Women's Issues

[JeanneP]

Women's Issues If Art imitates Life, what does Literature show about the place of women in our society? From the Red Tent to the new movie Anna Karenina,  to Malala Yousafzai in the news, has the state of women changed? What IS the state of women today, in your opinion? Let's talk about how women are portrayed in the press, and in literature, and how accurate it is.   How does advertising reflect, if it does, how women are portrayed?  (Remember heels and pearls to sell refrigerators?) How does it seem to you that women are portrayed today? Let's talk! National Women's History Project

Gosh! Wish I had known years ago, Could have gotten my eyes done.  I have eyes like my mothers side. Close together and sort of turned up a little.  In my mothers young 20 year old photo people say she looks Chinese.  I think that the "Vikings" got into the North of UK and Scotland they left a lot of the DNA there for my family.

My Granddaughter had twins 2 years ago. Boy and Girl and the little boy has gotten our eyes. Not the girl. He got the curly hair also and little girl stright

[Steph]

More killings yesterday at the navy yard.. When will it stop.. Why do they not realize that everyone is  NOT entitled to have a gun..

[BarbStAubrey]

Maybe not but this guy was ex-Navy and so would have passed any application - you cannot test for when someone will snap - not to minimize but it always amazes me that we are so upset over those shot in a rampage that the number of deaths in a year amount to less than a hundred and yet, we are not equally upset that a hundred a day are killed on the highway - we cannot even get drunk drivers off the road and they are licensed.

[Winchesterlady]

It amazes me that the shooter was a Defense contract employee and had access to the Navy Yard -- even though he had a previous arrest record.  The Government needs to tighten up the procedures regarding the background checks of contractors. 

[BarbStAubrey]

I think that becomes a problem - there are more black men with arrest records than the number of black men with a clean record and to eliminate them from access would affect the job requirements and we would end up with a class action suit - I can see that because one snaps and over the years we have had a few shooters, they are not all from one group or another - what I mean they are not all isolated teens or ex military or folks with an arrest record - the Boston Marathon bomber would not fit any of that group so that it is not easy to figure out how to protect ourselves and still not take away peoples right to work or their other civil liberties.

I can see how a firearm is like fire - it can do good or it can cause harm and with all our safety measures for the ancient control of fire we still had campers this year starting the worst fire so far in our history. I just do not think there is any easy answer to figuring out how to reduce who can carry a firearm or how to reduce the number and ease of obtaining a firearm -

[Winchesterlady]

As a retired Federal employee, I don't think anyone (regardless of their ethnicity) with an arrest record involving firearms, should be hired by a company contracted to do work for the Federal Government.  The majority of the Government consists of contractors (which I think is unfortunate) and I think they should be held to the same standards as Federal workers.

[BarbStAubrey]

I hear you - I am though so confused - we train young people so that they can use a firearm as second nature and we are not very selective of those who volunteer to learn this skill in order to fight but they are to have the good judgement that will over ride the intense training that supports it is an action without thinking in order to handle living in areas out of a military zone. I wish there was a switch we all had in our heads that would allow us to over-ride any intense training to act without thought - I know most of those discharged from the military can do that - I wonder the difference between those who can and those who do not. That is really what I would like to know - what is it that makes up that difference.

I guess from what you are saying that must be a difference in those, like yourself hired by the Federal Government where law suites are not papering the halls of every office building or installation where as, private contractors have to face the risk of a law suite.  Not sure which is better - folks wanting to reduce the Fed Budget want to privatize but then no private contractor can use the same hiring and firing practices. From what i hear only on the news we are not saving any by using private contractors and any savings is not passed on to the US Treasury but goes into the hip pocket of the private contractor.  

[BarbStAubrey]

An aside - was browsing and found this

http://www.njbg.org/skylandsmanor.shtml#people

I wonder how far from Jean this is located - Jean have you ever visited - the workshops sound wonderful - would love to attend all of them - and Lilac oh oh oh - do you have lilacs in your garden - that is what makes Santa Fe so wonderful in Spring - so many lilac bushes the whole close in part of town smells like lilac perfume.

Also, what grabbed my attention is the oak paneling came from Lyme Regis in Britain. That is the location of the book we will be reading in November, Remarkable Creatures

[Steph]

I guess my reaction is that now they are saying he was actually carrying a shot gun when he entered the gate.. Why oh why would that be allowed. I had just read that firearms are not carried at all at installations of this type... ??Does that make sense.

[MaryPage]

I live in the area and get the Washington Post and the Washington, DC TV channels and radio stations, etc., so maybe I get more complete details than you do.
He had the proper security clearance card to get into the facility.  Therefore he got his car though the gate, and he knew he would.  He no longer was a government employee, but worked for a PRIVATE CONTRACTOR.  I, personally, have never approved of the huge increase in our government, and most especially our Department of Defense, contracting out to private enterprise.  It is a Republican thing, quite frankly.  They went into it big time with G.W. Bush and the neo cons.  The basic principle is:  make government smaller and be able to tell the electorate that and then enrich the pockets of the private enterprise Big Wigs who support our being in public office and feeding at the so rewarding trough of power mongers.  The end result is this:  they can truthfully tell the American people there are far fewer people on the government payroll and they, the Republicans, have therefore kept their campaign promises and made the federal government smaller, BUT they have actually sent even MORE tax dollars to the "contractors" in the public sector who then have to be cleared and who do not work nearly as hard or with as much dedication and training.  Scheesch!  I wish the whole world could see it from our vantage point here.  We see it in folks all around us.
So this man, who had been given a general dismissal from the service (not as good as an honorable) and who had sought psychological help, but they are not allowed to say so, and who had twice shot bullets in extreme anger and police called in in two different states, but it could not go on his record because THERE WAS NO CONVICTION, could get hired on the spot by a private contractor and get right into the Navy Yard.  And park.  And take his gear into a bathroom and come out shooting.
As long as the NRA and the big corporations own our elected officials, and they do, oh believe me they do, this is the way things will be done and people will die and we will not REALLY be ready to defend our country.  Remember how our servicemen had to beg their families at home to send them armor for protection?  We did not have it in Defense!  The money was pouring into Private Industry!

[MaryPage]

The most dire truth is that the public does not remember past a week or two.  And they never think back and connect the dots.
And do you know who it was who first warned us of this outcome?  Back in 1961, it was.  I remember it well.  He said:
"The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded."
He was a Republican president of these United States.  And he saw what was beginning to happen and was appalled.
Dwight David Eisenhower was his name.
You can find the speech on line everywhere.  It was called his "Military Industrial" speech!  Historians know all about it.  The public cares not.

[MaryPage]

Do you connect the dots?  Do you see the whole nasty picture?
When government work, that is to say, the public work that taxpayers pay for, is to be "privatized", that is to say, is to be performed NOT by government itself, but by private enterprise corporations who do their own hiring & firing, elected officials who have reinvented the laws of our land to make this possible can receive large contributions to their campaigns and lavish trips and meals and gifts AND the promise of fat paying "consulting" jobs the minute they leave public office from these "private" contractors.  Government employees, on the other hand, are not allowed to be politically partisan, beyond their private vote in the voting booth.
And the Republicans toot their horns loudly and proclaim there to be less spending in the government agencies.  Well yeah!  Less IN them and more OUT of them!  And the work being done is careless and uncaring and not good.  These firms are not dedicated to the public safety and well being.  They are dedicated to making money.  Period.
That is what the battle to prevent Obamacare is all about.  The huge private industry health organizations are making bazillions ripping off those who can afford to pay for their lives.  They don't want to have to cut into their huge profits and actually save the lives of those who cannot afford to pay.  Hell no!  You can't make a profit and see the world from your private yachts and jetplanes if you give it away to those whose health is actually suffering!

[Winchesterlady]

I live in the area and get the Washington Post and the Washington, DC TV channels and radio stations, etc., so maybe I get more complete details than you do.
He had the proper security clearance card to get into the facility.  Therefore he got his car though the gate...

Agree with you on this one MaryPage

[Steph]

I have never understood this private contracting for any sort of defense or war.. But you do make it clear why.. Republicans nowadays are quite a different breed of cat after Eisenhauer, who has always been a favorite of miine.

[marjifay]

I remember Eisenhower's speech as the Military/Industrial Complex speech, where in his farewell 1961 speech, he warned Americans of the danger of this group's influence.

You probably heard of the Eisenhower administration's Operation Wetback in 1954 where the police swarmed into Mexican-American barrios and picked up those they considered to be illegals and transported around one million of them far back into the interior of Mexico.

We're planning a drive in October thru the Midwest where I grew up.  One of the places I want to visit is Eisenhower's home and library/museum in Kansas. Hopefully we'll also get to see Truman's in Missouri.  Truman is one of my favorite presidents.   I wish I were young enough to see all the presidential libraries.  Living in Southern California, I've visited the Nixon and Reagan libraries.

Marj

[Dana]

It stands to reason that it will always be impossible to gaurantee that everyone who owns a firearm is sane or rational enough to use it appropriately, and won't go anywhere they shouldn't with it..  I must admit it is beyond me what the appropriate  use of an AK47 or whatever,by a civilian, might be.
However the US will go on having mass murders till the gun law changes which won't happen in my lifetime.  I can just hope not to get caught in a massacre!

[BarbStAubrey]

I guess that is how I feel about vehicles made for the road that go over 150 miles an hour. The Bugatti'a, Jags, Ferrari's or the Lamborghini that all can travel over 200 miles an hour. 

[MaryPage]

It is rather like, Barbara.  I mean, you cannot see the sense in human beings spending money on special features they cannot possibly use!  In my mind, the automatic refiring guns than can kill dozens of people in minutes are not needed for home protection or hunting.  So what are they for?  They are great for killing a dozen people at the Navy Yard or twenty children who are sitting ducks in the First Grade.

It is the gun manufacturers that want to manufacture more guns and sell more guns and make more profits.  So they pay our politicians to vote their way and only their way.  It is not the hunters or policemen or servicemen of this country who think this way.  I don't know about your police where you are, but here in Anne Arundel County, Maryland and in Washington DC the police desperately want to see these guns, the ones that can shoot so many at one time, taken out of the hands of civilians.

[Dana]

Hear hear

I don't think expensive fast cars are the same at all.  For a start there aren't nearly so many of them around, and when did you last hear of a fast car mowing down 20 people at a time.

[Winchesterlady]

I agree Dana. Gun laws have to change.  In actuality, speeding-related fatalities have decreased in the U.S. in recent years, whereas deaths by gun continue to rise. Like you, I don't think we'll see a change in the gun laws during our life time.

[MaryPage]

The comparison between the buying of cars that will go 180 miles an hour with the buying of guns that will kill a dozen people in almost the blink of an eye is not meant to be about how many people each, the cars and the guns, can kill. 
No, that is not the point at all.
The point is THE THINKING of some people!  The thinking that just doesn't figure any way you look at it. 
Why would you spend tons of money you could spend some OTHER way on a car you would not legally be able to drive at those speeds?  Whyever in this world would you?
And why would you feel the need of purchasing a gun that will kill so many people so quickly?  Let's say you are a hunter.  You cannot take this gun, not legally you can't, to kill deer with.  It is just not allowed.  Not sportmanlike.  Not done.  No, these guns are acknowledged to be just for killing people.  So as I say, go figure!
That is the point of the comparison, the fuzzy thinking, and not the body count in each instance.
No doubt we can think of hundreds of other ways in which people blather on about how they have every right to own and by golly WILL assert their right to own such and such a thing that, when you get down to it, is of no use to them for the purpose it was created for.  I.E., in this instance illegal high speeds and illegal killing of masses of people.

[MaryPage]

To put it another way, who is actually going to USE that car that cost so much to buy because it is souped up to go a bazillion miles per hour, well, who is going to actually drive it that fast?  How CAN they?  So what in the world is the POINT?  We are not talking race car drivers here.
And how many millions, for that is what the NRA gun manufacturers are selling and want to sell, millions of guns that are manufactured only for the purpose of killing lots and lots of HUMAN BEINGS as fast as possible are going to be used for the purpose for which they are made and sold?  Again, what in this world is the POINT of buying and owning such weapons?  Outside of the army in a war?
I think it is related to male hormones, I swear I do!  Both instances:  the cars and the assault weapons.

[JeanneP]

And they say that women do not have patience.
So fair have spent 4days trying to get this done. Thank goodness now retired.

What a day for me. Nothing but messing with my car again. No.4 trip to Honda. First to have brakes checked. Also my power locks not working. Told them to check everything. So brakes done but could not get the part needed to fix locks as the car was getting old. I  got on line and found 3 places. As they  had charged me $99 to look at lock problem and another $570 for rest I wasn't happy specially as brake red light keptcoming on. They found that a part they had put on was broken. Company sending another. Would i take car today they Had gotten part to also fix locks. Needed 4hours. Go to pick up. Brakes now done. Part for lock, wrong. They will order it again.  So still have no. 5 trip to make. Good thing I have a lot of patience now.
Now I feel better just typing it out.  Such I day.  Hope more fun tomorrow.

[BarbStAubrey]

Speeding deaths may have lessened but I sincerely wish there were only as many deaths by a vehicle as those who are murdered by a gun, individually or in mass - but that is, as MaryPage explained, not the point  - it is not about how many at one time can be killed - A pickup truck is more libel for a mass killing on a highway than the many Jags or Ferrari's and here in Austin there are many, along with the BMWs and Porsche's - it reminds me that each culture has this ridiculous idea of what is top of the line regardless its practicality because, as you say a hunter or a competitive shooter cannot and does not use these specialty guns.

I am seeing that regardless of danger or special care needed to protect the high priced specialty vehicle or gun or jewels or, or, or, folks only think of their ego tied to the ownership - they do not see the responsibility they have for the temptation of mis-use nor the thoughtlessness of putting temptation out for others with little control. I guess I think of how my mom taught me not to leave your money laying around on top of the table when you expect guests or to close your purse and take it with you while shopping or put your wallet in an inside pocket - we are responsible not to leave temptation for others. I think top of the line is a status symbol regardless its final use.

As to stopping the manufacture of any specialty item, I cannot see it happening - so it is illegal in this state or that state or even the entire nation - that does not stop guns from being manufactured elsewhere and it does not stop those who want assault weapons and who have the mucho dollars to buy and pay for illegal transportation of the gun. As long as we have police with these weapons and as long as we have young men coming home from war having used these weapons we have folks who feel they need and want these weapons.

As long as we have gun collectors who, like those who collect cars and have a garage full of vehicles that are capable of more speed than needed there is a market for the outrageous. We cannot say that market is only for certain people - for now at least the cost of powerful guns is great enough that not every Tom, Dick and Harry owns one.

Yes, in 2011 there were less fatal road accidents since 1949 at 32,367 - A bit more than 10%  However, in 2011 the total gun related deaths in the US including suicides, accidents, hand gun and long gun is 32,163 and of that, the number of gun murders is 11,101 -

I am trying to come to terms why the news does not make as big a story, except for maybe one news cycle, out of a  driver causing multiple deaths. The news does not report an examination into the rational, or lack of, the life history, interviews with their wife or mother, the mental capacity, the religion, the economic circumstances of a drunk driver or a driver who lost control of his vehicle killing 5, 7 or 10 as we do someone who kills as many using a weapon. Even when the weapon is not a specialty weapon but one (or more) that any sportsmen or rancher or farmer has in their home the news continues for a couple of days.

I think we are all, upset and horrified wanting these mass murders to stop - listening to Charlie Rose guests the other night this sounds like a complex problem that they still do not have nailed. The professional dealing with these cases suggests these are people who are essentially committing suicide and want to take many down with them with the expectation of notoriety after death. If this copy cat type of thinking is right maybe it is just as well the highway deaths are not given more air time including the personal history of the driver - we may be keeping copy cats from committing more highway deaths.

I wonder how many homicides can be attributed to the specialty guns - so far the only number I can find of deaths by the specialty vehicles last year are 110. Both owning the high powered gun and the high powered vehicle seem over the top however, unless we find a different number it appears the average pickup and mid size car is responsible for more deaths and most of the mass killings are as a result of hand and long guns holding between 7 and 16 bullets in a clip - A Glock  holds 9 to a max 15 bullets and so to have a continuous non-stop barrage of bullets would require some sort of machine gun of which yes, an AK47 would fit - the least expensive is made in China - not the US. Even establishing trade restrictions the gun can still be purchased over seas and brought into the country illegally.

After finding this site I am totally out of ideas how to stop this - this site lists the guns used in every mass murder since Whitman's rampage here in Austin in 1966. There appears to be as many hand guns and simple rifles or shotguns used as semi automatic and the automatic guns with large magazines.  http://www.bradblog.com/?p=9781

  

[Steph]

Our traffic laws are too lax.  I was in Scotland for a wedding some years back. All othe guest were  picked  up by a small van type.. There was going to be alcohol at the reception and if you are stopped in Scotland and have any type of
alcohol in your system, they take your license on the spot.. Hence, all guest were transported. If we were that strict, my husband would still be alive and so would a lot of others in Florida..

[MaryPage]

In Scotland they will fight to the death for their individual rights of freedom, but they do not believe that individual freedom extends to the right to take away the life of other human beings.
In this country, we insist that individual freedom means we have the right to get into a vehicle drunk out of our minds and aim it like the deadly weapon it can be.  It also means we can yell at and touch people going into health clinics that also perform abortions, or stand outside the funeral of one of our heroic servicemen and hollar out that they are dead because God Hates Fags and this country allows them.
Then they scream if anyone puts up a bill to make it a law that they are a criminal if they drive drunk or verbally assault clinic patrons or grieving citizens.  They insist we plan to take away their Freedom of Speech.  What they really mean is we want to stop the mayhem and pain they are causing, but they do not see it that way.
We, as a country, should be protecting the rights of the VICTIMS, not of the victimizing.
But we can't get it right in these cases, just as we keep getting it wrong in the matter of rapists vis a vis their victims.
We do much more to protect drunk drivers and clinic roughians and funeral interrupters and rapists than we do to protect victims.  Another young woman, 23 years old with 2 very small children, was killed by her ex husband here in Annapolis just last week.  Another case of asking for  a protecitive order and a judge denying it.  It just goes on and on.

[Steph]

This issue of male judges who deny restraining orders bothers me a lot. NO PROOF, they bellow, then after the death, they are not even apologetic.. Sigh. We as a nation have a lot to answer for.. Protecting both men and women from others rage is supremely important.. Not that a retraining order stops the really nuts.

[jane]

I personally think restraining orders are a waste of time.  If someone needs one to keep somebody away, that somebody doesn't give a hoot about a piece of paper. They are in  "stalker mentality" and, I think, likely to escalate.  

I don't know what the solution is to that "stalker mentality"...but those are very scary people.

[BarbStAubrey]

Though some people minimize the value of a protective order as being "just a piece of paper," it is the only legal way to remove the abuser from your home and for a woman to be awarded temporary physical custody of the children.

Police routinely advise women who are in danger to obtain an order. It authorizes the police to arrest the batterer for abusing the woman by doing things that would not ordinarily be against the law, such as going to your home or workplace, or calling you on the phone.

Yes, if someone is in a rage and does not care if he breaks the law then no "piece of paper" will stop him from breaking and entering, nor from battering once inside, nor from killing after entry. However, if the woman has time to make a 911 call after obtaining an order the response will be immediate.

[jane]

Barbara...I assume you're referring to Texas law.  In Texas, if the person obeys the Order and if you do get prompt law help when you call, then it is indeed a good thing.

I suspect the law and what is included varies greatly from state to state.

It seems that for the people I know, the order has not stopped the stalker type person who seems to believe a "relationship" exists where there is none.

[BarbStAubrey]

That is true since anyone wanting to batter anyone - man or women as the batterer or the victim is already breaking the law and so what is one more law to break - but having the order gives some teeth to the authorities and keeps the kids from being removed to foster care.

[JeanneP]

I never called for a protection order but did have someone stalking me for a number of years. Was not a good thing.  Even found a tracker under my car.  Seems it is done more and more these days.  To me it is a sickness and one does need to be careful.

[MaryPage]

Speaking of connecting the dots, which I was doing a few days ago, while there are many issues and subjects I have been able over the years to do this with, most often with the assistance of my brilliant husband who spent 31 years as an intelligence analyst and many experts in many fields who wrote articles and books which I read, I am continually bumping into new data about things it never occurred to me to examine in any kind of detail.  After discovering these sorts of things, I often feel I have egg on my face due to the degree of ignorance I might well have exhibited had I been asked a question before gaining my new insight.
So it has been with a short article in the September 30 issue of The Nation.  This one is on the subject of diapers.  Who knew!
I would have proclaimed at the top of my voice, had I been asked, that I used cloth diapers for my babies and washed them out by hand.  A sense of superior certainty would have suffused my being as I also considered how the land fills were not added to by mountains of my infants excrement and far fewer trees died to protect their chubby little butts.  Not to mention the cash money I saved.
OK, here is a summing up of the facts, and I am abashed at my ignorance.  It costs about $100 a month to diaper a child up to and through their becoming house broken.  For most poor women this means a choice of diapering or not eating.  So they dump out the contents of the diapers and PUT THEM BACK ON THE BABY!  Rashes, UTIs, chafing and worse ensue.  Oh, and they can't afford the usual remedies for these things, either.  So the babes suffer dreadfully.
The mothers get very depressed over this situation.  So do the babies.  If the mothers work, most daycare places will not allow cloth diapers.  For want of a diaper, their job may be in peril.  But it is forbidden to buy diapers with food stamps!  Most poor women do not own washing machines, and most laundromats will not let you wash diapers!
This article goes on and on and on, until I am forced to realize that when you are downtrodden, the world just stomps you down further and further and further.

[Steph]

Oh me, MaryPage, I really never looked at it that way. I used cloth diapers and washed them, rinsed them in white vinegar, etc etc. My arguement with the other sort of things is the length of time the children stay in them.. They go from diapers to  pull ups to all sorts of things.. Housebreaking infants used to be routine, but am not quite sure that new mothers do much of it any more.
One of our charities locally that does a lot of work with small children and infants routiney asks for pampers, etc since they say the same as you.The mothers cannot afford them and they are necessary.

[MaryPage]

I honestly believe that ONE, and only one, mind you, but a major one, answer to the difficulties of the poor young mothers and their children is to make birth control pills FREE from the taxpayers of this nation.  Free in every pharmacy and hospital and health clinic and you name it. 
This would eliminate most, not all, but most unwanted children.
The problem is the folks who say it is against their religion!
Their religion tells them God means every baby to be born.  My religion differs.  My religion says God is allowing us to figure things out for ourselves and to add up the figures and connect the dots.
Under our present way of doing things, women are forced to become pregnant despite their urgent wishes not to, and then forced to carry that pregnancy to term and produce another mouth to feed and bottom to diaper.
But the time span the religious are interested in:  i.e., fertilization to birth, has now passed.  Having been born, these little humans can jolly well starve or die of disease (like the UTIs that plague them) or whatever!  Hey, their goal is accomplished:  they got them born!
It just does not compute in my brain!

[BarbStAubrey]

The controversy that gets me is the lack of ease to get the day after pill - in my mind EVERY new purse should include one day after pill and a small compartment in the purse to carry the pill just as there should be a pocket to carry your I phone.

Those whose hue and cry is over young teens being introduced to the concept have their head in the sand - if a girl does not know, how does she protect herself - it is not like it was even as recently as 15 years ago - young women who are subject to early sex are not only a part of the going culture but often, they comply because they were sexually messed with as kids - when grown ups are either not told or if told, and do nothing because they do not know how to handle it or the girl knows if she tells someone goes to jail and she is silent not wanting to deal with that or if she tells friends it is all over facebook  - the girl learns that sex is what is expected in order to be liked, included and loved plus, she also learns her body is not valuable - these are some of the reasons for early pregnancies that if we adopt a culture of the day-after-pill as common as an I phone we would have more wanted children than unwanted pregnancies.

We wonder why there is such an epidemic of bullies among kids from Jr. high onward - look at all the adults who want their way and bully their kids rather than teach with love - look at how many ministers bully their congregation from the pulpit - look at how many police bully anyone they stop - look at how this nation has a truck load of legislators in every layer of government bullying women, gays, immigrants -

We are justifying past horrors for bullying those who are Muslims and then we talk about how awful we were during WWII to the Japanese - no, we do not ship folks off to camps but then, what do you call the monstrous number of Black men incarcerated, who, as we learn their infractions were the kind when we were kids was taken care of in our community - and to top it off this nation did us all a disservice bullying us into believing smoking marijuana would lead us to all sorts of horrors including taking the first step to becoming addicted to serious drugs. Regardless, our attitude about the use of marijuana the bullying tactics is the issue.

We wonder where the kindness has gone - we wonder at the rudeness at every turn - we are horrified that actions we assumed were an easy normal way of life must be re-taught as acts of human dignity - from the way our economic system works to how many kids have to meet an outside force as their way to be educated we have power mongers in charge who use their bully pulpit to bully compliance. We must walk around with a protective shield  - some call it greed I see it as bullying with greed an aspect of wanting and pushing power which is all a bully wants is the power over others.

Part of this I blame industry and corporations who are the leaders in how salaries are established. Salaries never took into account that a women has the care of children to consider when she is on the job and so Day Care workers and Teachers in primary schools have never been paid except begrudgingly because the workplace always treated day care with annoyance as if it was not their responsibility - The benefit of cheap labor was and still is the women on the job but ingrained now is the habit to a paycheck that supports the sacrifice of children - Industry never wanted to own the children that men never owned in the workplace so they expected women to disown in the workplace as if it was their scarlet letter to have to afford day care.

Without the expectation that Day Care workers and Primary school teachers are professionals  paid as professionals in industry with similar higher education the service industry for children are seeing themselves as they are paid and too often revert to handling the children like a job without respect for individual children or if their nurturing skills are tapped, they do the job as they were treated when their mother reacted in an over worked situation with too many children who all needed her attention.

And primary school teachers are now being bullied into proving their value with tests created by young often inexperienced folks who want a part time job in the summer and have to resort to a bevy of textbooks to make up these tests. Real teaching is to grow someone's natural curiosity into skills - there is no longer any time for that since the teacher has been bullied into accepting her value and paycheck is dependent on her students passing a test created by folks who never taught the grade level she is teaching.  

No matter how differently we see these issues we are so bent out of shape and want change our way so that we end up joining the ranks of the bullies - I am beginning to sound like Ron Paul but in that one issue he comes close - I do not think we let live and live but I do think the idea of making others do what we want by getting enough folks to agree is the heart of what makes a bully -

I do not think there are only the extremes of either a bully or laissez faire and I do understand how when emotions are involved it is easy to act out bully like tactics - but it is just as easy when emotions are involved to like, love, support, be respectful, smile not want to hurt someone's feelings who we care about - on every level we could disagree while we elevate respect for each other - what we do to offset thousand of years of disrespect to mothers and children - to women in general I wish there was a magic pill. We could at least recognize we ARE being bullied and learn how to deal with bullies.  

[MaryPage]

Well said, Barbara!
Some basics about human society:
Males want sex.
Males think about having sex 24/7 from about the age of 13.
Males bully females into sex with all sorts of promises.
Males blame the female for enticing them and then color the female a whore and dump the ones they have impregnated, saying the consequences are the females to deal with.
Males squeal like stuck pigs if asked to pay child support or have their tax dollars support children of single unwed or divorced mothers.
Men who take vows of celibacy make up rules that females must never use contraceptives and must give birth to every conception.
There are exceptions to these basics, but the exceptions are few and far between.
So, we need to be honest about these basics and deal with them!

[maryz]

Off topic, but this is an article from the new on-line Smithsonian magazine (that we get via e-mail) about women.

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/history/2013/09/the-women-who-mapped-the-universe-and-still-couldnt-get-any-respect/?utm_source=smithsoniantopic&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20130922-Weekender

[BarbStAubrey]

This is great Maryz - an enlightening article - however, yes always a however, I think we are still accepting this attitude as the norm - sure it was history but we are not outraged as we are when we read of other exploitation.

But regardless of the unequal pay and distribution of duties, this work was incredibly important; the data provided the empirical foundations for larger astronomical theory. Pickering allowed some women to make telescopic observations, but this was the exception rather than the rule.

We are still fighting unequal pay - we still do not have any compensation for the care of children or a norm of day care centers in the vicinity of any company with 100 or more workers. This should be as common as a secretary who takes messages or a phone system that holds messages or a lunch room/lounge for breaks.

The work hours have always treated individuals as if they are not part of a family - they are OK if they are part of a community of other individuals even to having a campus like setting to work in that encourages community or boxes at various sports stadiums or even a box at the local concert hall - they will even go as far as to acknowledge workers have wives or husbands who are included during various events and maybe an annual Spring or Winter event for the children but that is going by the wayside in their cost cutting measures.

Interesting how each generation of men learn from the preceding generation that where women are now ALLOWED to enjoy equal opportunity they are expected to have the same relationship with their children that man have had which seems to be out of sight out of mind. For heavens sake even park rangers do not have their kids in tow when they are taking a group of visitors out to see the wonders of nature or if they are setting up the fire lite campsite where park campers will spend the evening with storytellers.

I wonder whatever happened to the many small companies that we heard of back 20 years ago started by moms and they were working in barns etc. with their babies and dogs making things liek applesauce and fleece hiking clothes. I wonder with the original children grown and probably collage age if they still have young moms working or if the companies still exist rather than being sold off for a profit to a large buyout company.

[JeanneP]

There are more places in my town to get Birth Con. Pills. Even the University clinic they are Free. I read how many children are now born out of wedlock( over 40% in US. with one person having them not with the same man.  In my town it is really high. See young girls with 2 o3. Must get the diapers free someplace as it doesn't stop them from having babies because of the cost.
.
Another thing changed. Babies were out of diapers much younger is seems. My eldest girl 12 months and next one about 14 months. It was expected.  Even in my family I see them 3 years old still wearing diapers. One went to Nursery school and mother told he had to be trained. Now these a  Grandsons wives so I never say a thing.

If one can train a puppy in a few weeks and that does take patience as I have done it. Then they should work harder on training babies.  It can be done.  I knew one person whose child could go into fridge and fill its own bottle . See them using pacifier's  at 3 to 4 years old.  Not in my days or daughters children also.  (One can talk to their own daughters). Just to many things are accepted these days.

Cloth diapers were not that bad. After all it wasn't but wet most of the time. If anything else then was a problem once they got by a few months old.