Author Topic: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online  (Read 39255 times)

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #80 on: September 07, 2015, 11:29:37 PM »
For Love of Lakes
Author ~ Darby Nelson: Aquatic Ecologist, Prof. Emeritus

"Deep feelings of joy, of belonging, envelop me. Boundaries melt, I seem as one with water, rock, and lily, all part of a magnificent whole. ~ Darby Nelson

Landscape is not "land," it is not "nature," and it is not space...
A place owes its character to the experience it affords to those who
spend time there, to the sights and sounds, and indeed the smells, that
constitute its specific ambience.  And those in turn, depend on the
kind of activities in which its inhabitants engage.
~ Tim Ingold


We are the landscape of all we have seen. ~ Isamu Naguchi


Welcome ~ Pull up your chair and join us.
Some of you will NOT have a book and that is fine - We expect to use the book as a guide for this discussion relating what we read to 'your' nearby lake. Most of the book is available to read from the Amazon preview link: For Love of Lakes

Link to, For Love of Lakes and tell us:
  • Tell us about 'your' nearby lake? How clear is the water? Are there wigglies in the water or floating bits? Has algae fouled the water?
  • Do you have memories of other lakes - what was special, how large was the lake and did you swim from a beach or fish from a dock or boat?
  • What did you know of Lake Agassiz and Louis Agassiz?
       - How does Stephen A. Forbes fit into the story of Lake Agassiz?
  • We learned most of our northern lakes and beaches were covered by an ice cap during the ice age. Water from a ghost lake, the ancient Agassiz surged and topped moraine dams, the result of glacier deposits and torrents of waters cut through the till... "huge boulders too large to be moved" accumulated and stopped the downcutting, forming lakes, ponds and rivers while altering the landscape we live with today.
  • Do you ever remember drinking directly from a river or lake?
  • Is there a quiet spot on your lake where you can hear the wind and the lap of the water?

Darby Nelson is a beautiful writer who adeptly weaves his cast of characters; insects, minuscule lake life, and rocks into a story of interdependence with his cast of birds and plant characters.

One, without the other is not possible and then, he enlightens us to the lake culprits that are draining the oxygen from our lakes, killing our fish and contaminating plants and birds. He tells the story as if a ballet, weaving and floating word pictures that show the beauty of these connections. His book would make a breathtaking movie rather than simply a documentary of facts and problems.

And so, rather than listing a group of focus questions that would only help us identify various characters and their individual habits, let's read and share the words and information that strike us as well as, photos (as Jane says, of reasonable size - A width of about 500 pixels should do it - need help with that please ask) Let's continue to share 'our' lake stories and links to sites that further and make easy the lessons Darby Nelson, ever the teacher, is uncovering in
For Love of Lakes
     

Dictionary of Glaciation terms with photos: Landforms of Glaciation
A Glossary of terms: Glossary of Glacier Terminology - Text Version
PDF~The Lake as a Microcosm by Stephen A. Forbes (1887)

librivox-Acoustical liberation of books in the public domain
Walden by Henry David Thoreau (1817 - 1862)

Our next section, Mindscapes is planned to be discussed next week, Wednesday, September 16 and Futurescapes to be discussed the last week, Wednesday, September 23.


Discussion Leader: Barb
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #81 on: September 07, 2015, 11:30:37 PM »
Well after all the sublime thoughts on lake reflections I was still caught in the idea of a lake having a basement - and did I have fun...

Asked Google what was at the bottom of Lake Travis - expecting to read about the couple of old towns and ranches that were buried when the dams were built and a few of those locations popped up big time with the recent record breaking drought as well as, we have one spot rather close to the surface of Lake Travis that is known as "Sometimes Island" because, other than this horrendous drought we often go through a year or two of little rain up stream, the lakes lower and up pops Sometimes Island. 

But I was not expecting this revelation...
http://archive.laketravisview.com/2009/07/30/lake-coughs-up-its-secrets/

And better yet, this is amazing - I wonder what has been found in the basement of your lake - oh please let us know this is amazing to realize what is as close to us as our nearby lake or even the lakes we swam in as children - talk about the various movies with an ominous hand coming out of the lake - but a 2000 year old hand attached to a body - wow...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1691166/posts
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Mkaren557

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #82 on: September 08, 2015, 10:42:58 AM »
Can we comment on any part of the book as we read or is there an area we should concentrate on at a specific time?  If so, where are we now?  I forgot to mention that Cobbossee Lake, my lake, has a lighthouse.  I need to do some research here to find out why and how the lighthouse got there.  I have a friend who was the lighthouse keeper for a time.

Mkaren557

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #83 on: September 08, 2015, 11:02:03 AM »


I hope this is a photo of Ladies Delight Lighthouse on Cobbossee Lake, the only land-locked lighthouse in Maine.  In the early part of the 20th century,  steamships were on the lake to transport passengers to Island Park, a recreation area with beaches and a dance hall.  In the area there are submerged ledges and rock formations.  The Cobbossee Yacht Club built this and has maintained ever since. Visible from the Country Club beach, the lighthouse fascinated me and became the location for my imagined stories.  I could not figure out how to get a photo in this entry. Help, please.

PatH

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #84 on: September 08, 2015, 12:06:14 PM »
Can we comment on any part of the book as we read or is there an area we should concentrate on at a specific time?  If so, where are we now? 
Usually, we divide a book up into chunks, and take each chunk in turn, according to a schedule.  That keeps the discussion more coherent.  There's a schedule in the heading, and I see we're due to start the section Lakescapes tomorrow, which means I have to hurry up.  I got behind over the long weekend.  We can continue to talk about older sections too when we move on.

jane

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #85 on: September 08, 2015, 12:17:48 PM »
Karen...you need go upload your picture, if it's on your computer, to a third photo hosting site.  Photobucket is a free one that many of us use.  Then you get the url for the photo from that site and you put it between [img ] url goes here [/img ]   I've left a space in the img tag so you could see the tag.  Take that space out between the g and the ] when you post.

Also try to keep the size relatively small ...maybe no larger than 400 pixels on the largest side.

If your picture is already at an internet site and not your computer, you can put the url in between the tags as above.  Just be sure there are no copyrights on the photo.


Mkaren557

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #86 on: September 08, 2015, 01:23:59 PM »

Success.  Thank you, Jane.  This is Ladies Delight Lighthouse

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #87 on: September 08, 2015, 03:21:24 PM »
Whee Mkaren - you did it - wonderful - nice photo - a picture perfect lighthouse isn't it - and then my goodness, a steam ship on the lake - now that is a "lake" - if the lake has a lighthouse it says to me there is a concern for more than bumping into the coastline - I wonder if there are hidden shoals or high spots near the lighthouse - whatever - it sure makes a pretty picture doesn't it - I wonder how close lake Cobbossee is to the ocean - need to look on a map now and see where in Maine this lake is located.

I bet it ices over in the winter - have you gone to the lake in the winter months? If there is a yacht club there must be some significant size boats on the lake - are they sail boats or motor - fishing boats or recreational boats - is it a lake that a canoeist would enjoy? Do those who use the lake come from bigger cities in Maine or are they locals - sorry lots of questions but I really would love to know more about this lake - after all this lake is on the opposite north side of this nation from where I am near Lake Travis which is only 3 1/2 hours from the Gulf of Mexico. Oh yes, do you know if Algae is a problem on the lake?
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #88 on: September 08, 2015, 03:42:13 PM »
Yes, tomorrow we do start the next section - read a post from Steph in the Library that her face to face reading group read Desert Solitaire: A Season in the Wilderness and all the guys in the group loved it -  ;) but not Steph - I have on my shelf, still not read, Aldo Leopold's A Sand County Almanac as well as a couple of Rachel Carson's books. I found, used a lovely almost new copy of The Sea Around Us - again, I am shocked how much I never knew about sea animals and wind and tide as they relate to the environment - I used to sail and canoe and thought I knew something about weather, tides, wind and currents but to just sail I can see is still only breaking the surface as to being one with the water and all that is living and inert in the water as well as above the water.

Not sure if I like what I'm learning but it is fascinating - it was so much easier wasn't it to have this romantic notion of looking at a lake however, it appears if we are going have these lakes for our grands and great grands we really have to know what the contribution of a lake is to our lives other than something pretty to look at and play in. Who said, or as I thought, being environmentally aware was easy - my inner motto was, just live as we did before all the oil based products became as common as our thumbs and left foot.

The next section goes deeper into the concept of becoming one with the lake - lots of insects are named and identified - our author starts us off on another perilous canoe trip this time in November when even the locals think he is as mad as a hatter.

The first chapter from this section is not included in the Amazon preview - so I will get busy and copy some of it and summarize other parts of this first chapter in this section.   
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Mkaren557

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #89 on: September 08, 2015, 04:18:43 PM »
Cobbossee Lake is located 5 miles west the capital city of Augusta. It feeds into Cobbossee Stream which flows into the Kennebec River at Gardiner, which is six miles miles south of Augusta.  It is about 1.5 hours drive from Popham Beach, where The Kennebec flows into the ocean.  It is 400 miles from Augusta to the tip of Maine and the Canadian border.  Because Cobbossee is surrounded by well kept roads, it is accessible all year round.  In the winter on a nice weekend afternoon, there are little villages of ice shacks and many holes in the ice where the tough fish without benefit of shelter.  There are whole families walking, roasting hot dogs over fires, skating, snowshoeing and the ubiquitous snow mobiles.  People used to take their cars on the ice and race.  And I spent many afternoons as a kid watching horses  race as well.  Algae is a big problem.  It can get like pea soup on the surface during part of the month of August and EPA lists it as a problem lake, but it is improving.  In recent years pike and invasive milfoil have appeared in the lake and an effort is being made to stop the invasion of both.  The Yacht Club is still very active and every Sunday afternoon there are Yacht Races.  Sadly, when I was almost a teen, Island Park Dance Hall burned and the park closed.  Now it is being sold piece by piece.

 

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #90 on: September 08, 2015, 05:52:04 PM »
OH my thank you for sharing - another world from anything I know - how exciting - shacks with families enjoying winter - and cars racing or horses racing on the lake - talk about a Currier and Ives print - hahaha now I have to figure out how far Augusta is from the Canadian border - talking miles is like trying to convert miles into meters  ???  - we are so used to speaking in terms of time and it is assumed that it takes into consideration the large sections where 90 miles an hour is normal - I know 3 1/2 hours to either Dallas or the Coast - because of traffic it is now nearly 3 hours to Houston - 7 1/2 to Lubbock - 8 1/2 to El Paso, a little over 5 to Shreveport La. aha I bet it is as if driving to Beaumont which is just under 4 hours - oh wait you said 400 miles - shoot, now I do have to do some research.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #91 on: September 08, 2015, 06:09:37 PM »
Got it - found it - if I were to drive to Brownsville - the tip of Texas with Mexico on the Gulf Coast it is just shy of the 400 miles - 385 to be precise and it takes about 5 1/2 hours to drive - been a few years since I drove to South Padre which is located there at Brownsville. Past San Antonio there was 'nothing' on the road. I believe there is a huge birdwatching area nearby that in recent years is bringing many from all over during the winter months. Well birdwatchers or not I've a better idea of how far you are from the Canadian border. I think I will take a trip tonight on Google Map where you turn it to the street view and go to areas near the lake - should be fun...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #92 on: September 08, 2015, 07:45:46 PM »
this next section entitled - Landscapes - start with a chapter called Edges

Quote
A man sees only what concerns him...How much more, then,
it requires different intentions of the eye and mind to attend to
different department of knowledge. How differently the poet and
the naturalist look at objects.

Henry David Thoreau

Some might describe the distinctive odor of a lake as smelly, even obnoxious. Except when the stench of rot pervades the shore, for me lake smell is alluring, as invitation that draws me like pheromone.

Geri and I are camped in a state park campground a hundred yards back in the woods from a large lake's edge. We can smell the lake from out tent. I am enveloped by that smell as i sit on a boulder inches from the water.

I have come here to immerse my sense in the shore, to follow eyes and ears and nose and fingers wherever they lead and open new "departments of knowledge," as Thoreau put it. Edges intrigue me. In edge the place one thing begins and another ceases to be? Or is it where two things blend to become one?

From my boulder, the line where water meets land traces a long gently curved crescent into the distance, clearly marking the divide between one world and another, as clear a separation as a line drawn in the sand, where my toe gets wet an one side and remains dry on the other. At least that's the way it seems.

Here the line is edged in stones. Nearly all the rocks are large, many are two feet across. Sluggish waves flood into the chambers among these boulders to melt peacefully away in nooks and crannies. Waves here are not always so passive. Geri and I once brought our newly purchased sea kayak to this lake to test its seaworthiness. A strong wind drove great waves out of the open horizon that day, hurling them toward land. Huge swells toyed with our twenty-foot craft, then threw themselves crashing onto the shore. Windows of driftwood and bulrushes decay in the trees behind me, testimony to the great energy with which waves can attack the land.

Northwest winds and the waves they produce strike the shore obliquely here. The considerable energy the breaking waves discharge to the shore does not die in the foam of the rocks, but is transferred into t mover of articles-seed grains, tiny pebbles, and, on this beach, even cobbles, leaving only the largest of rocks behind. Today's waves are too puny to move much of anything.   

more later - the remainder of the chapter will be a synopsis...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #93 on: September 08, 2015, 07:54:06 PM »
Mkaren, I like the picture you paint of the lively scene on your lake in winter.  My husband went to graduate school in Madison Wisconsin, and  said that cars would park on the ice in the winter, but come spring, there was often some optimist who didn't retrieve his car in time, and had to watch it float off on a slowly diminishing ice floe.  Did that happen on Lake Cobbossee?

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #94 on: September 09, 2015, 02:07:04 AM »
Pat what a picture an ice float car and all floating downstream - I hope they had good insurance... :'(

Ok to continue with a synopsis of this first chapter in the second section of our book - Edges - Included here are a bunch of web sites with a couple of Youtube videos that show what "characters" Darby Nelson includes in this chapter - Of course he continues his storytelling from his stage, his canoe and at one point he wears goggles as he encounters these characters. In this chapter it sounds like he is introducing his central characters with the entire chorus acknowledged in the next chapter - almost like a elementary school teacher introduces the entire cast to the appreciation of all those loving moms, dads, grandparents and siblings clapping in the audience.

The Minnow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pticYptHaKs

Mayflies - oldest insect on earth - 300 million years!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBHBfck67D8#

A delightful video of kids voices and a Mom catching crawfish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O4r8f0D064 

Marvelous interactive site with a bit about nearly all creatures that live in the water and included in this chapter.
http://www.nps.gov/webrangers/activities/waterquality/

Everything you want to know about midges
http://www.clemson.edu/cafls/departments/esps/factsheets/household_structural/midges_hs43.html

He talks of the barely there wave and how it moves the smallest grain of sand over and over again.
Good site all about beach sand
http://www.iupui.edu/~g115/mod13/lecture03.html

Here is an entire page of dragonflies in all their glory - he points out they are not aggressive and do not sting or bite
http://tinyurl.com/omy56cb

Then he includes this bit - I erupted laughing outloud - He visits a grandmother in Austin and encounters a waterbug that is a form of a roach but with a very different hangout - he hates them and from his other grandmother learned they were nasty and would enter a house like the resurrection of the black plague on the bottom of boxes and grocery sacks that had to be emptied outside the house. And yes, roaches are smaller and breed often in places that are moist and usually not clean.

Here they are known as waterbugs - same family but with a different hangout - they live in the moist grass and trees and come in houses during the summer looking for water, leaky or sweating pipes are a favorite or a dripping faucet or even a spoon still holding water left in the sink - often from a nearby tree, they come down through the attic where they had worked themselves under the shingles in their mad quest for water.

They are big - some as big as 6" and yes, gross - hate squishing them they are so big and oh what a mess - and then to top it off, he must not have visited in August because during the high dry heat of the summer I forget if it is the females or the males but they fly - sitting peacefully on your sofa and this flying elephant scrambles you from you spot - I've heard they will bite but never has one bite me but then, with a shudder I move double time tripping over my own feet to get out of their way.

Anyhow, he hates roaches and was sure, even though his Texas Grandma had the exterminators out in preparation for his visit, the one he saw skedaddle across the top of the bed he was to sleep in he was sure was a roach and that said a lot to him about this grandmother from Texas  ;D

Then after picking up some groceries and while sitting on the dock he contemplates the shoreline and what the meeting of wet and dry mean - and mentions the plant life he sees.

Water Crowfoot - pretty web site.
http://www.luontoportti.com/suomi/en/kukkakasvit/pond-water-crowfoot

Cattails - lovely site...
http://www.cattails.info/

Yellow water Lilies
http://www.fcps.edu/islandcreekes/ecology/yellow_pond_lily.htm

White water lilies
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/aquatic_plants/floatingleaf_plants/white_water_lily.html

Turtles - Never take a Turtle Home with you...
http://turtlerescueleague.com/pet/wildcapture.html

He mentions blackbirds but there are many that live near a lake - here is a link to all birds that live near water including the blue heron he sees.
http://www.whatbird.com/browse/objs/All/birds_na_147/113/Habitat/2076/Lakes,%20Rivers,%20Ponds/default.aspx

He speaks of in winter following the tummy trail in the snow of an otter
http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/american-river-otter/

All about sedges that grow in swampy areas that is the edge between dry land and the lake
http://www.bwsr.state.mn.us/wetlands/training/PlantID-sedges.pdf

Willow Dogwood shrub in northern swamps
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/restoreyourshore/pg/willowswamp.html

Here is a wonderful site all about the Aspen woodlands of the northern states - he spoke of aspen suckers.
http://buffalo.uwex.edu/files/2011/01/Aspen-Management.pdf

Reviewing his notes as he is about to leave he quotes Thoreau again, Insects occupy page after page after page. An objective reader would conclude I saw nothing else. It appears I have stumbled into the trap Thoreau warned against.

His thoughts are that his underlying premise for this visit appears flawed - my eye and my mind have different intentions to see other than what interests or directly concerns me.

Then he beautifully justifies with - The beach itself is a joint creation of lake and land. Aquatic insects feed fish in the water and birds on the land. That these insects, intimate members of food webs in both places, reproduce on land yet, rely on water to produce their young shreds the notion of separateness. A lake edge extends past where water first encounters something dry. One cannot place a single "neatly folded shadow" into two separate drawers.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

mabel1015j

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #95 on: September 09, 2015, 01:35:52 PM »
This post feeds back perfectly into your post on the Alabama "fertile crescent."

Love otters!

Jean

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #96 on: September 09, 2015, 02:31:23 PM »
Jean have you ever seen an otter? Jean where you an adult or a kid when you saw your otter trail.

Yes, it does mirror the Alabama Crescent doesn't it - it was a way to get that first chapter out since those without the book would miss this chapter - it is not included in the preview.

As a kid did you smoke punks or some called them ducktails - the matured brown cigar shape on a cattail?

We used to imitate grown men sitting back with our feet up on anything nearby and pretend but smoking punks did keep away the mosquitoes when we went nosing around in the swamp.   
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #97 on: September 09, 2015, 03:55:42 PM »
Welcome back Hats!   It is so very nice to see you again.  It's never too late to join our discussions, so jump right in .....not in the lake but the discussion.   

Barb,
Quote
Still no luck getting back my 'gone' blogs but got back into the book and to the links you've shared - Bellemarie in the second link you shared there is a whole deal about Basement flooding - is this a usual occurrence - is it the lake that floods the basements or storm - does your basement flood - do you have advanced warning with Basement's are likely to flood - what about your pool - does that ever flood over the top during the times that Basements are flooding?

I have lived in this house since 1984 and we have had three floods in our basement.  The first flood was due to our sump pump not working, so we replaced it and also had a back up water system installed in case the electricity goes out, it will run by water force.  The second and third floods were back up water sewer.  Our city has been neglectful to update our sewer system and so many neighborhoods are dealing with destroyed possessions due to constant flooding.  This past June 29th we were flooded due to constant rain, the sewers could not hold all the water, so it flooded many basements.  Luckily we had $25,000 worth of insurance coverage because it destroyed our carpet and so much more.  The adjuster estimated and allowed us $14,000 worth of damage.  We are just now finishing up restoring everything back to normal.  It took us the entire summer to complete this project because my husband was determined to do the labor himself.  I pray we never get hit again.  The city has a grant and we could install check valves to possibly prevent the backup but we have heard horror stories from people who have them, it caused water pressure on the sides of their basement walls and windows and the water forced it's way through.  As much as I enjoy lakes and other bodies of water, I hate water damage.  When we have too much rain, it causes the lakes to rise and overspill and surrounding areas get hit pretty hard.  Mostly the rain causes streets to flood and of course basements.  A neighborhood just minutes from me gets flooding constantly when it rains. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Mkaren557

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #98 on: September 09, 2015, 05:08:44 PM »
I loved lakes without knowing much about them, but this up close and personal look I am getting through Darby Nelson has opened my eyes to how alive a lake is when it is healthy.   He asks if the edge of a lake can be defined as the place where the lake ends and land begins and then goes on to show us through his great insect stories how it is not quite that cut and dry.  By the time the chapter ends, he has convinced me that the edge is where lake and land fuse together.
  I now think that the lakes were there first.  The swamps, rivers and oceans were there first.  We sometimes have to pay the price for living where we do in relation to bodies of water.  Living in Florida I see it all the time.  The swamp that they drained to build a neighborhood wins:  streets that do not drain properly causing terrible and unsafe conditions, sinkholes appear and houses, roads and lives are lost, condos built on sandy beaches right at waters edge may not stand a major hurricaine.  Homeowners rebuild in flood zones after losing everything; we keep destroying habitats to build more malls and developments.  But eventually the water will win the battle and the war.
I do have great sympathy for your basement plight, Barb. In Maine I lived on a big steep hill that is mainly granite.  I lived with a sump pump running all the time.  Nothing in my basement ever survived a rainy season.  I spent hours and days shoveling mud from the floor and yet year after year my pump ran and I went on living with it.
I do go on.  I will try to control myself in the future.  I have to add that I loved the dragonflies.  My brother called them needle bugs because he thought they were going to sew up his mouth.  Somedays I wished they would.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #99 on: September 09, 2015, 05:44:07 PM »
hahaha  I have to add that I loved the dragonflies.  My brother called them needle bugs because he thought they were going to sew up his mouth.  Somedays I wished they would. oh my as only a sister could say it aloud.  :D - and please go on... we love hearing your thoughts and experiences.

Yes, how little care we have for this earth - I do think part of it is we had no idea - I did not even know till reading another site that so much of what is known today about our environment could only be investigated after The Chaos Theory was understood that was built on the understanding by Benoit Mandelbrot, who during WWII questioned along with his Uncle, and they both developed a different way to get to but we have as a result Fractal geometry.
http://fractalfoundation.org/resources/what-is-chaos-theory/

The chaos theory has one of its principles that butterfly deal - where the tiny breeze of a butterfly in Madagascar affects our weather here in the USA. And then Fractals best served Britain's National Coastline funds for maintenance. They never had an accurate way to measure their coastline, only using a sort of linear measuring system from surveys - well the fractals allowed them to accurately measure all the ins and outs, gullies, and sharply curved rocky coastline so they finally had a real number for the coastline that was translated into a realistic budget. Their actual coastline increased in numbers by almost double and of course more funds were allocated.

It seems what is our system of rivers, lakes, ponds etc and the wild life that inhabits these wetlands is a chaotic lot that could only be understood using the Chaos theory.

And so I am not as surprised that builders and developers did their land grab - hate it, and I too easily say it is greed but really no different then the Oklahoma land rush of 1893 - no one really has a clue - we are probably on the forefront of really understanding all of what is our water ways by reading this book.

No wonder the few environmentalists are looked upon as crack pots - too bad they jumped in assuming these basics so that, not knowing, we did not jump in to support them in large numbers. 

OH yes - not me but Bellamarie that has the flooding of her basements as a sever problem

I wonder - do you know Bellamarie if the other cities built on the Great Lakes also have issues with flooding - what a mess - I know here we have periodic flooding with heavy rains and there is too much rain for the creeks as well as the rivers to handle - the city has altered one of the creeks over and over till I think 'they got it - the rain in Spain' - our close-by Shoal Creek had a lot done back after the horrible Memorial Day Flooding in '81 and part of the answer was to remove some houses that backed up to the creek - I remember driving down a few streets near the creek the next day to see to a family I was helping sell their house - it looked like a war zone with all their belongings hanging out to dry off every tree and bush and the carpet already ripped up in many of the houses out on the curb for garbage pickup. I bet that is how your street looks after these basement floods.

Do not remember where in our book I read how he noticed that the lake had flooded because of some debris high in the trees. My head picture immediately went to seeing anything from refrigerators to parts of lawnmowers and of course the usual rags hanging in the trees after the last flooding of Bull Creek. That one was so severe and started so far upstream it did affect quite a few houses.

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #100 on: September 09, 2015, 05:59:10 PM »
Ha I could not help but laugh and wonder if our idea that 'woman alone can run the world' comes from knowing about the daphnian -

"Nearly all daphnians are female. In some species males are unknown. Female cloning rules. Like mama like daughter. Making babies without sex actually has much to recommend it. No need to waste time and energy finding a mate or impressing the heart-throb in bizarre courtship rituals. No worrying about compromising one's own set of genes, one's own sex cells, with who knows what kinds of genetic mayhem some slick suitor might deliver. The random mixing of genes that results from sex produces a variety of traits in the babies that is sure to include a few genetic misfits unable to cope. In cold calculation, a waste of time and resources.

That the large daphnian in my jar has survived the challenges to this habitat to reach maturity reveal she holds a winning genome, has the right stuff, you might say, like the genetic equivalent of holding a four-of-a-kind hand, maybe even a flush, in poker. With no sex, no shuffling of the genes to mess with, she simply hands off the flush, her superior DNA, to her babies, all of them.
"   

Well what do you think - a formula for the future superior women?

I hope he was saying this with the unseen dry humor I suspect when he gave his manuscript to his wife to read.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

JoanK

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #101 on: September 09, 2015, 08:07:22 PM »
I've missed a couple of days, and what a richness I find. Thank you for the lighthouse, MKAREN. They are always fascinating, and I was surprised to learn that the state with the most lighthouses is not one on the ocean, but Minnesota with it's lakes.

All these descriptions of life on lakes! The life that fascinates me is birds. The endless variety of birds that are adapted to living on or around water is amazing. here are a few that hang out at Bolsa Chica, a tidal lake near where I live:
Black necked stilt:

http://tinyurl.com/o3feg45

JoanK

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #102 on: September 09, 2015, 08:18:57 PM »
The Black Skimmer has a lower beak that is longer than its upper. It feeds mi skimming over the water, with it's lower beak in the water, gathering up small animals. (see picture upper right. They go really fast, and I keep waiting for them to hit a rock, and go a_ _ over teakettle, but it never happens.

http://tinyurl.com/nuavmm7

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #103 on: September 09, 2015, 09:02:41 PM »
Joank as you see I shortened the URLs for you - I am so glad you posted them and also the name of the lake - I know so little about California and quick looked up Bolsa Chica - it is in Orange County - that is the southern part of the state isn't it - the many shore birds I have seen on Aransas and I do not think I ever saw these birds - are they special to California do you think.

Looks like the first bird the Black necked stilt is finding something in the wet sand to eat - I am guessing they hang out in groups - if so I could imagine them racing along the beach where a wave keeps the sand wet.

Since the lake is so close to the ocean is it affected by tide - Do you get down there often and do these birds fly inland at all - in other words is the beach the only place you can see them.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #104 on: September 09, 2015, 09:06:31 PM »
Good grief it appears I 'should' have recognized the Black Skimmer because they are according to this map that shows their range more likely found on the Gulf coast and just that small wee part of Southern California

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #105 on: September 09, 2015, 09:11:56 PM »
Well who would have guessed the Black Neck Stilt breed in places like Nevada and New Mexico - looks like the Black Neck Stilt is a true wet and dry land bird fitting in with the chapter on Edges. - Both these birds are in Brazil - talk about tying the world together through nature - this is great JoanK thanks

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #106 on: September 09, 2015, 09:29:27 PM »
Wow JoanK you live on top of GOOD NEWS - there is so little of it and this is great - California is reclaiming and restoring the area after it was used for years by Oil and Gas folks

https://www.bolsachicarestoration.org/
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #107 on: September 10, 2015, 12:39:14 AM »
Bolsa Chica is sort of an hours drive south of Torrance, where JoanK lives.  I've been there with her, and the variety of bird life is indeed astonishing.  You have to stick to the paths to avoid disturbing nests, but you can overlook plenty. 

PatH

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #108 on: September 10, 2015, 01:04:54 AM »
I'm still not caught up, but I'll throw in some insect life.  These creatures skate around on the water, using surface tension to hold them up.
I like dragonflies even better, but don't have any photos.


BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #109 on: September 10, 2015, 05:47:38 PM »
PatH the insect you shared has been driving me crazy all day - I have seen it so many times but not in our lakes but rather in the sometimes pools dependent on the season in Bull Creek - dagger, dodger, darter kept flooding my thoughts and then I knew a darter was a fish till all of a sudden it came - a strider - so I am off to learn more about a strider... :-*

First though I was poking around into Florida and look at this beauty I found - Mkaren have you ever seen one of these - almost looks like a painting rather than a photo of a real live flower - the label says it is a, " Parnassia grandifolia, Ocala National Forest, Marion County, Florida" - evidently it blooms in the fall of the year on shaded boggy banks and in swamps.

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #110 on: September 10, 2015, 05:59:38 PM »
A really nice site - the National Wildlife Federation - and here we are - all the info on a Strider

https://www.nwf.org/Wildlife/Wildlife-Library/Invertebrates/Water-Strider.aspx

Goodness the Fox River Basin is a large area that is divided geographically into three areas - yep, logical, upper, middle and lower... the site says 700 miles of stream that drains over 1000 square miles of land - wow that is 640,000 acres -

http://dnr.wi.gov/water/basin/foxil/
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #111 on: September 10, 2015, 06:17:50 PM »
Thanks for the water strider site, Barb.  I'm glad to see I had the name right.  (I didn't put it in my post because I wasn't sure, but that's what I call them.)  It wasn't in a lake; it was either a pond or a stream, I'll try to remember which.  That's an amazing photo on the wildlife site.  It's totally in focus, and the light shows you the denting of the water surface.  My striders were skittering around too fast to keep in sharp focus.  That was the best picture of four.

PatH

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #112 on: September 10, 2015, 06:44:16 PM »
Nelson doesn't mention water striders, but he talks about a lot of insects.  How many have you seen?  I know I haven't seen mayfly larvae, am uncertain about the adults.  Never saw a caddis fly, and midges aren't a feature here, thank goodness.  I've seen fewer dragonflies than I would have liked--magnificent darting things, gleaming with strange colors.  I've met more mosquitoes than I would choose, but thank goodness it's been years since I've seen a roach.  His loathing isn't illogical, though; they're disease carriers.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #113 on: September 10, 2015, 07:44:02 PM »
Like you Pat I have seen many a mayfly but never the Larvae - or at least that I know of because this book is showing my how much I have never noticed because I had no idea what I was look at or for... Also, insects were never anything i paid that much attention to - like Joan, Birds caught my attention, and small animals but mostly for me it was always what grew, from trees to underbrush and from grasses to wildflowers. I still do not have the names of common fish caught in our lakes matched to what the fish looks like. I love swimming but never thought of who or what shares the swimming space with me.

What caught my attention was when he attempts his canoe trip on the Fox River and finds the shoreline nothing but private property, the homesites for lakeside and riverside home owners. I see that here and a few spots that used to be so great to walk to received a zoning change and built their mansion where I used to take my little ones to dip their toes in the lake and to look for pollywogs in the shallows.

In one way or another we are loosing access to our heritage.  No sense gripping but rather do double time to support the work that is adding more and more public parks and access to our waterways. I am not in the financial position any longer to make a meaningful contribution but I can join a couple of the groups preserving our heritage and keep abreast of what is happening. And for sure, no more commercial fertilizer - it has been made so easy here and I did not take advantage of it - We recycle and all wood, downed tree limbs etc is brought to one site - where as, paint, oil etc to another - well the wood, limbs and sacks of leaves (no more leaf burning) is ground into tiny chips that other city composted ingredients are added for a natural fertilizer - here they call it dillo dirt - a take off word on the armadillo that is not near as prolific since the city has grown so large.   

I have experienced, the more an issue or experience is foremost on your mind the more likely you use it when chit chatting with a stranger while waiting in line for something especially, when flying and so with continued reading and learning I will keep learning more and more - in small ways I feel I can do something.

Do any of you have ideas or plans to make the saving of our heritage an item on your agenda? Really - always looking for ideas - ah just thought I may give copies of this book to my grands as Christmas gifts - now to figure out a note that will tantalize them enough to actually read the book. But ideas folks - any ideas - one may just hit a nerve...

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Mkaren557

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #114 on: September 10, 2015, 07:56:10 PM »
I have to confess that I do not frequent Florida lakes so I have not seen this amazing flower.  I am not anxious to walk the banks of water features here in the Sunshine State as I understand that alligators and poisonous snakes live there.  I do frequent Sarasota's beautiful beaches on the Gulf of Mexico.  Nothing like a sunset on Siesta Key!

PatH

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #115 on: September 10, 2015, 08:07:16 PM »
I particularly like the way Nelson describes canoeing.  He's right--you are down at water level, and you don't have the noise of a motor, or the need to pay constant attention of a sailboat.  In still water, you can stop and drift at will, and let your surroundings flow in.  It's peaceful and reflective.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #116 on: September 10, 2015, 08:17:58 PM »
You too with the gators - been thinking hard about moving nearer to my son who is over north of Houston in the part of Magnolia near the Woodlands - I was thinking a bit further north outside of Conroe near the lake and they too contend with gators in the bayous - I understand they are more of a problem over by the Trinity River and Lake Livingston - so we shall see what we shall see -

Looks like our local PBS is featuring a special tomorrow night on the loss of wetlands and the Everglades in Florida - looking forward to it after your post mentioning the losses.

Mkaren did you know anyone in Florida before you made your move or did you just up and move based on what you heard? I can see how living in Maine would take fortitude to struggle through those long icy cold winters. 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #117 on: September 10, 2015, 08:18:54 PM »
Mkaren, we were posting at the same time.  I grew up on the east coast, so am used to seeing the sun rise over the water, and have only recently been able to enjoy watching the sun set there.  It's a better time of day, though facing east you also get moonrises in the evening.  Have you ever seen the green flash?

Alligators would put me off too.  Don't think they are a problem in Minnesota. ;)

BarbStAubrey

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #118 on: September 10, 2015, 08:22:22 PM »
Yes, Pat - is it bringing back memories for you - I keep wondering if I could do it anymore - for one thing it would take weeks and weeks of getting some strength back in our arms - this would be a lovely time of the year for some canoing wouldn't it... leaves just beginning to turn and no really cold breeze yet. 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: For Love of Lakes by Darby Nelson - Sept. Book Club Online
« Reply #119 on: September 10, 2015, 09:11:16 PM »
The last time I went canoeing was 2 or 3 years ago, when my next door neighbors invited me along for a family afternoon of canoeing and kayaking on a quiet stretch of the Potomac river.  I was in a canoe with the husband, paddling in the bow, while he was in the stern, providing most of the power, and of course the steering.  I could see that I was really contributing, but wouldn't be strong enough to go it alone, and it was a pretty short trip.  It did have that wonderful feeling of peacefulness and awareness, though I was mostly watching birds, not insects and river fauna..