CRANFORD by Elizabeth Gaskell

[bellamarie]

The whole cap and turban was quite funny.  Mary Smith purposely buys Miss Matty a lavender cap instead of a sea green turban she requested to save her from looking hideous.  Miss Matty is so very disappointed yet acts like it's fine, when of course it is not:

"I am sure you did your best, my dear. It is just like the caps all the ladies in Cranford are wearing, and they have had theirs for a year, I dare say. I should have liked something newer, I confess - something more like the turbans Miss Betty Barker tells me Queen Adelaide wears; but it is very pretty, my dear. And I dare say lavender will wear better than sea-green. Well, after all, what is dress, that we should care anything about it? You'll tell me if you want anything, my dear. Here is the bell. I suppose turbans have not got down to Drumble yet?"
 
Then Mary Smith overhears:

Just as I opened the door, I caught the words, "I was foolish to expect anything very genteel out of the Drumble shops; poor girl! she did her best, I've no doubt." But, for all that, I had rather that she blamed Drumble and me than disfigured herself with a turban.

I wonder if any of us are kind enough to keep a friend from wearing something that would make them look hideous in public, or would you persuade them not to wear it?  How do you react when someone walks in a room with something outrageous on?

I went to a dinner with my sisters and brother this week.  My one sister came into the restaurant wearing a red and black plaid shirt.  My brother not thinking said, "Oh you look like Trump's girl Kelly  Ann with that shirt on."  Oh heavens it hurt my sister's feelings so badly she and her husband left the restaurant, my brother felt so bad he got up and left too.  My other two sisters and brother in law said they could not believe it happened so fast.  I saw them pulling out of the parking lot as we drove in.  I entered the restaurant and asked where they were going, they told me what had just happened.  I thought they were playing a joke on me. I asked why did he say anything to her about her shirt, what did it look like?  My sister said it was red and black checks like a lumberman's shirt.  I said, "Oh those are really in fashion, I have two of them shirts and she was so excited to tell me she got one for Christmas."   I live in a more modern fashion big city and they all still live in our small home town.  Perfect example of the cap and turban episode.  One is just not ready for the latest fashion, while the other is ready to attempt to try it out not.  Was Mary Smith and my brother wrong in not allowing Miss Matty and my sister dress the way they wanted regardless of what their personal feelings were about the fashion piece?

As Miss Matty said,  Well, after all, what is dress, that we should care anything about it?

[PatH]

Mary Smith was being asked to spend Matty's scarce money for the hat.  I see why she wouldn't want to spend it on something unbecoming.  And Matty might have come to realize it didn't look good on her, but would have to continue to wear it, since she always wore everything until it wore out.

[nlhome]

I though Mary was being very thoughtful about the turban. However, fashions and clothes and caps - all the discussion is for how they appear to other women. I guess that's the way it is with fashion.

[bellamarie]

I can't wait to see if the turbans actually come to Cranford. 

[PatH]

If they do, it'll take a while at the rate any of them can afford to buy new clothes.

[bellamarie]

It seems dressing their heads are most important than their dresses.  For me it's all about the "shoes!" 

[Jonathan]

Pat: 'Mary Smith was being asked to spend Matty's scarce money for the hat.'

Is this part of the client relationship? But only a part, judging by the  many other reflections by the author on her role in the story. And Matty's history and character. This new instalment certainly is a lot of fun, as it moves from choosing a hat to choosing a husband. Is the plot thickening?

Has there ever been a time when girls have not wanted to dress up? But personality always comes through in the end. With wonderful results these days. Chic can be achieved in a scarecrow style. But heaven forbid you should mix fashion and politcs as your brother did, Bellamarie. I feel sorry for him. But it's all the president's fault.

[JoanK]

I feel so sorry. Now all the joy in here new shirt is gone.

I loved this section, too. I have to read it again, to get all the subtle things out of it.

This "sesquipedalian" thing is gaining momentum in my family. A little bird told me my grandchildren have decided to play "stump the grands." When they visit me or their other grands, they will look up an obscure word first,  and drop it into conversation and see if they can stump us.

[bellamarie]

Oh Jonathan you made me laugh out loud.  My brother came back and ate with us, but sorry to say my sister and her husband did not.  I told him he joked to the wrong sister he should have waited til I got there because I am the Trump supporter and was ready for some kind of jibe.  He said something else about Trump and I told him, "You already got yourself in trouble tonight now it's time to stop!!"  We both had a good laugh.  I felt sorry for my sister because believe it or not it's the first attempt for us all to get together in over 20 years since the passing of my mother, our last living parent.  We will try again, and make it a rule NO political jokes or talk.   

JoanK.,  I too felt he took all the joy from her excitement of buying her new shirt.  I called her later and told her how sad I felt for her.

Yes, I think now we have a clearer understanding of the reason Mary Smith used the words, "my client" she does in fact seem to do tasks for Miss Matty and must be compensated for it.  I wonder if she also helps her manage her money since she did not purchase the turban feeling it would be a wast of her money?  It would also explain the liberty she took with Miss Matty's servants Fanny and Martha. 

I'm not sure if there was much to take from the Signor Brunoni chapter, but then I have not finished the next chapter to see if it ties into anything more.  Nothing worse than going to a magic show and having someone like Miss Pole trying to disprove the acts.

Now we WERE astonished. How he did his tricks I could not imagine; no, not even when Miss Pole pulled out her pieces of paper and began reading aloud - or at least in a very audible whisper - the separate "receipts" for the most common of his tricks. If ever I saw a man frown and look enraged, I saw the Grand Turk frown at Miss Pole; but, as she said, what could be expected but unchristian looks from a Mussulman? If Miss Pole were sceptical, and more engrossed with her receipts and diagrams than with his tricks, Miss Matty and Mrs Forrester were mystified and perplexed to the highest degree. Mrs Jamieson kept taking her spectacles off and wiping them, as if she thought it was something defective in them which made the legerdemain; and Lady Glenmire, who had seen many curious sights in Edinburgh, was very much struck with the tricks, and would not at all agree with Miss Pole, who declared that anybody could do them with a little practice, and that she would, herself, undertake to do all he did, with two hours given to study the Encyclopaedia and make her third finger flexible.

JoanK.,  How fun that will be for your grandchildren to try to stump you with new words.  They better look good and hard if they plan to stump you because not much gets by you.

[PatH]

Yes, there's a lot of good stuff in this chapter.  Look at Mr. Hayter, the "tall, thin, dry, dusty rector", so afraid of being caught by a Cranford spinster that he avoids them in shops, and at the magic show protects himself with schoolboys--"guarded by troops of his own sex from any approach of the Cranford spinsters".

And Miss Pole--she must be the stuff of nightmares for performers, scoping out their secrets ahead of time, and proclaiming their deficiencies in a loud voice from the front row.

[Mkaren557]

Good Morning to you all,
     It has been downright frosty in Sarasota for the weekend and it continues until Wednesday, but the sun is shining brightly.  Yesterday afternoon, I went to see "Hidden Figures". It was an amazing movie that I highly recommend to you all if you haven't seen it.  Then last night I went to the theater to see a play called "Brownsville Song". The structure of the play was unique, but it was not a happy play.  If anyone has seen it, let me know - -I need to talk about it.  Anyway, on to the subject at hand.

The first time I read this book, other than character in a wonderful incident with the ladies, I didn't see how he fit into the whole.  Now I see him as the foreigner, the outsider, that the ladies fear.  Notice how each of them reacts.  Then comes The Panic.  What do we learn about the ladies as individuals during this episode?  I loved Miss Matty and the ball under the bed.  My biggest fear as a child was that I would look out the window and a face would be staring in.  My mother finally had to get blinds for the windows in my room.   

[bellamarie]

I have to share an incident I had last night with all of you, it seems this book keeps tying in with my very own life somehow.  I was sitting here in my living room all snuggled in my favorite fuzzy blanket with my dog Sammy sleeping at my feet on the couch.  My hubby had left to go to coach our granddaughter's volleyball team.  I was reading the chapter Panic, and engrossed in this particular part:

]Having braved the dangers of Darkness Lane, and thus having a little stock of reputation for courage to fall back upon; and also, I daresay, desirous of proving ourselves superior to men (VIDELICET Mr Hoggins) in the article of candour, we began to relate our individual fears, and the private precautions we each of us took. I owned that my pet apprehension was eyes - eyes looking at me, and watching me, glittering out from some dull, flat, wooden surface; and that if I dared to go up to my looking-glass when I was panic-stricken, I should certainly turn it round, with its back towards me, for fear of seeing eyes behind me looking out of the darkness. I saw Miss Matty nerving herself up for a confession; and at last out it came. She owned that, ever since she had been a girl, she had dreaded being caught by her last leg, just as she was getting into bed, by some one concealed under it. She said, when she was younger and more active, she used to take a flying leap from a distance, and so bring both her legs up safely into bed at once; but that this had always annoyed Deborah, who piqued herself upon getting into bed gracefully, and she had given it up in consequence. But now the old terror would often come over her, especially since Miss Pole's house had been attacked (we had got quite to believe in the fact of the attack having taken place), and yet it was very unpleasant to think of looking under a bed, and seeing a man concealed, with a great, fierce face staring out at you; so she had bethought herself of something - perhaps I had noticed that she had told Martha to buy her a penny ball, such as children play with - and now she rolled this ball under the bed every night: if it came out on the other side, well and good; if not she always took care to have her hand on the bell-rope, and meant to call out John and Harry, just as if she expected men-servants to answer her ring.

All of a sudden a very hard loud knock came at my front door.... I jumped off the couch and getting my bearings about me tried to think who it could be at this hour of the night.  My dog immediately started barking.  I hesitated to open my inside door knowing the screen door would not be locked because my hubby had left out of it and I did not follow him to lock it as I usually do.  I waited a few seconds trying to decide if I should answer it.  I thought how silly I am being it's just this book that has me rattled.  I cracked the door and saw it was my neighbor across the street.  He said, "I noticed Kathy (our neighbor lady who is single) garage door is up and she has been gone for awhile now and I was worried about someone breaking into her house.  I know Joe (my hubby) has her combination to the garage since he does her lawn for her and maybe he could go close the garage door.  I replied, "Joe will be home in a few minutes I will tell him and I will call Kathy to let her know the garage door is open."  I called Kathy and immediately she was frightened that someone could be in her house and she was leaving to come home.  I told her when she gets home to let me know and I will have Joe go in her house first to make sure no one has broken in.  All ended well, no break ins, the garage door has been acting up and she needs to get it fixed.  Phew.....  after I found out all was okay I laughed and told my hubby about reading the scary part of the book then this happening really got me all spooked out. 

I grew up in a small town and we always left our doors unlocked during the day.  My step father had a gun collection in his bedroom and one night we were frightened in the middle of the night and I remember him taking down one of his shotguns, loading it and sitting in the living room waiting to see if anyone tried to enter our house.  He was a hunter and nothing scared him, but I sure was frightened all the time living in the rural part of the town with acres of land around us. Having to go down to our dark basement with a coal bin used to scare the crap out of me.  I would hum or sing all the while going into the back laundry room then run to the stairs once I got what I needed. 

Karen I am with you.....  every night I walk into my kitchen I glance at my back door imagining a face staring in at me.  I always open my basement door so it blocks seeing in the back door.  I could put up curtains but I love the light coming in during the day.

[Mkaren557]

Is it just me?  I have noticed that older people are very suspicious of many things.  I know that there are those who are out to prey on us (the 10-12 phone calls to my phone prove it) but at my condo people seem to immediately jump to the worst conclusion about every situation.  It really reminds me of Cranford.  New tenants are taking over our parking spaces and are probably "renters" (I am a renter);  sales people are trying to rip them off everywhere, a broken car window immediately means vandals, robbers, thieves.  I innocently asked if the window could have been broken by accident and someone is not admitting it.  They looked at me as if I were crazy.  No, it had to be a criminal.  The following things immediately raise suspicion:  a car running in the parking lot, a strange car, someone unfamiliar in the pool.  There are conspiracy theories running rampant about everything from the cable company trying to control us to the government going through our recyclables, to management trying to get us to move out.  So I understand the Panic. 

[JoanK]

Yes, we elderly do get timid. the woman I bought my condo from was like that. there are four locks on the front door and three on the back. All of the windows were nailed shut (in a hot climate with no air conditioning). It's a very safe neighborhood. In seven years, I've never seen a hint of trouble.

When I was a child, I was convinced a burglar was going to climb in one of my bedroom windows. I would lie awake with my head swiveling from one to the other.

I like the way Gaskell describes the different levels of superstition in the different women. Notice, the narrator does not take a stand. In fact, she makes more fun of the "rational" Miss Pole, than of the superstitious ones. Of course, she knows her readers must have the same varieties of opinion.

[JoanK]

Miss Pole is typical of the "nerds" of today: wrapped up in a technical explanation, and completely oblivious to the social situation she is creating. As a nerd myself, I'm delighted to meet her in a Victorian novel, and see Gaskell recognizing that women can be as nerdy as men. Poor Miss Pole; if she lived today, she could be working in a nerdy occupation with other nerds.

[bellamarie]

The whole Samuel Brown chapter seemed a bit confusing to me.  Gaskell wants to be done with the home robberies and fears the ladies are experiencing so the whole plot of Signor Brunoni having a wife and being ill, and his real name being Samuel Brown who has a twin brother got me lost. 

The end of their conversation with the Signora Brunoni was that it was agreed that he should be placed under medical advice, and for any expense incurred in procuring this Lady Glenmire promised to hold herself responsible, and had accordingly gone to Mr Hoggins to beg him to ride over to the "Rising Sun" that very afternoon, and examine into the signor's real state; and, as Miss Pole said, if it was desirable to remove him to Cranford to be more immediately under Mr Hoggins's eye, she would undertake to see for lodgings and arrange about the rent. Mrs Roberts had been as kind as could be all throughout, but it was evident that their long residence there had been a slight inconvenience.

But, although we had no more fear, everybody did as much as if there was great cause for anxiety - as indeed there was until Mr Hoggins took charge of him.[/b]

I especially liked the part where Miss Matty shares with Mary Smith how she had felt as a child:

But, after all, I have not told you the truth. It is so long ago, and no one ever knew how much I thought of it at the time, unless, indeed, my dear mother guessed; but I may say that there was a time when I did not think I should have been only Miss Matty Jenkyns all my life; 
 
What a great idea their father had, I really liked this.

"My father once made us," she began, "keep a diary, in two columns; on one side we were to put down in the morning what we thought would be the course and events of the coming day, and at night we were to put down on the other side what really had happened.


And look what just may be the return of Peter!!

But an idea had flashed through my head; could the Aga Jenkyns be the lost Peter? True he was reported by many to be dead. But, equally true, some had said that he had arrived at the dignity of Great Lama of Thibet. Miss Matty thought he was alive. I would make further inquiry.

[PatH]

The "burglary" chapter is an amusing tale of overactive imagination.  There are two real robberies, with the criminals caught.  The next month or so, everyone is in terror, seeing robbers everywhere, many stories of suspicious characters and failed attempts.  There is no real evidence of this whatever, the nearest thing being some male footprints in Mrs. Jamieson's flowerbed, which could very well belong to an admirer of one of the maids.  Although they have no reason to suspect Signor Brunoni, who has disappeared, once he shows up and is found to be harmless, the scare goes away.

[bellamarie]

Thank you PatH.,  for simplifying it for me.  I have been in the midst of painting, tearing out carpet and redecorating for my upstairs master bedroom and guest room and think I was on overload when I read it.  I actually tried reading it again but found it still a bit confusing when Gaskell brought in the Signor and his twin.   

[Jonathan]

from Karen: '...but at my condo people seem to immediately jump to the worst conclusion about every situation.  It really reminds me of Cranford.'

from Joan: 'It's a very safe neighborhood. In seven years, I've never seen a hint of trouble.'

For the ladies of Cranford the'present disturbed state of the country' makes it venturesome to accept an invitation from Mrs. Forrester to celebrate the anniversary of her wedding-day. Something they've been doing for years. Otherwise, Mrs. Forrester 'would be left to a solitary retrospect of her not very happy or fortunate life.'

Poor Mrs. Forester. In this segment we also hear about 'poor Carlo' and 'poor little Phoebe'.  And now Miss Pole gets the nod from Joan. Poor Miss Pole.

What a marvellous read. What a great mix of pathos and humor. The comical and the tragic. Hilarity and heartbreak. Sudden stark images. Like the 'tall, thin, dry, dusty' rector pointed out by Pat. Let me draw your attention to that ' mouldy odour of aristocracy lingering about the place'...the assembly room where the conjurer performed.

Is there anything more heartbreaking than Mrs. Brown's tale of woe? I've lost six children...Yes! Six children died off...in that cruel India. And how uplifting  when she finds peace and comfort in the picture of the Virgin and the Child. And a place to thank her God in the native temple, made sacred by others who had prayed there to their God, in their joy or their agony.

It seems to me that in this instalment Miss Matty begins to live a life of her own. The turban is a sign of it. We may be puzzled by things that were very familiar to her readers.

[Mkaren557]

        Today we are moving on if you are ready.  The plan has us finishing the book on February 14.  However, I suggest we just keep reading from here on in.  And discuss or comment as something strikes you.  Some questions to spur you on.  What is the connection between Mary Smith and the Jenkyns family?  Does your opinion of her change at all.  Do you think Peter Jenkyns will return as suggest by Bella?  What will become of the ladies of Cranford as the "inevitable" changes occur?  Are there any connections that you can make now that you missed earlier in the book?
         So let us begin the end!

[PatH]

Jonathan, the book is so full of sly little digs.  Another favorite of mine, when speaking of Lady Glenmire's goodness to the Browns: "Who says that the aristocracy are proud? Here was a lady, by birth a Tyrrell, and descended from the great Sir Walter that shot King Rufus, and in whose veins ran the blood of him who murdered the little Princes in the Tower, going every day to see what dainty dishes she could prepare for Samuel Brown, a mountebank!"

In other words nobility means being descended from murderers.  (King Rufus was William II, who was assassinated in a "hunting accident", and it was Richard III who supposedly murdered the little Princes.)

[Mkaren557]

So, what is Gaskell trying to say about the aristocracy in this book? 

[bellamarie]

MKaren, 

I suggest we just keep reading from here on in.  And discuss or comment as something strikes you.

So are we to finish reading the book and discuss it starting today thru the 14th?

Jonathan and PatH.,  I admire how the two of you are able to see so much more than others in this story.  I have been finding these past chapters to be a bit jumbled.  I have reread them and still get this odd feeling Gaskell is trying to wrap things up pretty much like we will be doing with these last chapters.  Did this story get away from Gaskell?  Better yet, has this story ever really been put together as a story or just bits and pieces of a glimpse into a life in Cranford from the ladies view?  Jonathan has probably described it perfectly:

Jonathan,    "What a great mix of pathos and humor. The comical and the tragic. Hilarity and heartbreak."

Okay off to finish the book..... 

[Mkaren557]

I think we can go ahead and finish the book and maybe we will try to finish discussing it by the 10th which gives us 11/2 weeks.  Lets still try to discuss it it flows naturally.  I just think it would get us to the point where we can talk about the whole book and not worry about giving anything away.
Bella, I like your style; let's all read, if we can, so we are finished in a couple of days.  The last chapters go very quickly. Please don't feel pressured to keep up like in school, but keep moving at a rate that allows you to appreciate the book.

[PatH]

So, what is Gaskell trying to say about the aristocracy in this book?

I think she's saying that titles or noble blood, in spite of the importance people attach to them, are no guarantee of personal worth.  The highest ranking one of the group, Lady Glenmire, is genuinely a good person, friendly, compassionate, generous, considerate.  The next highest ranking, Mrs. Jamieson, is self-centered, self-indulgent, cares little about hurting the feelings of others.  Good and bad people come at all levels.

In the example I quoted, she's also simply having fun with a good joke.

[nlhome]

I had to take my copy back to the library as it was an inter-library loan. But didn't I read somewhere that these were written as installments for a periodical, then later put together into a novel, which might explain the choppiness at times?

I did find the last chapters a faster read. I remembered about half way through that I had read this book quite awhile ago, so this 2nd reading made more sense.

[Mkaren557]

     Thank you nlhome for being a part of the group.  Yes, I think that the way the book was put together definitely addicts the flow.  It also confuses the chronology as well.  Yet, the book seems to me to hold together.  Do any of you see things that may serve to unify the various stories?

[Mkaren557]

At this time England is moving from an economy based on agriculture to an industrial base.  This has really hurt the landed aristocracy.  The value of what they are producing has decreased and trying to maintain their estates is becoming more and more difficult.  Their place in society is being challenged by the Captains of Industry who are even purchasing bankrupt estates.  In Cranford member of the aristocracy is even marrying out of her class. 

[Jonathan]

Such interesting comments from all of you about Gaskell's style, or lack of it, in Cranford. ' Choppiness', 'Confused chronology, 'She's trying to wrap things up', 'The story is getting away from her'. 'She's also simply having fun with a good joke.''

And so should the reader. And a bit of laughter through tears.

What Gaskell says about the aristocracy is interesting, especially in the light of what Karen tells us:' The landed aristocracy was hurting. Their place in society is being challenged.' Of course. Then she could allow herself to point out 'the mouldy odour of aristocracy lingering about the assembly hall.'

On second thought, she's not happy with that; and hardly a half dozen pages later she has something nicer to say about them. The robbers couldn't be citizens of Cranford.

The Cranford people respected themselves too much, and were grateful to the aristocracy who were so kind as to live near the town, ever to disgrace their bringing up by being dishonest or immoral; therefore, we must believe that the robbers were strangers.'

Or was it just Mrs. Forrester's feelings on the subject? I'm not so sure about Mrs. Gaskell's. But she does make it interesting for the reader.

[bellamarie]

I finished the book and I have to say as much as men are not seen in Cranford, they are essential.  I venture to guess Gaskell wanted to show that while women have a sisterhood that is important to their day to day lives, men are the backbone of the community.  The men go off and work allowing the women to choose to work of not.  The men leave the inheritances for their daughters and wives giving them the option to either remarry or not marry at all.  Men do not have the luxury of those choices in Cranford.  These last chapters just grabbed at my emotions.  So much to discuss...

ar·is·toc·ra·cy
ˌerəˈstäkrəsē/noun
the highest class in certain societies, especially those holding hereditary titles or offices.
synonyms:  nobility, peerage, gentry, gentility, upper class, ruling class, elite, high society, establishment, haut monde; More
a form of government in which power is held by the nobility.
a state governed by the aristocracy.
plural noun: aristocracies

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS722US722&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=aristocracy+definition

I think even though these ladies in Cranford held no titles like Lady Glenmire, they were caught up in the mind set of being aristocrats. It reminds me of Alice In Wonderland, she gets so caught up in all the world after falling down the rabbit hole she becomes a part of the wonderland world, only to wake up and find she is really not of that world at all. 

When Miss Matty falls to poverty it shows how all the rest of the women are not of great wealth and could very well see themselves in ruins.  As they all take Mary Smith individually into confidence they reveal they haven't much to donate but would still like to give something.  Miss Matty has scarce money but is rich in friendships.  She has lived a life of always caring for others feelings, being honest and fair thus, it comes back around to her in her time of need.

I told him of the meeting of the Cranford ladies at Miss Pole's the day before. He kept brushing his hand before his eyes as I spoke - and when I went back to Martha's offer the evening before, of receiving Miss Matty as a lodger, he fairly walked away from me to the window, and began drumming with his fingers upon it. Then he turned abruptly round, and said, "See, Mary, how a good, innocent life makes friends all around. Confound it! I could make a good lesson out of it if I were a parson; but, as it is, I can't get a tail to my sentences - only I'm sure you feel what I want to say.

This sentence told the entire story of who Miss Matty is..."It was really very pleasant to see how her unselfishness and simple sense of justice called out the same good qualities in others."

One of my favorite lines in the entire book is: 

when my letter had reached him; and, with the odd vehemence which characterised him in age as it had done in youth, he had sold his land and all his possessions to the first purchaser, and come home to the poor old sister, who was more glad and rich than any princess when she looked at him. [/b]

No amount of money or titles can buy or hold this kind of happiness, love and joy in a person's lifetime.

[rosemarykaye]

Hi all - just to say. I am still here, and to apologise for not having participated this week. I was away to Paris last weekend to visit my husband, and somehow if I am not at home Friday/Sunday everything seems to get away from me. This week has been very busy too, and tomorrow my son and his fiance are arriving for this weekend...

Anyway, just had to say how much I recognise what you describe, MKaren, about older people being so suspicious. I think it is maybe part of the fear that seems to encompass everything for some people as they get older. My mother-in-law was convinced there was someone staking out their house because she could see someone moving about outside at 5am every morning - turned out to be the milkman, who has been delivering to her for many years, but she still will not accept this. I also recall that when my mother used to visit a friend who lived in a retirement development, she told me that during one of her visits the residents noticed that someone had parked a motorcycle on the road beside their flats. (NB this was not on a private road or in anyone's parking space). After heated discussion about this they actually went outside and let the air out of the motorcycle's tyres. Can you believe that? If they saw a young person doing it they would have reported them to the police, but somehow it was OK for them.

My own mother is very sensible, but my in-laws are paranoid about everything these days. Everyone is out to get them, take their money, disadvantage them in some way, etc. I think it is very sad that people come to this, and I sincerely hope I have my mother's genes!

I live in a top floor tenement flat now, but when my children were babies we lived in an old house on the edge of a remote village in Aberdeenshire. I never locked the doors, nor did I ever lock my car. Here in the city cars do need to be locked, but I still feel pretty safe - or maybe I am just naive?

Rosemary

[Frybabe]

I am not too far behind, I guess.

Near the beginning of Chapter 12 I ran across the narrator's remark that her father had to preside over a ladies' committee. It struck me that something similar occurred in The Moonstone (I think I have the right book) where one of the male characters presided at or over a ladies' committee. So, my question is, was that common? Were 19th century ladies' committees of various sorts deemed or required to need a man to lead such meetings?

[PatH]

Yes, it was The Moonstone.  The character, Godfrey Ablewhite, is a well-known public speaker for charitable causes, and heads the committees of ladies who do the charitable work.  The committees sound dreadful--the Ladies Trouser Reduction Society, in which they get hold of the clothing the dissolute men have pawned, presumably to buy drink, and cut them down to fit the men's unfortunate children.

But I have no idea if it was necessary to have ladies' committees led by men.

[Jonathan]

That's a wonderful explanation. Gaskell caught the Amazons of Cranford in an extended Senior moment and made a vivid chapter out of it.

[bellamarie]

This book was fun and yet sad at times to read.  I was so happy it ended the way it did with Peter returning to live with Miss Matty.  I could see in time maybe Mary Smith and Peter marrying.  I know he is older than her but we never did determine how much younger Mary Smith is compared to the ladies.  She sure seemed a bit jealous when Peter gave Mrs. Jamieson so much attention.

Daughters and Wives was the first novel I read by Elizabeth Gaskell and I think it will remain one of the my favorite books of all time.  Cranford was too disoriented for me.  I never really connected to the characters until the last couple of chapters. 

[Mkaren557]

Bella,  what prevented you from connecting with the characters?  Why were you able to connect in the ending chapters? 

[JoanK]

I have fallen in love with this book, and never want it to end.  may start over again, and pick up some of the little things I missed on the way.

What a lovely way the ladies of Cranford solved Miss Mattie's problem. Social Security, Cranford style. (were there discussions at the time of some sort of pension system for women?)

The feminist part of me loves the fact that, while the women always claim they don't understand finance, and turn to men for money matters, it is the women who find the solution (Martha and the nerd with the heart of gold, Miss Pole).

I was surprised to hear that Miss Mattie was only 58. Oh, to be 58 again!

[bellamarie]

I felt Gaskell did not give us enough of each character to connect with.  I sort of felt like the visitations, short and sweet and not long enough to get too involved in who they really were.  I felt I knew Deborah more than any of the other characters because she seemed to have the most interaction, and Miss Matty kept her alive in memories letting us get to know more about the person Deborah was.  I felt Peter is the first character I connected to early on and was so happy he returned still the same fun person he had always been and oh so loving and caring for his sister.  We only got to really know Miss Matty and how kind she was at the end of the book when she was down and out and little bits came out of how she had helped others at certain points of their lives.  When she helped the man who could not use his note from the bank by her giving him her money was the first time those qualities came out.  I just felt the book was choppy as far as the characters were concerned. 

I was actually not going to continue reading the book and talked myself into finishing it.  I am very happy I stayed with it because the best chapters were the ending chapters.  The sisterhood coming together to help Miss Matty and Mary Smith helping her begin her tea business was nice, but the chapter where Peter returned was my very favorite.

[Mkaren557]

Good Morning, All,
      I am away this weekend at my fellow Mariner's house in Sebring, Fl to watch the Super Bowl.  I am loving all your comments and your reactions as you finish the book.  I hope you will continue to check in as you have further thoughts. 

Bella-  I am so surprised to red that you almost did not finish the book.  You have been such an involved member of the book club and have contributed such astute and meaningful insights all through our read.  I understand your comments about the development of the characters. At the conclusion of thee book, there is still more I want to know about them.  Perhaps because we read the book in sections added to the choppiness of the narrative for you and others.  Many Victorian books were serialized in this way and as I think about Dickens there is an episodic flow in some of his novels.  Anyway thank you for being such a great reader.  You found the humor and the foreshadowing and made wonderful connections to our lives today.  Thank you for sharing so much of yourself.

Joan-  I am so glad you have grown to love this book.  I have reread this I don't know how many times and this time all of you have helped me find other things to love.  For instance, believe it or not, I missed the actual age of Miss Matty which you pointed out. Joan, this points out how young we all in 2017, even though our chronological age is much older than Miss Matty's. 

Frybabe -  I am not sure that all committees had a man at the head, but even though the ladies have figured out how to help Miss Matty, at the end Mary's father is summoned to finalize things.  I remember that when I was in my teens, I read articles in teen magazines that suggested that if I wanted a boyfriend, I should defer to him about all decisions and I should never try to show him up and actually let him win.  I am not sure these attitudes have totally disappeared.   

[PatH]

Bellamarie, I'm glad you stuck with the book and got your reward.  The book does build toward the more dramatic events at the end.