Author Topic: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant  (Read 371863 times)

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2160 on: March 25, 2014, 05:37:50 AM »

"I want to know what were the steps by which
man passed from barbarism to civilization (Voltaire)"

   



What are our origins?
Where are we now?
Where are we headed?
Share your thoughts with us!
   Volume Five (The Renaissance)
       
"Four elements constitute Civilization -- economic provision, political organization, moral traditions, and the pursuit of knowledge and the arts. "
 
"I shall proceed as rapidly as time and circumstances will permit, hoping that a few of my contemporaries will care to grow old with me while learning. "
       
"These volumes may help some of our children to understand and enjoy the infinite riches of their inheritance."
       
"Civilization begins where chaos and insecurity ends."






This volume, then, is about YOU. Join our group daily and listen to what Durant and the rest of us are saying. Better yet, share with us your opinions.
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SeniorLearn Contact: JoanK & Discussion Facilitator: Trevor
 


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DURANTS'  S  o  C
Vol. VI.  THE REFORMATION
Pgs. 520 - 522



Nevertheless Protestantism was growing in France. Calvin and others were sending in missionaries whose success was alarming. Several towns, Caen, Poitiers, La Rochelle, and many in Provence -- were predominantly Huguenot by 1559; a priest reckoned the French Protestants in that year at nearly a quarter of the population. Says a Catholic historian: “The source of the apostasy in Rome -- ecclesiastical corruption -- had not been removed, nay, had only been strengthened, by the ... Concordat” between Leo X and Francis I. In the lower and middle classes Protestantism was in part a protest against a Catholic government that curbed municipal autonomy, taxed unbearably, and wasted revenues and lives in war. The nobility, shorn of its former political power by the kings, looked with envy at Lutheran princes victorious over Charles V; Perhaps a similar feudalism could be restored in France by using widespread popular resentment against abuses in Church and state.

For its theology Gallic Protestantism adopted Calvin’s ‘Institutes”; its author and language were French, and its logic appealed to the French mind. After 1559 Luther was almost forgotten in France; the very name Huguenot came from Zurich through  Geneva to Provence. In May 1559, the Protestants felt strong enough to send deputies to their first general synod, held secretly in Paris. By 1561 there were 2000 “Reformed” or Calvinistic churches in France.

Henry II set himself to crush the heresy. By his instructions the ‘Parlement’ of Paris organised a special commission (1549) to prosecute dissent; those condemned were sent to the stake, and a new court came to be called “le chambre ardente, the burning room.” By the Edict of Chateaubriand (1551) the printing, sale, or possession of heretical literature was made a major crime, and persistence in Protestant ideas was to be punished with death. Informers were to receive a third of the goods of the condemned. In three years the ‘chambre ardente’ sent sixty Protestants to a flaming death. Henry proposed to Pope Paul IV that the Inquisition should be established in France on the new Roman model, but the Parlement objected to allowing its authority to be superseded. One of its members, Anne du Bourg boldly suggested that all pursuit of heresy should cease until the Council of Trent should complete its definitions of orthodox dogma. Henry had him arrested, and vowed to see him burned, but fate cheated the King of this spectacle. { The mismatch of female name and masculine pronouns is how Durant or the printers wrote the sentence, not me.}

 Meanwhile he had been lured into renewing the war against the Emperor. He could never forgive the long imprisonment of his father, his brother, and himself; he hated Charles with the same intensity with which he loved Diane. When the Lutheran princes made their decisive stand against the Emperor for Christ and feudalism, they sought alliance with Henry, and invited him to seize Lorraine. In a rapid and well directed campaign he took with little trouble Toul, Nancy, Metz, and Verdun. Charles, readier to yield victory to Protestantism in Germany than to Valois in France, signed a humble peace with the princes Passau, and hurried to besiege the French in Metz. Francis, Duke of Guise, made his reputation there by the skill and pertinacity of his defence. From October 19 to December 26 1552, the siege continued then Charles, pale, haggard, white bearded, crippled, withdrew his disheartened troops. “I see very well,” he said, “that fortune resembles a woman; she prefers a young king to an old emperor. Before three years are up,” he added, “I shall turn Cordelier” -- i.e., a Franciscan friar.

In 1555-56 he resigned his power in the Netherlands and Spain to his son, signed the truce of Vaucellas with France, and left for Spain ( Sept 17,1556) He thought he was bequeathing to Philip a realm at peace, but Henry felt that the situation called for another sally into Italy. Philip had no reputation as a general, he was unexpectedly plunged into war  with Pope Paul IV; to Henry the opportunity seemed golden. He sent Guise to take Milan and Naples, and himself prepared to meet Philip on the ancient battle fields of north-eastern France. Philip rose to the occasion. He borrowed a million ducats from Anton Fogger  {remember him, one of the first capitalist bankers? -- Trevor} and charmed Queen Mary of England into the war. At Saint-Quentin( August 10,1537) Duke Emmanuel Philibert of Savoy led Philip’s combined armies to an overwhelming victory, took Coligny and Montmorency prisoners, and prepared to march on Paris. The city was in a panic; defence seemed impossible. Henry recalled Guise and his troops from Italy; the Duke crossed France, and by remarkable celerity of movement surprised and captured Calais (1558), which England had held since 1348. Philip, hating war and anxious to return to Spain, was readily persuaded to sign the treaty of Cateau-Cambrésis (April 2,1559): Henry agreed to stay north of the Alps, and Philip consented to let him keep Lorraine and -- over Mary’s tears,-- Calais. Suddenly ,the two kings became friends; Henry gave his daughter Elizabeth in marriage to Philibert, who now recovered Savoy; and a stately festival of jousts, banquets, and weddings was arranged.

Henry, now forty, insisted on entering a royal tournament. In such jousts victory was adjudged to the rider who, without being unhorsed, broke three lances against the armour of his foe. Henry accomplished this upon the Dukes of Guise and Savoy, who knew their proper roles in the play. But a third opponent Montgomery, after breaking a lance against the King, awkwardly allowed the sharp-pointed stump of the weapon to pass under Henry’s visor, it pierced the King’s eye and reached the brain. For nine days he lay unconscious. On July 9 the marriage of Philibert and Marguerite was celebrated. On July 10 ,the King died. Diane de Poitiers retired to Anet, and survived seven years. Catherine de Medicis, who had hungered for his love, wore mourning all the rest of her life.


 

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2161 on: March 26, 2014, 02:45:12 PM »
Believe it or not, the State Sport of the state of Maryland, where I lived for many years, is jousting. Once a year, during a fair, they stage a jousting event, and I was able to see it. They ham it up -- announcing it in much the same way that wrestling is announced today, making it anything but a dignified sport. I don't know if that is historically accurate or not, but I enjoyed it hugely.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2162 on: March 26, 2014, 02:51:12 PM »
I'm reading a book about the history of the Spanish language. Interesting that the people who were important in language development get little attention in history books. I don't remember talking about Alphonso X of Spain who rationalized the Spanish language in about 1270.

I've just gotten to a discussion of how important the ejection of the Moors and Jews from Spain was to language development, sprinkling educated Spanish speakers to many places.

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2163 on: March 26, 2014, 10:50:37 PM »
Joan, interesting that the State sport of Maryland is jousting. We have 'Medieval Fairs' in the state of Tennessee. Period costumes are worn and jousting is one of the contests.  

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2164 on: March 31, 2014, 04:56:59 AM »
DURANTS'  S  o  C
Vol.VI  THE REFORMATION
Pgs. 523 - 525



                           HENRY VIII and CARDINAL WOLSEY
                                                     1509 - 1529

 1.  A Promising King  1509 - 11

No one, beholding the youth who mounted the throne of England in 1509, would have foreseen that he was to be both the hero and the villain of the most dramatic reign in English history. Still a lad of eighteen, his fine complexion and regular features made him almost girlishly attractive; but his athletic figure and prowess soon cancelled any appearance of femininity. Foreign ambassadors vied with native eulogists in praising his auburn hair, his golden beard, his “extremely fine calf.” “He is extremely fond of tennis,” reported Guistiniani to the Venetian Senate; “it is the prettiest thing in the world to see him play, his fair skin glowing through a shirt of finest texture.” He was also an accomplished musician, “sang and played all kinds of instruments with rare talent” ( wrote the papal nuncio ), and composed two Masses, which are still preserved. he ate with gusto, and sometimes prolonged state dinners to seven hours, but in the first twenty years of his reign his vanity curbed his appetite. Everybody liked him, and marvelled at his genial ease of  manners and access, his humour, tolerance, and clemency. His accession was hailed as the dawn of a new age.

Originally destined for an ecclesiastical career, he became something of a theologian, and could quote Scripture to any purpose. Sir Thomas More said of him that he “has more learning than any English monarch ever possessed before him” -- no high praise. “What may we not expect,” More continued, “from a king who has been nourished by philosophy and the nine Muses?” Erasmus visited, and for a moment shared the delirium. “Heretofore,” he wrote, “the heart of learning was among such as professed religion. Now, while these for the most  part gave themselves up to the belly, luxury, and money, the love of learning is gone from them to secular princes, the court, and the nobility .... the King admits not only such  men like More to his court, but he invites them -- forces them -- to watch all that he does, to share his duties and his pleasures.  He prefers the companionship of men like More to that of silly youths or girls on the rich.” In the year of Henry’s accession Colet, inheriting his father’s fortune, used much of it to establish St. Paul’s School. Some 150 boys were chosen to study, there, classical literature and Christian theology and ethics. Colet violated tradition by staffing schools with lay teachers; it was the first non-clerical school in Europe. The “Trojans” who in Oxford inveighed against the teaching of classics on the ground that it led to religious doubt, opposed Colet’s program, but the King over ruled them and gave Colet full encouragement. Though Colet was himself orthodox and a model of piety, his enemies charged him with heresy. Archbishop Warham silenced them, and Henry concurred. When Colet saw Henry bent on war with France, he publicly condemned the policy, and declared, like Erasmus, that an unjust peace was to be preferred to the justest war. Even with the King seated in the congregation Colet denounced war as flying in the face of the precepts of Christ. Henry privately begged  him not to disrupt the morale of the army, but when the king was urged to depose Colet he answered: “Let everyone have his own doctor.. this man is the doctor for me.” Colet continued to take Christianity seriously. To Erasmus  he wrote (1517) in the spirit of Thomas à Kempis:

“Ah, Erasmus, of books of knowledge there is no end; but there is nothing better for this short term of ours than that we should live a pure and holy life, and daily do our best to be cleansed and enlightened ..... by the ardent love and imitation of Jesus. Wherefore it is my most earnest wish that, leaving all indirect courses, we may proceed by a short method to the Truth. Farewell.”

In 1518 he prepared his own simple tomb, with only ‘Johannes Coletus’ inscribed on it. A year later he was buried in it , and many felt that a saint had passed away.

 

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2165 on: April 04, 2014, 04:01:37 PM »
Unfortunately, something has changed the print on my computer to tiny type. Until I figure out how to change it back, I can't manage your posts, Trevor.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2166 on: April 04, 2014, 04:15:43 PM »
Ha! I did it. after three false tries. We'll see if it stays, and if I can remember.

Trust Durant to find an unfamiliar side to such a familiar king. henry VIII a scholar? Who knew?

This I did know, thanks to a mystery story I read.  "“He is extremely fond of tennis,”" The tennis he played is different from the modern game, and there are groups of people in England who still play it, sneering at the modern version. I'm a tennis fan, but I couldn't figure out from the book I read how the game went (nor do I remember the name of the book -- I'll look for it). But it was clearly very different.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2167 on: April 04, 2014, 04:21:21 PM »
Okay, here is a youtube description of "real tennis". Notice, he uses the same quote Durant did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od9s1u3LJI4

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2168 on: April 05, 2014, 10:09:56 AM »
What is it ( besides those six wives) that is so intriguing about HenryVIII? We know so much more about him - and his wives - then any other king of England. More stories and movies about him and the wives, I think, still to today. 

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2169 on: April 08, 2014, 03:22:51 AM »
Durants'  S  o  C
Vol.Vi  The REFORMATION
Pgs. 525 - 527


                                                   Wolsey 
Henry, who was to become the incarnation of Machiavelli’s ‘Prince,’ was as yet an innocent novice in international politics. He recognized his need for guidance, and sampled the men around him. More was brilliant, but only thirty-one, and inclined to sanctity. Thomas Wolsey was a mere three  years older, and was a priest, but his whole turn was for statesmanship, and religion was for him part of politics. Born at Ipswich “of low extraction and despicable blood” ( so the proud Guiccardini described him), Thomas had covered the baccalaureate course at Oxford by the age of fifteen; at twenty-three  he was bursar at Magdalen college, and showed his quality  by applying adequate funds, beyond his authority, for completion of that hall’s majestic tower. He knew how to get along. Henry VIII, on accession, made him almoner -- director of charaties. Soon the priest was a member of the Privy Council, and shocked Archbishop Warham by advocating a military alliance with Spain against France.

Louis XII was invading Italy, and might again make the papacy a dependency of France; in any case France must not become too strong. Henry yielded in this matter to Wolsey and his own father-in -law, Ferdinand of Spain; he himself at this time inclined to peace. “ I content myself with my own,” he told Giustiniani; “I wish to command only my own subjects; but on the other hand I do not choose that anyone shall have it in his power to command me.”  This almost sums up Henry’s political career. He had inherited the claim of the English kings to the crown of France, but he knew that this was an empty pretence. The war petered out quickly in the battle of the Spurs (1513). Wolsey arranged the peace, and persuaded Louis XII to marry Henry’s sister Mary. Louis X, pleased with having been rescued, made Wolsey Archbishop of York (1514) and Cardinal (1515). Henry, triumphant, made him Chancellor (1515). The King prided himself on having protected the papacy; and when a later pope refused him marriage easement he deemed it gross ingratitude.

The first five years of Wolsey’s chancellorship were among the most successful in the record of English diplomacy. His aim was to organize the peace of Europe by using England as a makeweight to preserve a balance of power between the Holy Roman Empire and France; presumably it entered into his purview that he would thus become the arbiter of Europe, and that peace on the Continent would favour England’s vital trade with the Netherlands. As a first step he negotiated an Alliance between France and England (1518), and betrothed Henry’s two-year-old daughter Mary( later Queen) to the seven-month-old son of Francis I. Wolsey’s taste for lavish entertainment revealed itself when French emissaries came to London to sign the agreements; he feted them in his Westminster Palace with a dinner “the like of which,” reported Guistiniani “ was never given by Cleopatra or Caligula, the whole banqueting hall being decorated with huge vases of gold and silver.” But the worldly Cardinal could be forgiven; he was playing for high stakes, and he won. He insisted that the alliance should be open to Emperor Maximilian I, King Charles of Spain, and Pope Leo X; they were invited to join; they accepted; and Erasmus, More, and Colet thrilled with the hope that an era of peace had dawned  for all Western Christendom. Even Wolsey’s enemies congratulated him. He took the opportunity to bribe English agents in Rome to secure his appointment as papal legate ‘a latere’ in Britain; the phrase meant “on the side, confidential,” and was the highest designation of a papal emissary. Wolsey was now supreme head of the English Church, and -- with strategic obeisances to Henry -- ruler of England.

The peace was clouded a year later by the rivalry of Francis I and Charles I for the Imperial throne; even Henry thought of flinging his beret into the ring, but he had no Fugger. The winner, as now Charles the V, briefly visited England (May 1520), paid his respects to his aunt Catherine of Aragon, Henry’s Queen, and offered to marry Princess Mary ( already betrothed to the Dauphin). If England would promise to support Charles in any future conflict with France; so unnatural is peace. Wolsey refused, but accepted a pension of 7000 ducats from the Emperor, and drew from him a pledge to help him become pope.

The brilliant Cardinal achieved his most spectacular triumph in the meeting of the French and English sovereigns on the Field of the Cloth of Gold. (June 1520) Here, in an open space between Guines and Ardres near Calais, medieval art and Chivalry displayed themselves in sunset magnificence. Four thousand English noblemen, chosen and placed by the Cardinal and dressed in the silks, flounces, and lace of late medieval costume, accompanied Henry as the young and bearded King rode on a white palfrey to meet Francis I; and not last or least came Wolsey himself, clad in crimson satin robes rivalling the splendour of the Kings. An impromptu palace had been built to receive their Majesties, their ladies, and their staffs; a pavilion that had been covered with gold-threaded cloth, and hung with costly tapestries, shaded the conference and the feasts; a fountain ran wine; and space was cleared for a royal tournament. The political and martial alliance of the two nations was confirmed. The happy monarchs jousted, even wrestled; and Francis risked the peace of Europe by throwing the English King. With characteristic French grace he repaired his faux pas by going, early one morning, unarmed and with a few armed attendants, to visit  Harry in the English camp. It was a gesture of friendly trust which Harry understood. The monarchs exchanged precious gifts and solemn vows.

In truth neither could trust the other, for it is a lesson of history that men lie most when they govern states. From seventeen days of festivities with Francis, Henry went to three days of conference with Charles of Calais ( July 1520). There King and Emperor, chaperoned by Wolsey, swore eternal friendship, and agreed to proceed no further with their plans to marry into the royal family of France. These separate alliances were more precarious for European peace than the multilateral entente that Wolsey had arranged before Maximilian’s death,  but it still left England in the position of mediator and, in effect, arbiter -- a position far loftier than any that could be based on English wealth or power. Henry was satisfied. To reward his Chancellor he ordered the monks of St. Albans to elect Wolsey as their abbot and dower him with their net revenue, for “ my Lord Cardinal has sustained many charges in this his voyage.” The monks obeyed, and Wolsey‘s income neared his needs.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2170 on: April 08, 2014, 03:08:30 PM »
" even Henry thought of flinging his beret into the ring, but he had no Fugger"

I wonder what that means?

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2171 on: April 08, 2014, 03:11:15 PM »
Ah, here are the Fuggers: a banking family that controlled much of the economy of Europe in the 15th and 16th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugger

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2172 on: April 16, 2014, 04:42:33 AM »
DURANTS'   S  o  C
Vol.VI  The REFORMATION
Pgs. 529  -  532



                                              WOLSEY  (cont.) 
He was, on a grander scale than most of us, a fluid compound of virtues and faults. His morals were imperfect. Twice he slipped into illegitimate parentage; these were peccadilloes readily overlooked in that lusty age; but if we may believe a bishop, the cardinal suffered from the “pox”. He accepted what might or might not be called bribes, large gifts of money from both Francis and Charles; he kept them bidding against each other with the pensions and benefices that they offered him; these were courtesies of the time; and the expensive Cardinal who felt that his policies  were serving all Europe, felt that all Europe should serve him. Beyond doubt he loved money and luxury, pomp and power. A large part of his income went to maintain an establishment whose surface extravagance may have been a tool of diplomacy, designed to give foreign ambassadors an exaggerated notion of English resources. Henry paid Wolsey no salary, so the Chancellor had to live and entertain on his ecclesiastical revenues and his pensions from abroad. He was the richest and most powerful subject in the nation; “seven times more powerful than the Pope,” thought Giustiniani; he is,said Erasmus, “the second king.” Only one step remained to be taken -- the papacy. Twice Wolsey tried for it, but in that game the wily Charles, ignoring promises, outplayed him.

The Cardinal believed that ceremony is the cement of power; force can gain power, but only public habituation can cheaply and peaceably sustain it; and people judge a man’s altitude by the ceremony that hedges him in.. So in his public and official appearances Wolsey dressed in the formal splendour that seemed to him advisable. Red hat of a cardinal, red gloves, robes of scarlet or crimson taffeta, shoes of silver or gilt inlaid with pearls and precious stones. Here were Innocent III, Benjamin Disraeli, and Beau Brummel all in one. He allowed his attendants to kneel in waiting upon him at table. Five hundred persons, many of them of high lineage, served him in his office and his home. Hampton Court that he built as his residence was so luxurious that he presented it to the king (1525) to avert the evil eye of royal jealousy.

Sometimes, however, he forgot that Henry was King. An ambassador wrote  “If it were necessary to neglect either King or Cardinal it would be better to pass over the King; the Cardinal might resent precedence conceded to the King.” Peers and diplomats seldom obtained audience with the Chancellor until the third request. With each passing year the Cardinal ruled more and more openly as a dictator; he called parliament once during his ascendancy; he paid little attention to constitutional forms; he met opposition with resentment and criticism with rebuke. The historian Polydore Vergil wrote that these methods would bring Wolsey’s fall; Vergil was sent to the Tower, and only repeated intercession by Leo X secured his release. Opposition grew.

Perhaps those whom Wolsey superseded or disciplined secured the ear of history, and transmitted his sins unabsolved. But no one questioned his ability. He was generous to scholars and artists, and began a religious reform by replacing several monasteries with colleges. He was on his way to a stimulating improvement of English education when all his enemies he had made in the haste of his labours and the myopia of his pride, conspired with a royal romance to engineer his fall.

He recognised and largely exemplified the abuses which still survived in the ecclesiastical life of England; absentee bishops, worldly clergymen, idle monks, and priests snared into parentage. The state which had so often called for a reform of the Church, was now part of the evils, for the bishops were appointed by the kings. Some bishops, like Morton and Warham and Fisher, were men of high character. and calibre;  many others were too absorbed in the comforts of prelacy to train their clergy in spiritual fitness as well as financial assiduity. The sexual morality of the curates was probably better than in Germany, but among 8,000 parishes in England there were inevitably cases of sacerdotal concubinage, adultery, drunkenness, and crime -- enough to make Archbishop Morton say ( 1486) that “the scandal of their lives imperilled the stability of their order.” The parish priests, suspecting that their promotion depended on their collections were more than ever exacting tithes; some took a tenth , each year, of the peasant’s chickens, eggs, milk, cheese, and fruit, even of all wages paid to his help; and any man who left no legacy to the Church ran high risk of being denied Christian burial, with prospective results too horrible to contemplate. In short, the clergy, to finance their services, taxed almost as sedulously as the modern state. By 1500 the Church owned, on a conservative Catholic estimate, almost a fifth of all property in England. The nobility, here as in Germany, envied this ecclesiastical wealth, and itched to recover lands and revenues alienated to God by their pious or fearful ancestors.

The regular or monastic clergy incurred severe censure. Archbishop Morton in 1489 charged Abbot William of  St. Albans with “simony, usury, embezzlement, and living publicly and continuously with harlots and mistresses within the precincts of monastery and without”; he accused the monks of “ a life of lasciviousness . . . nay, of defiling the holy places, even the churches of God, by infamous intercourse with nuns,” making a neighbouring priory “a public brothel.” In 1520 there were some 130 nunneries in England. Only four had over thirty inmates. Eight were suppressed by the bishops, in one case, said the bishop, because of “the dissolute disposition and incontinence of the religious women of the house, by reason of the vicinity of Cambridge University.”

The clergy were not popular. Eustace Chapuys, Catholic ambassador of Charles V to England wrote to his master in 1529 “Nearly all the people hate the priests.” Many men fully orthodox in creed denounced the severity of ecclesiastical taxation, the extravagance of the prelates, the wealth and idleness of the monks.

When the chancellor of the bishop of London was accused of murdering a heretic ( 1514), the bishop begged Wolsey to prevent trial by a civil jury, “for assured I am, if my chancellor be tried by any twelve men in London, they be so maliciously set in favour of heretical pravity that they will cast and condemn my clerk though he were as innocent as Abel.” Heresy was rising again. In 1506 forty-five men were charged with heresy before the bishop of Lincoln; forty-three recanted, two were burned. In 1510 the bishop of London tried forty heretics, burned two; in 1512 he tried forty-five and burned five. Among the heresies were contentions that the consecrated Host remains merely bread; that priests have no more power than other men to consecrate or absolve; that the sacraments are not necessary to salvation; that pilgrimages to holy shrines, and prayer for the dead, are worthless; that prayers should be addressed only to God; that man can be saved by faith alone, regardless of good works; that the faithful Christian is above all laws but that of Christ; that the bible, not the church should be the sole rule of faith; that all men should marry, and that monks and nuns should repudiate their vows of chastity. Some of these heresies were echoes of Lollardry, some were reverberations of Luther’s trumpet blasts. As early as 1521 young rebels in Oxford eagerly imported news of religious revolution in Germany. Several of them, anticipating persecution, migrated to the Continent, printed anti-Catholic tracts, and sent them clandestinely into England.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2173 on: April 16, 2014, 03:30:57 PM »
Not a pretty picture.

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2174 on: April 22, 2014, 06:57:05 PM »
Durants'  S  o  C
Vol.VI  THE REFORMATION
Pgs.  532  -  534





                    HENRY  VIII  and  CARDINAL WOLSEY

Cambridge in 1521 - 1525 harboured a dozen future Heresiarchs. Several of them anticipating persecution, migrated to the continent, printed anti-catholic tracts, and sent them clandestinely into England. Possibly as a deterrent to this movement, and perhaps to display his theological erudition, Henry VIII issued in 1521 his famous ‘Assertion of the Seven Sacraments against Martin Luther.' Many thought Wolsey the secret author, and Wolsey may have suggested the book and its leading ideas as part of his diplomacy at Rome; but Erasmus claimed that the King had actually thought out and composed the treatise, and opinion now inclines to that view. The book has the ring of a tyro; it hardly attempts rational refutation, but relies on Biblical quotations, Church traditions, and vigorous abuse. “What serpent so venomous,” wrote the future rebel against the papacy, “as he who calls the pope’s authority tyrannous? . . . What a great limb of the devil he is, endeavouring to tear the Christian members of Christ from their head!” No punishment could be too great for one who “will not obey the Chief Priest and Supreme Judge on earth,” for “the whole Church is subject not only to Christ but .... to Christ’s only vicar, the pope of Rome.” Henry’s agent, presenting the book to Leo X, asked him to confer on Henry and his successors the title “Defensor Fidei” -- Defender of the Faith. Leo consented and the inaugurator of the English Reformation placed the words upon his coins.

Luther took his time in answering. In 1525 he replied characteristically to that “lubberly ass,” that “frantic madman . .. that King of Lies, King Heinz, by God’s disgrace King of England . . . since with malice aforethought that damnable and rotten worm has lied against my King in heaven, it is right for me to bespatter this English monarch with his own filth.” Henry, unaccustomed to such sprinkling, complained to the Elector of Saxony, who was too polite to tell him not to meddle with lions. The king never forgave Luther, despite the latter’s apology; even when in full rebellion against the papacy he repudiated the German Protestants.

Luther’s most effective answer was his influence in England. In that same year 1525 we hear of a London “Association of Christian Brothers,” whose paid agents went about distributing Lutheran and other heretical tracts, and English Bibles in part or whole. In 1408 Archbishop Arundel, disturbed by the circulation of Wyclif’s version of the Scriptures, had forbidden any vernacular translation without Episcopal approval, on the ground that an unauthorized version might misconstrue difficult passages, or colour the rendering to support a heresy. Many clergymen had discouraged the reading of the Bible in any form, argue that special knowledge was necessary to a right interpretation, and that Scriptural excerpts were being used to foment sedition. The Church had raised no official objection to pre-Wyclif translations, but this tacit permission had been of no moment, since all English versions before 1526 were manuscript.

Hence the epochal importance of the English New Testament printed by Tyndale in 1525-26. Early in his student days he had planned to translate the Bible, not from the Latin Vulgate as Wyclif had done, but from the original Hebrew and Greek. When an ardent Catholic reproved him, saying, “It would be better to be without God’s law”-- i.e., the Bible -- “than without the pope’s” Tyndale answered: “If God spare me life, ere many years have passed I will cause the boy that driveth the plow to know more of the Scripture than you do.” In 1524 Tyndale went to Wittenberg, and continued the work under Luther's guidance. At Cologne he began to print his version of the New Testament from the Greek text as edited by Erasmus. An English agent roused the authorities against him; Tyndale fled from Catholic Cologne to Protestant Worms, and there printed 6,000 copies, to each of which he added a separate volume of notes and aggressive prefaces based on those of Erasmus and Luther. All these copies were smuggled into England, and served as fuel to the incipient Protestant fire. Cuthbert Tunstall, Bishop of London, tried to suppress the edition by buying all discoverable copies and publicly burning them, but new copies kept coming from the continent, and More commented that Tunstall was financing Tyndale’s press.

The king thought to quiet the disturbance by forbidding the reading or circulation of the Bible in English. Meanwhile all printing, sale, importation, or possession of heretical works was banned by the government. Wesley sent orders to arrest Tyndale, but Philip, Landgrave of Hesse, protected the author, and he proceeded, at Marburg, with his translation of the Pentateuch (1530). Slowly, by his own labour or under his supervision, most of the Old Testament was rendered into English. But in a careless moment he fell into the hands of Imperial officials; he was imprisoned for sixteen months at Vilvorde ( Near Brussels) and was burned at the stake. Tradition reports his last words as “ Lord, ope the King of England’s eyes.” When the historic Authorized Version appeared ( 1611) 90% of the greatest and most influential classic in English literature was unaltered Tyndale.




mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2175 on: April 22, 2014, 09:04:38 PM »
What an interesting pair.............. I am still reading the posts, i just haven't had much time to write comments.

Jean

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2176 on: April 26, 2014, 10:15:15 PM »
Durant writes of future 'Heresiarchs' who have the ring of a 'tyro' in their writings.

I had to look up the meaning of 'tyro'. It meant what I thought it did, but I have never used that word in a sentence or remember reading it before today. It means 1. a beginner in learning......A. amateur....B novice.

Does anyone use the word 'tyro' instead of novice or amateur? 

I frequently put two words together to make a 'new word' such as Durant's 'heresiarchs'. It is so true that 'power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely'. They all are flaming hypocrites, and one cannot take anything they say as fact.

Tyndale did humanity a favor by translating the 'myth' of the Arab gods for the west. When the 'boy behind the plow' could finally read that book for himself, it eventually ended the 'reign of terror' imposed by that fairy tale.

Emma 

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2177 on: April 27, 2014, 03:47:07 PM »
I've seen "tyro" in print, but never heard anyone use it in speech. There are a lot of words like that.

Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2178 on: April 27, 2014, 09:45:24 PM »
Thanks Joan.

The news today was about two former popes being made 'saints' by the current pope and the retired pope. I have yet to meet any pope in our discussion who could be deemed a 'saint' by any stretch of the imagination. There were 'protesters' at today's festivities who say they should not be made 'saints' because of the 'child molestation' charges that happened during their reign, and they did nothing to stop it.

In the time we are reading about she would have been charged with heresy and burned at the stake. Today she is on international television, seen all over the world, and her charges are legitimate.

Emma




Emily

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2179 on: April 27, 2014, 10:04:39 PM »
An excerpt from wikipedia on heresy........

Quote
In England, the 16th-century European Reformation resulted in a number of executions on charges of heresy. During the thirty-eight years of Henry VIII's reign, about sixty heretics, mainly Protestants, were executed and a rather greater number of Catholics lost their lives on grounds of political offences such as treason, notably Sir Thomas More and Cardinal John Fisher, for refusing to accept the king's supremacy over the Church in England. Under Edward VI, the heresy laws were repealed in 1547 only to be reintroduced in 1554 by Mary I; even so two radicals were executed in Edward's reign (one for denying the reality of the incarnation, the other for denying Christ's divinity).

Under Mary, around two hundred and ninety people were burnt at the stake between 1555 and 1558 after the restoration of papal jurisdiction. When Elizabeth I came to the throne, the concept of heresy was retained in theory but severely restricted by the 1559 Act of Supremacy and the one hundred and eighty or so Catholics who were executed in the forty-five years of her reign were put to death because they were considered members of "...a subversive fifth column." The last execution of a "heretic" in England occurred under James I and VI in 1612. Although the charge was technically one of "blasphemy" there was one later execution in Scotland (still at that date an entirely independent kingdom) when in 1697 Thomas Aikenhead was accused, among other things, of denying the doctrine of the Trinity.

A heretic.

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2180 on: April 28, 2014, 12:26:20 AM »
DURANTS'  S  o  C
Vol. VI  The REFORMATION
Pgs  534  -  536



Wolsey’s attitude toward this nascent English Reformation was as lenient as could be expected of a man who headed both Church  and State. He had an intelligent plan for Church reform. “He despised the clergy,” according to Bishop Burnet, “ and in particular .... the monks who did neither the Church nor state any service,” but were through their scandalous lives a reproach to the Church and a burden to the state. Therefore he resolved to suppress a great number of them, and to change them to another institution.” To close a malfunctioning monastery was not unheard of; it had been done by ecclesiastical order in many instances before Wolsey. He began (1519) by issuing statutes for the reform of the canons regular of St. Augustine; if these rules were followed the canons became quite exemplary. He commissioned his secretary, Thomas Cromwell to visit the monasteries in person or through agents, and to report the conditions found; these visitations made Cromwell a practiced hand in later executing Henry’s orders for a severer scrutiny of England’s conventional life. Complaints were heard of the harshness of these agents, of receiving or exacting “gifts” and of their sharing these with Cromwell and the Cardinal. In 1524 Wolsey obtained permission from Pope Clement VII to close such monasteries as had less than seven inmates, and to apply the revenues of these properties to establishing colleges. He was happy when these funds enabled him to open a college in his native Ipswich and another at Oxford. He hoped to continue this process, to close more monasteries year by year and replace them with colleges. But his good intentions were lost in the confusion of politics, and the chief result of his monastic reforms was to provide Henry with a respectable precedent for a more extensive and lucrative scheme.

Meanwhile the Cardinal’s foreign policy had come to grief. Perhaps because he sought the Emperor’s support for election to the papacy, he allowed England to join Charles in war with France (1522). The English campaigns were unsuccessful and expensive in money and lives. To financed fresh efforts Wolsey summoned (1523) the first parliament in seven years, and shocked it by asking an unprecedented subsidy of 800,000 pounds -- a fifth of every layman’s property The Commons protested, and then voted a seventh; the clergy protested, but yielded half a year’s revenue from every benefice. When news came that Charles’s army had overwhelmed the French at Pavia (1525) and taken Francis prisoner, Henry and Wolsey thought it advisable to share in the impending dismemberment of France.. A new invasion was planned; more money was needed; Wolsey risked the last shreds of his popularity by asking all Englishmen with over 50 pounds( $5000) income, to contribute a sixth of their goods to an” Amicable Grant” for the prosecution of the war to a glorious end. The demand was so widely resisted that Wolsey had to veer to a program of peace. But in 1527 Imperial troops captured Rome and the Pope; Charles seemed now the invincible master of the Continent; Wolsey’s policy of check and balance was ruined. In January 1528, England joined France in war against Charles.

Now Charles was the nephew of Catherine of Aragon, from whom Henry earnestly desired a divorce; and Clement VII, who could grant it for reasons of state, was in person and policy a captive of Charles.

                                             THE KING’S “DIVORCE”

Catherine of Aragon, daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella, came to England in 1501, aged sixteen, and married ((November 14) Arthur, aged fifteen, oldest son of Henry VII. Arthur died on April 2 1502. It was generally assumed that the marriage had been consummated; the Spanish ambassador dutifully sent “proofs” thereof to Ferdinand; and Arthur’s title, Prince of Wales, was not officially transferred to his younger brother Henry till two months after Arthur’s death. But Catherine denied the consummation. She had brought with her a dowry of 200,000 ducats ($5,000,000?) Loath to let Catherine go back to Spain with these ducats, and anxious to renew a marital alliance with the powerful Ferdinand, Henry VII proposed that Catherine should marry Prince Henry, though she was the lad’s elder by six years. A biblical passage ( Lev. 20:21) forbade such a marriage." If a man shall take his brother’s wife it is an unclean thing . .   they shall be childless.” Another passage, however, ruled quite the contrary: “If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, . . . her husband’s brother ... shall take her to him to wife.”( Deut. 25:5) Archbishop Warham condemned the proposed union; Bishop Fox of Winchester defended it if a papal dispensation could be obtained from the impediment of affinity. Henry VII applied for the dispensation; Pope Julius granted it (1503) Some canonists questioned, some affirmed, the papal power to dispense from a Biblical precept, and Julius himself had some doubts. The betrothal -- in effect a legal marriage was made formal (1503), but as the bridegroom was still only twelve, cohabitation was postponed. In 1505 prince Henry asked to have the marriage annulled as having been forced upon him by his father, but he was prevailed upon to confirm the union as in the interest of England ; and in 1509, six weeks after his accession, the marriage was publicly celebrated.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2181 on: April 28, 2014, 05:23:40 PM »
And here we go on the merry-go-round of henry's wives.

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2182 on: April 29, 2014, 01:56:28 PM »
And why are people 500 yrs later still so intrigued with Henry and his wives? That's a mystery to me, altho i am also intrigued and have read much about them.  ???

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2183 on: April 29, 2014, 03:26:07 PM »
I have the same question. I'll bet there is more written about him now than all the other monarchs of England put together.

I'm used to a picture of him older, incredibly fat and slothful. I like the Durants' picture of him young, athletic, and scholarly. (But it still doesn't make me like him).

Emily

  • Posts: 365
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2184 on: May 02, 2014, 10:40:47 PM »
Quote
A biblical passage ( Lev. 20:21) forbade such a marriage." If a man shall take his brother’s wife it is an unclean thing . .   they shall be childless.” Another passage, however, ruled quite the contrary: “If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, . . . her husband’s brother ... shall take her to him to wife.”( Deut. 25:5)

Archbishop Warham condemned the proposed union; Bishop Fox of Winchester defended it if a papal dispensation could be obtained from the impediment of affinity. Henry VII applied for the dispensation; Pope Julius granted it (1503)

Some canonists questioned, some affirmed, the papal power to dispense from a Biblical precept, and Julius himself had some doubts.

Ever which way the wind blows. Nothiing is real, it's both sides against the middle with this group of self interested despots, and that goes for their supposed 'holey book' in spades.

These men believe in nothing but their own self promotion.

Emma

 

bluebird24

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2185 on: May 04, 2014, 05:33:56 PM »
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/refo/hd_refo.htm

click on picture you want to look at

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2186 on: May 04, 2014, 06:08:49 PM »
That's quite a site, BLUEBIRD. Thank you.

Here's a picture of Martin Luther from Bluebird's site.

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/55.220.2

He looks like someone who would have done what he did.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2187 on: May 04, 2014, 06:17:59 PM »
Just browsing in BLUEBIRD's site: here is a history and pictures of tapestries made in Europe in a period covering ours. Tapestries were popular, and you can see why: they covered the stone walls in those castles, which must have been freezing. But these are unbelievable in their detail:

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/taps/hd_taps.htm

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2188 on: May 04, 2014, 10:37:45 PM »
One of the best parts of the 12? years of this discussion has been all the great links to other sites. Thanks Joan and Bluebird for adding to that.

Jean

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2189 on: May 05, 2014, 05:15:05 PM »
Has it been that long? I joined just as we started reading about Rome, and asked if it was too late to join. This was the discussion that attracted me to Seniornet.

mabel1015j

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2190 on: May 05, 2014, 06:29:31 PM »
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that Robby had said he was facilitating it for 7/8 years at one point, how long has he been "retired" from this "job"?  :)

It must be ten years because i found it when i was teaching Western Civ and i think i taught it between 1999 and 2004.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2191 on: May 06, 2014, 05:50:48 PM »
How long has it been, Trevor? You've been doing such a great job, but never talk about yourself.

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2192 on: May 06, 2014, 05:58:12 PM »
EMMA posted this last November.

This discussion began on Nov. 1, 2001. We have completed twelve years of discussion on the Story of Civilization. My gratitude to Robby for creating this discussion and leading it for several years. Then the loss of the website Senior net, we found a new forum here at Senior Learn. Thanks to Trevor for leading the discussion forward. He (Trevor) has been here from the beginning and for that I am grateful.

I am grateful for Joan, Jean, and Brian and all others who have posted in this forum.

Emma 

3kings(Trevor)

  • Posts: 347
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2193 on: May 09, 2014, 12:02:39 AM »
Years ago, when we were called S'Net, Robby had guided us through a book about the US. I forget its title. He proposed starting Durant's S o C.  I felt then that it was a task which we with our gathering old age, would never finish. I still hold to that view. But Robby pressed on until he became too busy to carry on. This was some years after the old S'Net lost. After some discussion it was agreed that I would try and take his place in this venture, an attempt  that has fallen far short of his excellent work. If you can put up with my efforts I'll try and keep on, but I must admit that at 86 years I'm finding it difficult. Others at my age find such matters no problem, but  I regret I am not so capable. Still, bear with me, and I'll keep trying.     Trevor.  ( If anyone is interested my name is Patrick Trevor Schwieters, I usually answer to Pat, but in these pages I came to be Trevor.)

3kings(Trevor)

  • Posts: 347
Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2194 on: May 10, 2014, 01:31:28 AM »
DURANTS'  S  o  C
Vol. VI  THE REFORMATION
Pgs. 536 -  538



                                HENRY VIII and CARDINAL WOLSEY

In 1509, six weeks after his accession, the marriage of Henry and Catherine was publicly celebrated. Seven months later ( Jan 31, 1510) Catherine bore her first child, which died at birth. A year later she bore a son; Henry rejoiced in a male heir who would continue the Tudor line; but in a few weeks the infant died. A second and third son succumbed soon after birth (1513, 1514 ). Henry began to think of a divorce -- or more precisely, an annulment of his marriage as invalid. Poor Catherine tried again, and in 1516 she gave birth to the future Queen Mary. In 1518 Catherine was delivered of another  still born child. The disappointment of the king and country was sharpened by the fact that Mary, aged two, had already been betrothed to the dauphin of France; if no son came to Henry, Mary would inherit the English throne, and her husband, becoming the King of France, would in effect be King of England too, making Britain a province of France. The dukes of Norfolk, Suffolk, and Buckingham had hopes of displacing Mary and securing the crown; Buckingham talked too much, was accused of treason, and was beheaded (1521 ). Henry expressed fear that his sonlessness was a divine punishment for having used a papal dispensation from a Biblical command. He took a vow that if the Queen would bare him a son he would lead a crusade against the Turks; but Catherine had no further pregnancies. By 1525 all hope of additional offspring by her was abandoned.

Henry had long since lost taste for her as a woman. He was now thirty-four, in the prime of lusty  manhood; she was forty, and looked older than her years. She had never been alluring, but her frequent illnesses and misfortunes had deformed her body and darkened her spirit. She excelled in culture and refinement, but husbands have seldom found erudition charming in a wife. She was a good and faithful spouse, loving her husband only next to Spain. She thought of herself as -- for a time she was -- Spanish envoy, and she argued that England should always side with Ferdinand or Charles. About 1518 Henry took his first-known post-marriage mistress, Elizabeth Blount, sister of Erasmus’ friend Mountjoy. She gave him a son in 1519; Henry made the boy Duke of Richmond and Somerset, and thought of entailing the succession to him. About 1524 he took another mistress, Mary Boleyn; indeed, Sir George Throckmorton accused him to his face of adultery with  Mary’s mother, too. It was an unwritten law of the times that royalty, if married for reasons of state rather than choice, might seek outside of marriage the romance that had missed the legal bed. In or before 1527 Henry turned his charm upon Mary’s sister Anne. Their father was Sir Thomas Boleyn, a merchant and diplomat long favoured by the King; their mother was a Howard, daughter of the Duke of Norfolk. Anne was sent to Paris as a finishing school; there she was made a lady in waiting to Queen Claude, then to Marguerite of Navarre, from whom she may have imbibed some Protestant leanings. Henry could have seen her as a vivacious girl of thirteen at the Field of the Cloth of Gold. Returning to England as a vivacious girl of thirteen ( 1522) she became lady in waiting to Queen Catherine. We do not know when Henry began to court her; the earliest of his extant love letters to her is conjecturally assigned to July 1527.

Wolsey was apparently unaware of any royal intention to marry Anne when, in July 1527 he went to France partly to arrange a union between Henry and Renée, that daughter of Louis XII who was soon to make a Protestant stir in Italy. The first known reference to Henry’s intention is in a letter sent on August 6 16,1527, by the Spanish Ambassador informing Charles V of a general belief that if the King obtained a “divorce” he would marry “ a daughter of Sir Thomas Boleyn”; this could hardly have meant Mary Boleyn, for by the end of 1527 Henry and Anne were living in neighbouring apartments under the same roof in Greenwich. We may conclude that Henry’s suit for annulment was accelerated though hardly caused by his infatuation with Anne. The basic cause was his desire for a son, to whom he might transmit the throne with some confidence in a peaceful succession. Practically all England shared that hope. The people remembered with horror the many years (1454-1485) of the war between the houses of York and Lancaster for the crown. The Tudor dynasty was but forty-two years old in 1527; its title to the throne was dubious; only a legitimate and direct male heir to the King could continue the dynasty unchallenged. If Henry had never met Ane Boleyn he would still have desired and deserved a divorce and an adequately fertile wife.

Wolsey agreed with the King on this point, and assured him that a papal annulment could be readily obtained; the Papal power to grant such separations was generally accepted as a wise provision for precisely such  national needs, and many precedents could be adduced. But the busy Cardinal had reckoned without two disagreeable developments; Henry wanted not Renée but Anne, and the annulment would have to come from a pope who, when the problem reached him, was the prisoner of an emperor who had plentiful cause for hostility to Henry. Probably Charles would have opposed the annulment as long as his aunt resisted it, and all the more if a new marriage such as Wolsey planned would ally England firmly with France. The proximate cause of the English Reformation was not the climbing beauty of Anne Boleyn but the obstinate refusal of Catherine and Charles to see the justice of Henry’s desire for a son; The Catholic Queen and the Catholic Emperor collaborated with the captive Pope to divorce England from the Church. But the ultimate cause of the English Reformation was not Henry’s suit for annulment so much as the rise of the English monarchy to such strength that it could repudiate the authority of the pope over English affairs and revenues.

Henry affirmed that his active desire for an annulment was occasioned by Gabriel de Grammont, who came to England in February 1527, to discuss the proposed marriage of Princess Mary with French royalty. Grammont, according to Henry, raised a question as to Mary’s legitimacy, on the ground that Henry’s marriage with Catherine might have been invalid as violating a Scriptural ban irremovable by a pope. Some have thought that Henry invented the story, but Wolsey repeated it, it was reported to the French Government( 1528), it was not ( so far as is known ) denied by Grammont, and Grammont laboured to persuade Clement that Henry’s suit for annulment was just. Charles informed his ambassador in England ( July 29,1527) that he was advising Clement to deny Henry’s plea.
 

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2195 on: May 12, 2014, 06:39:48 PM »
 "But the ultimate cause of the English Reformation was not Henry’s suit for annulment so much as the rise of the English monarchy to such strength that it could repudiate the authority of the pope over English affairs and revenues"

That's interesting. Do you agree: even if the pope had granted the annulment, would henry have found another reason to break his power?

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2196 on: May 13, 2014, 10:43:11 PM »
Yes, I agree.  Even if the pope had agreed to the annulment, he would have found something else to take England away from Catholic domination. Why?  Because he had the power and position in society to do so. The "Henrys" of this world never miss a chance to enlarge their self importance. Even if it means killing their own wives

3kings(Trevor)

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2197 on: May 13, 2014, 11:51:51 PM »
Durants'  S  o  C
Vol. VI  THE REFORMATION
Pgs.539 - 541




                         Henry VIII  and  Cardinal Wolsey

While he was in France Wolsey was definitely informed that Henry wished to marry not Renée but Anne. He continued to work for the annulment, but did not hide his chagrin over Henry’s choice. By-passing his Chancellor, the King, in the fall of 1527, sent his secretary, William Knight, to present two requests to the captive Pope. The first was that Clement, recognising the doubtful validity of Henry's marriage, its lack of mail issue, and Catherine’s unwillingness to be divorced, should allow Henry to have two wives. A last minute order from Henry deterred Knight from presenting this proposal; Henry’s audacity had abated; and he must have marvelled when, three years later, he received from Giovanni Casale, one of his agents in Rome, a letter dated September 18 1530, saying, “A few days ago the Pope secretly proposed to me that your Majesty might be allowed two wives.” Henry’s second request was quite as strange: that the Pope should grant him a dispensation to marry a woman with whose sister the King had had sexual relations. The Pope agreed to this on condition that the marriage with Catherine should be annulled; but as to this annulment he was not yet ready to decide. Clement was not only fearful of Charles; he was reluctant to rule that a previous pope had made a serious error in validating the marriage. At the end of 1537 he received a third request -- that he should appoint Wolsey and another papal legate to sit as a court in England, to hear evidence, and to pass judgment on the validity of Henry’s marriage to Catherine. Clement complied (April 13, 1528), named Cardinal Campeggio to sit with Wolsey in London, and promised -- in a bull to be shown only to Wolsey and Henry -- to confirm whatever decision the legates should render. Probably the fact that Henry had joined Francis (Jan. 1528) in declaring war on Charles, and pledging themselves to liberate the Pope, affected Clement’s  compliance.

Charles protested, and sent to Clement a copy of a document which he claimed to have found in the Spanish archives, and in which Julius II confirmed as valid the dispensation that Henry and Wolsey proposed to void. At his wits’ end the Pope, still a prisoner of Charles , rushed instructions to Campeggio “not to pronounce sentence without express commission hence . . . . if so great an injury be done to the Emperor, all hope is lost of universal peace, and the Church can not escape utter ruin, as is entirely in the power of the Emperor’s servants . . . Delay as much as possible.

On  Campeggio’s arrival in England (October 1528) he tried to secure Catherine’s consent to retire to a nunnery. She agreed, on condition that Henry should take monastic vows. But nothing could be further from Henry's mind than poverty, obedience, and Chastity; however, he suggested that he would take these vows if the Pope would promise to release him from them on demand. Campeggio refused to transmit this proposal to the Pope. Instead he reported (February 1529 ) the King’s determination to marry Anne. “It moves me to pity to see how the King’s life, the stability and downfall of the whole country hang upon this one question.”

Changes in the military situation turned the Pope more and more against Henry's proposal. The French army that Henry had helped to finance failed in its Italian campaign, leaving the Pope completely dependent upon the Emperor. Florence expelled its ruling Medici -- and Clement was as devoted to that family as Charles to the Hapsburgs. Who could now rescue the papacy except its captor? “ I have quite made up my mind,” said Clement (June 1529). to become an Imperialist, and to live and die as such.” On June 29 he signed the Treaty of Barcelona, by which Charles promise to restore Florence to the Medici, Ravenna to the papacy, and liberty to Clement; but one condition was that Clement would never agree to the annulment of Catherine's marriage without Catherine’s free consent. On August 5th Francis I signed the treaty of Cambrai, which in effect surrendered Italy and the Pope to the Emperor.

On May 31 Campeggio, opened with Wolsey the legatine court to hear Henry's suit. Catherine, having appealed to Rome, refused to acknowledge the competence of the court. On June 21, however, both King and Queen attended. Catherine threw herself on her knees before him. She reminded him of their many labours, her compete fidelity, her patience with his extramural sports; she took God to witness that she had been a maid when Henry married her; and she asked, in what had she offended him? Henry raised her up, and assured her that he wished nothing so earnestly as that their marriage had been successful; he explained that his reasons for separation were not personal but dynastic and national, and he rejected her appeal to Rome on the ground that the Emperor controlled the Pope. She withdrew in tears, and refuse to take further part in the proceedings. Bishop  Fisher spoke in her defence, thereby earning the enmity of the King. Henry demanded a clear decision from the court. Campeggio procrastinated skilfully, and finally ( July 23, 1529) adjourned the court for the summer vacation. To make indecision more decisive Clement “revoked” the case to Rome.

Henry raged. Feeling that Catherine had been unreasonably obstinate, he refused to have anything more to do with her, and spent his leisure hours with Anne. She, wise in the ways of men and kings, had apparently given him as yet only encouragement and titillation; now she complained that her youth was passing, while cardinals, who could not understand the desire of a maid for a well-to-do man, dallied over Henry’s right to adorn desire with a marriage tie. She blamed Wolsey for not pressing Henry’s appeal with more resolution; the king shared her resentment.

Wolsey had done his best, though his heart was not in the matter. He had sent money to Rome to bribe the cardinals, but Charles had sent money too, and an army to boot. The cardinal had even connived at the idea of bigamy, as Luther would a few years afterward. Yet Wolsey knew Anne and her relatives were maneuvering for his fall. Her hostility grew as the annulment issue dragged on. He foresaw that if the annulment should be granted Anne would be queen and would ruin him; and if it were not granted Henry would dismiss him as a failure, and he would demand an account of his stewardship, in painful financial detail.  

JoanK

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Re: Story of Civilization ~ Will & Ariel Durant
« Reply #2198 on: May 14, 2014, 04:21:44 PM »
WOW! I had no idea of all this maneuvering! I wonder how much of it the public knew. And in general, what they thought of all of this. (Not that Henry cared).

bluebird24

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