Author Topic: Presidents Club, The by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy~September Book Club Online (Read 52903 times)

bellamarie · « **Reply #160 on:** September 09, 2012, 06:45:18 PM »

The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.

SEPTEMBER BOOK CLUB ONLINE
PLEASE POST BELOW IF YOU PLAN TO JOIN US.

As we head into another overheated and polarizing presidential campaign, at least it's a comfort knowing that former presidents have learned to mostly put aside partisan politics and work together. Thanks to the brilliant investigative work of Time magazine's Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy, The Presidents Club uncovers a powerful secret fraternity, in which ex-leaders stay in the game by counseling inexperienced successors. - USA Today

Realizing that membership in the Presidents Club bestows a singular perspective can help explain certain minor mysteries of our political life. How, for example, could Clinton ever forgive George H.W. Bush, who in the 1992 campaign all but charged him with being a traitor, if not a Soviet stooge, for visiting Russia as a college student and protesting the Vietnam War “from foreign soil”? Why has Obama, whose presidential quest embodied a repudiation of everything George W. Bush stood for, heard scarcely a grumble about his policies from his once-belligerent predecessor? The answer lies in what Kennedy said to Arthur Schlesinger when asked to rank the presidents: “Only the president himself can know what his real pressures and his real alternatives are.” It’s a sentiment that virtually every president voices at one point or another in this book. - Washington Post

DISCUSSION SCHEDULE:

Chapters 1-9 9/1 through 9/8
Chapters 10-14 9/9 through 9/15
Chapters 15-19 9/16 through 9/22
Chapters 20-26 9/23 through 9/30

Related Links: Secrets of the Presidents Club - Video;
Book TV with Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy;

Discussion Leaders: Ella and Harold

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(from Bellamarie)
What a nice link you provided for us Kathleen. Thank you!

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #161 on:** September 10, 2012, 07:43:31 AM »

Yes, I agree, JEAN AND BELLEMARIE, Nixon was a sad character, complex, brilliant, all that you have said. And, as you can see by the chapters in this book, he dominated national politics for many years.

Thank you KATHLEEN for that update on the brownstone, the clubhouse, which is certainly no dump now since being remodeled. It looks lovely and I'm sure is being used. Let's see - there is Clinton, Carter, the two Bushes, who am I leaving out. Would their children and grandchildren be elegible to stay there do you think?

Being curious I have looked up a couple of places mentioned in the book ---- (pg.211)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove

They are adamant about women not being members..

Yesterday I saw a program on Book TV, a panel discussion with Susan Ford, daughter, Truman's grandson, and Hoover's great grandaughter. They told humorous, touching stories about their relatives. The Little White House in Key West was mentioned by the grandson and was also mentioned in our book. Here it is:

http://www.trumanlittlewhitehouse.com/

Was it Nancy Reagan pushing Ronnie do you think or was Reagan so ambitious that only nine days after his election as governor he met with top advisors to discuss a possible presidential bid? (p.206)

It doesn't seem in character for the charismatic Ronald Reagan that I saw.

What did all of you think of Reagan?

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #162 on:** September 10, 2012, 11:02:56 AM »

Ella, but what is the Brownstone mansion being used for? Certainly not by the intended ex President's club members. As I understand it's present status, it is open to the public being managed by the National Park Service. I suppose that like my my volunteer Docent work at the San Antonio Mission's National Park they receive a stream of tourist type visitor with docents giving tours during during which they mention its intended role as a Washington house for ex Presidents and Nixon's role in making the purchase, but principally they tell more detail on the house's history in the 19th century, and the early families that lived there. If I was still going to DC like I was in the 90's, I would like to visit it. Perhaps some of you have visited it?

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #163 on:** September 10, 2012, 12:07:29 PM »

Before we get to Regan let us cover Nixon whose administration has left a lots of issues for us to talk about. Our authors began their account of the Nixon administration by noting that the transition from Johnson to Nixon could have been as frosty as the Truman - Eisenhower exchange in 1952. But the controversy didn’t happen. Immediately after the election there were several white house meeting on the transition after which Nixon appeared like he was staging a coup of a sort or at least demanding a co-Presidency during the last month of the Johnson term. This was not LBJ’s way of being President causing his strong declaration that until Jan 20 1973 , all decision would be by him or his appropriate cabinet officers.

I think that at this point Johnsons was obviously at and end and he knew it. To his credit he did not push for a controversial transition.

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #164 on:** September 10, 2012, 12:16:10 PM »

The Nixon Administration has left us a lot to talk about. EVERYONE NOW PLEASE add your input on both the administration and you remembrance of it and how it has been covered by the authors of our book.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #165 on:** September 10, 2012, 04:51:47 PM »

Egos, egos, egos, backstabbing scallywags! None of them, not one person in this chapter, is forthright! I knew that Kissinger was working against the peace talks, but having all this info in a short summary is just nauseating. They act like 15 yr old boys. " i can lie until i get caught." the beginning steps leading to Watergate. This is an example of why i said i would not like to have LBJ as a "friend." How does anyone deal with people who are just giving you BS all the time? You couldn't believe anything any of them said to you. Sounds very much like today's campaign. But i'm enough of an historian to know that none of it is new. It's just discouraging.

I liked HHHumphrey at the time and after reading this, i still do, but i'm still not sure how strong a president he would have been. Of course, the country would not have had to go through the constitutional crises that was brought about by Watergate. A scary event but one that did prove to us that our democracy and constitution can stand up to severe crises, which is nice to know.

Jean

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #166 on:** September 12, 2012, 09:33:21 AM »

Hello, JEAN, you are discouraged aren't you? But it's the only government we have and somehow it works, and every year (especially in an election year) we wonder if it will continue! These politicians, Congressmen, are egotistical, competitive to the point that either they or their campaign mnagers will come close to slander or libel against their opponent. I don't listen to many of the commentators who want/need any little thing to blow up and sound scandalous.

What stations do the rest of you listen to, where do you get your news?

Walter Reed hospital ws mentioned (251) and I remember that it closed. Here's an interesting site about it:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/07/27/7182486-walter-reed-healing-place-for-warriors-set-to-close?lite

HAROLD, give us your opinion of the Nixon years???

Wasn't it interesting about David and Julie getting marriedd!, bringing together two political families - and we haven't heard from that young couple yet. I wouldn't blame them if they hid out in the mountains somewhere never to be seen again.

"They (family members) know what it means to live in the bell jar; to have family vacations
turned into photo opss to wonder at the sudden surfeit of friends and absence of intimacy."

So it seems the public is suspicious, the president's family is suspicious of the public, too bad.

WHERE IS EVERYONE, IT IS EMPTY IN HERE!!!! COME BACK!!!

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #167 on:** September 12, 2012, 09:39:46 AM »

NIXON - pg. 260 sums him up very well:

"He was not above the law-he was the law, as he famously explained: if a president does something, that means it's not illegal." Expecially in time of war, the president's powers, in his view, were virtually unlimited.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #168 on:** September 12, 2012, 09:53:51 AM »

NIXON - Pg. 265 - A BROODING MAN , A LONER. He knew himself to be a loner, why would such a man pursue the limelight all his life?

mabel1015j · « **Reply #169 on:** September 12, 2012, 12:08:54 PM »

I didn't mean to sound so negative, but just reading those chapters, as i said, putting it all together in a short passage, made it seem so much worse than when we lived thru it or when i've read about it before. i believe our democracy is the best form of government - Churchill said something about it being ineffecient, but better than all the other forms, and something about Americans trying everything else, but coming up with the right answer at the end.

The Nixon years had some positives, finally ending the VN war and opening diplomatic relationships w/ China. Nixon may have been the only person of the era who could do that w/out being accused of being soft on communism. Given the numbers of their population and their power in the geographic area, it was ludicrous not to have contact w/ them.

One of the most important happenings for the country of the period of the 60s and 70s is the beginning of the power of the conservatives and the Republican Party move to the right. I think Reagan is rather a fascinating character: his switch of parties, his charm, his leadership qualities, whether he was really leading or not, the adoration his fans still have for him and whether the present right really knows him, or just the myth of him. I must read an objective book about him

Julie and David have been in the spotlight lately with a new book about Ike. They've written several books and go on the book tour each time. They are sometimes on panels on the History Channel. They appear to be very happy w/ each other and yes, it is interesting that given the relationship of the father and grandfather that they got married. But they were thrown together a lot as young people. Maybe they are the best product of the President's Club.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #170 on:** September 12, 2012, 12:36:05 PM »

THANKS, JEAN, for your comments - I particularly liked this one:

"Maybe they are the best product of the President's Club."

Certainly there is something positive about this group of presidents, hahaha YOu did mention two of Nixon's achievements.

In reading TIME this week,I'll quote an editorial by Fareed Zakaria re: the coming election

""The winning party will be the one that is more optimistic about America - even among a struggling economy."

His article goes on to talk about confident leaders and optimism and states that the ones who had it were Theodore Roosevelet, Franklin D. Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush.

NIXON AND FORD neither one is mentioned, but our chapter is: - Mercy at all costs. True statement.

Sunny Ford, moody Nixon. Born in the same year (the year that produced the zipper, thank goodness for whoever?)

So what happened?

PatH · « **Reply #171 on:** September 12, 2012, 12:42:41 PM »

I got behind on the reading, partly because I was traveling, but also because I found reading the section on Vietnam quite painful. It brought back all the feeling of frustration and horror of that time. It seemed so obvious that what we were doing was wrong; we couldn’t win, we were getting more and more brutal, destroying the whole countryside for nothing. But there seemed to be no way to get our country to stop, cut the losses, and get out.

I feel sorry for LBJ. He was stuck too. He felt guilty about the war, and not strong enough for it. He was ill-served by his advisors. Ike was good, but ended up urging policies he would not have taken the responsibility for himself. Most of the others had axes to grind. I can’t find it now, but someone said you can’t trust military men because they want to be heroes, and it’s hard to be a hero without a fight.

I know this is backtracking, but I wanted to say it.

PatH · « **Reply #172 on:** September 12, 2012, 12:50:13 PM »

Oddly enough, in the end my frustration with Vietnam led to strengthening my patriotism. Bob and I could have made a chance to move to another country. We thought about this very carefully, and it made us realize just how much we loved our country, how much it is in our bones. So I am loyal and patriotic not just as a knee-jerk reaction, but because I have thought about it seriously and know that is what I am.

However, there are times when I am less proud of my country's actions than other times.

PatH · « **Reply #173 on:** September 12, 2012, 12:59:39 PM »

Quote from: Ella Gibbons on September 12, 2012, 12:36:05 PM

Sunny Ford, moody Nixon. Born in the same year (the year that produced the zipper, thank goodness for whoever?)

I can't let that one slide by without comment, because my father once wrote an article about it.

The zipper was invented in the 1890s by Whitcomb Judson, and patented in 1893. His drawing is crude compared to modern zippers, and looks less reliable.

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #174 on:** September 12, 2012, 05:21:04 PM »

Regarding today’s posts by Ella, Jean and Pat, I will offer the following comments. Our national federal union despite its many weaknesses, particularly when it comes to the extent of defining Presidential powers does somehow manage to bungle through in the end. This appears to be what happened August 9, 1974 when President Richard Nixon resigned in favor of the newly confirmed Vice President, Gerald Ford. After his close loss in the 1960 election Nixon continued in politics determined for another chance at the presidency. Barely escaping from a loss in a California election for Governor, he won the Republican nomination in 1968 coming back to win the election from a Democrat Party nominee weakened by the party’s handling of the Viet Nam War and other social issues at home. Nixon came back as President determined to be a great president.

During his first term as President a truce in Viet Nam involving the withdrawal of U.S. from the country, and its abandonment to the Communists was achieved, and the social issues largely resolved themselves enabling Nixon to win a second term in 1972. Early in his 2nd term Nixon’s suspicion of others supposed enemies actual or imagined led him to take measures beyond the power granted the President by the constitution. This included the use of the FBI to investigate other individals both Federal office holders and civilians. More importantly he hired others to commit particular criminal acts such as burglarizing the office of a private company, an operation that failed with the arrest and indictment of the Individuals involve.

This was just too much. The Constitutional Impeachment process began with the approval by the House of representatives of a bill of impeachment, the formal indictment of the President for trial by the Senate. This quickly led to Nixon’s resignation on September 9. 1974. We will continue our discussion of this matter through the remainder of the week including the events that immediately followed under the former Vice President, the new President Gerald Ford

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #175 on:** September 12, 2012, 05:57:04 PM »

Ella will it be OK with you if I take an extra day to complete this Week 2 material. This will Keep the discussion of the Ford administration open through Saturday???. You can the begin a full 7 days for your week 3 material beginning Sunday with Jimmy Carter and the 1976 election.

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #176 on:** September 12, 2012, 06:15:01 PM »

Pat Your feelings about LBJ expressed above sort of reflects my own. Being a Native Texan I had come to admire him for his service in the senate, particularly his ability to maintain control. Also I was impressed with his achievement as President in getting the first Civil Rights legislation past a senate filibuster and making it law despite his previous decade of opposition. I think his withdrawal of his 1970 candidacy for a 2nd elected term was unfortunate and premature. I noted that our book said as late as the August Convention, he had hope that the Delegates would still draft him. I had not heard that before.

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #177 on:** September 12, 2012, 06:41:22 PM »

Regarding Julie and David Eisenhower I see they are still active. Click the following fpor more Information:

http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/history/info-12-2010/where_are_they_now_julie_and_david_eisenhower.html

r I see Julie and David Eisenhower are still alive. Click the following URL for current information:

http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/history/info-12-2010/where_are_they_now_julie_and_david_eisenhower.html

bellamarie · « **Reply #178 on:** September 12, 2012, 09:32:39 PM »

Oh my heavens I just finished reading how Nixon interfered with the peace talks and halting the bombing to get elected and I have to say this chapter has made my stomach turn. I never liked Nixon before Watergate, but this I feel was an act of treason, and for LBJ and HHH to not expose him was inexcusable. He did not deserve to be president, he belonged in prison. And Henry Kissinger's involvement is more than I could even image, yet he was such a revered man. Ughhhh....

LBJ had no backbone, and to think he actually sat back hoping and waiting the people would ask him to run again after he decided not to was ridiculous. IF he would have exposed Nixon's disgusting behavior and announced he would for the good of the country jump back in the race, while ending the Vietnam war he most likely would have been re elected.

The Nixon chapters have really disgusted me and made me aware that these candidates will do just about anything regardless if it will hurt our country or not to get elected. While reading this book I can see this type of behavior and hate has gone on for decades. The President's club in my opinion is a man's club of egos. They certainly don't NEED the club, they could still engage the support and help of past presidents without it. Protect the legacy and club is hogwash. These men/presidents who do despicable/criminal acts, and then protect each other by not exposing this behavior is enabling it to continue.

So I am up to Nixon winning the election and the realization of the extent of Watergate. Sorry for the ranting post, I am just so disgusted. Nothing has changed.......it is all still going on. We have criminals for presidents.

Ciao for now~

PatH · « **Reply #179 on:** September 13, 2012, 07:53:05 AM »

Bellamarie, I just finished reading about Nixon's sabotaging the peace talks too. It's really shocking, and as you point out, treasonous. I always knew Nixon was dishonest and unscrupulous, but this takes the cake--disgusting. I wonder if he ever felt guilty for all the American lives he wasted with this move.

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #180 on:** September 13, 2012, 08:28:55 AM »

What a tangled web we weave, when. We practice to deceive. And the water gate web that Nixon wove was a complex one. The long message I left yesterday does not even scratch the surface. Nixon coming out of it as good as he did was surprizing.

Further comment on Nixon is welcome and we can move on to the Ford administration and the pardon.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #181 on:** September 13, 2012, 12:42:26 PM »

IMHP, this book strays often from its theme - "the presidents''s club" - did Nixon ever use thie brownstone? Or ask for advise from his predecessors? Did you read that he did?

THANK YOU JEAN, PAT, BELLAMARIE, HAROLD, for all your comments and for making this discussion so interesting. We can lean on history during this rather bitter campaign for president this November.

THE PARDON! Yes, the pardon.

Our authors give rather extensive coverage of it. As we look back wasn't it the best action President Ford took? He believed that a pardon "carries an imputation of guilt, acceptance, a confession of it." pg 309.

That's news to me, I just never thought of it in that way.

BELLEMARIE, your statement of the former presidents protecting the Office of the Presidency is "sright on." Our authors make this point over and over.

IS THIS WRONG?

PATH - why did you think of leaving the country? Over the Vietnam War? Where is it better?

mabel1015j · « **Reply #182 on:** September 13, 2012, 01:53:12 PM »

What is most disturbing for me is that it was not just LBJ and Nixon who were willing to lie, manipulate and act in knowingly criminal ways, but a whole group of men, especially in the N White House, many of them lawyers! Thank goodness John Dean finally had an attack of conscience and then Cox, Richardson and Ruckelshaus (sp?) said "No!". Does that show us that good people will finally will out?

bellamarie · « **Reply #183 on:** September 13, 2012, 03:11:52 PM »

Ella, After I posted that statement of protecting the club and presidents, pages later I read where it was written, and thought about it a little more. NO, IMO, it is not right to take part in a cover up of treason, but then again how could LBJ expose Nixon without exposing his own illegal acts of wire tapping. I think it is ironic how LBJ longed for a legacy as great as his predecessors, and Nixon so wanted to hold that precious office, and yet, they both held the smoking gun, that kept them from actually achieving and or enjoying what they wanted most.

Imagine beginning your presidency under a cloud of fear, knowing you have broken laws, and there are people and paper trails that could one day blow you to smithereens.....loll It is karma once you think about it.

Harold, " What a tangled web we weave, when. We practice to deceive." Isn't this fitting?

Yes, Jean, it sickened me that there were so many men involved in the cover up. Win at all costs, and protect at all costs. I haven't gotten to the part where Watergate is uncovered, and these men you mention step up. It is refreshing to know they finally do. I was just beginning my married life as this was unfolding, and just had my first baby, so I did not follow politics what so ever. At the age of 20 yrs old I had so many more things to deal with, becoming a young bride, a young mother and a home to find to begin raising my family, in a town away from my mother and siblings. Now at the ripe old age of 60, I am a political junkie!! LOLOL

I don't really think the actual club building was used for them to gather and meet. If anything it sounds like Elder Bush used it the most, while younger George was in office.

Okay on to the revealing and pardoning.......got to go read so be back later.

Ciao for now~

PatH · « **Reply #184 on:** September 13, 2012, 05:41:54 PM »

Yes, LBJ was in a real bind--couldn't reveal what Nixon had done without admitting his own lesser crimes. In addition, the furor that would have resulted might very well have derailed the peace talks anyway. I'm guessing Nixon wasn't exactly under a cloud of fear. His style seems to have been more anger and lashing out at opponents.

PatH · « **Reply #185 on:** September 13, 2012, 05:52:08 PM »

Quote from: Ella Gibbons on September 13, 2012, 12:42:26 PM

PATH - why did you think of leaving the country? Over the Vietnam War? Where is it better?

Yes--we were both horrified at the brutalities our country was committing, and frustrated at the seeming impossibility of getting it to stop. (No fear of being drafted was involved--Bob was over age and a veteran of WWII.) How serious were we? I don't really know, but suspect we wouldn't ever actually have left. We did think it over a lot though.

Where is it better? Nowhere; that's one reason we didn't go.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #186 on:** September 13, 2012, 10:34:42 PM »

OH , the irony....At the top of pg 277, nixon says to Haldeman, "i want Brookings, i want them just to break in, break in and take it out ( the files on him) Do you understand?" ...... At the bottom of the pg N is saying "Remember that any intellectual is tempted to put himself above the law.... That's the rule that i've known all my life. Any intellectual, particularly - watch what schools they're from. If they're from any Eastern schools, or Berkeley, those are particularly the potential bad ones!?!"

This is a smart man who can't see the irony in his own words and life! Very scary.

I remember thinking what a little mouse E. Howard Hunt looked like. Apparently he was anything but! But that "everyman" look worked for him in the CIA. Now Gordon Liddy looks and talks like a macho, hardline spy.

".....(Johnson showed Nixon) the recording contraptions that Kennedy had installed under the beds." Under the bed? I don't even want to know who listened to them!

"RN treated the presidency as sacred, even as he set about defiling it" that first sentence in "Nixon and Johnson" really says it all, doesn't it. He was a man of ambiguities.

I had to laugh at the story of Nixon having the Oval Office pocked- marked floor cut up into TWO INCH squares mounted them on plaques and sent them to an "appreciative coterie." Really? Quirky. Does the mental health field have a categorie of behavior that is between neurotic and psychotic? He is certainly more than neurotic, but he was living in reality enough to get elected to the presidency and look presidential a lot of the time.

This is a scary, but interesting book.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #187 on:** September 14, 2012, 08:40:57 AM »

NO, BELLEMARIE, I don't think the brownstone was meant for meetings; it was to be a temporary place for former presidents and famiies to reside when in Washington. They would be close to the White House for social events or conferences with the current president. IT WAS A PERK!!

I think our authors' theme in the book is not just the physical location of the brownstone, but the office of the presidency and those that have occupied it. They are all club members.

One statement the authors made on pag.302 caught my attention:

"The most precious commodity of the United States of America is neither the gold bullion in Fort Knox nor the launch codes in its ballistic misiles. It is the time of the commander in chief; there is only so much of it, and how it is spent shapes pretty much everything else."

WOW! What do you think of that statement?

As President Ford said speaking of the tragedy of Nixon - "It could go on and on and on or someone must write an end to it."

We must get past Nixon and onto REAGAN.

Did you love him or hate him and what did you think of those 8 years in office?

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #188 on:** September 14, 2012, 08:44:32 AM »

A note - several people were interested in the book discussion; Nancy, Callie, Dean, Maryz and Kidsal. Kathleen, we miss you.

If you are following along, we hope all of you will post now and then!

bellamarie · « **Reply #189 on:** September 14, 2012, 11:25:04 AM »

Jean, Great minds think alike. I had marked this exact paragraph to comment on. lolol

Quote

"Remember that any intellectual is tempted to put himself above the law.... That's the rule that I've known all my life. Any intellectual, particularly - watch what schools they're from. If they're from any Eastern schools, or Berkeley, those are particularly the potential bad ones!?!"

Nixon was a real piece of work. He reminds me of a little boy who is always plotting a way to break rules, and when thinking he is going to get caught, he immediately begins the cover up and argument, that others did it too. When the book mentions how Nixon could be happy and jovial, and then seconds later be depressed, because it seems it took alot out of him to muster up those emotions (paraphrasing) it made me wonder if Nixon could have been bipolar. The ups & downs and the grandiose attitude. I can't imagine being in that man's head, it had to drain him, with his constant conspiracies and cover ups. Phew it exhausted me just reading these chapters on him. This man had NO character and yet he says: "I think Johnson died of a broken heart, I really do. Here's Johnson, this big, strong, intelligent tough guy, practically getting so emotional that he'd almost cry, because his critics didn't appreciate him. He, til the very last, thought that he might be able to win them. And the point is, rather than have them love him, he should have tried to do what he could have done very well--have them respect him. And in the end, he lost. He neither gained the love nor retained the respect." In his final remarks to the White House staff, on the day he resigned his office, Nixon applied a version of the lesson to himself. "Always remember, others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself."

I'm not so sure I agree with Nixon. He knew he was hated and destroyed, and in his own twisted mind, was trying to say he was able to rise above the hate, by not hating them back. IMO BS!!!! LOLOL

Yes, we must go on even though there is so much on Nixon I feel like Ella pointed out Ford saying... "It could go on and on and on or someone must write an end to it." LOLOLOL perfectly said!!!

I am actually only up to pg. 298 Third Time's The Charm, where Ford is announced as his choice for VP. Which is only a few pages til the next assigned pages Ford/Reagan. So off I go to finish and begin next week's chapters.

p.s. Just out of curiosity, Ella, when you asked before the discussion, which president did we think the author spent more time on in the book without looking, I answered Nixon. Can I assume I was correct? lol

Ciao for now~

threadheadnet · « **Reply #190 on:** September 14, 2012, 11:33:54 AM »

Happy Friday, everyone ... haven't been able to touch our book since last week but, reading your comments, am looking forward to picking it up this weekend. I just finished re-reading Catch-22 which came out in 1961. Even though it's set in WWII, it sure captured the pure evil and idiocy of the Vietnam war years, didn't it? About two-thirds of the way through the book, a character gives us another version of Catch-22; an old woman whose young prostitutes have been driven into the street states:
"Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing."

It reminded me of Nixon's statement about presidential power, so I went to
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Richard_Nixon
to find the quote; from the 1977 interview w/David Frost:
"Well, when the President does it, that means that it is not illegal."

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #191 on:** September 14, 2012, 11:47:51 AM »

Regarding the pardon, it was the first major issue Ford had to face. I now think Ford did the right thing by issuing it. All the nation's government And public energy was focused on the Nixon issue disregarding all other national and international issues. Apparently the cold war front was relatively quiet at that tine. Perhaps Russia was occupied with their own problem at the time. In any case Ford boldly did what he determined he had to do, he issued the pardon.

The timing of the pardon seemed premature since Nixon while indicted had not yet been found guilty. Our book notes that was an issue Ford checked out with experts before issuing it. Much of the nation I included was shocked, and dismayed at Ford for this pardon. Certainly 2 1/2 years later, the pardon issue remained costing Ford another term as President.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #192 on:** September 14, 2012, 12:14:33 PM »

Ford restored my faith in politicians, and maybe mankind, after Watergate. I did not believe that he made a deal for the pardon. I liked the whole Ford family.

maryz · « **Reply #193 on:** September 14, 2012, 12:35:07 PM »

Ella, I'm here and reading - just haven't chimed in.

CallieOK · « **Reply #194 on:** September 14, 2012, 06:03:39 PM »

I'm also here and reading. For so much of the time we're discussing now, I wasn't paying one bit of attention to politics - national or otherwise, so I didn't form any opinions or impressions.
However, I'm enjoying your comments.

Edit: I suppose I thought we would be talking about the interactions between and among the presidents rather than discussing the traits of the individuals. I just don't have anything to add to that.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #195 on:** September 15, 2012, 08:03:11 AM »

You were right, BELLEMARIE, can you believe so much was written about Nixon in this book.

WHY?

President Carter is briefly mentioned, right?

"JERRY fORD AND JIMMY cARTER DISLIKED EACH OTHER FOR FIVE YEARS UNTIL THEY REALIZED THEY BOTH DISLIKED RONALD REAGAN EVEN MORE. AND THEN THEY BECAME FRIENDS."

WHY?

You are right CALLIE in believing we would/should "be talking about the interactions between and among the presidents rather than discussing the traits of the individuals."

Do you think the book strays from that subject a bit too much?

What do you think the authors meant by a "presidents club?"

I do admire the authors for not straying into the wives of the presidents - which is the subject of other books.

Hey, MARYZ, wish you would post, but happy to see you here.

And here we are on Chapters 15-19. It is going too fast, too fast, I can't keep up. Later today I'll put some questions for your consideration in the heading.

bellamarie · « **Reply #196 on:** September 15, 2012, 10:11:28 AM »

Ella, I there is so much on Nixon, because he is the one president that was so complex, and seemed to be the one intertwined with so many other presidents due to the timing of their years in politics. Also, his administration was so filled with conspiracies and criminal acts that the author used it to help fill the book.

Do you think the book strays from that subject a bit too much?

Yes, I do think the author does stray a bit too much. I felt the first chapters kept to the club and then up to Kennedy, it seems to have gone off into the personalities of the men/presidents. I'm not so sure we are actually even seeing "the club" in these past chapters. Do you think its because the presidents quit relying on past presidents so much for their advice and help? It seems to have dwindled once Eisenhower took office.

Okay off to volleyball games....ciao for now~

CallieOK · « **Reply #197 on:** September 15, 2012, 10:36:36 AM »

Ella, I agree with Bellamarie that the book spends too much time on the individuals. However, without that - it would be a much shorter book.

I wish the authors had spent more time showing how the individual actions affected the relationships between the presidents. Maybe there isn't that much reference material to research this aspect?

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #198 on:** September 15, 2012, 10:42:54 AM »

bellanarie regarding the book my main complaint is that it is certainly packed with detail making it somewhat difficult to respond on our accustom level. On the whole I judge it an excelent, well research political history of the U.S. presidency from 1945 to the present. I am glad Ella suggested it and happy to participate.

We will wind up on on the Ford term today during which we might comment on the several assinagination attempts, both by women. Both failed to hit their target and both received long prison sentences. Are both of them still in jail?

JoanP · « **Reply #199 on:** September 15, 2012, 12:11:32 PM »

Joannie-come-lately - just moved to the front of the line at the library and picked up my copy of the book yesterday. Not having read the book, I can't comment on whether the authors stray from the club too much. No way I can catch up with the rest of you. I plan to just dive into Chapter 15 and Gerry Ford - scheduled to begin tomorrow, right?

I did read the Introduction carefully in which the Presidents Club is described. From the intro, I see the answer to the reason why Ford sacrificed a term when granting Nixon the pardon. He pardoned Nixon not to save the man, but to restore the office and let the country move on. "The office trancends the individual." I noted how "former presidents line up with fat bristle brushes to whitewash stains on their records." They don't seem to have been there for Nixon...but Nixon's "club" differed from the others. In 1972, there wasn't any club. Truman and Johnson had died. Nixon was alone.

The introduction dwells on the loneliness of the presidency - how the circle of trust shrinks. Former presidents understand the pressures, the weight of their decisions and can be enormous help and source of advice to the sitting president. Nixon had no such advisors.
Not sure how Truman and LBJ would have advised him...but they would certainly have tried to guide him.

I think it was Jean who wrote of Nixon's stellar performance as president - especially foreign policy - China... He was doing fine, in my memory, right up until the election. Some say his true nature and inadequacies came out and led to his downfall at that time. I can't help but think he would not have fallen with advice from the club.

Was impressed at Clinton's comments in the Introduction - Following Nixon's death he read his letter of advice every day, he says. Oh and the remark - that he felt as he did when he lost his own mother. I strongly believe that History will treat Nixon kinder than the bad taste Watergate left.

Off to read Chapter 15 on Gerry Ford. A president I feel I know little about...

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Author Topic: Presidents Club, The by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy~September Book Club Online (Read 52903 times)