Good Earth, The ~ Pearl Buck ~ September Book Club Online

[JoanP]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

September Book Club Online 
 

The Good Earth by Pearl Buck

Interest in Pearl Buck's  The Good Earth, continues with the news that her never-before published, final novel is coming out in October, forty years after her death.  The Good Earth is the poignant tale of a farmer and his family in old agrarian China, a  depiction of traditional Chinese culture in the early twentieth century before World War II.  Some critics say it should move readers to rediscover Buck as a source of insight into both revolutionary China and the United States’ interactions with it. Let's discover together why The Good Earth remained on the bestseller list for 21 months in 1931 and 1932, and was awarded the Pulitzer Prize in 1932.l

Relevant Links:
the Good Earth Timeline ; Comprehensive Bio of Pearl Buck and her work ;

DISCUSSION SCHEDULE:
September 2-8	Chapters 1-8
September 9-15	Chapters 9-15
September 16-20	Chapters 16-21
September 21-25	Chapters 22-28
September 26-29	Chapters 29-34

Some Topics for Discussion
Sept. 26-29 ~ Chapters 29-34

1. Why did Wang Lung move his  family into the big Hwang House in town but keep the youngest son and his poor little fool with him on the land? 

2. T"he rich, never content, always wanting more." Is this true of Wang Lung? Is this what sets him apart?

3. "Like a swarm of locusts, the soldiers came - a horde of men - poured into his court like filthy water."  Is this how the "People's Revolution was viewed by the rich?

4. Why does Lotus insist that her delicate little Pear Blossom become the uncle's nephew's slave -  at Cuckoo's suggestion? 

5. Do you see a similarity between Wang Lung's feelings for his poor little  fool and Pear Blossom?  If so, why the night of passion?

6. "So Wang Lung sat, and so his age came on him day by day and year by year...Thus spring wore on again and again and vaguely and more vaguely as these years passed, he feels it coming..."  Does this sound like a man content with his final days, assured that his land will remain in the family?

7. What did the last sentence in the book signify?  Are you ready to pick up Sons - the next book of the trilogy?

Something to consider: How might this book have been different if written by a Chinese person - a Chinese man?

Contact:  JoanP 

[JudeS]

For those folk who wish to read more books by Chinese writers, may I suggest these:

Waiting-by Ha Jin (I went to a lecture by him in S.F. Just superb.)

Balzac and the Little Seamstress- by Sije Dai

Sunflower and the Secret Fan- by Lisa See

To understand sexual mores in China in Pearl Bucks era, see the wonderful Chinese movie: "Raise the Red Lantern".

[bellamarie]

Jonathon, "I suspect second wives saved many marriages. There's an honesty about it that seems very refreshing. The immorality of extra-marital affairs is so tiresome."

As a happily married American woman for 41 yrs, with God as our center, I can't disagree with you more about, "second wives saving many marriages."  All it probably has done is left one in the dark, or very hurt, if found out, and the other with a huge secret of adultery, or a lifetime of earning back the love and trust they have broken, if not divorced. Considering how China treats women, devalues them, and tortures them by binding their feet to be beautiful, uses them for slaves and prostitutes, it is hardly a culture/custom I can see a standard to follow where women are concerned.  Obviously coming from a Male dominant point of view, concubines, mistresses, harlots, prostitutes or what ever label is used to provide a married man with more than one woman to satisfy his lust would be acceptable, especially in a culture like China who places little to no value on a female.  Why would it matter how it would make a wife feel, knowing her husband prefers another woman/women to sleep with because of his lust. China or not, I can not accept this.  Guess I believe in the sanctity of marriage, and the vows two people take when they make their promise in front of God to become one in union.  Call me, tiresome and old fashion.

Jonathon, And then there is O-Lan. Her individuality comes through loud and clear. But the author felt she hadn't done her justice. Buck writes in her book My Several Years:,[/b]

'MY mind could not rest after I had finished The Good Earth and almost immediately I began to write another novel, The Mother, in which I portrayed he life of a Chinese peasant woman....'

About The Good Earth she wrote: "When it was finished I felt very doubtful indeed of its value...." And thereby hangs a Nobel Prize!!!

So, I was not alone in feeling this way about The Good Earth.  I did not ever feel Pearl did O-lan justice throughout this story.  I felt as though O-lan deserved so much more, and that is why I was so hard on Wang Lung.  Not only was there "poor little" I kept feeling "Poor O-lan"  I am like Dana, I will think The Good Earth will be my least favorite of the trilogy.  It was very slow to get into and if I were not in the book club discussion group, I am not sure I would have continued reading this book, I know I would not have finished it in this time frame.  I saw from the first chapters where this story was headed, stereotypical indeed, poor family, makes it rich and turns away from their morals, values and their Gods!  But, I will say..... the knowledge of the Chinese culture, customs, rebellions, and conditions enlightened me, so with that being said, I can see why Pearl earned her Pulitzer Prize.  

Thank you JoanP for an excellent discussion.  YOU deserve an award for keeping us excited, engaging and enlightened with this story.  As always with this group of great avid readers, I give you all kudos for a great discussion!  Thank you for leaving the lights on.....

Ciao for now~

[Dana]

Sons is the second of the trilogy.  In it you see how much the three sons differ from their father and roots.  A House Divided gets into revolutionary times.  I agree with Jonathan that concubines perhaps were a way of making marriages work.  Olan to me is pretty unrealistic--the uncomplaining mother earth figure.  Concubines seem to have had an established place in society and were  certainly recognised and even honoured family members, buried in the same gravesites.
Perhaps the characters aren't stereotypes, Joan, I think my feelings are affected by the biblical cadance of her writing! Which tends to make you think you're reading something very profound and universal when in fact you may just be reading something very unrealistic wrapped up in fancy language..

[salan]

Remember that Olan murdered her new born baby girl.  She wouldn't have committed this act had it been a boy.  She was also willing to sell "poor little"; so she was not without blame.
Sally

[ANNIE]

I just brought home "Young Fu of the upper yangtze" and the introduction is written by Pearl Buck in 1972.  Her first paragraph reads:

 To understand and enjoy a book about a country and its people, is is always necessary to know something, however general, of their history and their ways of living and thinking, which is to say their culture.  At the present moment in our world this necessity is especially true in regard to China, one of the oldest countries.

She writes a brief history of China up to when she was youngster and then she writes:

Of course there were periods of chaos as one dynasty merged into another, and it was in such a period of change that I lived most of my long life in China, beginning when I was three months old, when my parents took me to China with them, where I lived until I was more than 40 years old.  It is in this period that Elizabeth Lewis has placed her story of Young Fu.

What kind of period was it?  It was a period of revolution, struggle and wars.  The old empress, Tzu Hsi, died in 1909.  Immediately contenders for the Imperial Throne rose up, each with his private army, to fight all others, one by one.  These contenders, bold ambitious
men, were called 'tuchun'.  Each ruled temporarily in his area until another drove him away.

Meanwhile, the people waited until one final conqueror would prove himself victor over all the others and become the first emperor of a new dynasty. Such periods were always dangerous, for robbers roamed and rascals thrived.  This book tells of such troubles. People's lives and businesses were always unsafe, and there was often little difference, if any, between a bandit and a soldier.  People were killed in their homes and shops, and only the very poor were safe.

Young Fu's life, so well portrayed by Elizabeth Lewis, was in the years of turmoil, after the old empress died.  In this disorganized period he did his best to live an honest, hardworking life, and it is his story that is here told with faithful attention to the difficult and dangerous times in which he lived.  To understand the vast, complex China of today, one must try to learn about its past.  The story of Young Fu of the Upper Yangtze is a prologue to modern China.
 
Sorry for this long quote, but I now better understand the invasion of Wang Lung's home in the city, his fear of this uncle and the uncle's connection to the gangs.  The wars that are mentioned as being close or far away. When PB writes in the "Sons", she writes about most of what she told in this quote. She begins to tell us more about China's history.

[Jonathan]

Bellamarie, I share your values and your beliefs, by way of inhertance and conviction, and am shocked by some customs accepted as the norm in other cultures. For that reason I was surprised by the authors non-judgemental treatment of her subject, given her missionary background. Of course she describes things that leave every reader feeling angry, but she does succeed at what she set out to do, as can be seen from another quote from My Several Worlds:

'At this period of my life and of China's history I was keenly aware of the Chinese peasant, his wonderful strength and goodness, his amusing and often alarming shrewdness and wisdom, his cynicism and his simplicity, his direct approach to life which is the habit of a deep and natural sophistication. It seemed to me that the Chinese peasant, who comprised eighty-five percent of China's population, was so superior a human group, that it was a loss to humanity that he was  also voiceless because he was illiterate. And it was this group, so charming, so virile, so genuinely civilized in spite of illiteracy and certain primitive conditions of life that might very well be merely the result of enforced mental isolation from the currents of modern thinking and discovery....'

As much as he detested his uncle, Wang Lung still saw the protection provided by his uncle's connection with the criminal element. Very shrewd.

[JoanP]

Thank you  ALL  for enriching this discussion - well beyond the two covers of The Good Earth.  

Annie quotes Pearl Buck herself -

"To understand and enjoy a book about a country and its people, is is always necessary to know something, however general, of their history and their ways of living and thinking, which is to say their culture."  

I think we've found that to be true first-hand while reading and posting our thoughts about the book.  We've considered her story through the eyes of our own beliefs and value systems - and I think we have come to understand there are differences among the illiterate Chinese - as Sally has pointed out, and as Jonathan quoted the author again from her My Several Worlds.

I've not yet started Sons beyond the opening lines in which I learned that Wang Lung is still alive - living back on his land again.  Wang's sons can't be identified as illiterate peasants, I don't think.  This should be interesting to see how they compare to their father as time goes by.  Do you intend to read on - or are you swamped?  We can consider leaving this discussion open for further observations on The Good Earth - and also comment on Sons rather informally right here.  And your thoughts on House Divided too Dana.  Or how about a General Discussion on Pearl Buck and her works.  

Jude  thank you for the suggestions for further reading.  Some of them are familiar, others not.  Can you fill in on Sunflower and the Secret Fan-  I'm intrigued at the flower names...can you tell something about them.  Am I wrong in concluding that they are names given to the teahouse girls?

I'll add
"Raise the Red Lantern" to my Netflix list - along with the 1938 Academy Award winning "The Good Earth" - really curious to see how the screenwriters and producers viewed the story.  I wonder how well they understood Pearl Buck...and wonder too what PB thought of the film!

[PatH]

I found too, that there are so many good ways to interpret this book, most of which would never have occurred to me.  It was a very rich discussion, and I'm glad to have experienced it.

Thank you, JoanP, for such a good discussion.

[bellamarie]

Jonathon, good to know we share the same values and beliefs and I agree, Pearl did indeed accomplish what she set out to do,  "Of course she describes things that leave every reader feeling angry, but she does succeed at what she set out to do"

I absolutely LOVED  The Exile, and it may have spoiled me so much so with getting to know Carie, that I just could not find anything much enjoyable about The Good Earth.  The Good Earth ripped at my heartstrings from the beginning to the end.  I have a handicapped cousin who "poor little" reminded me.  He like "poor little" is an adult with an adult body, yet a mind trapped in an age of a very young child, unable to comprehend much.  My aunt & uncle passed away, and his sister has found him a place to live that is for mentally challenged people, and she brings him to her home for visits.  It's heart wrenching, and for Wang Lung to look out for "poor little" and make arrangements for Pear Blossom to care for her after he is gone was the most moving, loving, caring, decent thing I saw him do throughout the book.  Caring and providing for his family was his duty, and it was also his goal to become rich and live a wealthy life.....but always loving and caring for "poor little" is something he could have abandoned at any time, and he didn't.  Thank you Pearl for giving us readers that to remember.

I have begun reading Sons, and am anxious to see how the three sons manage their more modern lives, compared to the poor dirt farmer their father was at their ages.  This youngest son returning home a respected military man is going to prove interesting.

JoanP.  I would like to keep this discussion open as an extension into discussing Sons, if others are up to it.  I am happy with what ever is decided.

I am off to begin Persuasion, and finish up with Pride & Prejudice.....so Mr. Darcy has finally revealed his love to Elizabeth, in such a way that she could never find the least bit acceptable or romantic.  Shame on him!!!  Yet me thinks, Miss Elizabeth has herself in a quandary, realizing she has been a bit too harsh in judging Mr. Darcy, without all the information first.  Hmmm... so the pursuit begins.

Ciao for now~

[Jonathan]

Naturally the book leaves one wanting to know more about China, so I've started reading Simon Winchester's, The Man Who Loved China, which has been on my TBR shelf for a while. The man is Joseph Needham, the brilliant Cambridge scientist, who falls in love with a student from China, and takes her to the movies: (('The Good Earth had just arrived and Sidney Franklin's rendering of Pearl Buck's epic novel offered Gwei-djen a chance to wallow in homesickness and nostalgia, and weep...p 38)

I'm also waiting for Peter Conn's biography. I'm hooked. Thanks for the great discussion. Raise the Red Lantern I remember as an excellent film.

[PatH]

Bellamarie, anyone who has had a handicapped person in their life must be strongly moved by poor little, and Wang Lung's devotion to her.  You just know that Buck was putting her own feelings into that.

I delight in thinking about you reading Pride and Prejudice for the first time.  You've got some wonderful scenes still to come, and a lot of suspense.

[bellamarie]

Jonathon, I began Sons because I want to see where the three sons of Wang end up.  I too would like to read Peter Conn's biography.  It's on my do read list!

PatH.  Oh my goodness!!!  I just finished Pride and Prejudice and couldn't be more pleased with the ending.  Wow, there sure were some unexpected turns in the last chapters.  So Mr. Darcy did not disappoint me or Elizabeth, with his kindness and generosity.  I can see this will be one of my all time favorites of Jane Austen.  Now on to Persuasion.

Ciao for now~

[ANNIE]

A quote from the back of "Sons" by Pearl Buck in one of her lectures.
 "Now Sons, of course, is a purely Chinese Book.  It is modeled on the plan of the orthodox Chinese novel, the material is altogether Chinese, the characters are less like ourselves than in the first book (The Good Earth), and the situations are medieval to the American mind."

I am halfway through the book and enjoying it. We see and hear more of Pearl Blossom. 

[PatH]

What about Poor Little?

[ANNIE]

Well, since Pearl Blossom has been asked by Wang Lung to take care of her, yes she is there.  She is 40 years old and has white hair and she now has a friend.  Well, sort of. 

[JoanP]

You're way ahead in your reading of Sons, Annie.  I've been deep into Persuasion and  Remarkable Creatures - though the time clock on my library copy of Sons is ticking.  I'm happy to learn that Poor Little has lived into her old age.  So much more than so many other Chinese girls could expect - healthy or handicapped.  Thanks to Wang Lung's planning!

Have we come to any conclusions regarding Pearl Buck's motivation in writing this trilogy?  Yes of course, there's the money to pay for Carol's care in the US -
but isn't she trying to introduce China to the world?  For what purpose?  To understand China better - or to bring about reform?  We know that daughters are still considered undesirable in China today...and we know that other reforms have not taken place as hoped. Is it enough to understand old China and it's practices to understand China today?  
 Just read an article this morning in today's Washington Post on failed reform -

No Reforms in China on Horizon

"After Xi Jinping took over as head of China’s Communist Party in December, some liberals dared to hope that change was in store for the world’s most populous nation.

...Xi’s signature initiative so far has been what he has called a “thorough cleanup” of the party, with cadres told to “take baths” to purify themselves of greed, extravagance, laziness and hedonism, to reconnect with the grass roots and to firmly adhere to Marxist ideology.

...In reality, Xi’s family has been able to accumulate assets worth hundreds of millions of dollars, according to a Bloomberg News report. But he is clearly aware that the party’s image has been tarnished by lavish displays of wealth.''

The message I took from The Good Earth -"the poor remain poor until the rich get too rich."  The poor are forced to resort to desparate measures to survive, the idle rich resort to extravagance.   Did Wang Lung see this just in time to save himself?  Is he the only one in the novel with a set of morals that we can relate to?  What of the future - is there any way to resist the cycle?

[bellamarie]

JoanP.  The poor are forced to resort to desparate measures to survive, the idle rich resort to extravagance.   Did Wang Lung see this just in time to save himself?

Wang Lung may have seen this in his dying days, but not in time to save his sons, as far as the ending of The Good Earth.  I'm reading Sons, so maybe it will prove me wrong.  Wang Lung dying in his farmer's house, reminds me of a sinner confessing at the last hour of their death. 

Ciao for now~

[bellamarie]

Okay, so I have gotten through the first five chapters of Sons, and it has basically entailed the sons needing to divide the inheritance of Wang Lung.  The third son who is a Captain in the military has come home asking for just silver and no land or houses so he can leave and go back to what he wants to do.  The eldest brother says this is not an option because after he spends all his silver, he could easily come back and demand land, or he could marry wanting a home, and his sons or grandsons could actually come back to the family demanding their inheritance of land or homes.  So the third son says to give him the farm house and what ever land intended, and takes his silver and leaves.  He does not even stay to honor his father's death by waiting the 3 yrs of mourning.

The sister in laws continue to fight so their husbands decide to divide the great house and put up gates to keep them from having to deal with each other........where oh where is this book taking us? 

Is anyone else reading the book?  If not I will finish it at my leisure, without posting.  It makes me no difference, since I have begun Persuasion with the group.  JoanP. if you need to close this discussion I have no objection.

Ciao for now~

[JoanP]

I wondered what would happen to Wang Lung's concubines as the sons went about dividing their inheritance.  They chose Liu the grain merchant, Wang the eldest son's father-in-law and the employer of WangII as the arbiter of the task.  I thought this was a excellent choice and learned a lot about how the Chinese handled such matters.

I found it interesting though, that Wang's concubines were taken care of, though Wang Lung's  own daughter,  his poor little fool, was left nothing!  If it weren't for Pear Blossom, not sure what would have become of her. I'll bet you noted the discussion regarding the concubines, Bella...they weren't real wives.  I wonder what Olan would have received, had she outlived her husband.  It seems her wifely status would have meant more than 20 pieces of silver per annum...

Another thing that troubled me...Pear Blossom and poor little are allowed to continue to live in Wang Lung's  earthen home where they had been living until his death...BUT the land and the house are given to Wang Lung's Third son as Liu has directed. I fear for Pear Blossom's safety...but once the mourning period is over, hopefully the young land owner will be off with his fierce entourage...and leave her in peace. 
I haven't read further.
Does anyone remember which young man was eying Pear Blossom before Wang Lung had claimed her?  Was it his youngest son or that nephew of his?

[bellamarie]

The drunken nephew eyed Wang Lung's daughter, that is why he sent her off to the home he contracted her to marry for fear the nephew was going to possibly rape her.

Wang the third son was in love with Pear Blossom, and I read how he left because he realized he was in love with her.  Isn't it interesting how the third son stepped up and added 5 extra silver to Lotus's monthly income because she whined and caused a horrible fuss about deserving more than Pear Blossom, and it's to come out of his income, AND....he then said to give Pear Blossom 20 silver monthly from his income before sending his to him, noting she is taking care of "poor little' and wanted to make sure Pear Blossom and "poor little" had a place to live and an income. 

So is it possible once Wang the third son gets his adventuresome days behind him, he may return to the farm and Pear Blossom and he end up together.  I don't sense he would be cruel to her at all, even though she has a huge fear of all men.

Yes, JoanP., I did indeed highlight in my ebook when they said, the concubines were not considered wives.

Ciao for now~

[JoanP]

So is it possible once Wang the third son gets his adventuresome days behind him, he may return to the farm and Pear Blossom and he end up together.

I've read on - and see that Wang the third son, now known as Wang the Tiger has such grandiose plans, it seems unlikely he will ever return to the land.  He confesses to his brother that while he dreams of sons of his own, he "cannot stomach women."  (Does he include Pear Blossom?). And we can't forget that Pear Blossom fears all men...surely this includes one as fierce and surly as Wang the Tiger.

Have you figured out what Wang Tiger's great "cause" is about?  It seems he has no plan for reform..or revolution....he seems to want to raise an army to expand his own personal fortune, has hopes to rule the nation.  Greed? Didn't he use the word, king, when revealing his aspirations to Wang the Second?

I sense Pearl B. is revealing her characters' emotions in Sons - in a way she only hinted at in The Good Earth.  I enjoyed the humor in the struggle between the brothers' wives...and the sensitive, sympathetic way she portrayed the weak and spoiled son of Wang the Elder, so unfit for military life.  Not sure how Uncle Tiger will handle him.  With disdain or with mercy?  Will he make him or break him?

[bellamarie]

Yes, seems Wang the Tiger aspires to be Lord of a nation!  Wow, I thought his father had big dreams to own the House of Hawng, but that is little potatoes compared to the Tiger's dreams. 

I feel so sorry for Wang the eldest's son, being sent off to be a soldier when he had absolutely NO desire to live that sort of life.  Of all people who should understand his son's feelings, it should be Wang the eldest, since he is also a sensitive, non combative type person. 

I did find it very odd that Wang the Tiger expressed how he could "not stomach women", when earlier we learned how he loved Pear Blossom, and was so upset when his father denied him to have her, and took her for himself, he left and never returned til his father's death.  In order for him to have "real sons" from a "real wife" seems he has no other alternative than to marry one day.

Seems you and I, JoanP., are at the same place in the book.  Can't wait to see where everything goes from here.

Ciao for now~

[JoanP]

It occurred to me when reading of Wang the Tiger's old General, that the same may be true of those who sacrifice their lives for a good cause...too much success leads to corruption and downfall - in every profession.  Wang the Tiger describes his "cause when he set out-

"At first, I dreamed of noble wars against a corrupt ruler, for so the old general said his wars were.  But his victory was too easy...
Now there are no honorable rulers and people cry out under the cruelties and oppression...
As in the old days, good brave fellows banded together to punish the rich and to protect the poor, so we shall do also."

Wang the Tiger has these lofty intentions.  Do you think that once he accomplishes them, he will turn soft...and fat from overindulgence? I'm wondering if PB is writing of this endless cycle in China.  So far, the Tiger is strong, well-disciplined and determined.

I'm seeing hIs strong attraction to Pear Blossom when he returns to his town with his army - though he avoids her.  Also, his strong desire to have sons of his own.  He realizes Wang the Second's happy home is due to his boisterous wife.  Somehow I don't see such a wife in Wang  the Tiger's future - but I can't see him with Pear Blossom either.

Bella, I had high hopes that  Wang the Tiger would make a man of the Eldest's weak second son, didn't you?

[bellamarie]

"Now there are no honorable rulers and people cry out under the cruelties and oppression...
As in the old days, good brave fellows banded together to punish the rich and to protect the poor, so we shall do also."

Now reading this, gave me an Aha! moment.  Is Wang the Tiger seeing himself as a Robin Hood! 

I think I agree, Wang the Tiger probably will not end up with Pear Blossom because she would be beneath him as a wife.  Although, he seems to be the one son who takes the most after is mother O-lan, so it does make me wonder if he could accept Pear Blossom a possibility.  Or, he may just watch over her and "poor little" making sure they are being properly taken care of.

I'm ready to read on to see where he is headed.  It would be a good thing, if Wang the Tiger would be an influence on Wang the Eldest's son and teach him to be a stronger person.  If not, I can see him running off not being able to handle being a soldier.  A person never knows their own strengths until they have to use them. 

Ciao for now~

[ANNIE]

I am reading "Sons" when I can and am quite far ahead of both of you.  Have been busy reading "Remarkable Creatures" and looking forward to starting the discussion on Nov.1.
So, I can dwaddle along and enjoy "Sons" this week.   

[bellamarie]

I am on chapter 10 of Sons, Wang the Tiger has now formed his own army.  I found it very interesting how when the two brothers went out to sale their father's land, a farmer and his wife are renting the land, and are thrilled to know they have the opportunity to purchase the land.  The farmer tells them to give him a day to decide, so he can talk to his wife.  They discuss it, and he tells the Wang brothers he will purchase the land.  This reads almost exactly like when Wang Lung the father, and O-lan were excited about getting the opportunity to purchase their first land.

Why do you suppose PB has shown us a cycle here?  Then I noticed the old fat General is lazy and doesn't do anything with his men anymore, the Lord in the House of Hawng got fat and lazy, Wang the eldest has gotten fat and lazy.  Wang the Tiger is now the new army, and two of the Wangs sons are being trained in their uncles army.

Pear Blossom is very upset about the knowledge the sons are selling off the father's land, and tells Wang the eldest to be careful because Wang Lung is not far away, even though he is dead.  This gives him pause and worries him.  Is this a sign the son's greed and lack of respect for the "good earth" their father made them promise not to sell, is likely going to bring them ruin, the same way those living in the House of Hawng lost everything?

Life does come full circle, passes on to generations, and if the generations to come afterwards do not value and respect what their parents and grandparents build and leave to them, does this show there will be nothing left for their heirs?

Food for thought in these chapters, as it is revealing how the sons are aspiring to be noble.

Annie, I just got the book "Remarkable Creatures" at my library.  I don't like to read ahead because I enjoy the surprises in each of the assigned chapters.  I have never read this author so I am excited to begin Nov. 1

Ciao for now~

[JoanP]

I have finished 15 chapters in Sons - finding Pear Blossom's position of interest.  All three of Wang Lung's sons fear her...and will listen to her when she makes a request.  Actually, it is their father they fear - and seem to sense Pear B's communication with his spirits.  Do you get this impression?  She attracts the weak and vulnerable...Wang Lung's poor fool and now Wang the Second's handicapped son.  Will this community continue to grow out in the earthen home on Wang Lung's land?

How far ahead have you gone, Annie?  Your thoughts?

By now you know what has become of Wang the Eldest's second son...poor boy. I wonder why Wang the Tiger wanted two of his brother's sons in his army?  Is it simply because he has no sons of his own?
I see the poverty-riches-poverty cycle, the poor in poverty until the rich get too rich cycle repeating itself, Bella. Seems to be the moral of the story...with ONE EXCEPTION - Wang the Tiger is becoming more successful and richer, with each turn of the page.  Yet he is disciplined and keeps tight rein on his army...even tighter on himself.  Will he eventually fall into the pattern?

I wonder about the Leopard's girl.. Wang the Tiger has captured this wild thing and now doesn't know what to do with her.  Will she be his downfall?

[bellamarie]

JoanP.,  I haven't gotten to the Leopard girl yet.  Sounds ominous.  I don't think the Wang brothers are so much fearful of Pear Blossom, as they are of the fact she points out their father still has power from the grave. 

 

[bellamarie]

Finished the book late last night.  Wow!  PB sure left the best for last!  I won't discuss anything until I know for sure you have finished it, so I don't give anything away, but it sure was worth the read.

I've come to the conclusion The Exile is my favorite so far, Sons is second and, The Good Earth is my least favorite, but is a must read, in order to understand Sons.

I do like how PB added the poor farmer in the last chapters of the book, showing the beginning of where the Wangs began, and how when you are poor and striving to prosper you work hard and hold on to the land to live by.

As the sons begin selling off their parcels of land to help them achieve their personal goals, I was worried it would bring them all to ruin.  I must say, each son had a goal for his career and their own sons, yet in the end it was all about being wealthy, respected and success. 

As parents you think you have the perfect idea of what you want for your child, and you work so hard and steer them to that path you have chosen for them in life......then as they become adults, they surprise you and want something entirely different from your dreams you had for them.  Parents seem to always want "better" for their children, but then who is to say "better" has to be so different, than what you, yourself had growing up?  I look at my two sons, who are grown and have families of their own, and I see how living a modest life, with their wives and children, with enough money to afford the things they like, seems to be their success and happiness.  Much like my husband and me.  At one point as they were growing up, I felt like Rose Kennedy, and thought my two sons could be JFK and Bobby Kennedy.  Now, I see the aspirations I had for them, was mostly just about being a part of our close knit, loving family, who like the Kennedy family, gathers together for holidays/Sundays, watch sports on TV, play board games, cook big traditional meals, and go out to the back yard and play some football.

I do love how PB had all three Wang brothers be there for each other when one needed money, support and family.  Even though at times each one was jealous of the other for whatever reason be it ones success, the rightful heir, having sons, having a family of their own, etc., etc. they proved, that when times got tough, they could always turn to each other for help.

Okay, going to go check in on Persuasion discussion and will check back here once I know all who are reading Sons is finished and ready to discuss chapter 15 - the end. 

Ciao for now~

[JoanP]

Just in from five days in sunny CalifornIA.  A beautiful place to visit.  I carried Sons with me ... Reading whenever I could, especially on the five hour plane ride.

This is really Wang the Tiger's story, isn't it?  How different his life might have been had he married as a young man...and had the son that he craves.  Why didn't he?  Because he loved Pear Blossom?  I've read 23 of the 29 chapters and am still waiting/hoping for those two to get together.  (Even though the Tiger has two wives - and two babies, one a son, one a little girl  he is taken with!)

Is anyone questioning how Pearl Buck acquired her knowledge  of war, armies ?  She's the daughter of a missionary.  Who would have given her the inside story of military maneuvers?

[JoanP]

Here is a thought- provoking article on war, not just the Chinese wars we're reading about in Sons Pearl Buck and the Cycle of War -

"Pearl Buck also wrote eloquently about observing seeds of violence in the relationship between the colonial West and the Chinese people. As a child, she was accepted in Chinese homes. She became especially sensitive to the negative effect that colonialism and its aggressive policies had on Chinese attitudes toward white people and the West. After the Western powers defeated the Chinese in the Boxer Rebellion of 1900, she saw how the Chinese hated and feared white people, feelings they hid from white adults but not from her. She says, "I learned the other side of the victory the white men had won and I knew then what my life has taught me since, that in any war, a victory means another war, and yet another, until some day inevitably the tides turn, and the victor is the vanquished, and the circle reverses itself, but remains nevertheless a circle."

Heartbreaking to read about Wang the Tiger's unhappy little boy, isn't it? The Tiger's inability to connect with this little boy... And yet his belief that this son will never fail him.  Another cycle...remember how Wang the Tiger had rejected Wang Lung's plan to keep him on the land?  He ran away!  Will this sad little son of Wang the Tiger do the same?  Isn't this predictable?

[bellamarie]

Yes, JoanP., this has been a book of cycles.  It truly shows us how everything in life, comes back around.  My heart hurt, reading how much Wang the Tiger cherished that little son of his, yet the son just wanted to play with his sister, and be with his mother.  I think PB is also showing us that when we want something so badly, and we finally achieve getting it, we must not be so selfish, as to try to possess it, or keep it all to ourselves.  I felt if Wang the Tiger would have been a family, with the little son, and the wives and daughter, the son would have enjoyed being with his father more.

Oh the scenes of Wang the Tiger learning about the betrayal of the Tigress, was chilling!  Egads...he did not hesitate, to take care of her.  I sensed when she finally did submit to him, she was going to betray him.  I was expecting her to kill him in his sleep.  But to be plotting to use an army of men to overtake him, was the ultimate payback, yet because of the loyalty of the nephew, he was able to ward that off.  That nephew turned out to save Wang the Tiger's life more than once.

How fun to spend time in California, I have never been to the state.  Close as I got was Laughlin, Nevada.  We were just miles away from the California border, and contemplated continuing to drive, but were short on time.  Our vacation was actually in Vegas, but we drove to Laughlin to visit friends. 

Enjoy the last chapters of the book......  Ciao for now~

[JoanP]

Well, I've finished Sons - and as I feared, I feel left hanging.  Too many unanswered questions.  What is to become of the House of Wang...the three sons of Wang Lung...and his grandsons, especially Wang the Tiger and his only son?  A farmer? A warrior?
And what happened to China, the battle between the warlords - and the effects of the Revolution?

I admit to being disappointed when Pear Blossom told Wang the Tiger she was off to the nunnery when the fool died..."and Wang the Tiger saw her no more."  She was the only character in the book who did not act out of self- interest.  I thought the two would make a pair...a statement on the virtue of self- denial or something like that.  Pearl Buck did not give us such a love story, but rather the harsh reality that was life in China.

What did you think of Sons?  Could it stand alone? Would it make sense without having read The Good Earth first?  Does it leave you wanting to learn more of Wang the Tiger and his son?  Or did it end on just the right note?

[JoanP]

The Third Book in the trilogy - A House Divided focuses on Wang Lung's  grandson - (he's got a name in this book)- 19 year old Wang Yuan, and his difficulty adapting to the change in China following the Revolution.  As we saw in Sons, he hates war, but his father's hopes and expectations are a force he is unable to ignore in the period of unrest at the start of the People's revolution. He is trapped then between his father's survival and the reality that everyone else is adapting to modern ways.
I read that at one point this boy is sent to school in America for his safety...where he studies agriculture.

People who have read A House Divided gave it the highest rating and claim that only as a complete set can the reader view the transformation of the Wang family and the transformation in China, as PB intended.  Though I'm not sure about when I will read this last book in the trilogy, I think I'll always regard the experience as incomplete until I do.  

What are your thoughts about reading this last book in the trilogy?

[bellamarie]

JoanP., 

Well, I've finished Sons - and as I feared, I feel left hanging.  Too many unanswered questions.  What is to become of the House of Wang...the three sons of Wang Lung...and his grandsons, especially Wang the Tiger and his only son?  A farmer? A warrior?
And what happened to China, the battle between the warlords - and the effects of the Revolution?

I didn't feel left wanting to know more.  I felt the moral of the stories, The Good Earth and Sons, is it showed life is a cycle of all things, family, harvests, wars, rebellion, deceit, jealousy, lack of morals, faith, society etc., etc.  As much as we work for success, goals, higher achievements, rising above our parents, ultimately, it comes back to the basic necessity, the earth, and God is in control of all things, even mother nature, which provides our basic needs, water & food.  From the very beginning of reading The Good Earth I saw the beginning of time, Genesis, as in Adam and Eve in the Bible.  The ending of Sons leaves me seeing...there will always be times of feast & famine, war & peace, generations, etc.  Sons, recounts, Ecclesiastes in the Bible....there is a time for everything. 

I may choose to read the third book House Divided, but at this point I have had enough of the Wang family.  I don't think Sons could stand alone.  You need The Good Earth to understand where the sons came from. and their background of their parents to appreciate Sons.

Thank you Annie and JoanP. for sticking it out with me, reading Sons.  The Exile at this time, will remain my favorite, of PB's books so far. 

Ciao for now~

[PatH]

Thank you, JoanP and Bellamarie, for continuing to give brief summaries of Sons.  I've been following along.  Although I'm not ready to continue reading the series immediately, I did want to know more about it, and your conversations make me more likely to pick up the books in the future.

[ANNIE]

I finished "Sons" last night and like JoanP, I felt that I must read "A House Divided" before I can put away the Wang family.  I wil request it once more (I had it earlier) from the library and try to find time to read it.   IMHO, the saddest line in this book was,  "But I chose you"  rendered by the Tiger's son.  Very sad and ignored by his father.

So, on to "Remarkable Creatures" which is proving a book well worth our time.  A nice bit of HIStory and HERstory in the 19th century.  Very surprising and very well researched.  Hope you will join us!

[JoanP]

That was a poignant moment between father and son, Annie. A There were several heart-wrenching scenes between theses two- the Tiger never quite understanding his son.  
We'd have to read A House Divided to learn if they ever found one another...understood one another.  I wonder if the damage to Wang Yuan's self-confidence wasn't too great for him to lead a happy, freer life in modern China, after his strange, isolated boyhood.  

Bella, the cycle of rich/poor seems to be broken now as the rich warlords are on the verge of being overcome by the people. I think it would be fascinating to read of the early days of communism in China.  How will the Wangs manage without their lands?  I just cannot imagine them without it.  I think I'm going on with the final book in the trilogy, while Sons is still fresh in my mind.

[JoanP]

You're quite welcome, Pat -I'm sure you would enjoy them.  The problem is finding the time!  So many books!   So little time!

To add to the pressure to read faster, I've just received word that Pearl Buck's last novel has been published.- The Eternal Wonder..

She wrote this at the end of her life, 40 years ago while living in Vermont, in her home, where she died.  The manuscript has recently been discovered in a storage unit in Texas.  That is a story in itself ...More here about this strange discovery-

http://www.npr.org/2013/05/25/186318860/a-lost-and-found-wonder-pearl-s-bucks-final-novel

Must run!