Moonstone, The by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online

[BooksAdmin]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

Please post below if you can join us on APRIL 15!

The Moonstone
by Wilkie Collins

T.S. Eliot called The Moonstone "the first and greatest English detective novel." Told from the standpoint of several, very different, very British characters, it is the funny, irreverent, dramatic, romantic, very British story of the theft of an Indian jewel taken from the eye of an idol and then stolen again from a very British country house by mysterious Indians. Come and join us: I'll bet you can't guess "whodunit" and what they did!    Discussion Schedule: April 15 --  OPENING DAY Related Links:: Gutenberg electronic text DISCUSSION LEADERS: JoanK &  PatH

[PatH]

Welcome to The Moonstone, everyone.  I’m glad it got chosen;  I love this book, even have to get a new copy for the discussion because my old one is falling apart.  It’s amusing, charming, and a good yarn, with a few social issues lurking in the background.

 We won’t start until April 15th, which will give everyone time to get the book, get started, and even do their income tax.  It should be easy to find.  It’s online, available for Kindle, Dover has a cheap paperback, and libraries should have it.  My library system has 26 copies, only 3 of them checked out.

Come in and say hi, tell us if you’ll join in.

[Frybabe]

I'll be here.

[PatH]

That's great, Frybabe!  Welcome.

[JoanK]

I'm so excited that we're going to be discussing one of my favorite books. Even if you're not a mystery fan, there's something in here for everyone: humor, romance, social commentary, women's issues, even a bit of philosophy and science.

Welcome, Frybabe!

The rest of you, join us. You won't be sorry!

[BarbStAubrey]

was this a 1930s movie - the plot reminds me of something I saw as a kid

[JoanP]

I wouldn't be at all surprised, Barb - Wilkie Collins' novels were/are so easily adapted to stage and film.  I'm remembering our discussion years ago of his Woman in White.  A few years ago it was playing on the London stage and I'm sure there have been several film adaptations. 

So, The Moonstone is considered the first detective mystery novel.  Learned something new.  I associated Poe with this - but I guess he wrote the first mystery novella - and so the honor goes to Wilkie.  If Poe had written just a few more chapters...

Oh, I came in to say I wouldn't want to miss this one.  I'm in!

[PatH]

WELCOME Barb and JoanP.  It's great to have you with us.


Yes, Barb, turns out there was a 1934 movie--here's the link toIMDB.  They seem to have messed with the plot a fair bit.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0025515/?ref_=fn_tt_tt_2

It's been done a number of times--starting with a 1903 short silent film.  There are several TV series, and a couple more movies.

JoanP, people quibble over what is the first detective mystery novel, but The Moonstone is the front-runner.

[PatH]

Barb's comment reminds me of something important.  This is a mystery story, and some of us haven't read it, so those of us who have, or who quickly finish it, are going to have to be very careful not to give anything away.  It would be a shame to spoil the surprises for anyone.

[Frybabe]

You just know that I'm going to try to get to the bottom of the Poe vs Collins thoughts on who invented the detective novel. So far, from checking out Wikipedia, that Poe predated Collins. Poe, according to Wiki, is credited with inventing the "detective fiction genre", while it says that The Moonstone is "considered a precursor to detective fiction", and "Viewed by many to represent the advent of the detective story within the tradition of the English novel." 

[JoanK]

WELCOME BARB AND JOANP!

It looks like Poe is older, but he wrote short stories. Collins wrote a novel. And he predates the Dickens novel that we have already read, as well as Sherlock holmes.

Do I have this right?

[JoanK]

Note: kindle has the book for free. They also have a works of Wilkie collins for $1.99. I invested that huge sum, but I can't find an interactive table of contents. So I don't recommend it.

[JudeS]

I will be happy to join you. Looking forward to reading this book with you and hearing all your erudite opinions.
Mostly glad that this is not a too serious novel and there will be a light touch to our discussion.

[Frybabe]

Yes, JoanK, you are right. I am not sure to which Dickens book you are referring, The Mystery of Edwin Drood most likely since that was in the works when he died in 1870. The Moonstone was published in 1868.  Dickens and Collins were pretty close to being life long friends. They collaborated on several endeavors, Dickens acting company performed some of Collins' plays, and published a number of Collins stories in his journals. It wouldn't surprise me if they influenced each other in their writings.

I never thought of any of Poe's works as detective fiction, but after looking into it, I discovered that never read any of his C. Auguste Dupin detective stories, including The Murders in the Rue Morgue. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle cited Poe's detective stories as "a root from which a whole literature has developed.... Where was the detective story until Poe breathed the breath of life into it?" Poe's influence was such that the Edgar Awards is named after him. His only full length novel was a work of early science fiction (also a surprise to me).

[marcie]

What interesting information about Poe and Collins and their contributions to "detective" fiction. I'm looking forward to talking about The Moonstone with all of you.

[PatH]

JudeS and Marcie, it's good to have you on board.  We're getting a nice lively bunch here.

[PatH]

Edwin Drood, which we read here, was written after The Moonstone, but Bleak House, which we read here recently, was written in 1853. Bleak House contains a complete murder mystery with a detective (Inspector Bucket), but it's a subplot, making up only a fraction of the book.  So you can make the first by your definition: detective story, detective novel, purely a detective novel (and nothing else).  In Bleak House, Inspector Bucket's wife plays a significant role in solving the murder.

Poe's novel, The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym of Nantucket is more fantasy than sci fi, and very strange indeed.  I haven't read it, but it's referred to in H. P. Lovecraft's At The Mountains of Madness; the strange cry of Poe's apparition is used as the final touch of horror.  It didn't work for me, most of Lovecraft's horror doesn't.

[JoanK]

Yeah, JUDE and MARCIE. This should be a great discussion!

[Tomereader1]

I will follow the discussion.  Can't guarantee I'll post anything.  I did get the free Kindle version.

[PatH]

It's good to have you with us, Tomereader.  Say hi to us occasionally so we know you're still there.

[Scottieluvr]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post and my first day on this site.

I would love to join in the April/May discussion of Moonstone.  I downloaded my copy from Gutenberg Project several months ago. Thank you for the invite.

[Frybabe]

Welcome, Scottieluvr.

[PatH]

Welcome, Scottieluver.  It's great to have a new friend here.  Do you want us to call you Scottieluvr or Pamela?

Since this is your first discussion, here's how it works: this is the pre-discussion, where we sign up, and talk about background stuff if we feel like it.  It gives everyone time to get hold of the book and start reading.  We'll get down to the actual discussion on April 15.  We divide the book up into sections and talk about one section a week; a schedule will be posted.  We try not to talk about anything ahead of schedule, but can go back if we want.

Have you read The Moonstone before?  If not, I recommend not reading the whole book ahead of time.  It can be fun to share your reaction as you read it for the first time.  Also, this is a mystery, with a lot of plot twists and turns, and it's harder than you would think not to give anything away.  No surprises for me; I've read the book at least four times.

[JoanP]

Welcome Scottieluver! This is getting exciting - the more the merrier, don't you think?   Almost as exciting as gathering for a Dickens' novel. I always associate Wilkie with Dickens - Dickens was a mentor of a kind, wasn't he?    DIckens published The Moonstone in installments in his magazine, "All the Year Round."  One of the Collins' family, was it Wilkie's younger brother - married DIckens' youngest daughter.  That makes them family - though I don't think CD was happy about this arrangement.  

Tomereader, I intend to read the chapters as if they are weekly installments - and wait breathlessly for the next as Collins' readers did!  I'm going to admit that the opening installment in which we learn the history of the moonstone can be wordy, but as PatH says - the information is important and the story really picks up after that  when the time period changes.  You'll be glad to know the magazine lost no subrcribers...we hope you stay with us!

[BarbStAubrey]

Welcome Scottieluver! So glad you found us -

I too downloaded the free copy available on Kindle - I remember reading this years and years ago - maybe as many as 50 - golly I cannot believe I am writing that number and still I would not be a young woman 50 years ago - sheesh - but like many reads from earlier in my life, times have changed and my values have changed so it will be an interesting re-read of a nineteenth century story.

[marcie]

Welcome, Scottieluver. This should be a great "first" discussion with us. We've got a good group to talk about The Moonstone. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

[JoanK]

WELCOME, WELCOME SCOTTYLUVER! Pull up a chair. What kind of books do you like (or is that like asking me what kind of chocolate do you like?)

[Scottieluvr]

WOW!  I have a lot of catching up to do here… 

JudeS: Hello!

Tomereader1: Hello!

Marcie: Hello!

Frybabe: Hello!  Fascinating Wiki information you shared. So it confirms that Poe is the “Father of Detective Fiction” as a genre, while Collins is Father of Detective Fiction Novels – again fascinating. And your additional trivia is enlightening too. I never knew the Edgar Awards were named after him.

PatH:  Hello! Oh, call me anything, Pamela or Scottieluvr. Just don’t call me late for this discussion.    Thank you for the summary of how things are done, I haven’t searched the sight yet to learn all the inner workings here. Waiting until April 15th to begin the read and discussion allows me to clear time on my plate for this commitment.

I’ve not read the book yet, why discovering your club’s choosing it for discussion attracted me. The only thing I do know about the book is: (1) it’s a classic and (2) its touted as the 1st written murder mystery. Loved the film noir you provided too, I was raised on 1930-50’s movies. Love ‘em.

JoanP: Hello! That was a nice piece of trivia you shared: Charles Dickens and Wilkie Collins related through a family marriage. Also Charles Dickens published Collins’ story in his newspaper, right?

BarbStAubrey: Hello! I’ve never indulged in reading classic writings until now.  Maybe associated to my turning 50 years old last September? 

JoanK: Hello!  I enjoy most genres, but favor Mystery Noir, Steampunk, Historical Romance and everything with Humor.  However, I love discovering new authors the most. BTW, I love dark chocolate, but will choose theater popcorn over chocolate any day.

[kidsal]

Have the book and started reading.  Finally broke down and bought a Kindle -- lots of free classics so list of "to read" is growing substantially.

[PatH]

Yes, but your TBR pile isn't getting physically higher.

Welcome, Kidsal, it's good to have you here.  If you can manage it, only read about 1/5 of the book now, keep up the suspense as we go along.

[JoanK]

How about popcorn dipped in chocolate?

Which reminds me, we haven't chosen a snack to eat while we sit around and read. What do the English eat for tea in India?

[JoanK]

Confusingly, the Mystery Timeline says that the mystery story as we know it didn't emerge until Poe, but the Moonstone "is considered by some to be the first true English detective novel." We seem to be bogged down in some terminology distinction here. Or maybe we've stepped into a turf war ( the Poe-ians versus the Collinites at 10 paces!) Shall we join in or sit comfortably on the sidelines.

http://www.mysterynet.com/timeline/history-of-mystery/

Interesting that among early mystery writers, they also list Cicero, the Roman orator. He didn't write mysteries, but point to his detective-like arguements in some cases. In one case, he showed that the defendent had been framed by relatives who wanted to inherit his wealth.They say "Some say that in these cases and others like them lie the true beginnings of the public's unending fascination with mystery and crime."

A stretch. but it shows that detecting is timeless.

[Scottieluvr]

How about popcorn dipped in chocolate?

Which reminds me, we haven't chosen a snack to eat while we sit around and read. What do the English eat for tea in India?

Scones and Earl Grey tea?

As for chocolate covered popcorn?  Salty and sweet combinations are delicious... 

[Scottieluvr]

Have the book and started reading.  Finally broke down and bought a Kindle -- lots of free classics so list of "to read" is growing substantially.

Hello! Glad to have you join the group.  The more the merrier, I like to think. 

[Scottieluvr]

Confusingly, th Mystery Timeline says that the mystery story as we know it didn't emerge until Poe, but "the moonstone is considered the first detective novel.

http://www.mysterynet.com/timeline/history-of-mystery/

Interesting that among early mystery writer, they also list Cicero, the Roman orator. He didn't write mysteries, but they say that "

I love that web site you've cited; its bookmarked on all my computers. That site also introduced, to me, a female mystery writer of the 40-50's, Craig Rice. I'm not ready to buy any of her works because I haven't gotten to the library to investigate this new author further.  Sorry a bit off topic...  but I do find the web site valuable in information.

[JoanK]

Pamela: you came in while I was editing my post, trying to get the quotes right, which is why it cuts off like that.

Craig Rice wrote a mytery series with children as the detectives, which my sister and I gobbled up as children. I wonder what I would think of it now? Come on over to "the Mystery Corner" and discuss it.

http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=807.4960

By the way, this is a new site, so there aren't many posts. If you go into an existing site, don't think you have to read all the old posts or you'll never get through it. Just read the last couple and jump in!

[PatH]

Pamela, before we start saying things that confuse you, I should warn you that JoanK and I are sisters (twins in fact) so when one of us says "my sister" they mean the other.

The Craig Rice book we really liked was "Home Sweet Homicide", which involved three siblings, the oldest about thirteen, solving a mystery that involved their mother.  I have no idea what i would think of it now.

[Scottieluvr]

...( the Poe-ians versus the Collinites at 10 paces!) ...

   Seems where people gather causes must be taken up, one side against another. Guess it makes life [i.e., living] more interesting. 

[Scottieluvr]

Pamela, before we start saying things that confuse you, I should warn you that JoanK and I are sisters (twins in fact) so when one of us says "my sister" they mean the other.

I'm a twin as well, she's five minutes older. When we were younger who was oldest mattered...bet it doesn't now! *ROFLOL*

The Craig Rice book we really liked was "Home Sweet Homicide", which involved three siblings, the oldest about thirteen, solving a mystery that involved their mother.  I have no idea what i would think of it now.

I've never read this author's work... looking forward to the experience.  

[PatH]

Oh, good, a fellow twin.  JoanK is an hour and 45 minutes older than I, and we made a big deal of it in a joking way, but it never really mattered.  Joan is the more formidable intellectual presence, and I am the more practical one.