightful place to live. They all have their different talents in Ms Merry's place and that really sort of jazzes up the reading.

Steph, when I read that one could walk through the chapel at the Columbian Exhibit, I wondered if its set up that way in the Morse. What a treat! Can't wait to get back down there to see it. Shall we all go??

Pedl'n
I truly love the park in Brooklyn. Well, I love the pictures of it that I can get up on my laptop. That's another place we must visit next time in NYC.

LauraGlad we have someone here who understands all the accounting issues.
and
JoanP
That fountain is just stunning. Thanks for the photo.

pedln · « **Reply #102 on:** May 13, 2011, 12:26:58 PM »

Yes, let’s all go to the Morse Museum to see all these Tiffany and Driscoll wonders.

Quote

Mr. Tiffany's words of advice are important here, I think. "Take a good look," he said, "but don't copy nature. Suggest it, stylize it, simplify it - it's artifice, after all."

I’m glad you found the statement, JoanP. I’d been trying to get back to it because it surprised me when I first read it. It seemed the opposite of what I’d expect Mr. Tiffany to say. He’s such a perfectionist I never would have expected him to say “simplify it.”

East 72nd and Madison Avenue. Four large lots. It dwarfed mansions on 5th Avenue. Chapter 19 describes the Tiffany Mansion where the Christmas Tiffany Ball was held. Clara invited George as her guest. I’ve been trying to find a picture of it, but so far no luck. The two links below show a building at the intersection of Madison and E 72nd, but it is The Rhinelander Mansion, completed in 1898, and is now the flagship store for Ralph Lauren. But it does show the style of architecture of the period. Mr. York called Mr. Tiffany’s home Romanesque Revival. Lots of opulence in both homes.

Madison at 72nd Street

A Mansion at Christmas -- scroll down

JoanP · « **Reply #103 on:** May 13, 2011, 12:45:44 PM »

Pedln, I think you are very close - the mansion at Madison and 72 in the above link is the Rhinelander Mansion, which is said to be located across the street from Louis Tiffany's place - There's some good stuff in this link - This mansion had 57 rooms! Imagine Clara's reaction when she arrived for the soiree at this place! She and George were given the special tour too!

Louis Comfort Tiffany's "townhouse" on Madison

pedln · « **Reply #104 on:** May 13, 2011, 01:04:22 PM »

Wow, JoanP, how did you find that? A great picture, and it certainly would dwarf the other homes. 57 rooms there, and then they had a "summer?" home Briars, on Long Island. I see in your link that they demolished the home in 1936. I'm glad the Rhinelander Mansion is still standing, so we still have one building of the neighborhood left.

Clara also went to Tiffany's home when he was sick, to give him a progress report.

Quote

I reported that the last of the three mosaic panels depickrting scenes from Homer that we had been working on for Princeton was more than half completed. Since the three panels together were eighty feet wide, and we were that far along, he was pleased.

I’m not sure I understand the term “mosaics” here. Do these mosaics let in light, is stained glass also used. This is how they have been described. Note that the designer is named.

Quote

A beautiful mosaic with depictions of scenes from Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey dominates the back wall of the stage. Homer himself is pictured in the center panel, framed by Helen, Paris, and Mentor from the Iliad on the right, and Telemachus, Penelope, Odysseus, and Achilles from the Odyssey on the left. The Greeks prepare for war on the far left, while Trojan warriors with chariot and horses await the call to battle on the far right. These panels were designed by J.A. Holzer and made of tiles from Tiffany Glass and Decorating Company.

I had thought of asking my granddaughter to run over to Alexander Hall and take pictures, but figured she’d probably be in the middle of finals or read week, so here is a link that is probably better.

Homer Mosaic

Quote

Jacob Adolphus Holzer (1858 — 1938) was a Swiss-born designer, muralist, mosaicist,[1] interior designer, and sculptor who was associated with both John La Farge and Augustus Saint-Gaudens before he left to direct the mosaic workshops of Louis Comfort Tiffany,[2] where he was preceded by his friend from La Farge's studio, the German immigrant Joseph Lauber (1855—1948). Holzer worked with Tiffany until 1898.

Holzer designed the sculptural electrified lantern that became famous at the World's Columbian Exposition, Chicago 1893, one of two electrified lanterns that have been called the "ancestors" of all later Tiffany lamps.

It appears that he received recognition early on.

ANNIE · « **Reply #105 on:** May 13, 2011, 08:12:54 PM »

Here's the Marquette Building in Chicago in which Holzer and Tiffany did the mozaics. Story of that is down aways on the page with pictures of the mosaics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquette_Building_(Chicago)

JoanP · « **Reply #106 on:** May 14, 2011, 09:24:55 AM »

Thank you - Thank you- Thank you for all of the links and pictures. Those mosaics are breathtaking. I never knew of Tiffany mosaics as in the Homer, but cutting tiny mosaic tiles is not much different than larger pieces of class for the window panels - or the lamps. Isn't this wonderful, reading the book with all of these photos available on the Internet! So much more rewarding to actually see what Susan Vreeland is describing.

Louis (Loo-ey) Tiffany is a genius - even if he doesn't give credit as he should. I think he's not aware of where his ideas come from - whether from nature, from art - or even from the people he works with. Once he gets an idea, absolutely nothing can stand in his way.

Do you get the feeling that the business staff - Mr. Mitchell - is working for Charles Tiffany, who must be footing the bill for his son's creativity? Mr. Mitchell is working hard to keep costs down. I love the dialog between Clara and himself. I can see truth in what he is saying - it would be much more economical to enamel the lamp bases rather than the setting the mosaic tiles. Clara agrees with him - but first must do eight more and after that she knows she'll be working on another design.

The butterfly lamp opened a whole new realm of possibility. Mr. Tiffany now regards her as a "designer" -

When she designed her "dragonfly" lamp, Mr. Mitchell sends in his whole staff to vote on its approval in Mr. Tiffany's absence - his assistant business manager and the treasurer - (can his name really be "Mr. Ebonezer Scrouge"? I hardly think so - is this Clara's dry humor, quoted from one of her letters - or Susan Vreeland's fiction?) - and thank goodness, brings in Mr. Belknap, the artistic director who we know is in Clara's corner. Belknap says it's the most lamp in the building. When Tiffany arrives late, his word rules and the lamp is approved. Note the ominous words from Mr. Mitchell, calling her a dangerous influence. I'll bet this gets reported to Papa Tiffany this very day!

JoanP · « **Reply #107 on:** May 14, 2011, 09:43:04 AM »

Just found a photo of the base of the fish lamp - remember at the party at the Tiffany Mansion in December, 1899 - (Clara's 37th birthday) when the foursome went up with Mr. T. to his studio. He gave Clara a handful of Chinese mother of pearl pieces to create something. She decides to make the fish lamp with the sea mosaic base. He told her outright that she didn't have to keep costs down.

I found this photo of the mosaic tile base - but can't seem to locate the fish top. Maybe it is within one of the links already posted? I'd love to see it, but this base is glorious, isn't it? If Mr. Mitchell had his way, the base would have been enamelled instead...
She used the mother of pearl pieces in this base. Imagine - we are reding about the party, the pieces Mr. T. gives to Clara - and now we can sit and stare at the base she created with them! It's amazing, isn't it?

Steph · « **Reply #108 on:** May 14, 2011, 11:01:38 AM »

Oh the Mosaics are truly lovely.. There are some in the museum, but I never looked at them carefully. A note that the next time I go over, will pay more attention. I adore the stained glass and spend more time on them. Yes, you can walk around in the chapel..

ANNIE · « **Reply #109 on:** May 14, 2011, 11:02:59 AM »

Well, I just spent an hour perusing all the Tiffany windows in Virginia. Phenomenal! Take a look at this site:

http://www.vmfa.state.va.us/Microsites/Tiffany_Driving_Tour/Tiffany_Driving_Tour_Bibliography.aspx

One can look forever! The beauty of this art bowls me over! You can click on one after another! Unbelieveable!
But I digress! Back to searching for the fish lamp!

ANNIE · « **Reply #110 on:** May 14, 2011, 11:08:21 AM »

Here's one:
http://www.tiffany-lamps.de/TIFFANY_LAMP_CONES/16IN_FISH_1/AA.html

salan · « **Reply #111 on:** May 14, 2011, 11:19:10 AM »

Would you call the genre of this book "historical fiction"? The problem I have with this genre is that I don't know what is real and what is elaboration. I am enjoying this book, but am wondering how much fiction I am taking for fact. Does anyone else feel this way?

My book is a library book that has to be turned in on the 16th. Evidently someone else is waiting, so i can't renew it. I am going to finish it this week-end and try to take notes so that I don't get too far ahead in our discussions.
Sally

ANNIE · « **Reply #112 on:** May 14, 2011, 11:24:25 AM »

Salan,
I just read a short bio about our author. She is much admired for her excellence in writing historical fiction. Here's the page that I found that on and I thought you might enjoy reading about her.

http://www.litlovers.com/reading-guides/13-fiction/8098-clara-and-mr-tiffany-vreeland

I, for one, think that George and Edwin Waldo are fictional.

ANNIE · « **Reply #113 on:** May 14, 2011, 12:21:41 PM »

Here is a whole page of Tiffany's Fish Lamps!

http://www.tiffany-lamps.de/TIFFANY_LAMP_CONES/16IN_FISH/AA.html

salan · « **Reply #114 on:** May 14, 2011, 07:16:43 PM »

Here are a couple of quotes that I found interesting. Chap. 15--"Nature always heals. It's proven that the light vibrations of color have a subjective power & affect the mind and soul. Yellow lifts up, orange rouses, green comforts."

and another in chapter l7, "A year passes like a revolving wheel & when the spokes of January comes around again, it finds itself in a different place. And so with pain. It does not leave us where it found us."

Thanks to those posting sites where we can look at some of Tiffany's works. I appreciate your time and effort; and am enjoying the sites.
Sally

pedln · « **Reply #115 on:** May 15, 2011, 12:16:41 AM »

It’s true, isn’t it, Sally, there is something about green that soothes. And yellow – the other day I wore a yellow sweater (a color I rarely use) trimmed with white and a friend told me I looked like a daffodil. I don’t know about that, but the yellow daffodils just coming into bloom were a welcome site during our still cold spring.

It is hard to know what’s fiction and what’s true. I think most of it is true. Clara was married to Francis, but we probably don’t know for sure about the other men in her life. I don’t see Vreeland deviating tooo much from the facts. though. I think she made this fiction so as not to be totally tied to details. She’s free to enhance or veer off the path a bit. The boarding house? The Waldo Brothers? I don’t know, Annie, I tried a while back to search for George Waldo. There were several, but none were our George. Hank? Mr. Belknap?

JoanP and Annie, you kept me looking for fish lamps most of the afternoon. No luck on finding one to go with the beautiful Deep Sea base.

Here’s a Tiffany Fish Lamp, but not near as pretty as the seahorse base by Clara and Alice and Agnes, that Joan has displayed. However, you will be astounded at the price it brought at a 2002 auction.

Tiffany Fish Lamp

Steph · « **Reply #116 on:** May 15, 2011, 09:24:40 AM »

Yes, as I read, I too wonder about what is real and what is not. I assume that the people who worked in executive positions at Tiffany could be real.. And that the people in the boarding house are not.. They are delights, but all so different and so I think are not real, but a made up support group.

ANNIE · « **Reply #117 on:** May 15, 2011, 11:28:14 AM »

Pedl'n,
Here's a whole string of Tiffany's fish lamps.
http://www.tiffany-lamps.de/TIFFANY_LAMP_CONES/16IN_FISH/DD.html

And I think Vreeland had the letters that were located by those two professors. Didn't they produce a book about them or an exhibit of some kind?? Here we go:

"All records for Tiffany Studios were lost after it closed in the early 1930s. It was only through the combined efforts of Martin Eidelberg (professor emeritus of art history at Rutgers University), as well as Nina Gray, an independent scholar and former curator at the New-York Historical Society, and Margaret K. Hofer (curator of decorative arts, New-York Historical Society), that Clara Driscoll's involvement in designing Tiffany lamps was discovered.
While doing research for a book on Tiffany at the Queens Historical Society, Nina Gray found the historically valuable letters written by Driscoll to her mother and sisters during the time she was employed at Tiffany.[3][2] The New York Times quoted the curator, Nina Gray as saying: "They brought out two books and several boxes, all letters, and I think the first thing I read was about how she had designed a daffodil lamp. And I started squealing. At the top it said something like ‘Noon at Tiffany’s,’ so it was during her lunch hour. What do you do with something like that?” Martin Eidelberg had seen the correspondence independently and after comparing notes their conclusion was beyond doubt. It was Clara Driscoll and the "Tiffany Girls" who had created many of the Tiffany lamps originally attributed to Louis Comfort Tiffany and his staff of male designers."Wikipedia

pedln · « **Reply #118 on:** May 15, 2011, 12:21:18 PM »

That is a neat site, Annie. I was puzzling over whether these were lamps made by Driscoll/Tiffany or if they were new or what. But this is what it says on the website --

Quote

Tiffany Lamps: Designs of Tiffany-Studios New York (1880-1930)
We keep the tradition of leaded glass lamp making alive.

-- and apparently this German firm will make you a lamp according to your specifications, based on these designs, and using the leaded glass lamp tradition of the earlier studios. Wow.

What I really like about this site is that you can increase the size of the photos and see each little piece. Those mosaics are something, aren't they. And, if you really want to examine, they have 240 photos to show how a Tiffany Lamp is made -- try this -- Making a lamp

WOW!! You can almost picture Clara and Alice and the girls and see the details they put up with every working day.

We've reached the half-way mark of the book, ready to delve into the next section. Are there any particular issues or themes or what-have-you that have especially caught your attention? One, for example, right now deals with what's real, what's not. Another might be Clara's personality. She's not perfect, and I think that's really brought out in this third section. What all do you think?

JoanP · « **Reply #119 on:** May 15, 2011, 01:14:39 PM »

Writing historical fiction is not as easy as it seems. The fiction must not rewrite history and alter the facts. It does make the history come alive.
Steph, I'll agree with you - the boarding house, given a traceable address where Clara Driscoll actually lived, is probably real, but the boarders are probably S. Vreeland's characters, quite like the bohemian artists who lived in the village at this time. But what of the Waldo brothers? Do you agree with Annie? Do you think George was simply a character dreamed up by S. Vreeland? Technically he was not a boarder. He was an artist. In the story, he worked on Frederick Vanderbilt's mansion - designing the red and gold bedroom. This really did exist.

Like Pedln, I did a search for George Waldo - visited sites describing the mansion and the bedroom. This one was of interest - it contains photographs of the sites mentioned in Vreeland's book - (if these photos have already been posted, I'm sorry I missed it.)

New York New York

Here's Frederick's bedroom from this site - and the caption beneath it -

"Bedroom of Frederick Vanderbilt, Vanderbilt Mansion, Hyde Park, NY. Interior design by Georges Glaenzer and George Waldo, a friend of Clara Driscoll and a character in the novel. National Park Service photo"

What do you think? Did you notice this is from Susan Vreeland's site? - and it is the ONLY mention of George Waldo, identifying him as "a character in the novel." I wish we had Susan Vreeland here to answer this question - especially on George Waldo?

News:

Author Topic: Clara and Mr. Tiffany by Susan Vreeland May Bookclub Online (Read 89170 times)