Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online

[ginny]

 The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome to join in.

The book can certainly be read on a variety of levels and each one is great in its own way!---Joan R.

(These topics are only here to spark conversation, choose one or suggest your own and let's discuss:)
Week  3: Through Chapter 24:
It's All in the Cards


What a chapter! Revelations, surprises,  but even more secrets, what did you make of it?

1 Talk about unreliable narrators, what do you think of Phineas? Is he reliable? Is Ely? Do you believe Ely?

2. Who is the yet unnamed operative still at the site?

3. The cards and their meanings are revealed!!  What are two possible flaws in Ely's plan to use them?

4. " I see Agnes, looking not only very much alive but the picture of health. Her cheeks are pink and her eyes glowing as if she'd just finished a morning jog." (page 232). What's going on with Agnes and why?

5.  Are you clear  on how the two parallel plots intertwine here? We've only got a small section left. What has Phineas's part in the rites got to do with the hunt for the Golden Verses?

6.  What do you think Simon was arguling about with Lyros? What do you think he was struggling to say to Sophie?

7. What do you think Maria was doing on the computer?  (page 206) Do you buy her emergency family trip?

8. Betrayal as  a theme has just raised its head. How is it paralleled exactly in the two plots?

9. How much do you think Maria saw when she came to look for Sophie? Why couldn't Ely have taken her to land somewhere instead of the swim?

10. "....be careful not to hurt Agnes or Agnes's woman professor." (page 279). What need has Lyros of Agnes's woman professor?

11.  What do you think is the most important part of this section and why?

12. What does Sophie's dream about Odette mean? What is meant by the wrong pan and the wrong day? (Babi)

13. What's with  the diabetic complication that caused Simon, our artist, to die? (Andrea)

The Temple of Poseidon
Sounion, Greece
Where "Phineas"  got the scrolls

Schedule Chapters 17-24 for June 15 - 22 Chapters 25-End for  June 23 - 30

---

Interesting Links NYC Interview with Carol Goodman / Book Gathering '08 Carol Goodman Homepage The Philodemus Project -- Herculaneum Papyri Fordham Roman Mystery Religions (submitted by Suzie) Cult  (submitted by Marcie) Real or Fictional ? Links to Classical References in the NIGHT VILLA- researched by participants

Discussion Leaders: Andrea & Ginny

Floor Plan of the Villa of the Papyri by Karl Weber, 1750-.




New! If you'd like to borrow Gaetano Capasso's DVD showing the reconstruction of the Villa of the Papyri and Library, email your mailing address to gvinesc@gmail.com and we'll pass it around!

[ginny]

Babi what an excellent question on the dream of  Sophie, I've put it in the heading, and your equally excellent question about the day and pan. The pan is really getting to me, what fun!

Pat H:  How interesting that you see two Tetratkys there out of the 6. We SHOULD be able to eliminate them, we know Lyros is one and Sophie is not the other, so that leaves 4.

Two of the four are acting suspiciously unless you consider Elgin suspicious (is he the informant, it would seem so?)

But you hit the nail on the head with this one:

What does Lyros want?  

Supposedly he wants the scrolls.

What I ask does he need Sophie FOR? Agnes can translate as well as she and so can Elgin. Agnes is used to Phineas.

Supposedly he needs her so she will broker the trade in the Justa diary with the Golden Verses scrolls, but....? Anybody could do that?



So why Sophie? Something important here.

And Deems and Mippy on Maria, we don't have much of a clue about her, we're,  as Deems said, over here watching, sort of a third parallel actually, to the plot, kind of like Sophie reading "Phineas," actually. All we can do is watch and wonder.  The reader as the third plot.

I really think she's been extremely clever here. Not too many books can stand up to this type of scrutiny.

Since the Temple of Poseidon at Sounion is mentioned so many times in the text I put a snap of it in the heading, it's where "Phineas" "got" the scrolls in the first place, pretty, no?

Pat said, Elgin is helping the FBI in their investigation of the cult, and he shows signs of still being fond of Sophie, but I somehow don't trust him to be a good guy.

I don't either! Who DO you all trust in this section?

I sure don't trust  Ely.  I think Sophie has been hornswoggoled by Ely and her old feelings. The water combined with her feelings of her mother have moved her toward decisions about him I'm not sure I would have made. She wants to get back what she lost, with her mother and with him.

Yes he saved her. But even Lyros wants her alive.

Sophie's immersion in the water seems to have brought about a rebirth in feelings and enlightenment, about her mother and about her feelings for Ely. I don't trust him one bit, where does he get the money for that boat?

hmmm?

[Deems]

I'll take the opposite position here on Elgin.  I don't buy Sophie's point of view on him.  His actions seem honorable to me, and in some ways he acts very like some of the professors I have known.  As for the affair, Sophie was a graduate student at the time and apparently a willing participant.  There's no mention of pressure or doing something for a grade.  He has been supportive of Sophie's work and properly concerned about her dissertation.  Why can't he be the hero?  This book seems to need one.  Sophie's perceptions are sometimes reliable and sometimes not.  She certainly seems wrong about his interest in Agnes.  I'm not seeing that.  I do see his interest in Sophie.

[bellamarie]

Ginny,

NO idea who the operative/ informant remains

I am going nuts!!!  I have a ton to post but NO time today with the day care kids here.  But I have to tell you Ginny, my bet is on M"Lou the other operative.  Only time will tell.  More later.

Ciao for now.................

[Frybabe]

Ginny, regarding your question about the graffiti; I was cruising through the whole site you had posted earlier. The graffiti is under the "Writing on the Wall" section on the home page. I think they were all found in Pompeii.  http://ad79.wetpaint.com/page/The+Writing+on+the+Wall

Well, at least we find out what the cards stand for, but that still leaves WHY! Is it simple a code stating, "Sophie, I am here"? Or something more? Is Ely the one who is placing them? The last three are on her bed. That means he would have access to the villa undetected.

[ginny]

Thank you Margie, those graffiti are quite interesting, actually. Love the word block, almost a perfect palindrome.

I liked these, very famous of course:    O walls, you have held up so much tedious graffiti that I am amazed that you have not already collapsed in ruin.

A copper pot went missing from my shop. Anyone who returns it to me will be given 65 bronze coins (sestertii). 20 more will be given for information leading to the capture of the thief.

These are not in Oplontis and are quite well known. The racier of them might be found in any men's bathroom or the old telephone boxes in America.

Good I thought I missed something!

Frybabe: Well, at least we find out what the cards stand for, but that still leaves WHY! Is it simple a code stating, "Sophie, I am here"? Or something more? Is Ely the one who is placing them? The last three are on her bed. That means he would have access to the villa undetected.

OR is he getting his accomplice to put them there? Isn't THAT spooky? I vote for Elgin as that accomplice.

Who else? Maria? Hardly. OR?  Agnes? George? The Twins?

Deems: It's Ely I have the least trust in, oddly enough Elgin in this bit to me  seems somewhat remote. I think I'll swing 360 degrees and agree with you.  (Is that in keeping with the Pythagoras touch, a math illiterate wants to know?) hahahaa  I don't trust Ely one inch.

Bella: M'Lou as operative? That's creative! Supposedly it's one of the 6 but what if it is NOT?

Love it.

Those cards have more problems than what is she supposed to do with them, but that's a good point, what IS she supposed to do with them? I like the "out of the frying pan into the fire" elements of this story, particularly this section and I love the group here and how we're reading it.

Love it.

[Eloise]

I am so glad you all liked them!!

 Eloise, I hope you can take a day trip south when you come, I am sure your hosts want you to see everything you can! As spectacular as the villas at Stabiae  are, Oplontis would be my choice if I only had a day. You know how it goes, if you only have a day? I'd go to Pompeii first and then on the same train that goes back to Naples, you go instead toward Sorrento and you stop at Torre Annunziata and about a block from the  train station is Oplontis. Signage is perfect and clear.  Nobody is ever there, and there is nothing like it anywhere..

A day Trip you said? I woudn't want to go if it's only for a day, 3 or 4 days is not even enough to see the Amalfi Coast and Capri. I just can't zip through things like that. I like to stop and look for HOURS. We would be driving down because it's only about 5 hours from Switzerland.

Your pictures and links are so tempting and since it's positively the last time I will go to Europe, I would like to include the trip to Italy. I have time in the three weeks I will be there and if they don't want to go I can always take the train.

I finished the book and anything I say would be a spoiler, so for the moment I will just read the discussion. 

[ALF43]

 OK- maybe I've not read far enough yet, but what's with the diabetic complication that caused Simon, our artist, to die?  That's a stretch of the imagination isn't it? Even Sophie thinks so and so far she is none too bright.

Deems I see that you have a liking toward Elgin.  
This literally had me laughing aloud.

Elgin always tells his students and colleagues that he was named after Lord Elgin the British earl who brought back the Parthanon frieze from Athens, known there after as
the Elgin Marbles
BUT the truth , as he admitted to me after a night drinking Coronas & tequila shooters on his boat on lake Travis, was that he was named after the town of Elgin,where he was born-- nineteen miles east of Austin, famous as the sausage capital of Texas.

Now that is funny Carol, good humor there.  The earl throwing back Tequila and Coronas is indeed quite a picture.

[Deems]

Sorry, Ginny, I misread you.  I don't like Ely either.  Once a cult member, always a crazy person in my book.  I think I lack empathy.  It would help if Ely and Elgin didn't begin with the same two letters! 

I did find it fascinating that Sophie--in the Ely in the cave and on the boat scenes--didn't exclaim, "Why did you leave?"  Why did you never tell me you were OK?  Odd.

[ALF43]

Deems you lack empathy hey?  Perhaps we should appoint you to the Supreme Court bench!

[Deems]

Posting at the same time.  Hi Andy.

[ginny]

-----Eloise! You are so right. I misunderstood, I thought you only had a day to swing by there, you go,  Girl! It's like nothing else on earth, I do hope you can go with your son, how wonderful.

AND hopefully you'll come back and tell us ALL about it with photos! Do a LOT of reading up on it before you go, it will mean more. Maybe Francoise's book, just the English bits?

------Andrea!! Only Andrea ( a nurse and formerly of an ER too if I recall correctly would know that)...so WHAT did happen to Simon? Hmmm? Or who?

------Deems did you say murder earlier? We haven't gotten to the murder? Whose murder?

And why didn't Sophie ask  Ely why he left? Good one, putting that in the heading too.

Sophie's radar is not operating at full strength here, I think.  Like a lot of us, perhaps, she's seeing what she wants to see and not doing a lot of questioning. Why?

[Deems]

good one Andy!  Actually, I only lack empathy for people who join cults.  I know, I know, they are sad people who are empty and searching.  No empathy.  For others I have empathy so I'd be fine for the court.  Please call Obama and nominate me.  I wouldn't even have to move.

[ginny]

I second your nomination, Deems! hahahaa

Countrymm!! I was looking back to make sure I did not miss anybody yesterday when I saw this: SHRIEK!!  

Ginny, what a wonderful site you provided. Too bad I wasn't aware of this project when I visited the Bodleian Library at Oxford several years ago.  My son was teaching at Oxford then.  He is a paleobiologist and does continuing archaeological work every October in Egypt.  His interest is human evolution though, not papyrus scrolls!

http://www.herculaneum.ox.ac.uk/herculaneumarchaeology/Suppl1/DeSimone.html

 

Holy smoke, that's fabulous. Kudos to son!!  Will he take us all to Egypt on one of his digs?  I love Oxford. My only connection with it was taking a course one summer but I'm a fan for life. Tried to get our Books group  to go but it never made,  so Ella and I went the week or so before,  and then I went  on by myself, will never forget it.

Loved it.  I still hear from others in the class.

[ALF43]

Honestly what's to like about Phineas?  He strikes me as a narcissistic, dirty old man.
Yuk
 Really, I can almost feel him drooling and leering as he considers the evening with Iusta.  He's not trust worthy, he's all for Phineas.  He did however  understand the # 21 representing the Pythagorean product of seven and three.
I like these numbers that keep popping up.  

Three sets of three (Ely's obsession of 3's.)
The Fibonacci Sequence?  Oh I am so out of here now.  prime #'s, digits of pi?  BYE!

 Calatoria, the  snobbish hostess  exclaims that she's been presiding over the rites for the past 17 years and hoped to continue for the next 17.  NOT going to happen Calatoria.
Remember  La Disgrazia?  The # 17   which is unlucky   . I guess Calatoris can kiss her tenure of #17 years good bye!

[bellamarie]

Deems, 

Why can't he be the hero? (referring to Elgin)

For me its obvious Elgin still has feelings for Sophie.  I actually have liked Elgin from the beginning.  Elgin knew how much Sophie wanted to get the info on Iusta to finish her book.  I sensed he was genuine in wanting her there for her book and because he wanted the chance to be close to her, possibly protect her and to lure Ely out to get in contact with her.  So Elgin, (my Richard Gere) could still turn out to be the hero. (ending up with my Julia Roberts just like in Runaway bride and Pretty Woman)  Ahhh the romantic in me  just took over for a second.


Ginny,

Those cards have more problems than what is she supposed to do with them, but that's a good point, what IS she supposed to do with them?

 

The whole part of Ely and Sophie was too perfect for me.  I think he is setting her up.  The dates are something he wants her to remember because they meant something to him.  He has been obsessing about those 3 things that changed the outcome of his life. Sophie will not only feel sentiment for the first time they made love and the birth of their child, but she will feel guilt for sleeping with Elgin, making it easy for him to get her to trust him.  Remember little Mermaid and Ovid..."she's in love, "It's too easy."

The three questions Ely was chanting...lines of the Greek Hexameter verse comes to mind with them 3 cards.
Where did you go wrong today?
What did you accomplish?
What obligation did you perform?

So now I have to start suspecting Agnes because I have never trusted her from the beginning.  I didn't buy the poor forlorn Baptist girl.  Now we find out she was raised by nuns her first 2 years.  So who on earth can remember anything from the age birth to two?  I sure can't, so something else has caused dear pitiful Agnes to hate nuns and anything Catholic.  If Agnes is a Terakty then it would make plenty of sense why she threw her barbs at Maria, and she hates nuns/Catholic.  Simon was trying to alert Sophie about Agnesssss when his lung collapsed.  SSSSSS sound

The Teraktys want to prove they are the ones who will have the "creation". pg. 277 "Sixth century document that accurately predicted the birth of Christ and claimed that Christ was the re incarnation of a Greek philosopher.  Imagine the controversy it would cause Christianity, not to mention other religions.  Power it could give a group like the Teraktys, which claims to represent Pythagoras.  Others who would want the scrolls to protect their church."  I don't buy Ely had a change of  heart and decided to work with the FBI.  He spent too much time devoted to that cult.  And..he was spurned by Sophie finding out she had slept with Elgin.  A converted man...I don't think so.  Like I said earlier I think Agnes was spurned by Elgin and Ely by Sophie.  The two of them join the Tetraktys and vow to get their revenge on Elgin and Sophie.  Agnes enticed sophie to join he dig saying she would be the only woman there, knowing Sophie has been protective of her.  Again, Agnes knew when Sophie was standing at her window late at night when she couldn't sleep.  I asked then....HOW did she know?

Sophie and Elgin are the targets.  Ely and Agnes are there not only to get the scrolls for the Tetrakys but to avenge their rejections.  Remember the Poseidon!!!!  Jealousy is a deadly weapon, revenge is the ultimate satisfaction.

Okay so now that I think I've figured it all out....I suppose Carol is going to turn this whole thing upside down in the next pages.  Oh by the way, I do believe John Lyros is the leader of the Tetraktys, that is where he got his money, and that is where Ely got his for his fancy boat.

Now for mysterious, Maria.  Who is her aunt that she had to dress properly for?  The same person I suspect she was sending the info to when Sophie caught her on the computer.  I've had a tough time figuring Maria out.  She had damp hair on pg. 234 She could care less Simon just died.  She is a woman on a mission, but for who?  We figure out who the aunt is, we have our answer.

I do think M'Lou is the hidden person in Sorrento helping Elgin with the FBI, I just don't see her letting Sophie go to Italy so soon after her hospital stay in the condition she was in, without knowing she would be there too to keep an eye on her. 

Red herrings, indeed there are.  More later.  Have to run quiet/nap time is almost over here in the land of day care.

Ciao for now...................

[bellamarie]

Andrea,

Honestly what's to like about Phineas?  He strikes me as a narcissistic, dirty old man.

ROFLMAO...I have liked Phineas from the start because I have trusted he is who he says he is, a rougue, theif, and someone who had the scrolls. You just can't help liking Johnny Dep in Pirates of the Carribean.  Remember Phinea did not want to sleep with Iusta when Caltoria send her to him.  He had to or it would have caused ill effects on Iusta for not being pleasing to the guest.  Phinea trusted Iusta.  Iusta reminds me of Agnes.

I suspect Iusta stole the scrolls form his trunk.  That little minx, to think Sophie felt sorry for her and Agnes.  Sophie is just too trusting and lacks judgement.  Maybe due to the fact she had no mother to instill in her confidence and grandparents who put her down all the time. Sophie so wanted Iusta to be freed and back with her mother, for her own sake as I pointed out early on.  When Sophie over identified with Iusta its because I think for Sophie knowing Iusta was free and back with her mother, it would give Sophie the closure she needs to be free. 

[bellamarie]

Deems, 

I did find it fascinating that Sophie--in the Ely in the cave and on the boat scenes--didn't exclaim, "Why did you leave?"  Why did you never tell me you were OK?  Odd.

I don't see that odd at all, because she is living with her own guilt telling him she slept with Elgin which in her mind is why he left and fell member to the cult.

[Frybabe]

Bellamarie, Do you think the three sets of cards have anything to do with Ely's three sentence chant???  Might be worth thinking about.

I agree with you that Iusta stole the scrolls. She had her own agenda - to get back her diary. She gets him to do the dirty work so that if he is caught, it's on him, not her.

I also agree that Sophie is too trusting. She lacks common sense and good judgment. I've met a few very intelligent people who have no "street sense".

[bellamarie]

Sophie acts too much out of emotion.  She wants to be loved and accepted, so much so she is willing to overlook the obivious flaws and signs in people and puts her trust in them too easily. 

pg.24  "If only you had heeded the portents and signs!"

Unless Carol is going to change Sophie's character into a 180 in the very last pages of the book, I have to say she is highly educated in book knowledge, but is so uneducated in the real world.  She is just too trusting.  Where have her instincts for danger ever kicked in? Not that she would heed them and act on them, except for diving under the table when shots were being fired.  But then wouldn't anyone know to hit the floor in a situation like that?

Simon's murder is pretty obvious, Agnes took care of him.  Agnes glowing like she ran a marathon.lolol   Well she could tell Simon was trying to warn Sophie about her.
Biddle and Odette's murders were collateral damage.

[JudeS]

ALF: What's with you? You don't like narcissistic old men?
        Are you looking for HEROES  in this bunch?
I think just as we are suspicous of everyone so are the members of the group jealous of each other.  Everyone has an agenda except for Sophie who is hard to picture as the Heroine after she just falls into Ely's arms like that.  How does he get into the Villa?  Has he moved from the Cult to the FBI ? I'm afraid life is not that simple. But then again maybe in this book it is?

A friend gave me a subscription to BAR (Biblical Archeological Review) some years ago.Along with some interesting Archeological material the pages are filled with never ending, drag 'em down fights about who discovered what first, who's interpretation  about which object is correct and what are you basing your opinions on when  everything you say has been disapprovedd! No, it hasn't! Yes it has!
Of course they use very serious archeological language to say these things but it gets tiresome.  I usually end up looking at the magnificent illustrations.

Maria seems to be very Church oriented and so may be looking for some Christian material hidden in among all the pornographic bits. I asked in my last post about the meaning of the name Lyros.  Since no one answered I decided that it may be connected to leering.  What say you?

[bellamarie]

Frybabe, 

Bellamarie, Do you think the three sets of cards have anything to do with Ely's three sentence chant???

Indeed I do, that is why I posted it.  It is the Tetraktys mantra.  Those were his 3 things in his life that changed him.

1.  Where did he go wrong?    Falling in love with Sophie.
2.  What did he accomplish?    Getting her pregnant, he did not seem to regret the unwanted pregnancy.
3.  What obligation did you perform?  He stayed with her until she was unfaithful to him even though he was wanting to become a member of the Tetrakty.  Now he will get his revenge.

And I could be all wet just like Sophie.      

[bellamarie]

JudeS,

A friend gave me a subscription to BAR (Biblical Archeological Review) some years ago.Along with some interesting Archeological material the pages are filled with never ending, drag 'em down fights about who discovered what first, who's interpretation  about which object is correct and what are you basing your opinions on when  everything you say has been disapprovedd! No, it hasn't! Yes it has!
Of course they use very serious archeological language to say these things but it gets tiresome.

Throughout all times there has been and will continue to be a conflict, controversy and struggle to be the "ONE" who is responsible for the creation and the truth about Christ.  Many a wars have been fought and are continuing and will go on in the name of religion, to discredit one faith or the other.  Its all about, Power, Control, Money and Possessions.  Like in Poseidon, the key to the sea is the power, in Th Little Mermaid Triton's trident would give the power to possess the sea.  In Night Villa the scrolls are to be the key to the cult or churches to have the answer which equates into power.

Is now and ever shall be............

[Deems]

Deems, "I did find it fascinating that Sophie--in the Ely in the cave and on the boat scenes--didn't exclaim, "Why did you leave?"  Why did you never tell me you were OK?  Odd.

Bellamarie:

"I don't see that odd at all, because she is living with her own guilt telling him she slept with Elgin which in her mind is why he left and fell member to the cult."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, yes, you are so right, Bellamarie.  I went back and reread Chap. 21 in which Sophie (in her past tense mode) tells us what happened when she and Ely returned from his parents' house.  They came to an agreement of sorts and she began a course with Prof. Lawrence (Elgin).  As Ely spends more and more time with Tetraktys, Sophie begins hanging out with and then having an affair with, Herr Professor Lawrence.  We discover why Elgin is so against cults (his sister died with the Branch Dravidians) and also Ely discovers that Sophie has been having an affair.  He leaves the very night that he makes the discovery and goes off to hang with the raggle-taggle gypsies-oh,  sorry.. . . .with the Tetraktytian dudes.

When Sophie first mentioned the affair with Elgin, it was not at all clear that it happened while she was with Ely.  I assumed that she had an affair with Elgin and then met Ely.  Unreliable narrator.  And brain not always fully in gear as Andy pointed out.

[Deems]

Andy--I don't like Phineas either.  He goes on and on and on about things and is certainly a narcissist.  My diagnosis which I have no right to make.

[ALF43]

JudeS- oh my yes, I love narcissistic old men, young men, all men.  Thank God for that because I have known a few like Phineas.

I guess Bella's right, he's a rogue and he knows it.

Frybaby, those 3 questions drove me nuts when they first appeared in the book.  I really can not imagine myself lying down at night and questioning my actions throughout the day.  Good grief, I'd never fall asleep.  The Tetraktys were formidable though, I will say that.

As far as the definition of the name Lyros, could his name be the masculine form of Lyra?
Lyra is thought to represent the harp of Orpheus.
On older skymaps Lyra is represented as a bird: Vultur, the Vulture.

Deems- you and I would make a great pair.  We'd clean up this mess, wouldn't we?

[ALF43]

You know the more I read this book the dumber Sophie has become. 
What is wrong with her?
 When she cautioned Ely about the Tetraktys being watched by the FBI and he asked her where she had obtained this information she told him "from a student that was  researching cults."

Now how dumb was that?  Didn't she see Elgin's name and fax # at the top of the page?  That's weak!  Please !!! ... then she admitted to an affair with him.
 Again dumb!!  She expected Ely to "give up" his new cult faimly and embrace her.  Again-- DUMB!

dum-dumb-dumb-dumb.. the plot thickens.

[ginny]

Maybe she's not a good liar. Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive, I thought it was somewhat endearing, myself, it reminds me of somebody else near and dear who can't think fast on their feet. hahahaa

However, all of what Pearson would call my spidey senses are screaming and she is not on red alert, she's not on any alert, so she's apparently very trusting, as Bella says.

In  that she's like Phineas, he was trusting, too, at least her radar came out with Lyros in the car, that's good. Phineas's radar  seems back at Go. I have to think that he's going to regret this. 

How many of these people have betrayed somebody so far?

[ginny]

-Sophie has betrayed Ely
-Ely has betrayed Sophie.
-Lyros if we believe Ely (!) has betrayed them all.
-Iusta in this story has betrayed Phineas by stealing the scrolls (if we think she did, somebody did).
-Phineas betrayed whoever he told he would not speak a word of this, was it Iusta? And wrote it down.

Who else?

[ALF43]

Ginny you're way too kind, I fear.  How bright was she making love to Ely 10 seconds after he had to breath air into her lungs from her near drowning?
  Ah, hello, one lung shot up, no air for a long period of time, hallucinations of The Depths of the Sea painting and her mother(anoxia) I don't care how breath-taking this dude is she has no breath!!!
Drats I can't seem to get that image of The Depths of the Sea in here.  I'll be right back.

[bellamarie]

Andrea, 

You know the more I read this book the dumber Sophie has become. 
What is wrong with her?

ROFLMAO...Andrea, you totally crack me up.  I love your spunk! 

I don't see Sophie as dumb.  I see her as very naive, trusting, and a bit blind to danger and evil.  She is a good person and sees the good in things. Although, I do think Carol may have gone a bit over board with Sophie's naivete.  Her instincts did kick in to hide the cards and game from Lyros, so even though she sat at dinner contemplating staying the night with him and his violet eyes, something stopped her.  I think our narrator tried too hard to make Sophie's inability to see the clues etc. by logical explanations, but as logical as they seemed they had me scratching my head going....HUH???

[ALF43]

The Depths of the Sea

How about that?  I clicked on it before and it was there, now it has disappeared.  The painting will probably be found with those damned scrolls.

[bellamarie]

Ginny, I am the one who thinks Iusta stole Phinea's scrolls.  I see Iusta as our dear little Agnes.  Not so innocent as the narrator would like us to believe. 

Andrea, I am with you on Sophie falling into Ely's legs ...lololol as soon as she could breathe.  That girl had some pent up frustrations for him in a bad way.  lolol  Me thinks had Ely not showed up, she may have ended up with Lyros.  She was being captivated by his eyes and attention.  That girl needs a good mother figure to teach her how to spot a cad when you see one. 

[ALF43]

Yeah, well I think she needs something else!!!!

[bellamarie]

Andrea, 

I don't care how breath-taking this dude is she has no breath!!!

Kinda like mowing a lawn the day she comes home from the hospital with half a lung shot out.  She's a TEXAN!  Sorry Carol, no disrespect intended.  We are having a little fun...   Guess our pent up frustrations are getting the best of us.

[bellamarie]

Like a brain, Andrea?? 

[ALF43]

hmmm well no, I was thinking she needed a gentleman.  Any ole gentleman will do apparently because she's not sure if she's got the hots for Lyros or Ely, or BOTH!!

[CarolGoodman]

1. Was there an actual "The Reverend F. P. Long, MA, Sometime Exhibitioner of Worchester Coillege"...who was  "Published by the Clarendon Press in 1911?"

2. The statue of Nyx is beautifully described.  Where did you get the idea for it?

Yes!  I found Reverend F.P. Long, Sometime Exhibitioner of Worchester in another book, but I'll have to go through all my Latin translations to figure out which book he translated.  I'll take a look.

Nyx's appearance in the novel has a curious history, related to the book's title.  Originally this book was going to be called The Little Mysteries, which I thought was a rather clever, off-beat title.  Unfortunately, no one at my publisher's got it.  Why little?  the marketing department asked.  So, as is often the case (i.e. in every book I've written since The Lake of Dead Languages) I was asked to think of another title.  The obvious title--The Villa of the Mysteries--was a no go because an author named David Hewson had recently used it (I wanted to use that title for my previous book The Sonnet Lover, but had given it up when I met Mr. Hewson at a Random House cocktail party).  I eventually came up with The Night Villa by playing around with dozens of words associated with the book (villa, sirens, mysteries, pan, cult ... my husband at some point suggested "All Female Killer Cult").  I liked the sound of it and had heard of the goddess Nyx somewhere, but I started researching her in earnest once I had the title (in other words, there wasn't a statue of Nyx until I came up with the title, which was after I had written the first draft of the book).  I found the Hesiod quote and when I Googled Nyx I I came up with some gorgeous cameos on ebay that showed the goddesses of night and day. (I really wanted to buy one, but they were all too expensive).  That's where I got the idea for the cameos she sees.  And now, after I've told you all this, I'm not 100% sure where I came up with the description of the actual statue.  I think I may have made her up based on the cameos.

So there's a long-winded answer to your question!  If anyone can come up with a statue of Nyx that looks like mine, let me know and I'll tell you if I looked at it. 

[CarolGoodman]

QUESTION FOR CAROL

Carol, When you wrote NV, did you ever get confused with so many different books you were using for your research and material?

Confused how?

[ALF43]

Welcome back Carol, I hope that some day you will be able to display Nyx on your coffee table.
She certainly has had us hopping in here.