Good Earth, The ~ Pearl Buck ~ September Book Club Online

[JoanP]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

September Book Club Online  
 

The Good Earth by Pearl Buck

Interest in Pearl Buck's  The Good Earth, continues with the news that her never-before published, final novel is coming out in October, forty years after her death.  The Good Earth is the poignant tale of a farmer and his family in old agrarian China, a  depiction of traditional Chinese culture in the early twentieth century before World War II.  Some critics say it should move readers to rediscover Buck as a source of insight into both revolutionary China and the United States’ interactions with it. Let's discover together why The Good Earth remained on the bestseller list for 21 months in 1931 and 1932, and was awarded the Pulitzer Prize in 1932.l

Relevant Links:
the Good Earth Timeline ; Comprehensive Bio of Pearl Buck and her work ;

DISCUSSION SCHEDULE:
September 2-8	Chapters 1-8
September 9-15	Chapters 9-15
September 16-20	Chapters 16-21
September 21-25	Chapters 22-28
September 26-29	Chapters 29-34

Some Topics for Discussion
Sept. 26-29 ~ Chapters 29-34

1. Why did Wang Lung move his  family into the big Hwang House in town but keep the youngest son and his poor little fool with him on the land?  

2. T"he rich, never content, always wanting more." Is this true of Wang Lung? Is this what sets him apart?

3. "Like a swarm of locusts, the soldiers came - a horde of men - poured into his court like filthy water."  Is this how the "People's Revolution was viewed by the rich?

4. Why does Lotus insist that her delicate little Pear Blossom become the uncle's nephew's slave -  at Cuckoo's suggestion?  

5. Do you see a similarity between Wang Lung's feelings for his poor little  fool and Pear Blossom?  If so, why the night of passion?

6. "So Wang Lung sat, and so his age came on him day by day and year by year...Thus spring wore on again and again and vaguely and more vaguely as these years passed, he feels it coming..."  Does this sound like a man content with his final days, assured that his land will remain in the family?

7. What did the last sentence in the book signify?  Are you ready to pick up Sons - the next book of the trilogy?

Something to consider: How might this book have been different if written by a Chinese person - a Chinese man?

Contact:   JoanP  

[Jonathan]

There's no doubt in my mind that O-lan should be seen as the heroine in the book. And that Pearl B was trying to portray the sorry plight of women in The Good Earth, from infancy on. I wondered, too, JoanP, why O-lan wasn't kept alive to return to the Big House as its mistress. Her situation is heartbreaking throughout. Wang Lung acknowledges that himself in his strong feelings for O-lan. The doctor has found her deathly ill and has told Wang Lung so.

"Wang Lung went out with the doctor...and when he was gone, Wang Lung went into the dark kitchen where O-lan had lived her life for the most part, and where, now that she was not there, none would see him, and he turned his face to the blackened wall, and he wept." (end of Chapter 25)

We've been left guessing about her feelings all along. What a stoical creature! I agree with you, Bellamarie, there's something biblical about the book that raises it above fiction and story. I'm tempted to see a saga in it. A peasant saga. I believe Pearl B admitted that while she wrote in English, she was thinking in Chinese.

It boggles my mind to go from Buck's China to Austen's England.

[Jonathan]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the first clause of the new constitution following Mao's successful Peasant Revolt, provided for the right of women to get out of unhappy marriages. The right to a divorce.

[bellamarie]

Now that I have composed myself, and gotten through the tears of O-lan's death, I am ready to take on these chapters and make some sense out of what is going on.  Or at least attempt to.  As for O-lan being the heroine, as Dana and JoanP have suggested, yes, I can see her as just that, if indeed Pearl even intended a heroine at all.  I think there can be a heroine in a story, who dies, but yet lives on making her very existence of grave importance to the rest of the story and characters she touched.  

The idea of how much Lung's father loved O-lan just tore at my heartstrings.  Here Lung himself has never been able to truly be in love with his wife, who did everything for him, and he feels guilty at her death bed because he can not even muster up feelings that should come normal in this situation, yet his father is so very saddened of losing her, he then dies himself.  How O-lan must have felt seeing the guilt in his eyes.  Yes, she knew she was ugly, large feet, and rough, dark skin.  Yes, she knew she was a slave girl and felt just to be his wife and the mother of his children, was more than she could ever have expected or wanted, but as she lay dying, to see him come, and not even be able to express any love for her. was so very sad.

pg. "Well I know I  am ugly and can not be loved__"  When she said this Wang Lung could not bear it and he took her hand and he soothed it, a big hard hand, stiff as though it were dead already.  And he wondered and grieved at himself most of all because what she said was true, and even when he took her hand, desiring truly that she feel his tenderness towards her, he was ashamed because he could feel no tenderness, no melting of the heart such as Lotus could win from him with a pout of her lips.  When he took this stiff dying hand he did not love it, and even his pity was spoiled with repulsion towards it."

A heroine has many qualities deserving of the title, and as far as I am concerned,  O-lan possessed every quality possible as a heroine should.  She sacrificed her entire life to serving others.  In her dying days she made sure her eldest son was wed. I loved how she made sure every detail and custom was followed as she lay in her bed listening to it all.  I also loved how she kept her dignity to the end with this:
"There were times when O-lan woke to herself and to what was about her and once called for Cuckoo, and when in great astonishment Wang Lung summoned the woman, O-lan raised herself trembling upon her arm, and she said plainly enough, "Well, and you have lived in the courts of the Old Lord, and you were accounted beautiful, but I have been a man's wife and I have borne him sons, and you are still a slave."  "After I am dead that one nor her mistress neither is to come into my room or touch my things, and if they do, I will send my spirit back for a curse."  Then she fell into her fitfull sleep, and her head dropped upon the pillow.

As far as I am concerned she died with dignity, in spite of Lung, Cuckoo and Lotus robbing her of everything, including her pearls.  Indeed Lung should feel horrible for ever taking them from her. O-lan would not have been suited to live in the big house where she was treated so badly.  I can't even imagine her wishing to return to such a place that would trigger the memories. To many it represented, wealth, royalty and success.  O-lan lived in her very own castle, and was the queen of it in my eyes.  That house just may turn out to be the house of cards that comes crashing down.  Did you ever want something so badly, only to find once you have it, it is no longer what it seemed to be?  Can Lung earn redemption or respect in my eyes, now that O-lan has died?  Not in these chapters this week.

Have to run, so much to discuss in these chapters.

Jonathon, Yes, I suppose it would boggle the mind going from Wang Lung & O-lan, to Elizabeth and Mr. Darcey, but it worked for me...helped me giggle with their secret crush on each other even thinking... "Me thinks they both protest too much."  

Ciao for now~

[mabel1015j]

Joan, thanks for posting that quote. I read Conn's book at least 6 or 7 yrs ago so don't have the details in my head.

Jean

[JoanP]

I agree, there is much of interest in Peter Conn's "cultural biography," Jean. We are experiencing the revolution first-hand in the final chapters in The Good Earth.
 

'I have called this book a cultural biography, and I should explain what that term means. I have tried to situate Pearl Buck's career in the many contexts that are needed to understand her development and her significance. This has involved a continuous act of negotiation between her life and the social and political circumstances that surrounded her. Consequently, along with Buck's biography and writing, readers will find in these pages a good deal of information about both Chinese and American history and literature." Peter Conn

[JoanP]

There's no doubt in my mind that O-lan should be seen as the heroine in the book. And that Pearl B was trying to portray the sorry plight of women in The Good Earth, from infancy on.   Jonathan

I'm hesitating to go so far as to call Olan a "heroine"... so quiet, submissive.  It does take grit and determination to raise a family, to keep the household together, at any cost.    If that was Pearl B's intent - to "portray the sorry plight of women"  in China - and she used the character of Olan as an example of what life was like at the time, maybe as an example of the unhappy woman, Olan could be considered the novel's heroine.

  I sense she had other intentions - including this one - but something else she was trying to show.  The poverty to riches to poverty.  "The poor are poor until the rich get too rich" - remember that quote?  It seems that when the poor become rich, they become fat, idle and lose their values somewhere along the way.  (Though that did not happen to Olan, did it?) "That house just may turn out to be the house of cards that comes crashing down."  I can see that coming, Bellamarie.

What of Wang Lung?  Would you consider him a hero, if not a flawed hero, when his pride gets in the way.  What will become of him when he moves into the big house in town and rents out his land, leaving the good earth behind? The Good Earth is  the title Pearl B. chose for this book.  Can it be left behind?
I can see Wang Lung returning - but oh those sons!  What will become of them?

Dana- I just picked up a copy of Sons - the second of the Wang family trilogy.  The first sentence picks right up from where we end here.  Is anyone interested in continuing on with a group discussion of the next book?  I'm so curious about what will become of those sons...and Wang Lung too.

[salan]

I think the "downfall" of Wang Lung's house is because of the fact that he left "the good earth" and got away from his roots and values.  He let his wealth get in the way of training his sons to work and respect the good earth.  His family is in for a downfall and I am not sure if they have enough character to overcome it. 
Sally

[bellamarie]

JoanP, I would love to continue if others are willing to read Sons.  I had no idea another book picks up from this one. 

It's interesting how heroine and hero have been mentioned.  While I think I could see O-lan possess what I would consider qualities of a heroine, I personally never once even thought about a hero or heroine in this story.  I never even considered Pearl intending there to be one.  Not every story has a hero or heroine, and personally I don't see this story intending for there to be either one.  I in no way see Wang Lung as a hero. He has done nothing heroic in my view.  What he has done so far in this story has shown me he is a weak man.  He could not respect and honor his wife,  taking care of his family is normally what every man should do, rising from being poor to wealthy is not heroic because anyone who works hard and makes good decisions financially can accomplish this.  He submits to blackmail from his uncle and that wretched wife and nephew, rather than stand up to them because of his fear of losing his money and possessions.  That is not heroic.  So, nope, no hero in my eyes.

Do you think when Wang Lung moves into the great house he will stop caring for his land?  His land has always been in his heart and soul.  It will be interesting to see what happens when they move.

I found this very interesting as their customs:
pg. 195 :  Once she lay dead it seemed to Wang Lung that he could not bear to be near O-lan, and he called his uncle's wife to wash the body for burial, and when it was finished he would not go in again, but he allowed his uncle's wife and his eldest son and his daughter in law to lift the body form the bed and set it into the great coffin he bought.  But to comfort himself he busied himself in going to the town and calling men to seal the coffin according to custom and he went and found a geomancer and asked him for a lucky day for burials.  He found a good day three months hence and it was the first good day the geomancer could find, so Wang Lung paid the man and went to the temple in the town and he bargained with the abbot there and rented a space for a coffin for three months, and, there was O-lan's coffin brought to rest until the day of burial, for it seemed to Wang Lung he could not bear to have it under his eyes in the house.

Do you suppose he could not bear to have O-lan's coffin in the house because he treated her so badly that the guilt would overcome him.  Or that he feared her spirit returning to haunt him as she suggested.  He had no problem allowing his father's coffin to remain in the house until the burial day.

I also thought it interesting how white was the color of mourning. pg. 195  "and for his children, and their shoes were made of white cloth, which is the color of mourning, and about their ankles they bound bands of white cloth, and the women in the house bound their hair with white cords. 

Ciao for now~

[salan]

Bellamarie,
I don't think there is a hero or heroine in this story either.  I don't think Wang Lung was as despicable as you seem to feel that he was.  He did take care of his wife and children and even showed some feelings for "poor little fool".  He took care of her when he couldn't trust anyone else to do so.  I think we westerners tend to judge others by our standards and have a hard time understanding other cultures.  I don't condone his behavior; but think that in his own culture; he was considered an "honorable" man.  Olan had a much better life with him than she would have if she had not married.  Remember that she was willing to sell little fool back early in the story.
Sally

[ANNIE]

Salan,
I don't thing that O-lan was talking about selling "little fool".  I believe that when she mentioned selling a girl, it was the female half of the twins.  Anybody know?

Has no one mentioned that when Lung Wang planned O-lan's funeral he went to the Taoist priests and the priests from the Buddhist temple.  Was that the tradition of the Chinese at that time? And he paid them to chant all night before the ceremonies of the funeral.  It seems there was a very thin thread of religiosity throughout the lives of the Wang family.  The two small statues in the little temple were addressed when one was in need or when one was angry.  That seems to have been the extent of the Wang's religious feelings.  At one time he says, "I must  stick a little incense before those two  in the small temple.  After all, they have power over earth."
After looking back into the story, I think their gods were credited with all the good things and all the
bad things that happened but credited they were. 
I am not ready to place "hero or heroine" titles on any of the characters in this story or tale that PB as told us.  I do think she is one of the best story tellers of her time.  And that she had some reasons for telling her tales to us.  Her experience of living as a child in China, living as a young care giver and finally as a wife has been spread out for us to read in all of her books.  I do agree that women's rights or lack of them is shown in most of her stories.  She was a gift to the Chinese.  They cried in China when she died and "wondered who was going to save them". 

[bellamarie]

b]Sally[/b], I haven't gotten to the point of seeing Wang Lung's redemption or honor, just yet.  I agree, he did take care of his family, but I was pointing out his actions he has done, that would not make him a "hero" in my eyes.  Some of the things he has done I feel would be considered despicable by any culture or standard. And yes,  I am sure some in his culture does see him as honorable. Taking care of your family is expected, and any man worth the soil of the earth should do that.  It's all the rest of the things he did, and how he treated O-lan that has given me pause.  Even Wang Lung's father was disgraced by his actions.  Yes, O-lan did indeed have a better life being his wife than living as a slave.  But she deserved far better treatment than what he gave her.  She helped him earn all his wealth, and risked her life and the unborn baby's life by working all day in the fields along side him.  Yes, she was willing to sell one of their daughters, for the sake of the rest of her family, and she even killed the newborn. (Which I did not agree with) That showed us what sacrifices she was willing to make for Wang Lung and her family.  When the doctor was trying to swindle them for more money to save O-lan's life and the price was more than Lung wanted to pay, O-lan accepted she was not worth him and the family losing their wealth to save her life.  

You may be correct in saying by their culture his actions would be seen honorable, and I just may be measuring him by my own culture's measuring stick, but I would like to think I am measuring him by what every man/woman is expected by their Gods or mine.  This is why I feel Lung has turned away from their Gods, and yet he curses the Gods for anything that goes wrong. I don't know if he realizes his life is no longer in sync with who he was before his greed took over.  If and when that happens is when redemption and honor may be a possibility.  How or what could bring him to this enlightenment?  O-lan's and his father's death has not, his wretched uncle's family has not, if anything he pumps their pipes with opium behind their backs to keep them quiet.  Knowing Louts was tempting his son with the desires of his youthful needs did not awaken him, he just sent the son away. Floods and locusts, droughts and famine....still he curses the Gods.... so what will it take?

I am hoping that in the last chapters something will happen to bring Wang Lung back from this life of greed, but I'm thinking once bitten it's hard to turn away from all he has, if anything he wants more. He wants to be the LORD. The Gods, just may bring a wrath down on him.  I am anxious to see how life goes once they are all living in the great house.  It just may not be so great.  I am sensing old age may be his awakening....no one can stop age or  sickness which he has yet to deal with.

I said earlier this story reminds me of reading my Bible.......its like in the beginning God gave Adam his partner Eve,  (Wang Lung was given O-lan).  God gave them all they needed to live in the garden of Eden to be happy, (Wang Lung had good soil, harvests and plenty of silver and gold and his family) but Lucifer tempted them with the Apple, (greed and lust was Lung's temptation) and they disobeyed God, so they ate of the apple (Lung gave into the temptation of his lust & greed) and we all know where that led Adam and Eve, and we can all see where it is leading Wang Lung.  Wang Lung has indeed disobeyed their Gods and has not only has taken a bite of the apple, he wants the whole entire orchard, to be LORD of the great house! (just as Lucifer wanted God's position to reign over Heaven)  Money and greed is many a man's downfall.  Every person desires to have more and be successful in life, and I believe God provides us with knowledge, skills and means to accomplish such.  It's when we are never satisfied, and allow the power and greed to overcome us, and we begin turning away from our own moral values and God, that we then begin being unhappy, troubled and find ourselves no longer the person we were.  

While I know everyone does not believe in an organized religious faith,  I think its fair to say we all live in a society that expects and wants everyone to live by some basic human laws, regardless.  Is this story showing us how when human beings no matter what their culture, begins living outside of their own basic values, they will indeed suffer and bring about the suffering of their loved ones?  Money is the root of all evil, and many a man/woman have destroyed their lives, and the lives of their loved ones, by their greed for money, power, lust and the finer things in life.

I have said I have seen morals throughout this book....I just wonder what is left to discover.  As I said before, I don't see any heroes or heroines in the story, just as Adam and Eve were no hero or heroine in my opinion.

Cable guy is here and needs to boot me off the internet so gotta run.  Sorry for such a long post.

Ciao for now~

[JoanP]

One of the reasons the Chinese people were so grateful to Pearl Buck was the way she recorded the practices of the peasants and the farmers who worked the land.  No one else was observing and documenting their lives at the time.  Annie asks about Olan's burial service- the fact that Wang Lung asked for the services of  the Taoist priests and the priests from the Buddhist temple.  I have not answer - except it seemed to me that the bereaved husband wanted to cover all his bases...and called on all the gods he could think of to give Olan a proper burial.   I noticed "white" the sign of mourning too.  
Reminded me of the "red"  when marriage, births, and the new year were celebrated.

We've arrived at an interesting point - the idea of a hero/heroine in a novel?  Here's one definition of a heroine -  (there are  others very similar) Does this definition change your mind?heroine  

1. A woman noted for courage and daring action.

2. A woman noted for special achievement in a particular field.

3. The principal female character in a novel, poem, or dramatic presentation

Do you think O-lan fits this definition

Annie, I think O-lan suggested selling the poor little fool to a big house - back in chapter 14 when the family was living in the southern city where the family was desparate.  She suggested it - Wang Lung considered it - asked the poor uncomprehending child if she's like to go to a great house where there is food and drink and warmth.  Then he cried out - is there no other way!  He wept.  He knew what kind of life she would have...  Miraculously, the soldiers swept through the city and Wang Lung came upon the rich man, took his money and they were all able to escape.  I hate to think what would have happened...

Bellamarie - I'm wondering if you see Wang Lung as Job - being tested?  Famine, drought, despair... Should he have accepted it all as the will of his gods?  Money might be the root of all evil - but poverty and desperation also lead men to behave in ways outside their basic values too.

[JoanP]

Sally, you've got me thinking of Wang Lung's attachment to that poor little girl.  I don't think she would have survived in any other household at this time when girls were considered extra mouths to feed, worth only what they could bring from others.  And this one is handicapped as well.  Do you think that Wang Lung's feelings for her are unusual...unlike those of other men for daughters at this time.  Especially during famine, flood and drought.   In my mind he stands out  for loving and caring for her as he does.  

Bellamarie is interested in reading the second book of the trilogy - Sons  
I believe you are reading A House Divided, Dana - the third volume of the trilogy that began with The Good Earth and Sons, is a powerful portrayal of China in the midst of revolution.  Would you be interested in discussing Sons - or are you past that? I picked up my copy of Sons - and from the very first sentence, I see the continuation of The Good Earth.

I guess I shouldn't refer to that because I'm not sure if you are all finished with the book.  There's much to discuss in these final chapters...and the very last sentence of the last paragraph in The Good Earth sets us up for what is to come.  Are you ready to move on?

[ANNIE]

Thanks for setting me right, JoanP, about selling "poor little fool" when they were living in such dire straits in the south.   I had forgotten.  There is so much to discuss in this book that we could probably continue with just "The Good Earth" for another month.  And, I have reserved "Sons" at my library.  Hope it arrives before we make a decision to read and discuss it!

Yes, bella, I agree that this story seems to be told with the same cadence of the Bible stories.  Remember we thought we heard that cadence in PB's speech when she received the Pulitzer prize.

[bellamarie]

JoanP, " 3. The principal female character in a novel, poem, or dramatic presentation"

By this definition, then I am to assume every story ever written with a female in it, would have a heroine in it.  hmmm...just not so sure I am ready to change my mind even with this.  But it makes for a good argument, for anyone who does see O-lan as a heroine.  Thank you JoanP. for the post.

Yes, Annie!  I forgot about listening to the speech, and indeed the same cadence of the Bible stories was heard in her speech, that is what captured my interest.

JoanP.  Now that you mention it, I can see Wang Lung being tested in the ways of Job.
"Money might be the root of all evil - but poverty and desperation also lead men to behave in ways outside their basic values too."

But Wang Lung has managed to live through the poverty and desperation, if anything he has stored his money and harvests for such conditions.  His only desperation I have seen in these past chapters, is he is desperate to hold on to the hidden silver, gold and jewels he has in so many different places, so robbers should they come will not find them.  He is so desperate to hold onto his materialistic things, that he is allowing this horrible uncle and his family live in his house and send his daughter away for the fear the nephew would sexually harm her.  He is willing to move into the great house to be away from these horrible people, so his own son and daughter in law will not take his grandson and move away from him.  His lust and greed are his driving force in these past chapters.

JoanP, "Do you think that Wang Lung's feelings for her are unusual...unlike those of other men at this time."

Yes, I do think Wang Lung's feeling for "poor little" were unusual for those of other men at this time.  That is the one good quality in him that gives me hope,  he can be redeemed. 

  
I have not read next week's assigned chapters which will reveal what is to come next.  I am going out of town for the week end tomorrow at noon to enjoy the beautiful fall weather in Frankenmuth, Michigan.  It's an annual thing my hubby and I have done for years.  I will finish the chapters and be ready to discuss them on Monday.

Ciao for now~

[JoanP]

OK...keep an eye on the schedule in the heading.  This is the last week - We're scheduled to finish up on Sunday but can keep the lights on for you.

[Jonathan]

Enjoy your weekend, Bellamarie, and come back with another long post. You've come through with such amazing insight into the book and its characters. So have you all. Like Annie, I feel we could spend another month with this book

I was away myself for a few days earlier in the month, walking in the hills around St. Huberts, N. Y. I even made it to the top of Giant Mt. overlooking the Ausable Club with its fine golf course. On an earlier occasion I picked up a golf ball at the summit, believing that a hook or a slice had carried it that far (4600 ft). This time I picked up a penny up there and have already mounted it on a little stone that came from another hill I climbed. It makes a fine paperweight. Now, The Good Earth has made me realize that I may be picking up things left to placate or pay tribute to someone's gods. It has been interesting to read about the gods in the lives of the Chinese peasants.

Olan is certainly a heroine in my book, in the sense of deserving our sympathy and interest. She plays the role assigned her by her fate so well.

And what fun it has been getting to know the peasant Wang Lung. The salt of the good earth he loves so well. The world is his oyster. He has succeeded beyong his wildest dreams. Job should have enjoyed his blessings. He has nothing to regret. There is no need for an awakening in his old age, as Bellamarie suggests. He gets his just desserts. A third wife.

O-lan. Lotus. Pear Blossom. Each comes along at a new stage in Wang Lung's life. Each meets a new need in his physical, emotional and aesthetic development. A brilliant portrayal of marital rites in China. That's what makes it such a wild prelude to reading the Jane Austen book.

[JoanP]

Jonathan, you made me wonder - Pearl Booth, such an avid reader as a girl.  She must have read Jane Austen, don't you think?

Did you notice that Lotus is referred to as Wang Lung's "wife" now - I counted three times.  I'm having more trouble counting little Pear Blossom - and understanding what is between these two.  I'll bet we hear more of her in the second book of the trilogy - Sons.  What will become of her?

[bellamarie]

Jonathon,  Oh my, a third wife?  Now you have piqued my interest.  Only I dare say, I never have seen Lotus as his wife, only his mistress out of pure respect for O-lan and by the definition of concubine.  So, who is this Pear Blossom you have mentioned?   Do they actually take marital vows?  Oh I can't wait to see how Lotus accepts this.

"Olan is certainly a heroine in my book, in the sense of deserving our sympathy and interest. She plays the role assigned her by her fate so well."

You have almost convinced me when you point out, "she plays the role assigned her by her fate so well."  She always has had my sympathy and interest from the very beginning.  I sense that is why I am so hard on Wang Lung.  My heart still hurts at the mere thought of how she was treated and unloved.  Taking those pearls from her to give to his harlot, was like taking the only thing she had to cherish in secret, to make her feel special.

I have New York on my bucket list of places to visit.  Your post only entices me even more to see some of the beautiful sites this state has to offer.  Mountain climbing is not in my future, but seeing the beauty of mountains is definitely a must.  Good for you for making it to the top!

(I fear dear Elizabeth has her eyes on Mr. Wickham, as a distraction of her true feelings for Mr. Darcy. Why is the obvious so difficult for others to see?)

JoanP.  Thank you for pointing out the schedule, and leaving the lights on for me.  I don't want to be left in the dark.  You all will hear my voice.......hello......hello......is anybody there???      I am off to begin reading the last chapters.  I happen to have a night of nothing to do, so I just may finish them tonight.

Ciao for now~ 

[PatH]

Well, I've finally gotten back on schedule after a magnificent week of whale watching, birding, beach sitting and general yakking with JoanK.  What a magnificent duo birthday celebration!

I've got so many comments I don't know where to start, so I'll begin with a total irrelevancy:

I fear dear Elizabeth has her eyes on Mr. Wickham, as a distraction of her true feelings for Mr. Darcy. Why is the obvious so difficult for others to see?

Bellamarie, I'm still enjoying the thought of reading Pride and Prejudice for the first time.  Just wait: there are some twists and turns to come, and some magnificent scenes ahead.

[PatH]

One thing that strikes me is how anesthetic Wang Lung is to the character of the people around him.  He doesn't seem to realize what his sons are like until some incident calls it to his attention, or one of them tells him what another son really wants.  Doesn't he have eyes in his head?

He's even worse with O-lan, never seems to get what drives her.  But since one of the points of the book seems to be the fact that women in China are not actually persons unless they manage to make it so by some means, either by being high-born, a respected elder of some importance, so beautiful they can write their own ticket, etc, that makes sense.

[JoanP]

Wasn't that heart-breaking when Wang Lung seemed to have forgotten the existence of his second son, Pat? Not easy for the second son in any age...the first is a tough act to follow.  ( I had four sons, I know this first hand...in hindsight.). Don't they call Prince Harry the "spare heir"?

So we're coming full cycle as the farmer moves his family into the enormous Hwang house in town.  I'm wondering why he stayed down on the farm with son#3- Does he sense the significance of such a move?  Does he like the idea of his sons in the house...reflecting well on himself?  His pride has always been an issue - though  his heart has always been in his land. to
By the way, the Wangs don't own the big town house...they're only renting, right?  It's the land they own.  Is that important to remember?  I think so.

[bellamarie]

I finished the book and have so many thoughts running through my mind.  Pearl did a fantastic job in educating her readers of the life, culture and customs of  ancient China, along with the devaluation of the female species. I learned things I never knew and found upsetting, knowing how females in China, seem to be good for birthing sons, cleaning, satisfying the male lust, and serving to their every need.  I can hope in modern day China things are better.

Keeping with the feeling this was like reading my Bible, the last chapters of the book for me was even more revealing in comparison with the Bible.  I went to bed after finishing the book and woke up and my hubby asked, how did the book end and what did you think of it?  This is what came to me:

I saw the last chapters as the Seven Deadly Sins and the reason for the unrest, and division in the great house.  Wang Lung is constantly seeking "peace" in his old age, but it eludes him.  He decides to be an envious old man/father, instead of giving the young maiden Pear Blossom to his son, which would have been the right thing to do after his son asked for her, Wang Lung sees the beauty and youth in Pear Blossom and his son, and then realizes his own age has faded, [pride], and decides to capture his last season of lust & love with the girl who is young enough to be his daughter, [which in my eyes would be incestuous.]  It brought him the satisfaction of showing himself, and his sons he is still virile enough to lay with this young girl, but what it actually did was make his son [angry/wrath] and turn away from him, the other son saw this as an approval of taking a concubine for himself, and the other son is busy with secretly deciding how he will sell off all the land, and split it among his brothers once his father dies.[greed]  "The Good Earth," ......in the end the sons have no intentions of ever respecting the good earth, from which all their riches and social status came from, their greed can only see all the silver, expensive food, [gluttony] and gold and the things it will buy for them.  I suppose they learned nothing of the fact the wealthy lived in the House of Hawng and did exactly as they are doing, [sloth] being lazy, not working the land, and was robbed of everything, leaving the house empty and destroyed.  So while Wang Lung thought by spoiling his children and giving into their wants it would make them stay close to him, it only taught them to resent him, hate each other, and plot behind his back and leave him and sell off his generations of land.  Sins of the father......

So now that the next book is titled "Sons," it makes me wonder if Pearl picks up with the same Biblical cadence, hence Cain and Able.  Ultimately once Cain kills Able God decides: "When thou farm the ground, it shall not yield good crops to you! Thou shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth!" (Genesis 4:10-4:12)

Indeed this is how I see the ending of the trilogy.  So I suppose I will have to read "Sons" to see if my theory is correct.

Some information I wanted to share:

The seven deadly sins, also known as the capital vices or cardinal sins, is a classification of vices (part of Christian ethics) that has been used since early Christian times to educate and instruct Christians concerning fallen humanity's tendency to sin. In the currently recognized version, the sins are usually given as wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony.

1.    Wrath…anger,  Anger is an emotion related to one's psychological interpretation of having been offended, wronged, or denied and a tendency to react through retaliation.  Wrath or anger, usually associated with violence, violent reaction, or acting out.
2.    Greed….Greed is the inordinate desire to possess wealth, goods, or objects of abstract value with the intention to keep it for one's self, far beyond the dictates of basic survival and comfort. It is applied to a markedly high desire for and pursuit of wealth, status, and power.
3.    Sloth….laziness,  Sloth is defined as spiritual or emotional apathy, neglecting what God has spoken, and being physically and emotionally inactive. Sloth can also indicate a wasting due to lack of use, concerning a person, place, thing, skill, or intangible ideal that would require maintenance, refinement, or support to continue to exist.
4.    Pride…Pride is an inwardly directed emotion that carries two common meanings. With a negative connotation, pride refers to an inflated sense of one's personal status or accomplishments, often used synonymously with hubris. With a positive connotation, pride refers to a satisfied sense of attachment toward one's own or another's choices and actions, or toward a whole group of people, and is a product of praise, independent self-reflection, or a fulfilled feeling of belonging.
5.    Lust…Lust is an emotion or feeling of intense desire in the body. The lust can take any form such as the lust for knowledge, the lust for sex or the lust for power. It can take such mundane forms as the lust for food as distinct from the need for food. Lust is a powerful psychological force producing intense wanting for an object, or circumstance fulfilling the emotion.
6.    Envy…Envy (Latin: invidia) is a resentment which "occurs when someone lacks another's quality, achievement or possession and wishes that the other lacked it."
Bertrand Russell said that envy was one of the most potent causes of unhappiness.[2] Not only is the envious person rendered unhappy by his envy, but they also wish to inflict misfortune on others. Although envy is generally seen as something negative.[3] However, psychologists have recently suggested that there may be two types of envy: malicious envy and benign envy - benign envy being proposed as a type of positive motivational force.[4][5]
7.   Gluttony….Gluttony, derived from the Latin gluttire meaning to gulp down or swallow, means over-indulgence and over-consumption of food, drink, or wealth items to the point of extravagance or waste

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins


Cain, Able and Seth the first born sons of Adam & Eve.........Coincedence that Wang Lung and O-lan had 3 sons?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogies_of_Genesis

After reading the story of Cain and Able, I could see how the two sons living in the great house have already killed their relationship as brothers over their wives jealousies, and their own greed to possess their father's inheritance.  One son sees the father giving his brother the rite to know all his financial information, which angers him because now he can no longer spend on a whim and want.    

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain_and_Abel
The story of Cain & Able

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is about the first and second sons of Adam and Eve. For other uses, see Cain and Abel (disambiguation).
"Abel", "Cain", and "My Brother's Keeper" redirect here. For other uses, see Abel (disambiguation), Cain (disambiguation), and My Brother's Keeper (disambiguation).

Cain slaying Abel by Peter Paul Rubens
Cain and Abel (Hebrew: הֶבֶל ,קַיִן Qayin, Hevel) were according to the Book of Genesis, two sons of Adam and Eve. Cain is described as a crop farmer and his younger brother Abel as a shepherd. Cain was the first human born and Abel was the first human to die. Cain committed the first murder by killing his brother. Exegeses of Genesis 4 by ancient and modern commentators have typically assumed that the motives were jealousy and anger.[1] Although the Cain and Abel story is found in the Quran, the text refers to them simply as the sons of Adam (Arabic: ابني آدم), and neither of them is mentioned by name.

Later in the narrative, God asks Cain, "Where is Abel thy brother?" Cain replies, "I do not know: Am I my brother's keeper?"

After this, God said to Cain, "What hast you done? The voice of thy brother's blood crieth out to Me from the ground! So now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand. When thou farm the ground, it shall not yield good crops to you! Thou shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth! (Genesis 4:10-4:12)

Motive….The Genesis narrative does not give a specific reason for the murder of Abel. Modern commentators typically assume that the motives were jealousy and anger due to God rejecting his offering, while accepting Abel's.[1] Ancient exegetes, such as the Midrash and the Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan, suggest something even more sinister behind the killing.[20] They supplement that the motive involved a desire for the most beautiful woman. According to Midrashic tradition, Cain and Abel each had twin sisters whom they were to marry. The Midrash states that Abel's promised wife, Aclima, was more beautiful. Since Cain would not consent to this arrangement, Adam suggested seeking God's blessing by means of a sacrifice. Whomever God blessed, would marry Aclima. When God openly rejected Cain's sacrifice, Cain slew his brother in a fit of jealousy and anger.[21] Analysts have described Cain's relationship to his sister as being incestuous.[22]

Seems Pearl not only covered all the seven deadly sins, but has included the Cain & Able story by the brothers hating each other, and she even managed to include the incestuous relationship of Wang Lung and Pear Blossom.  IMO  

I am sure as I think more about this book as the days go by I will see so much more Pearl wanted us to see in this great story.  For now I must go pack to be ready for my weekend away.

I can't wait to see what you all have to post regarding the last chapters.  I have enjoyed this book and discussion more than any I can remember.  The insights will remain with me forever!  I will begin my search to find "Sons."  How can I not read the last book to see where Pearl takes these sons.

Ciao for now~

[ANNIE]

Bellamarie,Without rereading the ending of the book, I remember thinking that we also have the story of the Prodigal Son included here.



Parable of the Prodigal Son
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Prodigal son" redirects here. For other uses, see The Prodigal Son (disambiguation).
"The Return of the Prodigal Son" redirects here. For the painting by Rembrandt, see The Return of the Prodigal Son (Rembrandt).


The Return of the Prodigal Son (1773) by Pompeo Batoni
The Prodigal Son, also known as Two Sons, Lost Son and The Running Father is one of the parables of Jesus. It appears in only one of the Canonical gospels of the New Testament. According to the Gospel of Luke (Luke 15:11-32), a father gives the younger of his two sons his inheritance before he dies. The younger son, after wasting his fortune (the word 'prodigal' means 'wastefully extravagant'), goes hungry during a famine. He then repents and returns home, where the father holds a feast to celebrate his return. The older son refuses to participate, stating that in all the time the son has worked for the father, he did not even give him a goat to celebrate with his friends. His father reminds the older son that everything the father has is the older son's, but that they should still celebrate the return of the younger son as he has come back to them. It is the third and final part of a cycle on redemption, following the Parable of the Lost Sheep and the Parable of the Lost Coin.

[bellamarie]

Yes!!!  Annie, I totally agree with you, and  I was going to add the parable of the Prodigal Son, but due to lack of time, I decided I would wait for the next book to see where it all goes. I'm sensing that the young son will return from the military and things will be enlightening when he comes, and Wang Lung welcomes him back. Imagine how the two sons who have remained in the great house all this time will feel?   Can't wait to read "Sons".

Ciao for now~

[Jonathan]

Congratulations, Pat and Joan, on your magnificent week. You must have had a glorious time. Many happy returns.

Thanks to you, Bellamarie and Annie, for the key to a fresh interpretation of The Good Earth. So much to think about. I'm fascinated by the vision of Wang Lung seen through the eyes of the Christian missionary.

I''m still impressed by his strong instincts. I see him redeemed if only for seeing a mother in Pear Blossom for Poor Fool, after he's gone.

[JudeS]

I wander  among many sites.
In the Huffington Post I came upon this article by Celeste Ng, an Asian writer:
"It's difficult for me to explain how much I hate Buck's "The Good Earth".....
"While there is some truth in the books portrayal, it perpetuates a lot of stereotypes about the Chinese....the book has shaped a lot of people's perception of the Chinese, the one lesson in Chinese history that they will read in their lives.
"It is a story of a partnership in marriage and family. It is NOT a portrait of China."

So various points of view exist.
I personally am not too fond of this book because of the stereotypes. I found the performances in the movie brought it out of the stereotypical and created real people.
However this is not to say that I am not a fan of Pearl Buck. The other two books in this trilogy gives the first book some back-up and heft. The sons are more real than their Mother.
The author wrote a blockbuster that brought her the fame and money she needed when her first marriage fell apart.

I thought Buck's "The Pavilion of Woman" was a wonder.
This book tells of a woman, Madame Wu, who at the age of forty, after twenty four years of marriage, tells her husband that their physical life is over and she wishes him to take a second wife........

[JoanP]

"So various points of view exist. "Jude

 

This is so important to remember -thank you, Jude.  It is easy to look att he story Pearl has written throught the eyes of one's own faith - or national laws and practices, but Pearl Buck has stated on several occasions as we have seen - that she has written a Chinese book - Her book is not to be judged on Western standards - as some of us seem to be doing here - where it's against the law to take underage girls - we call this "rape."  Or to take mulitple wives.    We call it "bigamy."  But remember this story takes place in China.  There were no such laws - civil or moral.

"I'm fascinated by the vision of Wang Lung seen through the eyes of the Christian missionary." Jonathan  

 But we have to remember that this is exactly what Pearl Buck says she is trying to avoid.  Did she accomplish it in her portrayal  of Wang Lung and his three marriages - or the killing of the baby daughter, the sale of the twin daughter - or even the custom of older men taking concubines, as Wang Lung did with Pear Blossom?  Do you see Pearl Buck judging with these practices by western standards - or was she portraying them as they were - common practices in China at this time?

[JoanP]

Here's an excerpt from a rather interesting  article called Re-Reading Pearl Buck's 'The Good Earth' published by the Asia Society's Center on U.S. China Relations:

"Buck guides her readers away from regarding China as a cohesive unit, a misperception still all too common today. Driven by famine to seek refuge in a southern city, Wang Lung and his family find themselves adrift in an alien culture, where language, food, and behavior all differ from those of their home.

What’s perhaps most remarkable about The Good Earth is that many of the issues Buck raised 80 years ago are topics of discussion in present-day China. Wang Lung struggles with social mobility. He finds that having money means little to those around him if it is not accompanied by a change in his dress and behavior. During their time as refugees in the city, he and his family cling to the bottom of the social ladder, struggling to keep their heads above water in the face of indifference from those around them — an experience shared by the millions of migrant workers now residing in China’s urban centers. Official corruption, a plague to today’s Chinese government, makes an appearance when a magistrate steals funds intended to pay for dike repairs; when the public discovers his deed, the man commits suicide. And the lives of Chinese farmers remain precarious, as dependent on good weather as they are on hard work.

In a straightforward but highly detailed manner, Buck has composed a classic account of rural Chinese life."

[JoanP]

Have you finished the last chapters of the book?  I agree about the biblical cadence...it seems Pearl B. did this deliberately, doesn't it?

"So Wang Lung sat, and so his age came on him day by day and year by year...Thus spring wore on again and again and vaguely and more vaguely as these years passed, he feels it coming..."  

  I loved this...She seems to know something about the aging process.
Can we talk about Pear Blossom?  She seems to play a significant part in his last days.

What did the last sentence in The Good Earth tell you?
For those of you considering a follow-up discussion of the second Book in the Trilogy - here are the opening lines in Sons

"Wang Lung lay dying.  He lay dying in his small, dark, old earthen house in the midst of his fields, in the room where he had slept as a young man, upon the very bed where he had lain on his marriage night."

[PatH]

You're tempting us here, JoanP.  I'm glad Wang Lung got to die in the old earthen house, as he wanted.

There are some striking aspects to the attitude toward death.  People are comforted by buying their coffins ahead of time, and keeping them in the house.  The burial has to wait for a propitious day--with O-lan, that meant three months.  I hope the coffins were air-tight.  Well before the three months were up, Wang Lung's father died too, so they were buried at the same time.  It seemed particularly pathetic that as soon as O-lan was dead, Wang Lung felt a horror toward her body, didn't want it in the house, so had the coffin stored in the temple.  But when his father died, he had the coffin put in his (W. L.'s) room, and it was a comfort to him.  What does that say about his feelings for O-lan?  It could be taken several ways.

[ANNIE]

Way off topic for a few sentences  Does anyone here remember when we discussed Eco Burials??  Several of the links that were up, covered making your own pine casket and using it for other household things 'til it was needed, like a coffee table or adding temporary shelves for holding things like clothing, sheets, towels,etc,etc.  There were also brocaded body holders (looked like a lens case).  Also offered were lessons on how to prepare a body for burial. New ways to be buried at sea while increasing our reefs. And we have many burial grounds that are for natural burials only throughout the USA.  'Nuff said! Just a little reminiscing?

Now back to the book!
JoanP,
You asked if PB wrote "The Good Earth" with a cadence, purposely.  Hmmm, I feel like we need to remember her own cadence in her speech when she received the Pulitzer, would tell us that she thought in cadence.  What was that quote?  "I write in English but I think in Chinese."  Her growing up years were spent in China.  She spoke Chinese before she spoke
English. Maybe that's where that cadence came from??

I was able to download "Sons" on iPad at my library today.  I was taking a class on how to download audio books and regular books.  So, I too, have a copy of "Sons". But I have a f2f book to read plus "Remarkable Creatures" is on my reserve list at the library, our November discussion. 

Finished the book and thought the end dragged on forever.  And then, I read the first sentence of and the old man was still alive!  Gadzooks!
 

[PatH]

Cadence: yes, I wonder about that.  And there are recurrent phrases.  The one I remember is "this and that", which is used a lot in the last part of the book.  I would bet it's the equivalent to some useful Chinese phrase.

Buck says she is writing a Chinese story.  The only other American writer I've read who did that was a science fiction writer, Cordwainer Smith.  That's a pseudonym; in real life he was, among other things, the godson of Sun Yat-Sen, and a US army expert on Chinese affairs in WWII.  His stories (nothing to do with China) are supposedly written in the traditional narrative style of Chinese stories.  It's quite different from Buck, who is linear in time--things happen in order.  Smith has a sort of mythic style, with a kind of foreshadowing of the story, setting up the framework, then filling in.  But he also has the cadence.

[Dana]

I'm enjoying very much "A House Divided", as I did "Sons".  In fact I think The Good Earth is about my least favorite of all her books that I have read. As others have said, the characters are rather stereotyped, unlike those in her other books.   I mostly love reading about the old Chinese customs in her books, and the history.  You can see how revolutions happen that's for sure.. 
My favourite book so far , like Jude, is The Pavilion of Women.   A House Divided is shaping up pretty well though! I find I can only take so much of her style at a time which is why I've been reading her books for a long time and still have a pile to read.

[JoanP]

The characters are rather stereotyped (in The Good Earth), unlike those in her other books.  Dana  

 

Dana, do you think that the characters in The Good Earth were stereotyped - intentionally?  That they were supposed to represent a rich man, or a poor, a first-born son or grandson, a woman born into the wealthy class with bound feet - or the slaves who depended on their beauty to survive?  I could understand that, but when I consider Wang Lung - he's much more than a stereotype, isn't he?

Without giving away too much, can you tell us where A House Divided picks up?  Clearly The Good Earth ends with the brothers assuring Wang Lung that his land will not be sold...but there's that understanding grin exchanged between the two of them that makes me wonder if they mean it. A House Divided sounds as if they go ahead and sell the land after Wang Lung's death... Maybe you can't tell us if that is so...

  

[JoanP]

PatH - maybe I have to go back and reread what makes a Chinese story... "the traditional narrative style of Chinese stories." Can't believe I've forgotten already.  I thought it meant that Pearl Buck intended to tell her story from a Chinese prospective - not from her American experience - or from her missionary father's Christian experience...which would eliminate all that we think about the validity of a marriage with a concubine or two...  Will go recheck that post in which we talked about this.

Not sure I would take comfort waking up and night and bumping into my nice coffin, airtight no less.  This seems to be a Chinese thing.  I wonder what Pear Blossom things of this custom?  Does she wonder about her position in the household once her protector, Wang Lung is buried in the family plot?

[Jonathan]

Very interesting to read all your views on the book. I must admit I found myself bored at the beginning, but the book has grown on me as we went along. Now I think it's quite impressive. Perhaps it's the truth of it that impresses. It sounds authentic, reflecting what the author herself observed and experienced growing up in China. Experience in the sense of soaking up sights and sounds and stories.

I don't like the word stereotype applied to any character in the book. Least of all to Wang Lung. Each of the three wives brings out the best in him, whether as provider, lover, or protector. Poor Fool brings out so much emotion in him. As far as I can see, each son is given a distinctive character.

And then there is O-Lan. Her individuality comes through loud and clear. But the author felt she hadn't done her justice. Buck writes in her book My Several Years:,

'MY mind could not rest after I had finished The Good Earth and almost immediately I began to write another novel, The Mother, in which I portrayed he life of a Chinese peasant woman....'

About The Good Earth she wrote: "When it was finished I felt very doubtful indeed of its value...." And thereby hangs a Nobel Prize!!!

Has anyone read The Mother? She did write it.

[Jonathan]

I suspect second wives saved many marriages. There's an honesty about it that seems very refreshing. The immorality of extra-marital affairs is so tiresome.

[JoanP]

Jonathan, I agree with you wholeheartedly.  "Stereotype" doesn't quite fit the characters Pearl has described.  As soon as I read your post, I went to my Library catalog...which carries quite a few of books by Pearl Buck - but alas, no "The Mother."  Since you have the book, can you tell me if she spends any time on the  "poor little fool?"  Not about a mother's relationsip but the father.  I was so struck with Wang Lung's devotion to that little girl, right to the very end.  I got the feeling that Pearl had written an ideal relationship between the father and the handicapped daughter - to make up for Lossing Buck's indifferenve towards her.  It was unusaul for a Chinese father to be this attached to a daughter too...

Back later!