The Library

[BarbStAubrey]

Thanks frybabe - yes i remember how we discovered while reading Mobinogion the French influence and I guess if the stories were written in French then the logic is people in Britain and I guess also in Wales would be able to read French - I don't know a lot about the history of the Normans in England - I knew about William the Conqueror and i think there were a few others but I never read much about that time in English History - the closest would be the Cadfael chronicles but then that is a full century later - hmm need to look into not just the Norman conquest but life in England during the later part of the eleventh and the twelfth century. Although come to think on it I think Stephen and Matilda were Normans and they were warring during the time frame featured in the Cadfael chronicles.   

[BarbStAubrey]

Interesting  - found this and it seems that the Normans were actually Scandinavians who acclimated and adopted French language and loyalties therefore Normandy had a meaning and ID all of its own...

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-e&q=movie+william+the+conqueror#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:e2a86e0b,vid:8kBHUez2mKY,st:0

[Frybabe]

I keep forgetting that the Normans were not originally French. There were several Scandinavian migrations. Some of them headed east a bit and became known as the Burgundians. They first came down into Eastern Europe, stopped there for a while and then got pushed into and across France to where they eventually found a permanent home. The Burgundians brought with them the old Norse tales some of which were adopted by the Germanic Celts. If you have never read the epic poem The Nibelungenlied or seen Richard Wagner's opera sequence, Der Ring des Nibelungen, you are in for a treat. The Norse version is from the Völsunga Saga, I think. Great reading and fun to compare.

The language of the Britons is a Celtic dialect, not French, and is still used today even though Brittany is a part of France. The Welsh language is from the same language group.

[BarbStAubrey]

No longer remember the incidents but remember reading and watching several documentaries about the Scandinavians at first trading and then attempting to settle in Eastern Europe - did not know the Burundians were originally Scandinavian - the more I'm reading about the Celts the more of Europe is evolved - started a documentary just the other night that I have saved about the Druids that are Celts - looks like northern what is now Germany as well as a goodly portion of France was Celtic till they were finally only in Ireland and Wales - so much is romanticized about these past eras - looking at life for the average its amazing all that has been accomplished.   

[Frybabe]

The migrations and invasions in early Europe and Central Asia were almost constant, one group pushing another out so that the pushed out group migrated and pushed out or integrated with others. I ran across, somewhere on the net, that someone had put together a layered map of these movements over time by using transparent sheets. Wish I had such a reference. I especially could have used such a device when reading about the Eastern European area around and in what eventually became the Early Bulgarian Empire.

Regarding the Burgundian migration from Scandinavia, I found a brief history of the group. https://www.medievalchronicles.com/medieval-europe/medieval-france/who-were-the-burgundians/ I thought they ended up settling closer to the west coast, but I must have misremembered. I forgot I purchase The Burgundians: A Vanished Empire last October and promptly forgot I have it. Sigh!

[BarbStAubrey]

Great on your sharing the info on the Burgundian's - the documentary of the Scandinavians in Eastern Europe I'm remembering it was someplace like Estonia and they found an ancient site that was located within yards of an elementary school - vaguely I'm remembering the area had a name that no longer exists that was similar to Estonia - but up there where Latvia is located - looking at a map it would be logical the area was breached for trade - it is right across on the Baltic Sea and would have only taken them a day to cross over.

I remember the documentary showing people and their way of life based on all sorts of signs and witchcraft, killing each other for not following certain rituals - not a time I would have like to have been living... dark and foreboding... actually from what I've seen Scandinavians seemed less afraid with fewer cruelties to each other although they too had their share especially in Iceland. I'm almost wondering if rather then Roman influence most of Europe, I guess in the north and in the British Isles I'm thinking there was more Scandinavian influence and even more Scandinavian blood lines. The Romans left their mark but actually the areas they settled were not near as expansive as how much lwas settled by Scandinavians.

[ginny]

Oh I just saw this and it’s too marvelous not to mention. It’s what happened to all of the characters after  the death of Cromwell, presented by PBS and it shows the character in the movie and then it shows his portrait in real life and it’s marvelous!

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/specialfeatures/wolf-hall-mirror-and-the-light-what-happened-next


Here’s the first quote: “ Cromwell was my most faithful servant, and I repent sorely the loss of him,” he reportedly said—too late, of course. But execution had become his default measure, and so the axe kept falling. …..

[BarbStAubrey]

Thanks Ginny a wonderful site... it was the last that brought in another episode in English History that I will have to sort out - all this with civil war and Charles I

[ginny]

OH I know.

But the reason I found it was a new (to me) show called Mr. Bates vs the Post Office.  For some reason it had taped on one of the Cromwell episodes, and I thought it was a mystery and so watched one of them?

It's not a mystery. Have any of you heard of it? It's a 4 part series on "the greatest miscarriage of justice in British history." And while I think India was the greatest miscarriage, this one  is pretty hard to beat.

I had just finished struggling with the taxes, panicking over the sums that did not add up and this thing nearly knocked me down.

Apparently (I've only seen one episode of the four) the British Post Office sent computers to each post office, this is some years ago? I don't know how recent it is.  Anyway the amounts when added up came up short for no reason, which of course was sent to HQ as the Post Master owed? And they kept increasing.  Every time they touched the page it added the columns up again to a new total.  One lady had hers at 26,000 British Pounds which SHE owed? She owed that shortfall. They said what have you done with that money? They sent somber men in suits, they took them to court, they kept saying that nobody but you has had this problem, and it kept on and on.

And it's SO real. Because it WAS real.  And people's lives were ruined and people were incarcerated because the judges said nobody else has reported this problem, so where is the money?

 And then this one man stood up.   And that's as far as I got. It was up for no end of BAFTAS but I'm not sure it won. It did win some other things. Anybody who has ever struggled with a column of figures can identify with the first episode....it's SO real.

And it was a LOT of people being defrauded. I'm trying to find it on Amazon Prime or Neflix.

[BarbStAubrey]

Yes I did watch it last year sometime and it was a horror for those affected - one even committed suicide - I have so many negative opinions about how removed business is from humanity and how our trust in what we thought were support institutions can easily, with no conscious, affect people so that those those within any institution, from church, government, medical, you name it, will see lots of dollars and figure out a way to take some -

I remember watching because the actor, who played Mr. Bates, who moved to Wales and researched all this and got everyone together was an actor I had only recently seen in another series and who I like in the other series but the more I watched the more I was glued to the story and frankly it was me wondering how bad can this get and will the culprits be caught and be made to make restitution - but then I realized there is no making restitution after destroying people's lives and being the cause of suicide.

Looks like in the time spot where The Mirror... was aired on our local PBS is replaced with something to do with Jane Austin - not in the mood and then the French Revolution thing - maybe I'm just cranky but none of this appeals - I'd rather read.

Did finish the Britt-Marie story by Backman and yes, where the husband returned it was not the usual of her realizing how he ill treated her - she I think realized but so wrapped up in doing the 'right' thing that was appropriate for a women in her 50s as well as, the comfort of looking ordinary but then she has other options that were made possible and so the story is left with our guessing which of the 3 options she chose.

A good story on living with and accepting people for who they are realizing we each have our weak spots and our inconsiderate side that for some are in reaction to others spilling on us their inability to handle their life's difficulties, losses and disappointments.  However it would be easy with the philosophy represented to assume everyone was really good at heart but I'm seeing to much to accept that line of thinking - yes, there are some who act horribly because of personal pain but I see some who are so full of evil and greed and and and that they do not see how their thoughtless behavior and cruelty affects others, it is all about them and for some even beyond what we think of as human - maybe that is it, for some it is as if affecting others is a by product rather than a direct assault.

[BarbStAubrey]

Here I thought Kate Middleton was a commoner - but no... get this... "Kate Middleton is a descendant of Mary Boleyn, the older sister of Anne Boleyn, who was the second wife of Henry VIII. Kate's lineage can be traced through Mary Boleyn's daughter, Katherine Carey. Katherine Carey was the mother of Elizabeth Knollys, who is also considered to be the great-niece of Anne Boleyn and the great-granddaughter of Henry VIII, and therefore, an ancestor of Kate Middleton"

Evidently Queen Elizabeth II was also a decedent of the Boleyn's as was Diana 'Spencer' - can't find the link now where I read that bit of surprise.

[bellamarie]

Frybabe,

Remember Carol Goodman? We discussed one of her books. Was it The Night Villa.

Yes, I do remember Carol Goodman and the book was Night Villa.  If my memory serves me well, she also joined in with our discussion.  The story was intriguing and a bit scary. 

Barb, how exciting to hear about the relationship of Kate Middleton and the royals.  It doesn't surprise me because even though much like Diana she has a regalness about her, she also fits perfectly with as we refer to as commoners.  I just love her.

I've been a bit busy keeping up with my teenage granddaughter who made her Confirmation, and I chose me to be her sponsor, along with attending the May Crowning Ceremony yesterday at her school Notre Dame Academy.  She is my youngest and now is taller than me.  She was chosen to carry the Cross in the ceremony which was a proud moment for her, my son, dil, and me and her grandfather.  One last event her graduation from Junior High and I think we may be done with school events til August. 

Either my allergies have gone haywire, or I have gotten myself a nasty cold with a cough and irritated sore throat, so I have been trying to rest in between all the running.  I can't believe it will be Mother's Day this Sunday.  I wish you all a happy day!

[Frybabe]

Today I ran across this YouTube clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9dhdE3S2Cc It has a contender for that title, St. Catherine's located on the Sinai Peninsula.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi7VtbK0XSM There probably others.

[BarbStAubrey]

Two very different libraries in very different climates - as old as St. Catherine's may be they do not say what their oldest book holding is - they do talk about books written in ancient dead languages though.

[PatH]

I'm sorry to have to tell you that Joank, who has been fighting a combination of pneumonia and metastatic cancer, is now in hospice care. She is very comfortable, cheerful and accepting, surrounded by  children and grandchildren and various extended family, all pouring their expressions of love on her, but it's hard to watch.

[BarbStAubrey]

Thanks for update Pat - I'm going through the same thing with my last remaining cousin - she has been in hospice now for several weeks and over the weekend had what they call the rally that evidently is typical and happens close to the end. Jackie is now on morphine every 4 hours and has been sleeping most of yesterday and today - and yes, it is difficult but thank goodness Joan, as my cousin are from families who take care of and are there for those passing - almost like a family characteristic - Everyone involved is doing a great job as I am sure you and Joan's family are also doing a great job helping Joan through this phase of her life... She was a wonderful role model for me leading discussions and that spirit is a memory for the few of us that experienced those discussions. Pat you too are strong and your love from and to your sister will endure - praying God's blessings will comfort you knowing you have chosen to do God's work for Joan.

[PatH]

Thank you for all your kind comments, Barb and Ginny, and Frybabe and Bellamarie--all very much to the point, and very helpful.
It's happened now. JoanK passed away the day before yesterday.  It was just as she wanted. She had moved back home from the hospital, and though she was tired, she was happy and fairly aware.  She was never alone. The family, her Niece Suzi, Niece Cathy, daughter Jody, son Dan and his wife Carrie, son Andy, and caregiver Ely took turns, always one or more in the room.  Then Jody noticed Joan's nose was cold.  Joan had gone. 
This was just how Joan wanted it:at home, surrounded by love, and not in Pain.  she called the shots and passed on happily.

Incidentally, in one of her more talkative moments, I told her all your best wishes and kind remarks, and she loved that.

[ginny]

Oh dear. I am so sorry, Pat, my sympathy to you and her family in this great loss. It does sound as if she had everything one could want, at the end, and the freedom from pain and being surrounded by those who love you is such a  precious gift .

And she deserved that. So glad she knows how much she was missed here, too. That was kind of you to tell her.

Thank you for letting us know.

[Frybabe]

My thoughts and condolences are with you and the family, Pat. Good memories of her posting here and of your updates on how she was doing these last years since she stopped posting. 

[BarbStAubrey]

Oh Pat hoping the emptiness that you are feeling will be filled as family shares the funny and wonderful memories you shared with Joan - how absolutely great Joan's last days were in her own home surrounded by her loving family and without pain - now that is a comforting memory to hang onto while also remembering all the joy she brought to your life from way back when you were children all the way through both your lives - remembering some past posts you both shared such a rich life, full of books read written by the great authors - a rich history for a memory and I hope knowing how special as your mind wanders and  remembers helping you through this time of adjustment for you - Pat I am so sorry and you will be in my prayers.

[ginny]

Thinking of Pat, and JoanK and both families today.


I came in to say I finished  the 4th installment on PBS of Mr. Bates and the Post Office and it seems,  unbelievably , to be ongoing to this day, and it's been 20 years. Mr. Bates is still alive, and was made a Knight, he's Sir Alan, in last year's Honors List.

Also I was wrong, Mr. Bates and the PO did win "big" as they say at the  2025 British BAFTAS, (I was looking at the wrong year) something like three awards, and  many of the cast and , it appears,  Mr. Bates himself, appeared on the stage to accept the award. Here's a quote:

It’s a Mr Bates vs Baby Reindeer showdown at this year’s TV Baftas

"Baby Reindeer and Mr Bates vs the Post Office were the hot favourites coming into the 71st annual British Academy Television Awards, but in the event the former only managed one award, for supporting actress Jessica Gunning, and the latter one competitive award, beating Baby Reindeer in limited drama, plus a special award for commissioner ITV..."

The 4 part series having concluded, it appears that in real life they are doing a trial for each person accused? I hope not, there are now estimates of between 2,900 and 9,000 people wrongly accused. I think they found 235 or something like that who did actually embezzle...all that would have to be fact checked.

It also appears that the error was in the computers, and the computer company was trying to cover it up. A character asked what happened to those shortfalls, who got the money and it was said if I understood it that the Post Office itself received it as profit. The culpability of those  directly running the PO has not been addressed as they all claim to know nothing about it.

Just an amazing story with a real hero for our time. Outstanding.

[BarbStAubrey]

Yes, I think anyone who watched the series has their opinion on who were the culprits and who to blame however, to me it is beyond blame - the lives destroyed should be the focus and yes, I am sure if the culprit is not identified it simply leaves a wrong hanging that can easily be repeated however, I've noticed the victims in so many wrongs are shoved aside - I'm thinking the emotional toil of even reporting the stories of the victims does not win a larger audience as does a story that shows subterfuge, greed, secret behavior, an on the edge of your seat waiting for a comeuppance.

Read Colm Túibín's  Long Island - Had not read his Brooklyn and Long Island appears to be a 'what happened after I think it was 20 years... Well written but not a fan of the story - Main character Ellie wants everything about her reputation and life to be above board trying to not hurt or interrupt the life of others so that she misses half of life. Also, the way between all of them left me wanting to scrub it off - and yet, her position was familiar - when others in a family have committed selfish and shocking behavior that is painful and you have little room to act on your own moral sense, without what you see as hurting those whom you love, without realizing standing up for yourself is an act of love you end up creating a story that oozes out as Colm Túibín captured. However, he does include another female character, Nancy who takes life by the horns regardless of propriety or the feelings of those involved but from the way it is written I could not relate to her and then mothers who epitomize this secretive, manipulative way of life hmm - As much as the story bothered me it still rattles around so that I'm having a difficult time getting into another book. Cannot seem to bring a period so to speak about the message - everything is up in the air and maybe that is it - the message is simply life is life and there is no protecting others by the way you act. hmm maybe that is what he is showing which is a typical response by women towards their children to the point that it slips out as a life choice regardless how appropriate. - Yep still struggling to find my period...