Author Topic: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant  (Read 371885 times)

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2120 on: January 07, 2014, 01:14:09 AM »

"I want to know what were the steps by which
man passed from barbarism to civilization (Voltaire)"

   



What are our origins?
Where are we now?
Where are we headed?
Share your thoughts with us!
   Volume Five (The Renaissance)
       
"Four elements constitute Civilization -- economic provision, political organization, moral traditions, and the pursuit of knowledge and the arts. "
 
"I shall proceed as rapidly as time and circumstances will permit, hoping that a few of my contemporaries will care to grow old with me while learning. "
       
"These volumes may help some of our children to understand and enjoy the infinite riches of their inheritance."
       
"Civilization begins where chaos and insecurity ends."






This volume, then, is about YOU. Join our group daily and listen to what Durant and the rest of us are saying. Better yet, share with us your opinions.
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SeniorLearn Contact: JoanK & Discussion Facilitator: Trevor
 


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DURANTS'  STory of Civilization
Vol VI  The  REFORMATION




Ah, Joan beat me to it, i was going to mention the BBC Bach documentary in here. It may seem strange to mention during "the reformation" since Bach is 200 yrs later, but they talk about Luther's influence on Bach.

(my response to comments in "Classical music" in Seniors and Friends): I was doing more listening then watching the first time i played the Bach because i was fixing dinner. I watched it closely later and it is so beautiful. Obviously the music itself, the voice and instrumental performances, but then there were those beautiful pipe organs in those equally beautiful churches. Some producer was clairvoyant enough to say let's shoot this in winter-time Germany!!! Everything covered with snow, i just loved it.

I showed my husband the part where they talked about Bach reversing the music (turning the page upside down) and playing one measure ahead, we got a good laugh about that and that it took anyone 100 yrs to realize what he had done. We also enjoyed the continuing .discussion of his being obessed with numbers and the science of that and then i loved his putting B, A, C, H notes in many pieces. However i don't understand the "H" in the German scale, can someone explain it to me?

Joan mentioned in The Story of Civilization site in Seniorlearn the influence Martin Luther had on his music. That was interesting to me also.


Jean

Brian

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2121 on: January 07, 2014, 03:26:09 AM »
Quote
putting B, A, C, H notes in many pieces
from Mabel on Jan 6th 2014.

 If I understand correctly in the German scale B natural is referred to as H and B flat is referred to as B.
 I found this very clear explanation in a forum. It seems that in Germany the notes B and Bb were referred to as hard and soft B. The "hard" B is where the letter H comes from.

Now,  I will have to admit that I am not a Bach fan.   I love Beethoven,  Mozart,  Mahler and Bruckner.
I enjoy most or all the Northern European composers,  but there is little that I enjoy among the works
of Bach - his music strikes me as repetitive and boring.   Many pieces seem to have been written to
impress the purists and mathmaticians.

Brian

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2122 on: January 08, 2014, 05:14:37 PM »
" If I understand correctly in the German scale B natural is referred to as H and B flat is referred to as B."

That is the way they explained it in the piece.

Maybe it's because I'm a math nerd that I like Bach. The BBC piece we mentioned played mainly his choral works, which you might like better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiQbppQq54E&app=desktop&noredirect=1

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2123 on: January 08, 2014, 08:35:24 PM »
I understood what they said in the program about the "H", but i was wondering how that happened - is the German scale A, Bflat, H, Cflat, C, Dflat, D etc?

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2124 on: January 08, 2014, 09:13:59 PM »
                                             MICHAEL SERVETUS  1511-1553.

Miguel Serveto was born at Villanova ( some sixty miles north of Saragossa ), son of a notary of good family. He grew up at a time when the writings of Erasmus were enjoying a transitory tolerance in Spain. He was in some measure influenced by the literature of the Jews and the Moslems; he read the Koran, made his way through rabbinical commentaries, and was impressed by the Semitic criticism of Christianity ( with its prayers to a Trinity, to Mary, and to saints.) as polytheistic. Luther called him “the Moor." Michael discovered Protestantism, and liked it; he visited Oecolampadius at Basel, and Capito and Bucer at Strasbourg; soon he was too heretical for their taste, and was invited to graze in other fields.

In 1531 and 1532 he published the first and second edition of his basic work, “De Trinitatis Erroribus.” It was rather confused and in a crude Latin that must have made Calvin smile if ever; but in a wealth of Biblical erudition for a lad of twenty. Jesus, in Servetus’ view, was a man into whom God the Father had breathed the Logos, the Divine Wisdom, in this sense Jesus  became the Son of God; but he was not equal or co-eternal with the Father, Who might communicate the same spirit of wisdom to other men. The Son was sent from the Father in no other way than as one of the prophets. This was pretty close to Mohammed’s conception of Christ. “All those who believe in a Trinity in the essence of God are tritheists.” and he added, they are “true atheists” as deniers of the “One God.” This was youthfully extreme, but Servetus tried to soften his heresy by indicting rhapsodies on Christ as the Light of the World; most of his readers however, felt that he had extinguished the light. As if to leave no stone unhurled, he concurred with Anabaptists that baptism should be given only to adults. Oecolampadius and Bucer repudiated him, and Servetus, reversing Calvin’s itinerary, fled from Switzerland to France.(1532).

On July 17 the Inquisition at Toulouse issued a warrant for his arrest. He thought of going to America, but found Paris more agreeable. There, disguising himself as Michel de Villeneuve ( the family name ) he studied mathematics, geography, astronomy, and medicine, and flirted with astrology. The great Vesalius was his fellow student in dissection and their teachers praised them equally. Out of so many scholars available he was chosen to edit a Latin translation of the Bible, by Santes Pagnini. The work took him three years. In a note on Isaiah 7 : 14 which Jerome had rendered “ a virgin shall conceive” Servetus explained that the Hebrew word meant not virgin but young woman, and he suggested that it referred not prophetically to Mary but simply to Hezekiah’s wife. In the same spirit he indicated that other seemingly prophetic passages in the Old Testament referred only to contemporary figures or events. This proved disconcerting to Protestants and Catholics alike.

We do not know when Servetus discovered the pulmonary circulation of the blood -- the passage of the blood from the right chamber of the heart along the pulmonary artery to and from the lungs, its purification there by aeration, and its return via the pulmonary vein to the left chamber of the heart. So far as is now known, he did not publish his finding till 1553, when he included it in his final work. Deferring for a while the problem of Servetus’s priority in this discovery, we note that he had apparently completed the “Christianismi restituto” by 1546 for in that year he sent the manuscript to Calvin.
The very title was a challenge to the man who had written the “Christianae religionis instituitio”; but further the book sharply rejected, as blasphemy, the notion that God had predestined souls to hell regardless of their merits or guilt. God, said Servetus, condemns no one who has not condemned himself. Faith is good, but love is better, and God himself, is love. Calvin thought it sufficient refutation of all this to send Servetus a copy of the  ‘Institutes’ Servetus returned it with insulting annotations, and followed up with series of letters so contemptuous that Calvin wrote to Farel, “Servetus has just sent a long volume of his ravings. If I consent he will come here, but I will not give my word, for should he come, if my authority is of any avail, I will not suffer him to get out alive.”

Angry at Calvin’s refusal to continue the correspondence wrote to Abel Poupin, one of the Genevese ministers :
“Your Gospel is without God, without true faith, without good works. Instead of a God you have a three-headed Cerberus [ the predestinating Trinity?] For faith you have a deterministic dream..... Man is with you an inert trunk, and God is a chimera of enslaved will.. I shall not warn you again. In this fight of Michael I know that I shall certainly die... but I do not falter.. ..Christ will come...... He will not tarry.”

Obviously Servetus was a bit more insane than the average of his time. He announced that the end of the world was at hand; that the Archangel Michael would lead a holy war against both the papal and the Genevese Antichrists.

On April 4 Servetus was arrested. Three days later he escaped by leaping over a garden wall. On June 17 the civil court of Vienne condemned him, if found, to be burned alive by slow fire. Servetus wondered about France for three months.  He decided to seek refuge in Naples, and to go there via Geneva. He went to church there, was recognised and arrested again. He was confined in the former Episcopal palace, now a prison, to await trial. On August 17 and 21 Calvin appeared in person as the accuser. Claim and counter claim were presented to the court which deliberated until October 26, and with no member dissenting, passed sentence of death. Servetus, after his appeal to Calvin for mercy was rejected, asked to be beheaded rather than burned. Calvin was inclined to support this plea, but the aged Farel, in at the death, reproved him for such tolerance; and the Council voted that Servetus should be burned alive.

The sentence was carried out the next morning Oct 27 1553. on the hill of Champel, just south of Geneva. Servetus claimed “I am not guilty, I have not merited death“; and he besought God to pardon his accusers.  He was fastened to a stake by iron chains, and his last book was bound to his side. After half an hour of burning he died.*

* In 1903 a monument was raised to Servetus at Champel. First on the list of contributors to the cost was the Consistory of the Reformed Church of Geneva.

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2125 on: January 08, 2014, 09:31:46 PM »
Heading for above piece should be

DURANTS'  S  o  C
Vol VI  The  REFORMATION
Pgs  479-484

(Sorry about that) Trevor

Brian

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2126 on: January 09, 2014, 02:10:43 AM »
Mabel and Joank - - -  The "H" in the German scale is derived
from the German word "Hart" which translates into the English word
"Hard",  or,  as we call it "Natural".

More,  I cannot give you.   Ain't life funny !

I don't care for many of Bach's choral works either,  and the word
I was looking for was "Mathematician" -  Not the way I misspelled it.

Tomorrow I will try to get "back" to discussing the results of Trevor's
"hard" work,  for which I am truly grateful.

Brian

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2127 on: January 09, 2014, 12:03:38 PM »
Unbelievable! The arrogance of mankind. "I am right, you are wrong and if you don't agree with me i have the power to kill you in the most tortuous way i can think of." And so it goes, and so it goes, even in the name if religion - or perhaps most especially in the name of religion, for if i say "that's what i know is true, god told me" what else can be discussed?

Thank you Brian for that explanation, i love learning about word origins.

Jean

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2128 on: January 09, 2014, 03:54:54 PM »
Durant makes us chuckle again: "Obviously Servetus was a bit more insane than the average of his time." Sounds like he's right.

I also liked the Bach BBC program because it shows the effect of the religious divisions on one man. Working for churches, Bach is constantly in the middle of arguments with the church officials, but not, it seems, over the grand issues we talk about here, but over petty rivalries, such as occur today. Although a passionate Lutheran, at one point, fed up with his job, he hears of an opening in a catholic church and writes a Catholic mass, hoping to get the job. The catholic churches have the better musicians. When he doesn't land the job, he writes secular music in coffeehouses.

All very far from the big issues of faith that Durant discusses, but very human.

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2129 on: January 15, 2014, 03:44:51 PM »
DURANTS'   S  o  C
Vol.VI   THE REFORMATION
Pgs. 484 - 488



                                                AN APPEAL FOR TOLERATION
Catholics and Protestants united in approving the sentence given to Servetus. The Inquisition, cheated of its living prey, burned him in effigy. Melanchthon, in a letter to Calvin,” gave thanks to the Son of  God ” for the “ punishment of this blasphemous man.”  Yet even in Calvin’s day some voices spoke for  Servetus.  An  Anabaptist, published a protest against the execution, but under a pseudonymn;  after his death his authorship was discovered; his body was exhumed and publicly burned (1566)
The political opponents of Calvin naturally condemned his treatment of Servetus. Such criticism must have been widespread, for in February 1554 Calvin issued a ‘Defenso orthodoxies Fidei de sacra Trinitrate contra prodigiosus errors Michaelis Servitia. ”If,” he argued,” we believe in the inspiration of the Bible, then we know the truth, and all who oppose it are enemies and blasphemers of God. Since their  offense  is immeasurably greater than any other crime, the civil authority must punish the heretics as worse than murderers; for murder merely kills the body, while heresy accepted damns the soul to everlasting hell.”  ( This  was precisely the Catholic position.) Moreover, God Himself has explicitly instructed us to kill heretics, to smite with the sword any city that abandons the worship of the true faith revealed by Him. Calvin quoted the ferocious decrees of Deut. 13: 5-15, 17: 2-5; Exodus 22:20; and Lev. 24: 16 and argued from them with truly burning eloquence.
There is no question here of man’s authority; it is God who speaks, and it is clear what law He would have kept in the Church even to the end of the world. Wherefore does He  demand  of us so extreme severity if not to show us that due honour is not paid Him so long as we set not His service above every human consideration, so that we spare not kin nor blood of any, and forget all humanity when the matter is to combat for His glory?
What, meanwhile, had become of the  Erasmian  spirit  of tolerance? Erasmus had been tolerant because he had not been certain; Luther  and   Melanchthon  had abandoned tolerance as they progressed to certainty; Calvin, with lethal precocity, had been certain almost from his twentieth year. A few humanists  who studied classic thought, remained to suggest, diffidently, that certainty in religion and philosophy is unattainable, and that therefore theologians and philosophers should not kill.
The humanist who most clearly spoke for tolerance amid the clash of certainties had been for a time one of Calvin’s closest friends. Sebastian Castellio, became an adept in Latin, Greek, and Hebrew, taught Greek at Lyons,   lived with Calvin in Strasbourg. While he admired Calvin as a man, he abominated the doctrine of predestination, and fretted under the new discipline of body and mind. In 1544 he charged the Genevese ministers with intolerance, impurity, and drunkenness. Calvin complained to the Council;  Castellio  was found guilty of calumny, and was banished. For nine years he lived in great poverty, supporting a large family, and working at night on his version of the Scriptures. He finished this in (1551); then lonesome for the placid drudgery of scholarship, he began again at Genesis 1;1 and translated the Bible into French. He sympathized with the Unitarians, longed to help Servetus, and was shocked by Calvin’s defence of execution. Under assumed names he and Caelius  Curio published the first modern classic on toleration.
The main body of the work was an anthology, compiled by Curio, of Christian pleas for tolerance, from Lactantius and Jerome to Erasmus, the early Luther, and Calvin himself.  For hundreds of years, he pointed out, men had debated free will, predestination, heaven and hell, Christ and the Trinity, and other difficult matters; no agreement had been reached; probably none would ever be reached. But  none  is necessary  said  Castellio;  such disputes do not make men better; all we need is to carry  the spirit of Christ into our daily lives, to feed the poor, help the sick, and love even our enemies. Can we imagine Christ ordering a man to be burned alive for advocating  adult  baptism? The Mosaic laws calling for the death of a heretic were superseded by the law of Christ, which is one of mercy, not of despotism and terror. What a tragedy (he concluded) that those who so lately freed themselves from the terrible Inquisition should so soon imitate its tyranny, should so soon force men back into Cimmerian darkness after so promising a dawn!
Knowing  Castellio’s  sentiments, Calvin at once recognized his hand in the work. He deligated the task of answering it to his most brilliant disciple, Theodore de Besze. Theodore studied law at Orleans and Bourges, practiced it successfully in Paris, wrote Latin poetry, charmed some women by his wit, more by his prosperity, lived a gay life, married, fell dangerously ill, experienced a sickbed conversion reverse to Loyola’s, adopted Protestantism, fled to Geneva, presented himself to Calvin, and was made professor of Greek at the University of Lausanne. It is remarkable that a protestant refugee from a Huguenot-persecuting France should have undertaken to defend persecution. He did it with the skill of a lawyer and the devotion of a friend. He pointed out again that religious toleration was impossible to one who accepted the divine inspiration of the Scriptures. To a sincere believer in the Bible there could be only one religion; all others must be false or incomplete. Yes, the new Testament preaches a law of love, but this does not excuse us from punishing thieves and murderers; how then does it warrant us in sparing heretics?  Castellio returned to the contest in a manuscript anticipating Descartes by making  the  art of doubting  a first step in the pursuit of truth. He defended free will and the possibility of universal  salvation . In1562, he appealed in vain to Catholics and Protestants to end the civil wars that were devastating France, and to allow every believer in Christ “to serve God according not to other men’s faith but to his own.” Hardly anyone heard a voice so out of tune with the time. Castellio died in poverty at the age of forty-eight (1563). Calvin pronounced his early death a just judgment of a just God.
Amid these battles for the Lord, Calvin continued to live simply, and to rule Geneva by the power of personality armed with the delusions of his followers. His position became stronger as the years gave it roots. His only weakness was physical; headaches, asthma, dyspepsia, stone, gout, and fever racked and thinned his frame. He now had to keep to his bed most of the time. On April 25, 1564, he made his will, full of confidence in his election to everlasting glory. Many flocked to his bedside, and after many days of prayer and suffering Calvin found peace ( May  27, 1564 ).


3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2130 on: January 15, 2014, 03:48:20 PM »
I have a new computer. having some trouble getting it to do what I want!  Trevor

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2131 on: January 16, 2014, 03:45:11 PM »
I know the feeling!

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2132 on: January 20, 2014, 05:52:47 PM »
DURANTS’  S  O  C
Vol  VI  THE REFORMATION 
Pgs.  488 – 490

                                                  CALVIN’S  INFLUENCE
 
His influence was even greater than Luther’s, but he walked in a path that Luther had cleared. Luther had protected his new church by rallying German nationalism to its support; the move was necessary, but it tied Lutherism too narrowly to Teutonic  stocks. Calvin loved France, and laboured to promote the Huguenot cause, but he was no nationalist; religion was his country; and so his doctrine, however modified, inspired the Protestantism of Switzerland, France, Scotland, and America, and captured large sectors of Protestantism in Hungary, Poland, Germany, Holland, and England. Calvin gave to Protestantism in many lands an organization, confidence, and pride that enabled it to survive a thousand trials.
But year by year the business leaders who controlled the Councils resisted more and more successfully the attempts of the Consistory and the Venerable Company to place moral checks upon economic operations. After 1608 the merchant princes consolidated their supremacy, and the Genevan  Church lost the directive privileges that Calvin had won for it in non religious affairs. In the eighteenth century the influence of Voltaire moderated the Calvinist tradition, and ended the sway of a puritan ethic among the people. Catholicism patiently struggled to recapture a place in the city; it offered a Christianity without gloom and an ethic without severity; in 1954 the population was 42% Catholic, 47% Protestant.
Meanwhile the hard theocracy of Calvin was sprouting democratic buds. The efforts of the Calvinist  leaders to give schooling to all, and their inculcation of disciplined character, helped the sturdy burghers of Holland to oust the alien dictatorship of Spain, and supported the revolt of nobles and clergy in Scotland against a fascinating but imperious queen. The stoicism of a hard creed made the strong souls of the Scottish Covenanters, the English and Dutch Puritans, the Pilgrims of New England. It steadied the heart of Cromwell, guided the pen of blind Milton, and broke the power of the backward facing Stuarts. It encouraged brave and ruthless men to win a continent and spread the base of education and self-government until all men could be free. Men who chose their own pastors soon claimed to choose their governors, and the self-ruled congregation soon became the self-governed municipality.  The myth of divine election justified itself in the making of America.
When this function had been performed, the theory of predestination fell into the backwaters of Protestant belief. A social order returned in Europe after the Thirty Year’s War, in England after the revolutions of 1642 and1689, in America after 1793. The pride of divine election changed into the pride of work and accomplishment; men felt stronger and more secure; fear lessened and the frightened cruelty that had generated Calvin’s God gave way to a more humane vision that compelled reconception of deity. Decade by decade the churches that had taken their lead from  Calvin discarded the harsher elements of his creed. Theologians dared to believe that all who died in infancy were saved, and one respected divine announced, without causing a commotion, that the number of the finally lost.... will be very inconsiderable. We are grateful to be so reassured, and we will agree that even error lives because it serves some vital creed. But we shall always find it hard to love the man who darkened the human soul with the most absurd and blasphemous conception of God in all the long and honoured history of nonsense.


Brian

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2133 on: January 20, 2014, 06:11:53 PM »
Quote
We are grateful to be so reassured, and we will agree that even error lives because it serves some vital creed. But we shall always find it hard to love the man who darkened the human soul with the most absurd and blasphemous conception of God in all the long and honoured history of nonsense.

So much for Calvin and Luther !

It's been a long journey through the religious turmoil,  and the Durants have
not lost their sense of humour in telling us about it.

We are not finished with the effects of religion on history though - will we ever be?

Brian

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2134 on: January 20, 2014, 07:40:30 PM »
No!

"Men who chose their own pastors soon claimed to choose their governors, and the self-ruled congregation soon became the self-governed municipality.  The myth of divine election justified itself in the making of America.
When this function had been performed, the theory of predestination fell into the backwaters of Protestant belief."

So it was Calvin who led to the formation of the ideals of the US?

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2135 on: January 22, 2014, 06:31:15 PM »
Well, those last two paragraphs give me a whole new respect for my ancestors. As i've mentioned before, 4 Chambers brothers arrived in the colonies in the mid 1700s and three of them started three Presbyterian churches in south central Pa. As i've studied bits and pieces of Calvin through my life i've itched to talk to them to find out why they were so strongly approving of that theology.

I understood where my stoicism came from, but didn't get the connection to democracy. I love that. From another branch of my maternal ancestry came the Scottish Morrows. I don't know what year they arrived in the country, but i'd like to think that the Chambers and the Morrows stood on the democracy side of the theology rather then the predestination side. Some powerful force motivated them to cross the Atlantic, i'd like to think it was individual liberty and freedom and independence. :)

Perhaps they also sent me the gene that has led me to love the colonial and federalist periods of American History.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2136 on: January 23, 2014, 03:34:28 PM »
The era that interests me is after the revolution, when our founding fathers were struggling with questions of how to structure this new country. I think everyone should study it, to understand how our government is constructed, and what kind of issues they (and we) face.

And also understand how power can supersede ideals. Jefferson with his high ideals and dirty electioneering and slave holding; Adams with his understanding of the balance of power and his Alien and Sedition act, making him all powerful.

I think the most important thing I've learned by following this discussion for years is the extent to which power corrupts.

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2137 on: January 23, 2014, 04:15:10 PM »
Durant seems to think that it was adherence  to the Protestant  Christian religion that enabled the settlers to establish their rule over what was to become the US. It takes only a glance at a map  to see that those who followed the Catholic religion conquered  an even larger section of the Americas. Does this mean that Catholism is the better religion?

It is clear that religion played a negligible part in the conquests. It was of course greater fire power that enabled the European conquests, nothing more. In any case the original Asiatic settlers  who moved across the Bering straights and settled, were the real conquerors of the entire continent. Christianity, or the lack of it, played no real part in any of this.

In my case, the conquest of New Zealand, did have some religious elements. The missionaries had some influence, in that they largely wrote the treaty of Waitangi, which  cajoled the  Maoris to grant sovereignty to the Europeans.  When, several years later, the Maoris realized what they had done, and  sought to re-establish their ownership of the country by resort to arms, the ready availability of guns and artillery to the European invaders ensured that the Maori efforts ended in defeat.

 I feel that the Durants’ enthusiasm for religion is not really tenable.   Trevor.



mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2138 on: January 24, 2014, 01:20:11 PM »
It encouraged brave and ruthless men to win a continent and spread the base of education and self-government until all men could be free. Men who chose their own pastors soon claimed to choose their governors, and the self-ruled congregation soon became the self-governed municipality.  The myth of divine election justified itself in the making of America.

Trevor - the Durants do seem to aggrandize the role of Calvinism, "win a continent" is a gross exaggeration if they are speaking of the actual work of Protestants, but in terms of believing in the concepts of public education, self-determination, independence, democracy and no divine rights, those became the pillars of the United States' ideals. Whether they ALL stemed from Protestantism is debatable.

Religion was used as the excuse by many for conquering the continent, by both Catholics and Protestants, although it doesn't hold up in reality.
♪♫♪•*¨•.¸¸♪♫ ¸¸.•*¨*•♫♪ money, money, money ♪♫♪•*¨•.¸¸♪♫ ¸¸.•*¨does appear to be the engine driving the train of much of history, along with power, of course.
Jean

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2139 on: January 24, 2014, 03:50:36 PM »
Jean: As a fellow sociologist, you know that money, power, and ideas are the three factors that sociologists see driving people, with endless arguments at to which comes first.. As they tend to belong to the same people, it's hard to separate them. (Those who have money, get power and control ideas. Those who control ideas, get power and money follows, etc. etc.)

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2140 on: January 29, 2014, 11:44:23 AM »
Yes Joan, i do. I was just musing after having read the latest posting by Trevor.

Something you al might want to play around with:

From this morning's Open Culture newsletter.......as schools and colleges moved to be multicultural in the 80s and 90s, some moved away from Western literature. Howard Bloom wrote a book suggesting a "Western Canon" many of which are available for free online. Here's the article and the list along with some audio of Bloom discussing the battle. I wish i could find an interesting MOOC - college class - that discussed them for  me, i'll have to look.

http://www.openculture.com/2014/01/harold-bloom-creates-a-massive-list-of-works-in-the-western-canon.html

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2141 on: January 30, 2014, 08:34:15 PM »
Durants'  S  o  C
Vol. VI  The  REFORMATION
pgs. 491  -  496


                                     Francis 1 and the Reformation in France.
                                                               1515 - 1559

He was born under a tree in Cognac on September 12, 1494. His grandfather was Charles of Orleans, the poet; perhaps song and the love of beauty were in his blood. His father was Charles of Valois and Orleans, count of Angouleme, who died, after many adulteries in the third year of Francis’ life. His mother was Louise of Savoy, a woman of beauty, ability, and ambition, with a taste for wealth and power. Widowed at seventeen, she refused the hand of Henry VII of England, and devoted herself -- barring some liaisons -- to making her son king of France. She did not mourn when Anne of Brittany, second wife of Louis XII, had a stillborn son, leaving Francis heir to the throne. Louis sadly made Francis Duke of Valois, and appointed tutors to instruct him in the art of royalty. Louise and his sister Marguerite mothered him to idolatry, and prepared him to be a ladies’ king. He was handsome, gay, courteous, brave; he met dangers like a Roland or an Amadis; when a wild boar, escaping from its cage, sought to frolic in his princely court, it was Francis who, while others fled, faced the beast and slew it splendidly.

At the age of twelve (1506) he was betrothed to Claude of France, the seven year old daughter of Louis XII. At fourteen Francis was bidden leave his mother and join Louis at Chinon.  At twenty he married Claude. She was stout and dull, lame and fertile and good; she gave him children in 1515, 1516, 1518, 1520, 1522, 1523, and died in 1524. Meanwhile he became King. (Jan.1 1515). Everybody was happy, above all his mother, to whom he gave the Duchies of Angouleme and Anjou, the Barony of Amboise,. But he was generous to others too. -- to nobles artists, poets, pages, mistresses. France rejoiced, and placed high hopes in him, as England in those years in Henry VIII, and the Empire in Charles V; and Francis, even more than Leo X, was resolved to enjoy his throne..

What was he really, this Arthur plus Lancelot? Physically he would have been magnificent, had not his nose  been more so; irreverent contemporaries called him “ le roi grand nez.” He was six feet tall, broad shouldered, agile, strong, he could run, jump, wrestle, fence with the best; he could wield a two-handed sword or a heavy lance. Brantome, whose ‘Dames Galantes’ cannot be taken as history, wrote therein that “King Francis loved greatly and too much; for being young and free, he embraced now  one, now another, with indifference... from which he took the “grande verole “ that shortened his days. The king’s  mother was reported to have said  “He was punished where he had sinned.” His intellectual ability did not equal his charm of character. He had little Latin and no Greek, but he astonished many men by the variety and accuracy of his knowledge in agriculture, hunting, geography, military science, literature, and art; and he enjoyed philosophy when it did not interfere with love or war. He was too reckless and impetuous to be a great commander, too fascinated by appearances to get to essences, too amiably influenced by favourites and mistresses to chose the best available generals and ministers, too open and frank to be a competent diplomat. Louis XII, who admired him as “ a fine young gallant,” saw with foreboding the lavish hedonism of his successor. “All our work is useless,” he said; “this great boy will spoil everything.”

France was now enjoying the prosperity engendered by a bountiful soil, a skilful and thrifty people, and a beneficent reign. The population was some 16,000,000, compared with 3,000,000 in England and 7,000,000 in Spain. Paris, with 300,000 was the largest city in Europe. The social structure was semi-feudal: nearly all the peasants owned the land they tilled, but usually they held it in fief-- and owed dues or services -- to seigneurs and chevalies whose function was to organise agriculture and provide  military protection to their locality and nation. Inflation, caused by the repeated debasement of coinages and the mining or import of precious  metals, eased the traditional money dues, and enabled peasants to buy land cheaply from the land rich, money poor nobility; hence a rural prosperity that kept the Frenchy peasant happy and Catholic while the German Bauer was making economic and religious revolution. French energy drew from the soil the best corn and wine in Europe; cattle grew fat and multiplied; milk, butter and cheese were on every table; chickens and other fowl were in almost every yard; and the peasant accepted the odour of his pigsty as one of the blessed fragrances of life.

The town worker -- still chiefly a craftsman in his shop -- did not share in this prosperity. Inflation raised prices faster than wages, and protective tariffs and royal monopolies, as of salt, helped to keep the cost of living high. Discontented workers went on strike, but were nearly always defeated; and the law forbade workingmen to unite for economic purposes. Commerce moved leisurely along the bountiful rivers, but painfully along the poor roads, paying each lord a toll to pass through his domain. Lyons, where the trade of the Mediterranean ascending the Rhone, met the flow of goods from Switzerland and Germany, was second only to Paris in French industry and only to Antwerp as a centre of investment and finance.

From this economy Francis drew revenues to the limit of tolerance. The taille (cut) fell as a personal or property tax upon all but nobles and clergy; the clergy paid the king ecclesiastical tithes and grants, the nobles supplied and equipped the cavalry that was still the flamboyant mainstay of French arms. Taking a lesson from the popes, Francis sold -- and created to sell -- noble titles and political offices; in this way the nouveaux riches slowly formed (as in England ) a new aristocracy, and the lawyers, buying offices, established a powerful bureaucracy that -- sometimes over the head of the king -- administered the government of France.

The function of the nobles was twofold: to organize the army, and to serve the king at court. The court, consisting of the administrative heads, the leading nobles, their wives, and the family and favourites of the king, now became the head and front of France, the mirror of fashion, the mobile perpetual festival of royalty. At the summit of this whirl was the master of the King’s household, who organized the whole  and patrolled the protocol; then the Chamberlain, who had charge of the royal bedchamber; then four Gentlemen of the Bedchamber or First lords in waiting, who were always at the King’s elbow to wait upon his desires; these men were changed every three months, to give other nobles a turn at this exhilarating intimacy; lest anyone be overlooked there were twenty to fifty-four Lords of the Bedchamber to serve the highest four; add twelve Pages of the bedchambers, and four Ushers of the Bedchamber, and the King’s sleeping quarters were adequately cared for. Twenty  lords served as stewards of the King’s cuisine, managing a staff of forty-five men and twenty-five cupbearers. Some thirty ’enfants d’honneur’ -- boys of awesome pedigree -- functioned as royal pages, shining in silvered livery; and a host of secretaries multiplied the hand and memory of a King. A cardinal was Grand Chaplain of the royal chapel; a bishop was Master of the oratory or prayer service; and fifty diocesan bishops were allowed to grace the court and so augment their fame. Honorary positions as “grooms of the chamber” with pensions of 240 livres, were awarded for divers accomplishments, as to scholars like Bude and poets like Marot. We must not forget seven physicians, seven surgeons, four barbers, seven choristers, eight craftsmen, eight clerks of the kitchen, eight ushers for the audience chamber. Each of the King’s sons had his own attendants -- stewards, chancellors, tutors, pages, and servants. Each of the two Queens at court -- Claude and Marguerite --  had her retinue of fifteen or ten ladies in waiting, sixteen or eight maids of honour -- foilles demoiselles. All the potentates of Europe taxed their peoples to provide some minor mirroring of this Parisian fantasy.

The cost of all this perambulating glory was enormous. The treasury was always near bankruptcy, taxes were forever mounting, the bankers of Lyons were dragooned into risky royal loans. In 1523, perceiving that his expenditures were loosing sight of his revenues, the King promised to put a limit on his personal indulgences, “not including, however, the ordinary run of our little necessities and pleasures.” Now the government of France became bisexual. Francis ruled in apparent omnipotence, but he was so fond of women that he readily yielded to his mother, his sister, his mistress, even his wife. He must have loved Claude somewhat, to keep her so constantly pregnant. He had married her for reasons of state; he felt entitled to appreciate other women more artistically designed. The court followed the lead of the King in making a mannerly art of adultery. The clergy adjusted themselves after making the requisite objections. The people made no objections, but gratefully imitated the easy code of the court -- except one girl, who, we are told, deliberately marred her beauty to deflect the royal lechery.(1524).

The most influential woman at the court was the King’s mother. Very often her advice was good, and when she served as his regent the country fared better than at his own hands. But her covetousness drove the Duke of Bourbon to treason, and let a French army starve in Italy. Her son forgave her everything, grateful that she had made him a god.
                                                            

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2142 on: February 07, 2014, 03:44:40 PM »
Durants'  S  o  C
Vol. VI  THE REFORMATION
PGS. 497 - 501



                                     Marguerite of Navarre .

Francis probably loved his sister next to his mother, and above his mistresses -- whose ministrations gave him something less lasting and profound than her selfless adoration. Love was her life -- love of her mother, of her brother, of her husbands, Platonic love, mystical religious love. A pretty story said “she was born smiling, and held out  her little hand to each comer. By her birth she was Marguerite of Angoulême, Orlêans, and Valois. Two years older than Francis, she shared in bringing him up, and in their childhood games “she was his mother, his mistress, and his little wife.”  She watched over him as fondly as if he had been some saving divinity become man; and when she found that he was also a satyr she accepted that disposition as the right of a Greek god, though she herself seems to have taken no taint from her environment. She far outstripped Francis in studies, but she never equalled his connoisseur’s appreciation of art. She learned Spanish, Italian, Latin, Greek, and some Hebrew; she surrounded herself avidly with scholars, poets, theologians, and philosophers. Nevertheless she grew into an attractive woman, not physically beautiful ( she too had the long Valois nose), but exercising a strong fascination by her charms of character and intellect. She was sympathica, agreeable, generous, kind, with a frequent dash of sprightly humour. She herself was one of the best poets of the time, and her court at Nérac or Pau was the most brilliant literary centre in Europe. Everyone loved her and wished to be near her. That romantic but cynical age called her ‘la perle des Valoi -- for ‘margarita’ was Latin for pearl; and a pretty legend grew that Louise of Savoy had conceived her by swallowing a pearl.

The letters to her brother are among the fairest and tenderest in literature. There must have been much good in him to draw out such devotion. Her other loves flowed or ebbed, burned or cooled; this pure passion was constant through fifty years, and always intense. The breath of that love almost clears the air of that perfumed time.

Gaston de Foix, nephew of Louis XII, aroused her first romance, then went off to Italy to conquer and die at Ravenna ( 1512). Guillaume de Bonnivet fell deeply in love with her, but found her heart still full of Gaston; He married one of her ladies in waiting to be near to her. At seventeen (1509) she was wed to Charles, Duke of Alençon, also of royal pedigree; Francis had requested the marriage to cement an alliance of troublesomely rival families; but Marguerite found it hard to love the youth. Bonnivet offered her the consolations of adultery; she disfigured her face with a sharp stone to break the spell of her charm on him. Both Alençon and Bonnivet went to fight for Francis in Italy; Bonnivet died a hero at Pavia. Alençon was reported to have fled at the crisis of battle. He returned to Lyons to find himself universally scorned. Louise of Savoy berated him as a coward; he fell ill of pleurisy; Margurite forgave him and nursed him tenderly but he died (1525)

After two years of widowhood Marguerite, now thirty-five married Henri d’Albret, titular King of Navarre, a youth of twenty-four. He treated Marguerite, as a mother, almost as a mother-in-law; he did not imitate her fidelity to the marriage vows, and she had to console herself by playing hostess and protectress to writers, philosophers, and protestant refugees. In 1528 she bore Henri a daughter, Jeanne d’Albret. Two years later she gave birth to a son, who died in infancy; thereafter she wore nothing but black. Francis commanded her and Henri to surrender Jeanne to him to be brought up near the royal court. He feared that the girl would be reared as a Protestant. This separation was the profoundest of Marguerite’s many grief's before the death of the King, but it did not interrupt her devotion to him. It is sad but necessary to relate that when Francis bade Jeanne marry the Duke of Cleves, and Jeanne refused, Marguerite supported the King to the point of instructing Jeanne’s governess to thrash her till she consented. Several beatings were administered but plucky Jeanne -- a girl of twelve -- issued a signed document to the effect that if she were forced into the marriage she would hold it null. The wedding was arranged neverthe less, on the theory that the needs of the state were supreme law; Jeanne resisted to the last, and had to be carried into the church. As soon as the ceremony was over she fled, and went to live with her parents at Pau, where her extravagance in dress, retinue, and charities almost ruined them.

Marguerite herself was the embodiment of charity. She walked unescorted in the streets of Pau, allowed anyone to approach her, and heard at first hand the sorrows of the people. “No one ought to go away sad or disappointed from the presence of a Prince,” she said, “for Kings are the ministers of the poor... and the poor are the members of God.” She called herself the “Prime Minister of the Poor.” She visited them in their homes, and sent them physicians from her court. Henri co-operated fully in this, for he was as excellent a ruler as he was a negligent husband, and the public works directed by him served as a model to France. Together he and Marguerite financed the education of a large number of poor students, among them the Amyot who later translated Plutarch. Marguerite gave shelter and safety to Marot, Rebelias, Desperiers, Lefèvre d’Étaples, Calvin, and many others.

Aside from her charities three interests dominated her life at Nérac and Pau. Literature, Platonic love, and a mystic theology that found room for Catholicism and Protestantism alike, and tolerance even for free thought. She published in her lifetime several volumes of poetry and drama; they are not as fine as her letters, which were not printed until 1841. All the world knows of her ‘Heptameron’ because of its reputed indecency; but patrons of pornography will be disappointed in it. They are the tales related by the men and women of Marguerite’s court, or that of Francis. They appeared ten years after her death. She had intended them to form another ‘Decameron’, but as the book stopped short on the seventh day, the publisher called it ‘Heptameron’ Many of the narratives seem to be authentic histories, disguised with changed names. Brantôme tells us that his mother was one of the storytellers and that the fourth tale of the fifth day is an account of Bonnivet’s attempts upon Marguerite herself.

It must be admitted that the professed taste of our day would feel obliged to blush at these stories of seduction. Some of the incidental remarks are startling. “You mean to say, then, that all is lawful to those who love, provided no one knows?” “Yes in truth; tis only fools who are found out.” The general philosophy of the book finds expression in a pregnant sentence of the fifth story: “Unhappy the lady who does not carefully preserve the treasure which does her so much honour when well kept, and so much dishonour when she continues to keep it.” That Marguerite should have enjoyed or collected these tales points to the mood of the age, and cautions us not to picture her as a saint until her declining years. Apparently the men, and most of the women, thought of love between the sexes in unashamedly sexual terms. It was a custom of French women, in that light hearted reign, to make presents of their garters to imaginative men. It was good, Marguerite felt, that women should accept, in addition to the usual sexual passion, the devotion of men who were to be rewarded only with  a tender friendship and some harmless intimacies; this association would train aesthetic sensitivity in the male, refine his manners, and teach him moral  restraint; so woman would civilise man.. But in her philosophy there was a higher love than either the sexual or the Platonic-- love of goodness, beauty, or any perfection, and therefore, above all, the love of God. But to love God one must first love a human creature perfectly.

Her religion was as complex and confused as her conception of love. Just as the selfishness of her brother could not dim her devotion to him, so the tragedies and brutalities of life left her religious faith pure and fervent, however unorthodox. She had sceptical moments; in ‘Le miroir de l’âme pécheresse’ she confessed that at times  she had doubted both Scripture and God; she charged God with cruelty, and wondered had He really written the Bible. In 1533 the Sorbonne summoned her to answer an accusation of heresy; she ignored the summons; a monk told his congregation she deserved to be sewn in a sack and thrown in the Seine. But the King told the monks to leave his sister alone. She despised the religious orders as idling, wenching wastrels; reform, she felt, was long overdue. She read some Lutheran literature, and approved its attacks upon ecclesiastical immorality and greed. Francis was amazed to find her, once, praying with Farel -- the John the Baptist of Calvin. She spread her protective skirts over fugitive Protestants, including Calvin himself. She would gladly have composed the Edict of Nantes for her grandson. In Marguerite the Renaissance and the Reformation were for a moment one.

In the nineteenth century the protestant Michelet in that magnificent, interminable, unwearying rhapsody called Histoire de France, offered her his gratitude. “let us  always remember this tender Queen of Navarre, in  whose arms our people, fleeing from prison or pyre, found safety, honour, and friendship.. Our gratitude to you, lovable Mother of our Renaissance!”
 

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2143 on: February 07, 2014, 04:28:23 PM »
What an interesting character! "In Marguerite the Renaissance and the Reformation were for a moment one." Quite a feat.

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2144 on: February 19, 2014, 09:57:52 PM »
Durants'  S  o  C
Vol. V I  THE REFORMATION
Pgs. 501 - 504




                                  THE  FRENCH  PROTESTANTS.
No one questioned the need for religious reform The same ecclesiastical good and evil appeared here as elsewhere: faithful priests, devout monks, saintly nuns, here and there a bishop dedicated to religion rather than politics; and ignorant or lackadaisical priests, idle and lecherous monks, money grubbing friars pretending poverty, weak sisters in the convents, bishops who took the earthly cash and let the celestial credit go. As education rose, faith fell; and as the clergy had most of the education, they showed in their conduct that they no longer took to heart the once terrifying eschatology of their official creed. Monks denounced the worldliness of the bishops; priests denounced the monks. The first sentence in the ‘Heptameron’ describes the Bishop of Sees as itching to seduce a married woman; and a dozen stories in the book retail the similar enterprises of various monks.

The acquisitiveness of Louise, mother of Francis, the polygyny of her son, and the anarchic morals of the court, gave no inspiring example to the clergy, who were so largely subject to the King. In 1516 Francis secured from Leo X a Concordat empowering him to appoint the bishops and abbots of France; but since he used these appointments largely as rewards for political services, the worldly character of the prelacy was confirmed. The Concordat in effect made the Gallican Church independent of the papacy and dependent upon the state. In this way, Francis, a year before Luther’s Theses, achieved in fact, though graciously not in form, what the German princes and Henry VIII would win by war or revolution -- the nationalization of Christianity. What more could French Protestants offer the French King?

The first of them outdated Luther. In 1512 Jacques Lefèvre born at Etaples in Picardy but then teaching at the University of Paris, published a Latin translation of Paul’s Epistles, with a commentary expounding, among other heresies, that ten years later would be basic to Luther: that man can be saved not by good works but only by faith in the grace of God earned by redeeming sacrifice of Christ; and that Christ is present in the Eucharist by His own operation and good will , not through any priestly transubstantiation of bread and wine. Lefèvre, like Luther, demanded a return to the Gospel; and like Erasmus, he sought to restore and clarify the authentic text of the New Testament as a means of cleansing Christianity from medieval legends and sacerdotal accretions. In 1523 he issued a French translation of the Testament, and, a year later, of the Psalms. “How shameful it is,” said one of his comments, “to see a bishop soliciting people to drink with him, caring for naught but gambling... constantly hunting..... frequenting bad houses.” The Sorbonne condemned him as a heretic, he fled to Strasbourg. Marguerite interceded for him; Francis recalled him and made him royal librarian at Blois and tutor to his children, In 1531, when protestant excesses had angered the King, Lefévre took refuge with Marguerite in southern France, and lived there until his death at the age of eighty-seven (1527).

His pupil Guillaume Briçonnet, appointed Bishop of Meaux (1516) set himself to reform that diocese in the spirit of his master. After four years of zealous work he felt strong enough to venture upon theological innovations. He appointed to benefices such known reformers as Lefèvre, Farel, Louis de  Berquin, Gérard Roussel, and François Vatable, and encouraged them to preach a  return to the Gospel. Marguerite applauded him, and made him her spiritual director. But when the  Sorbonne -- the school of theology that now  dominated the University of Paris --- proclaimed its  condemnation of Luther (1521) Briçonnet bade his cohorts make  their  peace with the Church. The unity of the Church seemed to him, as to Erasmus and Marguerite, more important than reform. The Sorbonne could not stop the flow of Lutheran ideas across the Rhine. Students and merchants brought Luther’s writings from Germany as the most exciting news of the day. Discontented workingmen took up the New Testament as a revolutionary document, and listened gladly to preachers who drew from the Gospels a utopia of social equality. In 1523, when Bishop Briçonnet published on his cathedral doors a bull of indulgences, Jean Leclerc, a wool carder of Meaux, tore it down ,and replaced it with a placard calling the pope Antichrist. He was arrested and by order of the ’Parliament’ of Paris, was branded on the forehead. He  moved to Metz, where he smashed the religious images before which a procession was planning to offer  incense. His right hand was cut off, his nose was torn away, his nipples were clucked out with pincers, his head was bound with a band of red hot iron, and he was burned alive.( 1526)

The people of France generally approved of these executions, it cherished its religious faith in God’s own revelation and covenant, and abominated heretics as robbing the poor of their greatest consolation. No Luther appeared in France to rouse the middle class against papal tyranny and executions. Francis himself tolerated the Lutheran propaganda so long as it offered no threat of social or political unrest. He too had his doubts -- about the powers of the pope, the sale of indulgences, the existence of purgatory; and possibly he thought to use his toleration of Protestantism as a weapon over a pope too inclined to favour Charles V. He admired Erasmus, sought him for the Collège Royale, and believed with him in the encouragement of education and ecclesiastical reform  -- but by steps that would not divide the people into warring halves, or weaken the services of the Church to private morality and social order.

“The King and Madame” (Louise of Savoy), wrote Marguerite to Briçonnet in 1521, “are more than ever well-disposed toward the reformation of the Church.” When the Sorbonne arrested Louis de Berquin for translating some of Luther’s works he was freed by Marguerite’s intercession with the King. But Francis was frightened by the peasants’ Revolt in Germany, which seemed to him to have grown out of Protestant propaganda; and before leaving for his debacle at Pavia he bade the prelates stamp out the Lutheran movement in France. While the King was a captive in Madrid, Berquin was again imprisoned, but Marguerite again secured an order for his release. When Francis himself was freed he indulged in a jubilee of liberalism, perhaps in gratitude to the sister who had so laboured for his liberation. He recalled Lefèvre and Roussel from exile, and Marguerite felt the movement for reform had won the day. Two events drove the King back to orthodoxy. He needed money to ransome the two sons whom he had surrendered to Charles in exchange for his own freedom; the clergy voted him 1,300,000 livres, but accompanied the grant with a request for a firmer stand against against heresy; and he agreed ( 1727).

    

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2145 on: February 23, 2014, 04:00:43 PM »
"man can be saved not by good works but only by faith in the grace of God earned by redeeming sacrifice of Christ"

Still the question today!

"When Francis himself was freed he indulged in a jubilee of liberalism, ...Two events drove the King back to orthodoxy"

Religion and dictatorship -- a lethal combination!! People in the US who argue for the weakening of the separation of church and state should read history

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2146 on: February 24, 2014, 02:38:05 PM »
The difference between Will's earliest volumes and the later ones when Ariel got involved, or had more influence, is significant. No other male historian of his time includes as much information about women of the period being discussed as does Will Durant. Even Charles and Mary Beard's History of the United States does not and Mary Beard was a very important writer of women's history.

Do you think any other institution has created more violence then religion?

Jean

3kings(Trevor)

  • Posts: 347
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2147 on: March 01, 2014, 01:34:50 AM »
Durants'  S  o  C

Vol Vi The REFORMATION
Pgs. 504 - 506


The mood of the king varied with the shifts of his diplomacy.  In 1532, angry at the collaboration of Clement VII with Charles V, he made overtures to the Lutheran princes of Germany, and allowed Marguerite to install Roussel as preacher to large gatherings in the Louvre; and when the Sorbonne protested, he banished its leaders from Paris. In October 1532 he was on good terms with Clement, and promised active measures against the French Protestants. On  November 1 Nicholas Cop delivered his pro-Lutheran address at the university; the Sorbonne rose in wrath, and Francis ordered a new persecution. But then his quarrel with the Emperor sharpened and he sent Guillaume du Bellay, favourable to reform, to Wittemberg with a request that Melanchthon should formulate a possible reconciliation between the old faith and the new ideas (1534), and thereby make possible an alliance of Protestant Germany and Catholic France. Melanchthon complied, and matters were moving fast, when an extreme faction among the French reformers posted in the streets of Paris, Orleans, and other cities, and even on the doors of the King’s bedchamber at Amboise, placards denouncing the Mass as idolatry, and the Pope and the Catholic clergy as a “brood of vermin .... apostates, wolves .... liars, blasphemers, murderers of souls.”  

Enraged, Francis ordered an indiscriminate imprisonment of all suspects; soon the jails were full. Many printers were arrested and for a time all printing prohibited. Marguerite, Marot, and many moderate Protestants joined in condemning the placards. The King, his sons, ambassadors, nobles, and clergy marched in solemn silence, bearing lighted candles, to hear an expiatory  Mass in Notre Dame  (January 21, 1535). Francis declared that he would behead his own children, if he found them harbouring such blasphemous heresies. That evening six Protestants were burned to death in Paris, by a method judged fit to appease the Deity: they were suspended over a fire, and were repeatedly lowered into it and raised from it, so that their agony might be prolonged. Pope Paul III reproved the King for needless severity, and ordered him to end the persecution.

Before the year was out Francis was again wooing the German Protestants. He himself wrote to Melanchthon July 23, 1535, inviting him to come and “confer with some of our most distinguished doctors as to the means of re-establishing in the Church that sublime harmony which is the chief of all my desires.” Melanchthon did not come. Perhaps he suspected Francis of using him as a thorn in the Emperor’s side; or he was dissuaded by Luther or the Elector of Saxony, who said, “The French are not Evangelicals, they are Erasmians.” This was true of Marguerite and Briconnet, not true of the placardists, or of the Calvinistic Huguenots who were beginning to multiply in southern France.

The darkest disgrace of Francis’ reign was only partly his fault. The Vaudois or Waldenses, who still cherished the semi-Protestant ideas of Peter Waldo, their twelfth-century founder, had been allowed, under royal protection, to maintain their Quakerlike existence in some thirty villages along the Durance River in Provence. In 1530 they entered into correspondence with reformers in Germany and Switzerland, and two years later they drew up a profession of faith based on the views of Bucer and Oecolampadius. A papal legate set up the Inquisition among them. They appealed to Francis; he bade the prosecution cease (1533). But Cardinal de Tournon, alleging that the Waldenses were a treasonable conspiracy against the government, persuaded the ailing, vacillating King to sign a decree (January 1, 1545), that all Waldenses found guilty of heresy should be put to death. The Officers of the Parliament at Aix-en-Provence interpreted the order to mean mass execution. The soldiers at first refused to obey the command; they were, however, induced to kill a few; the heat of murder inflamed them, and they passed into massacre. Within a week (April 12-18) several villages were burned to the ground; in one of them 800 men, women, and children were slaughtered; in two months 3,000 were killed, twenty-two villages were razed, 700 men were sent to the galleys. Twenty-five terrified women seeking refuge in a cavern, were asphyxiated by a fire  built at its mouth. Protestant Switzerland and Germany raised horrified protests; Spain sent Francis congratulations. A year later a small Lutheran group was found meeting at Meaux under the leadership of Pierre Leclerc, brother of branded Jean; Fourteen of the group were tortured and burned, eight after having their tongues torn out (October 7, 1546 )

These persecutions were the supreme failure of Francis’ reign. The courage of the martyrs gave dignity and splendour to their cause; Thousands of onlookers must have been impressed and disturbed, who without these spectacular executions might never have bothered to change their inherited faith. Despite the recurrent terror, clandestine “swarms” of protestants existed in 1530 in Lyons, Bordeaux, Reims, Dijon and many more towns and cities. Huguenot legions sprang almost out of the ground. Francis, dying, must have known that he had left his son not only the encompassing hostility of England, Germany, and Switzerland, but a heritage of hate in France herself.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2148 on: March 02, 2014, 05:44:21 PM »
What a heritage of hate. it makes me cry just to think of it.

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2149 on: March 03, 2014, 03:24:17 PM »
Durants' S  o  C
Vol. VI  The REFORMATION
Pgs., 506 - 509

It was not to be expected that so volatile a monarch as Francis would be content to surrender all the hopes that had agitated his predecessors for adding Milan, and if possible Naples, as brilliants in the French crown. Louis XII had accepted the natural limits of France, but now Francis challenged the right of Duke Maximilian Sforza to Milan. During several months of negotiations Francis ceased to recognise the Alps as a natural boundary, and collected and equipped an immense force. In August 1515, he led it by a new and perilous path -- blasting his way across rocky cliffs-- over the Alps, and down into Italy. At Marignano, nine miles from Milan, the French met Duke Maximilian’s Swiss mercenaries in two days of such killing as Italy had not known since the barbarian invasions; 10,000 men left dead on the field. Francis entered Milan as its master, sent the deposed Duke Maximilian to France with a comfortable pension, and signed with Leo X , a treaty and Concordat that allowed both Pope and King to claim a diplomatic victory.

Francis returned to France the idol of his country men, and almost of Europe. In the intoxication of fame he made his greatest mistake: he entered his candidacy for the Imperial Crown. He was legitimately disturbed by the prospect of having Charles I, King of Spain and Naples and Count of Flanders and Holland, become also head of the Holy Roman Empire. Within such a new Empire France would be surrounded by apparently invincible enemies. Francis bribed and lost. Charles bribed more, and won. (1519) The bitter rivalry began that kept Western Europe in turmoil until within three years of  Francis’ death. Charles and Francis never ran out of reasons for hostility. Above many ‘casus belli’ lay the question of questions: Who was to be master of Europe -- Charles or Francis? The Turks answered, Suleiman.

Francis struck the first blow. Noting that Charles had on his hands a political revolution in Spain and a religious revolution in Germany, he sent an army across the Pyrenees to recapture Navarre; it was defeated. Another army went south to defend Milan; the troops mutinied for lack of pay; they were routed at La Bicocca by Imperial mercenaries, and Milan fell to Charles V (1522). To cap these mishaps the Constable of the French armies went over to the Emperor.

Charles Duke of Bourbon, was head of the powerful family that would rule France from 1589 to 1792. He was the richest man in the country after the King. He was the last of the great barons who could defy the monarch of the new centralized state. He served Francis well in war; less well in government, alienating the Milanese by his harsh rule. Ill supplied with funds from the King, he laid out 100,000 livres of his own, expecting to be repaid; he was not. Francis looked with jealous misgiving upon this most royal vassal. He recalled him from Milan, and offered him thoughtless or intentional affronts that left Bourbon his brooding enemy. The Duke had married Suzanne of Bourbon, whose extensive estates were by her mother’s will to revert to the crown if Suzanne should die without issue. Suzanne so died, but after making a will that left all her property to her husband. Francis and his mother claimed the property as the most direct descendants; Charles fought the claim. The ’ parlement’ of Paris decided against him. Francis proposed a compromise that would let the Duke enjoy the property until his death, and it would then revert to the crown. He rejected the offer, and others. Charles the V made a rival offer, the hand of his sister Elenora in marriage, and full support by imperial troops, of the Duke’s claims. The Duke accepted, fled at night across the frontier, and was made lieutenant-general of the Imperial Army in Italy (1523). Francis sent Marguerites lover, Bonnivet, against him. He proved incompetent; his forces were overwhelmed at Romagnano by the Duke, who then entered into an agreement with Charles V and Henry VIII by which all three were to invade France simultaneously, overwhelm all French forces and divide the land between themselves.

Francis thought it wise to pursue the Duke and recapture Milan. He was advised to take Pavia first, and then come upon Milan from the south; he agreed, and laid siege. But here too the defence was superior to the offence; for four months the French host was held at bay, while Bourbon, Charles of Lannoy ( Viceroy of Naples), and the Marquis of Pescara ( husband of Vittoria Colonna) gathered a new army of 27,000 men. Suddenly this force appeared behind the French; on the same day (February 24, 1525 ) Francis found his men assaulted on one side by this unexpected multitude, and on the other by a sortie from Pavia. As usual, he fought in the van of the melee, and killed so many of the enemy with his own sword that he thought victory assured. But his generalship was sacrificed to his courage; his forces were poorly deployed; his infantry moved in between his artillery and the foe, making the superior French guns useless. Francis challenged his disordered army to follow him back into battle; only the most gallant of his nobles accompanied him, and a slaughter of French chivalry ensued. His loyal knights fell one by one, till he was left alone. He was surrounded by enemy soldiers, and was about to be slain when an officer recognised him, saved him, and led him to Lannoy, who with low bows of respect accepted his sword.

The fallen King was confined in the fortress of Pizzighettone near Cremona.

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2150 on: March 03, 2014, 11:01:20 PM »
Quote
twenty-two villages were razed, 700 men were sent to the galleys.

The Raddanites of Venice took captives of war and used them as slaves chained to the oars in the bowels of their ships. War was the main means of creating slaves. They took the very young and killed the rest. There were no POW camps.

All the slaughter and for what.......another title.....none of which would survive them. So much megalomania, it boggles the mind.

Emma

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2151 on: March 05, 2014, 08:44:46 PM »
DURANTS'  S  o  C
Vol. VI  THE REFORMATION
Pgs. 509  -  512


The fallen King was confined in the fortress of Pizzighettone near Cremona, whence he was allowed to send his oft quoted, oft misquoted letter to his mother, who was ruling France in his absence:

To the regent of France: “Madame, that you may know how stands the rest of my misfortune: there is nothing in the world left to me but honour and my life, which is saved ( de toute chose ne m’est demeuré que l’honneur et la vie, qui est sauvée ). And in order that in your adversity this news might bring you some little comfort, I prayed for permission to write you this letter ... entreating you in the exercise of your accustomed prudence, to do nothing rash, for I have hope, after all, that God will not forsake me ....”

Charles received the news of his victory over Francis calmly, and refused to celebrate it, as many suggested, with a splendid festival. To Francis and Louise he sent what seemed to him moderate terms for peace, and the liberation of the King.  (1)   France must give up Burgundy and all claims to Flanders, Artois, and Italy. (2) all lands and dignities claimed by the Duke of Bourbon must be surrendered to him. (3)Provence and Dauphiné should be made an independent state. (4) France must restore to England all French territory formerly held by Britain -- i.e. Normandy, Anjou, Gascony, and Guienne. (5) Francis must sign an alliance with the Emperor, and join him in a campaign against the Turks. Louise answered that France would not yield an inch of French territory, and was prepared to defend it to the last man. ( the lady made no mention of women?   My remark, not the Durants’.) The regent acted now with an energy, resolution, and intelligence that made the French people forgive her headstrong faults. She arranged at once the organization and equipment of new armies, and sent them to guard all points of possible invasion. To keep the Emperor’s mind off France, she urged  Suleiman of Turkey to defer his attack on Persia and undertake instead a westward campaign; we do not know what part her plea played in the Sultan’s decision, but in 1526 he marched into Hungary, and inflicted so disastrous a defeat upon the Christian army at Mohács that any invasion of France by Charles would have been deemed treason to Christendom. Meanwhile, Louise pointed out Henry VIII and ClementVII how both England and the papacy would be reduced to bondage if the Emperor were allowed all the territory that he demanded. Henry  wavered; Louise persisted, and offered him an “indemnity” of 2,000,000 crowns; he signed a defensive and offensive alliance with France ( August 30, 1525) This female diplomacy opened male eyes, and shattered Charles’ confidence.

By agreement among Louise, Lannoy, and the Emperor, the captive King was transported to Spain. When Francis reached Valencia, (July 2 1525), Charles sent him a courteous letter, but his treatment of his prisoner went no further toward chivalry. Francis was assigned a narrow room in an old castle in Madrid, under rigorous vigilance; the sole freedom allowed him was to ride a mule near the castle, under watch of armed and mounted guards. Louise offered to meet the Emperor and negotiate, but he thought it better to play upon his prisoner than have a woman charm him into lenience. She informed him that her daughter Marguerite, now a widow, “would be happy if she could be agreeable to his Imperial Majesty,” but he preferred Isabella of Portugal, who with a dowry of 900,000 crowns, could provide him at once with bed and board. After two months of anxious imprisonment, Francis fell dangerously ill. The Spanish people regretting the Emperor’s severity, went to their churches to pray for the French King. Charles prayed too, for a dead ruler would be worthless as a political pawn. He visited Francis briefly, promised him an early release, and sent permission to Marguerite to come and comfort her brother.

When at last she reached the bedside of her brother she found him apparently recovering; but he had a relapse, fell into a coma, and seemed to be dying. A tedious convalescence followed. Marguerite stayed with Francis a month, then went to Toledo to appeal to the Emperor. He received her pleas coldly; he had heard of Henry’s league with France, and longed to punish the duplicity of his late ally, and the audacity of Louise. Francis had one card left to play, though it would almost certainly mean his life long imprisonment. Having warned his sister to leave Spain as quickly as possible, he signed a formal letter of abdication in favour of his eldest son; and since this second Francis  was a boy of only eight years, he named Louise -- and in case of her death, Marguerite-- as regent of France. Charles saw at once that a king without a throne, with nothing to surrender, would be useless. But Francis had more physical than moral courage. On January 14, 1526, he signed with Charles the treaty of Madrid. Its terms were those that the Emperor had proposed to Louise; but they were even more severe, for they required that the two eldest sons of the King should be handed over to Charles as hostages for the faithful execution of the agreement. Francis further consented to marry the Emperor’s sister, Eleonora, Queen-dowager of Portugal; and swore that if he should fail to carry out the terms of the treaty he would return to Spain to resume imprisonment. However, on August 22, 1525, he had deposited with his aides a paper nullifying in advance “ all pacts, conventions, renunciations, quittances, revocations, derogations, and oaths that he might have to make contrary to his honour and the good of the crown”; and on the eve of signing the treaty he repeated this statement to his French negotiators, and declared that “it was through force and constraint, confinement, and length of imprisonment that he was signing, and that all that was contained in it was and should remain null and of no effect.”

On March 17, 1526, Viceroy Lannoy delivered Francis to Marshal Lautrec on a barge in the Bidasso River, which separates Spanish Irún from French Hendaye; and in turn Lannoy received Princes Francis and Henry. Their father gave them a blessing and a tear, and hurried on to French soil. There he leaped upon a horse, cried joyfully, “I’m King again!” Louise brought with her a pretty, blonde-haired maid of honour, eighteen years old, Anne de Heilly de Pisselieu, who as planned, struck the King’s eye. He wooed her in haste, and soon won her as his mistress; and from that moment till death parted them the new favourite shared with Louise and Marguerite the heart of the King. She put up patiently with his marriage to Eleonora and with his incidental liasons. To save appearances he gave her a husband, Jean de Brosse, made him Duc, and her Duchesse d’Etampes, and smiled appreciatively when Jean retired to a distant estate in Britanny

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2152 on: March 07, 2014, 04:34:47 PM »
Well, I'm glad to see a woman winning the day, a king surviving, and France remaining. (Of course the poor people in Hungary, who had nothing to do with the conflict, suffered. Such is war).

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2153 on: March 08, 2014, 03:20:16 PM »
What a dramatic story! I guess it's too long to make into a movie, maybe an HBO or SHOWTIME mini series!?! Very interesting and i say ditto to Joan's reply.

Jean

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2154 on: March 13, 2014, 04:58:00 AM »
DURANT"S  S  o  C
Vol. VI  The REFORMATION
Pgs., 512  -  517


                      Hapsburg  and  Valois: 1515  -  1526 .


When the terms of the treaty of Madrid became generally known they aroused almost universal hostility to Charles. The German Protestants trembled at the prospect of facing so strengthened an enemy, Italy resented his claim to suzerainty in Lombardy.  ClemeWhen the terms of the treaty of Madrid became generally known they aroused almost nt VII absolved Francis from the oath he had sworn at Madrid and joined France, Milan, Genoa, Florence, and Venice informing the league of Cognac for common defence (May 22,1526). Charles called Francis “no gentleman,” bade him return to his Spanish prison, ordered a harsher confinement for the King’s sons, and gave free reign to his generals to discipline the Pope.

The Imperial army collected in Germany and Spain, poured down through Italy, scaled the walls of Rome, ( the Duke of Bourbon dying in the process ) sacked the city more thoroughly than any Goths or Vandals had ever done, killed 4000 Romans, and imprisoned Clement in Sant’ Angelo. The Emperor, who had remained in Spain, assured a scandalized Europe that his starving Army had exceeded his instructions; nevertheless his representatives in Rome kept the Pope shut up in Sant’ Angelo from May to December  7,  1527, and exacted from an almost bankrupt papacy an indemnity of 368,000  crowns. Clement appealed to Francis and Henry for aid.. Francis dispatched Lautrec to Italy with an army that sacked Pavia in reckless revenge for its resistance two years before, and Italy wondered whether French friends were any better than German enemies. Lautrec by-passed Rome and besieged Naples, and the city began to starve. But meanwhile Francis had offended Andrea Doria, head of the Genoese navy. Doria called his fleet from the siege of Naples, went over to the side of the Emperor, and provisioned the besieged. Lautrec’s army starved in turn; Lautrec himself died and his army melted away (1528).

The comedy of the rulers hardly relieved the tragedy of the people. When the emissaries of Francis and Henry appeared at Burgos to make a formal declaration of war, Charles retorted to the French envoy: “The King of France is not in a position to address me to such a declaration; he is my prisoner..... Your master acted like a dastard and a scoundrel in not keeping his word that he gave me touching the treaty  of Madrid; if he likes to say the contrary I will maintain my words against him with my body to his”. This challenge to a duel was readily accepted by Francis, who sent a herald to tell Charles “you have lied in your throat.” Charles responded by naming a place for the encounter and asking Francis to name the hour; but French nobles intercepted the messenger, and judicious delays put off the match to the Greek Kaleds. Nations had grown so large that their differences of economic or political interest could not be settled by private combat, or by the small mercenary armies that had been playing the game of war in Renaissance Italy. The modern method of decision by competitive destruction took form in this Hapsburg--Valois debate. *


It took two women to teach the potentates the art and wisdom of peace. Louise of Savoy communicated with Margaret of Austria, regent of the Netherlands, and suggested that Francis, anxious for the return of his sons, would abandon all claims to Flanders, Artois, and Italy, and should pay a ransom of 2,000,000 gold crowns for his children, but would never cede Burgundy. Margaret persuaded her nephew to defer his claim to Burgundy, and to forget the claims of the Duke of Bourbon, now conveniently  dead. On August 3, 1529, the two women and their diplomatic aides signed La Paix des Dames -- the “Ladies Peace” of Cambrai. The ransom was raised out of the commerce, industry, and blood of France, and the royal princes, after four years in captivity, returned to freedom with stories of cruel treatment  that enraged Francis and France. While the two able women found lasting peace -- Margaret in 1530, Louise in 1531 -- the kings prepared to renew their war.   

Francis turned every where for help. To Henry VIII he sent a money appeasement for having almost ignored him in the Cambrai settlement; and Henry, furious at Charles for opposing his “divorce,” pledged his support to France. Within a year or so Francis negotiated alliances with the Protestant leaders of Germany, with the Turks, and with the Pope. The vacillating pontiff however, soon made peace with Charles, and crowned him Emperor (1530) the last coronation of a Holy Roman Emperor by a Pope. Then frightened by a monarch who had in effect made Italy a province of his realm, Clement sought a new bond with France by offering his niece Catherine de Medici in marriage to Francis’ son Henry, Duke of Orleans. King and Pope met at Marseille (Oct.28, 1533 ) and the marriage, pregnant with history, was performed by the Pope himself. A year later Clement died, having not yet made up his mind about anything.

The Emperor, already old at thirty-five, shouldered his self-imposed burdens with weary fortitude. He was shocked to learn -- on the word of the Sultan’s vizier to Ferdinand of Austria -- that the Turkish siege of Vienna in 1529 had been undertaken in response to an Appeal from Francis, Louise, and Clement VII for help against the encompassing Empire.. Moreover Francis had allied himself with the Tunisian chieftain Khair ed-Din Barbarossa, who was harassing Christian commerce in the western Mediterranean, raiding coastal towns, and carrying captive Christians into slavery. Charles collected another army and navy, crossed into Tunis(1535), captured it, freed 10,000 Christian slaves and rewarded his unpaid troops by letting them loot the city and massacre the Moslem population.

The Emperor’s fortunes now ebbed. His young wife, whom he had learnt to love, had died (1539), and his own health was worsening. Francis declared war on him over Milan; the king’s allies now included Sweden, Denmark, Gelderland, Cleves, Scotland, the Turks, and the Pope. Only Henry VIII supported Charles, for a price.

[How the Pope and the Turks together, could be allies against the Holy Roman Emperor shows how crazy things had become. -Trevor]

By diplomacy, and good luck Charles retrieved the situation and went on to overwhelm the Protestants at Muhlberg; Titan pictured him there without arthritis, proud and triumphant, worn and weary after a thousand vicissitudes, a hundred turns of fortunes ironic wheel.

As for Francis, he was finished, and France nearly so. In one sense it lost nothing but honour; he had preserved his country by scuttling the ideals of chivalry. Yet the Turks would have come without his call, and their coming helped Francis to check an Emperor, who, unresisted might have spread the Spanish Inquisition into Holland, Switzerland, Germany, and Italy. Francis had found France peaceful and prosperous; he left it bankrupt and on the brink of yet another war.

He consoled himself with beauty living and dead. He surrounded himself with a ’Petite Banda’ of young women who pleased him with their good looks and gaiety. In 1538 a disease injured his uvula, and thereafter he stammered shamefully. He tried to cure what was probably his syphilis with mercury pills. The king confessed his sins in hurried summary, and breathing painfully, welcomed death. He was fifty-three and had reigned thirty-two years. France felt that it was too much, but when it had recovered from him it forgave him everything, because he had sinned gracefully, he had loved beauty, he had been incarnate France.

In that same year Henry VIII died, and two years later, Marguerite. She had been too long away from Francis, and too far, to realize that death was stalking him. When word came to her, in a convent at Angoulème, that he was seriously ill, she almost lost her reason.



*The duel had existed in the middle ages as an appeal, under royal or judicial sanction and control, to the judgment of God. In the sixteenth century it became a private and individual defense of slighted honour; it developed its own strict laws outside the law of the state; and it shared in some measure in developing the rules of gentlemanly courtesy and discreet restraint. It was not legally permitted in France after 1547, but public opinion continued to sanction it. In England it fell into disuse under Elizabeth; trial by combat, however, remained legal there till 1817.

 

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2155 on: March 15, 2014, 01:50:52 PM »
Very interesting. I'm going to look for books about the women mentioned. More items on my TBR list

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2156 on: March 15, 2014, 05:30:44 PM »
I take back what I said about LHM not being interested in nature. he gives a correct species name for every bird he mentions. (almost unheard of in writing). I seem to remember that he took along a Peterson field guide to birds. As a birder, I love to think of him stopping to look up the name of birds he saw (presumably, if he couldn't find it, he didn't mention it).

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2157 on: March 16, 2014, 07:39:49 PM »
JoanK  what's with the birds? Was your message meant for some other group?  TREVOR


3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2158 on: March 17, 2014, 03:47:50 AM »
Durants'  S  o  C
Vol. VI  THE REFORMATION
Pgs. 518 - 520



                                                       DIANE  DE  POITIERS

The “old gallant,” Francis, had had seven  children, all by Claude. The eldest son, Francis, was like his father, handsome, charming, gay. Henry, born in 1519, was quiet, shy, a bit neglected; he matched his brother only in misfortune. Their four years of hardship and humiliation in Spain had marked them indelibly. Francis died six years after liberation. Henry grew more taciturn than before, turned within himself, shunned the frolics of the court; he had companions, but they rarely saw him smile. Men said that he had become Spanish in Spain.

It was not his choice to marry Catherine de Médicis, not hers to marry him. She too had had tribulations. Both her parents had died of syphilis within twenty-two days of her birth( 1519); and from that time till her marriage she was shifted from place to place, helpless and unasked. When Florence expelled its Medici rulers ( 1527) it kept Caterina as a hostage for their good behaviour, and when these exiles returned to besiege the city she was threatened with death to deter them. Clement VII used her as a pawn to win France to papal policies; she went obediently to Marseille, a girl of fourteen, and married a boy of fourteen who hardly spoke to her during all the festival. When they arrived in Paris she met a cold reception because she brought so many Italians with her. Despite many efforts she remained barren for ten years. Loosing hope of offspring, Catherine de Médicis, as she was called in France, went to Francis weeping, and offered to submit to a divorce, and retire to a convent. The king graciously refused the sacrifice. At last the gates of motherhood burst, and children came in almost annual succession. Ten in all, they were chiefly Francis  II , who would marry Mary Stuart; Elizabeth, who would mary Philip II; Charles IX who would give the order for the Massacre of St. Bartholomew; Edward who became the tragic Henry III; and Marguerite of Valois, who would marry and harry Henry of Navarre.Through all the first four of these barren or fertile years her husband, while begetting children on her body, gave his love to Diane de Poitiers.

Diane was unique among the royal mistresses who played so leading a role in French history. She was not beautiful. When Henry, seventeen, fell in love with her (1536), she was already thirty-seven, her hair was turning gray and wrinkles were beginning to score the years on her brow. Her only physical charms were grace, and a complexion kept fresh by washing with cold water at all seasons. She was not a courtesan; apparently she was faithful to her husband, Louis de Brézé, till his death; and though, like Henry, she indulged in two or three asides during her royal liaison, these were  venial incidents, mere grace notes in her song of love. She was not romantic; rather she was too practical, making hay while the sun shone; France condemned not her morals but her money. Diane had good education, good sense, good manners, good wit; here was a mistress who charmed with her mind.

She came of high lineage, and was brought up at the art loving court of the Bourbons at Moulins. Her father, Jean de Poitiers, shared the Duke of Bourbon’s treason after trying to prevent it; he was captured and sentenced to death; Diane’s husband, in favour with Francis, secured her father’s pardon. Louis de Brézé was grandson of Charles VII by Agnés Sorel; he had ability or influence, for he became Grant’ Sénéschal and Governor of Normandy. He was fifty-six when Diane, sixteen, became his wife (1515). When he died  (1531), she raised to his memory a magnificent tomb with an inscription vowing eternal fidelity. She never maried again, and wore, thereafter, only black and white.

She met Henry when, a lad of seven, he was being handed over at Bayonne as a hostage for his father. The bewildered boy wept; Diane, then twenty-seven, mothered and comforted him, whose own mother, Claude was two years dead; and perhaps the memory of those pitying embraces revived in him when he met her again eleven years later.Though then four years a husband, he was still mentally immature, as well as abnormally melancholy and diffident; he wanted a mother more than a wife; and here again Diane appeared, quiet, tender, comforting. He came to her first as a son, and their relations for some time were apparently chaste. Her affection and council gave him confidence; under her tutelage he ceased to be a misanthrope, and prepared to be a king. Popular opinion credited them with having one child, Diane de France, whom she brought up with her two daughters by Brézé; she also adopted the daughter borne to Henry in 1538 by a piedmontese maiden who paid for her royal moment by a lifetime as a nun. Another illegitimate child resulted from Henry’s later affair with Mary Fleming, governess of Mary Stuart. Despite these experiments, his devotion was increasingly to Diane de Poitiers. He did not entirely neglect Catherine; usually he dined and spent the evenings with her; and she, grateful for the parings of his love, accepted in silent sorrow the fact that another  woman was the real dauphiness of France. She must have felt it as an added wound that Diane occasionally prodded Henry into sleeping with his wife.

His infatuation with Diane made her almost as rich as the queen. He guaranteed to Diane a fixed percentage of all receipts from the sale of appointments to office, and nearly all appointments were in her power. He gave her the crown jewels that the Duchesse d’Étampes had worn; when the Duchess protested, Diane threatened to accuse her of Protestantism, and was brought off only by a gift of property. Henry allowed her to keep for her use 400,000 thalers that Francis had bequeathed for secret support of the Protestant princes in Germany. So dowered, Diane rebuilt the old Brézé mansion of Anet into an extensive château that became not only a second home for the King but also a museum of art, and a handsome reendezvous for poets, artists, diplomats, dukes, generals, cardinals, mistresses, and philosophers. Here in effect sat the Privy Council of the state, and Diane was prime ministress, passionless and intelligent. Everywhere dishes,coats of arms,works of art, choir stalls bore the bold symbol of the royal romance, two D’s placed back to back with a dash between them forming the letter H.

In the struggle of the Church against heresy, Diane put all her influence behind orthodoxy and suppression. She had abundant reasons for piety; her daughter was married to a son of Francis, Duke of Guise; and Francis, with his brother Charles, Cardinal of Lorraine, both favourites at Anet, were the leaders of the Catholic party in France. As for Henry, his childhood piety had been intensified by his years in Spain; his love letters confused God and Diane as rivals for his heart. The Church was helpful; it gave him3,000,000 golden crowns for canceling his father’s decree restricting the power of ecclesiastical courts.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2159 on: March 17, 2014, 04:59:13 PM »
"At last the gates of motherhood burst, and children came in almost annual succession."

Can't help wondering whether at that point, she decided she needed another man to help things along. I admit, that's what I might have done if my husband was spending all his time with his mistress.

Sorry about the birds. I meant the comment for "Blue Highways".