Author Topic: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant  (Read 371938 times)

Justin

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1000 on: May 16, 2010, 12:18:21 AM »
 Pious tried to unify Europe against the Turks. A month after his coronation he invited all Christian princes to join  him at Mantua to lay plans to rescue "eastern Christendom from the Ottoman tide which might at any time cross the Adriatic or continue it's advance along the Danube. No Christian prince from beyond the Alps answered the call. The Pope's political power was waning. Bosnia today, as a result, is a mix of Christian and Islamic adherents. We, the US under Clinton, stopped a persecution of the Bosnian Muslims by the Christians. This game is still being played out. Millosovich, the Christian perpetrator of crimes against the Muslims in Bosnia, was recently executed  or died a natural death in prison. I forget which. In either case, he is dead. But the animosity lingers just under the surface.

Robby

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1001 on: May 16, 2010, 11:46:25 AM »
I have been regularly saying in the years that I have been part of this discussion, that, in my opinion, best as I could see, a major part of the move toward Civilization has been the struggle of the "have nots" against the "haves".  We have been discussing such struggles in the religious field but is it any different from the struggle discussed below?

Thailand’s King Sees His Influence Fading
By SETH MYDANS and THOMAS FULLER
BANGKOK — A battle over Thailand’s future is raging, but the one man who has been able to resolve such intractable conflicts in the past has been notably silent: King Bhumibol Adulyadej, long a unifying father figure for his nation.

Thailand is convulsed by a bitter struggle between the nation’s elite and its disenfranchised poor, played out in protests that have paralyzed Bangkok for weeks and now threaten to expand. The ailing 82-year-old king finds his power to sway events ebbing as the fight continues over the shape of a post-Bhumibol Thailand.

“It’s much bigger than the issue of succession,” said Charles Keyes, an expert on Thailand at the University of Washington in Seattle. “It’s a collapse of the political consensus that the monarchy has helped maintain.”

As his country suffers through its worst political crisis in decades, the king has disappointed many Thais by saying nothing that might calm the turmoil, as he did in 1973 and 1992 when with a few quiet words he halted eruptions of political bloodletting.

For more than two months now, demonstrators known as the red shirts, who represent in part the aspirations of the rural and urban poor, have occupied parts of Bangkok, forcing major malls and hotels to close as they demand that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva dissolve Parliament and hold a new election. Soldiers and protesters continued battling Saturday.

After taking the throne nearly 64 years ago, King Bhumibol expanded his role as a constitutional monarch without political power into an enormous moral force, earned through his civic work and political astuteness. He has also presided over an expansion of the royal family’s now vast business holdings. With the monarchy at its heart, an elite royalist class grew up including the bureaucracy, the military and entrenched business interests. A palace Privy Council has exerted power during the current crisis.

It is this elite class that the protesters are now challenging.

Those who seek to maintain the status quo have proclaimed themselves loyal to the king and have accused the red shirts of trying to destroy the monarchy as they seek changes in Thai society. For their part, most red shirts say they respect the king but want changes in the system he helped create.

The politicization of the king’s name “has ensured that the monarchy cannot play a central conciliatory role any more,” said Chris Baker, a British historian of Thailand.

More broadly, the divisions in society may have become too deep and the anger too hot to reconcile for years to come. Many analysts say a lasting class conflict has been ignited between the country’s awakening rural masses and its elite hierarchy. With the king confined to a hospital since September with lung inflammation and other ailments, concern about the future has sharpened. The heir apparent to the throne, Crown Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn, has not inherited his father’s popularity.

But discussion about the succession and about the future role of the monarchy are constricted to whispers and forbidden Internet sites by a severe lèse-majesté law. A 15-year penalty for anyone who “defames, insults or threatens the king, queen, the heir apparent or the regent” has been broadly interpreted in cases brought against writers, academics, activists, and both foreign and local journalists.

Though it is the protesters who are pressing for change, including some who may see a republican form of government in the future, it is a leading member of the establishment party that now rules Thailand who put the issue into its plainest terms.

“We should be brave enough to go through all of this and even talk about the taboo subject of monarchy,” said Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya, in a speech last month that he gave, significantly, outside Thailand at the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies in Washington. “I think we have to talk about the institution of the monarchy, how would it have to reform itself to the modern globalized world.”

He spoke of Britain and the Netherlands as models, with constitutional monarchs who play a largely symbolic role.

On paper at least, those models are not so very different from the system now in place in Thailand. What sets King Bhumibol apart is the aura that surrounds him and the faith among many people that when things are really bad, he will step forward to save them from themselves.

In a way, what some Thais are saying now is simply that it is time for the king’s “children” to grow up and solve their problems themselves.

“There might still be people in Thai society that want to see the king play a role in resolving the crisis,” said Jon Ungpakorn, a former senator and one of the nation’s most vocal advocates for democracy.

“But on the other side, a large section of society realizes that we should not depend on the monarchy for resolving crises,” he said. “If we are to be a democratic system, we must learn to deal with our problems ourselves.”

During weeks of street demonstrations, protesters have assiduously asserted their patriotism. But unlike other protests in the city, there has been a conspicuous absence of portraits of the king. Among both residents of the northeast, the country’s rural heartland, and the red-shirt protesters in Bangkok — many of whom have traveled back and forth in shifts — a new, less reverent tone has quietly crept into conversations.

Krasae Chanawongse, a medical doctor and former government minister in the northeast who is a strong monarchist, laments that “many people are talking about destroying the monarchy.”

But protest leaders insist that they are not challenging the king but the system that is built around him.

“Real democracy would have the king at the top, with no elite class to interfere,” said a protest leader, Nattawut Saikua, in an interview.

Former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra had built an electoral base among the country’s poor majority, who also form the base of the red-shirt protesters, threatening the traditional supremacy of the old guard. A coup in 2006 that ousted Mr. Thaksin is believed to have had at least the tacit approval of the Privy Council and other elites who saw the prime minister and his base as a challenge to their power. The red shirts have demanded a new election that could bring back Mr. Thaksin, now abroad fleeing a prison sentence for corruption.

Whoever succeeds King Bhumibol, the veneration and the place the king holds at the heart of Thai society are unlikely to survive him.

“In private discussions people say to each other, ‘What will we do without him?’ ” said a prominent poet who, like many people speaking about the monarchy, insisted on anonymity. “They get disappointed and upset and even scared about the change in the future.”

As he has grown older, concerns have risen about divisions and disputes in society that might erupt once he is gone. It appears now, with the king no longer playing the role he has in the past, that those conflicts are already under way.



JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1002 on: May 16, 2010, 09:25:11 PM »
Fascinating!

Justin

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1003 on: May 17, 2010, 12:17:52 AM »
Once a people agree  to be ruled by a system of laws rather than by the whim of a monarch then the "haves and the have nots" can fight it out with rules rather than bloodshed. 

Robby

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1004 on: May 17, 2010, 07:50:57 AM »
So - considering the fact that survival (whether individual or group) is the name of the game, why would any of us be willing to submit to laws which might at times cause us to lose.  After our founders created the Constitution, why did the majority of the populace submit to it?

Robby

Justin

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1005 on: May 17, 2010, 09:19:23 PM »
On the one hand redress was guaranteed and on the other, people realized they could not have the benefits of the first ten amendments unless the amendments applied to all equally. However women and slaves did not count as anyone except when counting for the census. Women then counted as one and slaves as one half. It was the southern states that wanted to count slaves for drawing congressional district lines.

It is interesting that at the end of Washington's administration there was much talk about a crown for Washington. I think that means that not everyone was satisfied that the constitution would work.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1006 on: May 18, 2010, 05:15:34 PM »
Absolutely. The idea of the Republic was very fragile. McCoulough (sp?) in his biography of John Adams said that it wasn't sure that the system was going to work until power had changed hands peacefully, i.e. when Jefferson defeated Adams and became president. It could not have happened -- the election had been very bitter, and there were some who wanted to keep Jefferson from power with armed forces.

I wish our leaders would read this. They think that if a country holds an election, it's a democracy. Not so! It's only when we see that those in power relinquish power peacefully as the result of an honest election that we know we have a democracy.

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1007 on: May 21, 2010, 05:02:04 PM »
From Robby's link on the King of Thailand.....an excerpt

Quote
After taking the throne nearly 64 years ago, King Bhumibol expanded his role as a constitutional monarch without political power into an enormous moral force, earned through his civic work and political astuteness. He has also presided over an expansion of the royal family’s now vast business holdings. With the monarchy at its heart, an elite royalist class grew up including the bureaucracy, the military and entrenched business interests. A palace Privy Council has exerted power during the current crisis.


What a clever con man, but aren't they all. The King is put on the throne with no power. His main goal seems to be the theft of the country's resources. He goes out and becomes the face of any project done for the community, like building a school. The Parliment pays for it using money collected from the people. The people pay and the King gets all the glory.

Over time the 'cult of personality' kicks in, and Asians seem very susceptible to this odd trait. (North Korea an example)
With all that 'worship' used to his advantage, he and his cronies systematically steal the country's assets.


Quote
For their part, most red shirts say they respect the king but want changes in the system he helped create.

It's not going to happen. Never has to my knowledge. The King and his gang of robbers will never give up their ill gotten assets until each and every one is dead. The King and his cronies have already shown what they will do, shoot unarmed demonstrators down in the street.

I oppose all monarchy for this very reason. The clever psychopath will find a way to power and riches, even is he is only supposed to be a figurehead. I don't believe in figureheads, it seems a useless waste of time and ink.
 

Quote
But discussion about the succession and about the future role of the monarchy are constricted to whispers and forbidden Internet sites by a severe lèse-majesté law. A 15-year penalty for anyone who “defames, insults or threatens the king, queen, the heir apparent or the regent” has been broadly interpreted in cases brought against writers, academics, activists, and both foreign and local journalists.

Such laws are essential in the use of 'personality cult' worship. Once the 'deity' is enthroned its too late for the people to change it especially when one can't even discuss the 'subject'.

The people say they still respect the King (of course they do if they want to survive) but want to change the system he created. The system and the King are one. The people cannot have one and not the other. Until they recognize that, they will continue to die and be imprisoned for nothing.


Behind every great fortune, a crime.

Emily

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1008 on: June 03, 2010, 12:18:08 AM »
If I may be so bold as to return to SoC, where we were commenting on Pius II....

I think Justin in his #959 April 11th, admirably summed up Pius' work, except for two scholars who graced his Pontificate. Durant wrote as follows, ( Page 386, bottom paragraph)

Flavio Biondo, a papal secretary since Nicholas V, was a symbol of the Christian Renaissance: he loved antiquity and spent half his life describing its history and relics, but he never ceased to be a devout, orthodox, and practising Christian. Biondo wrote an encyclopedia in three parts - Roma insturata, Roma triumphans and Italia illustrata- recording the topography, history, institutions, laws, religion, manners, and arts of ancient Italy. Greater still was his 'Historiarum ab inclinatione Romanorum,' an immense "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" from 476 to 1250, the first critical history if the Middle Ages. Biondo was no stylist, but he was a discriminating historian. The work was unfinished at his death (1463) but it set to later historians an example of conscientious scholarship.

John Cardinal Bessarion was a living vehicle of the Greek culture that was entering Italy. Coming to the Council of Florence as archbishop of Nicaea, he took a leading part in the reunion of Greek and Latin Christianity; returning to Costantinople he and other "Uniates" were repudiated by the lower clergy and the people. Pope Eugenius made him a cardinal(1439), and Bessarion moved to Italy, bringing with him a rich collection of Greek manuscripts. At Rome, his house became a salon of Humanists; Poggio, Valla, and Platina were among his closest friends.

He spent nearly all his income in purchasing manuscripts, or having them copied. He himself made a new translation of Aristotle's Metaphysics; but as a disciple of Gemistus he favoured Plato, and led the Platonic camp in a hot controversy that raged at the time between Platonists and Aristotelians. Plato won that campaign, and the long rule of Aristotle over Western Philosophy, came to an end.

For Pius II, Bessarion undertook dificult diplomatic missions to Germany again seething with revolt against the RomanChurch. In 1471 he narrowly missed election to the Papacy. He died a year later, honoured throughout the world of scholarship.


For myself, I honour him for that victory of Plato over Aristotle..... What do others here think ? ( Trevor)

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1009 on: June 04, 2010, 12:28:00 AM »
Plato vs Aristotle.........It has been so long since I read either that other than realism vs idealism, their arguments are lost in the fog of memory. By the time I came to study both, I had been taught critical thinking by my grandmother, the most admired and realistic person I ever knew. I take what I believe to be real from both and jettison the rest, and that does not leave much.

In my youth and young adulthood, I leaned toward idealism. The real world quickly cured me of that fantasy. I thought everyone was like the wonderful family I grew up in, imagine the shock when I found out how wrong I was. I would like an ideal world, but I am stuck here in the real one, which is far from ideal.

There are thousands of web sites with everyone taking different sides. Here is one argument from Africa for Plato's side by a professor who calls himself an idealist.

http://www.chatafrikarticles.com/articles/1273/1/PLATO-VERSUS-ARISTOTLE-IDEALISM-VERSUS-REALISM-PHILOSOPHY-VERSUS-SCIENCE/Page1.html

Emily





 

Justin

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1010 on: June 04, 2010, 02:33:35 AM »
Claire: If you are lurking, please send me your address.

Aristotle vrs. Plato. and their relationship to RC religion is a worthy topic. Thank you, Trevor.

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1011 on: June 04, 2010, 11:23:19 AM »
Gentile Bellini painted Cardinal Bessarion. Here he is joined with two fraternity members of the Carita showing off his gift of the 'true cross' a relic embedded in the door.

http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/gentile-bellini-cardinal-bessarion-with-the-bessarion-reliquary

Emily

 


Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1012 on: June 04, 2010, 12:06:29 PM »
The Renaissance is still a topic for review in our own time. Here the Renaissance Quarterly has selected essays on Byzantine scholars of the Renaissance in Italy; Cardinal Bessarion and other emigrees.

A book review by Christian Forstel of the Bibliotheque National de France, Paris of John Monfasani's collected studies series. The book was published around 1995, so the argument continues with new discoveries.

Cardinal Bessarion is to be commended for keeping Greek history alive.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Byzantine+Scholars+in+Renaissance+Italy:+Cardinal+Bessarion+and+Other...-a054600001

Emily




JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1013 on: June 04, 2010, 03:07:55 PM »
"Plato won that campaign, and the long rule of Aristotle over Western Philosophy, came to an end."

I never studied philosophy. Is it true that Western philosophy is idealistic, in the midst of our "realistic" society?

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1014 on: June 07, 2010, 11:35:16 PM »
It is a surprise to me, that western philosophers were still staggering around in the illogicalities of Aristotelian 'physics', for nearly 2000 years after Plato and others suggested that Mathematics was the tool to understanding the universe. Even before Plato's time, astronomers with a mathematical background were measuring and explaining the Universe, that in many ways coincided with our 'modern' views.

But then, Aristotle's ideas are still embedded in peoples minds, even today. (Flat earth society and such.) I have read somewhere that the Catholic Church has in recent times got around to reinstating Galileo and Copernicus, so perhaps there is hope for truth to prevail. ++ Trevor

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1015 on: June 09, 2010, 02:44:41 PM »
This is simplistic, but it seems to me there is a very good lesson  to be learned in this epic of the Christian Church bad-mouthing and attacking the Islamic religion for so many 100's of yrs over only one aspect of ideology and therefore not benefiting from the knowledge that Muslims had kept alive. The knowledge was so vast, in so many areas, and Europeans ended up in their "black hole" of ignorance thru the "Middle Ages,"  having to relearn and progress from 1000 yrs before when they finally accepted that Arabs had something of value to teach them. ........... is that the major example of "group think" as we've come to know it in the latter part of the 20th century? ...................and perhaps we could learn to be careful of calling our opposition "evil," which dismisses everything they know or do,  and assuming they have nothing positive to contribute to the world..... jean

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1016 on: June 10, 2010, 10:26:06 PM »
Has anyone heard from Robby? I checked and his last post was May 17th. That is almost a month ago. Hope he is okay.

Emily

Brian

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1017 on: June 10, 2010, 10:56:39 PM »
Quote
Has anyone heard from Robby?


  I have not heard from Robby, but I think the publishing of his new book may well be the reason for his relative silence in our group lately.

Brian.

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1018 on: June 25, 2010, 12:08:17 AM »
To continue with Pius II. (Page 389 of SoC)

On the very day of his coronation he had expressed his horror at the advance of the Moslems along the Danube to Vienna, and through the Balkans into Bosnia. Greece, Epirus, Macedonia, Serbia, Bosnia were falling to the enemies of Christianity; who could say when they would leap across the Adriatic into Italy? ( Shades if GWB ?) A month after his coronation Pius issued an invitation to all Christian princes to join himin a great congress at Mantua and lay plans to rescue  Eastern Christendom from the Ottoman tide.

He himself arrived there on may 27th 1459. Arrayed in the most gorgeous vestments of his office, he was born through the city in a litter held up by the nobles and vassals of the Church. He addressed great throngs in one of the most moving orations of his career. But no King or prince came from beyond the Alps, and none sent  representatives with powers to commit his state to war; nationalism, which was to achieve the Reformation, was already strong enough to make the Papacy an ineffectual suppliant before the thrones of the kings.

The Pontiff waited patiently for the Emperor, but Frederick III, instead of coming to the aid of the man, who in the past had seved him well, declared war on Hungary in an effort to add to his realm the very nation that was most actively preparing to resist the Turks

At last, in August, an embassy cme from Duke Phillip the Good of Burgundy; in September Francesco Sforza appeared; other Italian princes followed his lead, and on the 26th the Congress held its first sitting, four months after the arrival of the Pope. Four months more passed in argument; finally, by agreeing to the division of Tukish and formerly Byzantine territory in Europe among the victorious powers, Pius won Burgandy and Italy to his plan for a holy war. All Christian laymen were to contribute to the cause a thirtieth of their income, all Jews a twentieth, all Clergy a tenth.

( I wonder if that is the first recording if Jewish financiers investing in 'Christian' wars? There is no mention on what they were to gain from it. ) +++ Trevor


Robby

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1019 on: June 27, 2010, 11:44:07 AM »
I am well and thank you all for asking.  Very simply, I have -- to use a common expression these days -- "too much on my plate."  I joined a second local Chamber of Commerce for business reasons, I write a fairly long article for a monthly magazine, I accepted  being a member of the Board of Directors for the local hospice, and  -- oh yes -- I continue to see patients from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m. five days a week.  I did all this to myself so no sympathy is required.  On the other hand, if I weren't that kind of person, I would probably be dead by now.

Speaking of "my" book.  The book is by Bruce Frankel and one chapter is about me.  If any of you have read it, I am interested in your reaction.  The name of the book is "What are you going to do with the rest of your life?"

I am going to gfve you all the email address of Nancy, a friend of mine, who lives in the area and is in contact with me almost daily.  If something were to happen to me, she would know it.  It is nancywalbridge@yahoo.com

Robby



Frybabe

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1020 on: June 27, 2010, 11:50:21 AM »
Thanks so much for letting us know you are well, Robby.


mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1021 on: June 27, 2010, 07:36:42 PM »
Glad all is well, Robby.

I'm overwhelmed w/ the Catholic Church and the fights between the Church and the EUropean heads of state. I'm reading Allison Weir's book on Eleanor of Acquataine, which, of course, includes the competition between HenryII and Becket. History is so much more than these battles of ego that many authors seem to concentrate on. Durant seems to have spent a lot of time - way too much imo - on those ego and idealogical battles, or am i just up to my eyeballs in that subject at the moment?
There were all sorts of other events going on in the 14th and 15th centuries that i would find much more interesting. But maybe this was the standard for writing history in the first half of the 20th century when the Durants were laboring away.

National Geo Channel is showing a wonderful series - 4 in one day - about how the EArth Made History: how water, wind, fire and human relationships to the earth effected history. You might enjoy looking at it.........jean

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1022 on: June 27, 2010, 08:41:19 PM »
Robby, good to hear from you. I will try to get the book by Bruce Frankel. I get ebooks online through my small local library. If it's in the state, I will have access and download.

I am not buying any books now, I am trying to give them away. I invited my children to come and take what they wanted, and donated the 'tomes' and coffee table books to the local library.

I still prefer to have the 'book' in hand, but it is so much quicker to download an e-book and read without waiting for an order to come in.

Good for you on all your endeavors. We miss you when you are away.

Emily   

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1023 on: June 29, 2010, 08:14:23 PM »
We are planning to discuss the book on Seniorlearn, so maybe we'll all be reading it together.

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1024 on: June 29, 2010, 08:50:27 PM »
Thank you Joan for the reminder about the book discussion.

Emily

jdorum

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1025 on: September 03, 2010, 12:03:04 PM »
What Volume is being discussed. I an a late arrival to the discussion.

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1026 on: September 03, 2010, 12:59:31 PM »
I bring this from a posting i made on "The Library" discussion.

Tho't it is almost appropriate in time and might generate some discussion while we wait for Robby to get back to us w/ a page from Durant to discuss.

Because of our discussions in other site,  I just started reading Tho Costain's The Black Rose last night. It looks like it's going to be a good read. In just the first 50 pages i've sev'l points to think about - my mind went all over history. The book is set in the 1200's, and yet there are those classic issues that seem to just keep going on and on..............religious feuds, class issues, "town vs gown". The first chapter is "Oxford" which made me think of Bill Clinton, Robt Reich and others who were w/ them at O, and i believe that Chelsea spent some time there also. It must be an eery experience if you go to O to think that students have been walking those ground for almost 1000 yrs.

I'm going to learn a lot of useless info reading this book, which is fine w/ me. I've already got a list of dozens of words that i have to look up to find out what they mean. The book was published in 1945 and i'm sure that  Costain must have known that the use of medieval terms wouldn't be familiar to his readers.........he also uses Latin terms w/out defining them. I may have to check in w/ some of you Latin students for interpretation... . What do you think authors are thinking when they do that?

He mentions sev'l books that he used as resources including a Pearl Buck translation of a Chinese book, All Men Are Brothers.............amazing how bits and pieces of tho'ts in my head come together at times.................here we were talking about Buck and here she is in the intro of Costain's book.

In my history classes, I called to the attention of the students those surnames that came about because some ancestor was in an occupation of that name. Ya know - mason, painter, carpenter, cooper, smith, wright, etc. I once taught w/ a man whose anme was Fenstermacher - window maker................... Well, i learned a new one last night - fletcher. He was using the term as the occupation of the father of a character. I had never heard that term, but, of course, knew it as a surname. ....................... i looked it up this morning and lo and behold it means arrow-maker!!!

This is going to be a good experience, i believe........jean
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JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1027 on: September 03, 2010, 02:58:17 PM »
JDORUM: WELCOME WELCOME!

We are in the Renaissance. I don't know which volume: many of us don't own the book, but rely on our leader to post text for us.

Brian

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1028 on: September 03, 2010, 06:12:59 PM »
Jdorum - - - Yes, Welcome !!

The last time we had a direct link from Robby (our fearless leader) was back in February.

Quote
In a little while I will be picking up where we left off.  We are in Durant's fifth volume of the Story of Civilization entitled "The Renaissance."  More specifically, we are in that chapter entitled "The Renaissance Captures Rome" and are reacting to Durant's comments about the Pope, Nicholas V, who was struggling to hold his position.
 

Since then we have had a few attempts to get back to discussing the book, but have been off the subject.  Which is a pity because the book is L - O - N - G , has been in discussion for years (four, I think) and will take forever, at this pace, to conclude.

I look forward to the return of Robby to the fold as he is, and has always been, the engine for this group.

Brian.

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1029 on: September 03, 2010, 09:27:14 PM »
I hope our NZ contingent have not been in danger because of the earthquake..........has anybody talked to Trevor?............isn't he in NZ?.....jean

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1030 on: September 03, 2010, 11:03:35 PM »
Mabel. I was not touched by the Earthquake In NZ. Thanks for asking. It was centred some 600 miles from my place ( Auckland ) As it happened at 0435 AM, there were few people about in the CBD of Christchurch, where old buildings suffered severe damage. Seems only 2 people severely hurt, and remarkably, no deaths. ++ Trevor


JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1031 on: September 04, 2010, 02:25:54 PM »
Thank goodness. I think Kiwi Lady is in Aukland too?

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1032 on: September 04, 2010, 04:21:58 PM »
Good to hear from you Trevor..............jean

Robby

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1033 on: September 08, 2010, 07:28:25 AM »
Due to my many activities in the local community, it is impossible --  at least for a period of time -- to continue as Discussion Leader.  My interest continues but I know when my plate is full.  Perhaps someone else here might consider making arrangements to officially take over.  In the meantime the "powers that be" suggest that SofC be placed in the archives.

Robby

Persian

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1034 on: September 09, 2010, 11:10:26 AM »
JOAN - Kiwi Lady (Carolyn) posted the following message a few days ago in the Seniors & Learn site RE the recent earthquake.  She has been a longtime friend to many of us, so thought I would post the good news here.

Mahlia
*************************************
The quake was many miles from me. It was in Christchurch which is our second largest city. We are blessed so far no fatalities. Authorities are doing stellar job. My daughters company has a plant near there and is supplying bottled water. ( she got an email to inform her about this) Everyone is chipping in to help. Damage is heavy. Many beautiful old historic buildings damaged. Cost will run into billions they say. some people had heart attacks from the quake. Two in ICU one is very serious a large chimney fell on him. Some miraculous escapes too. There are search and rescue dogs checking out all the rubble. Christchurch city centre has been evacuated. I feel sorry for the children. The quake was at 4.35am and many will be too traumatised to go to bed for some time yet. They will be scared it will happen again.

After shocks continue constantly.

They say there will probably be another big aftershock.

Carolyn

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1035 on: September 09, 2010, 02:19:52 PM »
I'm so glad Carolyn is alright. Is she posting in Seniors and Friends?

JoanP

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1036 on: September 09, 2010, 04:34:41 PM »
Robby, we understand how busy you are.  There are only so many hours in the day.  We all understand  how difficult it is for you to step down from your leadership here after so many years.  Obviously no one here feels he/she can take your place.  So.  Reluctantly, we will be moving this discussion to the Archives until you find your schedule less demanding...it will be an easy matter to bring it back. 

Thanks for the many years, many discussions under your leadership, old friend!

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1037 on: September 09, 2010, 11:29:47 PM »
Oh, yes, I hope that we can get back to the discussion in the future. You have been valiant, Robby, getting the discussion thru 5 volumes. Thank you for your time and kindness and diligence. .........i'll miss the time w/ you all and all your wonderful knowledge that everyone shared........Jean

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1038 on: September 10, 2010, 12:11:18 AM »
I will miss this discussion very much. It is the one that led me to Seniornet. And I hope you wonderful people who post here will continue to post in other discussions. At least, come over to "nonfiction" and tell us what other history and art books you are reading.

http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=84.1200

Justin

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1039 on: September 10, 2010, 02:32:30 AM »
I am relieved to know that all the folks from NZ are safe from quake damage.

I suppose we have seen this sad day coming for some time  but now that it is here we must either  bear with it till you return or find a temporary substitute. I am not a typist of any kind or I would try to undertake the task.

Do I read your last message correctly, Trevor? Is there a chance you might take up the challenge?

Robbie: No matter what happens next, your service over the past five years has been of the yeoman variety and deserving of all the accolades I can offer. Thank you. Come back soon, Please.