End of Your Life Book Club, The ~ by William Schwalbe - March Book Club Online

[JoanP]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

The End of Your Life Book Club
Will Schwalbe

“That’s one of the things that books do. They help us talk. But they also give us something we all can talk about when we don’t want to talk about ourselves. ”Will Schwalbe In The End of Your Life Book Club, Will and Mary Anne Schwalbe share their hopes and concerns with each other—and rediscover their lives—through their favorite books. Afghanistan Center at Kabul University Mary Anne Schwalbe

Discussion Schedule:
March 1 - 8 --  to page 83 (end of The Hobbit)
March 8 - 15 -- to page 169 (end of The Painted Veil)
March 15 - 22 -- to page 249 (end of Girls Like Us)
March 23 - 31 -- to page 329 (finish)

For Your Consideration
March 1 - 8 --  to page 83 (end of The Hobbit)

To think of throughout: When he describes a book, have you read it?  If yes, how does your take on the book compare with his?  If no, does this make you want to read it?

1.   Do you ever use talking about a book as a tool for indirectly discussing a problem with someone?  Does it work?

2.  Do you agree with Will’s statement – “You can no longer assume that anyone is reading anything”?

3   Do you have a favorite first line, or a first line that you always remember?  Or any one line that has special meaning for you?

4.  What do you think of Mary Anne’s habit of always reading the end of the book first?  Do you ever do that?

5. In making difficult decisions, choose “ the road with the exit ramp”.  Is this a good strategy?  Do you do it this way?

6.   “...favorite books stay with you for your entire life, no matter how long it’s been since you turned the last page.”  Do you have books like that?

7. Of J.R.R. Tolkien and C. S. Lewis: “Everyone seems to like one or the other” not both.  Is this true of you?  Which one do you like?

8. What do you think of “benign neglect" as a method of child-rearing?

Related Links::Pre-Discussion Comments; Will Schwalbe Interview; Women's Refugee Commission

DISCUSSION LEADERS: Pedln &  PatH

[pedln]

Welcome to SeniorLearn’s discussion of The End of Your Life Book Club, a book that is a son’s tribute to his mother.  For me it’s also like a biography as we get to know both the author and his mother, through the books they read and what they say about them.

My local newspaper has really dumb obituaries.  Born, married so and so, died, survived by, preceded in death by his parents – always preceded by parents, no matter what age. A cardboard individual .

And yet, I’ve  read fascinating obits in other newspapers and often think, “Gee, I wish I’d known him (or her).”  And that’s much the way I’ve felt while reading The End of Your Life Book Club.  Mary Anne Schwalbe.  Such an amazing woman.  One who reached out to many and accomplished much.    My first thoughts after starting this book were “Why didn’t I know of her before?”  What are your first thoughts about this book?

[PatH]

At last we can get going.  What a remarkable family.  What a remarkable book.  What’s your strongest impression to start with?  This book hits home to me in all sorts of ways, can’t wait to see what the rest of you think.

[CallieOK]

Thank you for the picture of Mary Ann Schwalbe.  She looks exactly as I expected!

I have no experience dealing with prolonged deaths so that part of the story isn't "hitting" me - but I am enjoying the author's comments on his Mother's life as well as his own.

[mabel1015j]

I was sitting in a doctor's waiting room when i started the book and i thought "Wow, what an interesting family." And then, he reminded me of John O'Hara. I liked his books when i was in high school and college, but i have not read Appt in S. i'm going to pick that up at the library. I started reading O'Hara after seeing the movie From the Terrace.  I'm sure it had nothing to do with Paul Newman being in the movie!  . I also remember Joanne Woodward having a great wardrobe, probably by Edith Head.

I  have a feeling all of our tbr lists are going to expand by the end of March.

I don't recall using a book to start a conversation, but i know that i have referenced many books in conversations. Most recently i have often recommended "Song of the Gorilla Nation", which is the memoir of an adult woman who has autism. She dropped out of high school because she just couldn't handle the stimulation. She would go to the zoo and watched the gorillas interacting and learned some clues in how respond to others by watching the gorillas interacting.  The gorilla keeper saw her, allowed her to volunteer w/ the gorillas, encouraged her to go to college and when she wrote the book she has a Phd in English and is a college professor.

No, i would never read the end of the book first. For me there wld then be no point in reading the book.
Jean

[marjifay]

Hi,

I'll be reading your posts and will enjoy your talk about the various books you've read.

I agree with you Ella, about being irratated with the euphemism "passed" instead of "died."
Perhaps "expired" would be a better word for a book club group that reads lots of library books. LOL

Marj

[PatH]

Yes, all of our TBR lists are about to grow.  I've somehow missed out on John O'Hara, and that makes two of you who like him, so maybe I'd better give him a try.  And The Etiquette of Illness is on hold for me at the library.

[mabel1015j]

Pat, i wld describe O'Hara as a slightly sophisticated 1950s soap-opera-in-a-book/movie.  

A well-written book/movie. If you hv netflex add From the Terrace to your list. What was the other movie from his books? I'll check it out............

Ten North Frederick!!! That was the one i was thinking of, but there's also Butterfeld Eight and Pal Joey which we all probably saw in the movies.

Jean

[mabel1015j]

Wikipedia site for John O'Hara: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_O'Hara

Novels
Appointment in Samarra (1934)
BUtterfield 8 (1935)
Hope of Heaven (1938)
Pal Joey (1940)
A Rage to Live (1949)
The Farmers Hotel (1951)
Ten North Frederick (1955) —winner of the National Book Award for Fiction[7]
A Family Party (1956)
From the Terrace (1958)
Ourselves to Know (1960)
The Big Laugh (1962)
Elizabeth Appleton (1963)
The Lockwood Concern (1965)
The Instrument (1967)
Lovey Childs: A Philadelphian's Story (1969)
The Ewings (1970)
The Second Ewings (1972)

There are also many short stories if you are a fan of those.

[Jonathan]

Question 3. Do you have a favorite first line?

I do like the author's first line: 'We were nuts about the mocha in the waiting room at the Memorial Sloan-Kettering's outpatient care center.

I can imagine all of New York dropping in for a cup since the book came out. I wonder how many are leaving their own, favorite book behind for anyone interested. Have they done anything, I wonder, about the bad coffee and even worse hot chocolate? I doubt it. Better not to meddle with the mood that's been established.

Of course Mary Anne was curious about the ending. It shows her character. One can sense her wondering: what can we do about it?

[BarbStAubrey]

I'll try to peek in but I could not finish our last months selection with my time being gobbled up - everything takes me longer then it used to - but I am fascinated by this story.

[marjifay]

"The small boys came early to the hanging."  (from Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett)

Marj

[pedln]

Barbara, please do come peek in and join us whenever you can.  With all these books there is much to talk about, and this book itself is easy to pick up and read, put down, and pick up again.

Jonathan, I’m so glad you mentioned first lines.  I haven’t paid much attention them, but I think that is likely to change.  When I was with the high school library one of the English teachers would give her students  frequent “Mindstretchers” to be answered in the library and one of  the favorites dealt with first lines.  The only one I can remember is something like  “Happy families are all alike, but unhappy ones are different, each in their own way.”  It’s Tolstoy, but I’m not sure which book.

You have just sent me to the bookshelf where I find this first line from a book that Ginny has recently read and talked about in Fiction --  “The letter that would change everything arrived on a Tuesday.”  And that is from The Unlikely Pilgrimage of Harold Fry.

Jean, thanks for listing the John O’Hara books/films.  I’ve just added From the Terrace to my Nlx queue.  Nlx doesn’t seem to have any of his other film, nor does Amazon.  I think I’ve seen Ten North Frederick  (Spencer Tracy) at some point, but may have it confused with  The Man in the Grey Flannel Suit.  But anyway, like PatH, I’m going to have to give O’Hara try.

I was shocked at this morning’s news about Babi’s death, but am grateful that she wasn’t lingering and was able to be with us almost to the end.  We were roommates at the 2002 SeniorNet get-together in DC, and I’m grateful that I had the opportunity to get to know her, then and through the years here at SeniorLearn.

[CallieOK]

The "first line" I remember best certainly isn't from a book I ever read! In fact, I don't even remember the title or author.
In the early 1980's,  I worked part-time as a Page at our public library.  One of my duties was to help shelve the paperback romances and we Pages used to laugh at the pictures on the covers, as well as some of the texts.  The comments here reminded me of a First Line that sent us all into stitches:
"The rats of panic scampered through her breast."

(Picture it!!!)

[PatH]

I think we're all kind of numb today.  I'm having trouble settling to anything.

First lines: there's always "Call me Ishmael" (Moby-Dick).

I make it a point not to read the end of a book ahead of time, but there are some occasions where I do.  Sometimes I get impatient with a book and see I'm unlikely to finish it; then maybe I'll read the end.  And sometimes that inspires me to go back and read the middle.  And very rarely, I can't stand to wait and peek ahead, but not very often.

[PatH]

Callie 

[CallieOK]

PatH,  I do the same thing re: jumping ahead to read the ending.   There are books that get so bogged down with descriptions that I skip to the ending rather than slog through the details, metaphors and similies.

[mabel1015j]

Callie - i can see why you can't forget that line.

Altho, i don't think it would make me want to read the book!

One of my top five books, Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy starts, "My wound is geography. It is my anchorage, my port of call." and i had noted in the book, "Everybody?" meaning, " is that true for everybody." I think i did that for a book group i was reading it for. It was certainly true for me.

[marcie]

LOL, Callie. That is a first line that's difficult to picture! I also have to laugh at many book covers. Many times covers of science fiction books have little to do with the book... more like a teen boy's vision of the book  

I came back from the library this afternoon with a surprise. I was about 70 on the "hold" list for THE END OF YOUR LIFE BOOK CLUB but as I was browsing the featured books in the lobby, I found a "walk in" copy of the book! I'll now be able to read it and join you all for the start of this discussion.

[Ella Gibbons]

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times."

What book?   I should know that, but I have that first line in my head.

I picked up the book yesterday, but then somehow I got disconnected from it - I will definitely read some pages tonight. 

DEAR BABI!   We will always miss you in our discussions. 

A few months ago, I moved into a "retirement home."     I am surrounded when I leave my apartment by folks on walkers, folks who walk slowly, awkwardly;  I wish there was some way of addressing them,  something to say when I pass them other than "How are YOu?"   and invariably the answer - "Just fine" - and I know darn well they are not.   And there are the younger ones also who stride along as I used to do.

My sweet neighbor, the one with cancer, has a port for the chemo, she showed it to me, she's quite frank about her condition and willing to talk about it.  I admire her very much, she's on her second round of this stuff and was just about to refuse it, but..........

There are many reviews, articles about CROSSING TO SAFEY by Stegner, the first book discussed by mother/son:  Here are two:

http://www.litlovers.com/reading-guides/13-fiction/230-crossing-to-safety-stegner?start=1

http://blogcritics.org/books/article/book-review-crossing-to-safety-by/

 

[Ella Gibbons]

Thanks for the pictures in the heading.    What a lovely smile Maryanne has.

[Ella Gibbons]

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.
Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities

[PatH]

What a lovely smile Maryanne has.

Doesn't she?  She looks just like one would think.

[PatH]

In Chapter 2, Appointment in Samarra, Will learns of his mother's cancer while he's at a book fair in Frankfort.  He feels guilty for being off somewhere where he can't help, and thinks of W. H. Auden's poem Musee des Beaux Arts; it's about Brurghel's painting The Fall of Icarus, and talks about how disasters happen while other people are going about their own business and not caring very much.  Here's the whole poem, with the picture.  Click on the picture to make it bigger.

http://english.emory.edu/classes/paintings&poems/auden.html

Where's Icarus?  He's in the lower right corner, a pair of legs disappearing into the water.

[pedln]

Marcie, so glad you got a copy of the book.  But what is a “walk in” copy?

Ella, thanks for the links to Crossing to Safety.  That’s the only Stegner book I’ve read, years ago, and I don’t remember much other than it was a story of friendship and one of the characters got polio. But I do remember exactly where and when I bought it over 22 years ago.   How interesting about Wallace Stegner – did you see his list of students listed in the LitLovers link?.  That link will be useful to us during this discussion.

How devastating for Will to be in Germany when he receives news of Mary Anne’s diagnosis.  One wishes that Mary Anne had not called him, but Will, no doubt, would have called at some point to ask about it.  Sharp eyes there, PatH, to spot the legs of Icarus.  It’s interesting to see the connectivity (?) between artist(s) and poet(s)

All the first lines here – fascinating .    .     . and Callie, unforgetable.  

[JoanP]

Thanks for the link to Brueghel's painting, Pat - must add I appreciated the little magnifying glass AND your hint as to where to find Icarus.

What a terrible way for this son to discover that his mother's cancer has spread.  And instead of bemoaning the fact, she tells him to bring her a wonderful book - he does - Broughtman's Savage Detectives.  I've never heard of the book, or the author - not sure I'd like it.  Mom had read Michael Thomas' American Dream .  (I've never heard of either book, or author, have you?  Not sure I want to read them just yet - "both about disappointment."   But this was how the little book club got started, the first books they read and discussed together after the diagnosis.  

I'm going to admit, I was a intimidated when first reading about this family.  They ALL seem bigger than life.  I thought they would be "regular people" - like me and my son maybe.  Mary Anne Shwalbe, a director of Admissions at Harvard,  heading endless organizations - building a library in Afghanistan...and the son, Head of a big publishing house.
 
Like fiction, isn't it?  I have just finished Wallace Stegnar's Crossing to Safety. - Could not put it down!  This was fiction - Pedln, yes, about friendship - one of the characters had polio has a young mother, but the story was really about a  strong-willed woman with the same diagosis as Mary Anne Schwalbe.
 Will writes of his mother - "Mom always felt compelled to go ahead with any plan she'd made, whether she was feeling up to it or not."
He's describing Stegnar's Charity Lang to a tee. A wonderful book,  compelling and beautifully written.  If you haven't read it, I recommend it - highly.

Mabel - I think of John O'Hara in terms of his movies - as you say, a soap-opera in a book/movie.  Have you read his books?  Well written - or well-scripted? Should we read him - or are his movies enough?


 

[pedln]

Thinking about question 1 –

1.   Do you ever use talking about a book as a tool for indirectly discussing a problem with someone?  Does it work?

Did we not, at one time, call this Biblio-therapy?  I don’t think I’ve ever really used this technique with another person to solve either his/her or my problems, but I’ve sometimes found solutions to my concerns in my own personal reading.  Back in the 1970’s there was a rash of self-help books published.  One title in particular sticks –I May Not Be Much, Baby, But I’m All I Got.  A friend and I were  both going through some upheavals in our lives at that time.  She was reading every self-help book she could get her hands on.  I could not see the appeal there, but found comfort in  books, mostly fiction, in the characters I met there.

And then there is the compliment from one of my kids that I treasure to this day.  My young daughter was reading Mr. and Mrs. Bo-Jo Jones, the first “teen-pregnancy” book ever allowed to walk off the shelf. She was describing the parents. This one’s mother was an alcoholic, this one’s mother was a druggie,”you’re like so and so’s mother.”  “Oh, dear.”  “You’re normal.”

[mabel1015j]

Joan - i definitely liked O'Hara's books when i was young. I don't know how i'd critique them today After 30 or 40 more years of life experience, i may have a different take on the story. But, as i recall, the writing was excellent and he did win awards, and got the attention of Hollywood.

Jean

[marcie]

I'm just starting to read the book so I'll comment later but, to respond to your question, Pedln, a "walk-in" copy is a copy of a book that the library sets aside to be available for anyone to check out. The rest of the copies are subject to "holds" that people place on them.

[Ella Gibbons]

I must admit I haven't read any of the books that have been mentioned so far in the book; have not read CROSSING TO SAFETY (but JoanP's recommendation is nudging me) or John O'Hara.  I did like the epigram (I always forget that word when I need it in a book discussion) - Maugham's parable wherein the Speaker is Death.  What to make of it?

And even more difficult to understand or apply:  "Permanent is not; impermanent is not,; a self is not; not a self (is not); clean is not; not clean is not; happy is not; suffering is not."  - pg.29

You read that one time and it makes no sense whatsoever, read it 3-4 something permanates, but I couldn't explain it.

I agree with all of you that it incomprehensible that Mary Anne would tell her son of her cancer when he was overseas at a convention.  Strange, but, perhaps, it might have been easier?'

My oldest sister died of pancreatic cancer; it is very hard to diagnose and actually she didn't know what her trouble was until she was told she had a couple of weeks to live.   She died in two days.   No chemo, no radiation, just a lot of pain and her refusal to go to a specialist or the hospital until the end.

And although it is very understated, we know the son is a homosexual and possibly the daughter. 

Do we know what year this happened?  I have not finished our assigned pages yet but will tomorrow. Am so enjoying everyone's comments. 

[Ella Gibbons]

Using books as a tool in discussing - I wish I were that witty.  I admire those who do!

I not only "assume" people  are reading, I know they are.  I see them at the libraries, my library is building a new branch, putting on an addition to our Main Library downtown.  And I go in the daytime when the crowds are not there.

And think of the popularity of Amazon and B&N online!  Although I deplore the fact that Amazon has now grown into a department store.

And I would never, never read the end of a book first.  However, if the book is very boring or I'm tired of it I might, out of curiousity and just to rid myself of the thing, I may go to the end to see if the author can polish it up a bit.

[PatH]

Ella, I haven't read any of the books we've mentioned so far, but have read some that we are about to get to in this chunk.  The appendix lists about 150 books mentioned, and I've read about a third of them.  I have a lot of trouble even beginning to approach the Buddhist philosophy.  It's based on ridding yourself of attachment to the things of this world, and I'm still too bound up with what seems to me to be the richness of the fabric of life as it is, and the emotional attachments.  A Buddhist would say I have a long way to go.

It becomes quite clear later that Will and his sister are homosexual, and in stable, happy relationships.  Don't know about the other son.

The Schwalbe family dynamics are a lot like in my family, so somehow I didn't even think of it as surprising that Mary Anne would break the news in this way.

Mary Anne was diagnosed in 2007.

[pedln]

Here is a list of books mentioned and discussed from the first five chapters.  Authors are also listed for those titles that received more than just a cursory mention.

Books Mentioned and Discussed

Crossing to Safety – Wallace Stegner

Appointment in Samarra – John O’Hara
Pillars of the Earth
A Prayer for Owen Meany
 Howard’s End
On Chesil Beach  -- Ian McEwan

Seventy Verses on Emptiness
The Diamond Cutter Sutra
The Savage Detectives – Roberto Bolano
 Man Gone Down – Michael Thomas
 A Thousand Splendid Suns – Hosseini
 The Kite Runner – Hosseini
The Etiquette of Illness --  Susan Halpern
 The Coldest Winter – David Halberstam

Marjorie Morningstar – Herman Wouk
 Gone With The Wind
 Death of a Salesman
 Caine Mutiny
Winds of War
 Billy Budd

The Hobbit – Tolkien
 The Story of Ferdinand – Munro Leaf
 Chitty Chitty Bang Bang
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
The Chronicles of Narnia – C.S. Lewis
Five Finger Exercise
The Caretaker
The Family of Man
Couples
Profiles in Courage
 Gulag Archipelago
 The Tin Drum
 The Autobiography of Malcolm X
 Fear of Flying
 Everything You Wanted to Know About Sex and Were Afraid to Ask
 Johnny Tremain
 Paul Revere and the World He Lived In – Esther Forbes
Where Eagles Dare
 Guns of Navarone
Puppet on a Chain
The Book of Common Prayer

For those of you with Kindles or Kindle apps, one of the books from the next chapter is available for free from Amazon:   Daily Strength for Daily Needs. Will refers to this title from time to time throughout the book.

          

       

         

[JoanP]

Pedln, I just checked - and found Daily Strength for Daily Needs - free on my iPad and look forward to the next section - to see if Mary Anne uses this little book for comfort and inspiration. Thanks.

I'd just read the passage in which the young woman asks Mary Anne and Will if she'd like "to participate in a survey about the spiritual health and support systems for people undergoing treatment for cancer that has spread to other organs or throughout the body, Stage Four cancers."

After she asked a number of questions regarding Mary Anne 's spirituality - and left, Mary Anne tells Will she learned something interesting -  that she had stage four cancer!  He had assumed she must know. It's all so new to her.  It must be hard hearing these words, realizing they are describing YOU.

Ella, I am sorry about your sister - a blessing that she didn't suffer for long.
...the lines you quoted I explained to myself - nothing is permanent ...nothing is as it seems at the moment.  So just accept that - and move on...

[pedln]

Ella, I’m also having great trouble with those Seventy Verses On Emptiness.  But I don’t think we’re alone, as both Will and Mary Anne found them somewhat confusing as well.

I like Will’s description of his family as an airline, with his mother being the hub, organizing, arranging, and managing all the activities of the spokes that stem from it.  A very busy family indeed, with lots of contacts, many friends, one that reaches out to others, Mary Anne especially. People came first.  Family was most important.  I think Will was simply following Mary Anne’s examples when he sought out his sixteen-year-old nephew to be in the picture with  his grandmother and the other younger children.

Question here – Douglas Schwalbe, the father, worked with or managed the Theatre at Harvard, but what brought the family back to New York?  Something about the father’s job?

Will’s brother Doug is married to Nancy and they have three children.  Doug is a film producer?

..the lines you quoted I explained to myself - nothing is permanent ...nothing is as it seems at the moment.  So just accept that - and move on...

Thanks for that, JoanP.  A good explanation.  Much of the same philosophy is found in Daily Strength.

[ANNIE]

I am enjoying all of your comments but have only read 34 pages.   Spent yesterday in shock over our Babi.  She was such a special lady and brought such interesting ways of thinking about the topic of the day. She will be sadly missed by all of us.  I remember her being at the 2002 national Book Festival with our then SN book group.
Well onto our book.  I am with Ella on first lines from Dicken's. "Tale of Two Cities".  One hears those first lines quoted often.
On reading the end of the book first. Naaaah!  Not my style. When I put down a book that I don't like, I don't really care how it ends! 
"An Appointment in Samarra"  sounds enticing.  John O'Hara is an author that I remember reading or seeing the movies of several of his books but that was long ago.  Jean has described them perfectly!

[hats]

BABI died? Just happened to come by to check out the new group read. I am terribly shocked and very sad. She always gave wonderful thoughts during a discussion. Condolences to her family and friends.

[PatH]

Hats, there is a memorial page to Babi here:

http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=3747.0

if you want to read what people are saying, or post a comment.

[pedln]

Annie and Hats, welcome.  Now that you are here, I hope you’ll both stay

I’ve been wanting to set up a timeline that includes  all of Mary Anne’s accomplishments, but I just found this link and think it does a great job.  It’s a slide show, can be made automatic – up to you, I found full screen without automatic worked best for me.

Time-Line

A Mother’s Day NYT article by Will Schwalbe, seems like a short annotation with sections from various chapters of the book.  Good review, good if you don’t have the book.

Reading Together Knowing the Ending

[Ella Gibbons]

What an interesting TIMELINE - thanks for that, Pedlin.  That's a very different way to set up a memorial for someone; Mary Anne certainly accomplished much in her lifetime.  How busy she must have been and with three children.  

Nothing changes, we do.
There's nothing new under the sun

And we could go and on with the permanent/impermanent phrasing.

HELLO HATS!!   Good to see you here, STAY!

I went to the back of the book to look at the books mentioned.  I recognize most of the authors, have perhaps read a fourth of the books.  What treasure there is in books; how fortunate the reader.