Author Topic: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant  (Read 371974 times)

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1560 on: December 21, 2011, 08:38:33 PM »

"I want to know what were the steps by which
man passed from barbarism to civilization (Voltaire)"

   



What are our origins?
Where are we now?
Where are we headed?
Share your thoughts with us!
   Volume Five (The Renaissance)
       
"Four elements constitute Civilization -- economic provision, political organization, moral traditions, and the pursuit of knowledge and the arts. "
 
"I shall proceed as rapidly as time and circumstances will permit, hoping that a few of my contemporaries will care to grow old with me while learning. "
       
"These volumes may help some of our children to understand and enjoy the infinite riches of their inheritance."
       
"Civilization begins where chaos and insecurity ends."




In this volume the  term "Renaissance" refers only to Italy. Will Durant studies the growth of industry, the rise of banking families like the Medici, the conflicts of labor and capital and considers the reasons why Italy was the first nation, and Florence the first city in Italy, to feel the awakening of the modern mind. He follows the cultural flowering from Florence to Milan, Mantua, Ferrata, Verona and Venice, Padua and Parma, Bologna, Rimini, Urbino, Perugia, Siena, and Naples. 

In each city of Italy we witness a colorful pageant of princes, queeens, dukes, or doges -- of poets, historians, scientists, and philosophers -- of painters, sculptors, engravers, illuminators, potters, and architects -- of industry, education, manners, morals, crime, and dress -- of women and love and marriage -- of epidemics, famines, earthquakes, and death.

Dr. Durant draws vivid vignettes -- of Petrarch, Boccaccio, Cosimo de' Medici, Fra Angelico, Donatello, Beatrice and Isabella d'Este, Leonardo da Vinci, Piero della Francesca, Signorelli, Perugino, Giovanni Bellini, Giorgione, Aldus Manutius, Correggio, Alexander VI, Caesar and Lucrezia Borgia, Julius II, Leo X, Raphael, and Michelangelo.

The Renaissance, by recalling classic culture, ended the thousand year rule of the Oriental mind in Europe.


This volume, then, is about YOU. Join our group daily and listen to what Durant and the rest of us are saying. Better yet, share with us your opinions.

SeniorLearn Contact: JoanK & Discussion Facilitator: Trevor
 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks Joan for the image of Luigi Cornaro.

My post was about Jerome Cardan, the first short bio that Durant gave us. After reading what I wrote I realized I could have said it all in one sentence. Put Cardan's own words in quote, and then have written my one sentence.

"I don't believe a word of it."

Emily

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1561 on: December 21, 2011, 10:05:08 PM »
Emily Your dismissal of Gerolamo Cardano, AKA Jerome Cardan,  seems a little harsh. As well as his prominence in medicine he was also an outstanding mathematician. His finding of the full solution to cubic equations (after stealing a hint from Tartaglia),was first class and he made the first discoveries in the mathematical theory of probability. In his work on cubic and quintic equations he also was the first to glimpse and note the existence of  complex numbers.

 Probability and complex numbers are at the heart of present day theories on Quantum Mechanics!  Also he designed the very first combination lock on safes, and invented the universal joint named after him as a 'cardan-shaft', a device fitted today on the drive shaft of every motor car.

I think he was much more than a non-entity.  Trevor

Emily

  • Posts: 365
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1562 on: December 22, 2011, 12:46:57 AM »
Trevor, I was responding to what Durant wrote. An excerpt......

Quote
Niccolo Tartaglia found a way to solve cubic equations; he confided his method to Jerome Cardan ( Geronimo Cardano), who published it as his own ( 1545 ).

Durant traveled to Italy and read the documents published at the time of this incident. I trust Durant not a later day rewriting of history. Jerome Cardan was a thief according to what Durant wrote. Durant said that Niccolo Tartaglia solved the equation and told Cardan about it, nothing about a 'hint'. Cardan published it as his own. That is the record of what happened. Cardan outlived Tartaglia and evidently from what Durant wrote, published reams of claims to 'his own greatness.'

 Once a thief always a thief.

My comment about Cardan however pertained to his many autobiographies (there is a clue). I did not believe a word he wrote.

So in my opinion Cardan was a liar and a thief and no matter how long he lived, he was who he was. All the rewriting of history will not change that fact. It seems he met others with ideas, schematics, and prototypes that perhaps he purloined and claimed for his own.

Knowing his history puts everything he claimed or put his name on to question. By outliving all those he stole from, he said it often enough and wrote about it often enough that it became 'his' in his own mind, and history is full of such egomaniacs.

I am certainly not questioning your answer to my post. I am sure that is what you were taught in school. Quantum physics or mechanics is not my cup of tea, but charlatans are, and Cardan was a charlatan.

Emily 


JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1563 on: December 22, 2011, 03:56:17 PM »
I had no idea that the concept of complex numbers (numbers involving the square root of -1) was so old. Surely practical applications of it are much more recent?

Unfortunately, mathematicias and scientists "borrowing" idea and claiming them as there own is a lot more common than we would like to believe. There may be a fine (or not so fine) line between taking another's idea, and developing it in new ways and out and out stealing.

 And I was shocked to learn that this "borrowing" was also common among some of the classical  music composers that we revere.

Frybabe

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1564 on: December 22, 2011, 06:50:03 PM »
I did a little research on Cardan. He was an avid gambler, and in his work you can see the very beginnings of what eventually developed into the study of probability. He wasn't always right. He was positive that luck had a role, and that the attitude of the dice thrower had an effect on the outcome. His writings, according to the book, were the first evidence of an attempt to mathematically describe random patterns.

I first ran across the term pattern recognition in Psychology classes and Scientific American articles (especially having to do with sight and how the brain interprets what we see. Pattern recognition is big business now what with barcodes, RFID, and facial recognition software, for example. Oh, and lets not forget things like SETI, where the computers are looking for distinct patterns in the background noise of space. Uh oh, I am off on a tangent. Sorry!

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1565 on: December 27, 2011, 09:41:20 PM »
The Durants'  S  o  C
The Renaissance  Vol. V
Pages 711-714




The age of decline for Italy was a resurrection for Savoy. As a lad of eight Emmanuel Philibert might have seen the French invade and conquer the duchy (1536). At twenty-five he inherited its crown but not its soil; at twenty-nine he played a leading part in the victory of the Spanish and the English over the French at St. Quentin ( 1557); and two years later France surrendered to him his ruined country and bankrupt throne. His regeneration of Savoy and Piedmont was a masterpiece of statesmanship. The Alpine slopes of his duchy were the haunts of Vaudois heretics, who were progressively transforming Catholic Churches into whitewashed conventicles of Calvinist worship. Pope Pius IV offered him a year’s ecclesiastical revenues to suppress the sect; Emmanuel took some drastic measures, but when these resulted in large scale emigration he turned to a policy of tolerance, checked the ardour of the Inquisition, and gave asylum to Huguenot refugees. He founded  a new university at Turin, and financed the compilation of an encyclopaedia. He was always courteous, and repeatedly unfaithful, to his wife,  Margaret of Valois, who gave him wise council and diplomatic aid, and who presided over the bright social life and intellectual life of Turin. When Emmanuel died (1580) his duchy was one of the best governed lands in Europe. From his lines in the nineteenth century would come the kings of united Italy.

Meanwhile Andrea Doria, who in the late wars had passed from French to Spanish sides with timely treachery, maintain his leadership in Genoa. The bankers there had helped to finance the campaigns of Charles V, who repaid them by leaving undisturbed their domination of the city. Not as badly hurt as Venice by the movement of commerce out of the Mediterranean into the Atlantic, Genoa  became again a great port and strategic citadel. Galeazzo Alessi of Perugia, a pupil of Michelangelo, built sumptuous churches and palaces in Genoa. Vasari described the Via Balbi as the most splendid street in Italy.*

When Francesco Maria Sforza, last of his line as rulers, died in 1535, Charles V appointed an imperial vicar to govern Milan. Subjection brought peace, and the ancient city prospered once more. The most distinguished Milanese of the age was San Carlo Borromeo, who reinacted at the close of the Renaissance the role played by St. Ambrose in the decline of antiquity. He came of a rich patrician family; his uncle Pius IV made him a cardinal at twenty-one, and archbishop of Milan at twenty-two ( 1560). he was probably at that time the richest prelate in Christendom. But he renounced all his benefices except the archbishopric, gave the proceeds to charity , and consumed himself in almost fanatical devotion to the Church. He founded the order of Oblates of St. Ambrose, brought the Jesuits into Milan and vigorously supported all movements for ecclesiastical reform that remained loyal to Catholicism. Accustomed to wealth and power, he insisted on the full medieval jurisdiction of his Episcopal court, took into his hands much of the work of maintaining law and order, filled his Episcopal dungeons with criminals and heretics, and for twenty-four years was the real ruler of the city. All the cardinal’s severity was forgiven when, in the plague of 1576, while most notables fled, he stayed at his post and comforted the sick and bereaved with tireless visits, vigils, and prayers.

As we take our parting look at Renaissance Rome we are struck by the rapidity of her recovery from the disaster of 1527. Clement VII had shown more skill in remedying the ruin than in preventing it. His surrender to Charles had saved the Papal States, and their revenues helped the papacy to finance the restoration of Church discipline and the partial reconstruction of Rome. The full effect of the Reformation in reduced income was not yet felt in the papal treasury; and under Paul III the spirit and splendour of the Renaissance seemed for a moment revived.

Some arts were dying, others were being born or changing form. Giulio Clovio, a Croatian domiciled with Cardinal Farnese, was almost the last of the great illuminators of manuscripts. But in 1567 Claudio Monteverdi was born at Cremona; soon opera and oratorio would be added to the arts, and the polyphonic masses of Palestrina were already celebrating the reinvigoration of the Church. The great age of Italian painting was ending; Perino del Vaga and Giovanni da Udine, epigoni of Raphael, turned the art toward decoration. Sculpture was  becoming baroque; Raffaello da Montelupo and Giovanni da Montorsoli exaggerated the exaggerations of their master Michelangelo, and produced statues with limbs contorted into original but bizarre and ungainly poses.

The most popular architect in or about Rome in this age was Giacomo Barozzi da Vignola. Coming from Bologna to study the classic ruins, he formed his style by marrying the pantheon of Agrippa to the basilica of Julius Caesar., seeking to combine cupola and arches, columns and pediments; and, like Palladio, he wrote a book to propagate his principles. But his most influetial work was done at Rome in the Villa di Papa Giulio, and the church of the Gesu (1568-75) In this famous edifice, built for the rising Jesuits, Vignola designed a nave of impressive breadth and height, and converted the aisles into chapels; later architects would make this church the first clear manifestation of the baroque style--
curved or contorted forms surfeited with ornament. In 1564 Vignola succeeded Michelangelo as chief architect at St. Peter’s, and shared in the honour of raising the great dome that Angelo had designed.



*The Via Balbi was shattered in the Second World War.


Frybabe

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1567 on: December 28, 2011, 04:59:04 PM »
I didn't know Andrea Doria was anything but a ship. Here is Wikipedia's skimpy article. I put it here because of the pictures.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Doria

Here is a link to more useful information about Doria. http://www.nndb.com/people/692/000093413/


mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1568 on: December 29, 2011, 01:36:37 PM »
I was in college, studying European history, before i realized that Italy as i knew it in the 1940s and 50s didn't come into being until the 1870s. What a surprise that was.

Why was the "great age of Italian painting ......ending?" was it because of a loss of patrons? Was there a diminishing of the number of "schools" w/ the deaths of the great artists? Was it bcs of the constant wars? The diminishing of the Catholic Church? The rise of protestanism? Surely there was no difference in the amount of talented people, or if there was, why?

Our PBS station is showing a documentary on Martin Luther this week, you might want to look for it on your station.

Jean

 

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1569 on: December 29, 2011, 03:15:43 PM »
'Why was the "great age of Italian painting ......ending?"'

That's the 64 dollar question. Why does a certain period have a certain flavor, followed, often, by its opposite? This seems to be true throughout history. Durant seems to think in this case that it was the church's reaction to the reformation, that stifled thought and also creativity.

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1570 on: December 29, 2011, 07:48:34 PM »
'Why was the "great age of Italian painting ......ending?"'

I think the cause of the decline in "Italian" art was, as Durant indicates, the economic strength slipped away from the Roman church, and Italian cities. It was supplanted by the rise of the Protestant church , and the Atlantic port cities of western Europe. Art needs wealthy patrons.

Western Europe ( Portugal, France, England, Holland, Germany,) took over from the Mediterranean centres about 1550,  for 350 years, then suffered  a steep decline at the end of the Victorian age, which saw the U.S. become the world centre.  Today, that centre seems to be shifting again, to China, and the East.  Trevor

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1571 on: December 30, 2011, 04:53:55 PM »
But did we in the US have a similar flowering of the arts? Will China now?

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1572 on: December 30, 2011, 06:36:02 PM »
Did US have a flowering of the arts ?  Well for many, Hollywood is THE art centre of the world....  I read in yesterday's paper that a painting of one panel of a children's comic was sold recently at some fabulous price by a US art gallery. The picture was of a stern detective peering through a key hold, and a speech balloon saying "this room is definitely empty". Don't know if I remember correctly, but I think the price was in the Sixty million bracket?  Art, Like beauty, is in the eye of the smitten, I guess.  Trevor
 

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1573 on: December 30, 2011, 09:43:47 PM »
The U.S. is full of artists, and they work by commission as they did in Rome. They do not work for one person or entity such as the Vatican but they come close. Painting portraits for the U.S. government can keep a bevy of artists busy. Here is an excerpt from one such group contacts............

Quote
Contacted by...
The White House, U.S. Senate, U.S. Supreme Court, the Pentagon, U.S. Coast Guard, U.S. Army, SOCOM, Homeland Security, Department of the Treasury, HUD and other United States and state government agencies, universities, hospitals, film industry, major corporations such as Tiffany & Company and New York Life Insurance have all referenced our site in the artist selection process.

Mural painting and trompe l'oeil is still done in buildings and private homes. I met one such artist who was commissioned to paint the dining room of a home with a mural. I have photos of his work but it was on film and I no longer have a scanner or I would put it here. His name was Erik Filban and he was only in his twenties, living in NYC and working for one of the famous decorators of the day. (this was in the 1990's) I looked him up and found out he had moved to Seattle, Wa. and has his own business that does between $500,000 and a million a year. He stayed in the guest house for a week or so while working and then came back for a couple of days to touch up. He was great.

Aaron Shikler who did the portrait of my boss is an artist. He also did some White House portraits namely Jackie Kennedy, Jack Kennedy, and Nancy Reagan. (these are the ones I know) there may be more.

Another and perhaps my favorite is Alejo Vidal-Quadros Roca. He did the portraits of my boss and his wife, working in Palm Beach. These were life size drawings (I think in charcoal).

Ann Street is another portratist who lives in Nashville and has sketched and drawn many of the leaders in the community and most definitely all their children. She has retired, but her work is very good.

When I think of previous centuries, John Singer Sargent comes to mind along with Mary Cassett. During the Renaissance the number of artists who were considered great would fill a page or two. In our country today it would probably fill a notebook.

Much of the art that is done is in private homes as it was during the Renaissance, but all our public offices both State and National are filled with art and certainly portraits.

How good this art is, as Trevor says, is up to the viewer. I am no artist, but I know what I like, and those that I have referenced are excellent in my opinion.

Many of these artists have banned together and with today's connections via websites can advertise their talents to a larger audience. Here is one with a group of artists and I've only heard of a couple of them, but they do portraits, a lot of them for the U.S. government.

http://www.portraitartist.com/

Emily




Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1574 on: December 30, 2011, 10:10:54 PM »
Alice Walton (walmart heiress) built a museum in the Ozarks in Arkansas featuring American artists. I read about this in the New Yorker but have plucked this from wiki to show some of the American art she has collected.

Quote
Her interest in art led to her spearheading the Walton Family Foundation's involvement in developing Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art. Crystal Bridges, opened in November of 2011, is envisioned as a premier venue for a national art institution dedicated to American art and artists, and a place of learning and community.

In December 2004, the art collection of Daniel Fraad and wife, Rita, went up for public auction at Sothebys in New York. Since almost every collector was at the auction, no one could figure out who on the phone was bidding such high prices. It was later discovered that Walton purchased at least $20 million worth of art that day. She bid for most of the items while on a three-year-old gelding named IC LAD preparing to compete in the first qualifying round of the National Cutting Horse Association Futurity at the Will Rogers Coliseum in Ft. Worth, TX.

In 2005, Walton purchased Asher Brown Durand's celebrated painting, Kindred Spirits, in a sealed-bid auction for a purported US$35 million dollars. The 1849 painting, a tribute to Hudson River School painter Thomas Cole, had been given to the New York Public Library in 1904 by Julia Bryant, the daughter of Romantic poet and New York newspaper publisher William Cullen Bryant (who is depicted in the painting with Cole). She has also purchased works by American painters Winslow Homer and Edward Hopper, as well as a notable portrait of George Washington by Charles Willson Peale, in preparation for the opening of the Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art in Bentonville, Arkansas. In 2009 Crystal Bridges museum has acquired Norman Rockwell's iconic Rosie the Riveter painting for its permanent collection at an undisclosed price.

John Wilmerding, an advisor and board member to Crystal Bridges said Walton has collected the work of some artists in depth, quietly buying substantial bodies of work by Martin Johnson Heade, Stuart Davis, George Bellows and John Singer Sargent. Walton's attempt to quit smoking led to the purchase two great smoking paintings by Alfred Maurer and Tom Wesselman. In a 2011 interview, she spoke about acquiring great works by other artists. She described Marsden Hartley as "one of my favorite artists-he was a very complex guy, somewhat tormented, but a very spiritual person, and love the emotion and the feel and the spirituality of his work". She went on to say "and Andrew Wyeth-the mystery and loneliness that is expressed. How do you paint loneliness?"

Walton serves on the board of the Amon Carter Museum in Fort Worth, Texas and is a member of the Trustees' Council of the National Gallery of Art in Washington, DC.

American art is alive and well (and expensive). The number of museums grow each year. It looks as though Alice Walton will have one of the largest collections of American art before she is finished.

Emily


mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1575 on: December 30, 2011, 11:39:16 PM »
I'm pleased that she is supporting artists, past and present, and horse breeders. I'm glad she is opening an art gallery in AK. I would be curious to know if she earned any of those millions, or did she inherit it all. I'm thinking of a quote from  a famous atty at the Army/McCarthy hearings ".....have you no shame?" Twenty million, or $35 million would have bought a lot of benefits for the employees of Walmart who labored in part-time jobs w/out any health care or pensions at minimum wage.

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1576 on: December 31, 2011, 12:05:08 AM »
Hi Mabel, I don't think Alice Walton 'earned' any of the millions she got from her father Sam. She is an heiress and as such can pay the 'millions' for art.

By buying art that has been in private collections and putting it in a museum the public will have access whereas before very few would see the work.

I understand that the money for the 'art' comes from the 'Walton Foundation' which is 'tax free' money set aside for the family to use for their purpose. Art seems to be her interest.

Emily

bookad

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1577 on: December 31, 2011, 06:12:16 PM »
hi there,

its Deb, from North Fort Myers...just got my copy of the next book in the series of 'civilization'....hard to believe so few pages left in this one....

just wanted to wish you all the best for the new year, and hope you're having a nice new years eve
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1578 on: January 01, 2012, 06:03:16 PM »
Hi, DEB. Good to see you back.

I'm reading an interesting book that was recommended here on Seniornet. It's called "The Swerve". It's about the discovery, during the Renaissance, of a hitherto unknown Roman manuscript by Lucretius, a follower of Epicurus. The author contends that this document influenced the spirit of the time, turning it in a secular direction. Critics say no: while the Renaissance was influence by classical philosophy, not in this way. I don't remember Durant talking about specifics of how Classical philosophy influenced the Renaissance.

Most of the book so far has been talking about how the ancient Greek and Roman manuscripts were preserved by monks, and about those who spent their lives going from monastery to monastery searching for unknown ones. The man who discovered this manuscript had previously been secretary to the Pope, so there is also a lot about the life in the Papal state, pretty much as Durant presents it.

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1579 on: January 02, 2012, 03:30:25 AM »
The Durants'  S  o  C
Vol. V  The Renaissance.
Pages   714-716




                             MICHELANGELO:  THE LAST PHASE.   1534  -  1564 

Through all these years Michelangelo had survived as an unruly ghost from another age. He was 59 when Clement died, but no one seemed to think that he had earned the right to rest. Paul III and Francesco Maria of Urbino fought over his living body. The Duke, as executor for  Julius II, clamoured for the completion of his uncle’s tomb, and flourished a contract long since signed by Angelo. But the imperious pontiff would not hear of it. “For thirty years,” said Paul to Bounoarroti, “I have wanted you to join my service; and now that I am Pope will you disappoint me ?! That contract shall be torn up, and I’ll have you work for me, come what may!" The Duke protested, but finally settled for a much smaller mausoleum than Julius had dreamed of. The knowledge that the tomb was an abortion shared in darkening the Titan’s later years.
In 1535 the triumphant Pope issued a brief appointing Michelangelo chief architect, sculptor, and painter  at the Vatican, and proclaiming his eminence in each field. The artist was given a life pension of 1200  crowns a year. Clement VII, shortly before his death, had asked him to paint the fresco of the ’Last Judgment’ behind the alter of the Sistine Chapel. Paul proposed that this commission should now be carried out. Michael  was reluctant; he wanted to carve, not paint; he was happier with hammer and chisel than with brush. The very size of the wall to be painted--  sixty-six by thirty-three feet, might have given him pause. Nevertheless in September, 1535, aged sixty, he began his most famous painting.
Perhaps the repeated frustrations of his life-- the maimed mausoleum of Julius, the destruction of his statue of that pope at Bologna, the unfinished facade of San Lorenzo, the unfinished Medici tombs, -- had accumulated in him a bitterness that poured itself  into this consummation of divine wrath. Memories of Savonarola may have come back to him across forty years--  those dire prophecies of doom, those denunciations of human wickedness, clerical corruption, Medicean tyranny, intellectual pride, and pagan joys, those blasts of hell-fire searing the soul of Florence; now the dead martyr would speak again from the most intimate altar in Christendom. The sombre artist whom Leonardo had called learned in Dante would soak himself anew in the brine of the ‘Inferno’, and put its horrors on the wall where for generations to come future popes might have that inescapable judgment before them as they read Mass. And meanwhile, in this citadel of a religion that had until lately scorned and maligned the human body, he would be sculptor even with the brush, and would paint that body  in a hundred conditions and attitudes, in the contortions and grimaces of agony, in the drowsy then excited resurrection of the dead, in inflated angels blowing the fateful summons, in a Christ still showing His wounds, yet strong enough, with His titanic shoulders and Herculean arms, to hurl into hell those who had thought themselves superior to the commandments of God and even Christ Himself in His majestic anger, became an incarnation of the Adam of the Sistine ceiling, a God made in the image and likeness of man. There is too much flesh here, there, too many arms and legs, biceps and swelling calves, to lift the spirit to contemplate the wages of sin. Even the lecherous Aretino thought these pullulating nudes were a bit out of place. Everyone knows how Paul III’s master of ceremonies, Biagio da Cesena, complained that such a celebration of the human form would more fitly adorn a wineshop than the chapel of the popes; how Michelangelo avenged himself by painting Biagio among the damned; and how Paul ,when Biagio begged him to order the erasure of the portrait, replied with excellent humour and theology that not even a pope can release a soul from hell. Yielding to protests like Biagio’s, Paul IV bade Daniele da Volterra paint breeches on the more glaring parts; whereupon Rome called the poor artist ‘il Braghettone‘, the breeches tailor. The noblest figure in the dark panorama is completely clothed -- Mary, whose raiment is the master’s last triumph in the painting of drapery, and whose look of horror and mercy is the one redeeming element in this apotheosis of human ferocity.

After six years of labour the picture was unveiled for the Christmas celebration of 1541. A Rome now entering upon a religious reaction against the Renaissance accepted “The Last Judgment ‘ as good theology and great art. Vasari pronounced  it the most wonderful of all paintings. Artists admired the anatomy, and were not offended  by the muscular exaggerations, the bizarre attitude, the carnal excess; on the contrary many painters imitated these mannerisms of the Master, and formed the mannerist school that began the decadence of Italian art. Even laymen marvelled at the foreshortenings -- which gave parts of the picture the semblance of relief-- and the acute sense of perspective that had  made the lower figures two metres in height, the middle figures three, the upper figures four. We who view the fresco today cannot judge it fairly; it has been injured by Daniele’s tailoring, a further draping of some figures in 1762, and the dust and candle smoke and natural darkening of four centuries.

After some months of rest Michelangelo began (1542) work on two frescoes in the chapel that Antonio da Sangallo had built in the Vatican for Paul III. He was seventy-five when he completed these pictures, and he told Vasari that he painted them against his will, and with great effort and fatigue. He did not feel too old for sculpture; indeed, he said, the hammer and the chisel kept him in health. In 1539 he carved his stern and powerful ‘Brutus’ ( in the bargello), worthy of the greatest Roman portrait sculpture. Perhaps he meant it to sanction the recent tyrannicide of Alessandro de’ Medici in Florence, and to serve as a reminder to future despots. Eleven years later, in  a tenderer mood, he carved the ‘Pieta’ that stands behind the high altar of the Florentine cathedral. He hoped to make this his own sepulchral monument, and he worked on it feverishly. But an over furious blow of the hammer so injured the statue that he abandoned it as irrevocably spoiled. His servant Antonio Mini begged it as a gift, received it, and sold it to a Florentine. It is an astonishing product for a man of seventy-five years. The body of the dead Christ is represented without exaggeration;  the figure of Mary, unfinished, is tenderness petrified; and the noble face of the hooded Nicodemus could well portray, as some have thought, Michelangelo himself, who now so often meditated on the Passion of Christ.

bookad

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1580 on: January 03, 2012, 03:27:01 AM »
Joan K--the book you mentioned sounds interesting, so interesting that there are 18 reserves for it on the library system down here; but the CD audio copy looks free so have put a hold on it...failing that there is a copy in the Midland library at home in Ontario....following Durant's  renaissance book seems like one corrupt pope after the other, couldn't put a mind map to the course of events; though it is interesting to realize how large a religion grew out of that background, with some narrow minded principals as not allowing birth control (or that is how I read it)

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1581 on: January 03, 2012, 10:38:57 PM »
Welcome back Bookad, drop by more often.

Link below is Brutus sculpture by Michelangelo.......

http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/michelangelo/bust-of-brutus

Emily


JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1582 on: January 04, 2012, 05:53:14 PM »
Yes, BOOKAD: the picture of the Popes that "The Swerve" posts is just as bad as Durant's picture, perhaps worse.

I really like michalangelo's sculpture. I assume he didn't really know what brutus looked like, and just made him look like a noble Roman. (Although, he could have had an idea, if a Roman bust had survived. The Romans were the first to do portraiture: their busts look like real perople, unlike the greek's, which were always idealized.

What a mixed up time this is: degregation and beautiful art. You have to love it and hate it.

Emily

  • Posts: 365
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1583 on: January 04, 2012, 10:24:07 PM »
I agree Joan that it is a mixed up time.

When I read of Biagio's complaint about Michelangelo's painting, it reminded me of a quote. When Michelangelo included him in the painting as one of the damned, Biagio went on the offensive and complained to the Pope. When that didn't work he was still complaining to the next Pope, Paul IV, that had a another painter put breeches on some of the most glaring parts.

As a result of all this bickering Biagio's name wound up in the Papal record, Durant reads it 400 years later and writes about it and here sixty years or so later we are again reading about Biagio the damned.

Had Biagio simply remained silent on this matter no one within a few years would have remembered. Here is the quote I was reminded of from Charles Dickens.

"Death is nature's remedy for all things."

Emily

bookad

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1584 on: January 05, 2012, 03:22:05 AM »
I have a collection of 'quotes' that 'hit home' about the world
and life generally--have not heard that quote before, and will
have to include it in my collection.
bookad
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

bookad

  • Posts: 284
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1585 on: January 08, 2012, 10:54:05 AM »
JoanK--just finished disc 1 of 8...of 'The Swerve'..finding it quite interesting as I came midway into the book 'The Renaissance' couldn't seem to get much more from it other than the hipocracy & underhanded going on with the papal group

I was really quite interested to find Michelangelo wasn't able to pursue his main love of sculpturing being cornered into  painting religious extensive time consuming murals 

anyway really getting into this book & have to thank the 18 people who had reserved the book copy of 'The Swerve' the narrator has a nice voice and lets one relax and let the words flow over, a lovely alternative to reading the material

I notice the Durant's books are now available on CD's; I wonder how they would be to listen to ...not about to buy any though

Deb
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

3kings(Trevor)

  • Posts: 347
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1586 on: January 11, 2012, 02:18:24 AM »
Durants'  S  o  C
Vol.V      The Renaissance
Pages  724 - 728




                                            ENVOI.

It has been a profound and grateful experience to study so many of the phases and personalities of these rich and vibrant centuries. How endless was the wealth of this Renaissance, which even in its waning produced men like Tintoretto, and Veronese, Aretino and Vasari, Paul III and Palestrina, Sansovino and Palladio, Duke Cosimo and Cellini, and such art as the rooms of the ducal Palace and St. Peter’s dome! What frightening vitality there must have been in those Renaissance Italians, living amid violence, seduction, superstition, and war, and yet eagerly alive to every form of beauty and artistry, and pouring forth-- as if all Italy had been a volcano -- the hot lava of their passions and their art, their architecture and assassinations, their sculpture and liaisons, their painting and brigandage, their Madonnas and grotesques, their hymns and macaronic verse, their obscenities and piety, their profanity and prayers! Has there ever been elsewhere such depth and intensity of Yea-saying life ? To this day we feel the lifting breath of that afflatus, and our museums overflow with the spared surplus of that inspired and frenzied age.

It is difficult to judge it calmly, and we grudgingly rehearse the charges that have been brought against it. First of all, the Renaissance ( limiting that term to Italy ) was based materially upon the economic exploitation of the simple many by the clever few. The wealth of papal Rome came from the pious pennies of a million European homes; the splendor of Florence was the transmuted sweat of lowly proletaires who worked long hours, had no political rights, and were better off than medieval serfs only in sharing the proud glory of civic art and the exciting stimulus of city life. Politically the Renaissance was the replacement of republican communes with  mercantile oligarchies and military dictatorships. Morally it was a pagan revolt that sapped the theological supports of the moral code, and left human instincts grossly free to use as they pleased the new wealth of commerce and industry. Unchecked by the censorship from a Church herself secularized and martial, the state declared itself above morality in government, diplomacy, and war.

Renaissance art ( the indictment continues ) was beautiful, but seldom sublime. It excelled Gothic art in detail, but fell short of it in grandeur, unity, and total effect; it rarely reached Greek perfection or Roman majesty. It was the voice of an aristocracy of wealth that divorced the artist from the artisan, up rooted him from the people, and made him dependent upon upstart princes and rich men. It lost its soul to a dead antiquity and enslaved architecture and sculpture to ancient and alien forms. What an absurdity it was to put false Greco-Roman fronts upon Gothic churches, as Aklberti did in Florence and Rimini! perhaps the whole classical revival in art was a grievous mistake. A style once dead cannot properly be revitalised unless the civilization that it expressed can be restored; the vigour and health of the style lie in its harmony with the life and culture of its time. There was in the great age of Greek and Roman art, a stoic restraint idealized by Greek thought and often realized in Roman character; but that restraint was quite foreign to the Renaissance spirit of freedom, passion, turbulence, and excess. What could be more contrary to the Italian temper in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries than the flat roof and ceiling, the regular rectangular facade, the dreary rows of identical windows, that stigmatized the Renaissance  palace? When Italian architecture tired of this monotony and artificial classicism, it let itself go, like a Venetian merchant robed for Titian, in excessive ornament and splendour, and fell from the classic into the baroque-- ‘corruptio optimi pessima’.

Neither could classic express the Renaissance. For restraint is essential to sculpture; the enduring medium does not fitly embody a contortion or an agony that by its nature must be brief. Sculpture is a motion immobilized, passion spent or controlled, beauty or form preserved from time by metal congealed or lasting stone. Perhaps for this reason the greatest sculptures of the renaissance are mostly tombs or ‘pietas’, in which restless man has at last achieved tranquillity. Donatello, try as he might to be classic, remained striving, aspiring, Gothic; Michelangelo was a law to himself, a titan imprisoned in his temperament, struggling through ‘Slaves’ and ‘Captives’ to find aesthetic peace, but ever too lawless and excited for repose.

Renaissance painting succeeded in expressing the colour and passion of the time, and brought the art to a technical refinement never surpassed. But it too, had its faults. Its stress was on sensuous beauty, on lordly raiment and rosy flesh; even its religious pictures were a voluptuous sentimentality, more intent upon corporeal forms than upon spiritual significance; and many a medieval crucifix reaches deeper into the soul than the demure Virgins of Renaissance art. Flemish and Dutch artists dared to picture unattractive faces and homely dress, and to seek behind these simple features the secrets of Character and the elements of life. How superficial the nudes of Venice == even the Madonnas of Raphael== seem beside the Van Eycks’”Adoration of the Lamb.”

Well, what shall we say to this harsh indictment of an epoch that we have loved with all the enthusiasm of youth ? We shall not try to refute that indictment; though it is weighted with unfair comparisons, much of it is true. Refutations never convince, and to pit one half truth against its opposite is vain unless the two can be merged into a larger and juster view. Of course the Renaissance culture was an aristocratic superstructure raised upon the  backs of the labouring poor; but, alas, what culture has not been ? Doubtless much of the literature and art could hardly have arisen without some concentration of wealth; even for righteous writers unseen toilers mine the earth, grow food, weave garments, and make ink. We shall not defend the despots; some of them deserved a Borgian garrotting; many of them wasted in vain luxury the revenues drawn from the people; but neither shall we apologise for Cosimo and his grandson Lorenzo, whom the Florentines  obviously preferred to a chaotic plutocracy As for the moral laxity, it was the price of intellectual liberation; and heavy as the price was, that liberation is the invaluable birthright of the modern world, the very breath of our spirits today.

For Renaissance painting there shall be no word of apology; it is still the high point of that art in history. Spain approached that zenith in the halcyon days of Velasquez, Murillo, Ribera, Zurbaran, and El Greco; Flanders and Holland came not quite so close in Rubens and Rembrandt. Chinese and Japanese painters scaled heights of their own’ and at times their pictures impress us as especially profound, if only because they see man in a large perspective; yet their cold, contemplative philosophy and decorative elegance is outweighed by the richer range of complexity and power, and the warm vitality of colour, in the pictorial art of the Florentines, of Raphael and Correggio and the Venetians. Indeed Renaissance painting was a sensual art, though it produced some of the greatest religious paintings, and -- as on the Sistine ceiling-- some of the most spiritual and sublime. But that sensuality was a wholesome reaction. The body had been vilified long enough; woman had borne through ungracious centuries the abuse of a harsh asceticism; it was good that life should reaffirm, and art enhance, the loveliness of  human forms. The Renaissance had tired of original sin, breast beating, and mythical post-mortem terrors; it turned its back upon death and its face to life; and long before Schiller and Beethoven it sang an exhilarating, incomparable ode to joy.

For a time the tensions of Reformation and Counter Reformation, the debates of theology and the wars of religion, overlaid and overwhelmed the influence of the Renaissance; men fought through a bloody century for the freedom to believe and worship as they pleased, or as pleased their kings; and the voice of reason seemed stilled by the clash of militant faiths. But it was not altogether silent; even in that unhappy desolation men like Erasmus, Bacon, and Descartes echoed it bravely, gave it fresh and stronger utterance; Spinoza found for it a majestic formulation; and in the eighteenth century the spirit of the Italian Renaissance was reborn in the French Enlightenment. The strain was carried on, through revolution and counterrevolution, through advance and reaction, somehow surviving war, and patiently ennobling peace. Everywhere today in Europe and the Americas there are urbane and lusty spirits-- comrades in the Country of the Mind-- who feed and live on this legacy of mental freedom, aesthetic sensitivity, friendly and sympathetic understanding; forgiving life its tragedies, embracing its joys of sense, mind, and soul; and hearing ever in their hearts, amid hymns of hate and above the cannon’s roar, the song of the Renaissance.


3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1587 on: January 11, 2012, 02:26:29 AM »
That is the finish of Vol. V.  Next we start  The Reformation  Vol. VI.
A history of European Civilization from Wyclif to Calvin :  1300  -  1564.

Hope you will stay with us.  --  Trevor

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1588 on: January 11, 2012, 01:42:45 PM »
I still need to read this last post, but i was curious, i know Robby had posted this before, but i have forgotten the particulars - when did this discussion start? Can Robby tell us how long he anticipated it would take to go thru the 11 volumes? I think it's fascinating how much discussion these volumes have generated and I'm sure the Durands wld be amazed to find us here in 2012.  :D :D
 Thanks to all of you who have honchoed the discussion, especially Robby. I wish he wld pop in and let us know how he is doing.

Thanks to all of you who have contributed to the discussion, i have learned a lot from all of you and enjoyed the links that you have proided.

Jean

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1589 on: January 12, 2012, 03:47:52 PM »
Oh, my. There is so much to think of in this las post. Whom is Durant arguing with. In the first 5 paragraphs he presents one point of view, and criticizes it in the rest. Is the beginning a quote?

And whom are we going to agree with? There is a question there. Do we need the liscventiousness and immorality of the rennaissance in order to have its art? How will we see art and creativity springing up again around the corners of the repression of ideas in the period that follows? (Durant's purple prose is very bad for my writing!)

trevor, I hope you're willing to go on: I certainly am.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1590 on: January 12, 2012, 03:59:07 PM »
TREVOR: I posted this for the Bookbytes going out today, assuming that you wanted to go on. If not. let Marcie or me know.

THE STORY OF CIVILIZATION: well, the Renaissance is over, with all its glory and immorality, and we are about to start a new volume about the Reformation. If you've hesitated to jump into the middle of a discussion, now is the perfect time: we can all start the new book together. 

Brian

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1591 on: January 12, 2012, 06:47:42 PM »
Thanks Trevor for taking over from Robby.   You are doing a heroic job.

Before we leave the Renaissance,  if there is anyone who has not visited this site : -
http://www.vatican.va:80/various/cappelle/sistina_vr/index.html
to see the Sistine Chapel in detail,  take this opportunity to leave with a bang.
You can move around freely and the zoom is fantastic.

Brian

bookad

  • Posts: 284
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1592 on: January 12, 2012, 08:57:12 PM »
thank you for re-posting that Brian; I had deleted all my bookmarks from previous posts thru the book--that we have the ability to view with all the perspectives thru our technologies is wonderful, especially as I know I'll never travel off our continent except vicariously in my arm chair with a book or computer
I have the next book in hand ready to start.
Deb
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

JoanK

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  • Posts: 8685
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1593 on: January 13, 2012, 03:22:24 PM »
I don't know what we would do without Trevor. You're the greatest!

Speaking of the Reformation, there wass a biography of Martin Luther on PBS recently. As usual, I didn't know it was going to be on and only caught bits of it. Did any of you catch it?

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1594 on: January 14, 2012, 10:36:41 PM »
The Durants'  S  o  C
Vol. VI.   The Reformation
Pages  4 - 8  



                                The Roman Catholic Church     1300-1517
 Through a formative millennium, from Constantine to Dante, the Christian Church offered the gifts of religion to men and states. It moulded the figure of Jesus into a divine embodiment of virtues by which rough barbarians might be shamed into civilization. It formulated a creed that made every man’s life a part, however modest, of a sublime cosmic drama; it bound each individual in a momentous relation with God Who had created him, Who had spoken to him in sacred Scriptures, Who had therin given him a moral code, Who had descended from heaven to suffer ignominy and death in atonement for the sins of humanity, and Who had founded the Church as the repository of His teaching and the earthly agent of His power. Year by year the magnificent drama grew; saints and martyrs died for the creed, and bequeathed their example and their merits to the faithful. A hundred forms-- a hundred thousand works-- of art interpreted the drama and made it vivid even for letter less minds. Mary the Virgin Mother became “ the fairest flower of all poesy,” the formative model of feminine delicacy and maternal love, the recipient of the tenderest hymns and devotions, the inspirer of majestic architecture, sculpture, painting, poetry, and music. An impressive ceremony raised daily, from a million altars, the mystic and exalting solemnity of the Mass. Confession and penance purified the contrite sinner, prayer comforted and strengthened him, the Eucharist brought him into an awesome intimacy with Christ, the last sacraments cleansed and anointed him in expectation of paradise. Rarely had religion developed such artistry in its ministrations to mankind.

The Church was at her best when she took the place vacated by the Roman Imperial government as the chief source of order and peace in the Dark Ages, ( approximately  524 - 1079 ) of the Christian world. To the Church, more than any to any other institution, Europe owed the resurrection of civilization in the West after the barbarian inundation of Italy, Gaul, Britain, and Spain. Her monks developed waste lands, her monasteries gave food to the poor, education to boys, lodging to travellers;  her hospitals  received the sick and the destitute. Her nunneries sheltered mate less women and directed their maternal impulses to social ends; for centuries the nuns alone provided schooling for girls. For a thousand years, from Ambrose to Wolsey, it was the Church that trained Western Europe’s teachers, scholars, judges, diplomats, and ministers of the state;  the medieval state rested on the Church. When the Dark Ages ended -- say with the birth of Abelard -- it was the Church that built the universities and the Gothic Cathedrals, providing homes for the intellect, as well as for the piety, of men. Through nine centuries almost all European art was inspired and financed by the Church, and even when art took a pagan colour the popes of the Renaissance continued their patronage.

Above all, the Church at her zenith gave to the states of Europe an international moral code and government.  The Roman Church, claiming divine establishment and spiritual leadership, proposed herself as an international court, to which all rulers and states were to be morally responsible. Pope Gregory VII formulated this doctrine of a Christian Republic of Europe. The Emperor Henry the IV, recognized it by submitting to Gregory at Canossa ( 1077); A century later a stronger emperor, Frederick Barbarossa, after a long resistance, humbled himself at Venice before a weaker pope Alexander III; and in 1198 Pope Innocent III raised the authority and prestige of the papacy to a point where for a time it seemed that Gregory’s ideal of a moral superstate had come to fulfilment.  

The great dream broke on the nature of man. The administrators of the papal judiciary proved human, biased, venal, even extortionate; and the kings and peoples, also human, resented any supernational power. The growing wealth  of France stimulated her pride of national sovereignty; Philip IV successfully challenged the authority of Pope Boniface VIII over the property of the French Church; the kings emissaries imprisoned the aged Pontiff for three days at Anagni, and Boniface died soon afterward ( 1303). In one of its aspects -- the revolt of secular rulers against the popes -- the Reformation there and then began.

                                           The Church at  Nadir.  1307 - 1417

Throughout the fourteenth century the Church suffered political humiliation and moral decay She had begun with the profound sincerity and devotion of Peter and Paul; she had grown into a majestic system of familial, scholastic, social international discipline, order, and morality; she was now degenerating into a vested interest absorbed in self-perpetuation and finance. Philip IV secured the election of a Frenchman to the papacy, and persuaded him to move the Holy See to Avignon on the Rhone. For 68 years the popes were so clearly the pawns and prisoners of France that other nations gave them a rapidly diminishing reverence and revenue. The harassed pontiffs replenished their treasury by multiple levies upon the hierarchy, the monasteries, and the parishes. Every ecclesiastical appointee was required to remit to the papal Curia-- the administrative bureaus of the papacy -- half the income of the office for the first year, and thereafter annually a tenth or tithe. On the death of any cardinal, archbishop, bishop, or abbot, his personal possessions reverted to the papacy. In the interim between the death of an ecclesiastic and the  installation of his successor, the popes received the net revenues of the benefice, and were accused of prolonging this interval.

“Wolves are in control of the Church,” cried the Spanish prelate Alvaro Pelayo, “ and feed on the blood.” of the Christian flock. Edward III of England, himself an adept in taxation, reminded Clement VI  “ that the  successor of the Apostles was commissioned to lead the Lord’s sheep to pasture, not to fleece them “  In Germany papal collectors were hunted down, imprisoned, mutilated, strangled. In 1372 the clergy of Cologne, Bonn, Xanthein, and Mainz bound themselves by oath not to pay the tithe levied by Gregory XI.

Amid all the complaints and revolts, the popes continued to assert their absolute sovereignty over the kings of the earth. About 1324 Agostino Trionfo wrote “The power of the Pope is from God, Whose  vice-regent he is on earth; even when he is a great sinner he must be obeyed, he may be deposed by a general council of the Church for manifest heresy; but short of this his authority is second only to God’s, and transcends that of all earthly potentates. The pope stands higher than the angels, and may receive equal reverence with the Virgin and the saints. Nevertheless the flight of the popes from Rome, and their subservience to France, undermined their authority and prestige. The English government fumed at the loans of the popes to the kings of France during the Hundred Years’ War, and connived at the attacks of Wyclif upon the papacy.

In 1376 Florence, quarrelling with Pope Gregory XI, confiscated all ecclesiastical property in its territory, demolished the buildings of the Inquisition, jailed or hanged resisting priests, and called upon Italy to end all temporal power of the Church. It became clear that the Avignon popes were losing Europe in their devotion to France. In 1377 Gregory XI returned the papacy to Rome.


Emily

  • Posts: 365
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1595 on: January 14, 2012, 11:01:47 PM »
Thanks Trevor for leading us to the end of the Renaissance, I thought for a while we would never get there, but you have led us out of the wilderness.

Trevor has been in this discussion since the very beginning and has now been here longer than anyone including Robby. It would be nice if both Robby and Justin dropped in to let us know all is well.

I don't have the Reformation, but will get it at the library and continue with the discussion.

Durant has taken us through Italy for almost three hundred years, and now he will tell us what was going on in the rest of Europe while Italy slid in and out of the Renaissance. He lists the years 1300-1564.

My ancestors were still in Europe during this time in both France and England. By the end of this time period France would have chased away both its native son and daughter (my grandparents-many times removed) and they would eventually come to America and never return, though their descendants would in both war and peace.

Forward march!

Emily

bookad

  • Posts: 284
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1596 on: January 15, 2012, 11:23:17 AM »
I may be out of line; but ....are we part of a divine cosmic drama
or...is it all a  comedy??
the church is part of what leads to greater harmonious relationships
between groups then succumbs to greed, etc., etc., etc.,  leading to
the roman catholic downfall eventually as pope's took more and more
advantage of those who entrusted their faith in them

don't understand the first part of
Quote
her monks developed wastelands
!! that part of the quote....the rest follows is self evident to me
Quote
her monasteries gave food to the poor, education to boys, lodging to travelers; her hospitals received the sick and the destitute. Her nunneries sheltered
....
and so on

---------------------
glad  to be underway in this book, have been looking forward to this for a long time
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3656
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1597 on: January 15, 2012, 11:57:12 AM »
What a good summary of millenium! I am not religious and as a student of history my summary readings have generally had negative things to say about the what the Church was doing, that first section is the best, most concise, positive statement that i have ever read about the Church's activities.

If i understand your comment, bookad, about "wastelands", i too stopped and went back to reread that. The first time i read it i read " the Church MADE wastelands." but rereading i recognizedit meant "the Church made farmland OUT OF wastelands."

Joan, i saw most of the Martin Luther show. It was very good. I learned that in my teaching of the importance of the Reformation i had missed a bit. I taught survey courses on Western Civ and was therefore being largely superficial, just hitting the big ideas and one of the ideas coming out of the Reformation was that the individual mattered. That the individual could have his/her own relationship w/ God, from there a straight line to democracy and individual rights. The program pointed out that Luther got so concerned about the power of the reform, and the uprisings of the "people" that he wrote and preached from the scriptures that people were in their rightful place, according to scripture and the peasants must be submissive to their lords and masters..........a straight line to "slaves, stay in your place and be submissive to your masters."
But, i'm too far ahead of the discussion, we can come back to that.   

Emily

  • Posts: 365
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1598 on: January 15, 2012, 11:22:37 PM »
So what was happening in the rest of Europe while Italy was in the renaissance, the 'hundred years' war' for one thing. The two main protaginists were France and England, but it has been so long since I studied this event that I forgot how the other parts of Europe took sides. I looked it up and below is a short excerpt......

Quote
Date 1337–1453
Location Primarily France and the Low Countries
Result French victory
House of Valois secure throne of France
Territorial
changes England lose all continental territory except for the Pale of Calais
 
Belligerents
 House of Valois

Supported by:

 France
 Scotland
 Wales
 Castile
 Genoa
 Majorca
 Bohemia
 Crown of Aragon

 Brittany (Blois)  House of Plantagenet

Supported by:
 England
 Burgundy
 Aquitaine
 Brittany (Montfort)
 Portugal
 Navarre
 Flanders
 Hainaut
 Luxembourg
 
The Hundred Years' War was a series of separate engagements marked by various truces, waged from 1337 to 1453 between the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of France and their various allies for control of the French throne, which had become vacant upon the extinction of the senior Capetian line of French kings. The House of Valois controlled France in the wake of the House of Capet; a Capetian cadet branch, the Valois claimed the throne under Salic Law. This was contested by the House of Plantagenet, the Angevin family that had ruled England since 1154, who claimed the throne of France through the marriage of Edward II of England and Isabella of France.

The war was in fact a series of individual "wars", commonly divided into three or four phases: the Edwardian War (1337–1360), the Caroline War (1369–1389), the Lancastrian War (1415–1429), and the slow decline of Plantagenet fortunes after the appearance of Joan of Arc (1412–1431). Several other contemporary European conflicts were directly related to this conflict: the Breton War of Succession, the Castilian Civil War, the War of the Two Peters, and the 1383-1385 Crisis. The term "Hundred Years' War" was a later term invented by historians to describe the series of events.

The conflict was punctuated by several periods of peace, before the French succeeded in recovering early gains made by the English, expelling them from the majority of France by the 1450s. The Plantagenets lost most of their continental territory, including Gascony, which they had held since the twelfth century, though they retained the Pale of Calais. The ruling houses of England would continue to claim the French throne until 1800. However, the war nearly fiscally ruined France, while the English enriched themselves with plunder. France suffered greatly from the war, since most of the conflict occurred in that country.

The war owes its historical significance to a number of factors. Though primarily a dynastic conflict, the war gave impetus to ideas of both French and English nationalism. Militarily, it saw the introduction of new weapons and tactics, which eroded the older system of feudal armies dominated by heavy cavalry in Western Europe. The first standing armies in Western Europe since the time of the Western Roman Empire were introduced for the war, thus changing the role of the peasantry.

For all this, as well as for its long duration, it is often viewed as one of the most significant conflicts in the history of medieval warfare. In France, civil wars, deadly epidemics, famines and marauding mercenary armies turned to banditry reduced the population by about one-half.

France won the war but lost half its population, so it was a loser too.

Emily

bookad

  • Posts: 284
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #1599 on: January 16, 2012, 01:58:50 AM »
Emily: what a synopsis, I have only read about the 100 year
war in High School history, ....and it was maybe a paragraph
with the years and few facts....

all our English history was wars, dates, couple of sentences
linage of kings/queens...when one can route out further info
other than dates it becomes alive...unless maybe now I am
past school learning where I can get further into something like
the Durant's teachings everything gets interesting

interesting to learn England had control of some of today's French territory; would have thought at the dates stated that the French were more
a grouping of isolated ??countries within what is France today still dualing
for control of territories among other settlements of people

quite interesting

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.