Greater Journey, The by David McCullough ~July Book Club Online

[JoanP]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

July Book Club Online

The Greater Journey: Americans in Paris
by David McCullough

"Magnifique! I should have known--McCullough is one of my favorite history writers, and he's writing about nineteenth-century Paris, one of my favorite places to read/think/dream about.  When I was young I always wanted to go to Paris--but not Francois Mitterand's Paris. No, I wanted Degas' Paris, Balzac's Paris, Toulouse-Lautrec's Paris. Well, this was an extended visit to that same Paris but through fresh eyes."  Goodreads review "In The Greater Journey, David McCullough tells the enthralling, inspiring—and until now, untold—story of the adventurous American artists, writers, doctors, politicians, and others who set off for Paris in the years between 1830 and 1900, hungry to learn and to excel in their work. What they achieved would profoundly alter American history." Amazon review                                    Discussion Schedule: Week 1 - July 14 - 20 ~ Part I/ Chapters 1 & 2 Week 2 - July 21 - 27 ~ Part I/ Chapters 3 & 4   Week 3 - July 28 - Aug. 3 ~ Part II/ Chapters 5 & 6 Week 4 - Aug. 4 - 10 ~ Part II/ Chapters 7 & 8 Week 5 - Aug. 11 - 17 ~ Part III/ Chapters 9, 10, 11 Week 6-  Aug. 18 - 24 ~ Part III/ Chapters 12,13,14

Relevant Links

David McCullough-Brian Lamb  Intervew (Books TV)  ; David McCullough-Charlie Rose;  Biography - David McCullough; Morse's Interactive Gallery of the Louvre

Some Topics for Discussion
August 4 - 10

Part II ~  Chapter 7 ~ A City Transformed

1. How important were the name and parentage of Louis Napoleon Bonaparte?  Could he have done what he did with his ability alone?

2. There were several purposes to constructing the new, wide, straight avenues.  What were they?

3. Have you read Uncle Tom’s Cabin?  Has it survived the test of time?

4. Harriet Beecher Stowe thought that New England starved one of beauty.  Do you agree?  What can we learn of Stowe’s character from her reaction to art?

5. Do you think the European experience shows in Hawthorne's writing?  That of Henry James?

6. What makes a political climate that allows a senator to beat a colleague to a senseless bloody pulp without interference from bystanders?

Part II ~ Chapter 8.   Bound to Succeed

1.  

Discussion Leaders:   JoanP,  PatH  Barb,  JoanK,   Marcie

[Jonathan]

Paris can be such a feast. Even for the rats. Cavorting about on the grass. Or dining. Where's Manet, who was so good at catching people lunching on the grass? Or where's the gendarme? On my first day in Paris I found myself being screamed at by a gendarme. I had no idea what he was saying. I had no French. I resigned myself to being arrested. Until a passerby enlightened me. I was being told to get off the grass.

The RATS link also has an amusing column on the left: 'Ten of the best rats in literature.' The first nine are villains. But the tenth:

'The Wind in the Willows by Kenneth Grahame. Funny that one of the best-loved characters in children's fiction should be called "Ratty". But is the jovial animal who befriends shy Mole and introduces him to Toad actually a rat? Or is he a vole? The debate rages. JM'

Spoiler Alert! I believe there comes a time when rats will save the lives of some hungry Parisians. Bon Appetit!

I'm still puzzled. The spot in Paris where I was lingering didn't have more than a dozen blades of grass.

[bellamarie]

pedln,  

I've heard the name, but who are the Kardashians and what have they done in life to warrant so much attention?

Not much!  Robert Kardashian was the lawyer who defended O.J. Simpson, for the murder of his wife Nicole and Ron Goldman. Robert Kardashian and his wife Chris were good friends to Nicole and O.J.  That seems to be the start of their fame.  They divorced and the mother (Chris) seemed to enjoy the cameras and celebrity attention and began a reality t.v. show with her new husband Bruce Jenner and daughters Kim, Khole, Kortney, Kindall and Kylie and her son Rob.  Now they have a clothesline, own their own stores called "Dash" in L.A., and New York.  Kim the daughter got notoriety for a sex tape that was released with her boyfriend years back.  She just married Kanye West, and the paparazzi were all over them in Paris where they were wed.  Anyone who watches any news can't miss the coverage of this family.  Chris started her own talk show last year, but I don't think it got high ratings.  Paris, L.A. and New York swarm this family as if they are royalty.  

Ewwwwww  RATS in Paris.  Well that sure doesn't make me want to spend much time there.  I think I also heard you are allowed to bring your pets into restaurants.

Jonathan, that is hilarious, a dozen blades of grass.  

I was talking to my Pastor Fr. Chris about our church forming a tour group to go to Paris this coming year.  I mentioned how I was reading this book, and how they talk about having to walk for miles.  He said if you want to see the major sites they are all pretty much in a square, and not a lot of walking to do.  He is from Poland, and I wondered later if he is like the French, a few minutes to them is hours to Americans walking.  

Ciao for now~

[JoanP]

Rats in the Tuileries Gardens?  The Kardashian wedding?  What's next? Do you suppose the French are holding Americans responsible for littering MacDonald's debris and the gauche goings-on with the Hollywood crowd?

Ella, I liked your modest interpretation of Margaret Fuller's three categories of Americans in Paris.  She probably put herself in the third species - the thinking American, anxious to carry back to America everything she saw and learned in Paris.  Wasn't it sad to learn that her ship went down in a storm off of Long Island...within sight of land?

[JoanP]

Margaret Fuller was one of the many Americans who flooded into Paris right after Napoleon Iiii became emperor.  Like many, she knew not a word of French.  Neither did the US Ambassador to Paris - Richard Rush!  He didn't appear to know what was going on when King Louis Napoleon abdicated during the bloody rebellion in 1848!  Did he know how unpopular the King was at the time, or was he clueless?

Do you think it's important for an ambassador to know something of the culture AND the language of the country where he is representing the US?

Another question - do you think it is important to learn something of the language of a non-English speaking country you will be visiting for a while?

[mabel1015j]

Do you think it's important for an ambassador to know something of the culture AND the language of the country where he is representing the US?

Another question - do you think it is important to learn something of the language of a non-English speaking country you will be visiting for a while?

YES! And YES! How insulting to the people of the country not to.

Have you ever tried to read any Margaret Fuller? Oh my goodness, so wordy, such long sentences and, of course, the nineteenth century wording! She was very smart.

[mabel1015j]

I did know about Elizabeth Blackwell's life and the NYC Women's Infirmary. I read her biography in 1970. I remember when it was because i was teaching in  a NJ high school and was pregnant with our dgt. Of course, the powers that be had decided that Heaven Forbid a teacher should be standing in front of a classroom who had obviously had S-E-X! So a pregnant woman was to resign at 4 months into the pregnancy. Because of the fashion of the empire style dress in 1969-70, i taught until the second week of April - our dgt was born the 28th of May. I cheated!

Any how, havng nothing to do for the six weeks after i quit teaching, i went to the library and never having learned anything about women's history in school, or college, i started reading the bios of women, starting at "A". Jane Addams was one of the first, but Elizabeth Blackwell came along quickly.

I loved the story that she was only admitted to the little medical school in Geneva, NY because the administration decided to leave it up to the few dozen male students as to whether they should admit a women, they being sure that the vote wld be "no." Boys will be boys, especially those around the age of 20, they thought it might be a great joke to have a woman in the anatomy classes or in the dissection labs and they voted "yes!"

She had trouble getting a place to live. When landlords found out why she was in town, they were appalled at this strange creature who wanted to be a doctor! She weathered a lot of harassment, but graduated near the top of her class.

As always when norms are changing there sometimes arise strange contradictions in people's behaviors. Even though she had fought for the opportunity to attend medical school, had considered it her right to do so, had weathered the classes and the labs and the harassment, when it came to graduation she thought it unseemly to walk across the stage to receive her diploma. So she sat in the front row of the auditorium and her brother went on stage to accept her diploma. Isn't that ironic?

Jean

[pedln]

She weathered a lot of harassment, but graduated near the top of her class.

It seems it's always been that way, Jean.  Someone in a minority -- gender, race, religion, disability, etc -- has to work twice as hard to prove her/himself.

[JoanP]

I agree with you about the necessity for an ambassador, or representative of the US to know the language of the people in the country to which he is appointed.  Without naming names, this is not always the case.  How unfortunate  it was that Richard Rush was the US ambassador to France - and spoke not a word of French!  He had no idea that his "friend," the Citizen King had abdicated - and then when he found out, immediately switched his support and allegiance to the new emperor, Napoleon III.

[JoanP]

I can't put my finger on the reason why I felt an instant dislike for Margaret Fuller and took an immediate liking to Elizabeth Blackwell.  I wonder if the Parisians felt the same way.  I knew nothing about Margaret before meeting her in these pages.  Maybe it's not a fair picture of the woman - described as an "ardent feminist" and as Jean found her from her writing - "very smart."  To me she came across as judgmental, strident, even... So shehe liked the French women, but didn't like the men, "sauntering arm in arm" in the Tuileries Gardens.    Oh really!  And she divided all Americans into three species...into which everyone was designated a place.  I think you showed her that there is considerable overlap, Ella - all people don't fit in the slots she has assigned them.

Elizabeth Blackwell on the other hand, understood the times in which she lived.  She didn't give up her dream of becoming a doctor, even though she was turned down by all the med schools to which she applied - until accepted by the Geneva Med School in NY.  When she went to Paris to enrich her education, she followed the advice of Dr. Pierre Louis, when none of the Parisians would help her - and was accepted by the Maternite hospital, where she proved herself and gained invaluable experience and confidence.  Later when she returned to the US she founded The NY Infirmary and College for  Women.  

\Elizabeth Blackwell followed the route I would have taken back then.  

[Jonathan]

It's interesting that Margaret Fuller should find her way into the book. And interesting for what she is quoted on her Paris experience. She seems to have spent more time watching her compatriots than enjoying the pleasures of Paris. Perhaps it was her Boston upbringing and her association with that New England transcendental bunch. Couldn't she see that some Americans were there for a holiday?  Not much is said about her experience of French feminism. It could hardly be improved on, since everyone knows that French women are adored and worshipped. George Sand's experience, no doubt, was exceptional. Fuller's death certainly was tragic, within sight of home!

What would she have thought of the Kardashians? Some folks certainly have a lot to hang out on their clothesline.

[BarbStAubrey]

Hahehe Rats - I had my own share till the biggest fattest cat I ever saw in my life took up residency in my back yard for a few months - at first the early morning explosion of sound on my roof had me running to see if the ceilings were coming down till I saw this cat bounding over roof and porch to catch a rat that was attempting entry into my attic - with all our wildlife roof rats are part of nature's "gift" to our neighborhood.

This book has us all tripping along finding out more and more about a time in history we seldom explore - I'm with you JoanP and I worry if it is because Blackwell is carrying out the activities I'm more comfortable associating with a woman where as Margaret sounds harder and appears more aggressive in her judgement of folks.  

If anyone of us knew more about and even read the story of Elizabeth Blackwell's life I would have suspected it was you Jean- bravo on your dedication to find women who have made huge contributions to society - I am always so glad to read your posts they are so full of good things that make us stand taller.

Have a difficult time assessing the current "humbugs" of today when I compare them to the stories of Tim - I guess it is being a showmen sporting a curiosity versus a value to life - but then I wonder if curiosities are with us so that we are entertained and that life is not just a serious endeavor.  Ah so, all I know is that if we did not have a nineteenth century Tiny Tim we would not have had the twentieth century version tip toeing through the tulips with a TV wedding to top all weddings.  I just wonder the psyche of those who do not show an unusual curiosity but still have to make a public display of themselves - beyond my ability to understand - so I end up setting the whole conundrum aside as if it does not exist - now that is maturity isn't it    

Well I am proud of my typing here - doing alright with a glued finger - I cannot believe it - the Doctor actually used Elmer's Super glue to hold my finger together - Came home from lessons on Wednesday hungry - after taking the thick red rind of the cheese used my big 12" Henckels Chef Knife to slice and there was another rind the same color as the cheese - knife slipped off - I thought shaved my ring finger but did not but did land diagonally across the pinky nail. Blood spouting - no stopping it - call neighbor - to the emergency room with finger wrapped in a thick towel - Doc decides to stitch meant removing the upper part of the nail which would be more surgery so he GLUES it - arts and craft on my finger - he Glued it - still seems incredulous but it worked - of course finger swollen and throbbing yesterday and feels much better today - get this - No need to come back until the damage grows and hits the tip and only then if there is a problem - Well I guess this is one better than the nineteenth century before Elmer's Super Glue.

I ended up sitting back and watching a few movies that had been on my list - Mozart's Sister which is mostly about their trip to Paris and how they stay in Pompadour's house as well as, on the road when an axle breaks they end up staying by chance in the same convent as the three daughters of the king - I had no idea Louis had three daughters - now I have to find out what happened to them during that first brutal revolution of 1789 when they all lost their heads - The Dauphin died that year so that we do not read of his public death and it was the Dauphin (who was bonkers) who Mozart's sister meets several times as well as, she wrote music for him - Of the three daughters Mozart's sister is befriended by the youngest who is a year younger and eventually becomes a nun that her father, the king allows her to join an order whose convent is located close to Paris. The girls never saw their parents since they were little girls and it is the Cardinal who arranged for them to be placed in this convent far from Paris.

The movie was perfect to really see if the king is attacked then the church is really being attacked and if the church is attacked then the King is really being attacked - they are one and the same ruling one inside the other with the traditions of the church being the traditions of French royalty. The Mozart family is in Paris for the first time in the mid 1760s about 80 years before the time in French history we are reading about.

Something I saw on PBS last night explained that for American writers the difference between us and Europe has been Space and Race. That Europe did not have the slavery in its political, economic and social history as we do in America and - get this - American authors write from a point of view of space. The example of Longfellow and a few other early writers were used however, until the Civil War we in American saw the west as a wall, a boundary of the unknown, where as after the Civil War we saw ourselves as a nation from one ocean to the other. And so with that concept Catlin was not only opening the eyes of Europeans to what was beyond the wall but to the American's as well.

[JoanK]

ELLA: how nice to have the National gallery posting those photos of Paris in our time period just as we are reading about it. They seem to be tracking our reading.

On my computer, I had to move the picture to the left a bit to see the small arrow on the right to move to the next picture,

[BarbStAubrey]

Interesting interesting... Our Catlin AND the Iowans had ulterior motives...

From a paper that I have a link by Joseph B. Herring, Selling the “Noble Savage” Myth: George Catlin and the Iowa Indians in
Europe, 1843–1845

The Iowas had traveled over four thousand miles from their village straddling the eastern border of present-day Kansas and Nebraska to England to perform in artist George Catlin’s exhibition and show. Catlin touted these American Indians as living examples of “noble savages” and their war dances and other ceremonies as authentic rites of a vanishing way of life. The Iowa performers did their best to please the crowd, and, not surprisingly, the audience loved the show. The English spectators assumed they had seen the Noble Savage.
Looks, however, could be deceiving, as some witnesses to the events that day fully realized.

This study is partly about the American artist George Catlin and his white contemporaries who promoted a mythical image of Native Americans for profit. Their story is relatively well known to historians and other scholars. The added dimension in this narrative is a group of Indians—the Iowas—the “commodity” that Catlin and others peddled to the public. These Iowas willingly participated in a deception—a commodification of their own culture and traditions—because they saw an opportunity to ensure a place for themselves and their tribe in a rapidly changing, pre–Civil War America. They presented themselves as noble savages, a fictitious image, to advance their own ends, and they silently conspired with George Catlin to confirm what Europeans already believed to be true about Indians.
 
Catlin, envisioned these Iowas as his ticket to the wealth and fame that had eluded him. He wanted to sell his vast collection of paintings and thought that the Iowas, authentic members of a “doomed” race of people, might facilitate that sale. He was a steadfast champion of the Noble Savage myth, which described American Indians as independent beings of stately bearing, brave but hon-
orable warriors and beautiful princesses, gifted orators, and creatures of innocence and simplicity living from the bounty of nature.

By 1844 he was well known in England for sounding the alarm that these noble savages and their traditional ways were doomed in civilization’s wake...The work received sympathetic reviews in the British press, partly because English critics opposed America’s harsh treatment of Indians and concluded that Catlin was correct—the U.S. government should be doing more to prevent the “inevitable extinction” of America’s innocent, noble tribal peoples.

The notion that noble Indians lived in harmony with nature’s laws had enthralled the English and other Europeans long before Catlin’s time. The myth began soon after Columbus’s voyages and was later refined and perpetuated by Jean-Jacques Rousseau and other eighteenth-century philosophers. The concept of the Noble Savage was eventually incorporated into Romanticism, the nineteenth-century movement that fostered exoticism and the glorification of nature. The Romantics hoped to reform a world made chaotic by industrialization, urbanization, and a headlong quest for profit. Their philosophy was a rejection of the modern, industrial world; for them, primitive societies represented the ultimate in natural perfection.

http://www.kshs.org/publicat/history/2006winter_herring.pdf

[mabel1015j]

Interesting statement on Fuller and Ossoli's relationship from wikipedia....

Fuller and Ossoli moved in together in Florence, Italy, likely before they were married, though whether they ever married is uncertain. Fuller was originally opposed to marrying him, in part because of the difference in their religions; she was Protestant and he was Roman Catholic. Emerson speculated that the couple was "married perhaps in Oct. Nov. or Dec" of 1847, though he did not explain his reasoning. Biographers have speculated that the couple married on April 4, 1848, to celebrate the anniversary of their first meeting. By the time the couple moved to Florence, they were referred to as husband and wife, though it is unclear if any formal ceremony took place. It seems certain that at the time their child was born, they were not married. By New Year's Day 1848, she suspected that she was pregnant but kept it from Ossoli for several weeks. Their child, Angelo Eugene Philip Ossoli, was born in early September 1848 and nicknamed Angelino. The couple was very secretive about their relationship but, after Angelino suffered an unnamed illness, they became less so. Fuller informed her mother about Ossoli and Angelino in August 1849 in a letter that explained that she had kept silent so as not to upset her "but it has become necessary, on account of the child, for us to live publicly and permanently together." Her mother's response makes it clear that she was aware that the couple was not legally married. Even so, she was happy for her daughter, writing: "I send my first kiss with my fervent blessing to my grandson."

Barbara, so sorry to hear about your accident, but glad to hear the doc had the Elmer's glue nearby. Teehee, as Ginny would say.

The book i read about Elizabeth Blackwell was this one Lone Woman, published in 1970. There doesn't appear to have been another book about her for adults since then. There are several books for children, thank goodness!!!
http://www.amazon.com/Lone-Woman-Elizabeth-Blackwell-Doctor/dp/0316944882/ref=sr_1_13?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1406954053&sr=1-13&keywords=elizabeth+blackwell

[JoanK]

Started to read Mondays selection, and I'm glad for it. I'm so ignorant about that period in French history: always wondered who this Napoleon III was, and where his rule came from. And interesting new characters, although it's frustrating to let go of the old.

[BarbStAubrey]

Not many movies either to give us a feel for this time in history - found one last night - a badly acted early Hugh Grant movie - Impromptu  1830s France, pianist/composer Frédéric Chopin is pursued romantically by the determined, individualistic woman who uses the name George Sand.

Women's clothes were more the full skirt rather than the pared down look of Jane Austin 10 years earlier however, some of the same social expectations with the men hardly having changed in attitude or dress.

[JoanK]

I remember being very impressed by a movie about Chopin and Sands as a child, but never remember the name or actors.

[BarbStAubrey]

I wonder JoanK if it was this one - there are a few others earlier in the 30s two in the 20s and one in 1910 but they are in German, French or Italian - this appears to be the first in English and made in the US

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0038104/

[Ella Gibbons]

"By the shores of Gitche Gumee, By the shining Big-Sea-Water, Stood the wigwam of Nokomis"

And there is Henry Longfellow - his memorable HIWATHA.    We had to memorize that  poem in grade school and each one recite it; I can never forget it!  So in Portland, ME I had to visit his home, over the objection of my sister who could have cared less, and I learned that pirates often came in to shore and burnt the town down after looting, so Longfellow's home and others had heavy wooden shutters with holes for putting rifles through to shoot those bad fellows. 

A bit of history that no doubt is uninteresting; still everyone has a story!

[mabel1015j]

Reviewing last week's reading............

McCullough started chaper 5 with the famous cliche plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. He mentioned the change in communication - can you imagine the difference in people's lives when news traveled only as fast as a horse could run? - and Daguerre and political turmoil and the transformation of Paris. But i thought about it also when Morse joined the Nativist movement, the anti-immigrant, anti-Catholic outcry. That has popped up so often in world history - our fear of "the other."

I suppose anthropologists and biologists would say that has been transferred down through the centuries in our genes, the "other" since primitive times could mean danger - i'm an agnostic as to whether i believe in genetic history, but it certainly seems that all societies have found it beneficial to be suspect of the outsider. That just goes so against my nature. I guess i have been fortunate to live in a time and a place when i didn't have to live out that fear.  

But political and societal behaviors do constantly repeat throughout history. You have probably noticed that i've used the cliche often in my comments on SL. Fortunately in the U.S. we do seem to slowly inch forward (imo), progressing to better behavior - or at least i thought that was true until the Tea Party became so vocal. I guess it means we must always remain vigilant.

D Mc says "Audubon, who had been married for 30 yrs, ...... assuring (Healy) the only real happiness in life was a good marriage." Really??  I snickered to myself (thinking back to our reading of the Audubon bio), when did JA come to that conclusion and did his wife feel the same way?? I remembered being very upset at JA leaving his wife and sons for months and months at a time, with no money or other resources, to pursue his love of cataloging plants and animals, and painting, and selling his books! Humph!

Jean

[BarbStAubrey]

Ella a few years ago I found the complete Hiawatha with full intentions of reading it through - Like you we learned to memorize a bit of the poem and it is a fond recollection.

Having over the years found a couple of early school readers there was a lot of memorizing of poetry as part of a school curriculum - I even remember having to learn a poem about every week - that was stopped before my children were in school - you have to wonder why and why kids can graduate from High School not having learned at least one second language.

But space in the shutters to shoot a gun would have been mouth gaping astonishment to the average Frenchmen at this time in history although they did enough shooting of each other - comparing their Civil War on the streets of Paris to our Civil War is an amazing difference. 

[JoanP]

JoanK - don't let frustration over the monarchs, French kings, empires, Republics, Napoleons,   emperors etc...  It's only going to get worse in the coming chapters.  Rather, be like the Americans living in Paris during these tumultuous times.  Ignore it all - enjoy it all.

I was a French major...gave up long ago trying to keep up with the political situation in any given year.  I'm reading The Shelf , a book suggested in the Library, not long ago.  Just this morning, I came across this paragraph describing the Phantom of the Opera author, Gaston Leroux..

"He was born into the period in France's complicted history called the Second Empire, (1868) when Napoleon Bonaparte's nephew, Louis Napoleon, having been elected president of the Second Republic, seized power, restored the monarchy, and made himself the Emperor Napoleon III.  
When France under Napoleon III lost the Franco-Prussian War, a popular uprising took place and in 1871 replaced the monarchy, very briefly, with a socialist government called the Commune, which was replaced in turn by the Third Republic.  These were violent times."

Maybe in the middle of this mayhem, you've noticed the Civil War at home.  I'm wondering what part the Americans living in Paris took in the Civil War.  Did they head for home at last?

Confused?  This is the state of affairs we will be coming into.  Now I'm going back to read your posts which appeared as I was typing this.  Also, I intend to scan my great grandmother's daguerrotype portrait to see what happens...I like the idea of mixing the old and new technologies to see what happens!

[PatH]

All I can think of that I've read from the time of the Second Empire and Napoleon III is something that doesn't help much--the libretto of one of my favorite light operas, Jacques Offenbach's La Belle Hélène (1864).  It's the story of the elopement of Paris and Helen, leading up to the Trojan War, transferred to modern times--1860s for Offenbach, all over the place in modern productions.  The story includes an elaborate parody of the court politics of the time, with all the intrigues, gossip, alliances, etc.  Of course this is completely opaque to me--I don't get any of it, but as an opera, it's both funny and tuneful, and an example of what they were enjoying at the time.  Here's my favorite aria, the judgement of Paris.  That's Paris singing, and Helen asleep in the bed behind him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyiHIOd8RTk

[mabel1015j]

Was just looking around at the Louvre online and came across this itemized history of the changes of the Louvre. Short and interesting narrative of the changes and pictures of its look.

http://www.louvre.fr/en/history-louvre

It seems to have been forever under renovation or new construction. Do you think it will ever be "finished"?

Jean

[JoanK]

Barb: thank you! It was "A Song to Remember." Well, I do remember it -- I'll have to see if I can rent it. No, maybe not. Stick with my memories.

Thanks, JOANK. I'm glad I'm not the only one confused. DM sheds a little light in the next section.

Pat: I love the staging on that aria.

[PatH]

I bet if we saw that movie now it would seem pretty corny.  Cornell wilde made a pretty dashing Chopin.  He didn't do his own piano playing, though.  That was done by José Iturbi.

[PatH]

New section today.  The political situation seems easier to follow here, and we get a new cast of characters--some new people, some old friends returning, some leaving.

[Ella Gibbons]

NEW CAST OF CHARACTERS!   Yes,   VIVE l'EMPEREUR

A fellow who got things done:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_III

[PatH]

You just shifted my whole day, Ella.  I spent the last hour reading that very copious article about Napoleon III.  He was both more capable and more repressive than he appears in McCulloch, but also had a number of social welfare ideas, and wanted universal (for men, that is) suffrage.  Most of France's activities abroad, not being particularly relevant to the Parisian scene, aren't mentioned in our book.

[PatH]

I'm particularly amused by his notion that "Monarchy...procures the advantages of the Republic without the inconveniences...."

[JoanK]

I haven't finished the reading, but I have to comment on this:

"Do you think the European experience shows in ... {the writing} of Henry James?" To me, the tension between his desire to be more British-upper-class than the British and his admiration of a romanticized "natural man" who was the diametric opposite is central to much of his work. I don't know how much of that upperclassness (spellcheck hates me!) of his he got from Boston elite society, and how much he picked up in Europe, (maybe DM talks about it) but he couldn't be Henry James without going to Europe.

[BarbStAubrey]

I wonder how far back the concept of Urban Planning took place - not building anew but tearing down and rebuilding the old and shabby - we still live with cities re-building with a plan that eliminates the poor just as Houssmman's plan for Paris eliminated the shabby housing of the poor.

[Jonathan]

How did he ever get away with it? Tearing down so much of historic Paris. Where were the heritage people. How come all the displaced people didn't riot?

Napoleon III certainly was 'a fellow who got things done', as Ella put it. He got more campaigns going than his famous uncle, the founder of the Bonaparte dynasty. The nephew not only transformed Paris, but took on Europe and the rest of the world as well. It tires one out just reading about all his achievments in that lengthy article.

Pat points out: 'Most of France's activities abroad, not being particularly relevant to the Parisian scene, aren't mentioned in our book.'

That's interesting. Of course, McCullough had to decide what to leave out. I believe it could have been made relevant, if he had found the material in his sources. I'm struck by how little contact there was between the Americans we are reading about and political figures in Paris. Perhaps, like Harriet Beecher Stowe, they came primarily for the art and culture and enjoyed an American preoccupation: another Great Awakening. Obviously such a great thirst. And not a word of culture shock. Lots of joie de vivre. While Paris and France were in a turmoil much of the time.

Bellamarie, you have put it off too long. It's no longer fun, going for long walks in Paris. All the mysterious, romantic, crooked little streets are gone. Now it's just those mile long boulevards that go on forever. As a contemporary account had it, on page 209:

'How frightfully the way lengthens before one's eyes. These interminable perspectives....In the twists and curves of the old Paris one was relieved from the pain of seeing how far one had to go from one spot to another; each tortuous street had a separate idiosyncrasy; what picturesque diversities, what interesting recollections - all swept away! Mon Dieu! And what for?'

Thomas Evans, we are told, got rich with his speculations in Paris real estate. Remember him? The Emperor's American dentist.

[PatH]

The dentist will have a heroic role to play at the end of this section.

I don't fault McCulloch for leaving out a lot of France's foreign involvements.  The book would lose focus with all the sidetracks.

[mabel1015j]

Wide boulevards let in light, made the cathedral and other beautiful buildings stand out, but most importantly, they allowed large numbers of troops to be moved quickly, battalions could be marched in, or out, of town quickly! Similar to Pres Eisenhower's building the interstate highway system in the 1950s to move troops around the U.S., no?

Serendipity again. I'm reading a book titled "Rachael Carson and Her Sisters". It talks about many women who were involved in the environmental/conservation movements and, of course, Silent Spring and the importance of its making us aware of what pesticides, especially DDT, were doing to the plants, animals and people. Several people, some well-known, are quoted as saying it was as important a book as Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin, making as huge an impact on the country. One person said the three most influential books in Amer'n history were Thomas Paine's Common Sense, HBS's UTC and RC's Silent Spring.

Jean

[BarbStAubrey]

Read an interesting book a few years ago why some parts of the world use camels and others not - seems the original concept for roads was to move soldiers and their animals - some parts of the world a road was covered quickly with blowing sand or the terrain was too difficult and so camels seemed the better war animal where as the areas where roads could be built the horse was king that eventually led to machines and carts pulled or driven by horse and viola the moving commerce today on roads where as camels do not pull wagons or machinery and still can cross sand so there was a different fighting culture established where the camel is king. The book went on and on about the how and why of the growth of towns and the differences between the horse and camel culture.

[salan]

I had to turn my book in; so I will not continue in this discussion.  See you next month, I hope.
Sally

[PatH]

Sally, do continue to come here anyway.  Lots of what we're saying is easy to follow even without the book.

[PatH]

One person said the three most influential books in Amer'n history were Thomas Paine's Common Sense, HBS's UTC and RC's Silent Spring.
Jean

Has anyone here actually read Uncle Tom's Cabin?  I'd love to know how it seems now.  (I know what you're going to say--I should read it myself).  The model for Uncle Tom, Josiah Henson, was a man of great ability, responsible for keeping the farm going, as his owner was both incompetent and an alcoholic.

What's left of the farm is a small cabin-like structure, with a modern roof, plastered onto a house in thickest suburbia, about 3 miles north of me.



It's not Henson's actual cabin, but a different part of the slave complex, and presumably the cabin looked much the same.

http://www.montgomeryparks.org/PPSD/Cultural_Resources_Stewardship/heritage/josiahhensonsp.shtm