Author Topic: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform (Read 102577 times)

Babi · « **Reply #120 on:** July 22, 2009, 10:12:24 AM »

Now is the time, while the Bill will be under discussion, to contact your
Representatives with the points raised here. Obviously, no one in their
right mind would insist on maternity insurance for the elderly!

bellemere · « **Reply #121 on:** July 22, 2009, 11:28:23 AM »

Janet is absolutely right. We all owe it to ourselves to understand the provisions of the proposed health care reform bill HR3200 The whole thing, in the Library of Congress version , is available online. it is such heavy legalese, however , that I have been looking for fair and unbiased summaries of the bill's provision. this is not easy. The opponents are bombarding the intenet with doomsday misinterpretations, everything from economic collapse to forded abortions to eithanizing grandma and always the good old reliable red herring, "socialism" t But I did find a few. Hint: the fairest reports refer to "Presiden Obama" or "the President" the most biased oppontens refer to "Obama"
Here are some I found: MSNBC has put together a "timetable" of what would happen and when under the proposed bill. Google MSNBC and Health Care Reform Timetable. I found this very helpful.
Second, Ezra Klein of the Washington Post has a summary of the main provisions of the bill, but not all. Google Washington Post Ezra Klein Health Care Summary.
Finally the staff of the House Education and Labor committee has a fairly plain language summary of the whole thing. Perhaps this is the most partisan of the three that I found, but it is complete; it is in plain language and I now understand o lot of fine points I never heard of before. Google ed/labor committee Affordable Health for All, or something like that.Finally I was steered to these by the St. Louis Examiner "Summary of summaries" a very short succint, but not complete report by their staff.
So put down that summer novel and start studying before you fire off any mail to Congress.

G

bellemere · « **Reply #122 on:** July 22, 2009, 11:35:08 AM »

Hey Babi, haven't we seen a few stunts by some women trying to see how late in life they can have a baby? What is the record now, 60 plus? Every loony tune seems to want her fifteen minutes of reproductive fame, it seems.
'/

Steph · « **Reply #123 on:** July 22, 2009, 03:01:29 PM »

We desperately need health care for all. We are the last of the so called civilized nations that have nothing to work as a net for all of our citizens. Turning it into a political football drives me nuts. Opposing it because Obama wants it is so foolish. I know that it could be improved, but we need to pass some basic plan and then work on it..

nlhome · « **Reply #124 on:** July 22, 2009, 03:44:07 PM »

Bellemere, I haven't read the bill. Just got back from vacation.
I can say, however, that the subsidies to the Medicare Advantage plans are being gradually eliminated already, as well they should, because it costs Medicare more per person for those in the Advantage plans vs. those in original Medicare. Medicare Advantage and Medicare Part D are hastening the day when Medicare goes "in the hole."

n

bellemere · « **Reply #125 on:** July 22, 2009, 03:51:58 PM »

Steph, let your rep know what you think should stay in the bill and what needs to go, or be changed. I am looking at the subsidy for the purchase of insurance that will go to low income people. It wil subsidize people making up to 400 percent of the poverty line. i think that should be lower; 300 per cent should be enought. I lke the idea of a Health Care Exchange, a lot like the stock exchange where people can choose their plans. and that you can keep the insurance you have if you like it. But your Plan may have to change. they will not be able to discriminate against peole with pre-existing conditionsl Goodl And they must also pay out a certain portion of there priemium income by (GASP) actually paying claims. Bur I saw no mention of giving Medicare the power to negotioate prices with the drug companies. What happened to that?
Meanwhile my own G.P. , for fifteen years now, tells me he is going to retire in a year or so to spend more time organizing hsi collection of rare and antique books, and visiting his mother in Costa Rica! His mother? What about ME?

Babi · « **Reply #126 on:** July 23, 2009, 08:32:15 AM »

BELLEMERE, thanks for the tips. That will be a great help. As for the nuts
who think they want a baby at 60+, how many could possibly succeed?

Steph · « **Reply #127 on:** July 23, 2009, 02:26:09 PM »

I honestly believe that women over 45 and anyone with multiple children should have to undergo extensive psychological testing before these physicians are allowed to do in vitro or any other procedure.
We are not eligible for Medicare advantage where I live . Just regular medicare... and have very few medigap as well.But I like our AARP medigap very much.

ginny · « **Reply #128 on:** July 24, 2009, 08:40:25 AM »

60+ having babies!! That's carrying the national obsession with looking and being "young" to major extremes!!!!

I wonder how much of the medical industry is taken up with people's efforts to "stay young and beautiful."

At any rate, this is a wonderful and very useful and informative discussion. Since the President was on TV was it night before last addressing this very subject, I think we'll want to leave this open when the various bills begin to appear so we can discuss some of the suggested ramifications, some of which look somewhat threatening. Let's leave it open, this subject could not be more important or au courant.

Steph · « **Reply #129 on:** July 24, 2009, 09:32:02 AM »

Yes , this discussion has legs as they say. It would be helpful if the papers would start putting the various plans side by side and comparing them.. But that wont happen until the end.

bellemere · « **Reply #130 on:** July 24, 2009, 05:31:45 PM »

The only Plan that has passed anywhere is the House Plan, 3200
Amazing that it passed. Say what you will about Nancy Pelosi, she sure knows how to herd that bunch of cats.
Let's leave it open. Some pundit will give us a comparison of the final versions, and there will be plenty of bloviating by both sides.
I confess to being a liberal on the access question and a conservative on the cost issue. I also confess to thinking that it is too costly as it stands now. I also know that I dont want additional savings to come out of Medicare. But I also know that they probably have to.

Janet · « **Reply #131 on:** July 24, 2009, 07:28:53 PM »

Comment removed.

nlhome · « **Reply #132 on:** July 24, 2009, 08:22:13 PM »

This site has a lot of information on health care reform, Medicare, etc.:
http://www.kff.org/
and they have a bill comparison that was updated about a week ago:

http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/healthreform_sbs_full.pdf

It's one source anyway.

bellemere · « **Reply #133 on:** July 25, 2009, 09:51:25 AM »

Right, the HR 3200 is not passed; just published in a final form agreed on by the three House Committees.

nlhome · « **Reply #134 on:** July 25, 2009, 01:26:35 PM »

Here's a better site for comparison, and it was updated yesterday, according to the site.

http://www.kff.org/healthreform/sidebyside.cfm

Steph · « **Reply #135 on:** July 25, 2009, 03:32:09 PM »

You worried me. I thought I had missed something important, but the bill was not brought up. The bluedog dems are balking. I feel strongly about access. I owned retail stores , know I could not afford health care for the help, but knew they needed it so desperately. It is such a catch 22 for small business owners.

bellemere · « **Reply #136 on:** July 25, 2009, 07:40:16 PM »

Why do you think this costs so much? Other countries give access to health care to all their citizens, and we are much much richer than all of them put together.

Steph · « **Reply #137 on:** July 26, 2009, 04:44:03 PM »

Our health care is the worlds most expensive. We just love new and different and new machines. Other countries are slower to adopt all of the new stuff. Prescriptions seem to be controlled in many cases by the government, which helps a good deal.

bellemere · « **Reply #138 on:** July 27, 2009, 08:53:33 AM »

I just wonder at the fact that all these countries with health care for all are not going trillions of dollars into debt. and none of them are scrambling to adopt our system, instead of the one they have. I know that well-heeled Canadians come across the border for electibe treatment in our hospitals sometimes but I believe they are bringing their Maple Leaf health insurance card which our hospitals gladly take. they know the money is good.

Steph · « **Reply #139 on:** July 28, 2009, 03:25:45 PM »

I have no direct knowledge, but have read about the number of people going to other countries to have surgery.. Seems that it is so much cheaper in most countries even without their insurance.. Also good.. Anyone have any experience with this??

Janet · « **Reply #140 on:** July 28, 2009, 06:33:48 PM »

Comment removed.

nlhome · « **Reply #141 on:** July 29, 2009, 08:02:38 AM »

It's politics, and will probably be changed.
Republicans are branding a public option for health care as "government run healthcare" as if it is a bad thing. The Democrats are stupidly trying censorship rather than admitting the truth and pointing out that Medicare already is public health care.

Steph · « **Reply #142 on:** July 29, 2009, 09:42:27 AM »

Hooray.. You said it. I am a recipient of government health care as a medicare senior. I pick my own doctors and hospitals. Thus far nothing has ever been turned down that has been submitted, although with my husband having radiation, I am always amazed at how the hospitals gouge people. What they charge for a 30 second treatment and of course the doctor who isnt even there gets a fee as well.. Its like my mamm. There was one charge for the mammo.. A second double fee for the recall and now I just got the notice from medicare for the doctor who read them.. They are digital for heavens sakes.. Incredible.. Mammos used to cost 90.00.. that is before I was on Medicare and paid them that day.. They charge medicare triple that without any hesitation.

bellemere · « **Reply #143 on:** July 29, 2009, 10:22:43 AM »

Unless there is some kind of public option for health care, it will again be open season on consumers' wallets for the private healthe insureres. The status quo will get worse and worse. A public plan would be free to experiment with new deliveryh systems instead of fee for service. Everybody loves to call it "socialized" medicine,"
congressmen are free to communicate anything they want to their consitutents. "Franking" means they dont have to pay any postage for it.

I think there is a little of the "drawbridge " mentality among supporters of the present system. "I've got mine, Jack" and who really cares about uninsured people when what we have is so satisfactory.
Again, I think the subsidy for health insurance should go down to 3 times the poverty level, as in the Massachusetts Commonwealth Care option. Would save billions. And health insurance employers' benefits should be taxed as income, perhaps at a lower rate than eanted income. That would generate more income. And malpractice insurance costs should be addressed. This is a litigation obsessed society and becoming more so. At the very least, "pain and suffering" awards should be capped. the trial lawyers wouldnt like that, but people could still be compenated for medical ngegligence.

Steph · « **Reply #144 on:** July 30, 2009, 08:24:39 AM »

I agree about the medical malpractice. There are certainly mistakes in medicine all the time, but the number of law suits that are stupid are amazing. It is obviously not the doctors fault if your child is not perfect in most cases, but the number of people who sue because they had a child with a problem is amazing.. The number of people who sue and win when the accident was their fault is amazing to me.. I mean I remember a person in Massachusetts who was breaking into a pawn store and got caught up in a glass skylight, fell through and promptly sued the building owner.. He actually got money.. I could not believe it.

bellemere · « **Reply #145 on:** July 30, 2009, 10:02:24 AM »

What about the birdbrain who sued McDonald's after she drove away witha cup of hot coffee between her knees and burned herself? On the other hand we have the surgeon who left a patient on the table while he went out to the ATM to cover a check, and then came back and finished the operation? He lost his medical license of course and an undisclosed settlement was announced. I thought he should do hard time!

Janet · « **Reply #146 on:** July 30, 2009, 05:06:38 PM »

Comment removed.

bellemere · « **Reply #147 on:** July 30, 2009, 10:32:21 PM »

Would love to see a breakdown of who are the uninsured and the underinsured? But I suspect they are mostly just people who do not have stable employment; or are laid off and too young for Medicare; the existing system doesn't have to be destroyed but it has to be stretched.
The idea of member owned co=ops is interesting. As private organizations they could perhaps receive large grants form foundations like Gates and the like, which cannot be received by either government or profit making insurance companies.
Is anyone really worried about illegal aliens? Or irresponsible young people? 46 million is a lot of people to characterize as irresponsible, profligate in their spending and unwilling to pay for health insurance. As for the people who have no need for health insurance, I can't comment. don't know anyone like that.
I still maintain there is a streak of drawbridge mentality in opposition to some aspects of the health care plans proposed. But keeping the insurance you have sounds like a great thing, but the trend is toward more expensive premiums and reduced beneifts in health insurance.
The insurance you have may not be the insurance you will have in five or six years.

Steph · « **Reply #148 on:** July 31, 2009, 08:38:56 AM »

You want uninsured. Go to small retail businesses. They generally have under 10 employes in small stores and simply cannot afford to buy health insurance for their help. They pay minimum or close to it as well. Not because they are greedy, but they simply do not make enough money to even insure themselves.
Small restaurants.. they never buy insurance for their employees. There are a lot of small business owners that would love to insure their employees, but simply do not generate enough money to do so.
And yes there is quite a bit of "I've got mine" and it mostly in the Senate and house of Representative. Most people would love to have their insurance, which continues the rest of their lives..

nlhome · « **Reply #149 on:** July 31, 2009, 09:12:32 AM »

I agree that most of the uninsured are not by choice. As for people who have enough money to cover their own medical costs - only multi-millionaires can do that. Those people who think they are healthy and thus don't "need" insurance are ignorant of the costs of something so normal as having to have their appendix removed. Then they need a bailout by the rest of us. And Bellemere, you're right, those of us who have great insurance now and want to keep it are foolish if we not recognizing the reality that such great insurance will either be nonexistent or unaffordable a few years down the road if nothing is done to the whole system.

The ranks of the uninsured are growing every day by thousands as people lose their jobs or employers have to stop covering their employees. And this is before all the "horrors" of health care reform.

Then there is the issue of the underinsured. I believe that health savings accounts are counted as those who are insured - but I know people in those health savings accounts who will be broke before they reach the level where their catastrophic coverage kicks in. There are a lot of issues here - it's not simple.

bellemere · « **Reply #150 on:** July 31, 2009, 01:21:43 PM »

I had a semi=serious idea of how to capture the young immortals, who we certainly need in the "Pool" of insured people. HOw about: no health insurance, no car insurance, thus no car registration. But I suppose some would be clever enough to get around that.
Another underinsured group: rural folks, trying to maintain marginal farming or small trades. When a region is sparsely populated, the insurers don' t want to insure the residents. I guess they can't collect enough in premiums.

Steph · « **Reply #151 on:** August 01, 2009, 09:34:56 AM »

I had read that in many counties, the small farmers cannot find insurers that will cover them. All boils down to how many, I would guess. Another arguement for some sort of drive to make them cover all people, not just the ones they want to.

bellemere · « **Reply #152 on:** August 03, 2009, 10:26:56 AM »

So now what? The Congress is going on recess? So am i, and will be away from the computer unless I use the Falmouth Public Library on a rainy day at the beach.. I guess those opposed to the reforms will use the month to put forward their views in television ads emphasizing fear of the refomrs and the supporters will emphasize the fear of no reform. Opponents aren't going to waste any money on Massachusetts;, we are a lost cause. Our congressonal delegation is unanimously for reform. so those of you in "swing states" are going to see some interesting spins, that will keep this discussion going. We will have to find a rumor control site to keep us informed. Anyone know of an unbiased one?

Babi · « **Reply #153 on:** August 04, 2009, 08:00:08 AM »

Quote

As for people who have enough money to cover their own medical costs - only multi-millionaires can do that.

NL, you are right about that, of course. It's more a case of well-to-do
people not needing government assisted insurance. They can certainly afford
private insurance and should not be part of a government mandated 'universal'
insurance.

BELLEMERE, I've always found "Hoaxbusters" good at rumor control. Whether
they get involved in political disputes, I'm not sure.

It's beginning to look like we are going to stay on this topic until the bill either
passes, or not.

Steph · « **Reply #154 on:** August 04, 2009, 08:50:59 AM »

New thing is that people are showing up at the town meetings and booing loudly about health reform. I read one news report that indicated that he had interview two of the booers and they did not even come from that congressmans district.. Hmmm.

bellemere · « **Reply #155 on:** August 04, 2009, 09:44:51 AM »

Yes, I read that the "Just say No" shouting is designed to prevent questions being answered or legitimate concerns being expressed. Another old trick from the community organizers playbook is to hire a venue that is too small to accommodate all the people expected to show up; get your supporters there an hour ahead of the meeting to fill all the chairs; removing some chairs if necessary, and this will result in the press reporting "a packed house" or " a standing room only crowd" opposing the issue.

bellemere · « **Reply #156 on:** August 04, 2009, 09:54:24 AM »

Oh, yes, another is the
"ad hominem" attack, from the Latin "to the man" . Work an unpopulare person into your attack rather than addressing the issue: "do you want Nancy Pelosi determining whether you should get a heart transplant?" or " Barney Frank would like to abort more babies using government funds!" I bet you will hear worse before this is over. Will a;ny of the congressmen remember that they were elected to lead, not merely to cave in to shouting mobs or dirty money?

Steph · « **Reply #157 on:** August 05, 2009, 08:10:33 AM »

I have gotten three emails from unknown people who urge me to go to town meetings in south Florida and will supply me with query point, and banners. Amazing.. dont know how they got my email address.. I hate that.

bellemere · « **Reply #158 on:** August 05, 2009, 08:48:17 AM »

Wow, Steph! what postion do they want you to support? Can you fix your SPAM filter to get rid of stuff like that?
Here in Mass., everyone is just going to the beach. Complcency reigns, we are hopeless cases.

Babi · « **Reply #159 on:** August 05, 2009, 09:33:19 AM »

STEPH, I'm glad that discrepancy was picked up and reported in the news. It's
important that people should be aware of manipulations such as Belemere
describes, so they won't be frightened off. I'm hoping a lot more news stories
will appear revealing such shenanigans. (Neat old word, 'shenanigans'.)

News:

Author Topic: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform (Read 102577 times)