Author Topic: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform (Read 96123 times)

Steph · « **Reply #160 on:** August 06, 2009, 07:56:53 AM »

Talking Heads #6

"It occurred to me that nothing is more interesting than opinion when opinion is interesting..."
Herbert Bayard Swope, creator of the Op-Ed page.

A two week forum for opinions on anything in print: magazines, newspaper articles, online: bring your ideas and let's discuss.

Our Sixth Selection is:
Health Care Reform~! Are We on the Fast Track?

7 Ways Health Reform Is Going to Affect You
Newsweek June 10, 2009

Great word indeed.. They were all from conservative groups wanting me to rally as a senior about end of life issues.. So.. I would guess it came through some sort of seniors group of some type. Since I believe we have made provisions for our end of life issues, I just dumped them. I do so hate to raise my spam filter. I miss emails from some of my corgi web friends if I do that.

Babi · « **Reply #161 on:** August 07, 2009, 08:29:21 AM »

Remind your Corgi web fans to identify themselves some way in the subject
line, STEPH. That spam filter is essential! After a quick scan for legit. e-mail, one 'delete all' clears the deck.

Steph · « **Reply #162 on:** August 08, 2009, 10:10:16 AM »

It s funny. My lap top is slightly newer than my pc.. So.. the laptop has a spam setting that I can refer all to in case I want to and I do.. Then i can quickly separate out things. My older PC does not have that option. I have to raise the filter and I never see the rejects. Darn.
I cannot get over the number of people who are at the town meetings, who actually say.. " I dont want the government to interfere with my medicare" What the heck do they think medicare is??

Babi · « **Reply #163 on:** August 09, 2009, 08:24:09 AM »

I think I can understand that reaction, STEPH. It comes from experience in
which every time some company wants to make a change, it's to their advantage far more than mine.

Steph · « **Reply #164 on:** August 09, 2009, 09:37:02 AM »

I agree that new and improved generally means the company loves it.. As far as computers are concerned, it drives me nuts..
At this point, the only medicare that will change was already in the works. That pertains to the small amount of people who have the medicare plus program. It is not available in our area.

Janet · « **Reply #165 on:** August 10, 2009, 12:50:41 AM »

Comment removed

Babi · « **Reply #166 on:** August 10, 2009, 08:23:45 AM »

Quote

"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of the year the legislation becomes law."

My problem in reading that article, JANET, is that it never does explain what
is being referred to by "in such coverage". I agree that offhand, I don't like
the idea of telling a private company they can't insure a person who wants
their insurance, but we don't know what is being referred to here.
As for having to compete with lower rates, that sounds like an excellent
idea to me. Insurance companies have gotten overbloated with profits
precisely for lack of competition. I don't at all mind the idea of their having
to cut back to stay in business.

nlhome · « **Reply #167 on:** August 10, 2009, 08:31:46 AM »

I think that needs to be read in context with other parts of the bill - I thought that the reform means that new policies under reform have to follow certain rules that the existing ones don't, so that people can keep their present policies but others cannot get into them. The public option is to be there alongside the private plans under the new system of private policies. I don't read it as saying no one can go into a new plan, just not the plans that were set up before reform.

Steph · « **Reply #168 on:** August 10, 2009, 08:34:48 AM »

The amount of money that is made by private insurance companies on hospitalization is obscene. Anything that reins it in would be helpful.. Same goes for pharmaceutical.. I sold off every single stock that was attached to pharmacy companies and tobacco about 10 years ago. Took some doing on the mutuals, but got it done..

Janet · « **Reply #169 on:** August 10, 2009, 12:11:57 PM »

Now that the official White House website (whitehouse.gov) has requested citizens to report other citizens who post anything "fishy" (read anything critical of) regarding the proposed health care legislation, I have removed all comments which I have previously made on this website. I do not wish to end up on the White House hit list. I weep for our country!

Good bye.

nlhome · « **Reply #170 on:** August 10, 2009, 08:05:36 PM »

Janet, there's a difference between being critical of and "fishy."
There has been a lot of false information out there, some misinterpretations, and some definite criticism. The criticism is needed. The false information should be explained and corrected. There is also a lot of confusion. I think your over-reacting.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/?e=10&ref=text

If this is the site you are referring to, it's an informational site.
The Republicans also have sites with information, as does the insurance industry.

Steph · « **Reply #171 on:** August 11, 2009, 08:50:09 AM »

My reaction to Palins remark on her blogs that a committe would not judge her son or her parents was akin to yelling Fire in a crowded theatre. The woman is mad and should not be allowed to say that sort of nonsense. I have lost any respect I might have had for her. I am ashamed of a woman who would use her child for that sort of nonsense. It is just not true.. End of life issues could be discussed with your doctor. It is only so that they have a clear view of what you want. How dare she, use downs syndrome that way.

bellemere · « **Reply #172 on:** August 11, 2009, 11:27:49 AM »

"fishy' does not sound like a word that the White House communication office would use.
I also weep for my country, which is witnessing the decline of civilised, informed debate in favor of the Big Lie. Joseph goebbels first enunciated the doctrine that a lie repeated often enough and loud enough will beat the truth.
Our democracy became a model for the world, but it is becoming a disgrace. i truly believe that political ideology and disruption techniques block the ability of people on both sides of the question , to have their concerns addressed. The rhetoric I hear , not on this board, but in the beach and in the bars of this town in supposedly liberal Massachusetts., is shocking. It is all about "getting Obama." "He will be gone by 2013 anyway. , we can junk the whole thing.
Craziest was: "Obama visited his grandmother in the hospital and a week later she died. Coincidence?"
People who have good health insurance are concerned; they have a right to be heard and to ask that their coverage be protected as an integral part of any reform. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. but to junk the whole reform and let the uninsured "eat cake" is wrong. There are too many things that are broke.

Steph · « **Reply #173 on:** August 12, 2009, 07:49:49 AM »

Bellemere well said.. I watch the tv for the crowds but dont begin to understand what is happening. Many of the people who stand up and scream do not seem to be the type who have health care.. I just read about a man complaining about medicare and his prescription. That is the prescription end of medicare and that is all done by different forms of insurance.. Blame the insurance company if they dont want to use named drugs.
Why are people so frightened of universal health care. We are close to the only first world country that does not have it. The nordic countries, which noone ever mentions all have forms of health care and do just fine. Hearing over and over about Canadian problems makes me curious.. Has anyone checked the prices of regular drugs in canada against ours. I have.. My husband takes a drug that cost 110.00 a month.. In Canada you can get three months for the same price.. Hows that for ripping off the consumer.

Babi · « **Reply #174 on:** August 12, 2009, 09:36:43 AM »

I greatly admired Obama's plea re. the health care reform issue. He simply said that where we disagree, it should be about something real, not about
false representations. There is so much 'false representation' going on I am
afraid many people will be sadly misled.

bellemere · « **Reply #175 on:** August 12, 2009, 01:22:32 PM »

I hope any caring physician now would be willing to discuss "end of life issues" with a patient who requested his help. But he would have to be willing to sacrifice his own income to do so, because he could not bill Medicare for that . And his group , if he is in one, would have to agree. I believe under the new proposed reform, he could be reimbursed by insurers for that service. Am I right?

nlhome · « **Reply #176 on:** August 12, 2009, 09:45:54 PM »

Bellemere, that is the way I understand it - it would be a covered service, but the patient's choice on whether to have that conversation.

Steph · « **Reply #177 on:** August 13, 2009, 08:35:38 AM »

Yes, actually medicare I believe would pay now for it, but regular insurance does not. Actually we went to an attorney and got it all drawn up. wills, power of attorney and end of life issues along with a living will.. I consider it a necessity. I want to be able to be assured that I will not be left as a human breathing machine, not knowing anything. I remember the last days of my father s life and his eyes begging us to do something..

bellemere · « **Reply #178 on:** August 13, 2009, 10:14:47 AM »

Yes, I think that consultation should be voluntary. And should be explicitly so stated in any final plan. some people might prefer just to have it with a family member. But I am a little curious about what should go in a "living will" . I have one, but I just kind of guessede at what "extraordinary measures" were. A medical esplanation would have been welcome. Guess I need to haul out the whole package; will, proxy, etc and review it with a lawyer.
On that cheerful note, I think I will go out for a walk and clear my head; probably a good health measure at this point.

Babi · « **Reply #179 on:** August 14, 2009, 08:27:07 AM »

I don't have a living will, but my children are aware of my wishes and agree
with them. And I suppose my local hospital still has a policy of asking for a pre-surgical decision as to the use of machines to sustain life, though I haven't had
reason to confirm that for many years.
I was looking at the 'poll' on AOL re. Palin's comment about "death panels "and was surprised to see how many of those who 'voted' believed her.
The more I hear from Palin, the more I am assured my first instincts about her
were accurate.

Steph · « **Reply #180 on:** August 14, 2009, 10:04:54 AM »

Palin reminds me of McCarthy.. Scary thought, but there it is. She will say anything to get her conservative base to believe.
Living wills.. ours generally covers broad ideas.. We are each others health surrogate, which most hospitals ask for nowadays before surgery.

bellemere · « **Reply #181 on:** August 14, 2009, 11:58:33 AM »

I just had the same thought about Sarah Palin! and I remember that some people thougth Joe McCarthy was practiaclly a saint.
She is a shameless self=promoter, nothing more. The elevator does not go all the way to the top, that's for sure.
Give her enought rope, and hopefully she is on her way back to Wasilla for good.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #182 on:** August 14, 2009, 06:46:06 PM »

Oh, you are discussion health care reform here I see!

Our discussion of Frances Perkins, who was the first female cabinet member ever in a presidential administration, succesfuly pushed through Congress with the help of FDR (hahaha) such programs as social security, unemployment compensation, minimum wage, and many more.

One regret she had for the rest of her life was she was not able to get a health care bill passed.

The fight goes on.

We are having a mini-town hall on the subject right now here:

http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=587.200

Join us with your ideas! We'd love to hear from you.

nlhome · « **Reply #183 on:** August 14, 2009, 08:08:39 PM »

Apparently back in April of 2008, Governor Palin signed a proclamation for "Health Care Decisions" Day. That was to encourage people to have advanced directives.

Steph · « **Reply #184 on:** August 15, 2009, 09:41:46 AM »

I love it.. Palin cannot even remember what she signed.
A good friend just sent us an op-ed column from Vermont. It seems that somewhere all over Vermont are clinics set up.. With some givernment money. They are staffed fully. You can go whether you have insurance or not. They ask the non insurance to pay what they can afford. You see a nurse practioner or a Physicians assit ant.. Then a doctor if necessary. They concentrate on everyday health problems and are proactive on preventive medicine.. Fascinating article. Never heard of them. Is anyone here from Vermont?? Do you know anything about them??

PEGGY · « **Reply #185 on:** August 15, 2009, 01:36:41 PM »

Hi:
Just peeked in to read some of the discussions. Although I am not going to comment as to what is in this proposed legislation, the pros or cons, I would like to comment on Stephs last post

I don't know about Vermont, but these clinics are apparently set up in parts of New York.
My twin grandson had a near fatal accident on a Good Friday before Easter. After falling down stairs and slitting his wrist on some metal that was being used while under construction, he didn't lose his cool and told his twin brother to get a belt and use as a tourniquet immediately and then fetch his mother. The mother, being frantic took him immediately to one of these nearby clinics which saved his life. While stabalizing him, they immediately summoned a doctor who arrived in short time to take care of him. A longer trip to the hospital emergency room might have been fatal. This clinic also does the same as the one Steph described in Vermont.

bellemere · « **Reply #186 on:** August 15, 2009, 03:00:57 PM »

These are Community Health Centers set up in very rural or very underserved urban areas. They do get subsidies to treat people who have not insurance, and they also take all kinds of insurance. I believe new doctors with loans to pay back to the government can work them partially off by serving in them.
It looks like the parts of current bills that must go are: Anything referring to end-of-life issues. People have been terrorized by the misinformation around this question. Better to just let it go. Also, any move to raise taxes on the middle class.
The various committees should just concentrate on the two, and only two , things President Obama asked for: Cover everyone, and make it pay for itself. The simpler the better.
But regarding advance directives: this is going to be a big probem.
Whoever thought people would live so long? some huge proportion of Medicare funds are spent on care in the last few weeks of life. Our local Concil on Aging instituted a birthday party a few years ago for cenenarians. Usually 2 or 3 came. This year there were something like 35, and others not well enought to come to the party. Advanced medical care and technology have dealt us seniors today a very tricky hand to play. Save fpr retirement? What if retirement lasts for 30 or 40 years? How much will people have to save up? And medically, the question is even more troubling. The birth rate is going down; fewer babies; fewer p eople in the working population and more and more in retirement? What will happen?
I can still recall that Medicare, when it was proposed , was bitterly opposed by doctors and the entire medical establishment. It was going to be the end of civilization as we know it!

pedln · « **Reply #187 on:** August 15, 2009, 09:21:05 PM »

In today’s Town Hall meeting in Colorado, Obama stated that entitlements and defense consumed the largest amounts of our budget, and that the expenses of Medicare and Medicaid must be reigned in. But in just a few years, the oldest “baby-boomers” will be Medicare eligible, and although I don’t have figures, it is my understanding that the “over-65” population, for several years, will be much larger than it is today. And, from the sketchy reading I did today, not all boomers are well-off big spenders. Some are close to the poverty line. Surely this will have an effect on health reform in the years to come.

Another concern, long-term care. Medicare does not include it, Medicaid does pay for it. With a larger aging population, regardless of how healthy they are as a result of exercise and good living, there will be more instances of debilitating conditions like Alzheimers, Parkinsons, diabetes. Will anything change in how we handle long-term care needs.

kidsal · « **Reply #188 on:** August 16, 2009, 02:47:49 AM »

If you are admitted to a hospital they will ask if you have a living will or who will be making decisions for you if you are unable. I have a living will filed with my hospital and my physician. I discussed the details with my physician because the withholding of nutrition or water might cause more suffering. A non-medical person probably would not have these facts.
The proposal in the health plan states that this is voluntary. It would also cover the expense of discussing hospice care.

Had lunch with friends yesterday and gave them each a copy of the health reform proposals which compared each. They kept talking about socialism, doctors killing off the old folks, and such nonsense. I asked them if they were concerned about socialism why they were accepting medicare (and for that matter Social Security). Certainly these women in their 70s and 80s had long since received more money for their health care than they had ever put into the system!

Steph · « **Reply #189 on:** August 16, 2009, 10:00:19 AM »

Thanks for the advice about the health clinics. They sound wonderful.. They also sound like something we should encourage.. Why do all the young doctors want to be specialists. We really need internists, family type doctors. Someone to look at the whole person. My husband has been ill off and on for the past years and it has been horrid trying to keep track of the various doctors. We finally found an internists who is willing to coordinate all of them, whether they like it or not..

bellemere · « **Reply #190 on:** August 16, 2009, 11:21:08 AM »

The doomsday scenario of end of life care has really been bugging me. finally I had some insight. Instead of viewing the problem as "too many old people" the problem can be viewed as "too high costs" and could be attacked from that angle. Make technologh cheaper and more efficient; that is something America knows how to do. If end of life care is less costly, the problem will not be so scary. Look at the hand held calculator, once a hundred dollare miracle of technologh, now banks, etc. give them awayfor nothing. Americans still have the greatest "know how" in the world . altthough for how much longer is questionable.
so controlling the cost has to be the priority before we start talking about plug pulling. Anyone see merit in that?

maryz · « **Reply #191 on:** August 16, 2009, 12:19:06 PM »

Control the cost? Of course, bellmere. IMHO, that's the whole point of the reform issue. The costs are insane.

kidsal · « **Reply #192 on:** August 17, 2009, 03:32:18 AM »

Internists are specialists. We have two in our county here in SW Wyoming.

Steph · « **Reply #193 on:** August 17, 2009, 07:43:34 AM »

I agree that internists are specialist, but here in central Florida, they act as family physicians. We have literally hundreds of doctors locally. Way too many, i suspect. Anyway, this particular practice has several internists and they act as your basic physician, schedule tests and steer you to specialists as you need them.. Seems to be working well for MDH.. He has chloresterol issues, liver enzyme problems , and several forms of skin cancer.. Plus a few mysterious type things. So this way I dont worry that he is being overmedicated..

bellemere · « **Reply #194 on:** August 17, 2009, 08:53:30 AM »

More from the If I Were King department. The manned space program: a great ride for the guys on board; what do the rest of us get for our billions? Other countries, e.g. France gather data from s pace using highly efficient satellites. Do we really need the glamour boys and gals in the orange jump suits? Do we des[erately need to go to Mars? If we could put a man on the moon in a decade, could we find cost-saving medical technologh in a decade?
My plucky little R.N. niece has just started her own business: home infusion, for people to stay in their homes and receive intravenous medicines, even some chemotherapy, without going to a hospital, at much lower cost.

Re living wills. I think most people who have one explicitly say they do not want to be kept alive by artificial means if there is no reasonable chance of recovery. Does anyone, I wonder, have a living will that states the opposite: Keep me going, using every available means, for as long as possible. I suppose in theory they could.

On an unrelated note: The European Union countries with their "socialized medical care" allow the purchase of supplemental private insurance for things like private hospital rooms, etc. and also have made health insurance reciprocal among all the countries. An Italian who gets sick in France gets treated same as a French citizen, the insurance benefits being about the same all over Europe.
In Mexico, training for student nurses includes instruction in spending a few minutes at the bedside talking with the patients to try to help them feel better!

ANNIE · « **Reply #195 on:** August 17, 2009, 02:39:20 PM »

This was sent to me by a good friend and I am thinking that we all might want to read and save the links that she places here.

Ann,
There are several excellent open government sites that synopsize bills – I use them at work. They have no partisan ax to grind and simplify the language but give enough info to help decide what parts of a bill to read in more detail and what the bill will actually do.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:HR03200:@@@D&summ2=m& - Thomas is the site that tracks all Federal legislation

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/show

govtrack – site is down on the recess for hardware upgrade but it a nonpartisan tracker

There may be lots of valid questions on HC reform, but I loathe being lied to or having facts spun to keep talk show host ratings high or legislators in office. Look at motives and follow thee money – its pretty interesting.

Regards, Karen

bellamarie · « **Reply #196 on:** August 18, 2009, 12:26:11 AM »

Steph,

Quote

Palin reminds me of McCarthy.. Scary thought, but there it is. She will say anything to get her conservative base to believe.

What Palin said about "death panels" must have had some substance to it, since now the committee says they are taking that out of the reform bill. Kathleen Sabillus, who is in charge of the health reform stated Sunday that it meant doctors would get reimbursed for giving consultations to family members on how to proceed with a loved one who is approaching death. Don't most doctors consult with the family already and get an enormous fee for just stepping into the room? Is this more government waste in spending?

bellemere,

Quote

I just had the same thought about Sarah Palin! and I remember that some people thougth Joe McCarthy was practiaclly a saint.
She is a shameless self=promoter, nothing more. The elevator does not go all the way to the top, that's for sure.
Give her enought rope, and hopefully she is on her way back to Wasilla for good.

I am NOT a Republican or conservative, but I don't understand why people feel the need to personally degrade Palin? I have been a democrat my entire voting life and can not understand this attitude. I don't mean any disrespect in asking.

bellamarie · « **Reply #197 on:** August 18, 2009, 12:57:01 AM »

Babi, I greatly admired Obama's plea re. the health care reform issue. He simply said that where we disagree, it should be about something real, not about
false representations. There is so much 'false representation' going on I am
afraid many people will be sadly misled.

I think there may be false representations going on because NO ONE including Obama knows what is in the reform bill of 600-1,000 pages. A member of the health reform committee was on Sunday's news being interviewed and he admitted that this is NOT President Obama's bill, that the President told this committee to come up with something. If people were well informed then they would not have to worry about the false misrepresentations or being misled. Professors, and top insurance ceo's have read the bill and can not even begin to understand it. Obama did say to help pay for it they would have to cut 40% of Medicare. Until someone is willing to deduce this down to fewer pages and simple reading, I will reserve judgement. I agree we need health reform, but I don't want rationing and I don't want to be told which surgeries I am allowed to have because of my age or illness. So far this administration has failed with the bail outs, the stimulus and the cash for clunkers, I don't want to imagine what this country would be like if they fail with health reform. Obama admitted at a town meeting he did not know for certain how they were going to pay for it fully. He joked about not pulling the plug on grandma, but for alot of grandmas and grandpas, it is not something they want to hear as a pundit at a town hall meeting at a time they are filled with confusion and concern. Canadians may have cheaper drugs, but they are coming here to have surgeries they are being denied under their health care system there. Their system is rationing health care, so let's not be too ready for reform to the point we get something that could be worse than we have. Something this complex should not be rushed through. All polls are showing 78% of Americans are not in favor of this reform at this time, and I think in large part it is because they have not been able to be given the true facts of what it consists of. This is still a work in progress, so how can it be accepted at this time?

It reminds me of the saleman who tells me this is my only opportunity to purchase the item and I must act NOW! Anytime anyone pressured me to act now, a red flag came up. If they are confident about this bill and have the votes of the democrats in the house then why does it have to be immediately before they have a clearer understandning? No one can tell us what it is, they just rebut what is being said against it.

kidsal · « **Reply #198 on:** August 18, 2009, 04:00:43 AM »

Steph: Please send a couple of those internists our way -- they can enjoy the wide open spaces, high desert, hunting/fishing, the mountains

Steph · « **Reply #199 on:** August 18, 2009, 08:39:26 AM »

Kidsal,, we have two major hospitals here plus a research facility and a third childrens hospital being finished now.. So that is why the number of doctors. Specialists love to be near teaching hospitals or hospitals that do special surgeries. M.D. Anderson of Texas has a cancer branch here. E.I. Dupont has a childrens speciality opening. So I would love to send you some of the doctors, especially the ones that english is probably their third language, but they wont go.
BellaMaria.. I have been a feminist and a supporter of most women my entire life. I worked very hard when young to help legalize abortion and other problems. Sarah Palin simply works the system and I am personally offended by her. I have never felt about anyone I did her. The winking and parading of children. The baby who needed anything but being paraded in huge crowds.. The hypocrisy of abstinence when her daughter was having a baby.. No, I simply cannot abide her. So thats that.. Sorry.

News:

Author Topic: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform (Read 96123 times)