Author Topic: Non-Fiction (Read 439649 times)

Babi · « **Reply #1120 on:** July 20, 2010, 08:25:39 AM »

TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK

What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?

Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.

Let's talk books!

Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JOANK, that is really neat! I hadn't heard of Elizabeth Freeman before
and I loved reading that. It occurs to me she must have chosen her surname.....what more appropriate than 'Freeman'!

marjifay · « **Reply #1121 on:** July 20, 2010, 01:47:35 PM »

There is an interesting article in today's online NY Times' Book Section which those of you who have read Greg Mortenson's book, Three Cups of Tea, might be interested in reading. Here is a part of the article:

“Will move through this and if I’m not involved in the years ahead, will take tremendous comfort in knowing people like you are helping Afghans build a future,” General McChrystal wrote to Mr. Mortenson in an e-mail message, as he traveled from Kabul to Washington. The note landed in Mr. Mortenson’s inbox shortly after 1 a.m. Eastern time on June 23. Nine hours later, the general walked into the Oval Office to be fired by President Obama.

The e-mail message was in response to a note of support from Mr. Mortenson. It reflected his broad and deepening relationship with the United States military, whose leaders have increasingly turned to Mr. Mortenson, once a shaggy mountaineer, to help translate the theory of counterinsurgency into tribal realities on the ground.

In the past year, Mr. Mortenson and his Central Asia Institute, responsible for the construction of more than 130 schools in Afghanistan and Pakistan, mostly for girls, have set up some three dozen meetings between General McChrystal or his senior staff members and village elders across Afghanistan.

The collaboration, which grew in part out of the popularity of “Three Cups of Tea” among military wives who told their husbands to read it, extends to the office of Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Last summer, Admiral Mullen attended the opening of one of Mr. Mortenson’s schools in Pushghar, a remote village in Afghanistan’s Hindu Kush mountains.

Mr. Mortenson — who for a time lived out of his car in Berkeley, Calif. — has also spoken at dozens of military bases, seen his book go on required reading lists for senior American military commanders and had lunch with Gen. David H. Petraeus, General McChrystal’s replacement. On Friday he was in Tampa to meet with Adm. Eric T. Olson, the officer in charge of the United States Special Operations Command.

Mr. Mortenson, 52, thinks there is no military solution in Afghanistan — he says the education of girls is the real long-term fix — so he has been startled by the Defense Department’s embrace."

Marj

marjifay · « **Reply #1122 on:** July 20, 2010, 02:40:15 PM »

I forgot to say the name of the above article in the NY Times book section. It's "Unlikely Tutor Giving Military Afghan Advice" by Elizabeth Bumiller.

Marj

Frybabe · « **Reply #1123 on:** July 20, 2010, 06:50:19 PM »

Wonderful! Bravo! It is so heartening to hear that Mr. Mortenson has gained such an audience.

marjifay · « **Reply #1124 on:** July 20, 2010, 08:22:29 PM »

Yes, Frybabe, it is heartening. And good for the military wives for pushing their husband's to read the book. (I guess I will have to read it now, not that I have any influence with them (LOL).

Marj

JoanK · « **Reply #1125 on:** July 20, 2010, 10:13:35 PM »

MARJ: it's well worth reading, influence or no.

Babi · « **Reply #1126 on:** July 21, 2010, 08:51:28 AM »

Indeed, and Mr. Mortenson's influence continues to spread. A children's version of "Three Cups
of Tea" is now available; I saw a copy in my own library. Catch them while they're young!

mabel1015j · « **Reply #1127 on:** July 21, 2010, 01:54:48 PM »

http://forum-network.org/series/summer-reading-series

This is one of the sites on forum-network.org that offers live and on-demand lectures and readings by some of the world's foremost scholars, authors, artists, policy makers and comunity leaders sourced from public tv and radio stations. Vidoes can be selected by individual lectures or series. The "summer reading series" is about adozen authors, many of them non-fiction, but not all, talking about their works. .................jean

Frybabe · « **Reply #1128 on:** July 21, 2010, 04:05:55 PM »

Thanks for the link, Jean. I've bookmarked it. A long while back I used to read lectures from something called Fathom. You've encouraged me to look it up again - and here it is.
For Agatha Christie fans there is a free lecture titled "Agatha Christie and Archaeology" in there.

http://www.fathom.com/products/course_directory.html

mabel1015j · « **Reply #1129 on:** July 21, 2010, 06:15:25 PM »

Thank you for that link, i've put it in my favorites and have sent it on to friends. I think i've got a couple of years of viewing now from all those sites...........

.............but this is what i was excited about when i first heard them talk about the "web." That we would be able to access all knowledge from everywhere!! and now it's happening!..............love it! .............jean

marjifay · « **Reply #1130 on:** July 21, 2010, 11:46:01 PM »

Thanks Jean and Frybabe. I've bookmarked both of them. Sound very interesting.

Marj

JoanP · « **Reply #1131 on:** July 23, 2010, 07:26:50 PM »

Sorry to interrupt, but I need to make sure everyone sees this -

We've just now opened the vote for fall book discussions. You can vote for your top choice in Part I of the poll and then in Part II click on ALL of those you would be interested in discussing at some time. Some great choices - note that there are reviews linked to the book titles in the header in the Suggestion Box if you are not familiar with some of them.

Are you ready? -
Click Here to Cast your Vote! -

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #1132 on:** July 28, 2010, 06:06:12 PM »

Alan Brinkley, son of David (remember him?), was on Book TV one weekend and I reserved his book THE PUBLISHER: Heny Luce and his American Century. I'm afraid his TIME magazine has seen its best decades and will soon be extinct, but it was a good magazine, along with his other publications FORTUNE and LIFE.

A very good book.

marjifay · « **Reply #1133 on:** July 28, 2010, 09:28:01 PM »

Glad to hear you liked the book about Henry Luce, Ella. I also heard about it on BookTV and want to read it.
Sounds so interesting and talks about Wendell Wilkie, Chiang Kai--Shek, Whitaker Chambers and others, people I
recall hearing about (I had a Wendell Wilkie button as a kid), but whom few younger people today know about.

Marj

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #1134 on:** August 06, 2010, 09:05:58 AM »

I jotted a note to myself that I have near my computer to look at a book by Sam Tannehaus - a biography of Whittaker Chambers, which must have been commented on in the LUCE book.

For some reason, I have never forgotten Chambers own book; I believe the name of it was WITNESS. I must look it up. Perhaps because of the pumpkin papers? What a clever place to hide secrets, who would ever think of looking in a pumpkin patch.

Babi · « **Reply #1135 on:** August 07, 2010, 08:28:00 AM »

I believe it was "Witness", ELLA. I remember it made quite an impression on me.
I'm greatly enjoying slowly reading and savoring "Readings From The Classical Historians".
The earliest ones were far from what we would consider a reliable historian today, but they
were the first to even attempt to document the events of their times. The only cues they had to the past were the word of mouth stories, myths and legends.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #1136 on:** August 07, 2010, 11:14:48 AM »

That does look interesting, BABI. Yes, someone had to start the process of recording history. What year about did it all start? B.C. what?? The Greeks? Before then?

Somewhere I read that it is no longer appropriate to use B.C. as it denotes "Christ" and two of our three great religions do not believe in such a one. Strange, then, how that became a tool of historians. Does the book talk about that?

I have a World History book here that describes the Paleolithic Era which lasted over a million years, down to 12,000-10,000 B.C. in which no more than half a million humans were alive at any one time. It was during this era that language developed so there must be a fragment of history from this era?

Frybabe · « **Reply #1137 on:** August 07, 2010, 01:35:10 PM »

Babi, what I liked about Livy when I read his history was that he would comment from time to time that he had no direct knowledge of whether or not an account was accurate. He relied on oral traditions and once or twice told more than one version of an event because he had no reliable way of telling which was closer to the truth.

Ella, Herodotus (484 – c. 420 BC) and Thucydides (460 – c. 400 BC) were both considered the Fathers of History because they were the first to systematically collect and test materials for accuracy.

While Herodotus is considered the father of Western culture, Thucydides is considered the father of scientific history. Thucydides used strict evidence gathering and analysis to find cause and effect. He was interested in group behavior, studying the relations between nations and how people reacted to crisis situations such as the plague and war.

Gumtree · « **Reply #1138 on:** August 07, 2010, 01:44:40 PM »

Beautifully put Frybabe

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #1139 on:** August 07, 2010, 01:51:11 PM »

Exactly what I love about this site, the books, the readers who comment, the knowledge. Thanks FRYBABE AND GUMTREE.

Frybabe · « **Reply #1140 on:** August 07, 2010, 01:53:27 PM »

Thanks Gum,Ella. I believe Thucydides is still read in military schools. I don't know if it is required reading, but it is apparently still useful today. How about that. Wonder what he would say to that.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #1141 on:** August 07, 2010, 02:08:15 PM »

Think it might wake him up from the dead, Frybabe!

I turned on BookTV and listened to the last half of what was a very good panel program of historians and their newest books - Hampton Sides, James Donovan and Jeff Guinn.

I've never read any of their books, but will look them up in the library.

Then on came Lynne Olson, author of our book discussion - TROUBLESOME YOUNG MEN. She's talking about her new book CITIZENS OF LONDON. I'll wait a few months to read that one, but after throoughly discussing the period of WWII and America's involvement (well, maybe not thoroughly as that book was just about the young parliamentarians of London) I need a rest from war.

JoanP · « **Reply #1142 on:** August 07, 2010, 04:55:01 PM »

The Results are just in - you all have selected quite an interesting group of THREE for the Fall line-up:

ZEITOUN (Eggers)- An American epic. Fifty years from now, when people want to know what happened to the once great city of New Orleans during a shameful episode of our history, they will still be talking about a family named Zeitoun
We will read and discuss David Egger's Zeitoun in September with Ella and JoanK. This is a true story, but as gripping as Fiction. Just opened today - Zeitoun . Please drop in now and let them know whether you will be part of the discussion.

LEFT HAND OF DARKNESS (Le Guin) - Story of a lone human emissary's mission to an alien world. Groundbreaking science fiction hat leaves you thinking about gender issues, "nature vs nurture," nationalism and more. Proposed for October

EXCELLENT WOMEN (Pym) - High comedy about a never-married woman in her 30s, which in 1950s England makes her a nearly confirmed spinster.Often compared to Jane Austen Proposed for November

.

Babi · « **Reply #1143 on:** August 08, 2010, 08:35:07 AM »

Yes, ELLA, the earliest 'historians' were Greeks. People were talking long before they developed writing, and it was much longer before anyone thought it might be a good idea to write down what was happening for the instruction of future generations.
I believe the 'correct' designation now is B.C.E., meaning 'before the common era'. I don't think the other two great religions you refer to 'do not believe in such a one'; they simply don't consider him divine.

FRYBABE,Thucydides also explained in his history that he could not repeat a speech verbatim (no shorthand back then), so he would write it in his own words as closely to the original intent as he could. I was reading his report of a speech by a Corinthian about the Athenians and had to grin. They sounded a lot like today's modern America workaholic.
Actually, there were two earlier 'historians'. Hecateus might be considered the 'grandfather' of history, and Hellanicus is described as more of a chronicler. Little of their works remain, and they did not, as you mention, test their information for accuracy or analyze for cause and effect. The human interest element was definitely there, though.

Frybabe · « **Reply #1144 on:** August 08, 2010, 09:03:53 AM »

Babi, thanks for the update. I knew there had to be others, but I rarely see any mention of earlier Greek histories than Herodotus.

Gumtree · « **Reply #1145 on:** August 08, 2010, 12:26:20 PM »

There were plenty of early Greek historians but most of their work is only known from fragments or where it is mentioned in other works - Heracleides of Cyme was one such historian whose fragments were recorded by Athenaeus. Fragments of Antiochus of Syracuse's History of Sicily date from 5th Century BC. And then there's Xenophon who was a friend of Socrates.... but of course Thucydides and Herodutus reign supreme.

JoanK · « **Reply #1146 on:** August 08, 2010, 06:00:45 PM »

"Thucydides and Herodutus reign supreme."

I have a friend who claims that you haven't read history until you've read Herodutus. Do you agree?

roshanarose · « **Reply #1147 on:** August 08, 2010, 11:34:15 PM »

Thucydides and Herodotus are so completely different in their method of relating history. Thucydides, although technically more acceptable to scholars, is quite dry compared to Herodotus. "The Peloponnesian War" is not a book to be read for pleasure. I remember groaning in Ancient History classes when the time came to study it. Herodotus, conversely, is great fun to read. Although academics compare Herodotus unfavourably to Thucydides, I love him. He is a great storyteller. It could have something to do with the fact that Thucydides concentrated on just one place/episode in history, whereas Herodotus takes us too so many different places, peoples and cultures, right down to customs. The academics also say that Herodotus "The Histories" doesn't handle the truth so well. But, hey, who cares! He is such a great read.

While on the topic in the 70s feminists were unhappy that history was written as "his- story"and railed at the fact that men had chosen this chauvinist title which indicated that only men were a part of history. In Greek (ancient and modern) the word is istoria
with an unaspirated "h". Nothing to do with men, as the Greek word for "his" is "tou" pronounced as "too".

Even if you just dip into Herodotus he is very entertaining. On the other hand, I doubt if I could read "The Pelopponesian War" again except for academic reference.

Babi · « **Reply #1148 on:** August 09, 2010, 09:28:52 AM »

It seemed to me, from the fragments I read, that Herodotus sounded more like gossip than factual history. Which, of course, is what made
it more entertaining.
The book I'm reading consists of 'selected' readings from the classical
historians, ROSE, which I am assuming means I'll be getting the best parts and not the 'dry' parts.

roshanarose · « **Reply #1149 on:** August 09, 2010, 10:07:17 PM »

Babi - Please remind me of the title of the book you are reading.

I think, although I am an Hellenophile to my chin whiskers, that my favourite historian is Suetonius. His "The Twelve Caesars" is a masterpiece imho. Babi is he in your book?

Yes. Herodotus is a great gossip, who wouldn't be with such topics? Suetonius is gossipy too, who wouldn't be with all those naughty Julio-Claudians?

From Wiki re "The Twelve Caesars "The work tells the tale of each Caesar's life according to a set formula: the descriptions of appearance, omens, family history, quotes, and then a history are given in a consistent order for each Caesar." Good stuff!

Babi · « **Reply #1150 on:** August 10, 2010, 08:39:38 AM »

The book is "Readings in The Classical Historians", ROSE, by Michael Grant. The book
was recommended by a poster here in SeniorNet, but I've forgotten who. Whoever it was,
take a bow, please.
I checked the index, and Suetonius will be awaiting me when I get to the 2nd centuryAD
historians.

Frybabe · « **Reply #1151 on:** August 10, 2010, 09:23:28 AM »

Taking a bow!

CallieOK · « **Reply #1152 on:** August 10, 2010, 12:46:05 PM »

Thank you, Frybabe. I just brought "Readings In The Classical Historians" home from the library. Need to bake cookies this afternoon for two upcoming functions - but am looking forward to dipping into a subject I love (history) but have never read at this level (classical).

roshanarose · « **Reply #1153 on:** August 10, 2010, 11:29:12 PM »

@ Frybabe and babi.

Babi · « **Reply #1154 on:** August 11, 2010, 09:11:39 AM »

My posts continue to go into disarray sometimes. They are straight and even when I check them after posting, but when I come back in they are jumbled. I've seen the same thing happen to Marjifay's posts,
too. MARJ, I guess we need to put our heads together and figure out
what we have in common in our posting. What on earth could cause a
post to go haywire after it's posted?

JoanK · « **Reply #1155 on:** August 11, 2010, 03:28:32 PM »

A gremlin?

Babi · « **Reply #1156 on:** August 12, 2010, 08:38:50 AM »

Got any remedies for gremlins, JOAN? No harm, of course, ..it just
offends my sense of order and precision. Which is adjustable in any case.

JoanK · « **Reply #1157 on:** August 12, 2010, 03:09:05 PM »

Sorry, my anti-gremlin charms don't work in the new millenium.

marcie · « **Reply #1158 on:** August 12, 2010, 06:14:55 PM »

Babi, Are you pressing the return key at any time other than a paragraph break?

Babi · « **Reply #1159 on:** August 13, 2010, 05:40:45 PM »

I don't think so, MARCIE. What really throws me is that I can
go through my note and straighten all the lines before I post, see that
the post is in order after I post, move on to my next site, and
still may find my post in disorder the next time I come in.
I think a connection somewhere is hiccuping.

News:

Author Topic: Non-Fiction (Read 439649 times)