Author Topic: Travels with Herodotus by Ryszard Kapuscinski (Read 49087 times)

JoanP · « **on:** November 28, 2012, 03:44:13 PM »

The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.

Travels with Herodotus
Ryszard Kapuscinski

"We struggle against time, against the fragility of memory … If we don’t write down what we learn and experience, that which we carry within will perish when we die." Ryszard Kapuscinski

Part autobiography, part literary criticism and part meditation, Travels with Herodotus tells the story of two intertwined journeys: the author's literal voyages across the globe, and his pursuit of Herodotus, the Greek historiographer who reported from foreign lands in the fifth century BC. And Kapuscinski brings Herodotus to life, showing again just what a superlative writer he is. He lived and worked at the juncture of two epochs: the era of written history was beginning, but the oral tradition still predominated. Sara Wheeler The Guardian

Discussion Schedule:

Jan. 4-12 Crossing the Border up to Memory Along the Roadways of the World
Jan. 13-17 Memory Along the Roadways of the World up to Among Dead Kings
Jan. 18-24 Among Dead Kings up to Time Vanishes
Jan. 25-31 Time Vanishes to end of last chapter, We Stand in Darkness

For Your Consideration
January 4-12

1. "--what was important was not the destination ... but the almost mystical and transcendant act of crossing the border." What kind of borders other than physical will the author have to cross as he travels into other countries?

2. Why Herodotus as a companion? Do you think he will be a good one?

3. The author wonders how Herodotus' temptation to know the world was born? Do you have that temptation? Can you tell how it was born? Why do some people have it and others not?

4. He sees language as a wall preventing him from going further. Have you had that feeling?

5. Later, he sees the great Wall of China as a symbol. Of what? How many walls can you find in this book?

6. "Identity here (in India) is determined by the language spoken." How does speaking English affect our identity? Would we be the same people if we spoke a different language?

7. Here we experience life in two Communist countries (Poland and China). How are they alike? Different?

8. How do Chinese and Indian thought differ, according to Kapuscinski? What do you think: if you've read about Eastern thought, do you agree with him? Do you agree with his approach to learning?

Discussion Leaders: JoanK , JoanP, Barbara

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #1 on:** November 28, 2012, 06:16:24 PM »

The books we choose on Senior Learn seem to get more exciting each month - I am so looking forward to this discussion - current history, ancient history, adventure, travel, intrigue, friendships, on and on what more could we ask for during the cold winter after the holiday season. Thanks JoanP, the heading is wonderful and beautifully ties the work of Ryszard Kapuscinski to Herodotus and his Histories...

This is one of the books that we will be glued to each page so bring your coffee or tea or wine with you and settle in - this is armchair travel at its finest... I sure hope many of you will be joining us...

JoanK · « **Reply #2 on:** November 29, 2012, 05:08:56 PM »

Like Barbara, I couldn't put this book down. It started me thinking about so many things: the nature of history, why we travel, what we leave behind us, what freedom means. And to talk about them with my good friends here is astounding!

So join us for another exciting adventure. I'll bring the wine and grapes from Greece, if someone else brings the kielbasa from Poland!

JoanP · « **Reply #3 on:** November 30, 2012, 11:03:01 AM »

A warm welcome to all! After the first chapter, it is clear we are in for a very different and thought-provoking experience! A young, novice reporter with very little schooling and no travel experience outside of his own town in Poland, no other language but his own - is sent to India of all places, with nothing but a copy of Herodotus' histories (written in the 5th century - BC!) as his guide. It should be noted, Herodotus himself was a cub reporter when he wrote his histories too.

Wish I could remember who recommended this book to our group! Whoever you are, thank you!

Still undecided? Read the first chapter and see if you can put it down! Can't wait to get started on January 4!

Frybabe · « **Reply #4 on:** December 01, 2012, 12:03:01 AM »

I will be traveling with you.

JoanK · « **Reply #5 on:** December 01, 2012, 01:32:30 PM »

Hooray!

kidsal · « **Reply #6 on:** December 03, 2012, 01:14:19 AM »

Yes, have the book

JoanP · « **Reply #7 on:** December 03, 2012, 07:33:36 AM »

Frybabe, Kidsal, terrific! This is such an unusual book - I'm hooked after the first chapter. Really didn't expect to be. It will be quite an adventure to start the new year. Happy to hear you are in!

Babi · « **Reply #8 on:** December 04, 2012, 08:26:12 AM »

Yea, verily. I have not only "Travels with Herodotus", I also have my book on classic historians which includes a hefty section on Herodotus and his writings. This should be a
very interesting trip.

JoanK · « **Reply #9 on:** December 04, 2012, 03:10:40 PM »

I have such a book, too. But we shouldn't need it. Our author has picked out gems for us to read.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #10 on:** December 04, 2012, 04:08:01 PM »

Yes, and if anyone has read the Upanishads please HELP - I have a copy that is supposed to explain but oh oh oh the Indian/Hindu references are not in my experience bag and so a bit of help would be appreciated.

The book is not necessary at all for the read only that while in India he notes the father quoting each morning to his young son from this holy book and I thought what a great opportunity to explore a new line of thinking and devotion. .

Jonathan · « **Reply #11 on:** December 04, 2012, 05:07:44 PM »

I'm sure I have a few things about the Upanisads somewhere in the house. I remember enjoying their strange thought objectives years ago. They overwhelm one with a sense of exploration in the outermost reaches of human experience. Explanation isn't helpful. In fact, it could be harmful. It's more like a mental immersion in the deep end of the metaphysical or spiritual pool. Ultimate reality.

I've had Ryszard's TRAVELS WITH HERODOTUS on my table for a year waiting to be read. How wonderful to do it in your company. Where's the part on the Upanisads, Barb?

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #12 on:** December 04, 2012, 06:08:58 PM »

So glad you will be with us bringing I hope some of your famous wit - He visits India early on in the book but I read this last Spring so that I would have to plow through to find it again - I just remember of the various experiences that was one that I wanted to follow up and learn about - the Histories being the other - for the next few days I am on a really tight schedule but I have decided to bring the books with me for pre-discussion while I am visiting my daughter back in NC - it is coldddd there and so I will be indoors most of the time wrapped in sweat shirts and sweaters - I will locate the pages about the Upanishads in the next couple of days

kidsal · « **Reply #13 on:** December 05, 2012, 02:37:44 AM »

Found The Upanishads on my bookshelf. Penguin Classic with Intro

Babi · « **Reply #14 on:** December 05, 2012, 02:15:24 PM »

Here's a bit about Herodotus and his work that might be interesting to remember when
we read Mr. Kapuschinski's epic.
"Herodutus composed his history during a period which was witnessing a rapid upsurge of
man's confidence in his ability to render both himself and his environment intelligible. His
work was intended to be read aloud and thus it employs oral techniques, presents serial arrays of vivid episodes, and includes a great deal of material intended to entertain the audience." Michael Grant,
"Readings in the Classical Historians."

I would imagine our inexperienced author would greatly appreciate an "upsurge of...confidence".

JoanK · « **Reply #15 on:** December 05, 2012, 02:58:05 PM »

An ancient Greek point of viw, an ancient Indian point of view, and a modern Polish point of view . who says we Seniors aren't flexible thinkers!

I'll be digging to see what I have on the Upinshads. Can't wait!

Jonathan · « **Reply #16 on:** December 05, 2012, 05:51:22 PM »

I needn't have asked. A quick glance at the CONTENTS was enough. Rabi Sings the Upanishads is the fourth chapter heading. I couldn't stop there. Just imagine! Heavenly bliss, Hindu style, is only a breath away. If done properly.

Every chapter sounds just as promising.

Is Ryszard Polish for Richard?

Babi · « **Reply #17 on:** December 06, 2012, 08:39:57 AM »

Or maybe Richard is English for Ryszard? But yes, Richard is the English version
of Ryszard, and the name apparently means 'brave power'. Introduced to England
by the Normans, who gifted them with a few King Richards as you know.

JoanK · « **Reply #18 on:** December 06, 2012, 05:36:44 PM »

"the Normans, who gifted them with a few King Richards as you know. "

Until Richard III got a bad rep. There hasn't been a Richard since. (Do you think we'll refuse to elect Richards as presidents, since Nixon's debacle? I hope not: my husband was named Richard, and it's a good name).

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #19 on:** December 06, 2012, 11:27:33 PM »

Nice article on Why We Travel - http://www.worldhum.com/features/travel-stories/why-we-travel-20081213/

Babi · « **Reply #20 on:** December 07, 2012, 08:28:38 AM »

There have been researches that contradict that image of Richard III. I'm more inclined to
believe those than the Shakespeare version, which is free to take liberties with history for the
sake of dramatic impact...not to mention royal flattery.

Frybabe · « **Reply #21 on:** December 07, 2012, 02:07:49 PM »

Barb, do you thing the Why We Travel link is useful over on the Hobbit discussion group? Some, if not all, of the reasons for traveling could so nicely fit into why it was necessary for Bilbo to go on this quest even if, at the time, he could not see it at the time. I think Gandalf did.

JoanK · « **Reply #22 on:** December 07, 2012, 03:46:49 PM »

I agree that "Why we travel" would be good in "the Hobbit".

Full of wonderful quotes: "We travel, initially, to lose ourselves; and we travel, next, to find ourselves"

And "the sovereign freedom of traveling comes from the fact that it whirls you around and turns you upside down, and stands everything you took for granted on its head."

We Sociologists have a saying: a fish can't see the water it's swimming in. It's only by getting out of the water and looking back can one see it.

My only quibble with the article is that all of his examples show how much better off we are than other peoples. That's true, but sometimes we find that other peoples have lessons to teach us, too (more important ones than styles of basket weaving).

Frybabe · « **Reply #23 on:** December 07, 2012, 04:03:40 PM »

Quote

...but sometimes we find that other peoples have lessons to teach us, too (more important ones than styles of basket weaving).

I agree.

Lisa Mc · « **Reply #24 on:** December 17, 2012, 04:59:40 PM »

I am on board! My book is on the way; by the 4th, I will have the first chapter read, and I will be in my armchair (or at my computer), in a quasi-scholarly frame of mind.

JoanK · « **Reply #25 on:** December 17, 2012, 05:01:29 PM »

Quasi-scholarly is good!

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #26 on:** December 17, 2012, 08:42:09 PM »

Love your glasses Lisa Mc so glad you will be joining the group - we are relaxed and post our impressions, questions, research, memories of similar experiences - we are more like a group sitting around a table with coffee or wine in hand chatting to each other - some post once a day and others several times during the day or night - JoanK is so right - quasi - with a small q - and an even smaller s for scholarly - we are just a curious bunch and books open the door for a pile of questions that we go about finding answers that adds to our understanding and enjoyment of a book - so if you like finding out more about what you are reading you will have a great time reading the adventures of Ryszard Kapuscinski.

Frybabe · « **Reply #27 on:** December 18, 2012, 09:18:20 AM »

You are right, there, Barb. I still have not ordered my book yet. I am waiting on a gift ecard that is slow in coming. Meanwhile, I looked into some of Mr. Kapuscinski's books. There are three others of his I would like to read, Shah of Shahs, The Emperor: Downfall of an Autocrat (Haile Sellasie), and Shadow of the Sun(African experiences). Many of his works have not yet been translated into English.

Jonathan · « **Reply #28 on:** December 18, 2012, 09:48:33 PM »

That's pronounced 'cwazy', isn't it. It sounds like just the right kind of scholarly tone in which to read this book. I'm going to keep that in mind. And we will all want you to move your armchair real close to your computer, Lisa Mc.

Let's have buttons made up to wear on our lapel. I AM A QUASI SCHOLAR.

Babi · « **Reply #29 on:** December 19, 2012, 09:29:51 AM »

I don't think the 'q' in quasi is long, JONATHAN, but I like your pronunciation much
better. More fun.

JoanK · « **Reply #30 on:** December 19, 2012, 03:21:52 PM »

That's definitely us!

JoanP · « **Reply #31 on:** December 21, 2012, 10:25:43 AM »

Welcome aboard, Lisa! We're looking forward to getting to know you.

Had any of you ever heard of Ryszard Kapuscinski or any of his work before this book was selected? Would it help to know more about him? How about Herodotus? I knew he is considered the Father of History...I had to memorize that many years ago. I also remember hearing him referred to as "Father of Lies." Don't really know what that's about - do you?

A message to all quazy-scholars:
Because the chapters of Travels are not numbered, and since those reading on Kindles/Nooks or Ipads do not have page numbers, the reading schedule in the heading will be designated by the chapter titles. So, the first discussion week will cover the the chapters up to, but not including Chinese Thought.

Discussion Schedule:

Jan. 4-10 - Crossing the Border up to Chinese Thought
Jan. 11-17- Chinese Thought up to Among Dead Kings
Jan. 18-24- Among Dead Kings up to Time Vanishes
Jan. 25-31- Time Vanishes to end of last chapter, We Stand in Darkness

Frybabe · « **Reply #32 on:** December 21, 2012, 10:40:03 AM »

What intriguing titles. I am still waiting on a gift cert for Amazon before purchasing the book. It is supposed to arrive today. This is one I want in a real book, not an ebook.

Jonathan · « **Reply #33 on:** December 21, 2012, 02:51:13 PM »

Herodotus, Father of Lies, what's that all about? Granted that he does tell some whoppers, eg, the mystery of the king's dwindling treasure, the accusation may just be professional jealousy on the part of other historians. Total accuracy in any book of history would be miraculous. Didn't Henry Ford once say that all history is bunk? Who could even write an honest personal history? Who would care to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

JoanK · « **Reply #34 on:** December 21, 2012, 04:34:40 PM »

He's supposed to be the first real historian. I have a book of selections by him, but have only read a few passages.

We'll find out all about him in "travels".

Babi · « **Reply #35 on:** December 22, 2012, 09:04:25 AM »

JOAN, my reference on ancient historians explains that Herodotus reported not
only what he saw, but also rumors he had heard. Some of them were pretty wild, but he did identify those things that were hearsay.

Frybabe · « **Reply #36 on:** December 22, 2012, 10:50:07 AM »

Livy did the same thing, Babi. What I like about Livy is that he usually said whether his source was solid or heresay, passed on stories that couldn't be corroborated. Occasionally, he would include severa versions of the same event.

JoanK · « **Reply #37 on:** December 22, 2012, 01:47:50 PM »

You'll see, some of his stories are pretty wild! Of course they're history, so can't all be things he saw himself. I never thought he was making them up, just more credulous than we would be today. Remember, this was a time when Homer was taken as history, with all his gods and goddesses.

I always wondered at what point Herototus put in that caveat, that he didn't know it was true.

Jonathan · « **Reply #38 on:** December 22, 2012, 04:11:17 PM »

True or false, Herodotus leaves the reader with much to wonder at and about. And what big shoes for anyone following in his footsteps. This should be fun.

Frybabe · « **Reply #39 on:** December 23, 2012, 07:30:50 AM »

Book is on order. Should have it Thurs or Fri.

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Author Topic: Travels with Herodotus by Ryszard Kapuscinski (Read 49087 times)